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00:00This is Straight Outta Flushing, brought to you by your local Ford stores.
00:04Ford F-150 is the official truck of the New York Mets.
00:09Welcome back to another edition of Straight Outta Flushing.
00:13Dexter Henry, Tyler Ward coming to you.
00:16Wardy, what's good, man? How you doing?
00:19Dex, I'm doing well.
00:20Listen, the Mets did drop two out of their past three games in Southside, right?
00:24But we're not going to talk as much about that because where we're at
00:27at this point in the season, I think you and I both know very well.
00:30What's going to be the outcome for the Mets this year?
00:33So entertaining weekend, little walk-offs happening, not the end of the world.
00:37Mets are still staying in basically every single game they're playing.
00:40So all in all, I have a lot of positives I have to get into with you today, Dex,
00:44but far less on what the Mets have been doing and more so as to what is going to
00:49continue to come of them for their future.
00:51So I'm excited to get into today's discussion.
00:54I hope you are too.
00:55Yeah, no, I'm excited about it.
00:56And yes, Mets fans, I think you should be excited about what you've seen in terms of
01:02competitive, fun baseball through the month of August.
01:04I will say that much.
01:06And I think a lot of the fun starts with a couple of players that we've talked about
01:11a lot this season.
01:12That maybe the one player we weren't surprised made the major league roster out of camp,
01:17and that is Carson Bench.
01:19And then the other player, Nolan McClain, a guy we thought could have a really impactful
01:24year for the Mets coming out of camp based on what we saw from FIM last year.
01:28So one of the things I wanted to talk about in this episode that Wardy and I, and I'm really
01:33intrigued because we have not discussed this really between us.
01:36We kind of knew we'd talk about this, but we haven't really dove into it.
01:38So we wanted to dive into it with everyone here.
01:42Who's got the better rookie of the year case?
01:44Is it Carson Bench or is it Nolan McClain?
01:47I think this is a very interesting conversation with the way both of these guys have played
01:54this season.
01:55So Wardy, I'm going to go with this for you.
01:58If you had an NL rookie of the year ballot today, as we're recording this, who would you
02:06rank higher?
02:07Is it Carson Bench or is it Nolan McClain?
02:10Who are you going with?
02:12It's a really difficult question because there is the fandom side of me that maybe will be
02:18like, well, I'm just happy either way.
02:19But then there's the rational side of me that's like, okay, how does this voting typically go?
02:24And what is history shown us when looking at NL rookie of the year and what history has
02:29shown us is that it's been far more favorable for a position player than a starter.
02:34So while Nolan McClain has all the reasons in the world to suggest that he may very well
02:39be not only a rookie of the year candidate, but actual winner this year, I think it's Carson
02:43Bench's to lose between the two.
02:46And there's a multitude of reasons as to why that is.
02:49But before we deep dive them further, and I hear your thoughts on this, it really is
02:53just simply put because of how much Bench has blossomed into a multi-tool talent that
02:59is a bit of a rarity in today's game.
03:01We have a lot of numbers we're going to throw in a second, but where Bench has separated
03:05himself against other guys in the National League, even the South Stewart's, who's going
03:10to have a North to 30 home run, 100 RBI season as the first baseman for the Reds
03:15in that band box.
03:15Or AJJ Weatherholt, who obviously has had a fantastic rookie year, all things considered,
03:20for the St. Louis Cardinals.
03:21Those guys have had fantastic runs, but there's something about what Carson Bench has been
03:24doing, especially since really the start of May, that's put him in a bit of a class
03:29of his own, which is exciting to break down more.
03:31So before we get into more on these numbers decks, what was your immediate gut reaction
03:36to when we proposed this topic last night, talking about these two players?
03:40And between McClain and Bench, who do you think is best fit to win this year's rookie
03:47of the year award?
03:48So I did what you did as well, too, right?
03:51Which is, you know, I thought about how has this award gone historically?
03:56And sometimes, you know, history is a good indicator of how the voters will vote of it.
04:00Although you do have, we have seen through baseball changes in how awards are voted for.
04:04It's now having more analytics, more data to look at, things of that nature.
04:09For me, I tend to, listen, it's tough.
04:13This is a tough one.
04:14And I'm with you because Bench is the kind of player that if you're a Mets fan, I think
04:21you're a baseball fan as you want.
04:22He's a two-way player.
04:23He's so good defensively.
04:25And we've seen what he can do with the bat.
04:27And we think the ceiling is even higher with the bat of what we can do.
04:30We feel he's just scratching the surface with that.
04:31If you ask me right now, today, in terms of this ballot, I have McLean narrowly ahead
04:40of Bench, actually.
04:41Good.
04:42I'm glad you do.
04:43That is going to make your proper discourse today.
04:46Yes.
04:46That way we can have a good discourse about this.
04:48I think this is really close, and I totally can see the argument either way, right?
04:53Just to be very clear.
04:55Look, for me, I looked at workload, what he's done in terms of ERA, so 3-2 ERA, just over
05:023-2-1 ERA, excuse me, 168 strikeouts, and 148 two-thirds innings.
05:09He's been really, really good.
