How much are Malaysians really allowed to know?
We unpack the FOI Bill 2026 with CIJ Executive Director Wathshlah G. Naidu.
#FreedomofInformation #FOI #Bills #SinarDaily
We unpack the FOI Bill 2026 with CIJ Executive Director Wathshlah G. Naidu.
#FreedomofInformation #FOI #Bills #SinarDaily
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00:00executive director of center for in the band
00:00:37director of the band
00:00:37director of center for the Characl
00:00:37director of center for center for center
00:11:30Yeah.
00:11:32There's so many years.
00:14:40Okay.
00:15:36So,
00:22:46You are limited.
00:28:50But you have to table that first, at least to give some assurance, right?
00:28:55It's going to come.
00:28:55What if it's not tabled indefinitely?
00:28:58This bill is passed on the presumption there is going to be a mechanism, right?
00:29:03Not a concrete one.
00:29:05It's not saying you create an oversight body, right?
00:29:10And then we have to ask this question.
00:29:12Duka, apa perana an oversight body?
00:29:14Why do we keep saying oversight body and we don't say ombudsman, right?
00:29:17Because in the bill, the only role for the ombudsman is to do the external review.
00:29:23Itupun, it's limited.
00:29:25What it says is, one, the so-called ombudsman that doesn't exist has investigative powers.
00:29:34And here, they've exempted, right?
00:29:37In the bill, they have removed and they basically explicitly kata,
00:29:40the investigation powers of the ombudsman would not apply in the course of freedom of information review.
00:29:50Non-existent mechanism.
00:29:53And then you're already limiting the functions of the mechanism.
00:29:55And the mechanism would also be bound by other secrecy provisions.
00:30:00What's the point, right?
00:30:02And then we always say, we have to understand, FOI is a specialized issue, right?
00:30:10You know, it literally took me about eight, nine years now to even understand the full scope of what is
00:30:19FOI, right?
00:30:20Now, the ombudsman function is to deal with integrity issues,
00:30:24is to deal with maladministration, two different specialization, right?
00:30:30And the ombudsman, and like in many other countries, they give recommendation, right?
00:30:37So, and the FOI oversight functions basically would require somebody to have the highest level of clearance to access information,
00:30:49to conduct investigation, and to direct, right?
00:30:54See, the terms are used here.
00:30:55It's not taboleh, but recommendation.
00:30:57If it's a recommendation, you think what, any of the heads of agency is going to, this one, follow, no?
00:31:03They've already said no.
00:31:05Why would they want to follow another recommendation?
00:31:07It has to be a directive to them to say, now you have to disclose, or you have to show
00:31:11the harm, right?
00:31:13So, you are, two specialized role, two specialized mandate, right?
00:31:19And then on top of that, if you look at many other progressive countries, the role of the oversight is
00:31:25beyond appeal, right?
00:31:27Okay, yes.
00:31:27Technically, it shouldn't even reach the appeal thing, because if you're working on the spirit of what is FOI,
00:31:34it's already about proactive disclosure.
00:31:37That means all government agencies must have a publication scheme.
00:31:41And in fact, it's not going to be very difficult.
00:31:43I mean, it's going to be a little bit challenging, but you look at every government website.
00:31:48So, the other, right?
00:31:52Even MyDataGov, right?
00:31:54It has information.
00:31:55DOSEM, Department of Studies.
00:31:57It's information.
00:31:58It's there.
00:31:59It's all over the website.
00:32:00Exactly.
00:32:01So, it's just a question of streamlining what information should go and be made publicly.
00:32:06Now, once, and that's the role of the oversight, you work with the government agencies so that they have a
00:32:12publication scheme that meets the threshold.
00:32:16And then you monitor, then you help train the information officers.
00:32:21And only towards the end, you do the review, the appeals, right?
00:32:25If everything else works, the appeals numbers will go down.
00:32:30So, that technically, you know, then you have to look at it in the context of the full functions.
