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00:00 [MUSIC PLAYING]
00:03 Hello, everyone.
00:24 My name is May Bin Khadra, and it's my pleasure
00:27 to be here with you as the moderator of this panel, in collaboration
00:30 with Philips, discussing sustainability and the health care sector.
00:34 With a strong call for immediate global climate action,
00:37 the most anticipated event of the year, COP 28, is finally here.
00:42 Over 160 global leaders are meetings in Dubai
00:45 to tackle the urgent climate crisis.
00:48 Today, the health care industry faces a tough reality
00:51 when it comes to climate change and its consequences.
00:54 Health care is both part of the solution and the problem.
00:58 How can this be dealt with?
01:00 Which opportunities exist for the health care sector?
01:03 Here are to discuss these questions and more.
01:06 Robert Metzge, Global Head of Sustainability at Philips.
01:11 Amy Lehosky, Director, Environmental, Social, and Governance at M42.
01:16 Professor Dr. Abdelrahman Ahmed-Omar, Group Medical Director,
01:21 Bourgilles Holdings, and joining us, Dr. Mazen Melkawi,
01:25 Regional Advisor on Climate Change, Health, and Environment
01:29 at the WHO Eastern Mediterranean Regional Office.
01:33 Thank you so much for joining us.
01:35 I would like to start with you, Robert, and it's great to have you
01:39 traveling to Dubai to participate at COP 28.
01:42 Tell us, what does this event mean for a multinational such as Philips?
01:47 Thanks, May.
01:48 It's a great pleasure to be here, and it's a great question also.
01:51 We are a leading health technology provider,
01:53 so we are in the middle of this sector, you could say, with health technology.
01:58 And as you said, we are not just facing the climate crisis,
02:01 we are facing an acute health care health systems crisis also.
02:04 The World Health Organization has called the climate change
02:07 as one of the most acute threats to the health care systems in the world.
02:12 And as health technology provider, I think we should be on a table,
02:15 and we should be here and talking with all relevant stakeholders,
02:18 including NGOs, governments, care providers also to say,
02:21 what can we do to provide health care in a more sustainable way?
02:25 So, how is Philips represented at COP 28?
02:29 What kind of events and discussion topics are you involved in?
02:33 So, we're here with a small group.
02:34 We have the head of our supervisory board here,
02:38 our head of government affairs, and myself as chief sustainability officer.
02:41 We will be here in various panels, but also really reaching out
02:45 and speaking with doctors, with governments, with other industry leaders
02:49 to see how we can rally the troops and decarbonize health care.
02:54 This is amazing. So, I want to move to you, Amy.
02:56 And if you can tell us how you at M42 incorporate UAE Net Zero 2050 targets and goals?
03:07 Yeah, absolutely. So, as we've all pointed out,
03:10 climate change is the biggest threat to humanity
03:13 with over 13 million people dying from climate-related health issues.
03:19 At M42, we recognize that and we take a twofold approach.
03:23 First of all, we look at prevention.
03:25 So, we look at deploying technology such as Med 42,
03:29 such as utilizing AI modelling to prevent people entering the system
03:34 and becoming patients in the first place.
03:37 We secondly look at our carbon footprint.
03:39 We know that the health care industry, if it was a country,
03:43 it would be the fifth largest emitter in the world.
03:46 So, by shining a light on that and taking tangible actions
03:50 to decarbonize our assets in infrastructure,
03:54 we were able to proudly announce our Net Zero commitment by 2050.
04:00 And we're currently in the process of developing a tangible transition plan
04:04 to enable us to achieve that.
04:07 This is great. And I think an important part of our discussion today
04:11 is to find and agree on a definition of sustainability in the health care sector.
04:17 Let's ask Dr. Mazen. Dr. Mazen, thank you so much for joining us.
04:22 And we would like to know how do you at WHO define sustainability in health care?
04:30 Thanks a lot for the question.
04:32 WHO actually is concerned in the climate resilience and sustainability
04:38 of the health system as well, including the health care facilities
04:41 and the health care delivery.
04:43 And we put a very open definition.
04:49 The health system and the health care facilities that are capable to anticipate,
04:55 respond to, cope with and recover from climatic shocks
04:59 that will affect the health services.
05:02 We've seen the floods in Pakistan and Libya,
05:05 where some of the health facilities were destroyed,
05:08 equipment was out of order.
05:11 But we would like a health system that can withstand such stress
05:15 and continue the provision of health services to the public.
05:20 In the 2022 floods of Pakistan,
05:23 millions of people actually were left without health services
05:27 because simply the health care facilities and the system
05:32 was not resilient enough to anticipate the deadly flood
05:37 that had drawn Pakistan for some time.
05:41 So this is very interesting. I'm going to get back to you, Dr. Mazen,
05:45 with more on your expectations from COP28.
05:48 Professor Abdelrahman, how do you define sustainability in health care?
05:55 You know, it's simple. It doesn't go from the normal definition of sustainability.
05:59 Sustainability in health care is provision of health care with high quality,
06:03 good outcomes while maintaining the future for the coming generations
06:08 to have a better situation or even continue to have good things happening to them.
