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00:00Why is it when I get divorced, I can look hot, but when I'm married, I can't.
00:05I'm like a mom with kids, but then when I leave my man, I can look hot again.
00:08It's weird.
00:09I'm like, shouldn't you be your best self or the person that loves you the most?
00:13Anything nice about female nature, people are just angry at.
00:17AOC is actually cool.
00:19The right needs to take notes from her.
00:21I think she has a ton of star power that people drastically underestimate.
00:35I am Lydia Moynihan, filling in for Miranda Devine on Pod Force One.
00:39Thank you so much for joining us.
00:41We are here with Brittany Hugo Boom today, who founded Evie Magazine and an app supporting Fertility with your husband
00:49as well.
00:50Yeah.
00:50Not with us, but thank you so much for joining us.
00:54So very interested to hear about Evie, which you launched this magazine because you were a young woman.
01:00You'd won a modeling competition at that point, but everything you kind of turned to, whether it was Cosmo, you
01:06wanted to read about skincare and fashion, and then suddenly you're inundated with articles about like Marxism and polycules and
01:13all kinds of wild things.
01:14So what did you see in the landscape and what made you realize there was an opportunity for a product
01:20like Evie Magazine?
01:22I'm honestly, as I was telling you before we started, I'm surprised that nobody had thought of anything similar, to
01:27be honest.
01:27I grew up, I was a huge magazine reader.
01:30I would go every Saturday to Barnes & Noble and I would read all the magazines and then I would
01:34read like manga and like literature.
01:36Like I was reading for hours and I'd hang out with friends.
01:39So I loved magazines and yeah, I entered a model search when I was like 16 and won for a
01:45magazine and it turned so odd.
01:50I started living in LA in the 2010s and like at the time everything became so rabid, like hardcore feminist,
01:57man-hating, women-hating, family-hating in the 2010s.
02:01You had the Jezebels, you had Vice did their turn, Refinery29, and I was like, where's like a magazine, like
02:08the magazine I used to read, but instead of like two pages praising Hillary Clinton in her pantsuits, celebrated, you
02:14know, beautiful women on the other side.
02:17And that's kind of like how we started and it wasn't, yeah, that was basically it.
02:24I didn't know anything.
02:25I had modeled and I knew a lot of photographers and I knew people in the health space and beauty
02:30space and I think my husband and I have a really great relationship.
02:34So I'm like we kind of hit all the categories that a classic women's magazine would have.
02:39So why don't you just do that?
02:41And I think it's even funny, a lot of liberal women will like the magazine because it's more pro like
02:46monogamy and like masculine men and femininity.
02:49And, yeah, they're just – it went pretty unhinged for a while in the late 2010s.
02:55Yeah, I mean in some ways it's still continuing.
02:57It is striking to me even I'm thinking about Vogue and I think Jill Biden was on the cover three
03:02times.
03:03I know Kamala Harris has graced it, Melania Trump, who's obviously a gorgeous woman and a model.
03:08She's never been on it.
03:10Why do you think there was this sort of bent that just really only targeted half the country?
03:16I don't know.
03:17No, I thought it was so odd too because I had never seen The Apprentice until last year, which is
03:22so odd because I loved Shark Tank and it's kind of similar.
03:25Yeah.
03:26And everybody loved him at the time and then they all turned on him and I think that's just –
03:31I think that's just so annoying.
03:32Like be loyal.
03:33I don't know.
03:34Maybe it's the Mexican in me.
03:35I'm like where's the loyalty here?
03:37But why do you think it was – and you highlighted Jezebel.
03:41And what's interesting is many of these magazines like Teen Vogue or Bustle – they've either gone bankrupt or closed
03:48or they're really struggling, have had to be restructured.
03:51Yeah.
03:52Do you think that kind of speaks to your thesis that their – that market was really saturated and people
03:57don't want to go to a fashion magazine to be lectured about politics?
04:02Yeah.
04:03It's funny.
04:03There are so many conspiracies about us.
04:05We must have like all these billionaires making our articles go viral and it's not true.
04:09It's just there are so many women that resonate with this like perspective that haven't gotten it.
04:15You know, I was in London last year and women were telling me like, hey, I'm just – I'm burnt
04:20out from everything I've been reading in magazines and I want a different path.
04:23And no one was really giving them it.
04:25So it's not some conspiracy that it's grown to how it has.
04:28We've never spent a dollar on marketing.
04:30Really?
04:31Never, no.
04:32Marketing campaigns are so fun for me.
04:33I can like come up with them in my sleep.
04:35I have such a blast doing it.
04:37But yeah, no, I think it just resonates with people and a lot of women felt alienated.
04:41Maybe they love beauty or style tips and they didn't have a magazine that didn't hate them, which is sad.
04:49But so you mentioned – I mean anybody can read even magazine.
04:52I think it's a much more welcoming sort of approach than what these sort of so-called mainstream magazines take.
04:59Our audience is surprisingly split.
05:01Like basically 33, 33, 33, 33, Republican, Democrat, Independent, which I don't think anyone has for the women 18, the
05:1034, 35 demo.
05:12So interesting.
05:14Yeah.
05:14And this is obviously happening too at a time where women are increasingly going towards more left-wing democratic politics.
05:24We've seen men in the country really go to the right and women to the left.
05:29Do you have a view on that?
05:32And is this magazine catering to them?
05:35Is it a reaction to that?
05:36How do you see Evie fitting into that sort of changing picture?
05:39Yeah, that's interesting you brought that up because I do think young women actually leaned more to the right in
05:442024 voting-wise than they have before.
05:48But we're really not a super political magazine.
05:51We're more celebrating femininity, love, beauty, romance, which I think that everyone can get on board with.
05:57Yeah.
05:58So even, you know, I've had people hate on the magazine for years, but they'll buy them and they'll buy
06:05our dresses and they'll wear them and they're like, oh my gosh, like my husband's obsessed with me when I
06:09wear this dress.
06:10Like it kind of backfires on them.
06:12And we even had like a trans person buy the magazine by accident apparently in New York City and gave
06:19it a lot of compliments.
06:20So I think that people, especially like Gen Z and really Gen Alpha too, which is a much younger demo,
06:26really resonate with the content and like don't want the hyperpolarization that we've seen in the past.
06:33It's funny to me that because fashion and entertainment has gotten so transgressive and it feels like there's always this
06:41movement towards being so shocking, right?
