- 3 years ago
Do professional golfers hit the ball too far? Do the game's guardians need to do something to the golf ball to control ever-increasing distances off the tee? In this video, Dan Parker, Neil Tappin and Joel Tadman debate whether the potential introduction of the model local rule affecting golf balls is a good thing for the game and also come up with some alternate solutions to how the game's governing bodies can control distance.
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00:00 Of all the different levers you can pull to help this particular problem
00:04 He thought that was absolutely immense. A silly one I would bring in is limit gym time
00:09 So max two hours of gym per week for Roy McIlroy. It looks like bifurcation kind of really already exists
00:16 Okay, right let's chat about one of the hottest topics in golf at the minute from an equipment perspective
00:22 anyway
00:22 specifically the golf ball and this model local rule that the RNA and the USGA are proposing for the start of January
00:29 2026 which will see professional golfers in elite level tournaments using a
00:34 different golf ball and sort of limited
00:37 Performance golf ball in these events now Neil
00:41 Could you clarify what the sort of parameters are here what their testing has been and what they might be limiting specifically?
00:47 Yeah, that effectively what they're doing is when they're they're testing the golf balls. They're gonna up the swing speed
00:53 They're upping it for for this purpose to 127 miles per hour and setting it
00:59 So that it has a launch characteristics of I think it's 11 degrees and two thousand two hundred rpm
01:04 And when it's set to those with those
01:07 Parameters the ball cannot go further than 317 yards
01:12 So and what they're saying is that it's it it will be a reduction for the longest hitters of
01:18 Around about 14 or 15 yards. So that's what you're looking at
01:22 You're looking at the likes of Rory McIlroy being reined in by 14 or 15 yards for other golfers who are less fast
01:29 It will be I guess incrementally less than that the difference. Thank you
01:34 Good clarification on that because that's something we have to understand before we get into this debate
01:37 And now one of the biggest problems is what this would do is bring bifurcation into golf ie
01:42 Professional golfers using different equipment to amateurs and what we would use which very few professional sports do I think a lot of people aren't
01:50 particularly
01:51 Peen on so I don't know where to start this debate really because it's it's the distance debate, isn't it?
01:56 And it's do we have a problem with professional golfers hitting the ball very far which they are doing
02:01 I
02:03 Hate very few things in life
02:05 Aston Villa kidney beans in Chile don't like those things would say I hate them, but it's a very strong word
02:10 However, I hate this proposal. I really really think it is just sort of backward
02:16 There are hundreds of things that golf that needs to be fixed in golf at the minute. This is outside of those 100 things
02:23 Golf's in a good spot at the minute. I don't know why we're toying with this specific part, but
02:29 Joel let's talk about distance. Do you think it's a problem in the game?
02:33 because I don't even think this is if Roy McIlroy as he just has done at the
02:37 Matchplay Austin hit a 359 yard drive to 10 feet. That's brilliant
02:43 I want to watch that and he's earned the right to do that by having such good golf swing and spending time in the gym
02:48 So do you think this is an issue basically the distance debate before we come on to this the ball bit specifically?
