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00:00Yeah, dying in a cold tub would be, that would be something.
00:04Drowning, even.
00:05I mean, Bulldog, you took liberties yourself on that.
00:08Anthony Richardson.
00:09I stand by it.
00:10Anthony Richardson, it seems, had a good preseason.
00:13Mike, I mean, sorry for this absolute curveball to start our conversation with,
00:17if it hasn't started already, but is it interesting to you that, like,
00:21nobody wanted him or that there are certain guys in the league?
00:25Joe Milton.
00:26Joe Milton.
00:26Right.
00:26Right, the Patriots give Joe Milton to Dallas.
00:30He's great in the postseason himself.
00:32He's cut.
00:33Preseason.
00:34Preseason, what did I say?
00:35Post.
00:35Oh, well, that would be a different story.
00:37Yes.
00:38Amazing in the preseason, cut and clears waivers.
00:42What is it?
00:42What are we missing?
00:43What is anyone missing here where they see guys like this that seem so,
00:46as valuable as quarterback is, where there's this upside?
00:50Maybe you have a different opinion on Milton, I don't know,
00:52but it's sometimes strange that there isn't more interest.
00:55Yeah, Joe Milton, I think, was just a pain in the ass
00:58and thinks that he is better than anybody who's in the room with.
01:02And I guess you sort of want that sort of attitude, right?
01:04You want the guy to think, like, I can be a starter.
01:07But maybe if you want that, if that attitude then gets in the way of the
01:11starter, feeling comfortable around his backup, you know, I don't know.
01:15But that, for sure, the Richardson thing, because of the ability there,
01:19and granted he hasn't figured out how to throw accurately, consistently,
01:23but if someone could tap into that, then that would seem like, hey,
01:27you're probably getting him for a day three pick.
01:29Like, wouldn't you kind of maybe think about rolling the dice there?
01:32But, again, that might be a personality thing.
01:34People might know more than we do about him behind the scenes
01:37and just say that's not worth the headache.
01:39Yeah.
01:40So, Milton was like that.
01:41Was Milton like that when he was in New England?
01:44Yes, absolutely.
01:45Joe Milton thought he should be the starter.
01:47And, again, that in and of itself is not a problem.
01:50But I think when you looked at that room,
01:52they were breaking in Drake May as well.
01:54Like, he's the franchise.
01:56Like, they drafted him to be the guy, not you.
01:58And, you know, I think the line that was used by somebody when they traded him
02:02was, like, clear the decks for Drake.
02:04Like, just let's get rid of this guy and the sideshow that he might provide
02:08and so that Drake knows, like, don't worry, man.
02:12Like, you don't have to deal with that anymore.
02:13And that's exactly what they did.
02:15Milton had the win against the Bills in that Week 18 game that deprived the Patriots
02:20of the first overall pick.
02:22And then they just sort of handed it to Dallas.
02:24So, this might be the one area where we on the outside just miss it.
02:29I mean, whether that's fair of Richardson or Joe Milton or anybody else.
02:33I mean, there are these players where I think most of us end up puzzled.
02:37Like, what is the problem?
02:38Yeah, mostly I've guessed at Richardson, Mike, ever since the thing where he tapped
02:42out in the middle of a drive and obviously didn't know that he wasn't supposed to do
02:47that as a quarterback.
02:49And I just would guess, what else doesn't he know or understand or get?
02:54And, like, if it's, you know, if it's a bunch of stuff that's maybe not as obvious
03:01and not as public, but it's still, like, do I trust this guy?
03:04Maybe that's all of it.
03:07Yeah, I think that would be huge.
03:09And then you wonder, too, like, there are teams that are constantly in the sort of
03:13will take the project.
03:14You know, San Francisco has done this repeatedly.
03:17Like, Sam Darnall obviously helped sort of rehab Sam Darnall.
03:20Like, that would be a great spot if they trusted the kids' whatever makeup to say,
03:26we'll give you a six-round pick.