06:44Like Lady Gaga, she can't wear a nice dress.
06:45She has to wear a meat dress to stand out.
06:48And so in a way, because of these sort of crazy out there ads and films, being normal is almost
06:59radical in its own way.
07:01Yeah, it was so interesting too because I know like – I say it's so interesting a lot, but –
07:06Oh, that's fine.
07:06It's also my tick.
07:07Yeah.
07:08I say it's interesting.
07:09I say that too.
07:10Interesting.
07:10And I think somebody called it out and I was like, oh, I do.
07:14Better than the alternative.
07:15I don't know.
07:16I say like a lot too.
07:17Uninteresting.
07:17It's very California though.
07:19I'm like I just blame being from California, which is a cope for sure.
07:23But, you know, when we started Evie at the time, there was like the Cosmo UK cover that was like
07:27this is healthy and it was an obese person on the cover.
07:29And we would talk to people and they're like, what do you want different in the Evie branding?
07:33And every single person was like, oh, you should have more body positivity.
07:37And they said it over and over and over.
07:38And I'm like it's not revolutionary and it tells me you can't really think for yourself when you're all saying
07:45the same exact thing.
07:46Like when Skims did it, you have Kim Kardashian as the face who's still stunning.
07:50Everybody wants to look like her or Rihanna for her brand, Savage X Fenty.
07:54But it's like it just felt authentic to the brand.
07:58Yeah.
07:58But they had this problem even in L.A. when I was modeling in the 2010s.
08:02Like I know Glossier was huge.
08:04And then every makeup brand was like Glossier, Moodboard.
08:07Everyone wanted to be Glossier.
08:09And it's like let them be them and you be you.
08:12And you look at Charlotte Tilbury who's been true to them.
08:15Obviously, they're London based.
08:16But like they always had the Hollywood glamour.
08:18Or you have like, you know, all the beauty brands that are doing well are the ones that are authentic
08:23to them.
08:24And it's like you shouldn't try to chase trends.
08:27Yeah.
08:27I'm like not a trend chaser at all.
08:30And I would rather just start them.
08:32I like that.
08:32And you did start a trend.
08:34The Milkmaid dress was one of the more.
08:37I will say Milkmaid dresses were popular.
08:39Everyone's like Evie thinks they started the Milkmaid dress trend.
08:42I will say they were popular.
08:44But it was a marketing to an extent.
08:45I thought it was fun.
08:47It was super fun.
08:48Did you see that campaign?
08:50Very nostalgic.
08:51And Penny Lane, right?
08:52The model.
08:53Yeah.
08:54She's now gotten.
08:55She's gotten huge now.
08:56Huge.
08:57Yeah.
08:57I'm just so happy for her.
08:59We met her at a party I think a couple years ago and booked her for 28.
09:02And she resonated a lot with the app.
09:04And she's just fantastic.
09:06I love to see girls like that like winning.
09:09Do you think body positivity, especially with now,
09:13some of my glute tides have made it possible for kind of anyone to be thin?
09:17Right.
09:17Do you think the era of body positivity is over?
09:20Yeah, for sure.
09:21Okay.
09:21Yeah.
09:21But I do think.
09:22I don't think we're going to see a woke backlash to that.
09:24I do think like the scary skinny thing is a bit concerning though.
09:30Yeah.
09:31I think body, which is Evie has said this back in 2019,
09:34body positivity should mean treating our bodies positively.
09:37And that's what we mean.
09:38And if you look at the 90s supermodels, if you look at those girls,
09:41they're usually like a size four or whatever.
09:43They work out.
09:44They're fit.
09:44They look incredible.
09:46Yeah.
09:46The iconic American supermodel.
09:47That's what I love.
09:48Yeah.
09:48I'm not saying obviously, you know, become anorexic,
09:51but I'm just saying like be positive towards your body.
09:55Yeah.
09:56Yeah.
09:58How political – because you will personally weigh in, you know,
10:01on X, on different issues.
10:04You've weighed in on Sophie Cunningham.
10:06Are those issues that you as a magazine want to speak to
10:09to sort of give women guidance or kind of acknowledge
10:12what's happening in the culture?
10:13Oh, my gosh.
10:14I reached out to Sophie Cunningham.
10:16You did?
10:16Yeah.
10:16I wanted to shoot her and her –
10:18She's gorgeous.
10:19She's gorgeous.
10:19It was before she blew up.
10:21This always happens to me.
10:22I'm like this person is going to blow up.
10:23You see it.
10:24Addison Rae, I was like she's going to blow up.
10:26We have a shoot planned.
10:27And then like the next week she gets this agent at William Morris
10:30who's like she's not doing anything.
10:31And with Sophie, she has an exclusive,
10:34which I don't even know if I can say or what magazine it is.
10:36So we can't shoot with her right now.
10:37But I'd wanted to shoot her before the virality.
10:43And this is what most people believe.
10:45And it's like why is this a big deal?
10:47You know, like women play sports with women.
10:50Like I grew up doing martial arts.
10:51Like I don't know.
10:52It's how is this even like –
10:54I look at what happened to Gina Carano back then.
10:56And it's just so stupid.
10:58She's just not even a political person.
11:00She's the sweetest girl in the world.
11:01And I was so annoyed that nobody stood up for her.
11:04Yeah.
11:04It really ticked me off.
11:06And –
11:07For folks who don't know, like myself actually, who is Gina Carano?
11:10So Gina Carano was in Star Wars.
11:13Okay.
11:13Oh, yes.
11:13She was in The Mandalorian.
11:14Yes.
11:14And she was a big –
11:15She was basically the reason why women in MMA became a thing.
11:19She was like this beautiful –
11:20She still is this gorgeous MMA fighter.
11:23And she had gotten canceled during the COVID vaccine era.
11:27Right.
11:27Okay.
11:28And just such an angel.
11:30And I see this and I just like –
11:32It really bothers me when people don't have a loyalty to girls like that.
11:35But then she came back and she did her fight with Ronda Rousey.
11:38And now she's like, you know, doing other things.
11:41It is so interesting with Sophie Cunningham or so many of these women who –
11:46They're just – yeah, they're saying something that 80% of Americans believe.
11:50It's not – to me, what she said was so not controversial.
11:54No.
11:54And yet, for some reason, magazines and the media has like made it to safe space for the 20%
12:00of women or 20% of people who don't believe what the vast majority of Americans believe.