00:32:36So, we continue to urge, right?
00:32:38Don't link it to the Ombudsman.
00:32:40Have your own specialized agency, right?
00:32:43Di Malaysia kan banyak sangat.
00:32:45You look at it, just the last few years, how many councils have been set up.
00:32:51Even just last month, we were just, somebody pointed out that the statistics bill that was passed has a new
00:32:59council to be established, right?
00:33:03With the prime minister heading the council.
00:33:05And then it goes to the next point about the independence of this mechanism.
00:33:10It's about, you really need an independent expert to be able to deal with it because you're between the government
00:33:17and the public, right?
00:33:19That independence is going to be very critical.
00:33:22Yeah.
00:33:23And I want to touch on the fourth point why this is so problematic, which is the bill.
00:33:31And I cannot stop laughing.
00:33:33If not, I'll start crying.
00:33:35A couple of provisions, especially Clause 22, basically says that nothing in the bill may be construed as fundamental liberties
00:33:45under our constitution.
00:33:48Okay.
00:33:48You need to explain to me what that means.
00:33:50Yeah, I know.
00:33:51In layman terms, please, so everybody can understand.
00:33:54I wish somebody could explain why that provision is in there.
00:33:59Okay.
00:33:59But what it basically means is that you're saying that you, you know, you look at the bill, none of
00:34:05it guarantees you the fundamental liberties under part two of the constitution.
00:34:11If you look at part two of the federal constitution, it's about your rights.
00:34:15Yes.
00:34:15Your right to life.
00:34:16You know, look at Article 5, your right to life, your right to religion, your right to...
00:34:22Your rights to...
00:34:23I know.
00:34:24Your right to life, it's not guaranteed under this bill.
00:34:29So it doesn't mean that this, that all these provisions grants you that lie, right?
00:34:35And I think it's really problematic.
00:34:37What does that even mean?
00:34:39I know, that's exactly my question.
00:34:41Why do you need to have a negative provision?
00:34:44You might also just be silent if you don't want to say it expressly gives you the right.
00:34:50Most laws in any progressive state will say, will give you rights.
00:34:56Here you're saying, actually, this is not to give you rights.
00:34:58It's just to give you the procedures.
00:35:01That's what it's trying to say, right?
00:35:03But right to information or freedom of information is a right already, right?
00:35:09If you look at, say, Article 10 of our federal constitution, it talks about freedom of speech and expression.
00:35:17Now, how do you express yourself?
00:35:19How do you speak if you don't have access to information, right?
00:35:23I don't know why the drafters of our federal constitution left that out because the Universal Declaration of Human Rights
00:35:32in Article 19 includes the right to seek, receive, and impart information as part of freedom of expression and speech.
00:35:42Even ASEAN Human Rights Declaration, for that matter, says the same thing, right?
00:35:48So, we need to say there is a chance where we can't be posting anything we want on social media.
00:35:53That's not what, I mean, it doesn't go as far as to say that.
00:35:57It's basically saying, don't say this is your right under federal constitution.
00:36:01It doesn't make sense.
00:36:02Honestly, it really doesn't.
00:36:03But you know what is also very problematic, right?
00:36:06When you are drafted, when Parliament is drafting the law, it is, of course, interpreting the constitution.
00:36:12Yes.
00:36:12By putting a negative provisions like this, you are telling the court you cannot progressively interpret this.
00:36:19You already masot champu in the ombed, the mandate and jurisdiction of the courts.
00:36:26How can you tell the judiciary this is how you should interpret, right?
00:36:33So, you are crossing the line between the division of powers of what is a state.
00:36:38So, that is fundamental.
00:36:40I mean, that is, like, really a fundamental issue here for us because the first question would be, like, that's
00:36:48the first clause that I think people would challenge.
00:36:50Even I would challenge that clause, right?
00:36:52That would be a judicial review already.