02:53 It isn't a problem in the game. I
02:55 think if
02:57 Distances continue as they are it it could get to a point where it gets a bit ridiculous
03:04 I take your point about Rory
03:06 Yeah, we saw Bryson as well at Bay Hill hitting that shot over the lake, you know and these rules, you know from 2026 onwards
03:12 Essentially mean we're not going to see something like that, which I think is a massive, you know negative for the viewing experience
03:19 We're often talking about the product that people are watching and how it's kind of not as good as it used to be and with
03:24 These moments not happening. I think the product is therefore kind of diluted and it's definitely not as exciting
03:31 I kind of I am a bit on the fence in preparation for this
03:35 Podcast I wrote down a list of pros and cons for this rule
03:39 I have to say the cons were a lot longer than the pros like I get I get the concept of
03:46 Not affecting the recreational game. That's really important like amateur golf is in a really good position
03:51 This implementation the idea they've come up with is probably the easiest to implement at local level
03:58 It you know, they obviously had some problems when they went down looking at the golf club route
04:02 They had to if they wanted to reduce the sweet spot
04:05 They would go into three wood territory and then that was actually three woods would then be longer than drivers
04:10 So this is this is obviously the best solution on table in their opinion
04:14 I actually got a different solution, which I think would be better and easier and cheaper for everybody
04:19 But you know
04:31 It's it's so it yeah, there's a lot of reasons why the bulk of the golf balls going but people are hitting it further
04:36 It's not just the golf ball the technology in golf club. It's you know players generally on tour. They're a lot taller
04:42 They're younger. They're fitter fairways are faster rough shorter
04:46 Oh, yeah, launch monitors are becoming more prevalent people are understanding how they hit it further
04:50 And this this rule kind of covers all those areas. I just think when you look at the data
04:56 Like the prevalence or the the emphasis on distance when it comes to people winning golf tournaments
05:04 It's actually not as high as it as people probably think it is
05:07 So that if you've seen Mark Brody published a report
05:11 Obviously Mark Brody being the pioneer of strokes gained and there's some interesting findings
05:16 Within that that suggests that actually distance isn't as important at winning golf tournaments on the PJ tour as people probably think is
05:24 so let me reel off a couple of
05:26 facts that that might
05:28 It's interesting so for example drivings contribution to winning tournaments has changed
05:37 by less than 2% since
05:39 2004 and
05:42 Winners in the week they win
05:45 Gain 18% of their scoring advantage from driving which has changed by less than 2%
05:50 Which they which Mark Brody deems as statistically insignificant?
05:55 so
05:57 And the final point I would make is that Martin slumbers
06:01 During that press conference, which was a great press company
06:04 I don't know if you if you sat in on that with them the USGA in the RNA
06:07 He said something along the lines of the balance between skill and technology has got out of kilter
06:13 And I don't I don't agree with that
06:16 I think being able to hit the ball a long way is a skill and the good thing about this model local rule is
06:22 The longer hitters will still be the longer hitters. So they still have their advantage
06:26 but what he says I think he what he's essentially saying is that
06:32 Golf has become a bit of a driver wedge game and that the skill of hitting a long iron
06:36 Is becoming less important actually when you look at the data one final stat for you is that
06:44 The number of approach shots on the PJ tour hit between 50 150 yards has actually reduced since 2004
06:53 So I think that's their Joel backing up my hatred of this. Thank you
06:58 Yeah, I think but on the face of it you look at some of the hitting distances like average ball speed average distance
07:04 Yes, it is increasing and scoring average is reducing slightly
07:08 but when you look at the effects of driving on winning tournaments, it's not as
07:13 As prevalent as it as it probably people think is a great case there Joel now Neil
07:20 I know you are golf month ease
07:22 voice of reason or
07:23 Perhaps just I think you're going to be able to sort of give us some balance to this because this is a debate
07:27 um before I let you come in here, I'm gonna read out some of Taylor made's response to this so title list and
07:34 Bridgestone also released a statement on this obviously they have a slight vested interest
07:39 but Taylor made said and the key part of their statement for me was
07:43 we believe a large part of golf's appeal is the underlying sense of I can do that too and
07:47 Having the professionals using the same stuff that you can it's actually quite fun and an appealing part of it
07:53 So taking that on board and what and what Joel said, what are your opinions on this model local rule potentially coming into play in?
07:59 2026
08:01 yeah, I
08:03 Take would take what everything that Joel has said there and I wouldn't disagree with any of it much of it
08:08 I and I would I totally get all of the points and particularly the point for me. I think around
08:15 probably the amount of money that would be required to bring this sort of thing in to get all of the manufacturers to
08:22 design it effectively a new golf ball for a very few number of golfers is gonna cost
08:27 Quite a bit of money and then what happens then to the price of the equipment that people have to purchase
08:34 In order to play the game that could potentially have a negative impact, but then I also look at it
08:43 From the perspective of if as Joel said right in the beginning of his bit if they don't do something now
08:51 Where are we gonna be in 20 years time?
