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00:00And then Lance replies, you weren't the one who did it right.
00:03And Tyler says, I am, I'm sorry.
00:07Court is now in session.
00:09Calling case 251-403-576, State of Utah versus Tyler James Robinson.
00:25Officer, I'm going to direct your attention to your monitor again and have you look at State's Exhibit 3.2.
00:31What happened?
00:32What did you see and what did you hear?
00:34I heard an individual talking to Charlie and I happened to kind of glance over the edge of the railing
00:40about that time.
00:42I could see the right side of Charlie's shoulder, so not his whole body because he was underneath the tent,
00:47so I could only see probably the right side of his body.
00:51He was answering a question, kid asking him a question, and then I heard a shot fired.
00:57Can you describe the reaction of others that were there?
01:00Yeah, so then everybody started getting up and starting to run in more of a chaos kind of situation.
01:09I will follow up, Judge.
01:10All right.
01:12Officer Bagley, do you see an evidence tag in that exhibit?
01:17Did you make it to the rooftop?
01:19I did.
01:20Do you know about what time you got there?
01:23I got there 1244.
01:26Okay.
01:28What did you do when you got on top?
01:31When I got on top, I hopped over the guardrail.
01:34I noticed that there was an object which was sitting right about 10 or 15 feet in from the other
01:40side of the guardrail in the gravel.
01:42That looked out of place to me.
01:46And in relationship to where you hopped over the guardrail, what direction was that object?
01:51To the west of the guardrail.
01:53Okay.
01:54And did you recognize the object?
01:56I did.
01:57And what was it?
01:58It was a red and black screwdriver.
02:00Okay.
02:00Okay.
02:01And what can you describe for the record that disturbance?
02:04To me, when I got up there and I could see this disturbance in gravel, to me, it looks like
02:11a sniper pad, a person that has been laid in a prone position, and you've got markings of elbows, knees,
02:18and feet to where somebody was in the line of sight of where Charlie's tent was.
02:22Yeah, as I was clearing people out and making sure that the evidence was preserved, about towards the top, after
02:29a little bit, I saw an empty holster sitting there.
02:31And when you say towards the top, can you be specific and tell us where you were?
02:36So, on the south side in the courtyard, there's some tiers of seating where the grass is different levels.
02:42And it was towards the top, maybe just right before the cement is where everybody's standing.
02:47So, there's different levels towards the top on the grass.
02:50And when you saw the holster, can you describe to me what it looked like?
02:54An empty concealed holster.
02:57For what type of weapon?
02:58For a pistol.
02:59Okay.
03:00And did it have any markings on it?
03:02I didn't even, no, not that I noticed.
03:04And what happened to that holster?
03:06I have no idea.
03:08Did you ever take custody of it?
03:10No.
03:10Did you ever tell anyone else to take custody of it?
03:14No.
03:14You just left it on the grass?
03:16I did.
03:23And let's go ahead and play this video only on the monitors.
03:28And if there's sound associated with it, the sound to be played as well.
03:33And you may proceed.
03:47And that concludes States Exhibit 8.
03:51Mr. Sturgell, you may proceed.
03:58Officer, I'm going to direct your attention to your monitor again and have you look at States Exhibit 3.2.
04:05What happened?
04:06What did you see and what did you hear?
04:08I heard an individual talking to Charlie and I happened to kind of glance over the edge of the railing
04:13about that time.
04:16I could see the right side of Charlie's shoulder, so not his whole body, because he was underneath the tent,
04:21so I could only see probably the right side of his body.
04:24He was answering a question, kid asking him a question, and then I heard a shot fired.
04:30Can you describe the reaction of others that were there?
04:33Yeah, so then everybody started getting up and starting to run in more of a chaos kind of situation.
04:42I will follow up, Judge.
04:44All right.
04:46Officer Bagley, do you see an evidence tag in that exhibit?
04:50Did you make it to the rooftop?
04:52I did.
04:53Do you know about what time you got there?
04:57I got there 1244.
05:00Okay.
05:02What did you do when you got on top?
05:04When I got on top, I hopped over the guardrail.
05:07Well, I noticed that there was an object which was sitting right about 10 or 15 feet in from the
05:14other side of the guardrail in the gravel.
05:15That looked out of place to me.