05:12Now, look, I know you're going to look at Bench and probably tell me, look, Dex, this
05:17is a 20-20 caliber right fielder right now, today, if I would have told you that before
05:23the season, you'd have been like, yeah, I'll sign up for that.
05:26He's got an elite throwing arm, right?
05:28This is a guy you're probably going to pencil in and say he's going to impact your roster
05:32for 150-plus games a year, right?
05:34These are things you're going to count on with him.
05:37I think with all the dysfunction, not that this matters a whole ton, but when I look
05:42at what McClain has been able to do with some ups and downs in this season and how he's
05:46actually been better lately, and I'll get into more of those numbers in a bit, and the
05:50way the Mets pitching staff has been, unstable might be the nice word I'm going to put here.
05:55I think he's done a really good job.
05:57You know, I think we were looking, not you and I specifically, but there was some talk
06:01before the season, right, Wardy?
06:03Could he be an ace?
06:04Is he going to be an ace?
06:05Can he be a Cy Young candidate?
06:07Oh, we talked a lot about McClain as a sub side.
06:10I was raving about it as you were.
06:12Right.
06:13My thing was, I just want, you knew the league was going to have some adjustments to him,
06:17and he was going to have to adjust back.
06:19So for me, I was just like, look, I want to see this guy have a solid year.
06:23I think he's done that.
06:25You know, I think the, when we talk about this and the way I phrase the question is around
06:29two players, they're going to have a challenge because of some of the other guys we talked
06:34about in the NL, if they're going to jump them in that way.
06:38And you'd probably need some, a really, really strong September from either Benj or McClain
06:44in this one.
06:46But I just, you know, when you look at McClain, man, there's the biggest thing for me.
06:52He's got a 2.6 F4.
06:54That's the best mark among NL rookie pitchers.
06:57And I think it's one of the strongest statistical arguments for him, right?
07:02You talk about the volume.
07:03Oh, you're short.
07:04You're short changing him, Dex.
07:06What am I?
07:07He's even better.
07:08How did it?
07:09It updated it.
07:10It updated last night after he won another six strong innings.
07:13It's 2.8.
07:14You know, it's funny.
07:15I wrote that last night.
07:16So I didn't have it before the update and I didn't check it this morning.
07:19What's the update?
07:20Sorry.
07:212.8.
07:22He's scratching the service of a free war player right now.
07:25Absolutely.
07:26Yeah.
07:26Let's not, let's not shortchange.
07:28Let's not short.
07:28I'm going to call him my boy.
07:29Let's not shortchange my boy here.
07:31There you go.
07:33Whatsoever.
07:34Yeah.
07:34And look, we talked about that 168 batters he struck out.
07:38That's fifth in the NL in strikeout.
07:41So look, he's, he's been really good, man.
07:44He's been really good.
07:44But okay, so you're telling me, Wardy, you're not on the McLean train.
07:49You are doing, you did your binge binge, which is a nickname Wardy told me going before this.
07:55Why, why are you binge over McLean here?
07:59So I will give a tip of the cap once more to Nolan with one more stat that I think
08:04is important to help your argument in here.
08:06And that's the ability of what has been a huge bugaboo, not only for the Mets for the past calendar
08:11year, but has been a problem across major league baseball.
08:14It's been guys that give you beyond five innings.
08:16I mean, that's how low the bar has been.
08:17But for someone like no McLean.
08:20Oh my God.
08:21In his 26 starts this season.
08:25Guess how many of them he's won at least six innings.
08:30Off top, I'm going to say 18.
08:3517.
08:35That was really good, Dex.
08:37You're right there, right?
08:38In that conversation.
08:39So that just shows you, again, his ability to constantly give you six, if not seven innings of work.
08:44And let's also not forget, two of his past three starts were masterclasses.
08:47They all were actually, but two out of the three were wasted by the Mets, unfortunately, because they didn't have
08:51offense to provide for him.
08:53Again, let's not forget, Jacob deGrom isn't as much of a distant memory as we might think when it comes
08:58to the treatment that you're going to get from your Mets offense.
09:00But, okay, let's talk Carson Bench here, and let's play devil's advocate in his favor.
09:06Because I'm going to slightly push back on the notion that both these guys have to have really strong next
09:12month in order to be in this conversation.
09:14Because I would argue that Carson Bench is not only in this conversation already, but you could rightfully argue that
09:19he's ahead of J.J. Weatherholder, Ray, with what's been happening since May.
09:22And to further expand on that, let's get into some very key numbers to really go to bat for Carson
09:28and explain how he's kind of put himself in a little bit of a class of his own here.
09:32Okay, because if we look, the first month, month and a half of the year, Carson didn't do anything besides
09:38that home run on opening day against the Pirates.
09:42He was non-existent, clapping the ball opposite field, constantly behind on pitches, and he wasn't looking as sharp as.
09:48Now, as we take a look at what Carson Bench is able to do, it includes the following.
09:53For starters, per JustBaseball on X, Bench is just one of four Mets rookie position players ever in team history
10:02to put up a three-plus fan graphs wins above replacement.
10:05He has the highest batting average and most stolen bases of the group.
10:08He has surpassed Pete Alonzo, Travis Darno, and Francisco Alvarez.