08:54 you know it and I don't know whether there is an answer to this question or is an easy answer and I'm not sure that
09:01 the golf ball is the
09:03 that that restricts in the golf ball is the way to do it, but
09:06 one of my
09:09 frustrations I think with professional golf
09:11 Is when you get to a big tournament and you're invested and you're right at the end of it and you're like, oh
09:16 This person has got one shot lead and they've got that 480 yard 18th hole to play which is an absolute beast
09:23 This is gonna be a real test
09:25 They are now so good at hitting the ball a long way and be at handling the pressure
09:30 that they just obliterate that final hole and it's and the amount of times where
09:35 The brutal final hole a big big tournament has been reduced to a driver and a wedge now
09:41 I'm not sure that's the fault of the golf ball. I'm not sure it's the fault of the driver. I think
09:46 That it's so many contributing factors that these players are so good under pressure and you are watching
09:51 The best players in that tournament at the very end of the tournament who are their confidence is high because they're playing really well
09:58 They're hitting it miles and they've reduced a really difficult hole to a driver and a middle short iron and made it look dead easy
10:05 and and then the other parts of the proposal that kind of I raise an eyebrow at was the
10:13 Relatively small amount that they were looking to roll the golf ball back
10:16 Yeah, just restricting more for instance
10:18 Let's say Rory whoever it might be by 15 yards just didn't seem like an awful lot to me
10:24 But having said all of that
10:26 That I said I do understand and I do get that what the the ruling bodies are saying about
10:33 protecting the game and trying to
10:36 ensure that they have a really watchable tour product for people because that's hasn't rolled to play and growing the game and
10:43 Ensuring that the balance of skill is right that you've got players hitting all different shots
10:47 So if we could get to a point where the players are not hitting again, this is another one. Sorry
10:52 This is a this is time
10:53 One of my bug beds
10:54 Professional golf is that so many of them here and a baby fade off the tee because that's the safest shot
10:59 Yeah, I'd love to see a bit more. I would love to see a bit more creativity now. I don't know how you go about
11:04 Getting that it's really difficult
11:06 But someone like Rory or Justin Thomas or Jordan speed John Rahm, whoever it might be that's got all the shots in their locker
11:14 How often do you see them hit all the shots?
11:17 Hmm
11:17 Is that the fault of the the equipment is it the fault of the horses they play?
11:22 Is it the conditions that they're playing in because they're always playing somewhere sunny and nice and warm and is it a pro?
11:27 Is that even a problem?
11:29 With this whole conversation and you both made really good points on either side of the argument, I think but I don't
11:36 There might people watching and listening. Let us know. I don't have a problem with the distance good for them
11:41 You know who dos maybe the solution if we don't want to see tournaments one at 25 and apart
11:47 I mean, is that a problem? I don't really mind about that either good for you
11:50 69 instead of 72. There you go. Something like that. Let's grow the rough up. I don't know
11:55 We've seen obviously Augustas move the 13th tee back a good chunk
11:59 I can't remember the top my head what 40 50 yards to make that par 5 a bit tougher
12:03 Is that the answer is there a problem at all with distance? I really don't mind it too much
12:08 Joel I do now you've you peaked my interest when you said you've got some sort of solution for all of us and if anyone
12:16 Yes, you're on our own. They are watching
12:18 You're welcome, but what's about to come? Come on Joel help us out here with some common-sense thinking
12:23 I mean, I'm sure they I'm sure they considered this but I
12:28 Don't I struggle to see a negative of this. So my my solution would be to reduce tee height
12:34 Yeah, you have mentioned
12:38 You know whether it's an inch or whatever it might be because I think the reason
12:45 one of the main reasons why golfers are hitting the ball further is because they're able to spin it less and
12:50 The reason they're of spin it less is because they can hit up on the ball a lot more and it's been proven by launch
12:56 One that says that that is one of the key ingredients to hitting the ball further if you lower the tee height
13:01 So whatever it might be. I'll see they need to do some testing etc. It would
13:06 Immediately reduce the ability of players to that either their attack angle could become a bit more level
13:12 Maybe not up or maybe not down, but they'd be more level
13:15 Spin would increase the distance potential would come down. So I mean it they would need to be possibly quite
13:22 Dramatic to have an impact but that reduction in spin and maybe maybe that wouldn't have a big enough impact on distance
13:29 But it would certainly be a really easy
13:32 Thing to implement in the short term that would knock off a few yards and it could be investigated further
13:38 Okay playing devil's advocate, how do you please that I think you have a person on every tee box at a tournament with a
13:46 Small measuring tape and they just gently come up as it's heated up. Yeah, you're in you're in the margins
13:52 They just have a maximum tee length that you're allowed to use and that's that's what goes in the bag. Yeah
13:56 Yeah, I mean it's very interesting idea. Yeah, I like it. But again, I think this was to Neil's point earlier about even what?
