- 6 weeks ago
In an interview, Sanjay Verma, former Indian High Commissioner to Canada, commented on a leaked audio recording where gangster Goldy Brar allegedly linked the killing of Hardeep Singh Nijjar to gang rivalry over drugs and weapons. Verma stated that if verified, the tape confirms India's long-standing position that Nijjar's death was a result of gang rivalry rather than state action. He highlighted that Indian intelligence agencies had accurately profiled criminal networks and shared information under UAPA terror listings prior to the incident. Commenting on diplomatic relations, Verma asserted, "Canada owes an apology to India," adding that Canadian authorities acted hastily without basing claims on facts. He emphasised the need for increased intelligence cooperation, information sharing, and a formal course correction by Ottawa to restore trust between both nations.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Good evening, you're watching NewsTrack with me, Maria Shaquille.
00:04Three years after Hardeep Singh Nijjar was killed in Canada,
00:08fresh claim has added a new twist to the case.
00:11Fugitive gangster Goldie Brar has claimed responsibility for the killing in a leaked audio
00:17and has accused Hardeep Nijjar of backing drug networks involving young people.
00:23The audio has not been independently verified, but its timing certainly is significant.
00:30Coming as India and Canada move from the diplomatic tensions of the Trudeau years
00:35towards a reset under Mark Carney.
00:40Does Brar's claim change the Nijjar narrative?
00:43Does it strengthen India's long-standing position?
00:47Can Carney undo damage done under Trudeau era?
00:52Will Canada apologise for its canards against India?
00:56Before I bring in diplomat Sanjay Verma, who was maligned by the Trudeau regime
01:01and later recalled by the Indian government, here's a report.
01:15A fresh twist in the Hardeep Singh Nijjar killing case.
01:21Three years after Nijjar was shot dead outside a Gurdwara in Surrey,
01:25fugitive gangster Goldie Brar has claimed responsibility for the killing.
01:38In an audio clip circulating on social media,
01:41Brar is heard speaking to Kharisthan terrorist Paramjit Singh Pamma,
01:45where he has accused Hardeep Nijjar of supporting individuals
01:48who recruited and coerced young people into drug trafficking
01:51and used them as informants.
01:54Cephasel is carried out with the 50-60-70 odd people.
02:05To make those the hardest one part,
02:07after the Aunque,
02:08the President's aggressive was out of the 60s,
02:11the 40s, the hardest one was taken off the 50s,
02:15and then lightly arrested for the killing.
02:16The former Secretary,
02:18the rule of the Kharisthan nitrogen,
02:18I can't have to hang with the 1000-60s,
02:19I can't have to hang with the 100-60s.
02:25But the authenticity of the audio clip has not been independently verified.
02:29However, the timing of the claim is significant.
02:33Niger's killing had triggered one of the biggest diplomatic crises between India and Canada.
02:37We had the opportunity of making it a very uncomfortable summit for India
02:42if we went public with these allegations ahead of time.
02:45We chose not to.
02:46Then Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau had alleged that Canadian authorities
02:49had credible evidence linking Indian government officials to the killing.
02:55India had strongly rejected the allegation as absurd and motivated
02:59and maintained that it had no involvement.
03:02Back in 2024, that had sparked a diplomatic crisis between both nations
03:06with on-wise even being recalled.
03:09However, now there has been a significant shift in the diplomatic landscape under the Kani era.
03:14Just last month, the Canadian authorities said they found no evidence
03:18linking Indian government officials to Niger's killing.
03:21There is also an American investigation into the case.
03:24A US federal indictment has alleged that jailed gangster Lawrence Vishnoye
03:28ordered Niger's killing and has linked Goldie Brar to the wider criminal network.
03:32Brar, whose real name is Satyandarjit Singh,
03:34is a key figure in the Lawrence Vishnoye organized crime network
03:37and is wanted in India in several cases,
03:40including the killing of Punjabi singer Sidhu Musewala.
03:43Indian agencies have also accused Brar of links to Babar Khalsa International
03:47and have designated him a terrorist under the UAPA.
03:50The Interpol has issued a red corner notice against him.
03:54So does Goldie Brar's alleged admission vindicate India's position?
03:57Politically, it could strengthen New Delhi's argument,
04:00but legally, not yet.
