- 2 months ago
Ten years after the Point Lisas steel plant was shut down, the furnaces could soon roar again.
Government says the reopening represents a major step in economic diversification.
But for the workers who lost their livelihoods in 2016, the question is much bigger:
Will they get a second chance — and has Government learned the lessons of the first shutdown?
We speak with former steel worker and Steel Workers' Union representative Ramkumar Narinesingh.
Government says the reopening represents a major step in economic diversification.
But for the workers who lost their livelihoods in 2016, the question is much bigger:
Will they get a second chance — and has Government learned the lessons of the first shutdown?
We speak with former steel worker and Steel Workers' Union representative Ramkumar Narinesingh.
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NewsTranscript
00:16a very good evening welcome to beyond the headlines for a decade the point lisa steel
00:21plant has stood as one of the most visible reminders of the collapse of a major piece
00:26of trinidad and tobago's manufacturing sector in 2016 oslo metal shut down its operations leaving
00:33hundreds of workers displaced and triggering years of liquidation proceedings and disputes
00:38over severances and other outstanding matters now there's a new chapter the government has signed
00:45an mou with pinnacle steel and vanadium corporation for the refurbishment recommissioning and operation
00:52of the former plant the project is being positioned as a major industrial investment
00:57with steel production and strategic metals including vanadium forming part of the proposed
01:03future but even as government celebrates the prospect of bringing steel making back to life
01:09questions remain what happens to the former workers will they be given priority what lessons have been
01:16learned from oslo mattel and can this new venture deliver sustainable jobs and economic value
01:22without repeating the problems of the past joining us tonight is someone who knows that plant and its
01:28workers from the inside ramkumar narain Singh is a former steel worker he was formerly with the steel
01:34workers union of tnt but has told me he's no longer with them ramkumar welcome to be on the headlines
01:41especially good afternoon so where do we start you worked at the plant from a very young age i
01:47understand yes i did started on a 17 17 when you hear that steel making has finally come back to
01:53point lisa's 10 years after the shutdown what's your immediate reaction well for me it was yeah i don't
02:00have any plans for going back into that industry um i've moved on significantly um but there are a lot
02:07of
02:07people who remain entrenched in the hopes that they're going to get an opportunity to um re-establish
02:16and utilize their skills very unique skills you really can't apply it anywhere else so what have
02:22they been doing during this time well um a lot of people have just been struggling over the last 10
02:29years to figure out what to do how to rebuild a career um and i don't think that a lot
02:35of them were
02:36actually very successful in that so this brings genuine hope right now i do think that is important
02:44you know as we look at what has happened in the past 10 years ago what happened with asylum metal
02:49um that we take that as an opportunity to learn and to grow not just as unions and people workers
02:59but also as a country and at the same time it's important that we do not carry the burden and
03:07the
03:07baggage of the pain and the hurt and the losses into this new opportunity okay i want to go back
03:16a
03:16little bit you said that you know working in the steel plant is a unique skill so it's not just
03:22like a
03:23laborer no it's not absolutely not um tell us about some of those intricacies those specialized jobs
03:30so steel production in itself in essence is a chemical process and um a lot of the people that
03:37worked in that industry learned it by virtue of being exposed to it and practicing it so you came
03:44came out of practice and habit um that is because the the job is it's high risk it's dirty um
03:52it's
03:53extremely hazardous and um they quite laborious so what you have what has happened is that a lot of
04:02people went in there and they learned it just by exposure um the technicalities that are associated
04:08that comes a lot over the years um as it develops as institutional knowledge so you looking at slag i'll
04:15give you an example molten steel molten iron and um the impurities that come out that's called slag a
04:22lot of people use it in the country they spread it on roads they see it as a brittle blue
04:26um it looks
04:28like gravel but it's not you have to know the difference between the color of slag and the color of
04:33steel and
04:33the average person just look at it and see red hot and a skilled person will learn over time just
04:40by
04:40sight how to identify it and that's just one thing you're going to the refactory you're going to the
04:45technicalities associated with high voltage as everybody is aware and that steel plant consumed
04:51about 80 percent of all electricity that was generated by t and tech power gen so what you're looking at