06:13 And this is how multi-factors, one of them is the carbon emission
06:17 that we will talk about, net zero now.
06:19 So this is very interesting. If we look at the global health care sector,
06:24 if it was a country, it would be the fifth largest greenhouse gas emitter
06:29 on the planet, according to the health care climate footprint.
06:33 And Robert, that makes this sector both the problem and the solution, doesn't it?
06:38 Yeah, and it's fascinating to see that a lot of care providers are seeing that also, right?
06:44 I mean, we see that hospitals are not only impacted and you both spoke about it.
06:50 We see the burdens rising. We see how fragile people, more vulnerable people,
06:55 sick people are especially suffering from prolonged heat waves in cities and so forth.
06:59 But at the same time, as you said, there are so many emissions coming from the health care sector.
07:03 If you really look at the sector end to end,
07:07 and care providers are stepping up and seeing that and they try to address that.
07:11 So it's fascinating that actually the problem and also part of the solution are hand in hand
07:16 and that care providers and the sector are stepping up.
07:20 So I think, Amy, a big part of this discussion has to do with the role of technology
07:25 in achieving whether you are E-net zero targets, whether a sustainable community,
07:32 whether a climate change goals, all of this has to do with technology.
07:36 And I think we came to realize that following the years following COVID,
07:40 because technology was incorporated in different industries and in different sectors.
07:46 Walk us through what does technology mean to you at M42
07:50 when it comes to making a more sustainable future?
07:54 So we know that the impacts of climate change is going to be most hardest hit for those communities,
08:01 most at risk and most vulnerable.
08:04 We also know that we need to gain information to understand the health of our natural systems
08:10 and the health of humans.
08:12 So we utilize technology, AI predictive modeling to gain insights and gather big data.
08:20 So for example, at the moment, we're in partnership with an amazing global research entity called OceanX.
08:27 So we have our environmental genomics researchers currently on the Gulf,
08:33 collecting massive amounts of data on our oceans to have a greater understanding on our ocean health.
08:40 Why are oceans important? They are the largest carbon sink on the globe.
08:45 So by graining this information, we can gain trends to understand more about our natural systems.
08:52 Using predictive modeling, we are able to see how these trends will evolve over time,
08:57 and we can have a greater understanding between the relationship between natural systems and human health
09:03 and what we need to do to change that dynamic to improve the way that we're living our life.
09:10 This is very interesting. I want to go to you, Dr. Mazen.
09:15 And, you know, each year we have many events and panels and conferences focused on sustainability.
09:22 Today, when you look at COP28, what do you hope this summit, you know, succeed to achieve?
09:31 How does it compare to COP27? What kind of achievements would you like to see?
09:38 By all means, this COP is very different from health perspective.
09:45 We are having for the first time ever a health day dedicated for health activities,
09:52 which has never been addressed by the other COPs.
09:56 And we hope that this will continue in the coming COPs, and health will be part of the official negotiations
10:04 of the UNFCCC discussions in the future.
10:07 Because so far, we have been addressing health from an awareness-raising point of view
10:13 and sort of just educate the people about the health impacts.
10:18 But we hope that after this COP, we will have a ministerial conference for the first time,
10:25 the ministers of health from all parts of the world will meet with other ministers of environment, energy, and others.
10:33 So far, I think more than 67 ministers already confirmed their participation.
10:41 Hopefully, we will have a new declaration on climate change and health,
10:46 drawing the roadmap for the coming years, how the collaboration between the energy sector,
10:52 the environment sector, the sustainable development sector, and the health sector
10:57 will work hand-in-hand in order to protect the human health
11:02 and in order to minimize the health impact of the health sector on the environment.
11:10 By the way, just on ranking the greenhouse gas emissions from the health sector,
11:16 there is a difference between the health sector in developing countries and developed countries.
11:21 In developing countries such as ours, we produce 4 to 5% of the greenhouse gas emissions at the national level,
11:28 while in developed countries, they produce 8 to 10%.
11:32 But it's a bit different, but it is a major contributing to greenhouse gases.
11:38 Back to you.
11:39 This is very interesting what you just mentioned, doctor.
11:42 We're going to have to discuss this further.
11:44 I just want to mention as well that health costs generated by climate change and pollution
11:49 are estimated to be $820 billion a year.
11:54 And that makes the sector so essential when we talk about the sustainability agenda.
12:00 This discussion will continue after this short break.
12:03 [Music]
12:23 And we are talking here today about climate change, sustainability,
12:28 and the role of the health care sector in achieving sustainability goals.
12:33 Of course, the health care sector is part of the problem.
12:36 It's also part of the solution.
12:38 And to what extent are there opportunities and challenges to achieving net zero when it comes to this sector?
12:46 I want to get back to you, Robert, and Dr. Mazen was mentioning right before the break
12:52 that we need to understand that measuring and looking at emissions in the health care sector
12:58 is different between developing and developed countries.
13:01 Can you tell us and just elaborate for us why is it the case?
13:05 Yeah, it's striking if you think about it, right?
13:07 I mean, we mentioned earlier that the emissions from the health care sector globally are,
13:11 if it would be a country, the fifth largest country, to put another statistics on the table,
13:16 on global average, the amount of the emissions is bigger than all airlines and shipping lines together.
