Alex Freberg and Ben Rogojan Livestream | Everything Data Analytics and Data Engineering - video Dailymotion

Alex The Analyst

Come listen to Ben and I talk about all things Data!  We will discuss Work-Life Balance, Career Progression, Engineering vs Analytics, and probably some more things.  Be sure to Follow Ben here on YouTube!   YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/SeattleDataGuy LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/benjaminrogojan/  Link for DEML Conference - http://www.demlsummit.com/signup  ____________________________________________   RESOURCES:  💻Analyst Builder - https://www.analystbuilder.com/  📖Take my Full MySQL Course Here: https://bit.ly/3tqOipr 📖Take my Full Python Course Here: https://bit.ly/48O581R 📖Practice Technical Interview Questions: https://bit.ly/46pDqqL  Coursera Courses: Google Data Analyst Certification: https://coursera.pxf.io/5bBd62 Data Analysis with Python - https://coursera.pxf.io/BXY3Wy IBM Data Analysis Specialization - https://coursera.pxf.io/AoYOdR Tableau Data Visualization - https://coursera.pxf.io/MXYqaN  Udemy Courses: Python for Data Science - https://bit.ly/3Z4A5K6 Statistics for Data Science - https://bit.ly/37jqDbq SQL for Data Analysts (SSMS) - https://bit.ly/3fkqEij Tableau A-Z - http://bit.ly/385lYvN  *Please note I may earn a small commission for any pur

Transcript

00:00:01all right it says we're live i'm gonna wait till it shows up on the screen hey everybody

00:00:04um if you're joining thanks for being here uh give me a second because i i just am super

00:00:09paranoid of it not um not actually going live usually i know that feeling what's that i know

00:00:17that feeling where you're like yeah we'll have we'll have an hour discussion and then it's like

00:00:21oh we never started the stream all right give me a sec it still hasn't shown up on the side

00:00:27that's why that's why i'm always super paranoid because it's very possible

00:00:31that i'm doing something wrong in fact let me go over here let me go to my live ah no

00:00:38i see us

00:00:40you see us live yeah oh there we are see this is why i can't trust technology because i this

00:00:48whole

00:00:49time i thought it wasn't going to work um hey everybody uh this is benjamin ergogen if you

00:00:56don't know who he is because this is on my youtube channel but if you don't know who ben is

00:00:59he's

00:01:00better known as seattle data guy on youtube i have all this information down below in the description

00:01:04go check him out fantastic data engineering content uh really really good stuff i've learned stuff from

00:01:10your channel i don't know if you need this but i watch your stuff um especially back this is like

00:01:14two years ago i was really interested in some data engineering stuff and i watched it and i learned a

00:01:19lot so if you want to be smart like me you just go watch this channel um this is going

00:01:26to be super

00:01:26chill we are just going to be chatting about uh some data topics the conversation is going to go

00:01:33any which way um this kind of uh just happened naturally we just got on calls every so often and

00:01:42we're chatting and every time after the chat we were like man that was a good conversation we should

00:01:47do that where other people can listen because it's you know we just chat about random stuff

00:01:51and so i threw up some random topics that we had just kind of thought about uh doing um in

00:01:57the

00:01:57thumbnail but honestly it could be uh we could talk about anything i'm not sure exactly where it's going

00:02:02to go yes did you want to say hi to everybody before we get going yeah hey everyone thanks so

00:02:07much

00:02:07for having me on the the show alex i appreciate it i'm excited to chat um we'll kind of see

00:02:13where this

00:02:13goes i like how you said the show this is like the lowest budget show of all time yeah i

00:02:20mean like

00:02:20uh everyone kind of calls like when i when i do my lives they're like oh it's like a podcast

00:02:24or

00:02:24something i'm like well it's just a chat like i i i don't have i should probably convert everything

00:02:29into some sort of audio form so that more people can listen but it really is just a chat so

00:02:34yeah people

00:02:34have been bugging me to do that for a long time too and i just i have zero drive or

00:02:39um yeah motivation

00:02:40to do so if anyone wants a good startup idea um that would be amazing if you could just like

00:02:46if i could click a button and create all my stuff into podcast and then it automatically has like

00:02:51intro and outro music and then uses ai to like do a little intro that's got to be out there

00:02:56somewhere

00:02:57someone's done that if anyone knows what that is someone's done that i see people in the chat coming

00:03:03in hey everybody this isn't gonna be crazy so like normally during my live streams i'm pretty

00:03:08interactive with the chat there may be times if we want to uh chat with the chat or i might

00:03:13you know

00:03:13i like reading the chat but um this is gonna be more just like me and you chatting i'm guessing

00:03:19so

00:03:19uh hey everybody in the chat thanks for joining i see you guys be from all over the world bangladesh

00:03:25i want to go to bangladesh sounds awesome

00:03:29so uh direction of our live stream or this chat is really just data things um what did i put

00:03:36in the

00:03:37thumbnail but work-life balance i think is first and then career progression and then data engineering

00:03:42versus data analytics yeah that's a good one the reason i put work-life balance is because we

00:03:46literally were just chatting about this uh the other day about uh when we were just on a call is

00:03:51how crazy uh our lives have gotten um just as things progress and as we start our own businesses

00:03:57and uh do youtube and all sorts of things and you of course i probably have had more things change

00:04:04recently than i have uh because you're you got all sorts of things going on so uh yeah i would

00:04:10say

00:04:10that we both have uh different experiences when it comes to work-life balance but i'm curious to

00:04:18know more about uh because i didn't i think i talked more than you just because i had so many

00:04:23kids

00:04:23uh i talked more than you did so i actually still need to know more about uh how you do

00:04:28it all because

00:04:28i know you do a lot yeah i mean i'll always be impressed with with you because again you have

00:04:33like i think three kids or something of that range we could have we're we might have another we might

00:04:40not you know it just depends we'll see but it could be four yeah now when you say that do

00:04:45you mean you

00:04:45might have a fourth and you just don't remember if you have a fourth or do you mean like you

00:04:49just

00:04:51no no no we have three currently we might have another we're not sure yet i'm not i didn't lose

00:04:57one i promise yeah no i think for me work-life balance has been a little bit easier you know

00:05:01like you said i recently got married so that that's you know it adds new new things to it where

00:05:07you just

00:05:07have another person that you care about and and want to do things with um because before it was just

00:05:12like oh do i want to stay up until midnight to do work sure like why not right and then

00:05:18now it's a

00:05:19little different where it's like well someone might not enjoy that if i do that every night

00:05:23like maybe i can get away with that occasionally but you know you gotta you have someone else that

00:05:27you want to spend time with and do things with and uh works not the only thing i think that's

00:05:32the

00:05:32other thing is i've recently really tried to force myself to try to think about other things than

00:05:38work um even when like i'm talking to people where it's like i'm trying to avoid the first question

00:05:43being what do you do um right i feel like it's i don't know if it's an american thing or

00:05:48it's just a world thing it is it is an american thing but um i i that's pretty common around

00:05:56the

00:05:56world it's like you know what do you do who are you and what do you do that's like the

00:05:59first thing

00:06:00people ask yeah yeah so so trying to like talk about other things obviously picking up new hobbies

00:06:06outside of it but some of that's also because i think i have a house now so it's like oh

00:06:09suddenly i

00:06:10i have i'm a little i feel a little more settled so i can be like i'm gonna grow tomatoes

00:06:14and that's

00:06:15really fun um they're wrong i like doing data stuff but it's also really fun to see the work

00:06:19of your hands uh actually produce something uh and my wife is currently sick of tomatoes because i

00:06:24thought i didn't realize that like four tomato plants would produce so many tomatoes you have to

00:06:30see the great thing about having a garden though and because we have a big garden at our house

00:06:34is that it forces you to get to know your neighbors because you start having so many tomatoes for

00:06:39example that you're like i just need to give this to anyone like i'm gonna go knock on my

00:06:42neighbor's door and give them tomatoes and we we've met a lot of our neighbors that way because

00:06:47other people in our neighborhood garden and so it's a it's a it is a social it is a isolated

00:06:53thing

00:06:54when you're doing it but then once you get the fruits it's becomes a very social thing yeah yeah so

00:06:59yeah i think i've always been trying to find find new things and in terms of like actual work-life

00:07:03balance i've gotten better over the years i think when i was i was younger i was really bad like

00:07:09it

00:07:09was like work was the only thing especially like first first jobs i had was like working in fine

00:07:14dining and so one it's those are just time-consuming jobs because you're working from like noon till

00:07:21midnight if not later and then i i never i've never like for a long time i never had just

00:07:25one job

00:07:26um like uh i worked at one restaurant and then one of the chefs grew microgreens in their garage which

00:07:32are just like fancy little things you garnish things with and so i would like deliver them for him

00:07:37like before i started like my actual job uh like two or three times a week or i remember there

00:07:42was

00:07:42actually some um days i worked more than 24 hours because i would like work one restaurant for for

00:07:49like working pastry and then i'd go to the next one maybe slip sleep 40 minutes my car and then