04:01The audio remains unverified,
04:03and Brar's alleged claim alone can't establish
04:06who ordered and carried out Niger's killing.
04:08What makes this significant is the timing.
04:13India and Canada are moving from the tensions of the Trudeau years
04:16towards a diplomatic reset.
04:18And this case could change that conversation further.
04:22With Arvind Hoja, Bureau Report, India Today.
04:28Joining me first on the show is Sanjay Varma,
04:31former Indian High Commissioner to Canada.
04:35Sir, thank you for your time.
04:37doesn't Goldie Brar's own leaked audio
04:39admitting the killing was tied to gang rivalry, drugs and weapons,
04:45finally puncture Justin Trudeau's credible allegations and narrative?
04:50How significant is it
04:52that the confirmation is coming not from India,
04:56but from the accused's own mouth?
05:01So, the first thing I would like to express is
05:05that the conversation that we have heard
05:08and which is doing rounds in social media
05:10is still unverified.
05:12If I can presume that it is a verified conversation
05:16between PAMA in UK
05:18and Goldie Brar somewhere in North America,
05:22then certainly it clearly mentions
05:24and indicates that it was a result of the gang rivalry.
05:28And that is something
05:31we have maintained right from day one,
05:33that the killing has been a result of the gang rivalry.
05:37And gang rivalry is for influence.
05:39It could be influence for drugs,
05:42it could be influence on weapons,
05:43it could be influence on youth,
05:44it could be influence on anything else
05:46which was going on illegally there.
05:48So, therefore,
05:50and we had maintained it right from the beginning.
05:54So, at this point of time,
05:56if this leaked, so-called leaked video is verified,
06:02what we were saying all the time is correct.
06:05Mr. Varma, you have pointed out
06:07that Niger, PAMA, Brar, Arsh Dalla
06:11were all already on India's UAPA terror list
06:15before this tape surfaced.
06:17Doesn't that show that Indian agencies
06:20perhaps had accurately profiled this network years ago
06:25and that Canada is only catching up now?
06:30Absolutely.
06:31Our intelligence agencies have done their homework
06:34very sincerely.
06:36The result of our intelligence gathering
06:39were shared with the Canadians.
06:43Not only that,
06:44it was also shared with Interpol.
06:47which issued a red-corner notice
06:49in case of a couple of them.
06:51If you look at the dates
06:53on which they were included in UAPA,
06:57these dates precede
06:59the date of the killing of Niger.
07:01So, therefore,
07:03we were sure what we were talking about.
07:05We were ready to share the information
07:07which we did,
07:09both with Canada and Interpol.
07:10And we hoped at that point of time
07:13that Canada will be serious enough
07:14to take steps forward.
07:17Unfortunately, due to a hasty decision
07:19by the then Canadian leadership,
07:22things went awry.
07:24And you were the first Indian envoy
07:27to be declared persona non grata
07:29and then India withdrew you from Canada.
07:32Ties with Ottawa
07:34hit a historic low.
07:36With the state now surfacing, sir,
07:39what should Canada owe India
07:42by way of course correction?
07:44A retraction?
07:46An apology?
07:47Or a formal review
07:49of how the Niger probe was handled?
07:55I think all of them.
07:57So, first of all,
07:58they have to do the investigation.
08:00They also have,
08:02I presume that they have
08:03the leaked audio tapes
08:05with them as well.
08:07So, they should do
08:07the complete investigation
08:08if they want any translation help
08:10from Punjabi to English or French.
08:13I'm sure India will be
08:14more than ready to assist them
08:16in getting that done.
08:18Once they have concluded
08:21that the conversation
08:24which has taken place
08:25is verified
08:27and the claim
08:30that Goldiebriar has made
08:32in the conversation
08:33of killing Niger
08:36due to whatever reasons
08:37is also conclusively understood
08:42by the Canadian investigating agencies,
08:44then I would say Canada
08:45owes an apology to India,
08:49to Indians,
08:50to Indian leadership
08:51and those Indian diplomats
08:53and officials
08:54who were
08:56asked to leave the country.
08:58After all,
08:59their lives were shattered.
09:01Professionally,
09:02they were
09:03kind of
09:04blotted.
09:05So,
09:07all these things
09:08need to be reversed.