13:22 And people often don't reflect on that. So that's staggering.
13:25 But it becomes even more shocking, I would say, if you factor in the point that four and a half billion people
13:33 do not have access to quality health care today.
13:36 That's about half or more than half of mankind.
13:39 Right. So that means that, as Dr. Mazen said before the break also,
13:43 that these emissions come from the happy half of mankind, the four billion people that do have access to health care.
13:50 So if we want to think about democratising health care,
13:53 if we want to think about global coverage of health services,
13:57 if we want to make health care truly globally accessible,
13:59 we need to find solutions even more urgently to reduce the footprint per treatment.
14:05 And we need to also understand what kinds of technologies should we rely on
14:10 when it comes to measuring emissions. Don't you agree, Amy, with this?
14:14 I do. And just further into your point in terms of democratising health care,
14:19 within M42, we're taking a unique approach to utilise systems like Med42,
14:25 which is essentially a chat GBT for medicine.
14:29 Everyone around the world has a smartphone. So it's something that's highly accessible
14:33 and it allows both doctors and patients to do their own research and ascertain,
14:38 well, do I really need to go into the health care system to begin with?
14:42 So that has a significant impact in terms of reducing the carbon footprint,
14:46 not only in terms of the transport emissions,
14:48 but we know that hospitals themselves have a much higher energy intensity than conventional offices.
14:56 So again, trying to prevent people entering the system and becoming patients in the first place,
15:01 empowering them to make their own decisions, utilising technology.
15:07 And this is due to, you know, when you talk about the sector's energy consumption,
15:11 we are talking about food production, use of certain gases, transportation.
15:16 All of them are really carbon intensive.
15:19 But I would like to hear from you, Professor Abdelrahman,
15:22 how do you at Bourjil tackle all of these challenges when it comes to achieving sustainability,
15:28 when the health care sector is one of the most carbon intensive, as Amy was talking about?
15:34 I mean, in real life, for institutes that directly provide things, there are different things.
15:39 One of the things are the level of your stakeholders or the shareholders,
15:43 because we are a publicly trading company.
15:45 We have to put in our portfolio like people, planet, profit.
15:49 So these two triple bottom lines, that's very important to reflect this.
15:53 The second thing is our involvement with the society.
15:57 We are very close to the people, because we are hospitals, people coming in, people coming out.
16:01 So the education part of it, including educating and uplifting the principles of sustainability
16:09 in the minds of our employees, our patients, co-patients, and the surrounding group of population.
16:16 We reach out. Other than educating our staff, we reach out.
16:19 And this is partial also for resolving the problem,
16:23 because we have things that help to stop the emission, such as using technology,
16:31 such as carbon toxic technologies, upgrading it, consumption of light, pollution,
16:41 which is mainly like you have to change all your lights to low emitting bulbs, for example.
16:47 And you have motion sensors that areas at night that's not used, it shuts down automatically.
16:52 This is within. Also, like even using chemicals for cleaning,
16:59 because we use a lot of cleaning detergents. They have to be biodegradable.
17:04 Some small thing that people do not notice, our consumables.
17:08 We change all our bags from plastic bags to paper, recyclable bags.
17:12 When you take something from the medications, the type of medications,
17:17 there is medications that are very cheap but not biodegradable.
17:20 There are medications other way around. Inhalers, there are different type of inhalers.
17:25 You go to different things. Energy devices. So it's a little bit big.
17:30 And on top of that, we go to the society.
17:33 We create it around the hospitals, what we call sustainability gardens.
17:38 And we go to schools. We have sustainability gardens in some schools.
17:42 Every child plant a tree, look after it.
17:44 And this is how we extend it there with the health providers as well.
17:48 But to what you were talking about, it seems like it's kind of a challenge for the health care sector,
17:52 because they have to make a balance between keeping profitability margins,
17:57 keeping a good profit, and at the same time being sustainable.
18:00 I will get back to you, but I would like to get to Dr. Mazen.
18:03 And when I look at the scope of this topic, we are talking about maybe four ways
18:11 health care provider can turn to be more sustainable.
18:14 Practice chemical safety, follow waste disposal protocols, save energy and preserve water.
18:20 Which one of these do you think that it's the most important?
18:23 It depends on the state of development of the country and the health care facility.
18:31 But they are all equally important type of interventions.
18:36 You need to have a workforce that is well educated to protect the health of the patients
18:42 as well as themselves and the health of the environment around it, surrounding them.
18:47 You need to have appropriate water sanitation and waste management system,
18:53 so as again to protect the health of the patients and the public.
18:58 You need to have good infrastructure and supplies, which is, if you try to estimate,
19:06 at least let me talk about the scope of our countries,
19:09 about 70% of the greenhouse gases are coming from the supply chain
19:14 and from the activities that are not under the control of the health care facility.
19:21 But if you do collaborate and coordinate your work with major providers of services
19:27 and try to do your sort of purchasing, have agreed purchase policy,
19:35 definitely you will achieve a lot in minimal effort.
19:40 But in some of the countries, actually the water supply and sanitation is very important.