00:07:54go to

00:07:55another one yeah and work until like four in the morning um just yeah it was it was long days

00:08:02but

00:08:03and then when i eventually got um working in tech i started working one job but then i somehow started

00:08:10consulting so then some again now i'm like okay i work 40 hours and then add in another like 20

00:08:16uh eventually started writing a lot as well and uh you know do youtube and suddenly you're like okay

00:08:21how am i doing like 68 hours a week again yeah you're like i i was trying not to do

00:08:28this and then

00:08:29it just creeps back in on you every every time it's like this interesting like creep that that comes

00:08:34back um and then like i i think i ebb and flow like i'll like get really crazy um like

00:08:39when before i

00:08:41quit facebook i like got to this point where i was like sleeping four hours a night um and i

00:08:46just i just

00:08:46would like i got sick like i would just get sick because you're just like not sleeping and

00:08:51yeah no definitely definitely definitely took a lot of effort for me to learn like i need to chill

00:08:55occasionally um you know you can you can only work so long you only like working so long and

00:09:01eventually nothing gets done anyways you're just like no doing anything do you feel like you work

00:09:05less now that you're married or did you work do you work the same as before um i think the

00:09:12i'm trying

00:09:12to think let's see i probably work about the same maybe a little less um which is good right like

00:09:19my my wife helps me occasionally unwind and do other things it's one of those things where

00:09:24sometimes i still do it initially begrudgingly um like i'll like oh we gotta go do this like fun

00:09:29event and like but i have all this work to do i know right like oh man that's so terrible

00:09:33and you

00:09:34go do it and you're like that was great like and now i actually feel better um and feel more

00:09:38rested

00:09:39and feel more capable whereas if you just try to pound that extra two four hours of work like

00:09:45maybe you get nowhere um anyways so yeah yeah that's that is fair i think after uh well i wasn't

00:09:53i wasn't in anything tech related until i got married and so i don't really have a before and

00:09:58after i mostly i my work-life balance before i was married was like i'd go to work i'd come

00:10:04home

00:10:04i'd get wendy's on the way home and i'd go to the gym and then i'd play video games and

00:10:09watch youtube

00:10:10like that was my it was like the most relaxing classic right out of college schedule you've ever

00:10:16seen but now you know i got three kids and two dogs and two cats but some of which are

00:10:23trying to

00:10:23get in right now um and so my schedule is like it has not ever gotten less than when i

00:10:31first got

00:10:32married it's only increased and so uh i recently posted on linkedin about my schedule and people were

00:10:38people was a few people were like well alex do you have time for hobbies do you have time for

00:10:44working out you have time for these things i was like yeah i do i have time for those things

00:10:48i was

00:10:49like i just uh i just don't do them as often so like my typical day this is almost every

00:10:56single

00:10:56like this is today but almost every single day i get up at 6 30 i make my kids breakfast

00:11:03i make my

00:11:04kids lunches for the day i empty the dishwasher let the dogs out like that's my part my wife does

00:11:09other things and then the kids go off to school at 7 30 and now i work it's like i'll

00:11:14be working

00:11:14until what is it 10 o'clock eastern stand time i'll work until about three o'clock and then that's

00:11:21a

00:11:21solid eight hours right let me see how many hours is that why is my math wrong are you saying

00:11:26from 10

00:11:27or when do you start 10 or no like 7 i usually start like 7 to 7 30 somewhere in

00:11:32there so it's

00:11:32seven that's five hours it's about eight hours so i usually do about eight hours in the morning

00:11:38and then my kids come home and we have dinner and we go to the pool and we play in

00:11:42the backyard and

00:11:43play you know board games and whatnot until about eight until everyone's in bed when i work from like

00:11:488 to 11 30 so i do about 11 11 hours ish on average during the work day on the

00:11:55during the weekday

00:11:56um but i still have like five hours six hours with my family so like i don't feel i feel

00:12:01like

00:12:01i have a pretty good work-life balance i the the kicker with all that is i work from home

00:12:06yeah yeah

00:12:07and i have a wife who takes my kids to school and picks them up from school so like i

00:12:11have a i have a

00:12:11a small advantage in the fact that i don't have to commute anywhere i just do my morning stuff and

00:12:17walk upstairs and here i am in my office and i can work and so it's um a lot of

00:12:22people lose a lot of

00:12:23time going to the office and that's not something i miss i hated going into the office it was like

00:12:28especially when i lived out in dallas it was horrible and i lived up in plano for a long time

00:12:34and plano the drive into into downtown dallas where i worked was like you know 45 minutes to get there

00:12:40but then like an hour 15 to get home so that's two hours every single day where i wouldn't can't

00:12:44work

00:12:44yeah yeah yeah you know so that's my like current that's my like current schedule and i've been doing

00:12:49that for about four years yeah yeah so i've been doing that for a long time and i and i

00:12:57think that

00:12:58the big thing for you is like you you clearly stay focused um i think um to some degree like

00:13:04to me it's

00:13:05like based on output you clearly have like a goal i think that's the biggest thing is like it it

00:13:08helps

00:13:09to have like clear things you want to get done um i'm trying to get to this point where like

00:13:14i really

00:13:14just try to get myself to like focus on maybe like one to two big things that i want to

00:13:18get done in a

00:13:18day and then almost giving yourself not the rest of the day off but like the rest of the day

00:13:23to

00:13:24breathe because i think sometimes if you like don't have a clear goal for the day you will finish maybe

00:13:30two big things but you will feel like you still need to get more done uh and then you'll do

00:13:34nothing

00:13:34for like two hours because you're like i need to do more and somehow you just end up either

00:13:37clicking through tabs or doing doing nothing for those few hours um also i like that you brought up

00:13:44yes okay good we're all we're all a little human absolutely yes um the the commute thing really

00:13:51hits because i remember my first job when i worked as like a data analyst at a healthcare company it

00:13:56was it was in i was in like i want to say i was either living in edmunds uh in

00:14:02in washington and i was

00:14:04driving down to renton which is across seattle so you have to get past downtown and it's like another

00:14:1020 minutes so yeah like any anytime you got to go past anyone's downtown it's it's it's a nightmare

00:14:15so it could easily be like an hour and some one way an hour and some the other way and

00:14:19so

00:14:19you know in a week you'd be putting just 10 plus hours just driving and you're just like

00:14:25i am not enjoying myself and when i worked for facebook i remember like i specifically found a

00:14:29place that was one mile away because i'm like i just want to be so close that like i i

00:14:33don't have to

00:14:34like deal with that um and i have and they had a bus but i just would drive in because

00:14:38i'm just like

00:14:38it's just so nice to be so close so you were you were a data analyst then you transitioned to

00:14:44data engineering and i never made that leap myself i stayed in data analytics why'd you change to

00:14:51data engineering yeah um just cooler like all the cool kids are doing it no no at the time i

00:14:57think

00:14:57everyone wanted to be a data scientist i think i wanted to do i think i know i wanted to

00:15:01be more of a

00:15:02data scientist initially like i i had in college um you know started learning programming eventually

00:15:08took an epidemiology course and like part of me is like how do i kind of start mixing this stuff

00:15:12together um i think i eventually found an article about um you know data science probably the harvard

00:15:18article and i was like okay let's like try this uh so i started doing like yeah so i started

00:15:24doing

00:15:25bioinformatics courses and some other courses that were like really focused on

00:15:29some combination of data science right like there was no clear uh data science route that back then

00:15:34there was no masters in data science um so yeah i just kind of try to push myself into that

00:15:39direction

00:15:40uh and even when i worked my first job like i was really like i always kind of pushed to

00:15:44be like

00:15:44hey like there's a data science team that you just started can i like figure out like do they

00:15:48need someone can i help can i do anything there like i'll you know what what can i do um

00:15:52so i got

00:15:52to like do some small projects with them as well and i think i just found that i like liked

00:15:57building

00:15:57things that are more solid ash and i think that's what a lot of people will tell you is like

00:16:01they like

00:16:03building you know something that's more permanent than like often just an analysis yeah right um which

00:16:09you know a lot of people that i've talked to that are on the data science side depending where um

00:16:12tend

00:16:13to do more of analysis that never ends and keeps going and keeps going and so that i kind of

00:16:18fell

00:16:18into it i remember when the first time i got a data engineering role i wasn't even trying i was

00:16:22just like i don't know what job i have like what skills i have or i know what skills i

00:16:27have i don't

00:16:27know what job i should do so just putting in the skills in indeed i'm like i have sequel i

00:16:33have you

00:16:34know python java i've got these skills like what does that mean right so eventually i kind of found

00:16:40that oh data engineer exists okay let's try that yeah back in the day we didn't have we couldn't just

00:16:46ask chat gbt what should i do with my life uh which now just go do that just say hey

00:16:51what what ai what

00:16:51should i do with my life and they'll tell you and then you just do it um that's our future

00:16:55back in

00:16:56the day you had to plug it in and they would just do some like really low grade if then

