00:00Can I give you an example please of some evidence that we've heard from Queen Elizabeth Hospital Birmingham
00:04And I want to know if if this kind of information filtered up to you. They had in March 2020
00:1067 ICU beds and they went to April following month to
00:16126 and nearly doubled. Yeah, that meant for them finding out 205 additional doctors. Yeah
00:23429 nurses yeah and an extra 59 actual physical beds
00:28Yeah at a time when they had 25% absence of work. Yeah, what's due to ill health now?
00:33Were you being told not that's actually let me finish, please
00:37Were you being told that's actually what it means if a hospital has to double up its surge capacity
00:43We've got to find vast numbers of staff
00:45Yeah, not only was I being told but I was seeing it. I went to the Queen Elizabeth Hospital in Birmingham
00:52I saw it for myself. So yes, of course
00:56And I
01:00I was I was I was deeply involved for instance in
01:04Trying to hire more doctors and get doctors who had retired back into the workforce in order to try to solve these problems
01:12so
01:13You know
01:13The reason I interrupted is the question gives the impression that I was somehow
01:17Set set sat in an office this whole time
01:20I was out on the ground as much as I could be and and and talking to people about what the real-world
01:25Problems were as well as getting the official advice through paperwork. That's how you lead in a in a crisis as big as this
01:34Can I ask you to just pause for a second?
01:36Some of these questions are not designed to trip you up. Mr. Hancock
01:40I want to understand whether some of the detail that we've now heard did in fact make its way to you
01:46That's all I was asking. Okay, and I'm being emphatic in my response that it's it's not not only did I get it in?
01:53Reports as much as the data was available
01:55But I I chose to go out there and see it myself now
01:59Were you made aware that not everyone who needed an ICU bed got an ICU bed?
02:04Yes in yes in individual cases that happened. Yes
02:09We've heard a number of examples some of which we've provided to you
02:13And I'd just like to take you through some of them for your comments on them if I may right
02:19And
02:20You are aware. I think that on the first day of evidence we heard from mr
02:24Sullivan who told us about his daughter Susie who had Down syndrome and was taken to hospital
02:30Yeah, and she was refused admission to ICU because what was recorded on the notes
02:35well, she had cardiac comorbidities she had a pacemaker and
02:39had Down syndrome and
02:41Did you get reports like that that people were being denied?
02:45ICU care I did get reports like that and I also got reports
02:52about the misuse of
02:57DNR notices as well. I
02:59Come on to that. Well, they're they're all part and parcel of the same thing because it's about
03:04It's about availability of care. Yeah, and if you recall I was also getting advice from the BMA and others that we should
03:13We should have a code of who you should give care to and not and I've come on to that as well
03:18Yes, but what I'm saying is I was deeply involved. Of course, not only did I know these things were happening
03:23I was fighting on behalf of those to whom it was happening
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