19:48 Of course, the energy sector, how we are using energy, how we are rationalizing the use of energy.
19:54 And on the mentioning of that, it is expensive.
19:58 Actually, we do have some case studies from countries of the world that in two, three, four years' time,
20:04 once you install appropriate interventions, you start gaining money.
20:08 Just an example, in Somalia last year, we provided one of the hospitals, an off-grid hospital,
20:15 with a solar solution to provide energy for the whole hospital.
20:19 We do have the analysis, the savings in cost of energy, the health savings and saving lives
20:25 is definitely a cost-effective, cost-benefit solution.
20:31 Dr. Mazen, let me ask you this.
20:34 Just a question that just came to my mind.
20:37 The healthcare sector had a major setback due to Corona and COVID in 2020.
20:44 Do you think that this actually decelerated the progress towards achieving a sustainable healthcare sector?
20:52 Yes, indeed. Actually, this is what we are saying to the policy makers and to the decision makers,
20:58 that we don't need another Corona, another COVID-19 to destroy the system.
21:04 What we would like, we would like to make the system robust so as to be ready for any coming
21:10 sort of epidemic or disease induced by climate change.
21:16 Yes, the COVID-19 was sort of inspiring, although it was very tragic,
21:22 but it inspired the need for going resilient and more sustainable.
21:29 Robert, to what extent would you agree that looking at the sustainability agenda of healthcare,
21:35 was COVID-19 a major setback?
21:38 I wouldn't say it was a major setback. It was an enormous stress for the healthcare sector around the world.
21:44 We know there's a shortage of doctors anyway. We have seen people go into burnout.
21:49 We have seen these huge explosions of patients all around the globe.
21:53 But at the same time, you see also the resilience, the enormous commitment of healthcare professionals
21:58 to serve patients. So, adopting new protocols, innovating, adopting new technologies,
22:06 really driving the digitalization of healthcare that Amy was referring to also.
22:10 So, I think in that sense, it was a trigger to systematically think how we can do things better
22:17 in the healthcare sector. That includes, and it should include to my mind also,
22:21 how we can do things more sustainable in the healthcare sector.
22:24 And digitalization is an important part of that.
22:26 I think, Robert, that's a really valid point. I see it as a COVID win. It actually drove innovation.
22:32 So, obviously, COVID had some downsides, but at the same time, it showed the world coming together,
22:37 collaborative working to find a solution, driven by innovation.
22:42 And we can see that technology was at the heart of it.
22:45 And M42 was part of that journey with the globe to try and establish and find a solution
22:50 through the use of the vaccine program. So, yeah, I see it as a tool to drive change.
22:57 And we do know, you brought up a really good fact in terms of we already don't have enough doctors
23:03 and nurses. So, in order to bridge the gap, both now and into the future,
23:08 technology will provide the solution to bridge the gap, whether it be through remote care, telecare,
23:15 AI predictive modeling, bringing all those tools together will empower us to increasingly
23:21 democratize healthcare globally.
23:23 Yeah, maybe even in the hospital building on what you're saying, Amy, for some practical examples.
23:28 If you think about, for instance, these huge machines are very energy-intensive.
23:32 It's not only the machine that determines how much energy you use, right?
23:36 It's the care protocols, it's how they are used, it's the utilization.
23:39 But it's also, for instance, with AI, you can, for instance, half scanning time
23:45 while maintaining picture quality, right? You can extend life cycle.
23:49 You can, if you think about circular models, so for instance, refurbishing these machines
23:54 and using the big machines, the big magnets again, but then having updated software
23:59 and sensors in it. So, there's so many things where technology and also digitalization
24:03 can help to reduce the footprint per treatment, even in hospital.
24:08 More efficient, it's more efficient.
24:10 So, it takes a lot of pressure off healthcare sector when we talk about technology.
24:15 It's not only about achieving sustainability, but it takes a lot of the pressure off this sector.
24:21 Anyways, I would like to first thank Dr. Mazen Melkawi, Regional Advisor on Climate Change,
24:26 Health and Environmental at the WHO Eastern Mediterranean Regional Office.
24:31 Thank you so much, Dr. Mazen, for joining us today.
24:35 Our pleasure, Esma.
24:38 And ladies and gentlemen, into a short break and we will be back.
24:41 Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen. So, today we are talking about, of course,
25:03 achieving sustainability in the healthcare sector, one of the most carbon-intensive sectors
25:10 around the globe. And I would like now to introduce and welcome Mr. Sameh Alfangari,
25:15 Cluster President, GCC and Pakistan at AstraZeneca.
25:20 Mr. Sameh, thank you so much for joining us today.
25:24 Thanks, Ma'am, for having me.
25:26 So, it's a debate today or it's more of a discussion around what are the most carbon-intensive aspects of healthcare.
25:35 So, I would like to hear your thoughts on that.
25:38 So, first of all, thanks for being part of such an inclusive panel today.
25:45 And I'm sure that you will all agree with me that more than ever,
25:50 that the climate crisis is becoming the greatest public health challenge of the 21st century.
25:57 We can see the phenomenon of the pollution is impacting all our day-to-day life.
26:03 We can see this in the unprecedented rise in the temperature associated with floods.