10:13So that's just Mets history we're talking.
10:15He's already at the top of the list talking about rookie years.
10:18Then let's get into the numbers a bit more as to where he's been among rookies this season.
10:24Okay, we're talking total rookies, National League and American League.
10:28So far this year, position players, Kevin McGonigal, the Philly native for the Detroit Tigers, leads the way at just
10:35under five or a 4.7.
10:37J.J. Weatherholt, who again, has had a very good season, but a tremendous start to the year.
10:42Let's not forget that.
10:43That's what stuck out with J.J. of 4.5 or now Carson Bench has already climbed to third on
10:49that list with over 3F4 this season.
10:52So he has been skyrocketing at his current pace.
10:55Then we add in the fact that coming into this past day, going back to the same date of all
11:01the way of April 23rd, in which things really started to turn around for him, in which he's batted 300
11:07with a 355 on base and a 463 slug.
11:11That's good for roughly 820 OPS during that time.
11:14Only 18 players in baseball have a higher F4 than Carson Bench.
11:20Okay?
11:21Only 18 in all of baseball have higher war than Carson Bench for basically the entire season.
11:28Then we add in another really important layer is when you look at J.J. Weatherholt specifically and Bench side
11:34-by-side with their offensive metrics.
11:36Bench is already leapfrogging him when it comes to home runs, how the OPS is looking.
11:42The fact that he's batted 300 consistently, basically, since late April, early May, is why he's in this conversation.
11:50Then you add in the fact, huh, who has shown great defensive value, this is not to shortchange what J
11:58.J. has done.
11:59But Carson Bench has literally been a human highlight reel in right field this year.
12:03I mean, he's had more outfield assists that I've seen in right field than I feel like I've seen from
12:09any Mets right fielder combined for the past half decade.
12:11That's how good he's been this year for the Mets.
12:13Then you add in, oh, yeah, he can steal bags.
12:16He's going to have a 20-20 season at minimum, but probably right around an 800 OPS when looking at
12:21home runs and stolen bags.
12:22So we can continue to unravel and get through the layers that is Carson Bench's success this year.
12:27But I think my point here stands, Dex.
12:29He has absolutely made himself known as one of the better multi-tool talents in the National League.
12:35And you want to know what excites me more about this than anything else, Dex?
12:39So?
12:40If you had to take a single guess, what excites you more than the stuff that you've mentioned already?
12:46The main thing that excites me is the fact that I want to give myself a significant pat on the
12:51back for thinking of this comp heading into the year and that being so unbelievably accurate.
12:57Carson Bench is doing exactly in so many ways what Jackson Merrill was doing two years ago in his rookie
13:02year for the San Diego Padres.
13:04Stepping him for Juan Soto.
13:06Soto gets traded to the Bronx.
13:07They need their rookie outfielder to step up.
13:09And what did Jackson Merrill do that year?
13:11Have a rookie of the year season for the San Diego Padres in more ways than one.
13:15So all I'm saying is I'm seeing a lot of parallel here from a couple years ago, three years ago
13:22to now.
13:23Bench has so much similarity in the way that he plays, the way that he is fire, and his ability
13:27to clutch up with runners and scoring position.
13:29He really does have so many elements that I'm smiling cheek to cheek because this was the goal.
13:34This was the hope. Could he be a Jackson Merrill-type impact rookie year, year one?
13:38He's done exactly that.
13:40Here's the thing I will always remember.
13:42We talked about this in spring training.
13:44You were very high on, you know, you were talking about people you'd spoken to around him and his character
13:50and his mental makeup.
13:51And I think what proves to be true with that and where I wax poetic about Bench is we saw
13:57the opening day home run.
13:59And that was great.
14:01And then we saw him struggle after that as, you know, look, he's a rookie.
14:04But you saw the mental toughness in fighting and sort of getting better as the season went along.
14:08And I love that you brought that up as part of your point for Bench, that you've seen him get
14:14become better as a player.
14:15You've seen the confidence rise.
14:17I do think for him in this conversation of just not against McClain, but rookie of the year, I do
14:23think his defense should be a huge factor in this.
14:26I do.
14:26When you've got over nine outfield assists, when your arm ranks in the 98th percentile in baseball, like he does.
14:33Nothing you can do.
14:34Yo, I'm like, at this point, watching him play, I'm like, why are you sending anybody against him?
14:42They're not doing their scouting report.
14:44That's what they're not doing.
14:45The Padres didn't do it.
14:47The Padres were like, oh, this kid ain't like Jack Samaro rookie.
14:50Yeah, we're fine.
14:51Oh, my God, he's even better.
14:53Yeah.
14:54Why are we, not we, but why is anybody else, the opposition, sending anybody against this guy right now?
15:00His arm is ridiculous.
15:01So, and listen, everything backs it up.
15:04He's, you know, he became the second rookie after Strawberry, that great job, Strawberry, one of my favorite players of
15:09all time, to record at least 15 homers, 50 steals in the season.
15:12This is how good this guy's been for the Mets historically, as Wardy, you pointed out.
15:15Wardy, before we move on from this, I do have a question that I think is interesting here.