03:27We'll have him come in here.
03:29And who knows, maybe we can develop this kid into something that pushes our starter
03:33or turns into a chip that we can use later on.
03:35But nobody did.
03:37So, again, it makes you kind of believe, like, the league knows more about that person
03:42and his background than we do at this point.
03:45And that I personally resent, the idea that the league could possibly know anything more
03:50than we do on Twitter, from Twitter.
03:53Mike Giardi, our guest, always a pleasure.
03:56Boston Sports Journal.
03:57What kind of a camp slash preseason has it been in your eyes with New England?
04:03I would say it's been a productive camp for them.
04:05I mean, the preseason games are god-awful and they, you know, they punted.
04:08They didn't play their starters at all.
04:10And, like, the last preseason game in Cleveland on Thursday night was,
04:14you wanted to stick a fork in your eye.
04:16It was that bad.
04:17You know, I think they didn't dress 38 guys.
04:22And the guys that did play looked like they wanted to be anywhere else but in Cleveland.
04:26So, that was a little eye-opening just in terms of we've been talking about their,
04:30like Vrabel said about a week and a half ago, we're not a very deep team.
04:34And I think you've sort of seen that come to fruition here.
04:38You know, so the way the roster is constructed, some of the claims that they made,
04:43that the back end of this roster is very much in a state of flux
04:47and may continue to be in a state of flux for weeks, if not months, to come
04:51because I don't know that they're all that satisfied with what they have in the back end.
04:55But they certainly like their front end, but we're not going to see it
04:58until Wednesday night in Seattle.
05:00Right.
05:01So, what's the biggest thing right now going there?
05:06Is it the contract with Gonzalez?
05:09Is that, like, front burner absolutely maybe boiling over?
05:14Yeah, that's huge.
05:16And their planet edge rusher is another one.
05:19And I guess they kind of go hand in hand because Adam Schefter had an interesting report last week
05:26where he was like, well, you know, the idea is that when he was talking about Gonzalez
05:29is that, you know, Rabel tends to like the inside players, the edge rushers,
05:33those guys that can get to the passer.
05:35And that was the first time we'd heard that.
05:38And I honestly, I don't believe it.
05:40I mean, I believe that Mike would like to have Christian Gonzalez on his team for the long term.
05:44But bottom line is it hasn't gotten there.
05:46And someone gave Adam Schefter that information.
05:50And if you look at the edge rushers on this team,
05:53God knows they could use a couple more than they have.
05:55So, yeah, that's sort of been the big talking point.
05:59And Christian's a quiet kid, but I think he got a little tired of hearing
06:03that the Patriots had made him an offer to be the highest paid cornerback,
06:06which is what the owner, Robert Kraft, said on the first day of training camp
06:10when they had been pledging to negotiate privately.
06:14And then Elliott Wolfe, whatever his title is, but he's the GM,
06:18he said the same thing last week.
06:20And, you know, Christian was kind of like, well, wait a minute here.
06:23Like, what are we – you can say that, and it may look like that on paper,
06:27but as you guys know, the devil's in the details,
06:30and the details were not making him or not putting him in a position
06:33where he felt like he had to sign that or wanted to sign that contract that they offered him.
06:37Right.
06:37It's a guaranteed money, like, is a hang-up.
06:41And that seems really surprising in this era for any team,
06:45but especially the Patriots with a player of this caliber.
06:48However, how – I don't know, like, what is the end game?
06:52Is there any chance this player walks away, or is it not that dramatic?
06:59Well, I mean, look, I think they're certainly under a crunch
07:04because the word is Gonzalez doesn't want to negotiate during the season.
07:08Now, whether, you know, they could change his mind and say,
07:12hey, oh, by the way, we thought about more, here's this money.
07:14But his basically – his point to us was we've had all off-season to talk about this.
07:19And a lot of people were trying to connect it to the Devin Witherspoon contract
07:22because they had the same agents.