26:09 But, you know, the impact on health specifically, we can see this in numbers
26:14 where we see the incidence of lung cancer and premature death of respiratory diseases rising up 160% in the last 30 years.
26:26 And if we take this globally, every two seconds, there is a registered premature death in the age between 30 to 70 years old,
26:35 which is, you know, a worrying number to look at.
26:40 On the other hand, globally, the healthcare sector as well is responsible for around 4 to 5% of the carbon emission.
26:50 And as a patient-centric organization, we can only say that we will be able to save humanity
26:57 if we are taking radical actions to work collectively and to reducing the overall carbon emission.
27:04 Of course, public-private partnership is critical for the success of all of us.
27:10 We are all part of the problem, so we should be all part of the solution.
27:15 I agree on that. You mentioned the private-public collaboration, and I think this is key,
27:21 especially when it comes to technology. I will get back to Amy on this one.
27:25 But, Robert, when I look at the healthcare industry, I think one of the greatest targets that can be achieved
27:32 through engaging suppliers to improving their ESG practices. The question is how? How should we do it?
27:39 Yeah, I think so. And maybe coming back to what Dr. Omar said earlier, I think there is a need for transparency also.
27:46 It starts with really understanding where the impact is and knowing that 70% of the impact of a healthcare provider
27:53 is in their supply chain, which means including technology providers like ourselves, but then also looking upstream.
27:59 Philips has about 15,000 or so billion material suppliers globally.
28:03 So how do you get them moving and reducing the carbon footprint?
28:07 One of the things that we have done, we started many years ago, I think 10 years ago,
28:13 to systematically reduce the carbon footprint of our own operations.
28:16 Since 2020, we operate carbon-neutral globally, and with the insights that we got from that, we go to our suppliers.
28:22 We really talk with them. We help them reduce their carbon emissions.
28:25 When we committed ourselves to science-based targets for scope 1, 2, and 3, which means our own operations,
28:31 we use 100% green electricity, but also everything around, we said that is something that we would like to see
28:37 with these huge supply base. And by 2025, we hope to have 50% of our global supply chain to commit to science-based targets.
28:45 And we actively work with them. And today, it's already more than 46% as of last week.
28:51 So I think these are signals that companies in supply chains and also healthcare providers can do to engage their suppliers.
28:59 This is completely true. But at the same time, I liked what Mr. Samih was mentioning,
29:06 that need of private-public collaboration in achieving sustainability goals.
29:11 And I think this really relates to technology, Amy.
29:15 Yeah, absolutely. Look, sustainability can be a lonely sport.
29:21 And the road to net zero can again be a challenging one unless we collaborate.
29:27 And that's why at M42, we actively engage with both public sector, NGOs, and research bodies, such as the like of OceanX.
29:36 Within the public sector, we partner with the likes of Department of Health,
29:41 where we work on our human genomics program. With the research vessel, we work on our environmental genomics program.
29:49 And further to what I was talking about before, the gathering of these big data can be used for AI predictive modelling
29:56 to understand further about the health of our planet and the health of our humans
30:02 and the complex interrelationship between the two and how we can use this information to do things like inform global policy.
30:12 You know, when I think about this topic, I think there are two main issues.
30:17 One is credibility and the other is how do you measure emissions, you know, measuring criteria,
30:23 and to what extent would you have to allow science and technology to get into the measuring criteria?
30:29 I will get back to this. But Professor Ahmed, when you look at credibility,
30:33 do you think that we need a sort of rating system for the health care sector when they deal with suppliers
30:41 to make sure that the supplier himself is having a clear set sustainability agenda and is following it?
30:49 I mean, this is for sure what's happening. OK, and it's happening in different ways.
30:54 There is a ways that people think about the philosophy and anthropogenic things that they want to happen,
31:00 and there is a commercial side of things. OK, nowadays in the world we have to be realistic.
31:05 Everything is commercialized. Even sustainability work is commercialized.
31:09 And this is a way to enhance the work on it. So we can give rating.
31:15 People like now we know energy consumption rating. You can see it everywhere.
31:19 You buy a fridge, you know, is it green, black, or red? And the same thing should we go for sustainability?
31:26 And this is stop the consumer or the end user from looking into why it's happening.
31:31 Also rewarding companies like that where they are given better contracts,
31:36 they can cut down their taxation system. So they have motive.
31:40 Yes, motive. And this comes from the regulatory bodies or the governments.
31:45 And that ends up in this way. For us it has to be compulsory.
31:49 If we are buying anything or using any vehicles for providing health,
31:57 we have this priority in our choice of the supplier to know that how we're going to do this and it's part of our duties.
32:04 It has to be built up from measuring to how we do it, and some of it has to be a mandatory requirement.
32:11 Otherwise, we will take longer time to do it.
32:15 Also, like in Australia and different parts of the world, people have measured their health services emission,
32:22 and they give it a number and they know how long it's going to take them to do it.
32:26 And like in Australia, I know that by -- it's not 2050. 2045 is they go as usual,
32:31 and if, God forbid, we hit again by another price, it's going to be 248.
32:35 But most of the other countries have got no idea where they're going.