04:58is skill sets that are unique to a steel plant and nowhere else and a lot of people who graduate
05:05from
05:06um universities generally they don't want to go and get involved in that type of environment so it's an
05:16opportunity for a lot of people but you also find that a lot of people who have the academic skill
05:22sets for that job will not directly and easily choose that job it's high risk as i said earlier and
05:28quite hazardous but there are still former workers who view this as good news of course because that
05:35is all they knew people a lot of people for 10 for them 10 years it's like 10 days because
05:43that is what
05:44they knew that is what they knew that's what is ingrained in them so i don't see i i actually
05:51see
05:52this whole thing as being nothing short of the best opportunity for them um and i think that the
05:59uh new entity will really in the end have no choice but to give consideration not because they are forced
06:08not because they are obligated by any law anything but because in reality they will need these people
06:16they're willing skilled laborers i i am certain and it's not even laborer these are technical level
06:22people who just never studied this in school just learned it so with with these jobs and all the risks
06:28that you explained i i'm assuming that it was highly paid right so that's subjective
06:36if you look at what the salaries were in comparison to our minimum wage and trying to bagel
06:42and the average salary you can't say that they were well paid we were well paid if you look at
06:48the
06:48international standards of what the remuneration package should be for persons working in that type of
06:54high-risk environment i mean that becomes debatable the point is we are in trinidad and tobago
07:00and the bottom line is it goes beyond just the salaries over she recently there was a discussion
07:06coming up about the impact of that steel plants closure on our foreign exchange circumstances
07:12in excess of 250 million us dollars lost per year in income and when you look at that for the
07:19country
07:19and we look at that and you look at the last 10 years of issues with foreign exchange it speaks
07:25in
07:25volumes of what the issues are so it extends beyond just the salary brackets so the government is
07:30describing this as a major industrial revival from your experience inside the plant what does it
07:37actually take to make steel production sustainable in tnt so definitely power and that is going to be a
07:44problem we could touch on that first in a minute the next thing is you need gases so apart from
07:50natural
07:50gas if nitrogen if argon you have a number of gases that we would use in the course of that
07:56process
07:57raw materials iron ore and then you have the additives that you would use when you melt iron to add
08:05to make your specialized steel steel is a mixture of different metals right now what do we have in
08:14trinidad and tobago we don't have iron ore we have challenges with natural gas and we no longer have power
08:22gen so how is it rationalized right so what we do have is we have a port that makes it
08:29very convenient
08:30for raw materials to get in and out of the country more specifically to get to the steel plant right
08:35there's joke that we used to tell that you can make a billet and put it on the ship and
08:39it's going to
08:39retain its temperature until it gets to the next country right now there are countries where they are
08:44where they are similar proximity ports but the advantage we have is that we have a port that is
08:50not easily susceptible to natural disasters right very sheltered by which by which of the gulf of
08:57paria it's a natural you know enclosed area and it's so it it prevents the ships from being susceptible to
09:04that we have deep water we have um we have conveyors running directly into the steel plant so you you
09:11you just take iron ore out and it gets in right we are close proximity to south america where there's
09:16a
09:17abundance of iron ore available there's latin american countries so the the logistics presents itself we
09:24have a stable national governance structure we have a skilled workforce and we have structured financial
09:32institutions et cetera et cetera so we have we have internet services in trying to do so we have it
09:38what we don't have well we just saw that um there are some deals coming off the ground with
09:44venezuela apart from that the reality is with a u.s company investing is the possibility for them to
09:50bring in their natural gas right and then finally when it when you talk about power trinidad and tobago is
09:58quickly moving into the alternative energy environment and we have the land mass and we have the private
10:06sector entities that are significantly interested in it so i see all the challenges that was there 10
10:12that were there 10 years ago as the opportunity for alleviation exists so i do i think that it's prime
10:20time so
10:20you you did see you know back in arsenal metal these the steel plant was a high energy consumption
10:27industry 16 years later is it still or are there methods now that has made it more efficient when it
10:35comes to
10:36it i i i am of the view that there are methods now uh with the new type of electric