15:21I was going to go some one way, but I think to reframe it this way.
15:24What do you think is actually harder for the Mets in what they've done with these two players?
15:29To find a starter that can give you 150 plus innings, where McClain is at, right, with swing and miss
15:34stuff that we've seen, or harder to find an everyday outfielder that can give you 20 homers, 20 steals, and
15:42have a cannon of an arm and give you the impact defensively.
15:45What do you think is harder to find in either of those guys, and then have them come up and
15:49produce at the major league level and do that?
15:51It's a great question, because there's rightful arguments for both.
15:54From the starter standpoint, you know how much of a rarity feels like in today's game to get quality starting
15:59pitching, let alone guys that can put up the numbers that McClain is doing at such a young age.
16:03But I would still lean more towards Benj here, because for Nolan, this was an expectation of mine heading into
16:10the year with the sliver that we saw last season.
16:12I think if we didn't see anything of Nolan last year, different conversation, because I didn't really know what we're
16:16getting at the major league level yet.
16:18Nolan is doing a continuation of what we expected him to do from him getting his feet wet towards the
16:23end of 2025.
16:25For Benj, it's a completely different beast when we look at this, because the way that he's really immersed himself
16:31in this conversation, I think, has been not only entertaining,
16:34but he's done things that, again, that we just haven't seen nearly to the level of like, the Mets haven't
16:42had a homegrown outfield talent of Benj's caliber since literally a decade ago
16:47when a guy by the name of Brandon Nemo was first blossoming in this outfield.
16:50So it's so fitting how Nemo, the baton, has passed from him to Benj.
16:56That's something that the Mets said that they wanted to do, and were truthful with Nemo when they traded him
17:00and said that we want to have a door open for one of our young outfielders.
17:04And give them credit. They've stuck by that, and it's worked out brilliantly for them.
17:08And I just think knowing that how long it's been since the Mets have had something like this, they've had
17:14their fair share of starters over the years.
17:15You know, they fluctuate in success, but starting pitching is something that the Mets will continue to find and continue
17:21to develop.
17:21When it comes to an outfield talent like Carson Benj, these guys don't just grow on trees.
17:26And I'm not saying that McLean does either, but I really need to give Carson his flowers today, not just
17:30to go to bat for what my defense is,
17:32but just because of how much of a rarity it's been in Mets franchise history.
17:36You know, we could rattle off a lot of very good pitchers that the Mets have had over the past
17:4110 to 15 years.
17:42Homegrown talents are guys that they've added for short term.
17:44When we talk on homegrown outfield talents, outside of Michael Conforto's first half of his career,
17:52Brandon Nemo is really the only other guy that comes to mind.
17:54So for that reason especially, I have to go with Carson Benj.
17:58So I don't disagree with you when you look at it historically.
18:01And you brought up Nemo, you brought up Conforto, and I've watched a little bit more Mets baseball than you,
18:08but...
18:09Just a little bit.
18:10But, I mean, you're going...
18:13You really...
18:14I mean, listen, I just gave the strawberry stat.
18:16You have to go back to Darryl Strawberry.
18:19Now, there's been a lot of highly touted Mets prospects in the outfield over the years.
18:24Jay Payton, folks will remember.
18:26Lastings Millage.
18:28Lastings Millage.
18:30Mets legend, baby.
18:31Mets fans know this, but...
18:34Have they come up and produced in the way that we're seeing Benj do?
18:38No.
18:38No.
18:39This is...
18:40Again, when your name is next to Darryl Strawberry in numbers or something you've accomplished as a rookie, you're doing
18:48something really great.
18:49Okay?
18:49Really great.
18:50Right.
18:50And it shows you how long it's been to that point, Wardy, since you've seen something like that.
18:56So, in terms of what he's produced this year, and obviously we're just talking about this year, we don't know
19:00what'll be going past this.
19:02He's absolutely one of the best, highly touted Mets outfield prospects that have come up and actually lived up to
19:09the hype.
19:09We've seen him live up to the hype.
19:11And so, you got to like that.
19:12All right.
19:13I want to move on to something else.
19:14We're going to keep it with Benj.
19:16We talked about Benj's defense.
19:18We talked about A.J. Ewing throughout the year.
19:21And that's a surprise.
19:22We did not see that call-up coming.
19:24David Stearns was actually doing...
19:26What do you want him to do?
19:26He's out here being proactive, folks.
19:28This is what you want him to see.
19:29Walby is son of a gun.
19:31He's finally listening, Dex.
19:33It took two and a half years, but we're finally here.
19:36I just saw how both of us got so excited about Benj's defense, right?
19:40And talking about why is anybody even running on him.
19:42But when you look at what him and A.J. Ewing could do, and we saw just a week ago
19:45what
19:45they did against the Padres with those outfield assists, do you look at them as they've changed
19:53what the Mets are capable of defensively in the outfield?
19:56Because you, and I got to give you credit, my friend, you talked so much at the top of
19:59the year about how this team has to become more athletic overall.
20:04And you talked about it a lot when A.J. Ewing came up.
20:07But now, do you look at this as, hey, this outfield defense, the way they are setting up around
20:10with these two guys and Juan Soto, who we think may play a little more D.H.