14:03 This model local rule is is suggesting now is it's only it's only taking what 15 yards off 10 yards off
14:10 And you said there's your it might not take that much off
14:12 Really? So why why are we bothering and now circled back to the why do we care about how far golf is hit at the minute?
14:20 Did you actually think it's bad for the game either? We look that golfers are hitting it really far. That's what that's
14:25 Why I don't know and I see your point early in a love everything becomes driver wedge. Well, that's right now. I don't I
14:30 Love it. I was watching the you reference the world match play
14:34 they play that par 4 over water that they a lot of them can hit and
14:38 The shots that they hit on that hole are were ridiculous like the amount of people that are hitting
14:44 Shots that are coming in softly and landing and stopping quite close to the flag. That's amazing to watch
14:49 It's fantastic to watch and if anything, that's the sort of stuff that
14:53 That's gonna engage
14:56 Viewers, isn't it? That's the sort of stuff that makes a nice clip on Instagram
15:00 We're recording this the day after
15:05 the Thursday of the match play and
15:07 I didn't see Rory shot live
15:09 I woke up this morning on Twitter 1.5 million views already of that shot here into the 18th today
15:14 That moves the needle for the PGA Tour that gets people interested in golf
15:19 Justin Thomas said we don't make the the net smaller for basketball players. We didn't make Usain Bolt run in treacle
15:25 This is the beauty of sport is that people are sort of chasing
15:28 The next level being the top 0.1 percent of what they do it if we take that away from golf
15:32 I'm worried it might damage the sport as a whole
15:35 I would just add that I don't envy the RNA and USGA on this and I think that that is a really difficult
15:43 topic to figure out a solution for and
15:46 it is incumbent on them to make sure that they're up with you know, upholding all of the
15:51 the sort of traditional values of the sport and
15:55 so I
15:57 Don't want to criticize them too much. No, it's very understand where I have to do something
16:02 It feels like I did but do they have to do something?
16:06 I think that in 20 years time when you look down the road you might well look back to this point and think to yourself
16:12 Why didn't they act? Well, yeah now so I can I can sort of understand it
16:16 I'm not sure of all the different levers you can pull to help this particular problem. I
16:21 Just don't know. It's it's it's I'm not as
16:25 Strident on this as so many people are on social that people like you down and come out go. I hate it
16:30 I'm not I don't maybe fit into that box. But at the same time, I'm not 100 sure it is right, but then I
16:37 Look at the alternatives that what Joel's just said is interesting
16:41 I quite like I like that also like the idea of reducing maybe the number of clubs they have in the bag
16:45 Just take a couple of clubs out. Yeah, don't mind that
16:48 I love this a lot, isn't it on your lever pulling analogy there of what they can pull to help this situation
16:54 I would pull the lever that grows the rough up a bit that makes courses a bit tougher
16:58 I don't see why that's so if you do miss a fairway you stuffed
17:00 But yeah, it's perhaps it's debate Joel coming from the fact that we are worried about what might happen in 20
17:08 We're worried about the thing doesn't happen yet and that all of a sudden a 400-yard carry becomes
17:12 Start right that is that thing where she's coming from is our sort of anxiety about the future
17:17 Yeah, like definitely I think if we keep going as we are
17:21 The distances that people are hitting it will be unsustainable on on the golf courses that they're playing like say for example
17:28 Drive a distance on holes where players would use a driver has increased by eight point two yards per decade
17:35 So clearly there is a you know, we continue that that's not going to be sustainable. Something needs to be done. I agree with you
17:41 I do think distant gains could be better mitigated through course set up and there's so many ways they could do that whether it's
17:48 Growing the rough up making the fairways narrower the green smaller plaking placing more of a premium on hitting the fairways
17:56 Ultimately, we need to stop making the golf courses longer because make longer golf courses rewards longer hitters
18:03 Yeah, yeah an increased emphasis on driving distance. So like a bit counterintuitive actually, isn't it?