00:36:53But you are basically saying, right to information or freedom of information is not a constitutional right.
00:37:00I can read it in so many different, how do you talk about right to life when you don't have
00:37:05access to information?
00:37:06Yeah.
00:37:07Right.
00:37:07How do you talk about freedom of information when you don't have, I mean, freedom of expression when you don't
00:37:12have access?
00:37:13It is given, right?
00:37:14You have so many laws that's related to information.
00:37:18You're data sharing act.
00:37:20How can you have a data sharing act and then you say that this bill is not, you know, recognized
00:37:28as a constitutional guarantee?
00:37:30None of this makes sense.
00:37:32You have a personal data protection act already, right?
00:37:36Data sharing act, statistics act, everything related to information and data.
00:37:41And now you're saying this doesn't recognize fundamental liberties in your federal constitution.
00:37:47It goes back to my first point.
00:37:50I don't know how the drafters can live with this and how the government can actually table such a bill.
00:37:58And I don't know if I want to say this, but I have to say it's so shoddily drafted.
00:38:03Right?
00:38:04I'm just so confused with the constitutional part too.
00:38:08Like, why is that even, why, why is that even, what are you trying to say?
00:38:13Are we trying to really, you know, I'm looking at the bill and even reading through the CLD's review and
00:38:21ratings, right?
00:38:22It's almost like, what is the government trying to cover up?
00:38:26Yes.
00:38:27Right?
00:38:27Literally, that's all that goes through my mind.
00:38:30Like, why, why, you know, like people are moving towards openness.
00:38:35People are saying that you need openness to address corruption.
00:38:38You need transparency.
00:38:39You need to be clear.
00:38:41You need to declare.
00:38:42You need to everything.
00:38:43And this is like, no, no, no, nothing is.
00:38:46Exactly.
00:38:47Let's protect the government.
00:38:48But then my question is, what are you protecting the government against, right?
00:38:51Corruption, right?
00:38:53And we've lived through this.
00:38:55So many, so many things could have been dealt with.
00:38:59One NDB scandal.
00:39:00I go so far, Tabong Haji.
00:39:02If we had had that information years ago, we would not be in the situation.
00:39:08It's so disillusioning, right?
00:39:12After so many years.
00:39:13Exactly.
00:39:14Yes.
00:39:14I mean, I've gone through the reports and I've gone through the assessment and I didn't like quite comprehend the
00:39:23part of the constitution until you're telling me right now.
00:39:26And I'm just like, what?
00:39:28Like, why?
00:39:29Exactly.
00:39:30So why even put it in there?
00:39:33Why is it even there?
00:39:34Like, what's the relevance to the whole thing?
00:39:37Like, and the audacity to call it freedom of information.
00:39:40It's just like, why don't you just call it like anti-freedom of life?
00:39:45Okay.
00:39:46So like, one question I do have, but I understand that we don't even have an ombudsman yet.
00:39:52Like, and then you're talking about oversight committee and stuff.
00:39:55But who actually will be the person watching the ombudsman, watching the watchdog?
00:40:03Actually, that's such a good.
00:40:05So, so there's a plan A and a plan B, right?
00:40:10So our plan A would be, yeah, go ahead with the ombudsman.
00:40:14I have to admit, as a pro temp committee, we had said, fine, go ahead.
00:40:17If that's the bare minimum we can get, go ahead with the ombudsman, right?
00:40:22But, there has to be some conditions.
00:40:25You cannot have like any random person.
00:40:27Exactly.
00:40:28Oh my God.
00:40:29Putting, you know, I was, when we were talking about the ombudsman just now, the first thing
00:40:34that came to mind, who is actually even qualified to be the ombudsman?
00:40:38You know, it's like somebody with so many different levels, you know, maladministration,
00:40:42integrity, governance, and now FOI, right?
00:40:46Yes.
00:40:46Where do you find this person?
00:40:48I don't know, right?
00:40:49And I really hope it's not a political appointee.