12:06And you're expelled from sort of these like elite institutions if you have a normal opinion.
12:12Yeah.
12:13It's so dumb.
12:13I think it's changing because I noticed that Sports Illustrated posted their shoot with her afterwards.
12:19And that would never have happened like three, four years ago.
12:21But I think brands really need to understand like look at Sydney Sweeney with American Eagle.
12:28Look at Sophie Cunningham.
12:29She had her Adidas drop.
12:30Right.
12:30That's sold out.
12:31It's about – why are brands, just from a business perspective, not utilizing girls who are a little more controversial
12:38for their marketing if they want to make money?
12:41Right.
12:41Like nobody cares about a girl who has no opinion whatsoever.
12:43And you kind of look at why influencer culture is dying because it's like I'm watching these girls.
12:48They're pretty.
12:49They're in their dresses.
12:50But like what do they do?
12:52Like what do they stand for?
12:53You don't really know.
12:53And I think that's why you look at someone like Alex Earl who's become so big, you know who she
12:59is and like her values and you can choose to support her or not or whatever.
13:03But it's like I think people are gravitating towards that.
13:06And I think it's a really – it's a misstep for brands to not lean more into that.
13:12And I'm not saying go for like super political influencers because I don't think they convert well.
13:19But like the girls like – you know, I'm not going to say who.
13:22But there are girls that I would choose to be a face of a huge brand for sure.
13:28Have any of your cover stars or people you've worked with, have they gotten backlash for working with you?
13:37That's a good question.
13:38I don't really know.
13:39So one girl I found on Instagram – I kind of like to do a mix of I love discovering
13:43beautiful new faces.
13:44Like I was speaking at a college about business and this girl comes up to me and is like I
13:49want to intern for you.
13:49And I was like why don't you model for me?
13:51You're gorgeous.
13:52And we just shot her in London and the cover is going to come out soon.
13:56But I love discovering beautiful faces because back then Sports Illustrated would do that.
14:03You'd have like Irina shake and she'd blow up and it was like this beautiful new girl.
14:07And then they stopped doing it and now it's like the same kind of Nepo babies over and over, which
14:12is fine.
14:12That's so true.
14:13Yeah, you're not really – we're not really discovering.
14:15You don't discover new faces anymore because that's a whole other story maybe for another podcast.
14:20But they're not discovering beautiful faces and I love doing that.
14:23And so I like to do a mix between gorgeous faces and then like cultural phenomenons.
14:30And I never ask the girls who they're voting for on set or anything.
14:34I have no idea who any of them voted for.
14:38But one of the girls, yeah, I booked her.
14:40I saw her on Instagram and then our friends own an agency in Hawaii and they repped her like a
14:44couple years later.
14:45And I was like, oh my gosh, this is incredible.
14:47And after we shot her, Candace Swanpole booked her for Tropic of Sea and she made the Maxim Hot 100
14:53and they were like, thank you, Evie, for like finding this girl.
14:57Wow.
14:57And then obviously after the ballerina farm cover, it was like –
15:01Which for folks who don't know because that was –
15:03Oh my gosh.
15:03So she is the sort of original trad wife is the internet term because she has a farm.
15:10She has, gosh, 10 kids with her husband.
15:13Nine.
15:14Nine.
15:14Yeah.
15:14Juilliard educated and then chose to live a much more traditional rural life.
15:20Yeah.
15:20Where she has a much more traditional role and yet she's making a fortune.
15:25Right.
15:26It's so funny because –
15:27As a trad wife.
15:28I was trying to explain this to a friend who was like, explain the trad wife phenomenon to me.
15:33Like, I don't know it.
15:34And I was like, oh my gosh, it's so long.
15:36But with Nara Smith and Hannah Nealman, they kind of became the faces of the trad wife movement even though
15:42both from the beginning said that they were not and they are not.
15:46They've always said we're co-CEOs.
15:48You know, we work with our husband.
15:49Like, which I guess is kind of traditional to be honest.
15:52But like it was odd because the media were like – was like, oh my gosh, like they don't want
15:58women to work.
15:59They don't want women to vote.
16:00They don't want – I'm like, these women don't say anything.
16:02And I actually think that they were hated on the most because they're beautiful, they're rich, and they have it
16:08all.
16:09And people were, I guess, projecting.
16:11Yeah.
16:12I do feel like there's a strain of feminism that is a lot of resentment.
16:16Yeah.
16:16People feel very angry and resentful and then project that on other people.
16:20Yeah.
16:21Like, I'm so fat, like postpartum for like a year and I could never do a pageant.
16:25And I saw her do her pageant.
16:27I think I had my second kid.
16:28She had her eighth.
16:28And I was like, wow, good for her.
16:31Like, go girl.
16:31And that was when I first found out about her.
16:33Yeah.
16:34Because some of our team liked her because they work on farms and stuff.
16:36I'm not like a farm girl.
16:39But I was like, oh, that's super cool.
16:41I had never seen so much backlash for her doing a pageant and being in shape like two weeks postpartum.
16:47It's like, why can't we celebrate each other's gifts?
16:50Right.
16:51Like, just because she looks amazing doesn't mean that you're a terrible – like, I don't know.
16:55It just doesn't make sense to me.
16:55Right.
16:55It's not an indictment on somebody who doesn't compete in a pageant.
17:00But it just feels like there's just sort of this knee-jerk backlash against anything that's traditionally feminine.
17:05Yeah.
17:05It's just stupid.
17:06Anyways.
17:07That's very interesting because that was – I mean, gosh, she has 10 million followers.
17:11Yeah.
17:11I genuinely think if she wasn't beautiful and rich and happy, nobody would care.
17:17That's what they're coming for her for.
17:18And, I mean, that was sort of the same reaction to the Sidney Sweeney campaign.
17:23Yeah.
17:24And because she likes men.
17:26And it's so odd to me because, like, my husband will, like, bring me a huge bouquet every year.
17:32He's so romantic.
17:34And, like, girls love it.
17:36They're like – even liberal girls are like, oh, my gosh, your husband's, like, you know, taking photos of you.
17:39Like, he's so proud.
17:40He's such, like, a – he's so inspiring to me.
17:43But if I'm like, wow, I just adore him, then it's like you're a slave to the man.
17:48It's so stupid.
17:49It's, like –
17:49And it's something that most women want to get married.
17:52They want to have kids.