09:09I don't know how much
09:10can they reverse it,
09:11but I'll be glad
09:12if they are able
09:13to come out in public
09:14and say that
09:15that was a wrong
09:16allegation
09:17put against India,
09:19Indians,
09:19Indian diplomats
09:20and Indian state.
09:22And would you say
09:24that they owe
09:25you an apology as well?
09:32Absolutely.
09:33Including me,
09:35my colleagues,
09:36I was just
09:37captain of the ship,
09:39but the ship
09:39was being handled
09:40by many other
09:41colleagues of mine.
09:42Some of them
09:43were also declared
09:44persona non grata
09:45along with me.
09:46I was the last one
09:47amongst the persona
09:49non grata
09:50whom Canada
09:51has declared
09:52to leave the ship,
09:53but all my colleagues
09:55had left by then.
09:57So, yes,
09:57to me,
09:58to all my colleagues,
09:59to their family members
10:00who suffered
10:01unknowingly
10:02the consequences
10:03of a misleading
10:05allegation
10:06by the then
10:07Canadian leadership.
10:08Mr. Varna,
10:10with gang rivalry
10:11now established
10:12as the driver
10:13rather than state action,
10:15what does this
10:16really mean
10:16for the future
10:17of India-Canada
10:18relations?
10:19Can trust be rebuilt
10:21at the diplomatic level
10:22or has Ottawa
10:23already burned
10:25that bridge?
10:29I should say
10:30that Canada
10:32has burned the bridge.
10:33No.
10:34A particular
10:35Canadian administration
10:36acted in a haste
10:39without basing things
10:40on the facts
10:40and evidences
10:41that we can put
10:43behind us
10:44provided the remedies
10:47which should be
10:49sought
10:50in case of
10:51doing right
10:53the wrongs
10:54which had been done
10:55to individuals,
10:56to the country,
10:56to the nation,
10:58to our leadership.
10:59That is one part.
11:01But the second part
11:03which is more important
11:04is that it also
11:05suggests that we need
11:07more intelligence sharing,
11:09we need more cooperation
11:11between the two sides,
11:12considering that
11:13anti-India threats
11:14come out of Canada
11:15more often
11:16than from any other country,
11:18considering that
11:19Canada itself
11:20has now
11:21accepted
11:22that the
11:23Kanishka bombing
11:24was a handiwork
11:26of Khalistani
11:27terrorists
11:27and extremists,
11:28considering that
11:29Canada has coined
11:30the acronym
11:32of Canada-based
11:33Khalistani
11:34extremists.
11:34So I would say
11:36we need
11:37more conversation
11:38between the two sides,
11:39we need more sharing
11:40of information
11:41and intelligence
11:42between the two sides.
11:44Some of it
11:45is happening
11:45now with the
11:46current administration
11:48in Canada in place
11:49and I hope that
11:50it moves forward
11:51in a more fruitful way.
11:53It also
11:53takes care of
11:55the doziers
11:56which India
11:56has
11:57been
11:59giving to
12:00the Canadian side
12:02to work on
12:03some of the
12:05fraudsters
12:05and criminals
12:06who
12:07are Indian
12:09citizens
12:10or who have
12:11committed crimes
12:12in India
12:12and currently
12:13in Canada.
12:14You know,
12:14for three years
12:16the narrative
12:17which was going
12:18in the
12:19Western capitals
12:21was
12:21quote-unquote
12:23India killed
12:23a dissident
12:24on foreign soil.
12:26Now that
12:27Goldie Brar's
12:28own words
12:29point to
12:30gang crime
12:31what will it
12:33actually
12:33take to
12:34correct that
12:35narrative
12:35internationally
12:36or does
12:37the damage
12:38already done
12:39outlast
12:40any single
12:41tape?
12:44See,
12:45damage has
12:45been done.
12:46The trust
12:47has been
12:47breached.