00:17:00statements

00:17:02if sequel then these options if java then this um that's really interesting that is really interesting

00:17:09i i didn't do that myself like i didn't um i kind of accidentally got into data analytics at the

00:17:15beginning but when i started working alongside a lot of data scientists a lot of data engineers i

00:17:20was still really interested in um data analytics i was for a small period of time considering data

00:17:29engineering because i started making friends with a lot of the software uh or it's not software

00:17:34engineers um database developers and um a lot of our data engineers and data architects because i

00:17:40started i was on a data collection team and i was like hey i like this data collection stuff

00:17:45uh because it was you know somewhat new to me and so i was like maybe i could do that

00:17:48but uh

00:17:50wasn't i didn't really commit hard to it i just kept learning and you know i i i love the

00:17:55um like

00:17:56you said i worked on a data science team so that's like what technically we were we were a data

00:18:01science

00:18:01team and my boss's boss was our director of data science and uh the data scientists i would when i

00:18:08would work with them i would always like be like but how did you get this number and they're like

00:18:12well we created this machine learning model and here's what the output was and i was like but why

00:18:18did you get the number well based off all these factors i was like but could you pinpoint why this

00:18:23number is here like could you go back and figure it out and they're like well you know it's kind

00:18:27of uh

00:18:28kind of and so like you said i i also never really gravitated toward data science because i didn't like

00:18:34the there was a level of uncertainty and lack of uh solidity in my mind at least and so uh

00:18:41i just

00:18:42never really gravitated towards it and so the data analytics and the data engineering stuff i've always

00:18:46like been super into um and you know my company at least the the data engineers and the database

00:18:56developers is a lot of the people i worked with they you know they were really smart i was like

00:19:01i want

00:19:01to be smart like them i was like you guys really know what you're talking about i really respect like

00:19:06your thought process and methodology behind those things and so yeah it's just really interesting how

00:19:11how people get to where they are i've met so many people even like you just like who had a

00:19:16different

00:19:16job or whatnot and they're like hey i just i'm really interested in this kind of stuff and then you

00:19:22start taking some courses and then you get good at it and you can transition within your either

00:19:27company or you know at another company by changing your resume with some new skills

00:19:33yes yes that's often those are those are often some of the moves and then i mean then it's just

00:19:38about doing the interview well and uh you know showing that you can do it but i do think like

00:19:42one

00:19:42of the things i've noticed is like you do have to like push for it often is what i've what

00:19:46i've seen

00:19:46like you if you just wait and hope that something is going to change it's not like that's you there

00:19:55is

00:19:55obviously like something like oh yeah we fell into it but like it was more than that right like it's

00:19:59like well it didn't fall into it like there was some direction like of like well i i again i

00:20:04asked

00:20:05like i was constantly like bugging my director i'm like i really want to try this can i try this

00:20:09look i finished all my work can i try this yes let me tell you something i i 100 agree

00:20:15with you have

00:20:15to almost be like a little bit shameless um in the fact that no one's gonna just come and ask

00:20:22you

00:20:22hey alex do you want to do a data engineering and you're like yeah i'd love to do that most

00:20:27of the

00:20:27time it's you pushing to learn a new skill and then going and like making it known to people who

00:20:32may have influence in that area that you want to do it until they give you a shot um that

00:20:37is like

00:20:38as 100 been my experience and a experience of a lot of other people i've talked to yeah yeah i

00:20:44mean

00:20:44i had someone at facebook who did that where like she would bug me and she'd be like hey can

00:20:47you

00:20:47help me like data engineering like i want to do data engineering like okay like okay let me look

00:20:51through your pipeline i don't have time but let me let me help you like let me like you know

00:20:55people

00:20:55have done this for me let me try to like help you figure this out and see if there's things

00:20:59i can do

00:20:59for you to to make it easier for this transition so yeah well to even speak on the other side

00:21:04when i

00:21:05was a manager one of my uh one of the people on my team she was a business analyst but

00:21:10she wanted to

00:21:10be a bi developer and i was like well you know we have consultants who kind of do that work

00:21:15maybe not

00:21:16right now but she kept asking me and she's like oh well you know i actually in my free time

00:21:20built this which is you know really business relevant i was like oh this is really helpful

00:21:24i was like you're really serious about doing this bi developer and so uh that i was a manager for

00:21:31like

00:21:32of her for a little over a year and by the end of it i got her promoted to a

00:21:37bi developer i have to go

00:21:38when you're working at a big company like like i was you there's so much red tape yeah i had

00:21:44to prove

00:21:44that she had certain certifications that she had the relevant skills that she had done certain

00:21:49projects and then i had to write like formal writing write up the business proposition of

00:21:54transitioning true bi developer like all these things it was really tough it was really annoying

00:21:58i did not enjoy it but all that being said from a manager's perspective she was really i could tell

00:22:03she was really serious about it and she was skilled and she was progressing in knowledge and so you know

00:22:09all those things combined i was like she could do a good job and so i gave her a chance

00:22:12and now she's

00:22:13a bi developer and so you know that's on the other side of things but i did the same thing

00:22:17when i was a

00:22:18data analyst um i was like you know put me on that project put me on that team i really

00:22:23want to do that

00:22:23work and often if they value you as a person or like they know that you're valuable and they want

00:22:28to keep you they'll try to get you into those things if you have a good manager or if you

00:22:32like

00:22:32are close with you you know you have a good relationship yeah there's always like like talking

00:22:36about the luck factor there is always some aspect of like yeah do you have a good manager do you

00:22:40have

00:22:40good relationship with them um that's always gonna play a role because yeah one bad manager who's

00:22:45like doesn't want you to leave right like like oh you do a great job what you're where you're at

00:22:49i don't want to have to find a new person no you don't need to do that exactly well and

00:22:54that's what

00:22:55i was gonna say is like the manager piece is actually more important than uh probably a lot of other

00:23:00factors even i mean but your self-motivation is probably like 60 of it and then the 40 is kind

00:23:06of

00:23:06outside your controls like do you have a good manager are you within the team or um are they willing

00:23:11to give you some opportunities outside of that um and that kind of is again just right place right

00:23:18time and if it isn't happening like you've been there for like you know been trying to do that for

00:23:22like a year and you're like i'm not getting anywhere here well then it's hard to if you don't already

00:23:26have the experience to transition so again it's just like sometimes you have to get lucky um and just

00:23:31kind of hope you have a good well not hope but you can try your best to have a good

00:23:36relationship with

00:23:36your manager and with your team and whatnot kind of make those things happen but it does not usually

00:23:42just happen you know like we were saying earlier it doesn't just happen by itself usually it's a lot

00:23:47of work usually a lot of work a lot of trying to just put yourself out there but yeah i

00:23:53think last

00:23:53conversation we had or and this is what i think inspired one of your posts you were talking about

00:23:57how being a manager was maybe not the thing you wanted to do yeah oh yeah you're 100 right when

00:24:04after we got off that call i literally went into my like notes where i i kind of like write

00:24:09ideas

00:24:09down for posts when i have them because i and i have one on my phone and i went there

00:24:12and i literally

00:24:13wrote up the whole that whole post and that was that was one of my best posts in the a

00:24:17while it got

00:24:18it did really well and i think people just really resonate with it because you're told everyone this is

00:24:24me this has been me since i've been in tech every everyone is told i want to say everyone the

00:24:30vast

00:24:31majority of people are told that when you get into whatever role that you work your way up to be

00:24:35a

00:24:36manager that's just the career progression you're supposed to have because then you become a manager

00:24:40you become a director senior director cto etc and i went that path and i went to the manager and

00:24:50i

00:24:50progressed my career very quickly and in hindsight it was a very big mistake like i really wish i hadn't

00:24:58done that like i really wish i hadn't taken that manager role in hindsight of course it was more

00:25:02money is a better title more career progression in the long run so it when i was making the decision

00:25:08makes perfect sense but now looking back i'm like i really wish i hadn't taken that role um simply

00:25:13because i learned and i realized that um i like working with people i don't like managing people

00:25:20um and it's very very very different um than what my expectations were it was a lot more paperwork

00:25:28a lot more interviewing a lot more budget meetings um high level stuff where i never really got to see

00:25:34code or write code in any way uh for like a year so i was only living off of like

00:25:39my side projects at

00:25:40the time um in terms of like fulfilling that i it just grew over the years of like i need

00:25:46to build

00:25:47something like i need to be writing some sequel i need to be digging into data like it just it

00:25:51became

00:25:51like second nature and i like really was almost like in a withdrawal and eventually quit because of

00:25:56it because i was like i need to be building i need to be digging into something i need to

00:26:00be doing

00:26:00something um that you know i couldn't get as a manager and so i really really really missed it

00:26:08and so i'm glad uh now i can kind of build and do whatever i want kind of as a

00:26:13freelancer consultant or

00:26:16you know whatever i feel like i want to do i can do that instead of just having to manage

00:26:22all day

00:26:22which i don't miss it yeah i think that's the the hard thing like you said like you're told that's

00:26:32the right path um because again you know we we have this desire to continue progressing um especially