32:38 The NHS in the UK has started. The Canadian system has started.
32:41 But what happens to the rest of the world? That's the question.
32:44 So it's not only about setting a target. It's about setting a path to reach this target.
32:49 Exactly.
32:50 And I think the other issue here, Sameh, has to do with, let's call it the science of setting a target.
32:57 How do you do that?
33:01 Yeah, I think the science-based targets can identify the baseline,
33:08 but definitely can, as mentioned, be very clear about the end-of-mind goals.
33:15 But more importantly, the strategies to tackle specific opportunities to get there as quick as possible.
33:21 Because I agree that most of the companies now, they have targets to achieve it by 2045, 2050 latest.
33:30 We're very proud in AstraZeneca to self-commit ourselves to reach those targets.
33:37 And despite that, globally, we're doubling in size,
33:41 but we have seen a reduction of 60% of our overall carbon emission in the last few years.
33:48 But the inflection points really was about how we can build on these science-based targets collectively
33:55 and foster collaboration.
33:57 And I recall a couple of years back in COP26 in Glasgow,
34:03 where the Sustainable Market Initiative that maybe many of you are aware of now,
34:09 forming 13 different working groups, AstraZeneca, through its CEO, Mahath Sourjoh,
34:16 is chairing the Sustainable Market Initiatives for the private healthcare sector.
34:21 And that's where really we started to see an inflection in terms of accelerating the decrease of the carbon emission.
34:30 Because working upstream to suppliers, but working downstream as well to the decarbonization of patient pathway
34:37 is where we can really be able to achieve a significant reduction that can motivate everyone
34:44 beside the economic incentive that we've just been talking about.
34:48 But seeing that with impacting patient lives and impacting healthcare sector in general
34:54 and the resilience of the healthcare sector,
34:57 this will encourage more collaboration and foster more collaboration in the near future.
35:01 - So, Samah, let me ask you, what does that mean to your bottom line, to your profits?
35:07 To what extent have your sustainability agenda had an impact on your profitability margins,
35:14 on your expenses, on how your shareholders are reacting to what is happening operationally and financially?
35:23 - I think at this point in time, we are not monitoring it in a balance sheet to profitability,
35:31 but it's more about sustainability of the business and the contribution to the society.
35:37 Because we are at the end of the day, we are a business, but with a mission of creating better life for people, society and the planet.
35:47 And we see that the three of them are correlated and connected.
35:51 And this is in the heart of what we do.
35:53 But of course, with the progress and things moving forward,
35:58 the companies that they would be able to show that they are able to deliver on their commitment,
36:05 they are the ones who would be fitting for the future.
36:08 And it may come at a certain point of time, a license to upgrade.
36:12 So that's how we are looking into it. It's not like a short-term profits or economic contribution.
36:19 But of course, economic incentive may help.
36:22 But this is not what we are focusing on at this point in time.
36:27 - I would fully agree. Maybe if I can double down on that also.
36:30 That's the same, of course, is true for Philips.
36:32 The purpose of the company is to improve two and a half billion people's lives.
36:35 You cannot do that. Business cannot prosper if society fails.
36:38 So it's an urgent need to be on a roadmap towards net zero.
36:44 At the same time, of course, you see it makes also business sense.
36:47 If we are able to, for instance, refurbish large medical equipment,
36:51 if we are able to design more energy efficient equipment,
36:53 we are addressing needs of the hospitals of the healthcare sector.
36:57 So our colleagues from the healthcare sector are telling us we want to deliver sustainable healthcare.
37:04 We want to make it more accessible.
37:06 So if we are able to develop solutions that are directly relevant to our customers,
37:11 I think we have a competitive advantage.
37:13 - Yeah, and this will always reflect also on shareholders,
37:17 because globally I have seen shareholders pressuring board of directors of publicly listed companies
37:24 that you need to have a very clear sustainability agenda.
37:28 We don't only want the target. We want the path to achieve this target.
37:32 This is a very interesting discussion, and of course, it's continuing just right after this break.
37:38 (dramatic music)
37:41 - So COP28 just started, and it seems like the focus is on different industries
38:00 and different sectors and their contribution to climate change.
38:04 Today we're focusing on healthcare sector, and I would like to get back to Professor Omar.
38:10 When it comes to the pressure, the pressure this time is from investors,
38:15 from shareholders, on the company boards, on company management,
38:19 to not only mention the target, the ultimate target, when it comes to achieving net zero,
38:24 but also the strategy that the company is having to achieve these targets.
38:29 To what extent, because Brazil is a publicly listed company,
38:32 so you can tell us about your experience when it comes to this topic.
38:35 - I mean, usually we are, as people who are managing the company,
38:40 and trusted by our shareholders, we have to go ahead of what's happening.
38:44 We know now, globally, people are going for what we call ethical investment,
38:49 and they know that sustainability is part of the general ethics.
38:54 We have young people who are investing.
38:56 They are more focused on the ethical principle of investment, on the sustainability of things,
39:03 and this is also demanded by the people who are investing
39:06 before coming down to us as providers and managers.
39:11 So it's a global phenomenon that's going, putting the right pressure for the right reason
39:17 that we like and enjoy, but it's going to get everybody coming together
39:21 to achieve the goals we're looking for.