17:53And yet to acknowledge that or celebrate it.
17:56Yeah.
17:56And I think Evie is such a safe space for that, to have, like, traditional femininity and celebrating that instead
18:04of making women feel crazy for wanting such a fundamental basic thing.
18:10It's, like, you can do things, but you have to look good for you.
18:13You can never do anything for a man, but then men should do things for you.
18:16That's actually – that's so true.
18:18That's so true.
18:19Yeah.
18:19If you say, oh, I want to look good for my husband.
18:21Oh, my gosh.
18:23Yeah.
18:23We had an article that went – I think our first viral article on Substack, and it was I'm a
18:28hot mom, and I'm tired of being mom-shamed for it.
18:31And one of my mom friends, like, did a TikTok.
18:36She was like, I'm a MILF, and I'm tired of being – and I was like, girl, this is a
18:38banger.
18:39Write this for Evie.
18:40And so she had two sets of twins naturally and a fifth in, like, three years.
18:46Like, she met her husband.
18:48She was, like, 33, 34.
18:49She's – he's like, I want four kids.
18:50She's like, I don't know if we can have four.
18:52Bam, bam, bam.
18:53She's 37.
18:54I has five kids.
18:56And she said she was, like, going to an appointment.
18:59I can't remember if it was, like, a boob job or, like, a hair appointment, whatever it was.
19:04And she was like, I want to look good for my husband.
19:06And they were like, why?
19:07Like, you're not getting divorced?
19:08Like, why do you care?
19:10And she's like, wait, why is it when I get divorced I can look hot?
19:14Right.
19:15But when I'm married, I can't.
19:17I'm, like, a mom with kids.
19:18But then when I leave my man, I can look hot again.
19:20Right.
19:20Like, it's weird.
19:21I'm like, shouldn't you be your best self for the person that loves you the most?
19:24And that's also just the best advice that you could give a woman is to stay married.
19:30Be the best version of you.
19:31Be the best version of you.
19:32Right.
19:33And it's so –
19:34People didn't like that article, though.
19:36That's crazy.
19:37Yeah.
19:37Like, I don't know.
19:38It is insane to me that we – that's such common sense that other women should actually
19:43share with other women.
19:44Yeah.
19:45Because that is actually going to make you happier.
19:46Right.
19:47If you stay married to the man you have five children with and you look good for him and
19:51he stays faithful to you, like, that's truly the best advice.
19:53Yeah.
19:54No, when I meet Evie readers, like, they are, like, the most beautiful, sweet, happy, romantic
20:00girls.
20:00Like, usually in their 20s, our audience is younger, but, like, they're just so – like,
20:05you just see the joy.
20:07And, yeah.
20:08My colleague Miranda Devine – this is her podcast – she recently wrote about the sort
20:14of phenomenon of AOC, which has taken over everything online.
20:20People have been obsessed with AOC's egg-brazing journey, which I think – I do think – I'm
20:26not critical of her at all for that, but she did put that out there for people, so I think
20:29it's fair to comment on it.
20:30I don't think you're revealing some sort of detail.
20:34But she really juxtaposed in her story what maybe more leftist sort of people have pushed
20:39women to do, putting family on hold at the same time that Caroline Lovett, who's a mom
20:44of two young kids, decided to step down, to spend more time with her family.
20:49I'm curious – well, first, I just want to get your reaction to the AOC egg-freezing
20:54journey, what you make of all of that.
20:56Yeah.
20:57I think, you know, interestingly, one of our first articles, I think, for Evie was how
21:01AOC is actually cool and how the right needs to take notes from her.
21:06I think she has a ton of star power that people drastically underestimate.
21:13The problem with the whole egg-freezing thing is it's like the woman who's on the cover
21:17of Bloomberg in 2014.
21:19It's like she froze her eggs and then held off her career and then later tried to unfreeze
21:25her eggs and all of them failed.
21:26And she ended up having to get a donor egg and donor sperm, and then she finally had a
21:30baby at 45.
21:31But we're not saying all women should have kids.
21:34Kids, but if you want to have kids, we're saying there are seasons in your life where
21:38you should prioritize it.
21:39Yeah.
21:40And it does get harder as you get older.
21:43My first reaction when I saw that was I thought she had a long-term fiancé, but I feel like
21:49when you really like a guy, you just want to have his babies.
21:52Yeah.
21:52So I'm like, I just feel like it wasn't the fit.
21:56Yeah.
21:56And it just kind of seems like it was a relationship, which I don't want to judge them.
22:00I've never met them, but where it seemed to just like waste time and now she's like
22:04doing – and it's just like a very unfortunate situation.
22:06But it's very common.
22:07I think –
22:08It's very expensive too.
22:09It's very expensive.
22:11Yeah.
22:11And to your point, it's not effective.
22:13It doesn't really work usually, yeah.
22:16But I do think – so my take on AOC is I think the way that the left has Trump
22:22derangement
22:22syndrome, where they just reflexively criticize him for anything, right?
22:26He could cure cancer and people would be like, oh, actually, cancer is good, right?
22:29Whatever he does, people reflexively hate him.
22:32Yeah.
22:33And I think that's a superpower for the right.
22:35Yeah.
22:36In the same way, I was really surprised to see there's sort of an AOC derangement syndrome
22:40on the right.
22:41Oh, for sure.
22:41And I think all of her policies are disastrous and problematic.
22:45Yeah.
22:45But to reflexively criticize somebody for anything they do is a bad thing.
22:51And I think there was something about her and many of the women that she is appealing
22:54to because a lot of young women love her.
22:57Yeah.
22:57There was something about that message of putting family on a hold that clearly resonated
23:03and that was in line with the sort of orthodoxy that Democrats believe in, that you should.
23:09That is the right approach.
23:11And it is – it's tough.
23:13You know, she's in the late millennial demographic.
23:15And if I have to say one demo usually gets upset at Evie the most, it's 37 to 43.
23:21Like it's not Gen X.
23:22It's not Gen Z.
23:23It's not young millennials like 30 to 35.
23:25It is her age group.
23:27Huh.
23:27And I think a lot of them do feel like they were lied to in a lot of ways.
23:33Like they had to do all these things.
23:35And in America, it's like a very individualistic country, which is incredible for innovation.
23:40You know, when you look at courageous people, they're going to be American.
23:43But at the same time, sometimes with the kind of more female nature, I feel like we've kind of shut
23:52that off a bit.
