00:00 the first of its kind deal to avert the worst effects of climate change.
00:04 But the language is weaker than the quote phasing out of fossil fuels,
00:08 which more than 100 countries had been lobbying for in Dubai.
00:12 We're going to talk more about that now with Frederic Roder.
00:14 Frederic, welcome.
00:16 You're vice president of global policy and advocacy for the NGO Global Citizen.
00:20 You were in Dubai just last week.
00:22 What do you think about this new climate agreement?
00:24 Does it not go far enough?
00:26 It does not go far enough.
00:27 It is progress.
00:29 That's for sure. It's a step in the right direction,
00:31 but it's not the big leap that we need.
00:33 And that was possible because we followed the negotiations
00:37 and much stronger wording was on the table.
00:40 And as you said, we had more than two thirds of all countries
00:44 backing very clear language to phase out fossil fuels.
00:47 And this is the way to go.
00:49 So the text does not refer clearly to this phasing out,
00:53 but for the first time in 30 years of climate talk history,
00:55 it does for the first time mention fossil fuels.
00:58 Is that a big victory unto itself?
01:00 It is definitely.
01:01 We needed to have fossil fuels in there because what we realized is that
01:06 just focusing on cutting emissions, that is the demand, is not sufficient.
01:10 We also need to cut production, the supply of fossil fuels.
01:14 So it's very important that fossil fuels, the main driver of climate change,
01:18 are now specifically mentioned.
01:20 However, they came up with this transitioning away.
01:24 I would say it's the start of or it's the beginning of the end
01:28 of fossil fuels, so that's important.
01:30 But it would have been better to give a clear direction, because, of course,
01:34 what we need is urgent action now.
01:36 The objective is actually to get to net zero in 2050.
01:40 It seems far away, but it actually starts now.
01:42 And so what we must ensure now is that production goes down and not up.
01:47 And unfortunately, the agreement doesn't provide enough clarity for that.
01:54 But we're counting on all of these countries.
01:57 So more than 130 countries that were very clear, that agreed with science,
02:01 that said we need to phase out fossil fuels because now we need to
02:05 obviously move to implementation.
02:08 And this is where their steer would be very important.
02:10 You've also said that now the door is left wide open for carbon
02:15 capture technology, which, in your words, is a total mirage.
02:19 Tell me about that.
02:20 Yes, this is another weakness of the text.
02:23 It actually leaves loopholes and distractions away from the main objective
02:27 that needs to be phased out of fossil fuels.
02:29 And one is the carbon capture technology.
02:32 So I am this technology, first of all, is extremely expensive.
02:39 It's not effective yet and it will only have marginal impact.
02:42 So it's it it shouldn't look as if thanks to that technology, we can
02:47 basically go about our business as usual.
02:51 We cannot we must reduce and and
02:55 eventually phase out the production of fossil fuels.
02:58 And this is where the text is not sufficiently clear.
03:01 I also want to say this technology is extremely expensive.
03:05 And this is even more
03:07 the mention of it or the place, the room given in the agreement
03:12 is is is more the shocking because
03:15 we lack funding for renewable investments.
03:19 And we also lack funding, for instance, for adaptation.
03:21 You mentioned the small island nations.
03:25 They urgently need more support.
03:27 In recent years, actually, funding for adaptation decreased.
03:31 So we cannot talk about expensive technology that is probably just
03:36 getting us on the off the track.
03:38 We need to invest the money where we really need it.
03:41 That's interesting, because I think for many countries, this notion
03:43 of carbon capture technology is actually something that many that speaks to many
03:47 of them, and that's something that they would like to go to.
03:49 That's interesting to get your your point of view.
03:51 Now, you were at the climate talks in Dubai.
03:53 What's it what's it like there?
03:54 How do the different committees go about hammering out these kinds of deals?
03:57 And where are the problems?
03:59 It's very busy.
04:02 It's a U.N.
04:03 negotiation, so all the countries are there, which is very important.
04:06 I think it's important that there's an inclusive process
04:09 that countries like the small island nations or very poor countries
04:13 are actually being heard, which is not the case if we look at negotiations
04:17 at the G20, for instance.
04:19 So that's important.
04:20 There are real negotiations happening and on a lot of tracks.
04:24 So I was just mentioning financing that got a little bit less attention today.
04:29 But there were different tracks of negotiations here.
04:31 And I think what is also important, that civil society is there.