00:26:38like after college right like you're like okay like i you know wonder junior senior um now i've done

00:26:44analytics okay what's after junior every case mid senior okay now what's next um at some companies

00:26:50right like in a lot of big tech they try to make it so that like individual contributors have a

00:26:54path

00:26:54to grow and get paid more because i think that's the other thing is like well i want to make

00:26:58more

00:26:58money um and it's like well if the only option is to be manager i'll try that but i think

00:27:03yeah it's

00:27:03like if you are someone that likes doing it is going to be something that um yeah it's going to

00:27:08not

00:27:08be that um they often say like you need to try to be technical when you're a manager but depending

00:27:13on what company you're at it's really hard because you have all this bureaucracy that like you said

00:27:17just to get someone promoted you have to spend all this time uh and effort to to kind of do

00:27:22that and

00:27:22then it's like okay well when do i have time to to write sequel or or do anything and is

00:27:27it even

00:27:27valuable for me to do that so yeah yeah i mean you give me flashbacks of give me bad flashbacks

00:27:36i'm not

00:27:36enjoying this it really was like just a that was a long year it was a long year i don't

00:27:42miss it um

00:27:43but like you said that was the main contributing factor is i wanted to make more money um just to

00:27:48be completely transparent i i was the sole income earner in my family um and i got three kids and

00:27:56i was

00:27:56like i need more money yeah i don't know i don't know what else to tell you i you know

00:28:00it's uh expensive

00:28:01the world is very expensive um and with three mouths to feed besides me and my wives i'm not wives

00:28:10i hope christine's not listening to this i swear it's just you baby um but it it absolutely is like

00:28:17one of the main factors is like if you want to progress if you want to make more money you

00:28:20got to

00:28:20become a manager yeah and so in tech though i've i've never worked in big tech but um in a

00:28:27lot of

00:28:27tech like you said they usually have roles for individual contributors whereas uh it's smaller

00:28:32companies or not as techie companies they usually do not have that at all it's literally it stops at

00:28:38senior and you can stay in senior and get a three percent bonus five maybe five percent if you're lucky

00:28:43for the next 10 years um but you can't really progress farther than that as an individual

00:28:48contributor um and so yeah that's that's definitely uh definitely part of the big reason why i was like

00:28:57i i just i don't think i want to go up to a director and do more of this and

00:29:02it make it worse yeah yeah

00:29:04because at that point then you're managing managers uh and it's like how are you guys managing your

00:29:09people like how is that going do you need help managing people who are managing projects um yeah it

00:29:16gets it gets very meta um i think and that's probably maybe one reason is that one reason you

00:29:21kind of like being your own boss because now your income is somewhat not infinite obviously but like

00:29:28it's not it is no it's been on the next job bezos no it's just like i always found this

00:29:35i think this

00:29:36was what i found frustrating about more traditional companies is like if you were in tech it probably

00:29:40capped somewhere around like 150 to 200k which obviously is a ton of money but like again if you've got

00:29:45three kids and you're the sole breadwinner um it's hard like that's still a hard hard number um to be

00:29:52limited to yeah yeah i would say um when you're first starting out like when most people who are

00:29:59starting out in analytics are don't have a family and aren't 20 years into their career most people

00:30:05they're either out of college or they're early on in their career trying to switch careers because

00:30:08they realize they really like data and so when i was early on in my career 63 000 at a

00:30:14small

00:30:15healthcare analytics company that is amazing um yeah but but you're also w2 and w2 like if i want

00:30:23to get into the weeds i didn't know this at the time but looking back w2 gets taxed higher than

00:30:27you that's the highest tax uh type that you're going to be on your taxes i don't know if i

00:30:35said that right

00:30:35but w2 is really is taxed really heavily from the government um whereas now i have an s corp

00:30:42and i'm an employee of my company and so i get a lot of write-offs um for that and

00:30:48then i have

00:30:48multiple llcs underneath it for analyst builder for youtube and for my consulting so i have three

00:30:53separate llcs and so um i get taxed on much lower rate because of just how the government works and

00:31:01how they tax companies and how they tax people um which i didn't understand that until i started my

00:31:06own business um but yeah one of the one of the things that i really like about kind of starting

00:31:12my own thing and consulting specifically because if you take everything else out of it just like

00:31:17just looking at my consulting piece then i still make more money than i did when i was a manager

00:31:22that alone when you when you can kind of pick and choose what you want to do when you want

00:31:26to do it

00:31:27you have a lot more flexibility and like you said if i want to take on more projects and make

00:31:31more

00:31:31money this month i can't um whereas you can't do that in a w-2 uh or a full-time

00:31:36nine-to-five job

00:31:37you just no company is going to be like hey alex if you pick up this extra project then we'll

00:31:42pay you

00:31:42more money no you're going to pick up that extra project because i told you to um and so you

00:31:46you

00:31:47know it is really capped um it's a you know you get you get the paycheck that hits the 15th

00:31:52and the

00:31:5230th of every month um but as a freelancer consultant um you know you can pick and choose and you

00:31:59get to set

00:31:59your own rates and it's very freeing um and so now i've kind of there's been many people who i've

00:32:06known for the past five six years who i used to mentor back in the day who have now quit

00:32:11their jobs

00:32:12and are starting to do consulting and freelancing because they also you know have started to be

00:32:17able to do that and they're not content influencers in any way like they're just regular regular people

00:32:22who you know realize that you know they were limited in how much they're going to make in their

00:32:27full-time job and are now doing um contracting and some of that is because you know i've stayed

00:32:32pretty close in touch with them over the years and you know i give them advice and so now i

00:32:36know many

00:32:37people who um you know have are starting to make more money just from consulting or doing freelancing

00:32:42um in their niche like a lot of them have really specific niches that they're really good at like one

00:32:48of my friends he does um data analytics in like uh with law offices oh so for like law firms

00:32:55which i've

00:32:56have no knowledge i don't know that data or that industry at all but he used to be a paralegal

00:33:01and

00:33:01then he became a data analyst and at a small company and now he does consulting for data companies

00:33:06or for sorry for law firms in with their data and i thought that was super great and so his

00:33:11niche

00:33:11he makes a lot of money from because lawyers uh law offices tend to may have a lot of money

00:33:16uh

00:33:16and so i was you know that's like the career progression does not have to be

00:33:22you know junior data analyst data analyst senior data analyst analytics manager or whatever it is

00:33:27there's also other options in terms of you can become um you know more of a tech lead or analytics

00:33:34lead

00:33:35so lead analyst you can um there are roles in a lot of companies where you can be quote unquote

00:33:42a manager

00:33:42but as an individual contributor now um so you have a manager title but you still

00:33:48contribute individually which um is really interesting i hadn't heard of that before too

00:33:54long ago oh it's a little bit like a workaround like yeah well it's a workaround so it's a career

00:34:00progression in title and maybe in the responsibilities as well but you'll make more money because you have a

00:34:05manager title but you don't have to actually manage um and then you can of course uh always do

00:34:10consulting and freelancing on the side and i recommend people doing that if they're interested

00:34:14in it um just because you know you can earn extra money on the side and potentially uh get out

00:34:20of the

00:34:20rat race of nine to five and work even harder on your own business wait i don't want to i

00:34:27don't want

00:34:27to you know bring back pull back the curtain so people can see that i shouldn't have said that

00:34:31um has that been has that been your experience do you think you work harder as um

00:34:37as a consultant or have you did you work harder when you were in big tech i think um had

00:34:43i stayed

00:34:44in big tech and like push for more proportions like which you know like if you're a driven person

00:34:48i think that's kind of what often happens i probably probably would have worked about as hard in both

00:34:53right because it's hard like what most people say i think for big tech is like you kind of become

00:34:57senior and then you coast um right like it's not that you can coast it's just like you kind of

00:35:00know

00:35:00what you need to deliver you kind of know how to deliver it and then you you don't need to

00:35:04go

00:35:04too much beyond that but you know whenever you see these like crazy salaries like a seven figure

00:35:10salary it's like well that you need to be in ic like seven which is like two levels above um

00:35:16a

00:35:16senior and that takes a lot of effort and like they often say like just getting the promotions

00:35:21often the hardest part because you have to like prove that you're this level versus once you've got

00:35:26it now you just have to like maintain that level or not really at least go below it so you

00:35:31know i

00:35:31imagine i would have tried to do that and and so there's there's always um you know i probably

00:35:36would have but could i have maybe found a way to like work a system probably i'm sure i'm sure

00:35:43there's there's always a way like people figure out ways to just you know rest invest um but it's hard

00:35:49not to want to work harder when it's your own thing because it's like but it's my thing right

00:35:53you're you're more motivated to do that because to some degree there's like value just in seattle

00:35:57data guy as as a brand so like i know that like there's probably even ways i could you know

00:36:02if i

00:36:03keep making it bigger and more well known that there could be value in other ways that have

00:36:08nothing to do with my hourly rate um and so yeah i mean like i think i work harder but