20:14as time goes on?
20:15Do you think they have really transformed this Mets outfield defense?
20:19Yeah.
20:19I mean, listen, going back to the start of the year, one thing that made it so easy to
20:23emphasize why the Mets need to be athletic more is because we've seen them not be athletic.
20:28I mean, even with Juan Soto having north of a 40 stolen by a year, there's a lot of things
20:32to be discouraged by.
20:33And I also think about the Crosstown rival constantly in this sense.
20:37And shout out to the great Ryan Sampson here at the Post, who knows this far too well when
20:42it comes to not having good fundamental baseball, not proper base running, not having athletes,
20:48but more so too many guys at the same position that have to play out of their position.
20:51We're all tired of that.
20:53Whether you're in the Bronx space or the Queens space, it's not good for baseball.
20:57You're not going to have quality ball out of that.
20:58And for the Mets, having Benj have the blossoming he's had, but having Ewing, who is doing exactly,
21:06I know he's been cooling off lately, but doing exactly what he's done all throughout his young
21:09professional career.
21:10He looks so good in spring training.
21:12I was salivating over him.
21:13I told him, like Benj is going to be in the big, pardon me, Ewing is going to be in
21:16the
21:16bigs this year.
21:17I don't know exactly when yet, but he's 100% going to be here with the way he's playing
21:21as long as he continues it.
21:22And how can you not be ecstatic about this outfield decks?
21:24Absolutely, they have been upgraded in the sense of defensive performance and overall
21:29athletic ability.
21:31Ewing is a speed demon.
21:32He's a high flyer.
21:33As great as Benj is, I kind of like AJ Ewing a little bit more defensively when it comes
21:38to range.
21:38That shows you how impressive he is as a 21-year-old.
21:42Benj has the arm.
21:43Not that Ewing doesn't, because he threw out a guy as well in that Poggers game a couple
21:47days ago.
21:48Benj just did it one more time, because he's a madman two times in the first inning.
21:51No one does that, but Carson Benj does that.
21:53That's who, but Carson's the guy in right.
21:55You got AJ in center, and these are guys, as long as they can stay healthy and as long
21:59as they can avoid the concern that can happen, like a Steven Quan profile, who's fluctuated
22:06a lot this year, for example, as more of your slap hitter, very good defender.
22:09But when you lose that contact ability a bit, your game struggles a lot.
22:13Then you look more of a fourth outfielder type because you don't bring as much to the
22:16table.
22:17So for Ewing and for Benj, I'm more focused on them being able to stay afloat as they
22:22get into their sophomore year next year.
22:24Will they have a slump?
22:25If so, to what degree?
22:26Because if they don't, and if they can stay relative to what they're doing now, I mean,
22:30the Mets are perfectly primed for an outfield for the future for at minimum the next five,
22:34God willing, 10 years of having some fantastic talents there.
22:37I've been unbelievably impressed with their defensive range and ability, and it's been
22:42life-changing and life-saving for Mets starters at times.
22:46I mean, the way that Benj is, again, able to seamlessly get outfield assists the way that
22:49he is, the way that Ewing provides so much ground and center that allows a Luis Robert
22:55to get some reps in left field, that you don't need to be overly reliant on a broken-backed
23:00Robert and let him kind of get more comfortable and acclimated.
23:04And look what he did against his former club in Southside with two bombs the other day.
23:08So I'm really happy with the Mets defense and the pure athleticism that comes with them.
23:13I want to see more of it.
23:15I don't think that we should stop now.
23:16And I think that the influx of talent over the next calendar year is only going to help
23:20in that regard.
23:21So going back to you, Dex, I know you're going to follow that up in a second, but I want
23:25to hear from you.
23:26What has been your biggest takeaway from how the Mets defense looked maybe at the inception
23:30of the season, a month, month and a half, and outfield-wise, to what it's
23:34looked like since?
23:34Yeah, my biggest takeaway is, or I guess I would say excitement around this too, is
23:39that, oh man, what is this going to do as the Mets reshape their pitching staff?
23:44How much is this going to help the pitching staff and their confidence going forward?
23:48If you're Nolan McLean, who we just talked about, and you know, hey, maybe you're not
23:52on it, you don't have your best stuff, a ball gets hit to the gap, well, you've got
23:56confidence that an A.J.
23:58Ewing could run down, make a great play.
24:00Carson Ben just got the ground to do it.
24:02Or if the ball's hit in front of them and a guy's trying to take an extra bag, they're
24:06going to have to think twice about testing those arms.
24:08They don't want to do that.
24:09That is huge for the team.
24:11That's huge for pitching because it stops smaller innings from turning into bigger innings
24:16and compounding the problem when you feel like you have good defense out there.
24:20And that is my biggest takeaway because you can see some of these plays.
24:23You can see how they uplift the team.
24:25There's no stat for that.
24:27You can't put a value on that.
24:29It's just something you can see watching baseball, right?
24:32How that pumps up a pitcher, maybe gets them through the next batter or two, pumps up the
24:36team the next inning when they come up to hit because, hey, my guys were busting their
24:39ass out there.
24:40They're diving for balls.