05:19And in relationship to where you hopped over the guardrail, what direction was that object?
05:24To the west of the guardrail.
05:26Okay.
05:28And did you recognize the object?
05:30I did.
05:30And what was it?
05:31It was a red and black screwdriver.
05:33Okay.
05:34Okay.
05:34And what can you describe for the record that disturbance?
05:37To me, when I got up there and I could see the disturbance in gravel, to me, it looks like
05:45a sniper pad, a person that has been laid in a prone position.
05:49And you've got markings of elbows, knees, and feet to where somebody was in the line of sight of where
05:54Charlie's tent was.
05:56Yeah.
05:56As I was clearing people out and making sure that the evidence was preserved, about towards the top, after a
06:02little bit, I saw an empty holster sitting there.
06:04And when you say towards the top, can you be specific and tell us where you were?
06:09So, on the south side in the courtyard, there's some tiers of seating where the grass is different levels.
06:16And it was towards the top, maybe just right before the cement is where everybody's standing.
06:20So, there's different levels towards the top on the grass.
06:23And when you saw the holster, can you describe to me what it looked like?
06:27An empty concealed holster.
06:30For what type of weapon?
06:31For a pistol.
06:32Okay.
06:33And did it have any markings on it?
06:35I didn't even, no, not that I noticed.
06:38And what happened to that holster?
06:40I have no idea.
06:41Did you ever take custody of it?
06:43No.
06:44Did you ever tell anyone else to take custody of it?
06:47No.
06:48You just left it on the grass?
06:49I did.
06:52You believe this is Mr. Robinson returning to campus?
06:55I do, yes.
06:56Okay.
06:56And what do you believe is Mr. Robinson?
06:58The shoes are the same.
07:01And the images that we have are, from my viewing and seeing Mr. Robinson on the video, it's the same
07:11person.
07:14He's noticeably wearing different clothing.
07:16He is wearing different clothing, and he also is walking with a gait or a limp in the studio.
07:22With a gait or what?
07:23A limp.
07:24Okay.
07:32Now what do we see?
07:34So it's Mr. Robinson coming up the stairs of the parking structure.
07:42Again, he seems to be having issues walking.
07:59And again, were you able to track Mr. Robinson when he leaves this parking structure?
08:07Yes, we were able to.
08:09Okay.
08:09So when he leaves the parking structure, where does he go?
08:13He comes up around Campus Drive, as you can see on the video here.
08:18There is a cut through there north of the Losey building, and that's Mr. Robinson coming up the sidewalk.
08:24He has the noticeable gait or limp in his walk.
08:28And then he moves south across the front of the Losey building.
08:34On the sidewalk?
08:35Yes, correct.
08:36Okay.
08:39He would be the rear of the two individuals in this particular video.
08:43All right.
08:43So right now, if you were to break this picture into quadrants, where would he be?
08:49I would be in the top left quadrant, walking to the left of the image.
08:53Now what do we see?
08:56This is an image looking across the parking lot to the Losey building.
09:00And Mr. Robinson is appearing on the exterior staircase, which gives access to the Losey building roof and the area
09:07where the railing was.
09:09And again, let's break that image into quadrants.
09:12Where would he be located if you broke it into quadrants?
09:15It's in the top right, and the individual can be seen moving under the notations that are on the video.
09:23The individual actually kind of rolls over the railing onto the roof of the Losey building.
09:29All right.
09:33And again, in the top left corner, the individual is now seen running across the rooftop of the Losey building
09:39to what would be the southwest corner of the building.
09:45Crouching down and then crawling to the corner of the building.
09:52And this is at what time?
09:55Around 12.23.
09:58I think the time stamp on the video is 12.22.
10:02On the 10th?
10:04On September 10th, yes.
10:062025.
10:06So we're clear, this is the roof of the Losey building.
10:08Correct.
10:11Can you still see that individual?
10:14Yes, you can, lane prone.
10:30You believe this to be Mr. Robinson?
10:33I'm sorry?
10:33You believe this to be Mr. Robinson?
10:35I do, yes.
10:35And how long is he out there on the edge of the building?
10:40Just until the reported shot was fired at 12.23 and 28.
10:46The individual then stands up and then moves across the building to the north.
