00:00 Supreme Court, Civilian Military Court trial, a bench of 6 members was formed, Justice Tariq
00:09 Masood was leading it, the decision of 23rd October, you may remember, Supreme Court, that
00:16 they had declared the Civilian Military Court trial as a black death, they said that the
00:21 Civilian trial should be held in the Civilian Court only, but the decision that was made
00:31 today, the decision of 23rd October, it has been declared as a black death, now the Civilian
00:35 trial will be held in the Military Court, there were 6 members in the bench, the decision
00:38 was made in a 5-1 ratio, Justice Misrat Halali Sahiba has given her opinion against it,
00:43 the whole matter, what is it, why this decision has been made, what is the reason behind it,
00:51 how will this case proceed, we will talk about it in detail, Hafiz Edhan Sahib is with us,
00:55 he is a senior lawyer of the Supreme Court, but first of all we will go to our reporter
00:58 Raja, how was this hearing in the Supreme Court, how long was this hearing and how was the
01:04 decision made, yes, Araya Mohsin Sahib, viewers, a little clarification, this decision has
01:09 been suspended, it has been declared as a black death, when it will be finalized, the
01:14 hearing will be held again, Araya Mohsin Sahib, tell us, when this bench was started, what
01:19 were the circumstances, were there any objections from the petitioners, and after that the decision
01:25 was made, you were present there, yes, see, first of all, the decision of the Supreme Court
01:32 was a decision of the Supreme Court, it was a decision of the Supreme Court, it has been
01:39 suspended, but it has been suspended on a constitutional basis, the proceedings regarding
01:44 the civilians in the military courts can be carried out, but it has been stopped from
01:48 a final decision, from any military court decision, until the time the appeals in the
01:52 Supreme Court of Pakistan are under question, and the appeals that will be submitted in
01:57 the third week of January, have been told by the Supreme Court of Pakistan that they
02:02 will be kept, today when the hearing started, the petitioners objected to the bench, the
02:08 advocate said that our bench is formed, it seems that there is some disturbance in the
02:18 line, there is some disturbance in the line, the interesting thing was that the people
02:27 who objected, they were not able to get up, let us try again to contact Araya Mohsin
02:31 Sahib, Hafiz Ehsan Sahib is present with us, you are also present in the court, yes, I
02:37 was present, so tell us some details, that now the decision has been made, now some people
02:45 want to know what is the basis of the motion, because is it unprecedented that the decision
02:51 of the five member bench was made on 23rd October, it is obvious that it has not yet
02:57 come to a detailed judgment, so it is unprecedented that the detailed judgment has not yet come,
03:01 so this whole matter has been extended further, in the name of Allah, our brother Khawar, as
03:05 you said in the intro, and as you said about the basis, we will contact Mohsin Sahib again
03:10 and then we will come to you, yes, continue, see the objections that the Chief Justice
03:16 Parikh Masood has made to them, that tell us who has an objection, on this they will
03:21 be told that the former Chief Justice, who was also a candidate in the central case,
03:26 the former Chief Justice Jawad Asqawaja has objected, on this Chief Justice Parikh Masood
03:30 said that Jawad Asqawaja has made a decision that after the objection, the decision to
03:35 remove the bench from the bench, and I have made this decision that I will not separate
03:41 myself from the bench, and at the same time, he also said in his remarks, when he repeatedly
03:47 objected, Lateef Khosa said that we have an objection on the bench, and you sit down,
03:53 the case, as the Chief Justice said, so should I stand up and listen to the case, this was
03:59 the dialogue between the two lawyers, Banishtar Atul Rajasthan and Lateef Khosa, and Justice
04:08 Musharraf, what was the difference of opinion on this, that this is a decision of 5-1, see
04:16 this 5-1 was a larger bench, Justice Musharraf has objected to this, and Justice Musharraf
04:24 said that when the Chief Justice Parikh Masood said that where will be the trial of terrorists,
04:32 then Justice Musharraf said that you are comparing political figures, they are sitting with them,
04:40 and Justice Musharraf said that those who are going to be released, why are they not
04:46 giving bail, these were the remarks that Justice Musharraf said, and the bench has been removed
04:53 from the bench, and this was a brief discussion, and after that this decision was preserved,
05:00 and it was said by the bench head that we will decide on this case today, which has been
05:06 initiated by the Attorney General, after giving permission for the trial, then after a short
05:11 time this bench came back, and he came and gave this brief statement.
05:14 Thank you very much, Mr. Muraiya Mohsin, for all the details.
