00:16From a revered hero to one of the biggest cheats in sporting history.
00:23When Lance Armstrong was stripped of his seven Tour de France titles because of doping,
00:27it was an epic fall from grace.
00:32Now the story of his cycling reign and shame has been made into a crime thriller by Stephen Frears
00:38with the villain played by Ben Foster.
00:41I caught up with him in Paris.
00:44I just love to ride my bike.
00:47No longer confined to earth, now we have learned to fly.
00:53Stephen Frears, hello.
00:54Hello.
00:55The film remains quite mysterious still about the person, Lance Armstrong.
01:01Well, he is complicated, isn't he?
01:03Because he won't come clean about himself.
01:05He hasn't really acknowledged his crimes fully.
01:09So he conceals himself because he doesn't want you to see the truth.
01:14And so that was sort of a conscious decision then to kind of not go into his personal life?
01:19No, but now when you say it, I think that's what must have been going on.
01:21I've never tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs.
01:24I've never tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs.
01:33Hmm?
01:34Do you think he was totally bad or he is totally bad?
01:36Bad?
01:37What does that mean?
01:38Like a bad guy, like a cartoon?
01:41You tell me, what do you think of him?
01:42What was your version of Lance Armstrong then, after studying him so much?
01:46My version of him is the way that I'd view anybody, which is, it's really complicated being a human being.
01:52Like, I'm not just an actor.
01:54You're not just a journalist.
01:55He's not just a cameraman.
01:57We're complicated people.
02:00And unfortunately, people like to say good or bad, because it's easy to be like, good guy, bad guy.
02:06But he's not.
02:07He's a guy that raised $500 million for cancer research.
02:10He's a guy that faced death and used his power to do good.
02:19But he had to protect that good by destroying people's lives.
02:22I mean, that's complicated stuff.
02:26I don't think anybody's, um, I guess that's why I like my job.
02:29I imagine you like your job, as we're like, why?
02:32So how hard is it, though, to play a character that most people hate?
02:37Well, um, I can't really think in those terms.
02:43I mean, that's the first thing.
02:45It's like, wow, he's, he's, he's, he's disliked by a lot of people.
02:48But he also has a lot of supporters.
02:50The game then becomes, how can I rationalize it?
02:54Uh, and that's really exciting to do.
02:57That's really exciting to spend time to say, like, how do you ruin people's lives?
03:02And then what does it feel like to actually make a difference in, in thousands of people's lives?
03:08I've been touched by cancer.
03:09I mean, my family has.
03:10I've lost family members.
03:13When you see it up close, and so many of us have, I don't think that was bullshit.
03:19I think he, I think he really, uh, wanted to do good.
03:23And no one's raised that kind of money.
03:29It's so complicated.
03:31Uh, Dr. Ferrari made a statement about EPO.
03:34Do you remember that?
03:36No.
03:36He's about to be tried for criminal conspiracy.
03:43I think the judges and the prosecutors should pursue everybody, no matter who they are, because that's their job.
03:53And the Lance Armstrong, um, scandal was massive, and so many people were involved.
03:58Yeah.
03:58In making this film, how free did you feel?
04:01How free were you?
04:02I was as free, I was completely free, except every now and then my lawyers, the lawyers on our side,
04:08would say, look, you can't do that because of this and this and this.
04:10But it was very, wasn't very considerable.
04:13I mean, it's not an old story.
04:14Obviously, the main character is still alive.
04:17Yes.
04:17Were there things that you felt you had to leave out?
04:19No.
04:20Well, the UCI, which is the body that runs cycling in Europe, they've never lost a court case for some
04:27reason or other, so if you went near them, and I suspect you do need to go near them, our
04:33lawyers would get nervous.
04:35So what were the key parts of the story for you that you wanted to keep in?
04:38That he took drugs, and this is how he took drugs.
04:42And did you have a chance to talk to Lance Armstrong?
04:44No. Why would I want to talk to him?
04:46Why wouldn't you?
04:47Because he's a liar.
04:49I mean, that's given.
04:50One of the things he did was he told lies.
04:52Why would I want to talk to a liar?
04:54And I prefer anyway to use my imagination.
04:56He's a man transformed.
04:58He's recovered from cancer and turned into bloody Superman.
05:02What about playing someone who's still alive?
05:04How difficult is that?
05:06That was, uh, that's, that's, that's uncomfortable.
05:09It's uncomfortable playing someone who's still alive.
05:13And I reached out, he didn't want to talk with me.
05:15Um, and I don't blame him at all for not wanting to talk to some actor, being like, what's it
05:20like being you?
05:21You know, I'd want to punch a kid out who, who'd ask that.
05:25And, um, I fight back.
05:29So it's, it's, his life is still, his story's still happening.
05:35If he's cheating on the races, then he's cheating on us as well.
05:40I will not be brought down.
05:42Why was Ben Foster the right person to play Lance?
05:45Well, he's just very modernist and he's very American, sort of fanatical, obsessed.
05:52Crazy.
05:53He's wonderful.
05:54And he actually looks quite like him.
05:56Looks like him, yes.
05:56Was that important for you?
05:58Well, it didn't, it, it, it, it helped.
06:00If you'd had a fat actor, well, no, he did actually lose weight.
06:03But it, it, I mean, all you're trying to do is to make somebody believable.
06:07And I believed in him.
06:17So physically, how did you train?
06:19How did you get ready for the part?
06:21Uh, we had a very short amount of time.
06:24Uh, we didn't have a script when, when the job came in.
06:28Stephen said, keep yourself available.
06:30So I'm not good sitting around.
06:32So I, I made some arrangements and, and, and used a few friends to set me up with a team
06:37down in Colorado, uh, the tour of Colorado and embedded with a team and ended up talking
06:44my way onto the bus and then meet, meeting person after person, uh, started meeting people
06:49who had ridden with him and knew a lot about him.