23:53When you look at like the birth control pill, when you look at here, take a pill, work, delay, it
23:58kind of seems like everything that is feminine nature has been considered a crux.
24:03Like it's like every month, oh, I have – like instead of using it as a superpower and as a
24:07positive, it's like if you're beautiful, you know, it's the patriarchy.
24:11If you're charming, if you're like thin, you know, maybe you're judging people.
24:16Just like weird stuff where it's like anything nice about female nature, people are just angry at.
24:21Yeah.
24:21Which has just led to –
24:24The anti-feminist thing.
24:25Yeah.
24:25I mean it is – yeah, it's interesting.
24:26I think there's all these different waves of feminism, but maybe you're sort of the truest feminist because you're not
24:33telling women like be just like a guy, right?
24:36Suppress every part of who you are to succeed.
24:41Yeah.
24:41I think that women should succeed using their femininity.
24:44I think that's like the strongest power that a woman has.
24:47You know, when you look at Marilyn Monroe, you look at Cleopatra, like every woman who was considered like powerful
24:53in her time, she used her femininity.
24:55And you look at Sydney Sweeney now with her star power.
24:57It's like she is the first one who came out and was like ultra feminine when it was at a
25:02time where it was kind of more androgynous and everyone had like all the baggy stuff.
25:06And she was like, I'm just going to like Hollywood movie star classic it and really resonated in that way.
25:14What do you think – so Alex Cooper is the largest female podcaster with the largest female audience.
25:21And people are very critical because she obviously began her career talking about very promiscuous things.
25:26That was the entire podcast.
25:30And now she has made that journey.
25:32She's married.
25:33She's about to have a baby.
25:35What do you make of her and her messaging?
25:38So I'm obviously not like the demo for her podcast.
25:43I'm very like – yeah, I'm very pro.
25:45You know, I met my husband at 18.
25:47You know, I'm a romantic.
25:48I love love.
25:49I love like Lana Del Rey and Olivia Dean and like just the romantics.
25:53Obviously not like sleeping around and all that stuff.
25:56But at the same time, I think she kind of embodies the feminist, you can have it all, you can
26:00do it all.
26:02And I think a lot of people on the right were upset because she got married and had a kid.
26:07I think maybe it is a PR thing.
26:11You know, she was getting a lot of bad PR with her business and how her husband's treating workers.
26:15And then like she has a baby and now in podcast, she's like, oh, don't comment for me.
26:19I'm pregnant.
26:19Right, right.
26:20So I don't know.
26:21I saw an interview where she was asked about some pretty scandalous tawdry decisions and that was her cop-out.
26:28But yeah, I am team Alex Earl.
26:30I'll say that.
26:31Okay.
26:31I don't know if we have time to get into the Alex Alex saga.
26:36But you mentioned the birth control thing and you were very early on what's sort of now known as Maha.
26:43And that was another thing where it's like every woman I know, literally they hit 12 and they're put on
26:50the – which is a crazy societal shift to see.
26:53And now in the span of a couple years, that's been almost completely undone.
27:00Yeah.
27:00But for the first time women, it's like it's cool.
27:02Yeah.
27:02To at least consider it.
27:05Yeah.
27:05And it's not weird.
27:07Yeah.
27:07How was that – was that an issue that you identified early on?
27:13Oh, man.
27:13What is your – I know.
27:14What is your take on that?
27:16So it's so funny.
27:17Again, when we started – and I talked about this in Bananby Fair.
27:21We had kind of like – my husband grew up.
27:23His mom would like make everything from scratch, like kind of like a Nara Smith.
27:28So when I met him, we started dating.
27:30We go to Whole Foods.
27:31I had never been to Whole Foods.
27:32I didn't know the difference between organic and inorganic milk.
27:34I was like, which one do you like?
27:35I want to get you a present.
27:37And I grew up on microwave pizzas and I love my parents.
27:41I had an amazing – I don't want to say anything like I grew up with amazing parents, but like
27:46we grew up on trash food, which is kind of great in the sense of like I'm not picky, but
27:50like obviously not great for my health.
27:53But so when I met him and then I moved to L.A., all my friends were like models and
27:59they all had like glass jars and they would drink water and they wouldn't have plastic because of microplastics.
28:05Very crunchy.
28:06It was so crunchy.
28:07We were like super maha.
28:08And then a couple of my friends trained the Victoria's Secret models and so I'm working out with them and
28:14they're talking about how all the VS girls are getting off the pill because it's causing weight gain and bloating
28:20and acne and mood swings and all these things.
28:22And I was like, wait, why isn't nobody talking about this?
28:25Yeah.
28:25So I start looking at Dr. Jolene Bryden, start learning about Dr. Sarah Hill, and I was like, wow, this
28:30is crazy.
28:32And I always wanted to like work out like the supermodels or do things that they did because they look
28:36amazing.
28:36And those were the original Cosmo articles, how to look like a Victoria's Secret model.
28:41So I was like, why isn't nobody talking about this?
28:43So we start talking about it and people on the right were like upset.
28:46They're like, why aren't you talking about abortion?
28:47And we're like, this is like a totally different topic.
28:49What are you talking about?
28:50And then people on the left were like, oh my gosh, Handmaid's Tale.
28:52They want people to have a million kids.
28:53And I'm like, all I'm saying is why isn't nobody talking about the side effects of the pill?
28:57Right.
28:57Now, a lot of people who are in the Maha movement were like EV readers.
29:01And then a lot of them kind of became Maha after and they would read it and they, you know.
29:07So then it became, it's kind of like, I always did Pilates growing up.
29:11And now people are like, oh my gosh, Pilates girls are so EV coded as if that's like a negative.
29:16Like if you wear a dress and go to Pilates, like it's like a derangement syndrome.
29:20And I'm like, okay, so you don't want Pilates.
29:23You don't want sundresses.
29:24You want to be on the pill.
29:25Like, okay, like fine.
29:27You know, it's odd.
29:28Yeah.
29:28It's almost just anything that seems vaguely traditional.
29:32Yeah.
29:33Like we were on the cover of the Washington Post and it was like, is the sundress political now?
29:38And it was like our dress.
29:39And it's like, why is all of a sudden, you know, us doing Pilates and talking about the pill turn
29:46into this whole culture war?
29:47But I think it's just the drive clicks, to be honest.
29:49Okay.
29:50Okay.
29:50That's fair.
