- hace 6 meses
En esta emisión del programa Zona Infinito (circa año 2000), el investigador Asdrúbal Acosta analiza el fenómeno OVNI desde una perspectiva técnica y estratégica, compartiendo su experiencia en la ufología experimental y su paso por organismos oficiales.
A continuación, se detallan los puntos clave de su intervención:
- Crítica a la confidencialidad espacial: Acosta cuestiona las declaraciones del astronauta James Lovell (Apolo 13), quien afirmó que no existen pactos de silencio en la NASA.
- Argumento militar: Sostiene que, al ser agencias con componentes militares, los astronautas están sujetos a leyes de seguridad nacional y "Top Secret", cuya transgresión es severamente castigada.
- Cambio de paradigma: Señala que a partir de 1972, el programa espacial estadounidense dejó de buscar bases lunares para centrarse en un "escudo espacial defensivo" bajo el concepto de defensa global planetaria.
Ufología experimental y metodología
A diferencia de la investigación civil tradicional que es "post-evento" (analiza huellas o testigos), Acosta propone la ufología experimental:
- Interacción directa: Utiliza la codificación de señales lumínicas y radioeléctricas para enviar datos matemáticos (como la posición de la Tierra en el sistema solar).
- Comportamiento inteligente: Afirma que los objetos responden a estos estímulos con pulsos de luz repetitivos, lo que denota una voluntad operativa y no un fenómeno natural.
Evidencias y análisis de imágenes
Durante la entrevista, se analizan diversas fotografías:
- Marte y el agua: Discute una foto transmitida por la NASA (del "patinete espacial" o Sojourner) donde se observa lo que parece ser una masa acuosa, contradiciendo las versiones oficiales sobre la ausencia de agua en el planeta rojo.
- Microorganismos fósiles: Menciona los restos orgánicos hallados en el meteorito Allan Hills como prueba de vida extraterrestre microscópica.
- Objetos masivos: Muestra una imagen del satélite GOES-8 que captó un objeto de dimensiones gigantescas estacionado sobre la vertical de Chile.
- Caso Yacanto: Analiza una foto de 1960 tomada por el Capitán Hugo Niotti en Córdoba, Argentina, descartando que sea un truco fotográfico tras realizar análisis digitales de bordes.
Experiencia personal y visión social
- Trayectoria: Integró en 1991 el Grupo de Trabajo de Investigación OVNI, un equipo científico-militar de la Fuerza Aérea Argentina que investigó avistamientos en zonas como Victoria, Entre Ríos.
- Avistamiento propio: Relata haber visto un OVNI a plena luz del día en Ituzaingó, sintiendo la frustración de no poder obtener pruebas fotográficas claras con una cámara común.
- Preparación de la humanidad: Cree que el mundo no está preparado para la noticia de vida inteligente debido al fanatismo y la irracionalidad que esto provocaría en las estructuras culturales y dogmáticas actuales.
A continuación, se detallan los puntos clave de su intervención:
- Crítica a la confidencialidad espacial: Acosta cuestiona las declaraciones del astronauta James Lovell (Apolo 13), quien afirmó que no existen pactos de silencio en la NASA.
- Argumento militar: Sostiene que, al ser agencias con componentes militares, los astronautas están sujetos a leyes de seguridad nacional y "Top Secret", cuya transgresión es severamente castigada.
- Cambio de paradigma: Señala que a partir de 1972, el programa espacial estadounidense dejó de buscar bases lunares para centrarse en un "escudo espacial defensivo" bajo el concepto de defensa global planetaria.
Ufología experimental y metodología
A diferencia de la investigación civil tradicional que es "post-evento" (analiza huellas o testigos), Acosta propone la ufología experimental:
- Interacción directa: Utiliza la codificación de señales lumínicas y radioeléctricas para enviar datos matemáticos (como la posición de la Tierra en el sistema solar).
- Comportamiento inteligente: Afirma que los objetos responden a estos estímulos con pulsos de luz repetitivos, lo que denota una voluntad operativa y no un fenómeno natural.