07:23But, you know, Witherspoon was signed 17, 18 days ago, and this thing still isn't done.
07:29Patriots – the term we use around here is Patriot guarantees.
07:33So they may present a contract that says, oh, well, Witherspoon's 4-132.
07:37We're going to give you 4-138, and therefore you're the highest-paid guy.
07:42But then when you look at the actual money, like Witherspoon's getting $59 million
07:45in the first two years, that's not something the Patriots have ever wanted to do.
07:49They made Tom Brady, you know, sing for his supper.
07:53So they've always had this habit.
07:54People tried to attach that to Belichick, but I think that's also how ownership feels.
07:59And so you're sort of in a similar situation now where the player's saying,
08:02well, this is the market, and I'm the next guy up,
08:05so I should be the guy that takes the lead here.
08:07And they're saying, well, we'll give you this money, but you've got to be on the roster
08:11the third day of the league year in year three to get this $30 million,
08:14and you've got to do this, and you've got to play this many games.
08:17And he's like, well, they just gave him $59 million straight up.
08:21And that's kind of, I think, where he wants to be in that $60, $61, $62 million range
08:26in the first two years.
08:27And who could blame a guy for wanting to be in the $61 million range, really, right, Bulldog?
08:32Would you –
08:32If I deserved it, I would want to be there too.
08:34If you deserved it.
08:35I will only accept fair offers on this player.
08:38I'm a big – we have this – and this is the way that Patriot fans sort of grew up
08:45with Belichick and the ownership, always selling them on the salary cap management,
08:49which I think is bunk, and I think it's been proven to be bunk.
08:53And there are a lot of people that are celebrating, well, their owners shouldn't –
08:56they won championships this other way.
08:58And it's like they won championships because they had Tom Brady.
09:02I think we kind of learned that.
09:03Like, yeah, Bill Belichick was awesome too, and there were some great players here.
09:06But the thing that made that go was the number 12, the guy that played quarterback for you.
09:12So – and just as a reminder to people who are cheering on the owner right now,
09:16hoping that he defeats – the billionaire owner defeats the millionaire quarterback.
09:20Right.
09:20They're going to be doing this dance with Drake May next year.
09:23And if people just think it's going to go easy with Drake May,
09:26even if he has another awesome year, I would tell you history tells you it's not going to be
09:31because it never was for Tom Brady.
09:33I don't know why it would be for Drake May.
09:35It's always incredible to me that the fans mostly take the side of the team in these things.
09:41The player becomes the villain.
09:43It – yeah.
09:44It's really – it's a big subject.
09:47You know?
09:47Like, we all played sports.
09:51So, professional athletes, really, they're not doing anything that special because we could do it.
09:55Right.
09:56We don't understand how billionaires made their money.
09:58We never even thought of a way.
10:00It's really interesting.
10:02The Patriots, as you said, Mike, won championships because of Tom Brady.
10:05And, of course, because when other teams were kicking field goals,
10:09they did that thing where they turned the video around.
10:12Which they never did when they were kicking field goals.
10:15Well, we always knew that they – we knew that they did everything in their powers under Bill Belichick
10:21and that regime to skirt the rules, shall we say.
10:26And this would just be another example of, you know, we found a loophole or we can do this thing
10:32and it's not technically illegal, so we're going to do it.
10:35At the same time.
10:36That's pretty telling, yes.
10:38At the same time.
10:39I think we talked about – I feel like I noticed that once.
10:42But, anyway, I mean, I'm not sure of that.
10:44At the same time when I saw that last night from Ryan Paganetti, I was both really angry.
10:50And impressed.
10:51And like, I'm impressed.
10:52I mean, I'm not even sure that's cheating.
10:54Is that in writing anywhere that you can't invert the scoreboard picture?
10:58Like, I mean –
11:00It's the Ron Burgundy.
11:01I'm not mad.