00:40:52That has to be really clear.
00:40:53The next thing is, if it's an ombudsman, who is going to appoint the ombudsman, right?
00:40:58Is that going to be appointed by a minister?
00:41:01Is it going to be appointed by a prime minister, right?
00:41:04That, I mean, we don't want to go into another AGPP drama, right?
00:41:08On the appointment, right?
00:41:10So this is the same question that's going to arise.
00:41:13Is there going to be a bipartisan parliamentary process of appointment, right?
00:41:18If that is so, then the oversight lies with the parliament, right?
00:41:23And if it's a bipartisan process, it gives a little bit more credibility.
00:41:27Because everybody, they're representing the people, and the parliament's basically representing
00:41:31the people from all sides.
00:41:33So there is some level of credibility.
00:41:35The same thing happens if it's going to be an independent commission, right?
00:41:40The appointment must be absolutely clear.
00:41:43Who is, because that then answers who's going to have the oversight over the oversight body,
00:41:47right?
00:41:48So that is clear.
00:41:50And it cannot be, you know, the prime minister having the oversight, because that means the
00:41:54exam, it's like, almost like I'm setting the exam questions, right?
00:41:59And then I'm marking it, right?
00:42:01I'm grading it the same way.
00:42:02So it's like, if you are saying that the prime minister is going to appoint the Ombudsman,
00:42:10the FOI commission, if we get there, then we are saying, I'm appointing it, I'm appointing
00:42:15you, but I'm also basically now asking, telling you, you have the mandate to disclose information
00:42:21that I hold, right?
00:42:23But at the end of the day, I'm appointing you, right?
00:42:26How can you then have the actual power and the function to question me and challenge me?
00:42:32Because then I would potentially just fire you.
00:42:34Yeah.
00:42:35Right.
00:42:35It's the same situation, like during 1MDB, like how the agency was just removed.
00:42:41Exactly.
00:42:41Exactly.
00:42:42So that's why the parliamentary oversight is going to be really, really critical.
00:42:49And, you know, if you look at some really interesting countries, you have to look at the CLD website,
00:42:55but also talk to some of the people because we brought them all here to Malaysia.
00:42:59Sri Lanka has a really interesting process, right?
00:43:02Okay.
00:43:02They have a commission, it's not just one commissioner, it's got a few commissioners and they represent.
00:43:07For example, the bar will recommend somebody, the press council will recommend somebody,
00:43:13there'll be a civil society representation there.
00:43:16Okay.
00:43:16So it's literally multi-stakeholder process, right?
00:43:19With very clear mandates.
00:43:21I think they have one of the, or they had, until there's a new change in government now with the
00:43:26budget cut and all,
00:43:27but they really had a commission that worked.
00:43:30Okay.
00:43:30And some of their decisions were amazing and, you know, it's such, such good precedent for the region.
00:43:37Okay.
00:43:38So you were talking about an independent commission for information.
00:43:42Would that cost more?
00:43:44It's such an interesting question.
00:43:46Of course it would cost me.
00:43:47Yeah.
00:43:47But the cost of not having one would ultimately higher, right?
00:43:55Because if the, if we, uh, we can just, the status quo now is OSA prevails over everything.
00:44:04Okay.
00:44:05And all the secrecy provision prevails over everything.
00:44:08All right.
00:44:09We can just continue status quo.
00:44:11Right.
00:44:12But it will also mean Malaysia will continue to be riddled with ongoing corruptions because we cannot,
00:44:19I will say this is the, the only definite hundred percent answer to it.
00:44:23Okay.
00:44:24But we don't even have enough information to challenge the government.
00:44:27Right.
00:44:27The public bodies.
00:44:29So the public authorities, we can, we as public can't even be the watchdog.
00:44:33We can't participate.
00:44:34Right.
00:44:35So that's going to be, the cost is going to be the 1MDB.
00:44:39The cost is going to be the tabuhaji.