Evidencias y análisis de imágenes
Durante la entrevista, se analizan diversas fotografías:
- Marte y el agua: Discute una foto transmitida por la NASA (del "patinete espacial" o Sojourner) donde se observa lo que parece ser una masa acuosa, contradiciendo las versiones oficiales sobre la ausencia de agua en el planeta rojo.
- Microorganismos fósiles: Menciona los restos orgánicos hallados en el meteorito Allan Hills como prueba de vida extraterrestre microscópica.
- Objetos masivos: Muestra una imagen del satélite GOES-8 que captó un objeto de dimensiones gigantescas estacionado sobre la vertical de Chile.
- Caso Yacanto: Analiza una foto de 1960 tomada por el Capitán Hugo Niotti en Córdoba, Argentina, descartando que sea un truco fotográfico tras realizar análisis digitales de bordes.
Experiencia personal y visión social
- Trayectoria: Integró en 1991 el Grupo de Trabajo de Investigación OVNI, un equipo científico-militar de la Fuerza Aérea Argentina que investigó avistamientos en zonas como Victoria, Entre Ríos.
- Avistamiento propio: Relata haber visto un OVNI a plena luz del día en Ituzaingó, sintiendo la frustración de no poder obtener pruebas fotográficas claras con una cámara común.
- Preparación de la humanidad: Cree que el mundo no está preparado para la noticia de vida inteligente debido al fanatismo y la irracionalidad que esto provocaría en las estructuras culturales y dogmáticas actuales.
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TVTranscripción
00:01He is Azdrúbal Acosta, he is a researcher.
00:05How's it going?
00:06Correct, very good.
00:07Can I share a text?
00:09Yes, of course.
00:10Very brief.
00:11A text by James Lovell, a commander, a man who was part of the Apollo 13 mission,
00:18Even Tom Hanks reprogrammed it, reformulating it into a movie that we all know.
00:23Yeah.
00:24And look what this gentleman, James Lovell, says.
00:27The man went to space and came back.
00:29And look what it says.
00:30Many people believe that astronauts make a confidentiality agreement when we join NASA
00:39and that all the time we see strange beings piloting flying saucers.
00:46"I never saw anything and I don't believe in UFOs either," says Don Lovell.
00:51If there really were people up there, they would communicate with us.
00:56But I do believe there is intelligent life in the universe.
01:01It would be naive to think that it is only possible on Earth with the number of stars and planets that exist.
01:08Correct.
01:08What can you tell us?
01:10Well, it has some truth to it and some, I would say, information.
01:17Because with regard to the issue of not being forced to remain silent,
01:23I think that astronaut isn't telling the truth in that part.
01:27Because space agencies are military organizations.
01:33He has a military rank, and the military is governed by very strict rules.
01:37All military personnel are subject to top secrecy.
01:40That is to say, especially in the United States.
01:44There are very specific legal provisions that severely punish
01:51to violate current regulations in the United States and in all governments.
01:56Because in all governments there are secret laws and classified information.
02:01that the military components cannot disclose.
02:07At some point you told Costa and you told us
02:12that you have ways of tracking extraterrestrial intelligence.
02:20Recall it briefly.
02:21Well.
02:21Where he lives and what he does.
02:23I live in the city of Ituzangó, west of the Buenos Aires canal.
02:29So, I started researching the UFO topic a decade ago.
02:36Initially, I saw that the topic, let's say, the research methodology
02:42which is explained at the level of civil research worldwide
02:45It is a post-UFO event investigation.
02:47What does this mean?
02:49The incident is investigated after it has occurred.
02:52So, since we don't have the UFO,
02:55We might, with luck, have a trace,
02:58Let's say, the physical effects of the UFO and the witness.
03:01So, in this type of research,
03:05the physical effect and mainly the witness
03:08becomes the main focus of the investigation.
03:11Consequently, the UFO takes a back seat.
03:15So, the researchers enter a vicious cycle, I would say.
03:20Because it's like walking in circles, it's like a dog trying to wag its tail.
03:24Clear.
03:24And we can never make progress in the definition or, let's say,
03:28in discovering the true origin of the phenomenon.
03:31What experience have you had since developing your condition?
03:37Well, the topic itself, let's say,
03:40I began to develop the topic of experimental ufology,
03:43which is a way to investigate the UFO and not the witness.