39:24 - Let's hear from AstraZeneca, how do they look at this?
39:27 Sameh, do you feel the pressure from investors, from shareholders,
39:31 when it comes to sustainability and achieving net zero?
39:35 - Yes, I think that the public sector are driving policies, reforms,
39:44 building national visions to reach those targets,
39:51 and I think that they count more on collaboration of the private sector
39:57 where the skill set of the innovation is there,
40:00 and to mobilize initiatives towards achieving those goals.
40:04 So I think that when it comes to the partnership,
40:10 I can have a couple of examples of what we do here
40:16 with Sahha and Pure Health.
40:21 We started to look into chronic kidney disease, for example,
40:25 and see how early detection of such kind of illnesses
40:30 can reduce significantly the carbon emission,
40:34 and by having a white paper that would be presented in COP28,
40:40 this would give a proof point that those kinds of policies
40:43 could be changing protocols and giving incentive
40:48 for much more collaboration to come.
40:50 We have a similar one as well in Saudi Arabia with the Ministry of Health
40:53 and United Nations Global Compact for decarbonization of healthcare.
40:57 So as I mentioned, the pressure, if it comes through policies and protocols
41:03 that would be implementable with the kind of dashboard
41:06 that can show what good looks like,
41:08 is where those pressure could be moved from being pressure
41:12 to being an incentive to do more.
41:15 So, Aimee, I think what Sameh is talking about is that
41:18 if at the government level we have targets,
41:22 it should be the regulatory environment should also have
41:28 a certain pressure on companies, on different sectors
41:31 to achieve these targets.
41:33 How do you make that? How do you do that, in your opinion?
41:37 So just again to set the scene, for the first time in history,
41:42 our future generations are going to have a worse off quality of life
41:47 than we have today.
41:49 So it's the first time in history.
41:51 So looking at the perspective from an intergenerational perspective
41:54 and coming back to your question in terms of the role of regulation,
41:57 there are three key drivers for change.
42:01 One is definitely regulation.
42:03 So from a federal level, setting in place policies and procedures
42:07 for industry to follow.
42:09 Secondly and importantly, it's looking at incentives.
42:13 So incentives both in terms of financial incentives
42:16 and rewarding those who are achieving the best,
42:20 so the market leaders.
42:22 And finally and importantly, capacity building.
42:25 So looking at how we can demystify the topic
42:29 and collaborate with partners to achieve a low carbon future.
42:34 And across all of this is underpinning it is technology.
42:38 So tech enabled solutions.
42:41 So using big data to drive change for the betterment of humanity.
42:47 Robert?
42:48 Very clear.
42:49 So if I can build on that, Amy, I think maybe to make it more practical
42:54 on the incentive side, for instance, governments are not just regulators,
42:57 they're also big purchasers.
42:59 So talking about green and sustainable public procurement,
43:02 especially in the healthcare sector, could be a huge impulse
43:05 for the entire industry.
43:08 Maybe on the capacity building even, right?
43:10 Imagine that nations would appoint local champions
43:15 that would help the healthcare sectors to develop roadmaps
43:19 to decarbonize and exchange best practices.
43:23 And then set up programs that would help care providers
43:26 to bring these things into practice.
43:28 So there are a lot of things that governments can also do
43:30 on capacity building and incentives beyond regulation.
43:33 And maybe a point that has been made earlier on the investor side,
43:37 we don't experience that so much as pressure from the investors,
43:40 it's also support from the investors.
43:42 Investors want to de-risk their investments.
43:45 So we have been, for instance, issuing bonds for investing
43:49 in green innovation, sustainable innovation,
43:51 for building refurbishment centers.
43:53 And we have been able to develop new technologies,
43:56 for instance, helium-free MR scanners or whatever.
43:59 So these type of things are possible because of partnerships
44:01 with investors that want to invest in meaningful technology
44:05 that helps to deliver more sustainable healthcare.
44:07 I think it's also looking at just rethinking the sector completely.
44:12 So looking at it from a human health perspective
44:16 rather than healthcare.
44:18 Looking at it from a preventative perspective
44:21 rather than a cure.
44:23 Focusing on the person rather than the patient.
44:27 So it's a change in mindset of the whole healthcare sector.
44:32 And I think that's really going to help - that change in mindset
44:35 will help us address the challenges in the future,
44:38 particularly as it relates to the demand and supply gap.
44:41 So we know, as you mentioned before,
44:43 we're not going to have enough doctors and nurses in the future.
44:47 The issues and impacts on human health as a result of climate change
44:53 is only going to worsen.
44:56 I think, you know, one of the key topics that will be discussed
45:01 in COP28 is the financing.
45:03 You know, we talk about sustainability and we should have a clear agenda
45:07 and a clear path and strategy, but the thing is, how do you finance it?
45:11 And to what extent is the banking sector supporting you,
45:15 governments are supporting you,
45:17 and to what extent are investors supporting you?
45:20 Robert, you just mentioned green bonds.
45:23 Etbourgeil, to what extent do you have appetite to issue green bonds?
45:28 It is incorporated in our system.