24:41They're making plays.
24:42They're throwing guys out.
24:43All these things matter in terms of winning.
24:46And look, I didn't know what this looked like, like you said, because I hadn't seen it
24:49in so long in the Mets outfields, right?
24:51I hadn't seen this kind of athleticism, this kind of defensive play.
24:54It's kind of two-way play.
24:55The other part that you mentioned that is a big standout for me, I won't say standout,
24:59but it's more of what I'm looking for going forward as these guys make adjustments, as
25:04we will see in their sophomore years, is that, okay, are you still able to be multifaceted?
25:10Are you still able to have the hitting profile with the defensive profile?
25:14Are you able to keep your defensive mindset strong in the field when you're going through
25:19slumps?
25:20These are the things you're looking for with young players.
25:22And hopefully both of these guys are able to do this.
25:25I think my last thing on this topic for you, Wardy, is you talked about how this team needs
25:32to get more athletic.
25:33You've seen two players come up and do this this year.
25:36But now do you think this is something the Mets have to still lean into even more as they're
25:42bringing up other young players, particularly in the infields, right?
25:46We've seen in the outfield, but now in the infield, do you want to see this athleticism?
25:50Not that everything has to be about athleticism, but do you want to see that sort of trend
25:53continue with the young guys they're bringing up?
25:56Oh, no doubt.
25:57I mean, if we just take a current moment to look at the Mets structure of their infield,
26:01right?
26:01You have predominantly Jared Young at first base, who has been rock solid all year long.
26:05I don't want to discredit him.
26:07What an awesome year Jared Young has had.
26:08And it's a shout out.
26:09And not that we can give many proper shout outs to David Stearns because he hasn't done a lot
26:14of things right.
26:14This was one of them.
26:16And the reason why it was one of them is because Stearns was very adamant on acquiring
26:20Jared Young two years ago.
26:21I mean, it was literally one of the first moves he made in the offseason two years ago
26:25to sign him from the KBO.
26:26We're like, who's this Jared Young guy from the KBO after, you know, basically being a
26:31guy who's also hit well in the minor leagues, but it's been more of this mainstay minor
26:34league guy.
26:35That's an example of David Stearns actually having proper player evaluation and saying,
26:39hey, we can get a lot more out of him than what he's been able to do in his major
26:42league
26:42career thus far.
26:43Now, outside of Jared Young, you have Marcus Simeon at second base.
26:47This is where poor player evaluation comes in, Dex, okay?
26:50And when you have a player like Simeon, who has been, I think, while yes, he's had some
26:56solid games for the Mets this year, it doesn't change to the larger issue.
26:59You have someone who's still batting close to the Mendoza line, not even scratching a
27:03700 OPS at second base.
27:05And a guy who's known as a defensive stronghold at that second base position, one of the
27:10best defensive second basemans in baseball is no longer the case.
27:14He is not that same glove that he used to be.
27:16He has been a liability at times for the Mets this year.
27:19And then your $341 million man, you don't know what you're getting every single day with
27:23him defensively.
27:24It is a complete crapshoot as to what you're getting with Lindor on the day-to-day.
27:27And it's a shame to say that, but that's the reality.
27:29He's done better lately.
27:31But whether it's the defense or the base running, we're kind of just waiting to see
27:35how Lindor is going to self-sabotage at some point throughout the game.
27:39It's going to happen at least once lately with just the trend of this year.
27:42And then you have Bo Bichette at the hot corner, who not an overly athletic talent, nothing
27:47about him screams overly athletic, but he's really handled that hot corner well, which
27:52has been nice.
27:53And while Bo is looking like he will return to the Mets next year, it doesn't change the
27:58fact the Mets could still be doing a greater job in bolstering this infield with athleticism.
28:03So Dex, who do you think I'm going to say is an individual that can have an immediate
28:09impact for this Mets team when looking at pure athleticism for the infield?
28:15Your boy, Mitch Voigt?
28:17Very close.
28:18Very close.
28:19Oh, that wasn't him.
28:20Oh, I thought that wasn't him.
28:21Our last episode where Ernest Dove, you and Ernest Dove were, you know, praising him.
28:28Absolutely.
28:28Mitch is up there.
28:29Okay.
28:30But I don't think Mitch will be the first option.
28:31That's why we can't start with Mitch.
28:35Not our boy, our boy Petrie?
28:37It's our boy Petrie.
28:39Okay, got you.
28:40Well, see, the thing with him, and this kind of goes to where I think we'll wrap on about
28:46the who's the next Mets that we think can come up and do what Ewing and Benj and McLean
28:54are doing.
28:57Petrie, we've waxed poetic about the low strikeout rate.
29:03But the other point of it, very steady in the field, man, very steady in the field, can
29:09give you a little bit of speed.
29:10I don't think he maybe has the eye-popping athleticism of like a Ewing or a Benj.
29:16Agreed.
29:16For sure.
29:17He doesn't.
29:18But he's just, to your point.
29:19But you don't need that, right?
29:21You don't need that.
29:22Yeah, you just need a guy who's going to come in and be rather consistent.
29:26And that's what we've seen with Petrie at the minor league level, right?