03:48That's very good.
03:49Yes, based on statistical data,
03:52where hundreds of cases, let's say,
03:56They constitute evidence that the UFO responds to light stimuli.
04:00Do they respond?
04:00They respond.
04:02From then on, I began to shrink
04:04the procedure of experimental ufology.
04:07That is, to encode light signals,
04:09encode radio signals.
04:11Are they always the same?
04:13The signals are, let's say, numerical signals.
04:16I encode the position of our planetary system,
04:20I mark the position of our planet
04:21And I request, let's say, from nine I go down to the numbering.
04:28For example, one, four.
04:30One is the Sun, four is the planet Earth,
04:33Nine is the last planet.
04:34So I go down and try this way
04:37to notice or, let's say, to point out
04:41that it is not just a light emitted artificially,
04:46but that light also denotes intelligent behavior
04:50and a willingness to make contact.
04:52Well, he tells you, let's see, there are two important phrases.
04:55Intelligent behavior and willingness to make contact.
04:58Contact.
04:58And how is the desire for contact manifested?
05:00Well, through numbers, that is, the position of the planet is encoded
05:11And I'm dealing with numbers; numbers are a universal language.
05:18It's mathematical, and well, if a light, for example,
05:23A pulse of light is emitted, then two pulses of light are emitted,
05:25Then a pulse of light is emitted, right?
05:29And in this way, it is, let's say, being made known
05:32that there is an operational will that is intelligent.
05:38There are no, let's say, natural light manifestations
05:41that denote order and repetitive behavior.
05:46This makes it clear that, well,
05:48behind that artificial light that is sent into space
05:51There is an intelligent presence.
05:55Why were all flights to Polo suspended?
05:57So, has a cycle been completed?
05:59Why did other experiments surpass it?
06:01Well, this, let's say, corresponds,
06:05From the perspective of a global analysis,
06:10explanations that the US government has never given.
06:13Because NASA cancelled the Polo project back in 1972,
06:20cancelled the project to establish a base on the Moon
06:23and practically the entire American space program
06:28which began in 1958
06:31It was thrown in the trash to establish a whole new program
06:35that when one analyzes, let's say, the new American program
06:39with American foreign policy
06:41and the transformations that took place from 1972 onwards,
06:45That is, there is the process of relaxation,
06:48the exchange of information with the Russians,
06:51the summit meetings...
06:53Rian's Star Wars project...
06:55Well, that's precisely where it starts, because many people think
06:58Star Wars is the title of a movie, right?
07:01No, no, no.
07:01It's the other way around.
07:02The film came about because those titles originated from, let's say,
07:07from the inner circles of American strategy.
07:09That's how it is.
07:11Well, during the 80s the Star Wars theme begins.
07:15Thus we arrive at the year 1989, where the Bush-Gorbachev agreement is finalized.
07:22Then the space program ceased to be a national program
07:26to be a multinational program.
07:27The Russians, the Europeans, the Japanese, the Canadians
07:31They go on to form the new space project.
07:35And this new space project does not include any plans to travel back to the Moon.
07:40nor to establish bases, but simply to build a defensive space shield
07:44around the Earth.
07:45This is part of what has come to be called, let's say,
07:49what the American strategy today calls global planetary defense.
07:53Space shield?
07:54Space shield, yes sir.
07:56Does one think...?
07:57Defensive space shield.
07:59Of course, one thinks about men.
08:00To defend themselves against what, against...
08:02This is the question.
08:03Small countries of the third world, if the great military powers
08:08They are already united through the Bush-Gorbachev agreement, the summit meeting,
08:13Isn't that right? And they established a whole, let's say, political program.
08:18for the third millennium of development, of human coexistence,
08:22of resolving conflicts through diplomatic and peaceful means,
08:26So what's the point of defense...?
08:28The shield.
08:28The defensive space shield.
08:30This is due, let's say, to a strategic analysis perspective,
08:36to the next step.
08:38The United States, when the space race begins,
08:43I had no hypothesis of external conflict.
08:45The military says that for a conflict to exist, there have to be two sides.