00:36:12i think it's

00:36:13also because it's my company and yeah you know it's my choice yeah no i i absolutely uh agree when

00:36:21when you have some like skin in the game um or you know it's like like you said earlier if

00:36:26you

00:36:27it's kind of uncapped so if the harder you work the more you get paid it's pretty motivating to

00:36:32work pretty hard um you know and i i found that to be true for myself i work a lot

00:36:38harder now that

00:36:38i have mostly my own things that i do um when i was working for someone else i worked hard

00:36:43uh there's no doubt about it but i definitely didn't like work when i didn't have to work

00:36:48like when i was at home i don't i never looked i never even thought about work i was just

00:36:53focused on

00:36:53my family and whatnot um but now i'm like okay once the kids go to bed i'm gonna keep working

00:36:59because the more i work the better it is for my family and so um yeah it's pretty it's pretty

00:37:07interesting just uh everybody's different path and how people as i've met so many people from

00:37:14different paths who have gone all the way up like i know a lot of um just talking about a

00:37:19different

00:37:19career path i know a lot of people in the data world who have quit their job as a data

00:37:24engineer

00:37:24data analyst data scientist and then started their own company so like they then they create some type

00:37:28of software they have an idea for you know a new process to do tickets or you know a competitor

00:37:35like something like jira or um you know an etl tool

00:37:42or whatever it is for their niche because if they get that product and in front of great companies

00:37:48they can make a lot of money and so that's a whole nother career path that you can do um

00:37:53and so yeah

00:37:54there's just so many different options out there it's hard to you know hard to if someone was to

00:37:59ask me like what to do now versus what three or even four years ago i would have totally different

00:38:04answers because now i i see i see a lot bigger spectrum of what the possibilities are whereas

00:38:10many years ago i would have just said become a manager uh now i don't i usually i'm like you

00:38:15can

00:38:16but make sure that's like really what you want to do like you really like

00:38:20what a manager does because you're no longer like working hands-on typically um yes that that uh

00:38:29uh that kind of segues i guess into another topic which is just data analytics and engineering uh

00:38:39kind of the differences between we talked a little bit about some career progression a little bit about

00:38:44uh you know cap on money but if you were to distill it i mean data analytics and engineering are

00:38:51pretty different and you've done both so what would you say is the big biggest differences between the two

00:38:59yeah i think generally the way i think about it is you know one they have very different goals um

00:39:04right like a data analyst goal is to kind of build you know whether it's a dashboard analysis some sort

00:39:08of like end piece of you know data insight or or product that's going to be served often to um

00:39:16you

00:39:16know either management or needs to you know be used for a presentation or something of that nature so

00:39:19it like goes somewhere very clear and it has like usually an end point um data engineering work to me

00:39:26and the goals tend to be that like you're trying to build this robust system of like both those

00:39:30pipelines but then also robust like data set uh that can be used for multiple of those endpoints

00:39:36right like you're like i just want to build you know this kind of core data layer that anyone can

00:39:41come to and kind of work with um and and it's it's it's reliable you know if things change we

00:39:47can

00:39:47easily change it things of that nature so i think it kind of splits the two in terms of what

00:39:51they do

00:39:52and it often is why sometimes we can be a little bit not at odds but like we just operate

00:39:59differently

00:39:59so like sometimes people like oh let's have the analyst kind of do data pipelines and do data

00:40:03engineering work and then you'll see you'll have that happen and what usually ends up happening is

00:40:07you have like now a thousand data pipelines that all do one very specific task um whereas generally

00:40:13data engineer will be like well how can i make one pipeline to hopefully serve those thousands of tasks

00:40:20now be honest with me man did you get into data engineering for the money

00:40:25uh no i mean i i don't i think again like i was thinking data science and then initially

00:40:30you know i i think trying to work for big tech was definitely a combination of like money plus

00:40:38prestige plus like you're thinking that you're going to work on hard problems um which sometimes

00:40:42you are sometimes you're not like you can vary like a fun fact like big tech like anywhere else

00:40:46like you're gonna have some people that work on really really hard problems but probably 80 percent

00:40:50of people are working on just standard problems uh and if anything it's sometimes easier because

00:40:55the data infrastructure is so mature um i had a way like i had to do a lot more stuff

00:41:00to put out

00:41:01pipelines uh when i worked at a healthcare analytics startup uh compared to facebook where i was like

00:41:05all i gotta do is write some basically python script and put it somewhere and it runs um and has

00:41:12everything around it and logging on all this stuff i don't have to write all that okay well that's

00:41:17that's easier um but uh yeah i think i think i my first job i was making uh probably close

00:41:25to what

00:41:25you were about like 50 55k and i knew like all my friends were making like 100 to 120 so

00:41:31that that

00:41:31was like one motivation factor i was like i'm making half right all my friends are like this is this

00:41:36is

00:41:37not a great situation to be you're going out to the bar they're picking up your tab you feel

00:41:40embarrassed yeah so so i think that but that was more about focusing on like just changing companies

00:41:47it was not about the role it was like well i know i need to be a different company because

00:41:50you know there was like the first company was like a hospital uh next one was healthcare analytics and

00:41:54then eventually big tech but every time you know your your paycheck grows and life is long

00:42:00so it all it all it was fine in 20 years you'll be like some hybrid role that we've never

00:42:08even heard

00:42:08of yet you'll be like oh yeah you know i do consulting on you know the matrix analysis

00:42:14every you know matrix engineering or something it'll be something we've never heard of that's

00:42:18like popular in 20 years you know it's kind of like like you said i i agree that you just

00:42:23kind

00:42:23of go with the flow a little bit you kind of see where it takes you that is um that

00:42:28is something

00:42:28that people always comment on though is the salary differences and i think the salary differences

00:42:33are fairly justified i think um i think the engineering work and building pipelines is more

00:42:42complicated and you can get more wrong with it um or do more things wrong is how i'll say it

00:42:48um

00:42:50because pipelines are going to fail all the time you know and and someone needs to be able to know

00:42:54how to use them fix them build them whereas data analysis work you can get it wrong and it can

00:43:00really

00:43:00mess up some stuff but you know the data is still there you can go back and you can fix

00:43:05it and it's

00:43:06not as complicated to go back and get right in my opinion um and so yeah it's uh the the

00:43:13pay

00:43:14discrepancy is usually quite large i think for when i was working um as a data analyst at my bigger

00:43:19company it was a health care company um i was making i think about 90 000 as kind of a

00:43:29mid-level

00:43:30data analyst with a 10 bonus so let's say 100 000 yeah flat i know for a fact that the

00:43:36database

00:43:36developers and data engineers that i was working at were making about 180 to about 220 in that range

00:43:43so a little over double um and so definitely looking at that you can see you you could your

00:43:49mind starts going you're like wait a second if i learn those skills and i start doing what they're

00:43:53doing i can make more money um so that definitely is a contributing factor for a lot of people

00:43:57wanting to transition into you know even data science uh data architecture data engineering

00:44:03database development all those data adjacent things and so i mean i think it's a very fair

00:44:10um reason to want to go into that i don't really uh i don't i don't look down on anybody

00:44:16who would

00:44:16want to do better for themselves financially yeah yeah again like you've got kids i think that's

00:44:21always the hard thing to separate like i think some people there's there's there's some level of

00:44:25gatekeeping occasionally where people like well you need all these skills but it's like

00:44:27it is hard not to want to do those things when it's like i could change my life essentially right

00:44:34like yeah like working for facebook financially changed my life and right like it puts me in a

00:44:39very different situation i'd have to have worked like 10 more years uh extra to like to get that place

00:44:46right so it's one of those things where it's hard not to be like well yeah there's a reason why

00:44:52it's

00:44:52helpful um yeah and money always plays a factor but i mean that's a little bit of the world we

00:44:59that

00:44:59other people have kind of created around us so what do you what do you think is easier to get

00:45:03into

00:45:03data engineering or data analytics like landing your first job ah what is it is it you know is the

00:45:10data analytics market worse better harder easier you know what would you say generally i see i mean

00:45:17i just know to me so many people that have gone from data analytics to data engineering that i will

00:45:21usually say that yeah getting data analytics is easier first even if you're eventually planning

00:45:26to go to data and even if you have some of the skills initially to go to data eng because

00:45:30there's

00:45:31just so many skills that are expected of a lot of data engineers um and it's so broad that it's

00:45:37hard

00:45:37to build all those skills um just from school or just just from like a job for a year um

00:45:44but data

00:45:44like working as a data analyst you're often somewhat adjacent and so you can either talk to data

00:45:48engineers you can kind of work on some of the stuff that they're doing maybe you you can ask to

00:45:52work

00:45:52on a pipeline and get accustomed to it you know um so i think generally data getting into data analytics

00:45:58is easier initially um and then it kind of can be a good like place to move laterally into a

00:46:04data

00:46:05engineering position because again there's just you have to learn both all this like programming and

00:46:09and data skills but also some like more system admin skills and cloud skills and it's just so weirdly

00:46:16broad um and and sometimes non-specific so yeah that's a that is a very fair point i i also