29:29He's looked like a guy that can handle second base every single day without even thinking
29:32twice about it.
29:33And that's what the Mets need.
29:34They just need that.
29:36They just need that stability.
29:37That's the most important thing of guys that are not in their mid to late 30s, already
29:42far past their prime and they're breaking bones and ankles or whatever in every second as
29:46they continue to play the position versus a guy like Petrie in his early 20s, but it's
29:50so much more blossoming to do.
29:52So even if he does have a defensive hiccup here or there, you know the likelihood of him
29:56maybe getting out of that rut and figuring himself out is far greater than a guy who's
30:00been here and done that, but doesn't physically have the same talent that he used to.
30:04And that's out of his control because he's getting older.
30:08Yeah.
30:09For me, I'm glad you brought that up.
30:11I think when we talk about athleticism, people are going to think a lot of times it's got
30:15to be, oh man, he's got to have like this amazing range.
30:19And it's like sometimes just being shorthanded, having the right fundamentals, moving it, especially
30:24in the second base, moving your feet, sliding over, making the play and knowing, you know,
30:28we love the hitting profile for him because I really do.
30:32Um, so is he, is he your next met?
30:35Not just in terms of athleticism, is he the next met you think that comes up and has an
30:39impact on this team?
30:40The way we're talking about Benj, Ewing and McClain, is he your next guy?
30:45Between Benj, McClain, Ewing, I would say Petrie's the next man up because I've been
30:50very consistent.
30:51I think he will be that next one up.
30:53I, if Mitch Voight leapfrogs Petrie to get to the big league level, congratulations
30:58him.
30:58I'm not at all going to complain by that.
31:00That's exactly right.
31:01Right.
31:02Right.
31:03But we're just basing things off of where things are currently structured.
31:06Right.
31:06He's already in triple A.
31:08He's getting on base consistently multiple times a game there.
31:10He just got on base twice this past night.
31:12At the time of us talking right now, Voight has been tremendous.
31:14I do think Voight is the better overall athlete between the two.
31:18He's uber athletic.
31:19I think Voight, from a defensive standpoint, will cause more of the oohs and ahs that you'll
31:24see in the Mets infield versus what Petrie could do for you.
31:27However, Petrie is that next man, I think, up on the ladder to get that debut at some
31:32point.
31:32So let's talk about him now, knowing that he's knocking on the door.
31:36And then once Mitch Voight is there, then we'll have that further discussion and say,
31:39you know what?
31:40These are good with Petrie, but these might even be greater with Voight in this infield
31:44too.
31:44You know, he just, he has great defensive range.
31:47I don't know if you remember his scouting report out of Michigan, but when the Mets draft
31:50in the second round, you know, just over a year ago, I mean, the big takeaway with Voight
31:54was that the hit tools were good, needed to work on them a little bit more of the professional
31:58level, but defensively the range was a lot to be excited about.
32:01And it was someone who could, again, make a long ranging throws in the infield at any
32:06point and especially with his ability to steal bags.
32:08That's another exciting thing.
32:10We're talking defense, but if we just at least summarize a multi tool town as a whole
32:15decks, you got Voight who can steal bags.
32:17Like it's nobody's business.
32:18You got Petrie with over 30 stolen bags in the minor leagues this year.
32:21Which I met Sammy Stafora, who would love to be on this big league club sooner
32:24than later in high right now, New York native.
32:28He is might be with the most athletic of the group.
32:31He's that good defensively at shortstop.
32:34Yeah, and he's a very good base runner.
32:35So it's going to come down with someone like him who's made a huge jump upward this year
32:41offensively.
32:42But yeah, good problems to have for the New York Mets when we look at their future.
32:45It is a great problem.
32:47We didn't even talk about Jefferson Rojas.
32:48We haven't even talked about our top prospect.
32:51We haven't even talked about our top prospect.
32:53That's hilarious.
32:54It's because it's because I don't think Rojas is going to get the call ahead of Petrie.
32:58I don't think so either.
33:00And because the difference and this is where it benefits.
33:02This is why I love this damn Freddie Peralta trade so much, man.
33:05I can't get over it.
33:06I've never seen anybody more excited about a sell trade than you've been over Freddie Peralta.
33:11I like the return the Mets got back more in this Freddie Peralta trade.
33:14They do what they gave up for Freddie.
33:17That's how much I'm liking this deal for them.
33:19Like I really like Gary Gill Hill.
33:20I think he's a guy that can impact us as soon as next year.
33:23Shout out Ernest Duffer thinking the same.
33:25And then you got it.
33:25You know, Aiden Smith is in that group and outfield prospect who has a little bit more polishing
33:29to do.
33:30But really, it's just Petrie.
33:32It's the fact that these are guys that can impact you where the difference between a
33:35million Petrie and say a Jefferson Rojas or a Mitch Voight, right?
33:39Those guys are the more coveted prospects in the group.
33:41So while this doesn't go for every team in baseball, what does happen at times is you
33:46don't maybe want to consider rushing up those top guys to the same degree.
33:50You want to make sure that everything is exactly how you want it before they make their
33:54debut.
