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اوجگیری راستافراطی؛ مقصر کیست؟ رویارویی نمایندگان اروپا در برنامه «رینگ»
همه نگاهها به انتخابات ایالت کوچک زاکسن-آنهالت در شرق آلمان دوخته شده است؛ احتمال اکثریت مطلق راست افراطی میتواند سیاست آلمان و اروپا را به لرزه اندازد. آغاز بحرانی تازه؟
لب بیشتر : http://parsi.euronews.com/2026/09/04/aoggiri-rastafrati-mksr-kist-roiaroii-nmaindgan-aropa-dr-brnamh-ring
مشترک شوید: یورونیوز به یازده زبان دیگر در دسترس شماست
همه نگاهها به انتخابات ایالت کوچک زاکسن-آنهالت در شرق آلمان دوخته شده است؛ احتمال اکثریت مطلق راست افراطی میتواند سیاست آلمان و اروپا را به لرزه اندازد. آغاز بحرانی تازه؟
لب بیشتر : http://parsi.euronews.com/2026/09/04/aoggiri-rastafrati-mksr-kist-roiaroii-nmaindgan-aropa-dr-brnamh-ring
مشترک شوید: یورونیوز به یازده زبان دیگر در دسترس شماست
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00:08Hello and welcome to The Ring, Euronews' weekly debate show broadcasting from the European
00:14Parliament in Brussels. I'm Stefan Grobe. On The Ring, debaters go face-to-face on some of
00:20the biggest political issues facing the EU. Today, we want to talk about the state election
00:26in East Germany that has the potential to shake up German politics and could affect Europe
00:32and the wider world. Luis Albertus tells you why all eyes are suddenly on Saxony-Anhalt.
00:42Saxony-Anhalt is a small state in eastern Germany, but on Sunday it could become the center of
00:47a political earthquake. The AfD party is polling at more than 40%, far ahead of Friedrich Merz's
00:54Christian Democrats. Such a strong result could give the far right a path to governing a German
01:00state for the first time in the post-war era. That would shatter one of the most important
01:05political taboos in modern Germany and send a powerful signal to Europe. A stronger AfD would
01:11mean a tougher battle over migration, climate policy and support for Ukraine, and potentially
01:17a more difficult Germany for the EU to rely on at a time when Europe is already facing
01:22enormous geopolitical pressure.
01:24So is Saxony-Anhalt simply expressing frustration with the political establishment? Or are we
01:30about to witness a turning point for Germany, and potentially for Europe?
01:36So a lot to unpack here for our contenders, and here they are.
01:42Hildegard Bentele, a German MEP from the Central Right European People's Party. In the European
01:47Parliament, she is a Vice Chair of the Committee on Development and a member of the Committee
01:51on Industry, Research and Energy. She also chairs a delegation for relations with Israel.
01:55She says, as Christian Democrats, we are convinced that the only way to counter the rise of the
02:00far right in Saxony-Anhalt, in Germany and across Europe, is listening closely to people,
02:05offering realistic solutions and presenting, based on our values, an optimistic vision for
02:10the future. Jean-Marc Germain, a French MEP from the Socialists and Democrats. An economist
02:16by training, he is a former advisor to former Prime Minister of France, Lionel Jospin, and
02:21one of the main figures within the Socialists and Democrats group in the European Parliament.
02:25He said, as long as Europe fails to build economic sovereignty, the far right will thrive in the
02:30regions devastated by globalization and deindustrialization.
02:35So, let me welcome to the Ring Hildegard Bentele and Jean-Marc Germain. Thank you for coming.
02:41Great to have you here. Good to see you both. The aim of the Ring is to offer our viewers
02:48a glimpse at European Parliament debates, so you should feel right at home. Are you ready?
02:53I'm ready. Great. So, let me start with you, Hildegard. You're from Germany, and I want to start
03:00with the central dilemma here. Why is the political center losing voters for years now?
03:08Because we are in a difficult general, difficult political situation, geopolitically, also economically,
03:16the situation in Germany is difficult. For the last seven years, we didn't have a growth
03:21in the German economy, so people are very concerned about jobs, also about the geopolitical risks.
03:28We have a war at our borders, so people feel insecure. And so, we have to resolve concrete
03:38political questions, also internal questions with regard to reforms of our social system, of our health
03:44system, and of course, we have to tackle migration, which has become a bigger problem since 2015.