08:48If there are no two sides, there is no conflict.
08:50Well, the United States, until the 1970s, officially announced that there were no traces of life
08:56in another planetary system, and therefore had no life conflict,
08:59There was no conflict, no hypothesis of external conflict.
09:02But well, this strategic position of North America begins to change precisely with the Apollo mission.
09:10That's why the flights are being stopped and suspended.
09:13Exactly. To this day, the cancellation of the Apollo mission remains a mystery.
09:17because North America never gave any strategic explanations for that, let's say, decision.
09:25Decisions are made based on very concrete things, not on assumptions.
09:33When we get back, he's going to tell me about the planet Mars.
09:38The satellites that are circling and people think they are UFOs.
09:43Yeah.
09:44What happened to an Argentinian who spotted it?
09:48You are coming to Druga la Costa, we're coming.
10:02Costa has brought us photos and enlargements,
10:06But let's start with the Internet,
10:08and I even saw it in a major newspaper,
10:10or of significant circulation in Argentina.
10:13Let's see, dear director.
10:16Let's see.
10:18The image...
10:22What is this image, Costa?
10:25Well, this is the image that NASA transmitted,
10:29Let's say, from when he arrived in the space laboratory he sent to Mars,
10:36What was popularly called a space skateboard, wasn't it?
10:40NASA broadcast this photo to the entire world.
10:45supposedly from Mars.
10:47and direct transmission.
10:48But let me see if I understand,
10:50at least in this chiaroscuro.
10:53Here I see a watery mass, I see water,
10:56But know that Mars doesn't have water.
11:00At least according to official statements...
11:02Ah, this is what they teach us in school.
11:03Official statements say there are none,
11:06But anyway, the image shows something else.
11:08And this went around the world.
11:09He traveled the world.
11:10This leads to two conclusions,
11:12or that photography did not come from Mars, as was said,
11:15and that it was taken on Earth,
11:17or that there is concealment of scientific information
11:20of what was found on Mars.
11:22I'm going to another image.
11:25Bacteria on the red planet...
11:27Microorganisms, yes.
11:28...organic remains,
11:30tiny remains of organic matter.
11:33Okay, if I put them there, it'll be easier to see.
11:35Yeah.
11:36I'll bring it closer.
11:37Ah, there it is.
11:37Well.
11:40Organic remains,
11:41tiny remains of organic matter,
11:43that scientists detected
11:44on the Alan Hills meteorite.
11:47Exactly, correct.
11:48This was found in Antarctica
11:50It was about 10 years ago, maybe a little more.
11:56The scientists already had a definition.
11:58about what they found,
12:00But anyway, they only made it public now.
12:03before admission to Tuesday,
12:06Because, well, there is something significant.
12:08There has been a change in policy
12:10of information from the 90th,
12:13precisely from the Hugo-Rabachov pact.
12:16We analysts are noticing that,
12:20Well, there is a classification process.
12:22regarding what constitutes confidential information.
12:25And little by little it is becoming known
12:27what has been found,
12:28what is being found in outer space.
12:31Suddenly, via the Internet,
12:34This image appears.
12:36An image showing the Earth's crust,
12:39an object...
12:41Ah, there it is.
12:42An object that's been wandering around,
12:45which can be anything,
12:48But, you were telling me, Costa,
12:49which are expanding.
12:51Yes, that's correct.
12:52Okay, let's continue with the continuity, shall we?
12:54Let's see, let's see, let's see, let's see.
12:55Here it goes.
12:57We continue to see the object and the Earth's crust.
13:01It continued to expand.
13:03Okay, patience.
13:04Here it goes.
13:05Let's see.
13:09Patience, patience, patience.
13:10And suddenly, suddenly, what is that?
13:13This is a photograph taken by the Geo-8 satellite.
13:22And, well, the scientists, in their official version,
13:26They said it was a shot of part of the Moon.
13:30Oh well...
13:30That's not the moon.
13:31It's not the Moon.
13:32Further analysis, including this analysis
13:37The thermographic evidence shows that it is
13:40of an object of very large dimensions
13:43which was, let's say, parked directly above Chile.
13:48This type of object has already been detected several times.
