00:00Kamik for her five minutes of questioning. Thank You Mr. Chairman.
00:06Commissioner Boyle, I'm gonna start with you. I wanted to learn more about your
00:11time as a executive director. You served at least two acting chairs in that
00:18capacity, correct? Yes. And before that you served in two other senior roles, is
00:24that right? I served as general counsel and executive director. Okay. I think we
00:30can both agree those are senior roles. Excuse me? I think we can both agree
00:33those are senior roles. Okay, perfect. Thank you. So it seems that a lot of the
00:37issues and dysfunction that we've heard about today have occurred under your
00:42leadership as executive director. And while I recognize that you were not
00:46acting chair, it makes me wonder how all of this kind of happened under your
00:49watch. So digging into it as part of a review of the 2019 data breach, the
00:55Inspector General made the following finding, quote, the OIG found numerous
00:59examples of problems regarding integrity and ethical values in the
01:03clearinghouse. These problems involve both systematic issues and examples of
01:08individual managers failing to uphold government standards regarding integrity
01:12or ethical values. The most egregious example of a systematic ongoing failure
01:17by agency management to demonstrate a commitment to integrity and ethical
01:21values involved the statements of assurance relevant to the clearinghouse.
01:24Agency officials were grossly negligent at best and lied at worst when they
01:31signed statements of assurance indicating that internal controls
01:35regarding the clearinghouse were in place and operating effectively. So
01:39Commissioner Boyle, how do you account for the IG's characterization of agency
01:44candor? You were the executive director at that time, so what the heck was going
01:48on? Well, thank you for the question. I think at the time of the clearinghouse
01:52disclosure, the agency was forthright in saying that there was a mistake that was
01:59made, a human error. Or multiple? Certainly, certainly. I think there was no
02:05question and the agency was forthright in admitting that. There were numerous
02:10investigations, including by houses of Congress, and we I think were very
02:15forthright in admitting that there were mistakes and we made efforts to correct
02:19those mistakes. And when there was a human error, which is really the source
02:22of the problem that you're talking about, we acted to correct those as best we
02:28could and I certainly did the best I could to the best of my ability. So
02:32we instituted training, we tried to develop some technological solutions and
02:38I understand that there was great concern and I think we were very
02:43forthright in admitting that. And I appreciate taking accountability,
02:48right? But accountability means action. You said that there was technical
02:51training, but if you have people who are outright lying, I mean, my question is
02:56who was fired? I'm not aware that anybody was fired at that time. There
03:01had been open recommendations for some period well after I was executive
03:06director, so I won't account for the last several years, but at that time
03:10there was nobody was fired, but there was certainly training and issue and there
03:17was an attempt to address very openly the problems that we found and nobody
03:24tried to say otherwise. So no one was fired. Did anyone resign? No. Have the
03:30people who have been identified who lied, right, in this particular
03:36investigation, the people identified, have they remained in those positions or
03:40have they gone on to other positions? Let me be clear, I understand you quoted from
03:44the Inspector General's report, I am not aware of anyone lying. I don't think, I am
03:49not aware of anyone lying to me and so I understand that that was his conclusion
03:54and how he characterized it, but I am not aware of anyone lying to me. But I mean,
03:59you understand that this is the frustration that American people have in
04:02general. You're here before this committee asking for a bump in your
04:05budget and yet we're finding through OIG reports where there have been instances
04:13of mischaracterizations, lying, real issues that have truly not been
04:19addressed and I think saying yes, we're taking responsibility, but what is the
04:22action that follows thereafter? I don't think training is enough. I mean, there
04:25has to be real accountability. So I'm curious and as a follow-up, I'd like you
04:29to provide this committee with what has happened to those individuals that
04:33received the training and I want to know if they've moved on into other positions.
04:38There is a saying in Washington, it's called failing up and we tend to see
04:42that when we have problematic people, we tend to move them into other positions.
04:47So I'd be curious to see where those individuals and the roles that they
04:50played that were identified in that OIG report, I want to know where they are now.
04:54Can you provide this committee with that information? Certainly. Again, I will
04:57make clear that they're not under my purview in my current role and I will
05:00have to consult with the chair in terms of... Mr. Chairman, will you provide that
05:04information to this committee? We'll go back and take a look. Obviously, I wasn't
05:09there at the time, so I have to go back and look at the... At some point, if you're
05:12at the top of the ticket, you're right there. You're the head honcho. Buck stops
05:15with you, right? Understood. And I would say you should be able to get that
05:18information. There hasn't been any breach of similar nature since that happened and we've made
05:23sure that that information is protected going forward. So we can look to try and
05:27provide you information. We don't try, we do. So yes, you will provide that
05:31information? We'll provide the information we can find and that's
05:36appropriate, yes. All right. Mr. Chairman, I yield.
05:40The lady yields back. We'll recognize Mr. Cardenas from the great state of California for his five minutes of questioning.