10:50Is that what we're seeing happening right now?
10:52It is, yes.
10:54They move behind the atrium area on the rooftop to the northeast corner where the white triangle is.
11:05Do you see Mr. Robinson now?
11:07I do, yes.
11:08He's just arriving at the corner of the building.
11:11Almost the top center of the image.
11:19What are we seeing now?
11:21Mr. Robinson lowering and jumping off of the roof of the Losey building onto the grass area.
11:28And then moving away towards Campus Drive.
11:33And he appears to be carrying some kind of an object in his hand at this time.
11:46So he's approaching?
11:48Campus Drive.
11:50And again, broken into quadrants.
11:52Where is he currently?
11:53In the top right quadrant.
11:58And the time?
12:00It's 12.24 and 42 on the time stamp.
12:03What do we see now?
12:04He then crosses Campus Drive and drops down into the wooded area on the far side of Campus Drive.
12:14Your Honor, Jeffrey Nyman on behalf of the Kirk family.
12:17I've been very hesitant to speak up at these proceedings.
12:20We understand it's the state, the defense, and the judge.
12:23You're all doing your job.
12:25But I feel as if we need to.
12:26I want to be clear as to what the Kirk family's position is on all of this.
12:30The Kirk family believes strongly that if the evidence is being admitted in this preliminary hearing, it should be made
12:35public for the world to see.
12:38No redactions.
12:39This court has tools at its disposal to make sure the defendant receives a fair trial.
12:46You'll use them if you find that you need to.
12:51That's it, Your Honor.
12:53To not be transparent here, to not be open, to not let the world see what happened, will create doubt
12:59and distrust in the judicial system.
13:02And that's not what anybody wants.
13:04That's not what any of us believe should happen here.
13:06And we'd ask the court to consider the position of the family in making its ultimate decision.
13:11And Agent Davis, who are we seeing here?
13:15That's Tyler Robinson.
13:17And although we are watching it on video, what?
13:21We received information that an individual was turning himself in or was going to turn himself in to police in
13:30regard to his involvement with the incident, the shooting on U of U campus.
13:38And I'm sorry, what time did you get that information, that call?
13:41About 8.30 p.m.
13:43Did you travel down to St. George?
13:44I did.
13:46On what day?
13:48Of September 11th.
13:52Were you aware or did you become aware what time that individual arrived at Washington County Sheriff's Office?
13:58I was told he arrived there about 9 p.m. that evening.
14:03And was he with anybody else?
14:06He had been, yeah, he'd come there with his parents and a family friend.
14:11Did you speak with this individual that we've been talking about?
14:15Yes, I did.
14:18Did you get his name?
14:20Yes, we obtained his name and date of birth.
14:22What was his name?
14:24Tyler Robinson.
14:26Did he tell you that himself?
14:28He did.
14:31Okay.
14:33Down in St. George, Washington County Sheriff's Office, was Mr. Robinson detained at that time?
14:40Yes, he was.
14:42Was he formally arrested at that time?
14:45Yeah, following, after all the interviews were completed when we talked to everybody, he was formally arrested at that time.
14:53Are you familiar with an individual named Lance Twiggs?
14:56Yes, I am.
14:58And who is he in regards to this investigation?
15:04He's the roommate of Tyler Robinson.
15:08Was he interviewed as part of this investigation?
15:11He was.
15:12How many times?
15:13Two times.
15:14When was the first time?
15:15The first time was the early morning hours of September 12th, and that occurred at St. George Police Department.
15:24The use of immunity is essentially giving the individual, during the limited time of their statement, they're given that immunity
15:33from statements that are made in regard to an incident.
15:38But it does not preclude them from prosecution, from evidence that would be known or found then or later outside
15:45of that interview.
15:46It just gives them that limited immunity during the type of, during the type of the interview.
15:51Okay, so for any statements made during the interview, they're given immunity for that, but they're not generally prohibited from
15:58being potentially prosecuted outside of that interview, is that fair?
16:02That's my understanding, yes.
16:06Was Mr. Twiggs given use immunity?
16:08Yes, he was.
16:10By what offices?
16:11The Utah County Attorney's Office, as well as the United States Attorney's Office.
16:16Okay.
16:23You do solemnly swear or affirm that the evidence you shall give in this issue shall be the truth, the
16:30whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
16:31So help you God?