18:09 Popping that tea back on Augusta, for example
18:11 It does feel like these changes are kind of attacking the ways that the best players in the world are playing
18:18 Some of the most iconic holes in golf and you know
18:21 The powers that be are thinking are they they shouldn't be knocking the ball on degree on the 18th. That's in Andrews or the 10th
18:27 the Riviera
18:28 But actually that's just the evolution that's just change
18:31 That's just what happens and a lot of that is down to other things like the wind or the firmness of the fairways and things
18:38 like that
18:39 So really only kind of applies to a very small percentage of golf courses that have ambitions to host
18:45 Elite or high level professional tournament a small number of golfers. Yeah
18:50 Yeah, and and if you think about it like it rolling about the ball doesn't really open it up to more courses being able to
18:59 Host these events because they don't we have the money or the space or the infrastructure around it to host events
19:05 Anyway, so again, it's another reason to think why are we doing this?
19:08 It feels like a storm in a teacup of the 1% of all of golf's existence
19:13 I the elite courses in the elite golfers and we're chatting about this now
19:16 whereas I feel like
19:19 Perhaps a new fan to the game who watch full swing
19:21 Documentary Netflix over February is now sat watching the match play and just loving what they're seeing and not worrying about this and just enjoying
19:28 The sport and the innovation that's coming from it
19:30 Yeah, when I showed when I when I showed my son that shot that Bryson hit that you talked about before when he cleared the
19:37 Lake, oh, he's giving it the old big. Yeah. Yeah. He thought that was absolutely immense and that's right
19:43 And it's hard to disagree and then it was also one of the right cut where he just hit the ball on a totally different
19:47 Line to anybody else. So it's just like well, that's just gone straight to the
19:50 Deep cabbage and it just appeared from nowhere on the middle
19:54 I think at that same tournament he topped a hybrid off the tee in the final round, you know
19:58 And that was great to see he was still fallible, you know, and that's the beauty of the sport
20:02 Can I just add one one small point something that came in yesterday from our cost was looking at how?