12:48So now
12:50it is very
12:51important for
12:51Canada to
12:52come out
12:52in open
12:52and say
12:54whatever the
12:55conclusion
12:55of their
12:56investigation
12:56I cannot
12:57suggest
12:58what would
12:59be the
12:59conclusion
12:59from the
13:00Canadian
13:00side
13:01but they
13:01should
13:02come out
13:02in the
13:02public
13:02from my
13:03own
13:03understanding
13:04and reading
13:05of various
13:06reports
13:08and my
13:08own experience
13:09in Canada
13:09I would say
13:10that more
13:11or less
13:11it is proven
13:12that the
13:13government of
13:13India or
13:14the Indian
13:14so-called
13:15Indian
13:15agents
13:16all the
13:16Indian
13:17diplomats
13:17and officials
13:17have no
13:18hands
13:19in the
13:20killing of
13:20Niger
13:20or anyone
13:22else
13:22in Canada
13:23the
13:24operation
13:25hardball
13:25by the
13:26US
13:26has also
13:27indicated
13:28the same
13:28so they
13:29have to
13:29come out
13:30in open
13:30and bring
13:32out the
13:33conclusion
13:34of their
13:34investigations
13:36go back
13:37to all
13:38those
13:38capitals
13:38where they
13:39had rallied
13:40earlier
13:40both the
13:41foreign
13:41minister
13:42of that
13:42time
13:42and the
13:43prime
13:43minister
13:43had made
13:44phone calls
13:45rallied
13:45against India
13:46they have
13:47to call
13:48them back
13:48and said
13:49that look
13:49we were
13:50wrong
13:50so that's
13:51a very
13:52important
13:52factor
13:53for them
13:54to redeem
13:54themselves
13:55India doesn't
13:56need to
13:57redeem itself
13:57India
13:57has never
14:01transgressed
14:02India had
14:03never been
14:03a part
14:03of any
14:05perpetrator
14:06of
14:06transnational
14:07crime
14:07so therefore
14:08they have
14:09to redeem
14:10themselves
14:10and whatever
14:11is deemed
14:12appropriate
14:13they will
14:13have to do
14:14with other
14:15western
14:16capitals
14:16okay you
14:17know since
14:17you're talking
14:17about they
14:18have to
14:18redeem
14:18themselves
14:19this
14:20redemption
14:20how will
14:21that play
14:21out
14:21Justin Trudeau
14:22isn't in
14:22power
14:23anymore
14:28see
14:29till the
14:30time he
14:30was the
14:31prime
14:31minister
14:31of course
14:32he was
14:32adamant
14:32that he
14:33had
14:34credible
14:35allegations
14:35and that's
14:36the term
14:36he used
14:38allegations
14:38are allegations
14:39and on the
14:39basis of
14:40allegation
14:40a mature
14:42leader
14:43political
14:43leader
14:44should never
14:44make
14:45allegations
14:45against
14:46another
14:46friendly
14:47country
14:47Canada
14:47is still
14:48our
14:48friend
14:48but the
14:50present
14:51administration
14:52in Canada
14:52has moved
14:53ahead
14:53and they
14:54have called
14:55in some
14:56places
14:57a spade
14:57a spade
14:58they have
14:59said that
15:00these extortions
15:01are being done
15:02by the gangs
15:02in Canada
15:03they have
15:05talked about
15:06the Canada
15:06based
15:06Khalistani
15:07extremists
15:08they have
15:08talked about
15:09Kanishka
15:10bombing
15:10as handiwork
15:11of Canada
15:12based
15:13Khalistani
15:13extremists
15:14they have
15:15talked about
15:16drugs
15:16being
15:18distributed
15:18by the
15:19Khalistani
15:20terrorists
15:21and extremists
15:22they have
15:22talked about
15:23weapons being
15:23run
15:24they have
15:25talked about
15:25the human
15:26trafficking
15:26being done
15:27by them
15:27so in a
15:29way they
15:29are coming
15:30out
15:31my own
15:32expectation
15:33is that
15:33they have
15:34to come
15:34out more
15:35and particularly
15:36in the case
15:36of Niger
15:37because that
15:38was the
15:38watershed
15:39in our
15:41relationship
15:41and once
15:43that is
15:43clarified
15:44I am sure
15:44both the
15:45countries
15:45are ready
15:45to move
15:46forward
15:46as we
15:47are seeing
15:47with the
15:48new
15:49SEPA