13:51above Brazil,
13:54I even think so in the United States.
13:56But, well, this information
13:59She is not wanted or accepted as an object.
14:05Did you work for the Argentine Air Force?
14:07Not exactly for the Argentine Air Force.
14:10I joined in 1991
14:13to an Argentine military scientific group
14:15called the UFO Research Working Group.
14:19I have been...
14:20It was a military scientific group.
14:23I was integrated as, let's say, group staff.
14:26And, well, they took...
14:28What was that group doing?
14:29We were investigating the whole topic of zombie sightings,
14:33on the UFO topic.
14:34Where did it occur in Argentina?
14:36In which region?
14:37Well, we investigated in different areas,
14:40but mainly in Victoria Entre Ríos.
14:45Victoria Entre Ríos.
14:46Let's see.
14:49On July 3, 1960,
14:54Captain Hugo Gniotti took this photo of an alleged UFO.
14:59in Yacanto, in Córdoba.
15:00In Cordoba, correct.
15:01The analysis, the caption says, digitized,
15:06That is, edge enhancement, color contouring
15:08and application of the profile course,
15:11It did not help to determine the nature of what appears in the image.
15:17What has been identified, of course, does not mean extraterrestrial.
15:19It cannot be ruled out that this was the case.
15:23Exactly.
15:24This is a photograph taken by the captain,
15:27But hey, one thing's for sure,
15:29It wasn't a photographic trick.
15:31It wasn't a photographic trick.
15:32How do you determine what is a trick?
15:34And what is a real phenomenon?
15:37Well, because generally in photographic tricks
15:41They can always be detected,
15:44especially through computerized image analysis,
15:47The trick can be detected perfectly.
15:50There are, let's say, very specific posts
15:52that allow you to know if a photograph is doctored or not.
15:56Have you ever received or witnessed an experience
16:00that has deeply moved him?
16:03In other words, that it has been,
16:05has had a first-kind contact.
16:09Let's just say I've had the experience of seeing a UFO during the day.
16:13Where did it go?
16:14In Ituzangó, in the Ituzangó area.
16:16And this shocked me because I felt powerless.
16:19Firstly, because I tried to take a photograph with a regular camera
16:24and I couldn't get any results.
16:27And, let's just say, I felt powerless because I haven't had a way to show what I saw.
16:34That is, what I often say, especially to researchers,
16:39that verifying the nature of the UFO phenomenon is not so difficult,
16:44It's not very complicated.
16:45The tricky part is proving it.
16:47What does it mean for someone to believe him or not?
16:49No, exactly, because it's precisely a matter of believing, of belief.
16:54In other words, and well, everything one might say is called into question.
17:00Unless there is very concrete evidence.
17:03When it's equipped with all its equipment and suddenly receives signals,
17:08You find accurate data, what do you imagine?
17:13Well, I think it's a way of moving towards knowledge
17:18And it is also a way to obtain very concrete evidence.
17:24The issue is that this could lead to, let's say,
17:31to create a demonstration path that proves the existence of extraterrestrial life.
17:36Of course, well, he doesn't always take this very seriously.
17:41because very large investments of money are being used
17:46in the search for extraterrestrial intelligence.
17:48Do you think the world is ready to live in other galaxies?
17:51No, I don't think so.
17:52He's not even prepared to receive the news that extraterrestrial life exists.
17:56Ah, that's good information.
17:57Because the world is usually run by belief, by dogma,
18:02And behind all of this there is a lot of fanaticism,
18:05and a pattern of behavior contrary to what a man should do,
18:10In other words, a very irrational behavior.
18:14Fanaticism makes a man very irrational.
18:17Yes of course.
18:18And I don't think we're prepared to receive news of that nature.
18:24There would be a real global shock,
18:27And there would be, let's say, very profound changes
18:34as far as, let's say, human culture is concerned, isn't that right?
18:40Someone called us and said,
18:43Tell me, is there a light, because it seems someone told you,
18:47What is the light from Mir, which even appears as a moving star?
18:52What is it? Is it a star? Is it Mir or a flying saucer?
18:56No, they are usually satellites, or in this case the Russian station.