20:08 Amateur distances have changed or haven't changed over the last five years and obviously they've got pretty pretty big data set
20:16 Yeah, I think they looked at I think it was 20 million drives hit between 2018 and 2022 and for men driving distance
20:26 Basically for men and for women driving distance has gone down but only fractionally so it's gone down over that period
20:32 It is very very similar to what it was interesting though
20:35 it is in it is really interesting and part of the excitement of golf is hitting the ball a long way and
20:42 Part of the skill in golf is hitting the long ball away whilst keeping it on the golf course
20:47 But then
20:51 You know, it's fascinating
20:53 In this chat, which I've my eyes a little bit and maybe I'm off the hate fence and onto the dislike fence for now
20:59 but it is there still
21:01 The RNA and the USG have to look after the game and there has to still be this limit between skill and technology
21:06 Doesn't know that we have to acknowledge it and not poopoo this too much as perhaps I am and dismiss it because it is a problem
21:12 It's about how we go about it. I a silly one
21:16 I would bring in is limit gym time
21:17 So I max two hours of gym per week for Roy McIlroy as if everyone looked like me sort of 511 and not that heavy
21:24 wet through
21:26 You're not hitting the ball much further. Are you so let's limit the gym time. So I'm going to go for
21:30 One final point go on Joel rapper stuff is that I don't agree with the whole
21:36 Our bifurcation is bad like unification is good for the game because actually, you know
21:41 If you look at the equipment a lot of the players are using a lot of it is stuff that you people can't buy at
21:47 Retail the amount of tour only clubs out there. It's like bifurcation kind of really already exists the amount
21:53 You know, you look at preview on proven X
21:55 I think there's 20 different versions on the USGA conforming list whether it's left dot left - all the different versions
22:01 I know left - has recently been put into retail, but I think there's a lot more
22:06 tour only stuff
22:09 that's used by the world's best players that people probably know about and that
22:14 Bifurcation does to a degree already exist. So I don't really kind of accept that argument that the ball manufacturer is making
22:20 I was an interesting point and thought about you Joel and also just about just to sort of add to that point
22:25 Joel if the longest players in the world started to hit the ball a bit shorter
22:30 Then would we all feel like we were playing the game more than simple in a more similar way
22:35 than we do currently so the average driving distance for men is
22:41 225.9 and for women is 177
22:45 So that's a massive difference between those numbers and the sort of numbers we're talking about on tour. So they are I mean
22:50 Yes, we're playing the same game, but they are playing a totally different game in terms of how far they hit the ball
22:56 Yeah
22:57 so I so should we
22:59 Get caught up in the whole thing of we're all playing the same sport because it's like well
23:04 They're so much better than we are. They hit the ball so much further than we do. I don't know
23:09 I'm good. I clearly I'm going around in circles on this and I think this this actually encourages further
23:14 Bifurcation because I think was if this model local rule is adopted we'll see manufacturers bringing out
23:20 Lower spinning drivers to try and get the ball going a bit further. So even
23:26 Exactly, they'll always find a way players on tour they have the speed
23:31 To be and the the attack angle to be able to deliver low spin and therefore they cannot for more forgiving heads that gives them
23:37 A bit more playability, but with this ball going shorter
23:40 They're gonna put the touch
23:42 You know give up some of the accuracy in search of getting more distance and a bit more risk and they will be using lower
23:49 Spin drivers, they'll do a lot more practice of striking the middle of the face
23:52 They'll really work on their driving as you say, they'll adapt. We're humans. We adapt
23:56 We just about to say that we're innovative creatures, aren't we? We want to be better
24:00 So maybe the distance you don't want to start for that innovation either. Do you you don't feel like me?
24:07 When I play my PGA 2k 23 game on the PlayStation and my little career man who I made
24:12 You know he hit it
24:14 296 because that's just the way the games programmed at the minute for me and that just if all of a sudden every drivers going
24:19 317 or whatever. I know it'll be different in conditions, but it would just feel
24:23 Unnatural slightly manufactured slightly unreal. I don't know we could talk about this for hours
24:28 I think chaps and I think there's a lot like a lot of things people need to ask themselves
24:32 Really who are watching do you care about how far the pros hit it?
24:35 Do you want to feel like you can do the same thing that pros can do if you know if the equipment is there for you?
24:41 Do you want to see harder golf courses? Do you mind if someone's a 25 under par?
24:45 Do you want to see Roy McIlroy hit green 350 yards out?
24:48 These are the things we have to ask before we worry about this distance thing
24:51 There is a problem and I think we've acknowledged that as well
24:54 What we'd love to hear what you think because we've been chatting away for a while about this now
24:58 Do you care do you want to see this if you've got any other good ideas like perhaps my gym time idea or Joel's perhaps more
25:05 sensible
25:05 Shorting of the tea which I very much liked
25:07 Let us know what you think about that and this debate in general because I think it's got a lot of people
25:12 Talking but I think I about wrap it up this episode of the gear of the week show Joel
25:16 Thank you very much for your insights as always very enjoyable. Always a pleasure
25:20 Neil thank you very much great debating with you this morning. Thank you Dan Cheers. I thank you everyone for watching
25:27 We'll see you next time
25:29 You
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