00:00You know, we're going around accusing each other of being ideological and wrong.
00:03I didn't, I'm not accusing anybody of anything.
00:06And you're actually throwing out a lot of accusations yourself at myself and the other guests.
00:10I'm not, I don't have a dog in this fight.
00:12I'm not accusing you, I'm just saying you're using selective.
00:16Dr. Helier, let me finish. Let me finish.
00:19You're using selective evidence base.
00:21You're not using all the evidence, Dr. Helier.
00:23Your opinion.
00:24Let me clean your floor.
00:25No, it is not my opinion.
00:27Are you taking into effect the dissatisfaction of the population?
00:33You're the one who's dismissing evidence base.
00:35You're saying, no, there is no such a thing to happen.
00:39You're denying evidence and using evidence that serves you for short hair.
00:44The fact of the matter is that I said that there is dissent in Iran.
00:48I don't think you're unbiased.
00:50I don't think you're unbiased.
00:52Oh, now I'm biased.
00:53Okay.
00:54The issue isn't if there's dissent in Iran.
00:56You're not unbiased.
00:57The issue is whether or not they have the ability to actually mount a challenge.
01:01It's not about dissent.
01:02I already said that I think there's mass dissent in Iran against the regime.
01:06That's not the point.
01:06Dr. Helier, $500 million of a loss a day, you're ignoring it.
01:11A dissatisfied population, you're ignoring it.
01:14You're just taking the evidence that serves your theory that the Islamic Republic is going to survive,
01:20that the United States has lost the war, and that everything is going to be okay.
01:23And there are other factors in here.
01:25Let me ask you this then, Mr. Kiyan.
01:27What evidence do you have that that isn't the case?
01:31That these sanctions...
01:3250,000 dead is not enough for you?
01:35I mean, it obviously is enough for me.
01:3850,000 people dead is not enough for you?
01:39Is it enough to see the change that people are perhaps hoping to see in Iran?
01:47You don't see the evidence that the Islamic Republic cannot pay its own armed forces?
01:51You don't see the evidence that it's almost fallen?
01:55Almost.
01:55So the forecast of resilience and the United States is lost, I think it's too early.
02:01I think it's too hasty to make these conclusions.
02:04We can deduct from what has happened what is going to happen.
02:08But we cannot say, United States lost, Islamic Republic won, Islamic Republic will survive, China will not.
02:16It is not reasonable.
02:18The evidence is you've got Japan, you've got UK, you've got China who are holding government bonds.
02:26That's their investment.
02:27The top ones are not going to hurt the United States over the long run because they're greater economic interest.
02:36China is United States' specific partner.
02:40They have much more at stake than pleasing a government that is not popular, that is rejected by own people,
02:47rejected by the neighbors.
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