10:41arc furnaces that are existing
10:43they have found ways to minimize um they've identified ways to minimize energy consumption
10:49they found ways to also minimize and oh so this is important the this company is focusing on vanadium
10:58steel the whole country is aware of that and the whole world it's been widely announced and that makes
11:03it unique the previous plant and its incarnation we ran a lot of different grades and that has a significant
11:10amount of way and tear in the infrastructure you're changing grades and you have to use it so different
11:15with the same infrastructure rapid um deterioration when you have a specific grade or you're focusing on a specific
11:22range of grades you could tailor your infrastructure to meet that and it's more controlled and the process flow
11:29becomes more controlled so i think that the the um the entire process is going to be a little more
11:35efficient
11:36and then there's a different standard of management there's a different structure as long metal was
11:41a significant group and there were a lot of things happening in the background including how they
11:46handled their debt as a company that caused the failure of that business but that's what it is
11:51we'll come to that we'll come to that so i'm going to talk about the power generation so when we
11:56were
11:56talking we had a discussion recently about the data centers we were told that most data centers
12:01internationally they come with their own power generation plans um uh green energy etc right
12:07is it the same for the possibility exists for this and 10 years ago we just depended on power gen
12:14and
12:15everybody was a little bit lazy i have to say even the private sector they were a little bit lazy
12:18in
12:19terms of looking at innovative ways to generate power tntech was it right so i think with this happening now
12:26and the fact that there is um you don't have a choice you have to look at the alternative energy
12:33i think that the live and drive down production costs to some extent it will absolutely work for
12:39the investors yeah solar power is the future right so let me ask this proposal is coming from a different
12:44operator different business model as you explained what are the biggest differences you see between
12:51what was under arsenal metal and what is now being proposed well in the first instance i think the
12:57management structure the opportunity for uh an innovative and progressive approach exists um secondly
13:07um i think even the trade union fraternity um the perspective on how you coordinate and you manage
13:16your membership and the expectations and the engagement with the employer the opportunity
13:24for that to develop and to become more aligned presents itself so i'm glad you mentioned the trade union
13:32movement i i know you're probably still a little close to them you still probably talk to a lot of
13:37the
13:37workers but one of the major concerns coming from the union is consultation they say that they were not
13:43consulted they criticized government for not engaging with the swutt why is that consultation important
13:51is it i mean was it necessary right so was there any obligation so this this is having spent the
14:01last
14:0110 years in the private sector corporate world i've learned a lot in comparison to where i was 10 years
14:08ago
14:08my appreciation for how business management is supposed to exist and how it's supposed to accommodate
14:16workers involvement in the end decision process for business so the outcome decision has changed significantly
14:23what i have you very feisty as above the union and advocate and so on after saying and of course
14:29i i i
14:30represented the in the feelings and emotions and views and i think even now the steel workers union's
14:37executive executive continues to do that and and that is their role and function right now here's the
14:43thing at the end of the day in the prime minister is actually quite right and quite in line with
14:50where
14:50her role is when she's indicated that she cannot get involved in this private sector entity the mou signed by
14:57the government is simply the government's um extension of an endorsement for supporting a private sector
15:04enterprise that's coming the reality is that as it stands now the union does not have an entitlement or
15:13right to that consultation and i as far as i understand i don't know what the interpretation is
15:17my interpretation is that the union has just in good faith extended an expectation that they should
15:25have been engaged but the reality is that regardless of how anybody feels about this that union will have
15:32a legal right in the long term because the application process of successorship exists in law just like
15:40petrotrain as you would remember it doesn't exist because the state workers union they were debating and
15:46they were they were begging for the legislation to be passed i think in the upper house and ascended to
15:51ascended to something else so separate things there so you're talking about the our retrenchments and
15:56severance benefits um being um amended to now address situations where companies choose to close