06:52And then I started meeting his mechanic, his nutritionist.
06:55I found the guys who actually had his aerodynamics in a computer.
06:59So we were able to bring that.
07:00So once I was hired for the job, we had six weeks to actually learn, learn how to cycle,
07:05which was kind of a disaster at the beginning and then shaped my body to him.
07:10So it was as to the millimeter, his positioning on the bike is my position in the film.
07:14Go on then.
07:15Tell me why it was a disaster in the beginning.
07:18Well, imagine being 30 pounds overweight, riding at altitude, having never been in clipless
07:24shoes in front of the top team, Chris Froome walking by and I'm trying to, and they were laughing
07:34at me.
07:35They were like, this guy's going to be Lance Armstrong.
07:37They were like, oh God.
07:38And I started getting sick because of the altitude and I was so not fit at the time.
07:45Uh, I got stuck in my shoes, couldn't go any further, couldn't breathe,
07:49landed on the bars, which just makes you want to throw up.
07:52The bike crashes down and then I skidded down a hill on the bike, uh, in front of the top
07:59riders in the world.
08:00Um, so that was, that's how I started.
08:05Well, I bet they're not laughing now.
08:06You did it, didn't you?
08:07I haven't seen it yet.
08:08I'll wait.
08:08We'll see.
08:09And it was here in France that the light shined most brightly on Lance Armstrong because
08:13of the Tour de France, you know, you're promoting it here in Paris, what's that like?
08:18I'd be lying to say I wasn't apprehensive.
08:21The Tour de France belongs to France.
08:23The world has, uh, embraced it, but the Tour de France is, is France's.
08:29So to come portraying, I think in, not, I don't think it's a super friendly portrait,
08:37but it's at least somewhat compassionate towards him.
08:39It asks questions rather than damns him, bad or good, right?
08:44Uh, of the American that, in some people believe, stole it.
08:51Uh, yeah, I'm apprehensive about it because I also think like, well, he, he, he also won
08:57it in that era.
09:01He wins and wins and he celebrates.
09:03He meets the president.
09:04He gets more sponsors, more money, more fame.
09:07The man is a chief.
09:08And as a director, you're tricking us all the time.
09:12Permanently.
09:13I'm completely untrustworthy.
09:15But with the way that you make films, you have to, to make a good film.
09:18I mean, is there any way that you can identify with...
09:22Who's Lance?
09:22With Lance Armstrong?
09:23Do I think of myself as a, well, he was rather better at it than I am.
09:27No, but I understand that it's all to do with illusion.
09:31I mean, I don't know anyone else who's...
09:34as clever at being corrupt as he was.
09:38Acting is also a very competitive business.
09:41Hmm.
09:42Not always getting the role that you want.
09:43Have you ever cheated to get a role?
09:45Or can you see the motivation behind maybe having to do that?
09:51I don't know how you cheat to get a role, but I'm interested.
09:53If you have any tips, there are a few things that are floating around that I'd like to do.
09:58How about this?
09:59Um, I didn't get this job.
10:02I was 16, and there was a script called Requiem for a Dream.
10:06And I was going to meet Darren Aronofsky.
10:08And the role was playing somebody who was in his early 20s, and I looked like a baby.
10:13And I really wanted to do this.
10:16Jared's, the role Jared got.
10:18I was living in the valley at the time.
10:20I was new in California from Iowa, a small town.
10:24And I got the idea that I was going to change the way that I looked.
10:27So I went to the, uh, I went to the supermarket.
10:29I got black dyed, dyed my hair really dark.
10:32And I did my eyebrows, and I looked like Groucho.
10:35And I was like, you look like Groucho with, like, really, it's terrible.
10:38I look like child Groucho.
10:40So I, I, what hits me is that I've got to do something else to take away from the eyebrows.
10:45Because I can't get them off.
10:47They're so thick.
10:48I took a razor and cut into my eye right up here.
10:53You can still see a scar up there.
10:55Because I thought that I'd redirect his attention.
10:57So I cut and made myself bleed here and here.
11:01So in the meeting, I don't think I've, I've told him this.
11:05I just ran into Darren the other week.
11:07Um, I, I got to tell him this story.
11:09Uh, yeah, I came to him and, and he's like, wait, how are you doing?
11:11I said, well, you should see the other guy.
11:14You know, did a terrible read for him.
11:17Um, yeah, that's probably the dumbest thing I've done, to not get a job.
11:21He will attack anyone who steps out alive.
11:24I have the money and the power to destroy you.
11:28Your next project is a film starring Meryl Streep.
11:31Yes.
11:32It's about Florence Foster Jenkins, an opera singer in the 20s who couldn't sing.
11:37It's about the worst singer ever to sing at Carnegie Hall.
11:41And there's a French film, a new French film that's out called Marguerite, about, about
11:45the same character, but brought to France.
11:47Basically, if you're not making a film that three other people are making the same film
11:50about, you're in trouble.
11:51Why do you think there's such interest in her all of a sudden?
11:54Well, I can't tell you.
11:55I just simply read a script and said, this is wonderful.
11:57But I don't know what the, I, I, if you're saying there's something in the air, I don't
12:02know.
12:02I mean, I remember when I made, um, Liaison Dangereuse and, and, uh, Miloš Forman made
12:08Valmont, you know, that, there was this very successful play which drew everybody's attention
12:13to this great French novel.
12:15But I don't know why there are these two films.
12:18All right, Stephen Frears.
12:19All right, good luck.
12:19Thank you very much.
12:20Good luck.
12:21Inside each and every one of us is something more potent, more powerful than any drug.
12:25It's called The Will to Survive.
