00:00 So, Salman Akram Raja sahib, you have given the trial of the judge as an open jail trial
00:05 versus in camera.
00:06 Where will the trial be?
00:07 This is also a court-ordered trial.
00:08 So, if the accused themselves are satisfied, then what are you demanding here exactly?
00:15 Yes, fine, they can do it.
00:17 But now they will have to give a reply.
00:20 Look, there is a difference between jail trial and closed trial.
00:23 Jail trial can also be an open trial.
00:25 If they say that it is not possible for us to release Imran Khan sahib from jail,
00:32 if we release him from jail, his life is in danger,
00:36 then they will have to keep this material in front of them,
00:38 make it a part of the record,
00:40 the judge will have to place this material in front of him and make an order,
00:44 against that order, of course, a request will be made to the Supreme Court.
00:49 So, all this will be done.
00:51 Now, if after all this, the decision is made that the trial will be in jail,
00:55 then it will have to be kept open.
00:57 In that trial, the media, the public, the family will be allowed to come.
01:03 Except for a document, a hearing, which we consider to be confidential,
01:08 then it can be done for one hearing, to make it in camera.
01:12 But jail trial does not mean a confidential trial.
01:15 We gave the example of India.
01:17 In India, the trial of the murderers of Indira Gandhi took place.
01:19 The jail was prepared, it was in jail.
01:20 But all the media was allowed to come to the jail and see the proceedings.
01:25 Whoever expressed a desire to be present in the court room,
01:28 he was allowed.
01:30 So, in the future, we will have the authority that if the trial is to be held in the jail,
01:35 then it should be opened.
01:37 But first, in terms of being in the area,
01:39 the government will have to present solid evidence,
01:42 and a court decision will have to be made on it.
01:45 Yes, Mr. Abbasi, what will you say?
01:47 Even if the jail trial is held, it should be opened.
01:50 The media should be allowed to come.
01:51 They also gave the example of Indira Gandhi.
01:53 Look, as far as the section is concerned,
01:57 because all these things revolve around Section 352 of the CRPC.
02:03 Section 352 empowers the concerned court
02:08 that you accommodate as many people as you want to come to court,
02:14 and you do not let anyone come to court.
02:16 So, as far as the in-camera trial is concerned,
02:20 the presence of media persons does not mean that there is no in-camera.
02:26 In-camera means that you cannot publish the proceedings.
02:29 Now, there is no restriction on this.
02:32 The lawyers on the other defense side also go out and do media sessions,
02:39 and they tell all the proceedings in their own way.
02:42 So, this is not in-camera.
02:44 The definition of in-camera is different.
02:46 As far as the Indira Gandhi murder case is concerned,
02:48 the proceedings were not initiated in that case either.
02:53 And the sentence was upheld by the appellate court.
02:58 So, Mr. Salman Akram Raja, the process was that
03:01 ideally, of course, the judge should write a letter to the district magistrate,
03:05 and the federal cabinet should approve that letter.
03:08 As opposed to what we saw, that the law division sent the notification.
03:11 But you do understand that in-camera or keeping it open,
03:17 all this is the will of the court, sir, at the end of the day.
03:20 We will challenge that again.
03:23 Now, they will have to make a new notification.
03:25 This is what they want.
03:27 The government wants the trial to be in jail and in-camera.
03:30 But we will keep fighting that.
03:32 Like we fought today.
03:34 This is a fundamental right.
03:36 We are not saying that you are being tried for a case,
03:41 and that you are being asked for death penalty,
03:43 and that it should be in a closed courtroom,
03:45 where no one can see that trial.
03:47 What can be a bigger attack on justice than this?
03:51 So, if they try this again, we will fight again.
03:54 And, Mr. Salman Akram Raja,
03:56 are you seeing these wrap-ups in four weeks after today's decision?
04:00 No, it will not be possible now.
04:02 I don't see it happening.
04:04 Mr. Qasi, tell us, the Chief Justice of Islamabad High Court, Amir Farooq,
04:07 we saw that on 12th September,
04:09 he had secured a decision on Imran Khan's request for a jail sentence.
04:13 He had declared the jail trial to be correct after a month and four days.
04:17 But now, the Islamabad High Court has approved the appeal against the decision of the Chief Justice,
04:21 and has declared the decision invalid.
04:23 So, it's moving very swiftly,
04:25 but what is the impact of this order, essentially, on the entire case?
04:30 Look, the impact of this order is as I have just read it.
04:34 There were two things, I have already discussed with you,
04:38 that he had asked for two reliefs in the writ petition.
04:44 One, he had challenged the appointment of a judge,
04:47 he had challenged that notification.
04:49 To that extent, his request was turned down in the ICA.
04:53 Secondly, he had said that the notification dated 29/08/2023 is unlawful.
05:00 Beyond this, he had not made any prayer in that writ petition.
05:05 So, that notification, at that time, there was no challenge,
05:09 there was no report of 173, there were no substantial proceedings.
05:13 So, that notification, which was a one-day notification,
05:16 he turned it down, declared it illegal,
05:20 because the federal government had not accorded its sanction.
05:26 As far as the other notifications are concerned,
05:29 although he vitiated it, he declared it illegal,
05:33 and vitiated the trial,
05:35 to this extent, we will perhaps challenge the order,
05:38 but the impact of this is that if we do not challenge,
05:42 if such proceedings carry on,
05:45 then our three stages will be repeated.
05:49 Number one, the judge has to route the request through a proper forum
06:00 for the jail trial,
06:02 and the competent authority, the federal government,
06:05 has to accord it as per the request of the judge.
06:08 And after that, the proceedings will start in the jail,
06:12 in which there are 241 CRPC proceedings,
06:16 statements of the witnesses will be given to the defense side,
06:20 and the charge frame will be set after 7 days,
06:23 and along with the charge frame,
06:25 the statement of the prosecution witnesses will start getting recorded.
06:31 So, this maximum, it will take further 10 to 15 days,
06:35 according to my estimation, if this order is sustained,
06:38 and we do not challenge it.
06:40 And if you do not challenge it,
06:41 but sir, what is your personal opinion,
06:43 that you are so sure, and it is a proven step,
06:45 that this direct telecast, as the PTI is demanding,
06:48 and you just heard Raja sir,
06:50 should the direct telecast be done on PTV?
06:52 If this trial is a direct telecast,
06:56 then everyone will know,
06:58 how strong this case is with the prosecution.
07:01 But because this is not a legal requirement,
07:05 and the law, section 14 says something else,
07:09 so we have to see the will of the law,
07:12 your personal opinion does not matter here,
07:15 the law matters here.
07:17 Thank you very much,
07:19 we were with you,
07:20 both of you, Bukla, who are looking at the Cypher case,
07:22 on the side of the state,
07:24 and on the side of Mr. Khan,
