00:00 Now, this is the first of its kind deal to avert the worst effects of climate change.
00:04 But the language is weaker than the quote phasing out of fossil fuels,
00:08 which more than 100 countries had been lobbying for in Dubai.
00:12 We're going to talk more about that now with Frédérique Roder.
00:15 Frédérique, welcome.
00:16 You're vice president of global policy and advocacy for the NGO Global Citizen.
00:21 You were in Dubai just last week.
00:23 What do you think about this new climate agreement?
00:25 Does it not go far enough?
00:26 It does not go far enough.
00:28 It is progress, that's for sure.
00:30 It's a step in the right direction, but it's not the big leap that we need.
00:34 And that was possible because we followed the negotiations
00:37 and much stronger wording was on the table.
00:41 And as you said, we had more than two thirds of all countries backing
00:45 very clear language to phase out fossil fuels.
00:47 And this is the way to go.
00:50 So the text does not refer clearly to this phasing out,
00:53 but for the first time in 30 years of climate talk history,
00:56 it does, for the first time, mention fossil fuels.
00:59 Is that a big victory unto itself?
01:01 It is definitely.
01:02 We needed to have fossil fuels in there because what we realized is that
01:06 just focusing on cutting emissions, that is the demand, is not sufficient.
01:11 We also need to cut production, the supply of fossil fuels.
01:14 So it's very important that fossil fuels, the main driver of climate change,
01:18 are now specifically mentioned.
01:21 However, they came up with this transitioning away.
01:25 I would say it's the start of or it's the beginning of the end of fossil fuels.
01:29 So that's important.
01:30 But it would have been better to give a clear direction
01:33 because, of course, what we need is urgent action now.
01:37 The objective is actually to get to net zero in 2050.
01:41 It seems far away, but it actually starts now.
01:43 And so what we must ensure now is that production goes down and not up.
01:48 And unfortunately, the agreement doesn't provide enough clarity for that.
01:55 But we're counting on all of these countries,
01:57 so more than 130 countries that were very clear, that agreed with science,
02:02 that said we need to phase out fossil fuels because now we need to
02:06 obviously move to implementation.
02:08 And this is where their steer would be very important.
02:11 You've also said that now the door is left wide open for carbon capture technology,
02:17 which, in your words, is a total mirage.
02:19 Tell me about that.
02:21 Yes, this is another weakness of the text.
02:24 It actually leaves loopholes and distractions away from the main objective
02:28 that needs to be phased out of fossil fuels.
02:30 And one is the carbon capture technology.
02:32 So I am this technology, first of all, is extremely expensive.
02:39 It's not effective yet, and it will only have marginal impact.
02:43 So it's it it shouldn't look as if thanks to that technology,
02:47 we can basically go about our business as usual.
02:52 We cannot we must reduce and and
02:55 eventually phase out the production of fossil fuels.
02:59 And this is where the text is not sufficiently clear.
03:02 I also want to say this technology is extremely expensive,
03:06 and this is even more
03:07 the mention of it or the place, the room given in the agreement
03:13 is is is more the shocking because
03:15 we lack funding for renewable investments.
03:19 And we also lack funding, for instance, for adaptation.
03:22 You mentioned the small island nations.
03:25 They urgently need more support.
03:28 In recent years, actually, funding for adaptation decreased.
03:32 So we cannot talk about expensive technology
03:35 that is probably just getting us on the off the track.
03:38 We need to invest the money where we really need it.
03:41 That's interesting, because I think for many countries,
03:43 this notion of carbon capture technology is actually something that many
03:46 that speaks to many of them, and that's something that they would like to go to.
03:49 That's interesting to get your your point of view.
03:51 Now you were at the climate talks in Dubai.
03:54 What's it what's it like there?
03:55 How do the different committees go about hammering out these kinds of deals
03:58 and where are the problems?
03:59 It's very busy.
04:02 It's a UN negotiation.