33:55Whereas Petrie not as coveted of a prospect and the eyes of maybe the Mets farm right now,
34:00but he's already so polished with his hit tools.
34:03Why wouldn't they be like, you know what?
34:04Let's get Petrie to try first here because God forbid if things don't work out like it's
34:09okay.
34:09Like we're it's not the end of the world.
34:11It's not like he's our cream of the cream.
34:13It's not like he's our top 100 prospect the way that Rojas is even though Petrie should
34:17be in that conversation sooner or later.
34:19That's why another factor as to why I think this is going to work out because I don't think
34:23the Mets view him in the same light as Rojas and the pressure that will mount with
34:28someone like him or Voight and the same thing, especially when you look at third base in
34:32the future of whether Bo's playing there or not because Rojas is likely going to play
34:36more of the hot corner once he gets to the big league level.
34:39What what I was going to say is sometimes for a player like Petrie just on the other side
34:43and their mindset knowing that organization doesn't view you as highly and I don't I know
34:48we have what you're saying.
34:49We're not saying not in a slight just based on like they have their depth and right
34:53there's no top of their list right now.
34:55But sometimes for a guy like him that you've talked about and I've talked about that is
34:58hit at every level and it's just a couple of AAA games but showing that he can do that
35:02too.
35:03Sometimes a guy like him is motivated by that and you don't know what that player could
35:06become when they get their opportunity on the major league level and maybe a million
35:10Petrie is just a fourth infielder, right?
35:14A fifth infielder I should say or just a bench guy utility guy.
35:17Maybe that's what he is.
35:18Maybe he's not.
35:18Maybe he's Jeff McNeil and he's somebody who can hit for you at second base and a guy you
35:23could put at the top of the order and get on base and all you don't know but his profile
35:27does suggest I'm with you that when we talk about McClain and Benj and Ewing that he can
35:33be that next guy that can come up not be overwhelmed by the pressure and contribute to this club.
35:40However, that might be I'm not projecting what he's going to be or how exactly he's going
35:43to look however that might be.
35:45I think it seems like he could be the most ready and one thing you have to give David
35:50Stearns credit on.
35:51He brought up the young arms in 2025 right and McClain.
35:56We saw how good he was.
35:57He's built on that.
35:58He let Ben start out a camp.
36:00He brings up AJ Ewing when none of us saw that coming and those guys have been ready.
36:06So we could talk all the development stuff we want.
36:09Part of it is being proactive, favorite wordy word, and also recognizing who's ready to come
36:15up and help and hand and handle it and that are you going to work through them when they
36:19come up because the thing we can talk about Benj, the thing we've talked about, it started
36:23off great for him and then it wasn't and then it got better right and credit to him because
36:28he had the mental fortitude to do it and the Mets staff and working with him.
36:31You want play more players like that, that are going to come up and be able to help and
36:36have that fortitude.
36:37So look, all in all, we talked about this and it's this positivity to talk about with
36:44the Mets with some young players, even in the season that hasn't been that great.
36:48Wardy and I have found some ways to be positive.
36:50Well, I thought we had a good discussion at the top of this episode.
36:53What do you not talked about?
36:54Who would we pick for NL rookie of the year in the Mets?
36:58Who's a better candidate?
36:59Is it Carson Benj?
37:00Is it Nolan McClain?
37:02I went with Nolan McClain.
37:03Wardy went with Carson Benj.
37:04Let us know in the comments what you think.
37:06Who do you think is a better candidate?
37:08And state why too.
37:10State your why too.
37:11We want to hear why from you on that.
37:14A lot of good stuff to be excited about with the Mets here, Wardy.
37:17And I really like this.
37:18We've talked a lot about prospects, but in some interesting ways, but it's also nice this
37:22week to talk about some guys, some young players who have produced here, excuse
37:27me, on the major league level for the Mets in the NL rookie of the year conversation.
37:32I know Dex.
37:33I wasn't.
37:33I got to be honest.
37:34I wasn't expecting to talk too much on the current status of the team with how the year
37:38has been trending.
37:38So it's always nice when we can actually deep dive into positives that's happening with
37:43the Mets, let alone two guys in a worthy conversation of NL rookie of the year.
37:47I mean, if you would have said heading into the year that the Mets would have one player
37:51in that conversation, fans would be ecstatic, let alone two.
37:54And if Ewing didn't, you know, maybe if Ewing started the year with the Mets on time, who
37:59knows?
38:00Maybe he would have entered that conversation a little bit more.
38:02So all in all good things to be positive about and Mets land while there's still 12,
38:0813 games below 500.
38:10I know.
38:11Who would have thought that?
38:12Who would have thought that?
38:13All right.
38:13Some positivity.
38:14As I said, let us know what you think in the comments about these Mets young players
38:17who can come up next and be like Carson Bench, AJ Ewing, or Nolan McClain.
38:21Please let us know.
38:22That's going to do it for this edition of Straight Outta Flushing.
38:25That's my guy, Tyler Ward, AKA Wardy.
38:27I'm Dexter Henry.
38:28We'll catch you next time on another edition of Straight Outta Flushing.
38:31Peace.
38:39Peace.
38:40Peace.
38:40Peace.
38:40Peace.
38:40Peace.
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