11:02I'm impressed.
11:03I think the dog pooped in the refrigerator and ate a whole wheel of cheese.
11:06I'm not – this is the same thing.
11:08I'm not surprised.
11:08I'm not surprised that they found a way.
11:11And it's, you know, oh, well, tell me.
11:12Look, the fact of the matter is they thought it played an advantage
11:15because they didn't play the same video when their kicker was kicking.
11:18So, like, oh, it's just for the stadium.
11:20And then, no, the video wasn't up when their kickers were kicking.
11:23It was only when the opposing kickers were kicking.
11:25So, they obviously thought there was something to it.
11:28I mean, I think a lot of teams do stuff like that, whether that's noise-related.
11:32I've always had a theory that Pittsburgh has never missed a field goal in its own stadium,
11:36but no one from another team has ever made one.
11:39I don't know how they pulled that off.
11:40I saw a tweet before we got started today from Gano, maybe, former kicker.
11:46Graham Gano.
11:47Said, like, I don't remember which stadium he said it was,
11:49but they used to put, like, facing him on the Jumbotron when he was lining up for a kick.
11:54Just his entire face was on the Jumbotron.
11:57Yeah.
11:58So, when it's the Jumbotron –
11:59That was scary.
12:00Right.
12:01When it's the Jumbotron, like, that's, quote, cheating.
12:04When it's Cameron Indoor and the 500 kids behind the basketball hoop have different signs and whatever.
12:10But, hey, it's just kids being kids.
12:12I mean, that's not –
12:13Yep.
12:14I don't know.
12:14I feel like Belichick always had, I don't know, an excuse.
12:19Like, he didn't often have to – or he chose not to, like, explain these kinds of things.
12:24One time I heard him talking about the Spygate stuff, and he talked about how John Madden used to do
12:30it as a coach.
12:31And then there was a clip of Madden as an announcer saying that in a game – I think it
12:36was in Washington.
12:36He was like, yeah, we used to do that.
12:38Take signs from the other – not to take us all into the distant past, Mike.
12:41You've probably been exhausted about that subject for, like, decades at this point.
12:46But, you know, I think he probably always had a butt.
12:49You know, like, well, no, this is why – this is literally why it's okay.
12:54Yeah, but the Spygate thing, so it's, like, always taking it to the nth degree, right?
12:58Like, we heard plenty of people say after the fact, like, oh, well, we would shoot video of the opposing
13:03team's signals.
13:04Like, you're looking for any edge.
13:06But the fact of the matter is he had them in NFL, whatever, media gear and had their – or
13:13had them as the –
13:14disguised as the Kraft Sports Production Group, which is the in-house production group for the Patriots.
13:19Like, it was always, like, the next level.
13:21There was more deception there.
13:22It went to here.
13:24Yeah, it went to here, and we're going to just – we're going to keep going and pushing over the
13:28line
13:28or pushing the line and seeing if someone's ever going to stop.
13:32Then once we win, what are you going to do about it?
13:35Right.
13:36Mike Giardi with us.
13:37How's it going with A.J. Brown, Mike?
13:39I asked thinking about the Kayshawn booty trade as well.
13:43To me – and maybe this is another one where there was a personality conflict that I don't know about.
13:47I don't know.
13:48But to me, that seemed a little bit nervy for the Patriots with a team that had not had answers
13:56at wide receiver a year ago.
13:57They go and get Brown and Romeo Dobbs.
13:59But this was a useful player.
14:01They have others maybe you'd say are on kind of the same level.
14:04I don't know.
14:05What do you think of how things have played out there?
14:09Yeah, so that was interesting, but I've been reporting for five months now basically since March that he wanted to
14:14go
14:15and that they were okay letting him go.
14:17They like Kyle Williams, who's their third-round pick from a year ago.
14:20He's had a productive preseason for whatever that's worth, three touchdowns in three games.