15:49comprehensive
15:50economic
15:50partnership
15:51agreement
15:51which is
15:52moving ahead
15:52our finance
15:53minister
15:54will be
15:55in Canada
15:56very soon
15:57there are
15:58delegations
15:59to and fro
15:59all the
16:00time
16:00so we
16:00are building
16:01that
16:02but whether
16:03that trust
16:03is still
16:04at the
16:05historical
16:05high
16:05I have
16:06my doubts
16:07all right
16:08Sanjay
16:08Varma
16:09really
16:09appreciate
16:09your time
16:10thank you
16:10for joining
16:11us and
16:12sharing your
16:12views
16:13and joining
16:14me now
16:15is Ujjal
16:15Dosanj
16:16former
16:16minister
16:17of health
16:18and lawyer
16:20there
16:20he's joining
16:21me for
16:21Vancouver
16:22Mr Dosanj
16:23in 2023
16:24you said
16:25you believed
16:25India could
16:26be behind
16:26Niger's
16:27killing
16:27now that
16:28Goldie
16:29Brar's
16:29own
16:30leaked
16:30audio
16:30has him
16:31claiming
16:32personal
16:33responsibility
16:34over a
16:35gang
16:35dispute
16:36does that
16:36change
16:36your assessment
16:37or do
16:38you still
16:39hold to
16:40your original
16:40suspicion
16:41I think
16:42what I meant
16:43was that
16:44it was not
16:44properly known
16:45at that
16:46time
16:46so there
16:47were all
16:47kinds of
16:48possibilities
16:48this
16:51statement
16:51by
16:52Goldie
16:53Brar
16:53makes it
16:54clear that
16:55you know
16:55some of
16:56these
16:56Khalistanis
16:57do gun
16:58running
16:59do drugs
17:00they're part
17:00of gangs
17:01and that
17:02was always
17:03rumored to
17:04be true
17:05within the
17:05community
17:06but you
17:07and I
17:07aren't
17:07privy to
17:09the evidence
17:09of that
17:10and now
17:11this particular
17:12statement
17:12sheds more
17:13light on
17:13Mr.
17:14Niger's
17:15connections
17:16and that
17:18he may have
17:18been killed
17:19as part of
17:20an internecine
17:21war amongst
17:22gangsters
17:23that becomes
17:24pretty obvious
17:25and clear
17:25if Goldie
17:27Brar is to
17:27be believed
17:28and the
17:30Trudeau
17:31government
17:31then
17:32built a
17:33diplomatic
17:33crisis
17:33on
17:34intelligence
17:34it
17:35called
17:35credible
17:35but never
17:37fully
17:37disclosed
17:38with the
17:39states
17:39surfacing
17:40Mr.
17:40Dosanj
17:41do you
17:42think
17:42Ottawa
17:43owes
17:43India
17:44and
17:44Canadians
17:45more
17:45transparency
17:46on what
17:47that
17:47original
17:48intelligence
17:49actually
17:50was
17:50oh
17:52absolutely
17:52I think
17:53the RCMP
17:54has made
17:55some
17:56statements
17:56to the
17:56effect
17:57that
17:57India
17:58may not
17:59be
17:59involved
17:59in the
18:00Niger
18:00killing
18:00I mean
18:01to date
18:01they've
18:01made
18:02those
18:02statements
18:02I think
18:03at the
18:03beginning
18:04you know
18:04Mr.
18:04Trudeau
18:05was always
18:05more
18:06theatrical
18:06than
18:07real
18:08I sat
18:09in parliament
18:09with him
18:10for two
18:10or three
18:10years
18:11I knew
18:12him
18:12and I
18:14think
18:14that we
18:14should
18:14take
18:15whatever
18:15he said
18:16with a
18:16grain
18:16of salt
18:17because
18:17he was
18:18quite
18:19theatrical
18:19he did
18:20it to
18:22force
18:23stop
18:23a
18:24new
18:25story
18:25and deal
18:25with the
18:26new
18:26stories
18:26that was
18:27going to
18:27be out
18:27the next
18:28day
18:28and that's
18:29not
18:30good
18:31leadership
18:31that's
18:32not
18:35conducive
18:36to having
18:36good
18:37international
18:37relations
18:39I said
18:39that at
18:40that time
18:40that he
18:41had
18:41mishandled
18:41the issue
18:42and now
18:43it's quite
18:44clear that
18:44he did
18:45so
18:46And you
18:47have been
18:47a long
18:48standing
18:48critic
18:49of
18:49Khalistani
18:50extremism
18:51within the
18:52Canadian
18:52Sikh
18:52community
18:53even
18:53facing
18:54threats
18:54for it
18:55So
18:56Mr.