04:04 So all the countries are there, which is very important.
04:07 I think it's important that there's an inclusive process
04:09 that countries like the small island nations or very poor countries
04:14 are actually being heard, which is not the case
04:16 if we look at negotiations at the G20, for instance.
04:19 So that's important.
04:20 There are real negotiations happening and on a lot of tracks.
04:25 So I was just mentioning financing that got a little bit less attention today.
04:29 But there were different tracks of negotiations here.
04:32 And I think what is also important that civil society is there.
04:35 Frederic, I'm just going to jump in because John Kerry is speaking in Dubai.
04:38 Let's listen to what he has to say.
04:39 And we'll come back to you just after.
04:41 Two and a half years ago, Xi Jinping and I met in Shanghai
04:44 in the middle and even early stages of COVID
04:47 in order to try to reenergize the bilateral engagement
04:52 to address the climate crisis during this critical decade.
04:55 In Glasgow, with a great deal of back and forth
05:01 in the weeks leading up and months leading up,
05:04 we agreed to take concrete mitigation actions in parallel
05:11 and to establish a working group to carry out pragmatic cooperation.
05:16 Most recently, we released the Sunnylands statement,
05:21 which addressed both of the national actions of the two countries,
05:26 such as agreement to accelerate renewables deployment
05:31 to substitute for fossil fuels,
05:33 and the elements that we both considered we should be included
05:37 in the global stocktake here in Dubai.
05:40 We both hope and are pleased that we think our joint work
05:46 not only advanced our respective national efforts,
05:49 but also reflected at the COP in many ways
05:53 throughout the creating of momentum and providing substantive ideas.
05:58 And indeed, we met periodically throughout the time here
06:03 in order to try to make sure that we both felt
06:07 we could come up with an agreement that could be supported broadly.
06:09 In the case of COP28, the contribution included, among other things,
06:14 our agreement to submit 2035 national determined contributions
06:21 that are economy-wide and cover all greenhouse gases,
06:26 which is critical to getting the kind of mitigation effort we need in the future.
06:31 And also, we wanted to encourage others to do the same thing.
06:36 The Paris Agreement and the global stocktake
06:39 both stress the importance of developing and updating long-term strategies
06:46 in order to reduce emissions and enhance resilience.
06:50 Two years ago, the United States and China agreed to both submit updates
06:56 to our long-term strategies by the Glasgow COP.
07:00 We did exactly that.
07:02 And today, we are announcing our mutual intention
07:07 to again revisit and update long-term strategies going forward.
07:12 So we just wanted to highlight that,
07:15 and I wanted a chance to thank Xie Zhenhua for the efforts we've made together.
07:21 Thank you.
07:21 (Chinese translation)
07:36 We were just listening a moment ago to the U.S. climate envoy John Kerry
07:39 speaking there in Dubai,
07:41 talking about long-term strategies that the U.S. is trying to negotiate
07:44 with the UN and China.
07:45 I've got Frédéric Roder on the set with me as well.
07:47 Thank you so much, Frédéric, for staying with us.
07:50 When you hear John Kerry talk about these long-term strategies,
07:53 particularly with major polluters like China, what do you think?
07:56 Yeah, the two biggest polluters, the two biggest emitters.
08:00 Yes, 2035 is very good, but actually action must start now.
08:06 And we need already to make massive progress before 2030, not 2035.
08:14 And this must include, for instance, to end any new coal power plants.
08:20 Which is not in the text.
08:22 So there's much more work to do here.
08:25 The other thing that I expect the U.S. to do is to step up on the financing front,
08:31 which they haven't over the last few years.
08:34 They are the big laggards when it comes to providing financial support
08:38 to poorer countries and small island development nations.
08:41 Frédéric, thank you so much for coming in to speak to us today.
08:44 Frédéric Roder, the Vice President, Global Policy and Advocacy for Global Citizens.
08:48 Thank you very much.