03:49That all sounds familiar when I look to France, Jean-Marc. No political growth, economic problems, job insecurity,
03:58healthcare issues, etc. So, what's the view from France?
04:03I think that exactly the same things are driving the rise of the far-rights. There are a lot of
04:09reasons, but if I may point just one
04:12that I think is key is the industrialization. If you compare the scores of the far-rights at the last
04:22national elections,
04:23or kind of national elections, which was the European elections, the score of the far-rights in France is clearly
04:31proportional to the industrialization. For example, the far-right is at 42%, exactly as the situation of the pool in
04:43Saxonian-Saxonian-Halt in Hauts-de-France. So, for me, the solution is not to say to people you're wrong,
04:52to look at
04:53far-rights, but to try to solve their issue. And for me, the biggest challenge of Europe, national government, but
05:02also
05:03European Union is trying to make Europe a strong and sovereign economy.
05:11I mean, if you look at the parties of the political centers, who have for decades in the post-war
05:16era,
05:17guaranteed political stability, economic prosperity, etc., etc., and all of a sudden, there is trust that is lacking.
05:26I wonder whether this is rather the center-left or the center-right who is responsible for this.
05:35Hildegard, what do you think?
05:36Well, I would not finger-point at one or the other. We need each other, and I think that's the
05:43central message, at least for
05:44Germany, because we are far away from time, so when we had absolute maturity, that was the case-only ones
05:50with
05:51the other now. So, if we are used to go into coalitions, I know France is completely different, but this
05:56is why we are
05:56still, you know, governing, and we are currently in a coalition with the Social Democrats, like we have
06:03been for many times, and we have a very comprehensive reform package ahead of us, which we are going to
06:09tackle now. And I wish the same would happen in France, but I have to admit that the French conservatives
06:15are the weaker part. Right. There's no spirit of collaboration and coalition in France, right? Why is
06:22that so? I think that, first, the right in France has turned to be kind of close to the far
06:32-right,
06:32and is, as it was said, decreasing. So, even if we would try to make a coalition with the right,
06:41it doesn't
06:41make the numbers to win the election. Second is, for me, that maybe we made a center-left and center
06:50-right,
06:50a common mistake in the 90s, 20s, is that we thought that globalization would bring a better life in
07:01Europe, and it turns that it's not the case, because globalization works when there is cooperation,
07:09but now there is competition, and even worse. And it's the reason I was speaking of the industrializations,
07:17that we lose control of our economies. And for us, and maybe as socialists and social
07:25democrats, because our way of thinking is more eager to take control of the economy, we are maybe in
07:35advance, not in the pool, but still in the way of thinking. And I think that the big job to
07:41do for the
07:41center-right is to admit that globalization is not working, and that Europe has to develop a strong
07:49industry to use tools to control the economy, and not to go, as we do now, still, into a race
08:01of trade
08:01agreement and free trade. Bringing the famous firewall, right? So, the design by the parties of the center
08:11to get together to prevent the far-right or far-left from taking over and coming into power. Is this
08:21still
08:21a workable solution, or if not, what happens if the firewall crumbles? Well, first of all, I would
08:32wish that there is a firewall against both extremes. We have it against right now, but it's not the case
08:38with our partners. There is no socialist firewall to the far-left, which is also very radical,
08:44anti-Semite, anti-European, anti-NATO, anti-military support of Ukraine. So, I think, I mean,
08:50for us, it's a very principled stance. It's not a political strategy, but, you know, the far-right
08:55contradicts our fundamental values, our policy choices. Like, as I said, we are pro-European,
09:01we are anti-Russia. We are pro-democracy. We have a clear stance on our Nazi path. So,
09:09and they want to destroy us. So, their main goal is to destroy us. So, why? So, it's a very
09:14principled
09:14stance. But our political strategy is, of course, to combat the party politically with our better
09:20arguments, with our better solutions. But it's a principled stance, and I think it's a good stance.
09:26Jean-Marc, what's the French position here? I mean, are we at a stage now where this is all obsolete?
09:32No, for sure not. And in France, there is a part of the rights that made deals with the far
09:40-rights,
09:41but still, main parties, right-wing parties and center-right party, still apply the firewall.
09:48But we have to be very clear. It's not a firewall against people. We don't deny what they say,
09:55the problems that they see. It's about, one, the fact that the far-right party taking the power in
10:02Europe would be a disaster. And we saw what happened with Urban. We saw what happened with the peace in
10:10Poland. We know that it starts with the end of rule of law in those countries, the end of
10:17fundamental liberties. And then the economic problems arise, because those parties want to
10:23leave Europe, basically, even if they don't say. So, what we have to do is to solve the issue of
10:30people.
