00:00Imagine walking down your local high street to see a wall like this.
00:10Or this. Or this.
00:13Would you think about them all the same way?
00:15Would you see a clear difference between each of them?
00:17Graffiti and street art have a long history here in the county,
00:20but how have public perspectives of it changed over the years?
00:23Well here in Ashford, the local council are continuously investing in both businesses
00:27and artists to create works that they believe will add to the identity of the town.
00:32This is Ashford Unframed.
00:34The council got together and started to think about how it can best reshape the town centre.
00:39And there were so many strands to that, but a creative strand to that was
00:44we've got a lot of places and areas in the town that could do with a bit of a lick
00:49of paint.
00:49So we started to think about adding one or two murals.
00:52Come a year later, we had a mural trail with lots of local, regional and international artists
00:59coming to Ashford to create their wares.
01:01As a council, we see a huge benefit in working with the skills and the talents of artists,
01:07because the power of artists means that they can come together, they can show off their talents.
01:11Since the project's launch, does the public agree it's been a positive addition to the town?
01:16Oh yes, of course it is.
01:18If it wasn't, we'd get a lot of graffiti on it and there's very little graffiti.
01:23Yeah, I like it, I like it.
01:25I think it brings attention and I see loads of posts about it and stuff,
01:28so people are getting their attention.
01:30It makes it look less plain.
01:32I think it's fabulous, it's lovely, it's beautiful.
01:35Yeah, I'm all for it.
01:37It really enhances the area.
01:39However, the trail looks a little different today than when it was first applied to the town.
01:43Some of the murals we expect to be there for two, three months and they've lasted years.
01:50Some, some murals have already come down, but the reason why they've come down is because
01:55there was a great opportunity to put a mural on a building before it does come down.
02:00One piece in particular that has already come down was done by local artist Sam Cox,
02:04better known as Mr. Doodle.
02:06So why would an artist agree to do a piece knowing it would one day be nothing more than a
02:11pile of rubber?
02:11The nature of street art and graffiti is, it is really very temporary.
02:17But the good thing is that the world we live in now with being able to share images and videos
02:22and documenting everything online and there's like a different outlet to what it was before.
02:28Like in years gone past, it would have been only people who lived in the area who would have seen
02:34that mural.
02:35But now because there's such a global audience for everything potentially, like painting that wall
02:41was probably seen by a thousand times the amount of people online that actually saw in person or probably, you
02:47know, more than that.
02:48So for me, as long as I can kind of, you know, take something from doing that wall or a
02:53project like that,
02:54even if it falls apart or almost instantly after, the artwork really is the video of it more than the
03:03mural in some ways.
03:05Now, while some councils are investing in the recreation of their towns, others are putting their funds to preserving theirs.
03:11Let's see how much residents would guess Canterbury City Council spend each year on graffiti removal in the city.
03:27A request through the Freedom of Information Act shows the following figures the council has spent over the last 10
03:33years,
03:33with the figure growing significantly each year over the last five years, amounting to the most recent being more than
03:39130,000 pounds.
03:41First of all, if we look at the fact that the figures for 2020, which was COVID, is a huge
03:50dip, isn't it?
03:51And that's because people were prevented from going out and so forth.
03:55But I can see that a resident would say to me, hang on a minute, Conny, 130,000 pounds, that's
04:02an awful lot of graffiti removal.
04:03And my answer is my inbox gets chock-a-block with people complaining about graffiti.
04:10And when I go to speak to the team, I find that they've already dealt with it.
04:14And that's because we've got a rapid response team now, and that costs money.
04:18And I think it's important that people understand that graffiti isn't something that can be sort of dealt with easily.
04:26When people are graffitiing on ancient monuments, that takes some skill and proper expertise in making sure in taking the
04:35graffiti off, we're not down in between those ancient monuments.
04:38Now, while some areas are investing, others have created their own solutions by opening spaces that have developed reputations that
04:45allow for public tagging.
04:46One of which is the Margate Lido, where I'm speaking to artist Cat Neal about what it's like to be
04:50an anonymous artist today.
04:51One of the aspects about being anonymous that I enjoy is that I can kind of put all of my
04:56energy and love and care into my paintings.
05:00And then I can kind of step back from it and I can let the world see it without it
05:03being, you know, necessarily a reflection of me.
05:06When you see people like Banksy, like obviously the anonymity is a big part of the mystery behind him.
05:12I thought it was quite funny that when he got unmasked recently, all the memes were like, oh, they discovered
05:17who Banksy was and it's just some guy.
05:19Like there was ever an expectation that he was going to be some sort of superhero or something.
05:23And again, I guess part of what I like about the anonymity is that when people see my work, they
05:28don't, you know, they don't see it as me.
05:30They see it as some externalized, mystical, mythological or whatever.
05:34Like my art doesn't have all of the stigma that I have attached to me. It's just out there like
05:39pure and clean for anyone to respond to it how they like.
05:42There is a certain level of celebrity that you can achieve in this world.
05:46That's not something I'm looking for for myself.
05:49Like if I can get my work out there and if I can get more people interested in it, ultimately,
05:53I'd like to be able to make a living doing this.
05:55And yeah, without being widely known, it's going to be harder to make a living.
06:01I've always kind of thought with my art career that it's one of the benefits that graffiti writers have and
06:06street artists have is that they can put their work out in the world without seeking permission, without having to
06:12get authority or like approval from galleries or people in the art world.