45:31 We don't call it financing, we call it investment.
45:34 We invest in green energies.
45:38 We invest in net zero projects.
45:41 We invest in lower consumption of whatever produces carbon.
45:45 We don't call it financing.
45:47 It's part of our investment policy.
45:49 It's part of the future, part of this going forward,
45:52 because we believe that we have a message and we have a mission to deliver,
45:57 and part of this mission is health, which is well-being,
46:01 which is exactly what Amy was talking about.
46:04 You cannot just keep on treating people and call it health care.
46:07 Health care has got everything from prevention to cure,
46:11 and looking after the planet, preventing disease on the planet,
46:16 chipping away without giving a chance to heal, we are getting sad.
46:20 So this is how we look at it.
46:22 Invest, do not think about finance.
46:24 Sameh, I interview a lot of industries and talk about sustainability,
46:29 and one of the issues that keep coming up as a challenge is the financing.
46:35 I want to hear your perspective from AstraZeneca perspective.
46:39 When you look at sustainability agenda and achieving net zero,
46:43 what is, in your opinion, the biggest challenge?
46:46 Is it only financing or do you see other challenges?
46:50 I don't think that we don't look into it as a challenge.
46:54 To tell you frankly, it's an opportunity,
46:56 because we agree that it's an investment.
46:59 We are an innovation-driven industry,
47:02 and when we look into the innovation,
47:04 this means that the intellectual capital of the organization
47:08 to create that innovation from the new generation joining the company now,
47:12 for them, sustainability and ethical investment
47:18 is very, very important for all of us here working within the company.
47:23 And then the shareholders are the same.
47:25 They understand that innovation is more about long-term value.
47:29 Innovation saves lives, innovation saves money,
47:32 and innovation creates the business of the future.
47:36 If we look into the impact that this creates on either operation today,
47:44 when we look into the supply chain,
47:46 or even the enhancement of the use of the technology,
47:51 artificial intelligence, sustainable ways of the research and development,
47:56 and even when you go to reaching out patients early,
47:59 because I was very glad to hear that early detection and prevention
48:05 would save definitely the planet from excessive carbon emission,
48:10 and we can see that in the example that I gave on the chronic kidney disease.
48:15 The total chronic kidney disease in the UAE emits a carbon
48:20 which is equivalent to a plane circling the globe 359 times.
48:26 So, you can imagine that if we are able to detect those patients early
48:30 and apply the technology and the right level of healthcare policies,
48:36 discovering them early and not keeping them to be picked up late in their journey,
48:46 this would be a big investment.
48:49 And it would definitely benefit both the business and the people
48:54 and society at the end of the day.
48:57 So, Amy, Samih just mentioned a lot of the ideas you were talking about,
49:01 is that technology is not only about achieving sustainability,
49:06 it also saves lives.
49:08 Yeah, absolutely.
49:10 The endless opportunities with technology.
49:13 So, in terms of the technology that we've deployed here,
49:17 looking again back at our environmental sciences genomics program,
49:22 it's an ability for it to gather big data sets on our natural systems.
49:28 So, through that, we can look at the relationship between
49:31 our changing natural systems and human health.
49:35 So, for the first time in history, we're seeing new diseases spring up
49:40 in new geographic locations, for example, malaria.
49:44 So, how can we use AI predictive modelling to predict where these new diseases
49:50 are going to be springing up and what measures we need to put in place
49:54 to try and reduce those impacts on communities,
49:57 particularly those most at risk and vulnerable?
50:01 Robert, what are your last thing you would like to end this panel with?
50:06 So, I would build on what Amy said and broaden it.
50:08 I think it's not just about technology, it's about innovation in the sector,
50:12 but it's also how care is delivered and how care is organized.
50:15 I think we should really start measuring the ecological footprint
50:19 per treatment or per healthy person, basically,
50:22 and develop solutions that address that.
50:25 Technology is an important part of that, but it's also about financing systems,
50:28 reimbursement systems, education, and collaboration.
50:33 Professor Abdelrahman?
50:35 It is almost covering everything, but I would like to start with one message.
50:40 We are during the time for COP28, where the world comes together.
50:45 And this is what we should do.
50:47 This is an opportunity for us, since we came together,
50:50 to put something holistic for planet Earth and work on it together,
50:54 measure it, and see how far we can go.
50:56 Thank you so much all for joining us here at CNBC Arabia.
51:00 Robert Matzge, Global Head of Sustainability at Philips.
51:05 Also Amy Lohosky, Director Environmental, Social, and Governance, M42.
51:11 I would also like to thank Professor Dr. Abdelrahman Ahmed-Omar,
51:15 Group Medical Director, Bourjil Holdings,
51:18 and joining us Mr. Sameh Alfangari, Cluster President, GCC and Pakistan at AstraZeneca.
51:24 Thank you so much all for joining us.
51:26 Thank you.
51:28 So ladies and gentlemen, the responsibility of protecting this planet
51:33 is a shared responsibility.
51:35 It's not only up to the governments, it's not only up to the companies,
51:39 it's a shared responsibility that touches the personal lives of each and every single one of us.
51:45 Thank you so much for watching. Goodbye.
51:47 [Music]