10:31And, of course, we all want to do it. But my main message, if we don't tackle the issue of
10:40globalization and all the problems that arise, less jobs. But if there are less jobs, there is less
10:47money for local authorities, so less public services, less hospitals, and people feel abandoned. And we have to
10:54solve that. I also like to underline that, you know, the far-left also poses a lot of problems.
11:01I mean, in France, we've got to the disastrous financial situation of France, highly indebted.
11:06So, Mr. Mélenchon proposes just to cancel the debt or the interest. You know, I mean, it's crazy.
11:11So, and I can say it for Berlin, you know, the far-left, who might, you know, win the the
11:17mayorship
11:17in Berlin in three weeks' time, is openly anti-Semitic, wants to nationalize. And so, I mean,
11:25these are not solutions we we can have at the European regional and national level. So, we should,
11:32you know, be very careful on both sides. So, I would be happy, you know, to that we talk very
11:39concretely about firewalls against agreements and a better cooperation in the center. Because,
11:45unfortunately, Jean-Marc was not very clear about it. I think it should even the question to France,
11:49how much you can better cooperate on pension reforms, which are essential for France, which
11:54cannot be advanced. Because, you know, single group interests prevail over the common interests
12:00and over the European interests. And then you attacked trade agreements. I mean, trade agreements
12:05are the co-competence of the European Union. If you undermine it with the extremes and put a
12:11nationalist stance before it, this is not helpful. Points well taken. I'm sure we come back to this
12:16issue. But let me stop you there, as we're just getting warmed up. And it's now time for gloves off.
12:27Now we want viewers to get a real flavor of the European Parliament
12:30chamber, where members ask each other questions. So, let's get started. And Hildegard,
12:36I want to start with you. Your first question to Jean-Marc. Yeah. Jean-Marc, I mean,
12:39we are at halftime in the European Parliament. And I think there is the need to renew our cooperation
12:45and the platform, what we used to have, which can be better activated. I think because we have
12:51challenges ahead of us with regard to the security challenge, economic challenge, as you said,
12:56migration again. So, what is your personal commitment to this cooperation between the center-right,
13:04which is us, Christian Democrats, and the social Democrats, and of course, the Liberals?
13:08Well, I'm ready to do it. And even more than that, I would wish that the rights
13:16in this house will stop to pick and choose the far-right when it's needed for migration,
13:23for example, five, and the center-left when the far-right is not there. So, really, if we can do
13:31it,
13:32not only five-by-five, but really with a direction that we want to follow together would be really
13:41important. But again, we have to decide what we want to do together. Put it in practice. Now,
13:50my question, and sorry, maybe to repeat, but I think that we have to have simple ideas in politics is
13:57that
13:59when CDU, your party, would understand that the industrialization and social decline are fueling
14:07AFD, and that your agenda of globalization is only making it stronger?
14:17Well, I mean, I think there's a difference. We don't have an agenda of globalization,
14:21but we have an agenda of open markets, that's for sure. And we have one difference that the trade
14:26agreements, which I maybe heard you oppose in general, which we strongly support, because it gives a lot of
14:32chances can be put in figures, the chances for our European industry with the Mercosur, with the
14:38Vietnamese, Australian, whatever. I mean, this is just a benefit. If you look at the trade agreement with
14:43Canada, which is even beneficial for French farmers, but you have not yet taken the, you know, serious
14:49stance, and to defend it back home, I don't understand. I think we should be more serious about that.
14:54This is a clear benefit. I mean, I'm in favor of, you know, supporting more our industry, because we need
15:01support, because there's unfair competition. I fully agree. But we have limited resources.
15:06You talked about the budget. The budget will not be bigger. It might be smaller. I think that's the
15:11realistic, that's the realistic perspective. And in France, your resources are limited to support
15:19industry by money. So we need to do it through regulation. And here we need to take bold steps,
15:26and we only cooperate. We would always go first for the support for social Democrats. But on crucial
15:32files like migration, this is the reason why the far right has risen so much, because we haven't
15:38solved the migration fail for years, because we lack support of the social Democrats. And we will also,
15:44if we continue to lack support for economic measures, which help our industry,
15:48we... It's our responsibility to do it together.
15:52All right. Thanks for this interesting...