18:56Dasan
18:56does
18:57Niger's
18:58alleged
18:58links
18:58as
18:59described
18:59in this
19:00tape
19:00to
19:00drug
19:01networks
19:01and
19:02youth
19:02exploitation
19:03complicate
19:03this
19:04entire
19:04martyr
19:05narrative
19:06which was
19:06built
19:07around him
19:08in the
19:08parts of
19:08the
19:08diaspora
19:10Of course
19:11it does
19:11and we've
19:12always believed
19:13that some
19:13of these
19:13Khalistani
19:15leaders
19:15have been
19:16part of
19:17international
19:18gang
19:20activity
19:21drug
19:21running
19:22gun
19:22running
19:23and the
19:24like
19:24and
19:25Mr.
19:26Barrar's
19:27statement
19:29lends
19:30credence
19:30to that
19:31Now
19:32obviously
19:32whether or
19:33not that
19:34statement
19:34stands as
19:35scrutiny
19:36of further
19:37investigation
19:37that's another
19:38issue
19:38As a lawyer
19:39I can't say
19:40that Goldiebrow
19:41says so
19:42therefore it is so
19:43but it seems
19:45likely that it
19:45may be so
19:47And Canada
19:48then expelled
19:49Indian
19:50diplomats
19:50and you
19:51had the
19:52Indian
19:52High
19:53Commissioner
19:53of Canada
19:54who was
19:55expelled
19:55you know
19:56declared
19:57persona
19:57non grata
19:58and then
19:58India
19:59withdrew him
20:00That really
20:01happened then
20:02if it turns
20:03out to be
20:04gang crime
20:05rather than
20:05state action
20:06what should
20:07accountability
20:07really look
20:08like on
20:09Canada's
20:09side and
20:10do you
20:10believe
20:11that Ottawa
20:12moved too
20:13fast
20:13and as
20:14you said
20:14that
20:16Justin Trudeau
20:18then was
20:18very theatrical
20:19why did he
20:20then jump
20:21the gun
20:21in declaring
20:22some kind
20:23of credible
20:23information
20:24or evidence
20:25I've always
20:27said that
20:28Mr. Trudeau
20:28had very
20:29deep links
20:30to the
20:30Khalistani
20:31movement
20:31it was part
20:33of the
20:33Khalistani
20:33movement
20:34that actually
20:34put him
20:35into the
20:35leadership
20:36they signed
20:37up thousands
20:37of people
20:38for him
20:38during the
20:39liberal
20:39leadership
20:41and I
20:41know how
20:42he inherited
20:43that network
20:43from 2006
20:45leadership
20:45I was there
20:47so I've
20:48actually said
20:49that before
20:49but I
20:51think that
20:51in terms
20:52of
20:53corrections
20:54or taking
20:55any corrective
20:56measures
20:56vis-a-vis
20:57Canada's
20:58policy
20:58towards India
21:00Mr. Carney
21:01has done
21:03an excellent
21:03job of
21:04essentially
21:04bypassing
21:05the Khalistani
21:06presence in
21:07Canada
21:07and meeting
21:09the Prime
21:09Minister
21:09inviting
21:10the Prime
21:10Minister
21:11and sending
21:12the Foreign
21:12Minister back
21:13to India
21:14and vice
21:14versa
21:15I think
21:15that those
21:17have been
21:17very good
21:17substantial
21:18positive
21:19steps
21:20and I
21:22think our
21:22relationship
21:23is on the
21:24mend
21:24But Mr.
21:26Dussan
21:27do you
21:28think that
21:28Trudeau
21:29must come
21:29clean now?
21:31There has
21:32to be some
21:32kind of
21:32accountability
21:33here
21:34Well
21:35you know
21:35political
21:36leaders
21:37once they're
21:38gone
21:38there's no
21:39accountability
21:39Mr. Trudeau
21:40is now
21:41a private
21:41But to his own people
21:42there
21:43Mr. Trudeau
21:45is a private
21:45citizen
21:45and he's
21:47you know
21:47globetrotting
21:48with his
21:48girlfriend
21:49and let him
21:50be
21:50I think that
21:51what you
21:51really need
21:53rather than
21:54vengeance
21:54on Mr.
21:55Trudeau
21:55is improvement
21:56in India
21:57Canada relations
21:58and that's
21:59happening
21:59and Mr. Carney
22:01and Mr.