14:26Vrabel said after the trade the first time we talked to him, he's like, you know,
14:29there was a real chance he was going to be inactive on game days, booty, because he doesn't play special
14:33teams.
14:33And people went crazy over that.
14:35And I'm like, no, do the math.
14:36This is part of the equation.
14:38They want to play Kyle Williams more.
14:40But they acquired A.J. Brown and Romeo Dobbs.
14:43A.J. Brown is not going to play 54% of the snaps like Stephon Diggs did last year.
14:48He's going to play significantly more than that if he's healthy.
14:50Ditto for Romeo Dobbs.
14:52So you're just taking away the number of snaps for this player in Williams that they like and they want
14:58to develop.
14:59Well, the best way to develop them is to at least get them some run on the field.
15:03So who's going to get those 10, 12, 15 snaps, whatever it is, a game?
15:06And is it going to be Keyshawn Booty, who they're not going to resign at the end of the year
15:09as he heads into free agency?
15:11Or is it going to be Kyle Williams?
15:12And so the return wasn't great, but the league told you that the league had been telling you for five
15:18months that you weren't going to get anything for this player.
15:20And I don't know if the league is mis-evaluating the player.
15:27I like the player, but I don't think he's anything more than a, you know, maybe he's a three on
15:32a good team.
15:34You know, is he a four or five on a championship caliber team?
15:39Obviously, Houston's going to have to get more from him based on the number two being down for the season.
15:43But, like, that's sort of the equation there.
15:46They also like this kid, Efton Chisholm, who's more of a slot player.
15:50Same thing.
15:50I think Chisholm and Williams are going to be running back kicks for him.
15:53So there was a lot that went into it.
15:55But in the end, it was almost like this was predestined, that he wasn't going to be here no matter
16:01what he did.
16:01And he was having a pretty decent summer, too, but they were dying to get rid of him, and he
16:07was dying to go.
16:08And that's the way it played.
16:10Are we steady as she goes running back-wise?
16:13Is Stevenson still 1A, Henderson 1B, if that's the right way to classify them?
16:19I would say Stevenson is the no question, no doubt.
16:22He is the number one.
16:23It has been a quiet, almost too quiet summer from Trevion Henderson.
16:28And now he's dealing with a foot injury that happened in practice last week on some slippery turf.
16:33He happened to be there when it happened.
16:35In a moment, it didn't look like much, but he ended up exiting practice, and he hasn't practiced since.
16:40It's not obviously something they're going to put him on IR for, but it is putting into question maybe is
16:46he even going to be ready for game one.
16:47You know, they didn't practice today, so we'll see them again tomorrow and maybe get a better sense of how
16:52he's feeling.
16:53I saw him in the locker room, and, you know, he's always smiling, so he had a happy face on.
16:57But we'll see.
16:58I just think Stevenson's had an awesome camp, and I think you look at the going into that environment
17:03and the way Seattle can manipulate your protection plan to get after the quarterback,
17:09I just have a feeling that Ramondre's going to be out there, and then Trevion, even if Trevion's healthy.
17:16So the 49ers are leaving for Australia today for the game next Thursday in Australia.
17:23The Rams are, like, going in and out.
17:25They're pulling the Rex Ryan move, where he would go out west, Mike, and just, like, get off the plane,
17:31play the game, get back on the plane.
17:33What are the Patriots doing?
17:34And isn't it interesting that in this day and age you have two teams, like the 49ers and the Rams,
17:40who have such different analyses of how best to get the most out of their players in this situation?
17:47That's a crazy thing, right?
17:49Like, you know, normally, at least I always thought, like, the best thing to do is to get out there
17:54and get yourself acclimated.
17:55And if you can take more time, you do it.
17:57Obviously, when you're talking about, like, at a place of altitude, that takes a lot longer.
18:01I've seen the studies on it.
18:03It's more like you've got to be out there for, like, two weeks to get, like, the full dose of
18:07the altitude and not affect you.