29:50But it is kind of unfortunate that if you are a more conservative woman and you just want to be
29:56a girl and you just want to look cute.
29:58Yeah.
29:58But she's like an L.A. girl.
30:00Political.
30:00Yeah.
30:01It's crazy.
30:02Okay.
30:03So speaking of birth control, and you've been very vocal too about vaccines, all of this in a way that's
30:10been – at a time, I guess, where this has been so controversial.
30:14And I even remember during the vaccine, one of the doctors said to me, oh, it's totally safe because you're
30:20much more likely to die of a blood clot on birth control.
30:23And my first thought was like, wait, people are getting blood clots on birth control?
30:26That was the first negative thing I'd ever heard about birth control.
30:28That's interesting.
30:29So my takeaway was more to be alarmed about birth control.
30:33But you've also been very vocal about vaccines.
30:37Yeah.
30:38How does that fit into the magazine and trying to sort of – I mean, would you say Evie's more
30:45fashion, health, or all of the above?
30:48I guess how would you describe it?
30:49I would just say ultra-feminine in all the categories and trying to have women be the best version of
30:55themselves.
30:56And when you look at kind of the vaccine thing – it started with the COVID vaccine.
30:59I was pregnant at the time.
31:00And my nurse and OBJYN, they were both like, hey, like, don't get the vaccine.
31:05We've seen a record number of stillborns.
31:07Like, don't do it.
31:08And, like, I wasn't going to anyway.
31:11But I was like, can you guys write about this for Evie?
31:13And nobody would go on the record for me.
31:15They're like, we will not go on the record.
31:17We're going to lose our license.
31:18So it was at a time where I'm like, all these people are being forced to take this vaccine.
31:23And even all my liberal friends in L.A., like I said, who are super crunchy, didn't want to take
31:28it.
31:28And they're like, what's going on?
31:29And I'm like, all right, I'm going to be, you know, the one who, like, throws it out there.
31:33And then I ended up getting, you know, conspiracy, whatever.
31:36But it was like everybody's different.
31:41Everyone has different workouts that affect them differently.
31:43They have different diets that affect them differently.
31:45You have different blood types.
31:47Like some blood type, you know, does better with other food.
31:49You know, people can argue against that.
31:51But that's what Miranda Kerr and a lot of those girls do.
31:55And there's no one size fits all for anything.
31:58So I'm like, the fact that people are being forced to take that I thought was asinine.
32:02And a lot of our employees now at Evie were girls who, like, were being forced at other companies to
32:07take it.
32:08Interesting.
32:09And didn't want to.
32:09And I'm like, come to Evie, we're not going to do it.
32:11So we were the only publication I'm aware of that was not pro-forcing it from the beginning.
32:19Probably New York Post, too.
32:20I don't want to say.
32:20Otherwise, but we were not pro-forcing it from the beginning.
32:24So we've always had very consistent stances.
32:26And I credit that to women's intuition.
32:28Do you think that the Maha movement that has reached an entirely new sort of audience of people?
32:36I think RFKJ was really important, obviously, in sort of expanding people's interest in politics who otherwise wouldn't have taken
32:43a position.
32:44Do you think that will continue sort of as a voting block?
32:48I know you're not political, but I'm curious to get your take.
32:50Yeah.
32:51No, I definitely think it will.
32:52I think that the merging of kind of the more liberal crunchiness with like, you know, the aesthetics and like
32:59the good things that they've done over on the right was a good call out.
33:03And I think that it's only going to become bigger.
33:05I think there will be a bit of crunchy burnout.
33:09I think that there's just so much like there's everything and everything.
33:14And I think some women are going to get a little burnt out.
33:16And I think it's better to be low cortisol than like perfect in that way.
33:21And like kind of psychologically, oh, I have to have like a non-toxic this and that and that.
33:26Right.
33:26It can be overwhelming to try to.
33:29But.
33:29All of the healthy things.
33:30Yeah, I do.
33:31I love Alex Clark.
33:32And my friend Hannah is starting a non-plastic bra, like lingerie company.
33:37Interesting.
33:37So I am very excited about that.
33:39I am going to be switching.
33:40Okay.
33:41Yeah.
33:41Okay.
33:42You heard it here first.
33:43Yeah.
33:43Just to kind of wrap up Evie as well.
33:47I mean, with the articles, because you will write about social issues, right?
33:52Like premarital sex, abortion, all of these things.
33:55Is that something that you – the magazine has a viewpoint on or you as editor will kind of –
34:01and do you see that even as political or do you just see that as sort of helping women make
34:07the best choices for themselves?
34:09At the end of the day, it's just helping women make the best choices for themselves.
34:12So I don't really see that as political.
34:15Yeah.
34:16Yeah.
34:16Not really.
34:18Common sense.
34:18Maybe everyone else – everyone thinks Pilates and sundresses are political.
34:21So it's like everything's political, you know?
34:24Just living your life.
34:25Yeah.
34:25I think – maybe that's the takeaway too is it's not even – most people don't want to be political,
34:29but there are so many political people out there that just living your life with freedom and having a traditional
34:36family is sort of shocking.
34:39Yeah.
34:40There's a ton of libertarians that, you know, vote right or whatever.
34:44And it's like – I don't know.
34:46I think that the media has become so polarizing and I think people are going to be so checked out
34:51of it.
34:52Yeah.
34:52I think people are just kind of over it.
34:54Do you feel like you have been received by like models and photographers and people more in the industry or
35:02do you –
35:03People in the industry I think crack up with Evie because we had like the shoot, for example, with Hannah
35:10Nealman from Ballerina Farm and –
35:12The trad wife.
35:13The trad wife.
35:14And I guarantee like – I don't ask like who you voted for or whatever.
35:18I just like to book the best people for the job.
35:20Like I guess that's kind of Reagan.
35:22I just like to book the best creatives.
35:24And for the vision I had for the shoot, you know, I picked the team and people were so upset.
35:30They were like, you know, she's not realistic and all this stuff.
35:32And the team's like, she's on a magazine cover.
35:35Duh, she's not realistic.
35:36Then I think people were so confused by the just total vitriol.
35:41Yeah.
35:41Even like I did a podcast with a liberal girl and she just got killed.
35:45They're like, why are you having them on?
35:47Like all this stuff.
35:48And she's like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
35:49This is crazy.
35:50And it's like, why?