00:44:42The cost is going to be all the people who are going to be forcibly relocated because there's
00:44:49a new highway.
00:44:50Or there is a development project, right?
00:44:52Or there is a data center that is, you know, just.
00:44:55Yes.
00:44:55But then you're constructed and you have no idea.
00:44:59Suddenly there is a huge building and you had no chance of protesting or what's the
00:45:05environmental impact, right?
00:45:08The real cost is always going to be higher.
00:45:12So yes, there is going to be a cost implication in setting up an independent commission.
00:45:18But if the independent commission does its job, the government sets up the appropriate
00:45:24infrastructure, all the, I won't say just the government, all public authority or bodies
00:45:29set up the right infrastructure to come up with their publication scheme, long run,
00:45:38this cost will be manageable, right?
00:45:40And when we talk about cost, the cost, the money comes from the public, right?
00:45:46It is from the public sport.
00:45:48We pay taxes, you know, so as I'm paying for the, you know, the civil service or the
00:45:56government or the public authorities and public bodies, I want access to the information that
00:46:01belongs to me.
00:46:02Yes.
00:46:02So that's the cost that's worth bearing, right?
00:46:05Because it's also a cost that could prevent larger issues, larger corruption, larger, I mean,
00:46:14billions of funds are going into these development infrastructure, things that would have broader
00:46:21implication on us.
00:46:23So I want to know that information.
00:46:26I think something so simple right now that everybody is feeling is the fact that data
00:46:30centers are mushrooming all over the country, right?
00:46:32Yeah.
00:46:33Especially Selangor and you see it in Johor.
00:46:36That would be it, right?
00:46:38Like just the fact that, did you know there is a construction happening next door and no,
00:46:45you didn't because we didn't get the right to the information and you didn't have the
00:46:49right to protest against it because you didn't have the proper information.
00:46:54And you still don't have the proper information.
00:46:57Sebab, you don't know, can you, can all the neighborhoods with data centers already there
00:47:05or coming up have access to the social impact assessment or the environmental impact assessment?
00:47:12Do they understand what this means long term?
00:47:15Do we even have access, these are all international agreements, right?
00:47:19Do we have access to this agreement, especially when it comes to issues around our own data?
00:47:25What is being, who has, who is going to ultimately have access to our data, right?
00:47:31What is the environment, environmental impact when it's so highly going to be dependent
00:47:38on resources here in Malaysia?
00:47:41So yes, investment's great, but it's investment must also be transparent.
00:47:47Not only that, is it worth it in general at the cost of the people, right?
00:47:52That, that's the, that's the evaluation that the public will have to make, but they would
00:47:58also have to make that decision or that evaluation on the basis of information they're able to
00:48:04access.
00:48:04And right now, if this is passed, it'll be even way harder to even just get.
00:48:11Absolutely, this is also going to already, because it's so, the purpose is so prescribed
00:48:17that it will limit our access to multiple types of information that we are probably
00:48:23already getting, but now you're going to have to show purpose.
00:48:26And like, if you're, if you're just like, ah, it's fine, it's fine.
00:48:32You, the people will definitely, this is just like, I feel like this exploits people who
00:48:37are just like half interested in things.
00:48:40Like, you know what I mean?
00:48:42Like people who put up like after 50% of effort, you're just like, if there's more, and like
00:48:48once I reach a hundred percent, there's like another 50% of consequences that may occur that
00:48:54I may be put to jail.
00:48:56Like, why do I even bother?
00:48:58Right.
00:48:59And you know, it creates two impact.
00:49:00One, it continues to build this, this distrust that we have in government, right?
00:49:06Because the trust deficit can be really low because you're not seeing, you're not having
00:49:10the access to information.
00:49:11Right.
00:49:11And then it opens up to all this, you know, this misinformation, disinformation that we
00:49:19now look to a different source, which is our social media.
00:49:23Yeah.