18:08So, you know, obviously you can't do that during a regular season for football, but this is stark contrast.
18:13You know, one research team is telling them this is the way you've got to do it.
18:17You've got to be there for this amount of time.
18:19The other is saying, let's get on a plane.
18:21Let's get there.
18:22As you said, let's play the game.
18:23Let's go home.
18:24I'm fascinated to see how it works because I think we can all agree they're both really good teams.
18:29Maybe L.A. is the better team, obviously, based on when they've done this offseason.
18:33But, like, those are two good teams, and they've been two good programs for multiple years.
18:37Patriots are going to travel.
18:39They're practicing here on Monday, and then they're going to fly out.
18:43So they'll be there all of Tuesday.
18:45And then, obviously, you know, Wednesday is a night game or a late afternoon game in Seattle.
18:51No known reason why I'm asking, but do you think Eli Raritan will be active week one and maybe catch,
18:55say, four passes for 35 yards?
18:58I wonder why.
19:00He's a big Notre Dame fan.
19:01Yeah, that's it.
19:02He will be active for sure.
19:05I don't know about his touches.
19:06Again, I think that's a weird spot for some of these younger players.
19:10Like, I mean, that place is going to be nuts.
19:12All hopped up on all kinds of stuff, you know, with the banner raising.
19:16And I think Soundgarden is playing at halftime or pregame or something.
19:20There's all kinds of stuff going on there.
19:22It's, like, right in the Seattle grunge wheelhouse.
19:25That's my wheelhouse.
19:27But, yeah, I don't know that I would take the overs on those numbers that you just gave me.
19:34So, I'm a little jealous here.
19:36Yes.
19:38Soundgarden, obviously, with some – who is singing?
19:40I know I read –
19:42For them?
19:42Yeah.
19:43Without Chris Cornell?
19:43Without Chris Cornell.
19:44So, I don't know that.
19:45I don't know if you know that, Mike.
19:47I believe it is Taylor Momsen, who – I think that's how she says her name – who was
19:53the Cindy Lou Who in the updated making of The Grinch and is now, like, a hard rocker
19:59who sang at their Hall of Fame induction.
20:03She was the lead singer for that for them.
20:05How cool that you knew this.
20:07I mean, you brought up Soundgarden, but even knew this is tremendous.
20:10Look, there are a few things outside of football and family that I am knowledgeable in.
20:16That grunge era is – I've read numerous books, and I still act like it's 1992.
20:23Who should we know about from that era that isn't as famous as, like, the names that everybody
20:28knows, Pearl Jam Nirvana?
20:29Like, who is somebody that, as a fan, you know of as, like, sneaky good?
20:33I want you to say Mudhoney's so bad here, Mike.
20:36You took the words right out of my mouth.
20:39Mudhoney is right at the tippity top.
20:42Obviously, people – Mother Love Bone, which is sort of the precursor to Pearl Jam, but
20:46Andrew Wood was their singer, and he tragically was one of those guys that drugs got the better
20:50of him, and he died of drugs.
20:52But, like, he was an incredible showman, and a couple members of Pearl Jam were in
20:57that band with him.
20:58And, yeah, there's – in fact, the Mother Love Bone debut album, I believe, is a double
21:04album that is worth – it's worth buying.
21:07Very good.
21:08We have one Republic playing at halftime at the Bills' home opener.
21:13That's not – that's not what I'm looking for.
21:15That's not grunge.
21:16Yeah, that's not – yeah, no.
21:18Some – you know, dare I say it?
21:21Patriots did Flo Rida one year, and I was like, what are we doing?
21:25What are we doing?
21:27Well, enjoy Seattle.
21:30The kids liked it, so they did it.
21:31Right.
21:32I mean, I don't think the gum wall is a must-see, but people like going there in Seattle if
21:36you
21:36happen to – by the fish market if you happen to be able to wander a little bit.
21:39Uh.
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