35:52Because nobody is forcing you to buy my $50 magazine.
35:56Right.
35:57Like –
35:57No one's forcing you to get off the pill.
35:59No one's forcing you to log in the evmagazine.com and read the articles.
36:04You're literally just presenting an alternative to 90% of mainstream media.
36:09Just type in, you know, Allure or whoever you want to go to and it's great.
36:13And I love other magazines as well.
36:16Like –
36:16But it's not – yeah, it's crazy.
36:17It's not even like you're telling people get off birth control.
36:19You're just saying, oh, maybe –
36:21Yeah.
36:21Maybe there's side effects.
36:22Yeah.
36:23I'm not saying ban it.
36:23I'm just saying there might be side effects.
36:25And I learned that from models.
36:26And if you want to keep doing it, then do it.
36:28Like nobody cares.
36:29Right.
36:30Right.
36:30It's a free country.
36:31And then – so you also have an app.
36:33Yes.
36:34And the two are sort of combined.
36:36And you started both with your husband.
36:39Yes.
36:39So they're separate companies.
36:41Yes.
36:42With separate teams, separate like cap tables, separate everything.
36:46And so that's probably confusing the people.
36:48But ultimately, you know, my husband and I love, like I said, marketing and branding.
36:53And we want to create different products.
36:55And kind of the goal with Evie was to create this platform and then create products under
37:00the platform for our audience that they would love.
37:04So that was like ultimately the goal.
37:07And with 28, we had just realized –
37:10Which is like fertility and tracking.
37:11Yeah.
37:12It's like – so it's fitness, nutrition, and wellness and insights based on where you
37:15are in your cycle.
37:16So it's like all the workouts were like done by supermodel trainers to like lean you
37:20out and balance your hormones.
37:21So I've had girls get on it.
37:22They're like, I've lost 15 pounds in two months and my skin is glowing and all these
37:26things and I don't have painful periods because it's not – it shouldn't be normal,
37:30but it is kind of normal.
37:33But yeah, no.
37:34I mean 28 is amazing.
37:35I use it every single day.
37:37Okay.
37:38Yeah.
37:38Okay.
37:39How was it for your husband working in such a sort of female-focused –
37:45Yeah.
37:47Environment, unfemale-focused products.
37:49Well, it's funny because he doesn't – he's not really in editorial.
37:52Yeah.
37:52So sometimes he'll be like, wait, what is this article from like – I'm like, wait,
37:55did you read this?
37:56This – I don't think he's like – you know, he's not in editorial.
37:59I don't know what he's –
37:59He's not down the rabbit hole with.
38:00No.
38:02He gets annoyed with the haters because he's like – you know, he thinks that I'm like
38:06the greatest wife and all this.
38:08He's like, why are they coming for you?
38:09He's just like, screw them.
38:10I'm like, it's a good thing that he's not on social media because –
38:14Oh, he's not at all?
38:15He has like an Instagram, but I think it's private.
38:17But he's just a lot more – he's very bold and courageous and it's very sexy.
38:22But like he'd probably come for people in a way that I'm like the sweeter half, I guess.
38:29Yeah.
38:32But yeah, he doesn't really do the editorial, but he loves – we're both Libras, which
38:37I know is like a very LA thing, but we both love like beauty and romance and so we don't
38:41really work together with the magazine or anything, but we'll come together for like
38:45a marketing campaign.
38:48And you do some of the photos – you're in the photos as a model.
38:51No, I try not to be.
38:52I did – Gucci asked me to be in it, so I did like a partnership with Gucci, but like
38:59yeah, not – I try to book other models.
39:02I'm like – I try to book girls who read the magazines who are models, which is cool.
39:06I like – I want to make it like a whole community.
39:08It's like you go to the New York Fashion Week party, you're in the magazine, you read
39:10the magazine, like a whole fun community.
39:13But my husband does like the engineer stuff on 28.
39:16So he's like – when you see the app, getting better and better.
39:19Do you have a lot of other brand partnerships or work with –
39:22We don't have a ton yet.
39:23We're getting into that, so I'm excited about that.
39:26Yeah.
39:27But every time we do a brand partnership, we convert like crazy.
39:30Interesting.
39:31So even like LAPR, they're like – I know, you know, Evie, but like they're like you
39:36guys are the only ones that convert.
39:38So, you know, we did a partnership with –
39:40And for folks who don't know, it basically means that people are actually –
39:42Buying our products.
39:43Engaged.
39:44Yes.
39:44A lot of people, especially on social media, will just scroll and they don't
39:47look and purchase anything as a result.
39:49Yeah.
39:50And it's like the raw milkmaid dress.
39:51I think that did six figures in like less than 48 hours.
39:53Like most SKUs don't do that.
39:55And with Brittany Aldean, we did her Vada perfume.
39:58We were the exclusive.
40:00And other media was like, you know, Brittany Aldean only did the thing with Evie, but for
40:05some reason like their numbers are much higher than anyone expected.
40:08And I'm like, well, when people partner with us, it's good for their brand because our
40:13audience loves our products.
40:14And they trust you and your judgment.
40:18Yeah.
40:18And we're picky, you know.
40:19We're not going to like give you something crap, you know.
40:21Yeah.
40:22Yeah.
40:23So Peter Thiel is an investor in the app.
40:26It's so funny.
40:28People have very strong opinions about him.
40:31What has it been like working with him or not even working with him?
40:34I mean, you pitched him many years ago on this concept and he seemed very open to it.
40:38Yeah.
40:38It's funny because that happened.
40:41I think he invested like two months before Roe v. Wade was overturned.
40:46And I didn't even know that it was on the table.
40:49Like I didn't know it would be overturned.
40:51So I was surprised.
40:52But then it turned into this lady on Substack was like, you know, oh, they just want like
40:59it overturned.
41:00And now he's investing to like collect data and all this stuff.
41:03And it's like no investor has access to any user's data, nor has anyone ever asked.
41:10And it's like it's separate from.
41:11It's not a Handmaid's Tale thing where they're going to collect your data.
41:15I'm like, why are you on Instagram?
41:17Because he was the first investor in Facebook, which is meta.
41:20And you pay for Instagram and Facebook with your data.
41:24You sell your data.
41:25They do take your data.
41:25Yeah.
41:26If you're not if you're not paying for the product, you are the product.
41:28So I'm like, you're literally making reels about this.
41:31Like your data is being stolen as you're pretending that like it's just so bizarre.