16:33Yes.
16:35I also need to notify you that you are notified that statements you are about to make may be presented
16:40to a magistrate or a judge in lieu of your sworn testimony at a preliminary examination.
16:45Any false statement you make and that you do not believe to be true may subject you to criminal punishment
16:53as a Class A misdemeanor.
16:54Do you understand that?
16:56Yes.
16:56That potentially could be used as, for punishment, as a higher offense, as obstruction of justice.
17:05In addition, I just want to make sure that our recording here is clear, that you've also been given a
17:14federal agreement and a state agreement granting you immunity from prosecution for materials that you discuss now.
17:21Do you understand that?
17:22Mm-hmm.
17:25First, we're going to cover some of the things that you've already talked about, but to make it as part
17:30of this record.
17:33First, what's your name?
17:35Full name with middle name or just first and last?
17:37First and last is fine.
17:39Okay.
17:39My name is Lance Twiggs.
17:41And do you know Tyler Robinson?
17:43Yes, I do.
17:45Yeah, I do.
17:46And this is the same Tyler Robinson that's been charged with the shooting of Charlie Kirk?
17:50Yes.
17:50And would you say when you first met Tyler?
17:56I think it was 2023.
17:58I've known him longer than that, though.
18:00That was, I think, the first time I met him in person.
18:03Okay.
18:08And will you describe your relationship with Tyler when you first met him anyway?
18:16When I first met him, I didn't know him super well.
18:19He was just a new roommate.
18:21So, I knew he knew my friend group and I knew he liked playing games.
18:28But that's about it when we first, like, when he first moved him.
18:32Okay.
18:34Before we go on, I realized my mic was muted at the outset.
18:37Was your mic on?
18:38Your mic's on?
18:40Okay.
18:40I'm going to repeat those admonitions just to make sure we got it recorded.
18:44Okay.
18:44So, again, I placed you under oath.
18:49Just to make a record, I'm going to do it again.
18:52You just always swear that evidence you shall give in this issue.
18:57Okay.
19:00I think that's all the questions I have for this portion.
19:04Let me check and see if I've missed anything.
19:26The Dremel that you talked about, you said he had asked for that.
19:31Is that right?
19:32Mm-hmm.
19:32And had he told you it was to inscribe bullets?
19:34Yeah.
19:37And so, did you have a Dremel then?
19:39Yeah.
19:39Okay.
19:40It was in our, like, we had a, our apartment, we had a section where we kept all our, like,
19:44random tools for household stuff in our, like, lower basement level pantry.
19:51So, yeah.
19:52Okay.
19:53And did you give that to him or tell him where it was?
19:55I just told him where it was, yeah.
20:02Okay.
20:02I'm going to go ahead and end the recording for the 11 of two purposes.
20:08Shall be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth shall be God.
20:11Yes.
20:12I want to, I'm not going to go through every single message, but I do want to have you
20:16read aloud certain portions of them.
20:19And I apologize to counsel.
20:20These are not actually given a page number.
20:25I have page numbers, but I'm happy to confer that we're on the same page as we go.
20:31So, here we're looking at page one of State's Exhibit 16.1.
20:36If you could start, if you could read a little more than halfway down where it begins Wednesday,
20:4511 p.m., will you start reading underneath that?
20:48Yes.
20:50So, this would have been from Tyler.
20:54So, drop what you're doing, look under your keyboard.
20:56And I apologize.
20:57Let me stop you there.
20:58How do you know that that message would have been from Tyler Robinson?
21:02That's just, so any of the messages in gray would be from Tyler, and the message in blue
21:06would be from Lance.
21:08It's just the way the iPhone distinguishes the messages.
21:13And also, Lance, Lance in his interview also acknowledges that, who was saying what.
21:19And up at the top, who do we see that this thread is between?
21:24Tyler.
21:27All right.
21:27Sorry to interrupt you.
21:28So, read that again, starting from look under the keyboard.
21:34So, after that, then Lance responds.
21:36He says, what?
21:37And then he says, you're joking, right?
21:40And then Tyler says, I tried to delete that.
21:44We could scroll down to page two.
21:49And if you can continue reading along.
21:53Okay.
