00:00 The next issue is about Naib Tarameem and it's all connected.
00:04 Why is there no return?
00:05 The people don't like it.
00:06 The people are worried.
00:08 Overall, the people have been pissed off by the inflation.
00:12 The creditors had also returned.
00:14 Yes, they also returned.
00:15 They were on the case.
00:16 They left.
00:17 Yes, I mean...
00:18 Where are the creditors now?
00:19 The cases up to 49 crores, after Naib Tarameem,
00:22 the cases won't be made on him.
00:24 It wasn't 49 crores.
00:25 49 crores.
00:26 49 crores, 99 lakh, 99 thousand, 999.
00:29 Now, the corruption cases are open.
00:31 There are big names in them.
00:32 Obviously, there are names.
00:34 Now, there is a threat for them.
00:36 Like, the Mega Corruption Case,
00:37 it's the name of Nawaz Sharif,
00:38 it's the name of Asif Zardari,
00:40 Yusuf Raza Gilani,
00:41 Raja Aparvez Ashraf.
00:43 The Renter Power case is against them.
00:45 Similarly, the fake bank account case,
00:47 Asif Ali Zardari,
00:48 Shahid Haqan Abbasi's LNG case has also been filed.
00:51 Murad Ali Shah,
00:52 Ishaq Dar,
00:53 there are many cases against them.
00:55 Let's talk about the former prosecutor, Raja Amir Abbas,
01:00 who is the prosecutor general of NAB.
01:02 Thank you very much, Raja Amir Abbas,
01:04 for being with us.
01:05 Please tell us,
01:06 these cases have been opened.
01:09 Now, let's say, the hearing starts.
01:12 Then, they go for the review.
01:14 Generally, there is no difference in the review,
01:16 but since the Chief Justice was different,
01:18 now, it has changed.
01:19 Will that affect anything?
01:21 If they go for the review,
01:23 obviously, the purpose of the review is
01:26 to see if there are any errors floating on the surface.
01:30 Obviously, there are no errors.
01:32 But, if they go for the technicalities,
01:35 and if there is an issue with the bench's information,
01:41 and the decision is upset,
01:44 and it is terminated,
01:47 then, obviously, the amendments will come into the field.
01:50 And, the Supreme Court's order,
01:53 with which the cases are being reopened,
01:56 this order will be terminated,
01:58 and the cases will go back to NAB.
02:01 But, that is only in case if a review is allowed.
02:05 Otherwise, the cases, as per the order,
02:08 were to be reopened in 7 days.
02:09 Those cases have been sent,
02:11 especially to NAB Islamabad.
02:13 And, from the stage they were in,
02:15 from that same stage,
02:16 all the cases of money laundering and mega corruption,
02:21 were sent to NAB.
02:24 Raja Amir Abbas,
02:25 at that time, the situation was that
02:27 there was a case of a bribery,
02:29 there was a case of a rape,
02:31 there was a case of a crime,
02:33 and the punishment was pending.
02:35 Will they be released from that same stage,
02:37 or will there be a new way of inquiring into these cases?
02:40 See, this is exactly the date when it was terminated.
02:43 The status of the legal proceedings that were going on,
02:47 will start from there again.
02:50 And, you will know that,
02:52 even before this,
02:53 in our past,
02:54 it happened once,
02:55 that all the cases of corruption,
02:57 there was a NRO,
02:59 National Reconciliation Ordinance,
03:01 under which they were terminated.
03:03 But, then, the Supreme Court,
03:05 in full force,
03:06 ordered that this NRO,
03:08 which is non-National,
03:09 cannot exist.
03:11 And, these are ultra-viruses of the Constitution.
03:14 So, all those cases,
03:16 which were in hundreds of cases,
03:18 were reopened,
03:21 and their trial was conducted.
03:23 In the same way,
03:24 this NRO 2,
03:26 this too, now,
03:28 in the field of the decision…
03:29 But, where does this NRO 2 go?
03:30 But, apparently…
03:31 This does not exist.
03:32 This does not exist.
03:33 This was a revision in the law.
03:34 NRO was an ordinance.
03:36 There is a difference.
03:37 This was even worse than that.
03:40 The NRO's entire ordinance,
03:42 they said that,
03:44 earlier, in the NRO's court,
03:46 some cases were mixed up,
03:47 cases were dormant,
03:49 or put in closets and terminated.
03:52 But, this time,
03:53 they said, leave it.
03:54 We will completely terminate the NRO's law.
03:58 We will make this court a toothless tiger.
04:01 And, this was the purpose
04:03 for which the PDM government
04:05 openly took a stance on TV.
04:08 Mr. Khurram Dastgir's statement was that,
04:10 we are here to terminate our mega-corruption cases.
04:12 But, one thing is that,
04:13 it has not only affected PMLN,
04:16 People's Party,
04:17 but, it's benefit was also to the PTI.
04:20 Obviously, anybody who is involved in corruption,
04:23 or against whom these cases are,
04:26 whether it is from any party,
04:28 it's benefit was tried to be taken,
04:32 but, the Supreme Court ultimately reached the conclusion
04:35 that, no, this legislation
04:37 has been legislated.
04:38 There are many flaws in this legislation.
04:40 And, this is contrary to the law.