41:35To be outraged about something that has no impact on you.
41:37Yeah.
41:37It's like we get paid from subscriptions.
41:39Like we don't sell any data.
41:40We were like anti the COVID vax.
41:42Like who are what government are we giving anything to?
41:45It's so true.
41:45I don't know.
41:46I see that I'm just like, oh, and then some girl did a viral tick tock and they're like
41:50the founder of Evie blocked me because I exposed.
41:53I'm like, girl, it's been four years.
41:55I've seen this video like for four years and I know you're going to say the same exact thing
42:00and think it's original.
42:01And at this point, I'm just like, I'm just bored.
42:04You've seen it before.
42:06I've seen it so many times.
42:07But you like working with your husband because a lot of people.
42:10Well, we don't really work together.
42:12OK.
42:12Yeah.
42:13We work together for.
42:14They don't hate sleep are married.
42:16Mm-hmm.
42:17I know my husband's played paddle, I think, with the guy founder.
42:20OK.
42:21But yeah, I mean, I think on the face of it, people think, oh, my gosh, that would be so
42:23much.
42:24Yeah.
42:25We I think if we were like in the early, early days we were.
42:28But I think because we really don't work together.
42:31I don't really aside from our marketing campaigns, which is super fun.
42:35I only want to work with him with like fun things.
42:37Yeah.
42:38Otherwise, like, you know, we'll stay in our space.
42:41What?
42:41OK.
42:42I'm just curious to get your take.
42:43What if you were advising especially more conservative figures how to reach women?
42:49You know, this is after J.D. Vance said the cat lady.
42:52Yeah.
42:52Thing about young women and unmarried women.
42:55And what would your advice be to them on how to reach this audience, which is kind
43:01of a coveted audience?
43:04There was this NPR piece saying that the GOP, like everyone needs to look at the GOP and
43:10see what they're doing with Evie and Alex Clark, because we're the ones reaching younger
43:14women.
43:14And I'm like, we don't talk to the GOP.
43:17The first person I ever, I guess, met was Ivanka because she bought a magazine.
43:23Interesting.
43:24It's just like I actually like I've heard their arguments for what they would do.
43:30And I think that they're awful and I don't agree with them.
43:33And I don't think that you should do them.
43:35But it's hard when you say anything, you know, it's conflict.
43:39So I'm like, I just don't want to be in politics because of it.
43:43I love like Brett Cooper.
43:44There's a couple of girls that I really like.
43:47But yeah, it's I mean, I guess I would have advice for them, but I would like need to sit
43:53down and be like, you guys are doing it all wrong because it's really bad.
43:58What are OK?
43:59What are your you mentioned a couple very fun articles.
44:02Are there other what are your other favorite most viral articles?
44:05Oh, most viral articles.
44:07We have one last week, last Friday on Sophie Cunningham, which is great.
44:14I don't I don't know.
44:15There's so many I love Jamie Marshall.
44:17She's one of my favorite writers for us.
44:19Taylor Ferber just joined.
44:20She's really funny.
44:22She's great.
44:22She just started last week.
44:24Like, so I have some favorite writers and pieces.
44:28I would just like look through Jamie's thing if you're ever bored.
44:33Jenny White was one we had for a while who I also loved.
44:36She did a how to seduce a man without resorting the sex.
44:40And she's done some like really good like.
44:43Interest, like, you know, she she's so it's like, yeah, it's like, you know, it's very feminine,
44:49but like kind of the dark feminine, but in a good way, you were scouted or you won a modeling
44:56competition.
44:57Yeah.
44:57Is this something that you thought you would be doing?
44:59No.
44:59When you were growing up?
45:00No, I was a I was a martial artist and I was a gamer.
45:04I competed in martial arts.
45:05I medaled at the Junior Olympics in Taekwondo.
45:07I was like a very like martial artist.
45:10I read a lot of manga, like I said, kind of like, you know, my husband's guy friends will
45:15be like, I want a girl who like reads manga and plays video games.
45:18And my husband's like, so you want like a guy?
45:20And they're like, yeah, but also Brittany does that.
45:23Like, Gabe's like, yeah, she's like the only one, not the only one.
45:26But you know what I mean?
45:26But I grew up like that.
45:29And it was actually this woman who is like the top model in Dallas.
45:32And she's like, you got to enter this model search and stuff.
45:34So I entered Cosmopolitans, actually.
45:36And I was a finalist for Cosmo Girl.
45:40And then I won the next year for a different model search and then just modeled and dropped
45:46out of school and wanted to live near my husband slash boyfriend who also left school.
45:51And it was a good time.
45:52Yeah.
45:53But yeah, no, I wasn't planning on doing it.
45:55No.
45:55Yeah.
45:56Yeah.
45:56And then you were in L.A.
45:57Yeah.
45:59You were in the whole entertainment.
46:01It was fun.
46:02It was crazy.
46:03I have so many stories.
46:05People think I make them up, but I just like was always going out.
46:08So what made you want to move to New York?
46:10So we moved to Miami during COVID.
46:15And New York just has some of the best talent in the world.
46:18When you're building a magazine, it's like everybody's here.
46:21All the editors are here.
46:23I love creatives.
46:25I love films.
46:26I love books.
46:27I love plays.
46:28So it's like, I don't know.
46:29We just came back this morning at 3 a.m.
46:31And my husband and I were just like, wow, we just love like the energy, the inspiration
46:37of the city.
46:38I don't know.
46:39It's hard to beat it.
46:40Yeah.
46:41Okay.
46:41Well, we are going to leave it there.
46:42Thank you so much for joining us.
46:45Yeah.
46:45So fun getting to hear about what you're working on.
46:47People can follow you.
46:49Yeah.
46:49Instagram, Substack.
46:51Yeah.
46:52We can follow ebmagazine.com.
46:55You can subscribe digitally.
46:56If you go to ebprint.com, you can get the print magazine or you can go to Casa Magazines
47:00if you're in New York City and get it there.
47:03And yeah, the app for 28, you just search 28 Wellness in the app store and you can get that.
47:07But highly recommend both of them.
47:09Amazing.
47:11I am Lydia Moynihan sitting in for Miranda Devine.
47:14Make sure to like and subscribe and tune in next week for another episode.
47:18But Happiness.
47:18I am.
47:19I am.
47:19I am.
47:19I am.
47:19I am.
47:20I am.
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