15:53Maybe a follow-up question, just very shortly.
15:55Very shortly.
15:56Because I'm in charge of the budget in this House for the Social Democrats, and your Chancellor
16:02wants to reduce by 400 million the commission proposal. How do you want to re-industrialize
16:08without money at European level?
16:10Well, it's not all about money. This is what I said. We have limited resources. We have to invest our
16:15money
16:16into our defense, as we know. We have new tasks which we didn't perceive at that moment, but they are
16:22priorities. We have to set priorities. This is why we reform our pension system, our health care, because
16:29they are too costly. We cannot afford this anymore. We have to set priorities. But I'm with you to set
16:34priorities to revive our industry.
16:37All right. Now, we'll be... That's a very tricky issue here. We'll be following the budgetary debates,
16:42of course, until the end of the year. Now, we have heard the views from our
16:46guest. It's time now to hear from a new voice.
16:53I would like to bring in German Chancellor Friedrich Merz, who is trying to stave off an
16:57AFD victory by warning against possible economic consequences. During the campaign a couple of
17:04days ago, he said this, and I quote,
17:07I cannot imagine international investors still showing up for a groundbreaking ceremony with an AFD
17:14state premier to establish new plans or set up new businesses in Saxony-Anhalt. Saxony-Anhalt must not
17:22become an experimental field for angry citizens. Now, will this convince the 40 plus minus percent of
17:32voters who are angry? Hildegard?
17:35Well, I think, you know, partly the concerns of citizens in Saxony-Anhalt are economic. It's about
17:41jobs. It's about rural areas which have been abandoned. That's true. This is why we need investments.
17:46That's a point that... Absolutely. Now this is clear. But we have another, I think,
17:49part which we also should take more into consideration. You know, I know Sven Schulze very well. He used to
17:55be a
17:55former colleague here in the parliament who is, you know, the top candidate of CDU. And he says he never
17:59talked so much about culture, media, identity before. And I think this is a very crucial point.
18:05We have to tackle much more, you know, to talk about values, about, you know, the fears. Because
18:11the far right is inciting fear. It's talking about, you know, catastrophic scenarios, painting the world
18:19inciting fear. Jean-Marc, there's a similar situation in France with the far right maybe taking over next
18:27year. Is the same risk present in France? Will investors, foreign investors, stay away from France
18:37if there is a far right president? Yes, for sure. But it's not that... Because it's true, what the
18:47councilor is saying, that it will convince people. So really people first turn to the far right because
18:56they think that politicians don't have any solutions. So we have to be convincing about our solution.
19:04That's why I think that Europe is a convincing solution. And if AFD or National Front or Rassemblement
19:13France would take the power, their first thing is to go out of Europe, the very institution that can
19:21solve, for example, the industrialization problem. So we have to say in Germany or in France, we are going
19:28to build new cars here in Saxony and Alt. But how are we going to do? We are going to
19:35make the European
19:36preference a reality. And I think it's really key. We have to say to people what will happen and we
19:43have
19:43to raise credible solutions. All right. Let's take a break here on The Ring. We'll be back with more.
19:51After this, don't go away.
20:02Welcome back to The Ring, Euronews' weekly debate show. I'm Stéphane Grobe and I'm joined by Jean-Marc
20:08Germain from the Socialists and Democrats from France and Hildegard Bentele from the European
20:13People's Party from Germany. At this point, let's take a look at the topics that move voters in Saxony
20:20and Health. So these are surveys among the electorate in Saxony and Health. And we see here
20:26the top issue and 39 percent is the economy, jobs and wages, followed by infrastructure, depopulation,
20:34aging communities and only then migration and asylum with 23 percent, closely followed by education,
20:43schools, daycare, a very important topic during the campaign with 22 percent and 11 percent of voters
20:49say health care. Yet migration has been the most important battleground in the public debate,
20:58yet the economy and jobs are higher on the agenda. Why this disconnect? And Saxony-Anhalt,
21:04if I may say, has one of the lowest rates of foreigners in Germany, half of the national average. So
21:11why should people bother? Because it's the same story every time in the history. When the cake is
21:19shrinking, the nationalists say, okay, it's for German first or for French first or whatever country.