00:49:24Actually, I wanted to ask you about that.
00:49:25Like, it feels like we're going back, you know, like before social media came into power,
00:49:31we relied heavily on newspapers, traditional media, newspapers and TV broadcasting.
00:49:36Right.
00:49:38And, you know, the people were like, I don't trust the government.
00:49:42I don't trust the government.
00:49:44We're all fed through the media, mainstream media.
00:49:48We're fed.
00:49:49Now that there's social media, I feel like people have other options, but it doesn't mean
00:49:56it's legitimate or verified.
00:49:59Right.
00:49:59Exactly.
00:49:59But there's, now it plays a bigger role for the official media platforms to be the check
00:50:06and balance to social media.
00:50:08Because, because if you check, official media are not allowed to lie.
00:50:13And I mean, the whole difference is this, the angle or the type of stories that are pushed.
00:50:18But what I'm saying here is there's, there's two sides of checking and verifying.
00:50:23And if you don't trust the media or social media, you can actually go yourself and get
00:50:28the real information to cross-check all platforms.
00:50:31Exactly.
00:50:32Exactly.
00:50:32Yeah.
00:50:33And now it's just like, people can actually make things up on social media, which they
00:50:37are now, but there are no efforts to verify it further because of the law, because of the
00:50:45bill, potential law.
00:50:47Exactly.
00:50:47Because there's also an additional clause, like clause six, sub two, which basically says,
00:50:53it talks about the purposes, right?
00:50:57The prescribed purposes.
00:50:58And it also says nothing in here means it's a, and it also talks about media's access or
00:51:04journalists.
00:51:05Yes.
00:51:06And it also says nothing in this actually means there's a right to access.
00:51:11So it still goes back to a discretionary purpose.
00:51:16All right.
00:51:16So I can still request, you are the procedure, you tell, you know, you've got, you can still
00:51:21go to the house, you have the road, I can still go to the government agencies, but because
00:51:26of the prescribed purpose and because you're not guaranteed the right, you're not going
00:51:30to get that information.
00:51:31And in order, they just keep repeating that.
00:51:34There's like this whole thing, like the, you know, the exploratory statements and all the
00:51:39various courses that actually talks about OSA and the secrecy provisions and other
00:51:45laws.
00:51:45So that's like a recurring theme.
00:51:47And then if it's not enough, then they add on, right?
00:51:50The six, sub two and clause 22.
00:51:54Oh, none of this is actually a fundamental guarantee under the constitution.
00:51:58Like, I don't know how many more times they want to tell us that actually you're not really
00:52:02going to get access to information.
00:52:04This is just a procedure.
00:52:05It's like, OSA is here, right?
00:52:08But we'll show you the way you can actually try to access information that's perhaps not
00:52:15covered under OSA, which you can actually technically already get in most websites nowadays already.
00:52:19It's information that should not be under OSA because of the public interest override and because
00:52:27actually half the time the information doesn't, there is no harm in disclosing it.
00:52:34Just to, you know, you go to many government meetings and then you get the meeting report or something
00:52:40and then there's a RASIA.
00:52:41Yeah, why should it be RASIA?
00:52:44Yeah.
00:52:44Right?
00:52:44It's public information.
00:52:47So everything is RASIA without showing the harm.
00:52:50If there is a harm, I understand.
00:52:52It's an ongoing deliberation.
00:52:54It's going to be concluded in three weeks' time.
00:52:56Until it's concluded, it's RASIA.
00:52:59But after three weeks, disclose.
00:53:01The HAB is the meeting.
00:53:03Right?
00:53:03Okay, so one question before we end.
00:53:07I mean, we're going to end with the conclusion, but this is one question before we head to the conclusion.
00:53:13How has the MPs and politicians been towards FOI when, you know, discussing with you and engaging with you guys?
00:53:22It's an interesting thing, right?
00:53:25Because as we said, we've been engaging with the MPs with different states since 2005, 2008, right?