22:01Modi
22:02are working
22:02on it
22:03and I'm
22:03quite happy
22:04that it's
22:04moving in
22:05the right
22:05direction
22:06How will
22:06the reset
22:07really happen
22:08if it's
22:10based on
22:12the head
22:13of state
22:14at one
22:14point of
22:15that country
22:15leveling
22:17that kind
22:17of an
22:17allegation
22:18against India
22:20How will
22:21the reset
22:22really happen?
22:23You got
22:24to give
22:25people the
22:25benefit of
22:26the doubt
22:26If you're
22:27working
22:27several years
22:29ago
22:29you said
22:29something
22:30you may
22:31have had
22:31misinformation
22:32or not
22:33too much
22:34information
22:34you may
22:35have been
22:36misled
22:36One should
22:39always give
22:39somebody the
22:40benefit of
22:40the doubt
22:40We knew
22:42Mr. Trudeau
22:42was more
22:43theatrical
22:43than real
22:44We may
22:45put it
22:46down to
22:46his theatricalness
22:48but we
22:48also may
22:49put down
22:50to the
22:50fact that
22:50he may
22:51not have
22:51had enough
22:52information
22:53at that
22:53time
22:54and made
22:55the statement
22:56prematurely
22:57So let's
22:58look at
22:58the problem
23:00that's there
23:01at hand
23:01here
23:03Successive
23:03Canadian
23:04governments
23:04have been
23:05accused
23:05including
23:05by India
23:06of tolerating
23:07Haristani
23:09extremism
23:10for vote
23:10bank
23:10politics
23:11Given
23:12your own
23:12outspoken
23:13criticism
23:14of that
23:14culture
23:15does this
23:16episode
23:17then
23:17strengthen
23:18the
23:18argument
23:19that
23:19Canada
23:20needs
23:20to take
23:21a harder
23:22line
23:22against
23:23these
23:23networks
23:24regardless
23:24of who
23:25killed
23:25Niger
23:27Well I
23:28have always
23:29been saying
23:30that Canadian
23:30politicians
23:31have shied
23:32away
23:32and they've
23:33taken
23:33shelter
23:35under the
23:36rubric
23:36of freedom
23:36of expression
23:37for the
23:38Khalistanis
23:39to continue
23:40what they've
23:40been doing
23:41and they
23:41should draw
23:42a line
23:43on extremist
23:44rhetoric
23:44and extremist
23:45violence
23:46You know
23:47extremist
23:48rhetoric
23:48and violent
23:50speeches
23:51should not
23:52be protected
23:54under the
23:54rubric
23:54of freedom
23:55of expression
23:55I've said
23:56that before
23:57and I
23:58think Mr.
23:59Carney
24:00by ignoring
24:01the Khalistani
24:02movement
24:02and essentially
24:05recommencing
24:06the relationship
24:07with Canada
24:08has already
24:09shown the
24:09way
24:09and he
24:10hasn't uttered
24:11one word
24:12about the
24:12movement
24:13he's just
24:14shown by his
24:14actions
24:15that we
24:15can actually
24:16improve the
24:17relationship
24:17and ignore
24:18this fringe
24:19you know
24:21I mean
24:21Indians are
24:22fond of using
24:23this vote
24:24bank expression
24:25I think
24:26it's
24:27politicians
24:28don't want
24:28to make
24:28enemies
24:29so if you
24:29make fewer
24:30enemies
24:30you're good
24:31I think
24:33that they
24:33know
24:33the Khalistanis
24:34don't have
24:35the influence
24:35they have
24:36the muscle
24:37and they
24:38frighten people
24:38by their
24:39muscle
24:39by their
24:41threats
24:41and some
24:43politicians
24:43get misled
24:46from that
24:47misimpression
24:48all right
24:49Ujildu Sanj
24:50pleasure
24:50speaking to
24:51you
24:51thank you
24:51for your
24:52time here
24:53Ujildu Sanj
24:53their former
24:54minister
24:54joining us
24:55from Vancouver
24:56and sharing
24:57his views
24:57we are putting
24:58out both the
24:59interviews on
24:59our website
25:00and also on
25:00the YouTube
25:01channel
25:01that's all
25:02from me
25:02thanks so
25:02much for
25:02watching
25:03and I'll
25:03be seeing
25:03you tomorrow
25:04you