05:16 Yes, Mr. Hafiz Irfan, the question that is being raised is that let's wait a little,
05:20 I think you were present at the remarks of J.J. Sahiban, that should we wait a little
05:25 so that a detailed judgment comes, instead of finding a solution to all the problems in
05:30 one go, it will come again, then Mushood, obviously the final trial will be in the military courts,
05:37 it has been added to the final decision.
05:40 Mr. Lahir Ahmad, thank you, let's see this in a little context, then you will understand.
05:46 When these petitions were filed under Article 184.3, then the basic objective was that the
05:51 people involved in 9th May, their civilians, their trials should not come under the military
05:56 courts, and they should go under the regular criminal courts, on this basis these petitions
06:02 were filed.
06:03 Now when these petitions were filed, then before that our practice and procedure act
06:08 was passed by the parliament in April 2023, which was suspended by the Supreme Court's
06:13 9th Rukni bench, and after that the matter continued to linger, and when this incident
06:18 of 9th May came, then the Chief Justice of Pakistan, who was the first, made a 9th Rukni
06:25 bench on it, in which the present Chief Justice was also included, and today's judges were
06:30 also included, so both of them separated themselves from the fact that as long as you do not decide
06:35 on the practice and procedure act, we will not sit in it.
06:38 After that when the proceedings started, then another 7th judge, Justice Mansoor Ali Shah
06:43 was also objected to it, and he also separated himself, then these 6 judges remained, and
06:49 after 6, the Chief Justice of Pakistan, he gave assurance to an attorney general in June,
06:55 after that the proceedings were almost silent and adjourned, and when the Chief Justice
07:00 left, then the matter of the practice and procedure act was taken up, and the parliament's
07:05 legislation was said by the Supreme Court of Pakistan, that it does not affect the independence
07:09 of judiciary, and if it facilitates, or the discretion of the Chief Justice is structured,
07:15 then as a Chief Justice I have no objection, and all those petitions were dismissed, and
07:20 a decision was made on it.
07:22 After that, when the decision of the practice and procedure was present, then on 23rd October
07:27 a decision was made, and in that decision, the thing that was going on was 9th May.
07:33 But the day this decision was made, then hurriedly, a decision was made, and those two amendments
07:40 were 1967 21(d) and section 59(4), which are protected under Article 268 of our Constitution,
07:47 which at that time our framers validated, and after that the 1973 Constitution, in its
07:53 Article 8 and sub-article 3, there is an exception, that you cannot make these laws ultra-viris
07:58 of the Constitution, and after that our Supreme Court, for the last 50 years, endorsed these
08:04 things.
08:05 But the Supreme Court of Pakistan, on 23rd, made a decision from two lines, and they said
08:10 that these two amendments are ultra-viris of the Constitution, and there was no reasoning
08:14 in it, and four-one judgement was given.
08:16 After that, in the practice and procedure act, this is the first case of Pakistan, on which
08:21 an intra-court appeal was made, on which a larger bench was made, and one of six members
08:25 was made.
08:26 Now, there are two aspects to this.
08:28 One aspect is that its reasoning has not yet come, and it should have been that if you
08:33 are making a law ultra-viris of the Constitution, which the Supreme Court has validated many
08:37 times, has done constitutional protection, then its reasoning should have come along
08:42 with it, and if it is not with it, then it should have come within two weeks, because
08:47 it was a period of 30 days.
08:49 Now, when the appeals were filed after that, and it happened that after 9th of May, it
08:56 went much further, and it went that you said that the laws, under the military laws, there
09:01 was a whole paradigm of national security, you said that it is ultra-viris of the Constitution,
09:06 which resulted in the effect that a vacuum related to national security came in your
09:11 country.
09:12 Now, when a bench was made on it, now I will tell you that what happens is that when you
09:16 go to the first court as a right of appeal, that your decision has come, the Constitution
09:22 or law provides you an appeal, then generally the courts suspend the judgment in this thing
09:28 that it is your first appeal, we will hear again, and that further strengthens the argument
09:32 because when the Supreme Court or the High Court has already decided that thing, the
09:37 identical.
09:38 Now, in this issue, it was that your parliament was also present, legislative competency
09:43 was also decided by the Supreme Court, due process of law was also done, and from that
09:47 larger bench, this was 4, 1 to 23, from that larger bench, which was of 5 members, 17 members
09:54 were also there, they were validating this legislation and that process.
09:58 So, today, what the Supreme Court of Pakistan has done, the suspension has also been done
10:03 not of the reasoning judgment, it has been done of that short order, in which there were
10:07 two lines.
10:08 Absolutely right.
10:09 [Hindi]