00:53:31Wow.
00:53:31First time ever when Slango and Penang.
00:53:342008?
00:53:342008, when Slango and Penang had a, you know, change in government, right?
00:53:40And they were so open.
00:53:41They really wanted to engage.
00:53:44And CIJ, we actually helped them think through some of these things.
00:53:48But of course, typical thing is after a certain point, the engagement stops when they start the drafting process, right?
00:53:55And you don't get to see the final draft.
00:53:57So that's why sometimes you're quite critical also of Penang and Slango, especially on the application procedures.
00:54:03Okay.
00:54:04But over the last few years, I would have to say, especially since 2018, 2019, there has been some very
00:54:12positive levels of engagement.
00:54:17It can be sporadic, but I have to, again, give credit to Bayou, regardless of which government change, they continue
00:54:25the engagement.
00:54:26Every year, we'll have a collaborative event since 2019, right?
00:54:30And then what happened, in 2024, we worked together with Bayou to organize a trip to Australia.
00:54:40Okay.
00:54:40So we had two MPs there, one from the AP and one at that time was with the opposition.
00:54:47And we had representatives from Bayou, from the personal data commissioner himself joined us.
00:54:55And then we had a, at that time was Mampu, now I think it's Jabatan Datanegara.
00:55:01We also had representatives from AGC, right?
00:55:04So the MPs' collaboration continued, right?
00:55:07After that, we had engagement with the PSSC on human rights selection and institutional reform under YB William.
00:55:17Okay.
00:55:17So again, collaboration continued, a series of forums that we had and things like that.
00:55:24We, since, even before the bill was tabled, we had some discussion with the MPs.
00:55:30We, on the day the bill was out, we parked ourselves in parliament in one of the MPs' office.
00:55:37We were briefing them.
00:55:39And then once the PSSC has been set up, we've had some discussion with opposition.
00:55:46We will continue to have discussions with the opposition because we've had a lot of discussion with the PKR parties
00:55:56and MPs and the AP MPs.
00:55:59We will still want to talk to them.
00:56:01Last week, the PSSC called for a meeting with civil society, academia, who were part of the drafting process and
00:56:09outside.
00:56:09They also called for an engagement with the APPGM on integrity, governance and anti-corruption.
00:56:18And, you know, quite a few.
00:56:20And the chair of the media council, former judge, Tan Sri Nalini, right?
00:56:25So there is conversation going.
00:56:27And when, with, to the PSSC, I think our call is start from scratch.
00:56:33Okay.
00:56:34Right?
00:56:34Because the, there's nothing to say.
00:56:38I mean, it's not a bad, like, okay, it's a bad bill.
00:56:41There are some things, as I said, like if you look at CLD, Pinyo provision, the process, the steps are
00:56:48all critical.
00:56:49So enhance what can be enhanced, please ditch everything else that cannot be enhanced and start from scratch.
00:56:56That's our call, right?
00:56:57And we will continue to call out to the PSSC until the next tabling.
00:57:02And I hope it will be tabled.
00:57:04We don't want, you know, for us, every time the government changed, we had to engage with the new minister.
00:57:10Yeah.
00:57:10Right?
00:57:11And it's draining, right?
00:57:12I've got so many other things to do at CIJ.
00:57:15You keep repeating the same thing over and over.
00:57:17So we want this, okay, passed by this government.
00:57:23But again, please don't pass just what, or any other watered-down draft.
00:57:30Because it's not about just having a law, an act.
00:57:35That doesn't give us the freedom of information, right?
00:57:39What gives us freedom of information or right to information is a substantive access.
00:57:48So the question is not whether Malaysia has a law or not.
00:57:51Does Malaysia?
00:57:52No.
00:57:52The question would be, are Malaysians or the public here able to access information?
00:57:58Malaysia, that's the test.
00:58:00The test is not whether checklist we have a law.