21:28So it's very easy to use this argument, but it's false. For example, your poll is saying that one
21:35issue is depopulation. And how do you make population grow again? And also, how do you provide
21:43the companies with workers? It's also by migrations. Second thing is also that the polls reflect
21:52some of the fake news in the public debate. So whatever Merz will do at German level or whatever the
22:00two of us will do at European level, maybe people don't see it because it's completely
22:07really deformed and transformed by social network. So the reality of and the possibility of public
22:16politicians to be heard by people is really an issue. That's why we have to tackle the issue of fake
22:24news of also foreign interference. And it's really strong in Germany with Russian trying to bend the
22:32election. It's really important. Sachsen-Anhalt in East Germany has lost about one third of its
22:37population since German unification. That also means that they need, you know, more people,
22:44more input. They need skills from maybe a foreigner. So why is this such a, at times, vicious debate?
22:53Well, the far right is saying we don't need more people. You know, the German population could shrink.
22:58There's not a problem. Or we would prefer, you know, German women to give birth to more kids.
23:03Well, that would be an economic problem in the future, right?
23:05This is also what Orban policy was, you know, to insight, you know, Germans to get more kids,
23:10which is a point which we should consider, you know, to be, to make a more family-friendly policy.
23:15I think this is, you know, also our task as centrist parties. But of course, I mean,
23:21this is why we need to give serious answers to the, you know, economic industrial challenges of the
23:26people to democracy. And, you know, the far right only puts everything that's a scapegoat,
23:31you know, the migrant, that's a scapegoat. But I want to say one thing. Why migration is so high
23:37on the agenda? You know, it's not the normal general migrant, but it's, we have, we had attacks in
23:43Germany often by refugees, which didn't have a right to stay still in Germany. So, and this happened
23:50more and more often. I saw it in Berlin, like, you know, three weeks ago at Pride. So, there is
23:57a
23:57real, you know, feeling of insecurity. And this affects not only, you know, far right voters, this
24:04affects the whole German population. I think it's the same in France, that people don't feel secure
24:08anymore. And this is why we have to tackle the issue of migration and to deal with illegal migration,
24:15to control better who comes to our countries, and what kind of values those who came here and who
24:21stayed here, you know, present. Because we have a real problem of parallel societies, of people,
24:27mainly from Islamistic background, who do not embrace at all our values, equality of men and women,
24:34and so on. Do you agree with her? Where I don't agree is to put an equal thing or we,
24:39that's not exactly
24:40what you did, but that's what the far right is doing between insecurity and immigration. There is no
24:47link at all. There is a link, of course, with poverty, because when people have nothing, there is
24:53small insecurity related to that, but there is no no link. And maybe in France, what is different that
25:00is that integration is still working a little bit, even if we have issues. So, what we will wear in
25:09the
25:09next election is to say to young people coming from abroad and being now French, that you are
25:21France, with the value of France. And that's a key for my party, but I guess also for you,
25:28for people coming from abroad, from generation, to be part, to feel part of the nation.
25:36Okay, now it's time to move on to our fifth and final round.
25:44As always, we're doing something different now. I'm going to ask you a set of questions,
25:51and you can only answer with a yes or no. Could this election in Saxony-Anhalt change
26:00Europe's political balance? No, not at all. And my bet is that the far right will not win.
26:07Okay. No.
26:08So, at the end of the day, it's not important. It's a regional phenomenon.
26:11Okay. Is the lesson of Saxony-Anhalt that mainstream parties have failed to address voters' fears of
26:18migration, security, and economic decline? Yes.
26:23Can Germany simultaneously reduce immigration and solve its demographic and labor force problems?
26:31We have to, and we are committed to. No. No. Okay. For sure, no. I mean,
26:37if you have less population, you cannot have more industry. You cannot finance the social security
26:45system. You will have a different industry. The system will collapse. No. You will have artificial
26:52intelligence. You will have different jobs, maybe with less people. Okay. Can you defeat the far
26:56right without adopting some of its policies? For sure, and we will. Yes. But it doesn't mean that we
27:03don't have to solve problems of people. Exactly. The far right doesn't offer really answers. They just want
27:10to go back to times which will never come back. So, no. We don't adapt their ideas. We stick to
27:17our ideas.
27:17Wonderful conclusion. Thank you very much. And that final answer brings us to the end of this edition
27:22of The Ring. Thanks again to Jean-Marc Germain and Hildegard Bentele for a lively conversation here
27:27from the European Parliament. Thanks to our audience at home. If you like, you can continue the conversation by
27:33sending us your comments to thering at euronews.com. That's it for today. I'm Stefan Grobe.
27:39Take care and see you soon here on Euronews.
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