06:17Another anonymous Margate artist I spoke with is Chalkboy, who, as you may have guessed by his name, is approaching
06:22his art with a slightly different medium, Chalk.
06:25The thing with the Chalk is you don't need anything other than a bit of chalk and a wall.
06:30I find it personally quite powerful because everyone's picked up a bit of chalk when they're a child and done
06:36something with it.
06:37And is the chalk, is it graffiti? Is it street art? Is it legal? Is it not legal?
06:42And there are some pieces that I've done that are maybe under a bit of cover or something, so they'll
06:48be there for a while.
06:49But I've done ones like the Shared Space Globe was there for four hours, I think, before it went because
06:55people were just walking over it.
06:58So if people are interested in them, they're only there for a short amount of time.
07:04I find it like that. I'm not precious about it. It's like, just put it up and then it might
07:08rain in an hour and the whole lot will be gone.
07:10Yeah, I think it's got an innocence about it. Just writing stuff on, or drawing stuff in chalk, I think
07:17it's cool and simple.
07:18Other than the unknown legality around your work, why be an anonymous artist?
07:23Just for peace and quiet, really. Just to be able to go about your thing, go about your day-to
07:28-day life without being bothered, I think.
07:31But put the attention on the art, do you know what I mean? That's where it's at.
07:37People are always going to be interested in people, I think, especially in this modern day, but that's not for
07:43me.
07:44We've heard a lot of terms in these conversations. Murals, street art, graffiti. But what defines them and differentiates them
07:50from one another?
07:50I think it's kind of key as an artist to just do the things you want to do and express
07:55yourself and not try to steer it to a box on purpose,
07:59but just kind of do what feels right and let people decide what it is afterwards.
08:04Some people see graffiti as like the pure art form and street art is like a watered down version of
08:11it.
08:11But then some street artists might say that street art is the fully developed art form and that graffiti is
08:17like the primitive version of it.
08:19And yeah, I think maybe both of those things are true.
08:23Like the energy behind graffiti is far more interesting, in my opinion, than the energy between behind a street art
08:31piece that's been painted with permission.
08:32Like the medium is the message to some extent, like see something written illegally on the wall.
08:37It kind of has an extra energy with it than it might have if it was just put on a
08:42poster that was put up on like a legal advertising board.
08:45I think the line would be, they are different, but the line is very grey, very blurred.
08:51If someone goes into Poundland and buys a spray paint, a can and does a tag, they would get in
08:58trouble if they were caught and it would be called graffiti and vandalism.
09:01If Banksy comes down and does a massive thing, the whole world is celebrating. It's exactly the same thing. There's
09:06no difference.
09:07It's a guy with paint defacing something.
09:10So I think it's kind of all okay really.
09:12I mean, we're sat here talking about it, so do you know what I mean? It's got its place, it's
09:17got its purpose.
09:18And someone like Banksy didn't start off by doing incredible stencil work and getting millions of people to look at
09:25it for millions of pounds.
09:26I don't know this for a fact, but I would imagine he bought a can of spray paint somewhere and
09:30went around practicing with it.
09:32And it's a bit of a sort of a case of no mud, no lotus.
09:36Do you know what I mean? You've got to have **** to get the beautiful stuff.
09:41People need to learn, people need to practice.
09:42And also, I'm sure other people are putting this out, if you have a big white wall, you'll get 20
09:48little tags on it and then more tags.
09:50And then someone will do something a bit bigger and someone else will do something a bit bigger.
09:53And then a week later, there's an incredible wall mural on it by a well-known graffiti artist.
09:59It's all part of the process. I think it has to start somewhere.
10:03So what does the future for street art look like in Kent?
10:06We're encouraging every developer and every development or every business to get involved.
10:12If they have a space and they want to commission their own artists, it doesn't necessarily have to come out
10:17of the public funds or sponsorship funds.
10:19I would like residents to carry on reporting it because we want to, we can't have our eyes and ears
10:25everywhere.
10:26So residents, please carry on reporting and we will make sure that the graffiti is removed.
10:30I think anyone can, should be able to like have their, have their view, um, over whether they think like
10:38street art graffiti should exist or whether they like it or not.
10:43But, um, if there was a kind of rule in place that said like no street art and no graffiti
10:49can exist, I don't know how that would be put into action.
10:52But I also, I can't, I can't imagine a world where that would really be possible.
10:57What I'd say is sometimes you have to work outside the rules to cause like a positive impact in the
11:03world.
11:03I think there's loads of examples of that.
11:05And without sounding too big headed, that is the impact I'm trying to have on the world.
11:10Like I'm trying to make people, you know, think a little bit differently about the world we live in.
11:14Like even just seeing that a tag has been done illegally to me communicates the message that like, yes, there
11:20are rules,
11:21but it's down to you to decide which are the moral rules, which are the ones worth following.
11:25I prefer the world with a bit of chaos.
11:27Like I prefer the world with a bit of unpredictability.
11:30And I think that's the price worth paying for people occasionally being upset by seeing a tag somewhere that maybe
11:37it shouldn't be.
11:37It is what it is. It will be what it is.
11:39It's a, it's a big animal with lots of moving pieces in it.
11:43And it's, you know, that's what it is.
11:46Whether I'm in it or not in it, it's still going to be doing its thing.