19:04Well, it's very common for people to get confused.
19:07How can the average person tell the difference?
19:09Well, because it has very typical behavior,
19:12That is, it has a linear trajectory,
19:16It always happens at the same time, it is observed at the same time,
19:18It's repetitive,
19:22Let's say, it doesn't have alternative lights,
19:24like they sparkle or anything like that.
19:27It shines in the sky for a certain period of time,
19:31which is where sunlight reflects off the device,
19:34and then it turns off.
19:36Well, not the UFO, the UFO has a different kind of behavior.
19:40The zigzag.
19:40It zigzags, it can...
19:42The multiplicity of colors.
19:44Yes, alternating lights of different colors,
19:48There's a white light that suddenly changes color,
19:52It turns red or green,
19:54You usually see a mass of light followed by phosphorescence.
19:57that surrounds...
19:57Is that what you?
19:58Yeah.
20:00A phosphorescence surrounding the main mass, isn't that right?
20:03And, well, there's a...
20:05Above all, there is one type of UFO presentation
20:09which is often called the jumping star,
20:12That is, it can have a highly variable chemillennium,
20:18either horizontally or vertically.
20:20And, well, the UFO always exhibits a pattern of behavior
20:26which is unconventional with what we can define
20:30as a natural phenomenon or terrestrial technology.
20:34One question and...
20:36Actually, there are two questions.
20:38Yeah.
20:38Two questions you would rephrase.
20:41What would you ask an extraterrestrial?
20:44The first question.
20:45What is their intention?
20:50And then, what would you tell him about this planet Earth?
20:55That this was the informant of the earthlings.
20:57Of the earthlings.
20:58That's how dangerous we humans are.
21:01I should save the first question.
21:03Yeah.
21:05Of course, this is an issue that is, let's say, debated, isn't it?
21:10Because, well, we wonder with what intention.
21:14It doesn't matter where it comes from, but what the intention is.
21:17From the point of view...
21:18Is that a human attitude?
21:21It's part of, let's say, the nature of every living being, isn't it?
21:28But there is something, an important detail.
21:30From a psychological point of view we know
21:33that the passivity or aggressiveness of an individual
21:35It does not depend on the level of intelligence,
21:37but rather the degree of need for survival.
21:39Clear.
21:40So, people generally say,
21:42Well, if they had wanted to attack us, hypothetically speaking,
21:44They would not have attacked anymore.
21:46But this is relative.
21:48Because, let's say, the fact that a supposed extraterrestrial civilization
21:53technologically advanced technology can visit us,
21:57Just because it is very advanced doesn't mean it is peaceful.
22:01Because if they can't solve it through intelligence
22:04the survival problem they may have,
22:07Well, everything indicates that in those extreme cases
22:11Violence is always used.
22:14In this sense, NASA is working on the theory
22:16or the convergent evolution hypothesis.
22:19Convergent evolution.
22:21Well, all we can see of the life process
22:23On our planet, it would be adaptable to every point in the universe.
22:27In other words, the instinct for self-preservation exists.
22:32Let's say, survival problems,
22:35the problems of, let's say, the prevalence of the fittest.
22:42These are patterns that occur in every species.
22:46Especially in intelligent species.
22:49Will man want to survive?
22:51Of course.
22:52Man always wants to survive.
22:54And why will he destroy this planet?
22:56Well, this, let's say, is perhaps a minority issue.
23:01and not majorities.
23:02Because what prevails is the will of a minority
23:04subject to very large interests and selfishness
23:08that at this moment, well,
23:12the vast majority do not share
23:14And, well, he's asking for changes.
23:17Greater responsibility for all governments.
23:21Humanity, generally speaking, I mean the majority,
23:25I think it's more about the aspect of consciousness,
23:29Regarding what we were talking about,
23:31He is more mature than some leaders.
23:35Short question, short answer.
23:37If in a little while we have to lower the fence of this land
23:41because it's over,
23:43Would you move?
23:44Would he go with the boys?
23:47Probably yes.
23:49It's a, let's say,
23:51one of those decisions that you have to make in the moment.
23:56Thank you for your testimony.
23:58No, on the contrary.
23:59We'll be right back.