00:58:02The test is how substantively good is this law and does it give us genuine access to information
00:58:11held by public authorities and bodies?
00:58:14My God.
00:58:16Okay.
00:58:17I got it.
00:58:18I hope you guys got it.
00:58:20But that sounds extensive.
00:58:23Okay.
00:58:24Is there a chance that this bill would actually just be cast?
00:58:28Out of the fact that it does give the empty freedom element to the empties and politicians.
00:58:34Yeah.
00:58:35And I really hope, not just the viewers here, that we will talk to everyone we know, our
00:58:41family members, why this is important.
00:58:43Did you think, but based on the bill and everything that it hinders, right?
00:58:50And with the behaviors of our politicians for the past decades, is this actually something
00:58:55true for them?
00:58:57This is going to help, right?
00:58:59Because you can now say, hey, we have an act.
00:59:02So, you know, all these naysayers, hush.
00:59:06We've already passed the law.
00:59:07You've asked for a law.
00:59:08I think we need to realize that this works amazingly for the politicians.
00:59:13Yeah.
00:59:13Who wants to keep us quiet.
00:59:15Exactly.
00:59:16And keep us down.
00:59:16I know.
00:59:17You know, I remember a couple of years ago when there was this whole series of new legislation
00:59:22and amendments to existing legislations was happening, especially on the Communications
00:59:27Multimedia Act, the Online Safety Act, and we had some concerns and we took it to some MPs
00:59:37about what were concerns.
00:59:39And one MP who's now currently in the opposition said, actually, it's very good.
00:59:43You know, if it's there, when we come back to power, we'll be able to use it.
00:59:48That's the thing, right?
00:59:51If it's passed in this current form, it is meaningless.
00:59:54And it means that if you're an MP or a government, you know, a civil, somebody working in the
01:00:05civil service, high profile, high ranking officer, if you have anything to hide, this bill will
01:00:13allow you to continue to hide it.
01:00:15Because, but if you are an MP or a Malaysian or a public care...
01:00:24...
01:00:29...
01:00:39...
01:00:40...
01:01:16That would be great if we can collaborate further and look into it and show who does support us and
01:01:25then we can call it out.
01:01:26Exactly. And this is where the public comes in because if you go to CIJ's website on MyRightToKnow, you'll be
01:01:34able to find a link where you can write to your MPs.
01:01:37As a public, if you just convince your MPs to adopt a progressive bill, the MPs must feel the pressure.
01:01:48And only then our report card would really make sense.
01:01:52Okay, so before we end, I'd like to reflect everything here that we've talked about.
01:02:15For me personally, it means when we as public request the government for information held by these public agencies, public
01:02:29authorities and public bodies,
01:02:31the default response and it's in the public interest to not disclose it.
01:02:46Right. It cannot...
01:02:53...all for a freedom of expression that is really close to our heart and that's fundamental.
01:03:01Alright. I hope people have learned a lot because I have learned a lot from this discussion.
01:03:07And I'm quite worried if things don't change for the better as a journalist myself as well because it does
01:03:16have a lot of things to do with information.
01:03:19So, thank you so much for being here, Washla.
01:03:22Thank you. It's a pleasure.
01:03:24Yeah.
01:03:25I hope everybody can comprehend and re-watch multiple times to understand what we have discussed and how important it
01:03:31plays a role in our daily lives.
01:03:35So, you guys, Selamat Hari Merdeka this weekend.
01:03:40Yes. And you know, fahamlah apa erti merdeka kepada kita.
01:03:44Thank you so much. This is Sinar Daily signing out.
01:03:47And don't forget to follow us on all social media platforms.
01:03:50Sinar Daily, MY.
01:03:52Bye guys.
01:03:53Bye.
01:03:54Bye.
01:03:55Okay.
01:04:22Bye.
01:04:24Bye.
01:04:25Bye.
01:04:30Bye.
01:04:55Bye.
01:04:56Bye.
Comments