04:43 And, the law does not allow
04:46 that the governors or the people of Pakistan
04:49 should be given a corruption-free legal path
04:54 and corruption should be eliminated in a way.
04:56 Raja, tell me one thing.
04:58 Because, now, we are in a phase
05:00 where the case is moving towards elections.
05:02 In such a phase, all political parties
05:04 want to hold free sessions,
05:07 and run their campaigns.
05:08 But, all the parties have cases on their heads,
05:11 which have been cleared after the return of this amendment.
05:14 So, you think that,
05:16 the situation will be difficult for them
05:18 and they will not be able to move forward
05:20 with that much freedom in the elections,
05:22 or in the country,
05:23 let's say, Sharif Family, Asif Ali Zardari, and others.
05:26 Look, there are two categories in this.
05:29 One is those whose cases are already going on,
05:32 and there is no decision yet.
05:34 So, obviously, they have not been convicted,
05:37 so they can participate in the elections.
05:40 They have no right to do so.
05:42 But, like, Mian Nawaz Sharif,
05:44 he is a convict.
05:45 He has to face a 10-year imprisonment
05:48 according to the NAP law,
05:51 and he has a case on his head.
05:54 So, he has to come,
05:56 like you just mentioned in the intro,
05:59 that he is directly related to this.
06:01 And he will come at a time
06:04 when he was being told
06:06 that he has to prove that
06:08 these cases of corruption
06:10 will be over.
06:12 I don't see that if these cases are going on,
06:15 if the Supreme Court's decision is going on,
06:18 and the review is not succeeding,
06:21 then there are many legal difficulties for Mian Sahib.
06:26 Rajiv sahib, tell me one thing,
06:29 you spoke about NAP being a toothless tiger
06:33 after these amendments,
06:35 or whatever was done.
06:36 But, one thing we talk about is capacity.
06:40 Obviously, budget and all,
06:43 and you are a learned man,
06:45 you understand the problems NAP is facing,
06:47 the way it is being appointed there,
06:49 the issues we see in terms of recovery.
06:52 So, to sort them,
06:54 to make NAP's court better,
06:56 what can be done
06:58 so that at least these cases
07:00 reach a logical conclusion?
07:04 Otherwise, it doesn't happen.
07:06 You have correctly pointed out,
07:08 for that, more than sources,
07:11 we need an honest will.
07:13 Because we saw in the past
07:15 that the appointees in NAP,
07:17 from the chairman to the majority,
07:19 we saw that they were a little compromised,
07:23 and it was being used as a tool.
07:28 But now, in NAP,
07:30 the chairman has also come in,
07:32 and the former deputy chairman
07:34 has also given his resignation,
07:36 and the prosecutor general
07:38 has also resigned and gone home.
07:40 And the current government
07:42 is taking accountability very strictly,
07:44 that we will remove corruption from the roots
07:48 and will deal with it.
07:50 So, if this new team of NAP comes,
07:52 and in a strong way,
07:54 I think NAP will be a strong team
07:57 with its new team,
07:59 because they will not have any inclination
08:02 to deal with the political party.
08:04 Let me interrupt.
08:06 The current government,
08:08 basically, should not be blamed.
08:10 NAP's court should be so strong
08:12 that corruption should be from the government side,
08:14 from the opposition side,
08:16 from anywhere,
08:18 they should intervene and play their role.
08:20 And it should be so strong.
08:22 Absolutely, you are right.
08:24 And the current government,
08:26 if the appointments in it,
08:28 because the NAP's foundation
08:30 is obviously of operations and prosecution.
08:33 The deputy chairman is the head of operations,
08:36 and the prosecutor general
08:38 also has to be appointed by the government.
08:40 So, if these appointments become proper,
08:42 on merit, honest people get it,
08:44 the right person comes at the right place,
08:47 then NAP's law and foundation
08:50 will become stronger.
08:52 Because the foundations are stronger
08:54 than the people present there.
08:56 So, if they induct it right,
08:58 the team,
08:59 then you would see that NAP
09:01 can pursue its cases very effectively,
09:05 because the cases are mostly documentary evidence,
09:09 nothing like that.
09:11 So, the thing is that
09:13 we saw such prosecution in the past
09:15 that when they went to the court,
09:17 they said that this person
09:19 does not want to run the case,
09:21 he has not been charged for 1.5 years,
09:23 if he is stopped,
09:25 then these cases will definitely
09:27 go towards their final conclusion,
09:29 even if he is a free man.
09:31 Let's see what happens.
09:33 Thank you so much, Raja Amir Abbas,
09:35 we had a conversation with you.
09:37 And obviously, at many stages,
09:39 the same politicians on whom the cases were opened
09:41 said that NAP should be finished.
09:43 If the capacity is not better,
09:45 then that is a different matter.
09:47 But the capacity of this court
09:49 should be improved,
09:51 so that whether it is the government
09:53 or the opposition,
09:55 they should be accountable across the board.
09:57 We should not forget that
09:59 many times after the previous court,
10:01 it was said that
10:03 NAP's prosecution is weak.
10:05 There were claims of recovery,
10:07 7 billion claims of recovery
10:09 and 15 billion were made.
10:11 Many questions have been raised
10:13 in his performance.
10:15 Let's see the political scenario
10:17 and what is the legal scenario
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