21:54And Tyler says, I'm still okay, my love, but I'm stuck in Orem for...
21:58A little while longer yet.
22:00Shouldn't be long until I can come home, but gotta grab my rifle still.
22:04To be honest, I had hoped to keep this secret till I died of old age.
22:08I am sorry to involve you.
22:11And then Lance replies, you weren't the one who did it right?
22:14And Tyler says, I am, I'm sorry.
22:19And then Lance says, I thought they caught the person.
22:22And then Tyler says, no, they grabbed some crazy old dude and interrogated someone in similar clothing.
22:28I had planned to grab my rifle from the drop point shortly after, but most of that side of town
22:35got locked down.
22:36It's quiet, almost enough to get out, but there's one vehicle lingering.
22:39We could scroll down to page three.
22:44Continue reading.
22:46Lance says, why?
22:48And Tyler says, why did I do it?
22:51And Lance says, yeah.
22:53Tyler says, I had enough of his hatred.
22:55Some hate can't be negotiated out.
22:57If I'm able to grab my rifle unseen, I will have left no evidence.
23:03Going to attempt to retrieve it again.
23:05Hopefully, they have moved on.
23:06I haven't seen anything in the news about them finding it.
23:10We'll update you shortly.
23:11Or shortly, we'll update you by midnight.
23:13And then Lance says, all right, stay safe.
23:16How long have you been planning this?
23:19Scroll down a little bit, please, Kimberly.
23:22And Tyler replies, a bit over a week, I believe.
23:25I can get close to it, but there is a squad car parked right by it.
23:29I think they already swept that spot, but I don't want to chance it.
23:33We can scroll down to page four and continue reading about halfway down.
23:41I'll stop you about halfway down.
23:43This is while they were spot, but I don't want to chance it while they were parked there.
23:47If they had found it, I imagine there would be more commotion.
23:51Again, I'm sorry for roping you into all of this.
23:53You shouldn't have to worry about this.
23:56And Lance replies, does anyone else know?
24:00Tyler says, not to my knowledge.
24:01All right, I'll stop you there.
24:04Let's move to page five.
24:06So this should be page four.
24:07So just scroll down one, please, Kimberly.
24:11And if you could read starting...
24:18Sorry, Kimberly, scroll a bit more down.
24:22If you could read, I don't know, about one-third of the way up that starts with guess.
24:29Okay.
24:31Tyler says, guess I'm just sitting in my car watching Reels for another hour, hoping this guy
24:38is off.
24:39And continue.
24:41And Lance says, are you okay still?
24:44And Tyler says, yes, check and spot again now.
24:48We'll...
24:49Sorry, now we're on page six.
24:51Continue reading.
24:52We'll update soon.
24:54He continues, the squad car was moved further away enough that I should be able to move in.
24:59I backed off because I thought I heard footsteps, maybe a foot patrol.
25:03But the crickets here are so loud.
25:06Gonna see if the road closer to campus is open so I can drive past and check it out.
25:12Probably still closed off, though.
25:15Getting worried, hard to know for sure, but I'm not finding my rifle.
25:19Could be in the wrong spot.
25:20I want to return to the, what you've referred to as the perch, the sniper position.
25:27Were measurements taken from that sniper position to the tent where Charlie Kirk was seated?
25:33Yes.
25:34Do you know the distance?
25:36Yeah.
25:36So the distance from the perch area directly to the tent where Mr. Kirk was sitting was
25:41approximately 415 feet.
25:44If you take into...
25:46And this...
25:47If you break it down, so from the perch
25:49to the tent, you're looking at it basically like this.
25:54And this is the perch and this is the tent.
25:56And now you're describing...
25:57I'm sorry, I have to make a record.
25:58You're describing an angle, a slope, downward from the perch to the location of the tent.
26:03Is that accurate?
26:03Yes, I am.
26:04Okay, go ahead.
26:04So the angle, so again, the distance, the perch to the tent was approximately 415 feet.
26:11If you think about it, or without taking into account the elevation drop, it was actually
26:16410 feet.
26:17So just horizontal straight across.
26:19And then the elevation difference between that is approximately 68 feet.
26:25Okay, 410 feet from the perch to the tent with a 68 foot vertical drop.
26:32Is that right?
26:34Is that right?