00:46:23know

00:46:23a lot more people it's it's interesting um just kind of to say contradictory to what i just said it

00:46:29is interesting now that i have you know my youtube channel and analyst builder and stuff like that how

00:46:35many people are messaging me the opposite they're like hey i'm a software engineer or i'm a you know

00:46:40software developer or i'm in web dev and i want to get into data analytics because i don't really like

00:46:45the work i do and so i'm starting to you know i i i get to see the opposite side

00:46:49of that too

00:46:50but i will agree for sure that i definitely think that the entry the barrier of entry for data analytics

00:46:58is a little bit lower and for a lot of data analyst roles like even look at small companies

00:47:03like a like i broke when i got into it it's really it was pretty simple it's just they needed

00:47:08sql and excel

00:47:10and so that's not extremely difficult but even for data engineering for at a small company you're

00:47:17going to need to know quite a few things um even if it's just sql you need to know ssis

00:47:22or srs or

00:47:23you know different tools within that can be more complicated if you're just starting out and you don't

00:47:28know anything yet and so like i say yeah i think the barrier of entry is a lot lower and

00:47:32there's a lot

00:47:33more jobs uh out there that kind of cater towards data analytics because people work with so much

00:47:41data at so many companies and there's a lot of crm tools out there like tools where you don't necessarily

00:47:46need a full data engineer um but the end data may have more use cases where you'll need a data

00:47:54analyst

00:47:55um and so they're they're going to be probably more opportunities um just in general about that

00:48:01kind of work needed um but yeah the the job market's been don't get me started on the job market

00:48:07actually

00:48:08you know what we're going into the job market what do you think about the current job actually

00:48:12should i start to soften the blow when you speak or should should i let you be the bad guy

00:48:16i i mean i'm happy to like at least like give some because it is interesting right like they just

00:48:21uh whatever um uh what's the word i'm looking for here where they they corrected their numbers

00:48:28by the u.s labor of statistics i believe yeah well yeah yeah yes but they just they just um

00:48:34you know

00:48:35corrected their numbers by nearly a million and it's funny because like for the whole last year

00:48:41i've been hearing like job market's great job market's great job market's great and then i i think i

00:48:46had at least half a dozen if not more friends and these are not in tech like get laid off

00:48:50and i'm just

00:48:51like okay like if this proportion of my friends right like a random sample of friends have been

00:48:56laid off right of just someone that people know it just doesn't feel right um someone used the quote

00:49:02i guess it's from jeff bezos that um if the data and the anecdotes don't line up um the anecdotes

00:49:08are

00:49:08probably right and so to me i'm just like i don't know guys i'm pretty sure the job market is

00:49:14not as

00:49:14good as you're saying um because again like if you take my random sample of people like it's weird

00:49:19to have that many people get laid off um all all in a very short period of time just just

00:49:25felt really

00:49:26really weird so it's been a very weird job market especially i think after that like big boost in

00:49:332020 and 2021 when it just felt like everyone was hiring you would get interviews just for having

00:49:38two years of experience somewhere you know big tech would like interview you i was doing

00:49:44like three four interviews a week when i was at facebook um because you know we have a process so

00:49:49like you got to do a lot but yeah it was just going but now it just feels like we've

00:49:54hit a wall

00:49:54um in a weird way yeah i i absolutely think that is a correct observation i think um

00:50:03there is some incentive you know for them to say the job market's good i just say they as in

00:50:08like

00:50:08just people in general it's you know there's an incentive there and so the job market has been

00:50:12a lot more tough um i about a year ago when the job market just kind of started going down

00:50:20i was like

00:50:20you know i i was like i i think that this is going to be somewhat temporary um i was

00:50:26hoping in the near

00:50:27the end of 2024 that we would see a little bit more of the light um i was expecting interest

00:50:34rates

00:50:34to go down sooner and they haven't they've stayed longer uh higher a lot longer which don't get me

00:50:40started on that but i had expected there to be more push in the job market because i think a

00:50:47lot

00:50:47of people had seen it over a year ago kind of start to you know slow down and hiring a

00:50:52little bit

00:50:53but now where we are there hasn't been a lot of progress in terms of um the job market and

00:50:59so

00:51:00i don't know knowing what i know now i don't know when it's gonna get a lot better i think

00:51:07it depends

00:51:08on you know how the government uh handles you know this inflation that's been really impacting a lot

00:51:13of businesses because that's stopped a lot of people from hiring is the higher prices um of costs

00:51:20goods uh employees etc um and so i think that will impact it a lot but also there just needs

00:51:27to be

00:51:29more demand uh for the jobs and right now the demand is low because um you know people are

00:51:34starting to pinch their pennies uh because you know things are getting more expensive like me and you

00:51:40you know if things are more expensive for me and you we're probably not going to go out and hire

00:51:44another

00:51:45uh person on our team i'm not going to hire a a contractor to work with me because it's going

00:51:51to

00:51:51be expensive and i maybe want to save that money and that's what most companies out there are doing

00:51:55they're trying to cut back they're trying to make sure that their shareholders are making money

00:52:00and so they're cutting back on the most expensive thing in uh you know the industry which is labor

00:52:05and so uh yeah it's it's been a really tough job market in my opinion and i have

00:52:12maybe even just this week i've had a lot of people reach out um and say they landed jobs but

00:52:18at the

00:52:18same time not as many as like even a year ago like you know the number is probably 60 percent

00:52:25as many

00:52:26people because i usually get at least like a couple a week um and now it's like maybe two or

00:52:33three

00:52:33week um whereas before it was about double and so yeah it's just it's a really tough market but

00:52:38uh what i've been telling everybody if anyone's watching is curious what my advice is is my biggest

00:52:44piece of advice and this is not just my advice this is a lot of other people who i've talked

00:52:48to in the

00:52:49industry is try to go local that has been my biggest piece of advice that has been really successful

00:52:55with like um especially people near larger cities so i know a lot of people in the dallas area

00:53:03um and like in texas area uh who they're like hey i live near the city i've been applying to

00:53:09all these remote jobs i'm getting nowhere with remote jobs no remote jobs are getting 4 000 5 000

00:53:14applications if you're not one of the first people in the first five minutes of a job being posted you

00:53:19basically aren't there's just too many so people are going starting to go really local like they're

00:53:24looking at their only local jobs and they're having so much more success because those local jobs are

00:53:29still hiring but they want someone who's either hybrid or on site because that's how a lot of

00:53:34believe it or not that's how a lot of businesses operate they want people local they want people

00:53:39who understand understand the business that's local to them um and so a lot of people have been having

00:53:44success with that i've had very few people who have been recently telling me that they've been

00:53:48getting jobs remote um just because of how competitive it is right now with layoffs and you know the

00:53:56markets right now it's tough to get those remote jobs yeah yeah i actually had a few people reach

00:54:02out to me because like because they're getting 4 000 jobs or 4 000 applicants for a job they're

00:54:08like can you send us some referrals because we don't want to deal with the 4 000 applicants we just

00:54:12got it's like we don't even need know what to do with it because all right you're you're tacking

00:54:16on like chat gpt and what you can do with that right like oh yeah write my resume and automatically

00:54:21apply to any remote job um plus just the fact that now the market's bigger and like our remote's more

00:54:26of a thing yeah it's it's not to say that they're impossible to get but like if you don't have

00:54:30a

00:54:30referral you're definitely it's like now it's almost like you just have to have a referral and even then

00:54:34there's probably like 10 referrals coming in yeah they're getting and and then you can get picked

00:54:39and filtered throughout through those instead um so yeah it's you know it's it's it's it's interesting

00:54:46is always the thing that's actually real so i hadn't i hadn't thought of that that so something

00:54:51that i just noticed recently this was about the past two weeks three weeks is i've had more people

00:54:56messaging me saying hey alex do you have anyone you can recommend for this job which i do that all

00:55:00the time um people who i've gotten to know through you know discord or on youtube or through linkedin

00:55:06if i see their skills their project i communicate with them a lot um and i talk to so many

00:55:11people

00:55:11i will recommend them for these jobs it's been really picking up and i maybe that's the reason

00:55:16why um because literally just yesterday i had someone messaged me who i've been chatting with

00:55:21for a while and she said hey we're hiring for an analytics manager role do you have anybody that

00:55:24you would know i was like i actually do i was like somebody who has five years experience as an

00:55:29analyst i'd known them for five years i was like let me you know get uh send you you know

00:55:35their profile

00:55:37and i didn't i didn't even think maybe that is the reason why is just because they want some more

00:55:43they don't want to filter through 4 000 resumes they just want someone who they trust which i guess is

00:55:49me to recommend someone who i trust um as a referral and so i've been doing that just with people

00:55:55who

00:55:55you know i've gotten to know over the years um and i that it's just it's kind of mind-blowing

00:56:01that

00:56:01you're saying that because now that makes a lot more sense because it's been a lot more than normal

00:56:04like in the past month it's probably been like 15 people wow or so who've reached out and said hey