16:05and try as a means of trying to avoid paying workers for their years of service right and the government
16:11has done it this government i should say has done it um delivered on something that should have happened
16:18years ago right but the union successorship um which is separate so representation always exists so the
16:27recognition the recognition board and the process that is associated with a union's recognition certificate
16:34that is where a union now just like what i'm sure you're aware petrotrain recently the the owtu succeeded in
16:41getting uh um successorship for representing the workers with the new entities that became the
16:47incarnation of petrotrain it's the same this is has existed forever so steel workers union regardless
16:53of who run that plant and when they run that plan and how they run that plant the truth is
16:58they're
16:58going to have that entitlement in law and they go through the process and they're going to get it
17:03so it's just a matter of time before they become involved so 45 of the workers affected according to
17:11nattock um affected by the closure that would include 644 former permanent employees they've expect
17:18expressed interest in retaining do you believe the new operator should give them first preference ah so
17:26the reality is that like i said the new operator may not have a choice but to give consideration first
17:34preference then you see if we go down that road i don't have that i don't have any belief in
17:39that regard
17:39and i'll tell you why the point of it the point of it is that any business entity has an
17:45absolute
17:45right to decide who they hire right and for me it makes sense for them to give consideration first
17:52preference that's going to be up to whoever manages that company do you believe tnt should be trying to
17:57rebuild the workforce that existed before should we just accept that this will be a smaller more
18:03technologically advanced operation requiring a different type of worker um in reality apart from
18:10that 644 workers by virtue of the sub services that extended that plant benefited about 20 000 people
18:17in that general centralized area and beyond environments so we are so from where i sit based
18:24on what is needed to run a steel plant the facilities the support services etc etc reasonably we can expect
18:32in
18:32excess of 10 000 people what would success look like for you in five years from now is it just
18:39simply steel being produced again or is there a bigger benchmark success for this country let me tell you
18:46the minute they turn that furnace on this entire country is going to start to benefit from the power
18:53the utilities the support services all the way to the eventuality eventuality of the export right so
19:01success to me means that by the end of 2027 if they deal if what they have announced materializes we're
19:11going to see a significant boom not just in employment but in everything else foreign exchange as you
19:18absolutely so i think this is the most viable opportunity for this country to sub from an industrial
19:25standpoint for this country to finally for former steel workers watching tonight many of whom lost
19:32a major part of their working lives when arsenal metal closed what would you say to them now well i
19:38for the
19:39persons who are hoping to return to that plant i think that they should now start to invest in introspection
19:48and develop themselves in that direction but i i would be cautious for anybody who's planning i would
19:56be cautious i would take an approach of waiting to see what happens over the next six months
20:03so 30 seconds tell us a little bit i mean you already indicated you're not interested in in going back
20:08to work any steel plan what has your you have one of the success stories of that closure 30 seconds
20:14yeah
20:14yeah give us give us your story in summary what i did is that i changed my mindset i understood
20:20in the
20:21end that regardless of what you do if the business feels everybody loses so my my attitude now is not
20:31to to to meet the expectation of a business owner or an employee but rather in the end based on
20:37what
20:37they're looking for how does this support the sustainability of a business and that is the simplicity of
20:45how i have become successful in everything that i do all the advice that i give all the guidance
20:50or the support that i engage in with businesses that is that is my goal so in even supporting people
20:58who are moving in that direction towards that seed plant the advice is just simply that thank you very
21:03much well the return of steel making to point this is being presented as much more than the reopening of
21:09a
21:10plant it's being sold as a chance to revive heavy manufacturing create jobs and diversify an economy
21:16still heavily dependent on energy but for workers who live through the 2016 shutdown there is another
21:23measure of success whether this time the people who built the trinidad and tobago steel industry
21:29are part of its future ramkumar namarin singh former steel worker and former workers union
21:35representative thank you so much for joining us on beyond headlines sharing your time
21:38and expertise we now go to a short break this show we'll be right back
21:43you