00:56:11do you have a referral or do you know someone who'd be good fit for this specific position

00:56:14and i have referred someone every time um but i never thought that i didn't make that connection

00:56:20between so many applicants and needing to ask someone who you trust for a job you know getting

00:56:26that referral that's interesting it's an i just am really uh i put that together yeah yeah i'm

00:56:33curious and this is something i feel like in general with things like again with chat t and

00:56:37just all this ability to like mass email like mass email if you're like a salesperson i i feel like

00:56:44the relationships like side of things will just be more important because it's like i'm so sick and

00:56:49tired of like clearly automated messaging and where we can't discern it like it's just too much and

00:56:55we're like humans we're gonna overload we're just gonna be like you know what i'm just gonna go back

00:56:59to what i can handle which is like the relationships that i have and you know that that level of

00:57:03trust um which is would be kind of interesting it's it's almost like going back to when you know the

00:57:09you just knew that the two shoemakers in your in your county or in one of them people like and

00:57:15the

00:57:15other one they don't and yeah so that's the one that you go to i i cannot agree more actually

00:57:22in fact i've seen that in other areas of my life recently is you know we we're starting to get

00:57:27to know people at my kid's school or if my my son is you know doing different sports or we

00:57:33meet

00:57:33people in the neighborhood who know people and i trust their referral more than i will the internet

00:57:38because i just i'm like i can't trust that those reviews are real i can't trust that that whatever

00:57:44service is real so we'll you know have people who we know or you know let's say it's even my

00:57:49parents

00:57:49i'll trust my parents review over an internet review any day uh and so yeah for the job it the

00:57:57uh the other day i was on x or twitter if you want to call it that uh the other

00:58:02day and someone

00:58:02was posting and it got like a hundred thousand likes or something about this guy who created a

00:58:07github repo where you can you know you can use it um because he open sourced it and he basically

00:58:13created a system where ai goes through all the open jobs and applies to every single one

00:58:17sends a custom message like it's like mass messaging system on steroids um and he landed like

00:58:2610 interviews the first day he used it and so people were going nuts over it and so that's the

00:58:30kind of thing like if more people are going to start using this more products are going to be

00:58:34created like that and it's just going to be so many it's going to be so much mass

00:58:42applicants that you don't know who to trust and so like you said you go back to your roots you

00:58:46go

00:58:46back to you know what can i trust if i can't trust the internet which you shouldn't blindly trust the

00:58:50internet ever um if i can't trust the internet who do i trust it's my neighbor it's the person who

00:58:55has

00:58:56experience who i actually personally know um or i've gotten to know online at least you know those

00:59:01are the people that you're going to go to and you're going to you're going to believe and kind

00:59:05of value their opinion more highly than you know just a random resume because anybody can create a

00:59:13resume and fake it and get an interview doesn't mean they're going to be good at the job or get

00:59:17the

00:59:17job but it does mean that they can potentially get an interview and that's hard to compete against

00:59:22when they're at that scale you know yeah yeah at least all the they're most likely applying to all

00:59:26remote jobs i would imagine uh across like all of linkedin indeed glass door um but like like i was

00:59:34saying earlier that's why i think local jobs are that much more um are that much more of an opportunity

00:59:41to kind of stand out and be local and be a human and be in person people really um are

00:59:46seemingly valuing

00:59:47not and companies are requiring a lot of people to come back into the office anyways so but they keep

00:59:52trying it it's a it's a hard struggle but i like you said some companies just start that way um

00:59:58and but

00:59:58some people i know like don't don't want to do that and i i kind of get it to some

01:00:01degree but i'm just

01:00:02like i don't i i yeah we we both already talked we can't we can't really say too much we

01:00:06both complained

01:00:07about driving in our traffic was like yeah we we did say it sucks i guess earlier it does it

01:00:13does suck

01:00:14it does but when you're first breaking in like hey you got to do what you got to do i'm

01:00:19a firm believer

01:00:19that you just have to suck it up for the first like couple years a lot of people and a

01:00:26lot of there

01:00:26there have been a lot of people online over the years who always like you get a hundred thousand

01:00:31dollars remote job you can sit in your pjs and relax if you earn you know you uh learn xyz

01:00:38the realistic expectation should not be that it should be that you're going to um you know you're

01:00:45gonna have to kind of grind it out for a little while get some experience become knowledgeable in

01:00:50an area and then maybe you can do that um it's not unheard of once you get some experience and

01:00:56you

01:00:56actually really know what you're doing um big shout out to matthew alderman really quick uh because

01:01:02he's my mod he comes all the live streams and he gives me five dollars for my five for five

01:01:08at

01:01:08wendy's every live stream and so just big shout out to him really appreciate it um you got a big

01:01:14you

01:01:14got a big thing for wendy's that's the second time and you should get like a so i have a

01:01:18heart the

01:01:18reason i like wendy's so much is when i was very poor very um i was right out in dallas

01:01:24it was a

01:01:25it was a um non-paid let me see my that's my wife that's not my wife so i don't

01:01:30care uh when

01:01:32um i was out in dallas i had no money it was an unpaid internship um i that was my

01:01:40splurge my splurge

01:01:42was a four it was a at the time a four for four and now it's a five for five

01:01:45um it's a five dollar

01:01:48biggie bag if you want to be specific all right but it was a four dollar um meal and i

01:01:52used to get that

01:01:53all the time maybe like two or three times a week as like a splurge um because that's all i

01:01:59could

01:01:59really afford other than that i was just eating eggs mandarin oranges granola bars maybe apples

01:02:06that was my whole diet and water oh my gosh that was my diet why why not rice i'm just

01:02:11kidding

01:02:12if we're talking about cutting yeah i i had a i i you know never rice never really sat well

01:02:18with me

01:02:19with my stomach um i think i maybe just was not eating a good kind of rice maybe um because

01:02:26i can

01:02:26eat rice fine now and it doesn't bother me it's mostly really bad quality rice i was like my my

01:02:33total budget but like everything my entire life cost me one thousand dollars a month wow that included

01:02:39food insurance groceries um rent everything is under a thousand dollars a month um i would give my

01:02:48left kidney to go back um and only have to spend a thousand dollars a month my family is very

01:02:53expensive yes a lot more expensive than that um but you know the the wendy's was always like a big

01:03:01treat for me um and i i i still even to this day well it's kind of a tradition now

01:03:06for my family

01:03:07we'll go out to the beach um here near charleston and on the way home we get wendy's and as

01:03:14we only you

01:03:14know we only go you know during the summer and it's only maybe once a week and so that's like

01:03:19our

01:03:20splurge and the kids love it um and it's just like a it's become like a family tradition um and

01:03:25i i don't

01:03:25know wendy's has a special place in my heart even though the quality is uh it's not good for you

01:03:30i mean like i think we all have something like that where it's like i love that it's like connected

01:03:35to to something yeah deeper right like we've all had uh well i can't say we've all had moments

01:03:40of some level of struggle but i think it's it's the thing that i don't know makes us human uh

01:03:46yeah yep food connects us wendy's connects us across the across the world food definitely i i think so

01:03:54i love i mean that's again that's where i i started thinking when i was like 16 i'm like i'm

01:03:58gonna work

01:03:58in fine dining uh i remember my my career counselor or whatever high school counselor was like are you

01:04:03dumb like because i had good grades and they're like why are you going that direction you could go

01:04:08i was like i don't care about the money uh lo and behold after working like five years and fine

01:04:13dining and my paycheck i think going from like maybe i i was really lucky and i got ten dollars

01:04:18an

01:04:19hour for my first job which back in 2008 or whenever i started working was great um and i

01:04:24think i eventually got to maybe 12 or 14 an hour after five years and i was just like

01:04:29hmm that that math is just not mathing again as a kid it was great um it's a lot of

01:04:35money but

01:04:36once you start being like i want a family someday like i want to do all this other stuff you're

01:04:40like

01:04:40i can't do any of that stuff um so yeah yeah that puts the that puts a fear in you

01:04:47uh when you start

01:04:48thinking about your future you're like wait a second i don't want to i have bigger aspirations than

01:04:53just myself uh in the future that'll that'll motivate a lot of people yes that was that was your

01:05:00recent post if you want to get motivated just have three kids that's that's that's a sudden

01:05:05motivation that so apparently that was very controversial oh people in the comments you

01:05:11should go back and look at the comments everyone should everyone go and like that post um people

01:05:16took a big offense to that they're like alex that's really insensitive because uh what if i what

01:05:22if someone can't have kids i'm like okay that's fair i feel you know what that's fair but listen

01:05:26it's not for you then okay this post isn't for you like alex well you know what if people just

01:05:33don't want to have kids we like we like we just want to not i was like don't then don't

01:05:37i'm like

01:05:38guys this post isn't for you i was like so people were taking a lot of people were taking offense

01:05:42to

01:05:42it and it was a it was like it was a joke i was gonna say i imagine it was

01:05:45mostly a joke where it

01:05:46was kind of just like look yeah it's really hard to have three kids like it having three kids is

01:05:53tougher than any job i've ever had so it was of course a joke i was like if you want

01:05:59to get

01:06:00have be motivated have three kids well you have to when you have three kids because you have mouths

01:06:04to feed it was a joke and so people took offense to it believe it or not yeah that was

01:06:09my that was

01:06:09my donald trump impersonation believe it or not can you believe it i'm not good at impersonations

01:06:15that's not uh your forte no i'm really bad at it actually my wife laughs because i do it so

01:06:22bad

01:06:23some people they laugh because your impression is really good mine's so bad that that's why people

01:06:28laugh yes well so it's okay i didn't recognize you told me yeah yeah no no but um but yeah

01:06:37i think

01:06:37that's that's always a hard part i think about the internet it's like you you don't always know

01:06:41like and you do feel like you do feel for that because you know it's um having kids is is

01:06:48it's

01:06:49becoming harder it feels like so no in all in all methods like both cost wise and everything it's

01:06:54like yeah well when the global economy crashes everything will be affordable again you'll buy a

01:07:01house for a nickel uh that's always like an interesting thought right because it's like do you want

01:07:06the global economy to crash to some degree i mean depends as long as it comes back i guess but

01:07:11i don't know what does that what does that mean um that's our next that's our next live stream

01:07:16do we want the global economy to crash i it would be nice for house prices to be more reasonable

01:07:22i think

01:07:23that's that's true i don't think uh pe firms should be allowed to buy you know you know houses that

01:07:30should go to people they can buy apartments fine buy apartment complexes um leave homes for people

01:07:38who you know like or just families um yeah but uh yeah it's a lot of people say the same

01:07:46thing about

01:07:46like owning an airbnb um you know a lot of there's a been a lot of especially in certain local

01:07:52communities where they're like they're starting to outlaw in even certain i believe there's been

01:07:57discussion and was it new york all of new york was considering banning i know i believe in part

01:08:04of new york they banned airbnbs but they've considered doing it at the state level banning

01:08:08all airbnbs which i don't own an airbnb so it wouldn't hurt me so i say go for it um

01:08:13but you

01:08:14know there's like you know that's a whole again whole different topic and i know we're running over

01:08:19now but yeah um yeah the the just affordability for anybody at almost all levels is really tough

01:08:27even you know for our family i'm we're me and my wife are budgeting now more than almost as much

01:08:32as

01:08:32when we were when we first got married uh because things were more expensive um you know it's just

01:08:39how the world is right now so we'll see what happens we'll see what happens i think in the next

01:08:45five years it'll be very interesting to see you looking back you know like let's say at 2030

01:08:50looking back to see what happens in the next five years because you see where houses go see where the

01:08:56economy goes where the job market goes uh but if there's one thing i know is you know try to

01:09:03have

01:09:03as much control as you can of what you can control uh put in the effort apply local learn data

01:09:11engineering and data analytics from our youtube channels and you'll be good to go and and buy

01:09:15wendy's and buy some wendy's treat yourself uh you know it's my advice for this tuesday treat yourself

01:09:22with some wendy's a nice five dollar biggie bag i look i look forward to that linkedin post

01:09:28i used to treat myself i'll write it i used to treat myself to five dollars ladies i saw a

01:09:34dog outside

01:09:34the wendy's and i gave him my five i went to the interview that i had to go what

01:09:41i said you think i won't but i'll write it i i'm look i the other funny thing for anyone

01:09:46listening

01:09:46to this um when i the few chats we have had um alex will multiple times in that chat be

01:09:53like oh i'm

01:09:53gonna write that down uh that's a linkedin post i almost always do don't i yeah yeah yeah you've got

01:09:59like three of them he'll have one hour chat and have like three or four posts that come from it

01:10:03it's

01:10:03very very that's true i've already had multiple in my head i just haven't written them down yet from

01:10:07this genuinely because because now part of my process is waking up emails and going on social

01:10:13media doing my one post for the day i now every time i hear something i'm like my audience would

01:10:19like that i should write that down and so i do and then i post about it and so on

01:10:23my phone maybe i

01:10:24should i let me show let me show it just for last the last thing before we go i'm going

01:10:28to show

01:10:28this is my page it's going to be okay so this is titled oh you can't read it's backward it's

01:10:35titled

01:10:35linkedin posts but if you i'm going to start scrolling these are all posts wait just let it go

01:10:41let it go yeah we see the little i see the little scroll bar there on the side now keep

01:10:46it going it's

01:10:46not even like these are ones that i haven't posted yet i have hundreds there's like there's got to

01:10:50be there has to be like 150 200 in here because i i just now that that's how my mind

01:10:57is wired because

01:10:58i've been doing this for like five years i just am always there's it's all it's like second nature

01:11:02you know that could be a good linkedin post i hate to be that guy but it could that's that's

01:11:08alex's

01:11:09alex's brain currently has like 30 percent linkedin 30 percent analyst builder like you know

01:11:1510 percent family no yeah yeah family's like two percent everything else in social media and money

01:11:24all right well hey listen i appreciate you joining the live stream i think the next time we'll do it

01:11:31we'll do it on yours yeah right yeah okay sweet so next time we'll do it on yours the um

01:11:36the this

01:11:38software stream yard had the ability to do it to linkedin but they asked me to pay and i said

01:11:42no

01:11:43but maybe if if you know this this thing goes somewhere we're like all right we're gonna keep

01:11:49doing this i might pay for stream yard yeah um but this is the first time i'm using it and

01:11:53so i'm

01:11:54i wasn't gonna pay for it but yeah i mean i i am paying for it so i can't do

01:11:58both what the heck

01:12:00you're telling me this now is that the end of our live stream well i i think then i'd have

01:12:06to

01:12:06connect to your like uh youtube channel somehow so yeah i don't know i don't know about i don't know

01:12:11if i trust you that much i mean that's fair that's exactly like i certainly like guys i'm

01:12:15taking over just doing a live live stream yeah you're gonna start posting videos too about like

01:12:22why your channel is the best and everyone needs to follow you and exactly exactly that could have

01:12:26totally been a really funny bit yes sorry i ruined it ruined the bit or or or this is just

01:12:32gonna be a

01:12:32really deep cut you know we'll do it one day only like 130 people who are watching this right now

01:12:36or maybe the few thousand that watch in the future will get it if they watch this yeah

01:12:41yeah all right well i appreciate you joining thanks everybody for joining i know we didn't

01:12:45interact with the chat too much except except for matthew um because i always just appreciate him and i

01:12:51didn't even like that i didn't even hurt that post i should have hurted it um but thank you guys

01:12:54for

01:12:54joining really appreciate this is just a chat um if you guys have ideas uh for future chats

01:13:00we are more than open to it so send us a message on linkedin x linkedin where else would they

01:13:09email

01:13:09in the comments below comment in the comments yeah post comments of topics you'd be interested in

01:13:15and maybe we'll get some together and um that'll just be how we do live stream maybe keep it easy

01:13:21we won't plan anything either we'll just choose a topic we'll start the live stream and then we'll

01:13:26just be like hey what do we think about this i think that's a great uh there's no prep no

01:13:30prep

01:13:30involved at all i'm always i'm always for that right like anytime like alex like when you asked

01:13:36me to do like for the other thing you've asked is like oh gosh i gotta do so much prep

01:13:39for that

01:13:40this is like oh yeah i can do an hour talking easy awesome awesome thank you well yeah exactly

01:13:48and i'll be doing oh oh what last thing you're doing a um you are doing a free conference i'm

01:13:56gonna

01:13:56call it it's called a conference right yeah i know yeah i knew there could be other so just plug

01:13:59that real quick because i'll be part of that as well um and some people know about it yeah yeah

01:14:03yeah we're i'm doing a live conference uh we virtual uh we're calling it data engineering and

01:14:09machine learning summit uh it's the second time we're doing it we've got i think like 30 plus

01:14:12speakers including including alex um and yeah we're gonna be talking about data engineering machine

01:14:17learning there's gonna be multiple tracks uh hopefully one of the speakers is gonna be like

01:14:21um i want to say like the director of some analytics or senior director of like the new

01:14:26york times i'm excited for that um so i'm like oh they probably do some fun analytics over there and

01:14:32so it's a lot of a lot of cool speakers i'm really trying to find um people that don't always

01:14:37speak

01:14:37that often um so i'm like trying to get like real doers uh of of the industry so you can

01:14:43find that

01:14:43i'm not a doer well you you were at some point i used to yeah i'm i'm a little washed

01:14:50up but

01:14:52you know it might be interesting what i say okay so so yeah um i i've got a few posts

01:14:58on it and i'll

01:14:59post on it again uh so if you follow me on linkedin you'll see it so awesome awesome thank you

01:15:03all right

01:15:04well uh send me the link and i'll put that in the description so people can find that i will

01:15:08do that

01:15:08all right we're out of here i'll take it easy everybody thanks all

Alex Freberg and Ben Rogojan Livestream | Everything Data Analytics and Data Engineering

Category

Transcript

Recommended