- 1 week ago
Following a historic electoral defeat, questions about internal governance, candidate selection and constituency disputes have intensified.
But are these simply internal party problems — or symptoms of a much deeper crisis within one of Trinidad and Tobago's oldest political institutions?
And what does the PNM need to do if it is to rebuild trust, redefine its leadership and remain relevant to a changing electorate?
we go Beyond the Headlines with development diplomat, strategic adviser, journalist and public affairs commentator Pearce Robinson.
But are these simply internal party problems — or symptoms of a much deeper crisis within one of Trinidad and Tobago's oldest political institutions?
And what does the PNM need to do if it is to rebuild trust, redefine its leadership and remain relevant to a changing electorate?
we go Beyond the Headlines with development diplomat, strategic adviser, journalist and public affairs commentator Pearce Robinson.
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NewsTranscript
00:13tonight we go beyond the headlines beyond the personality and examine the condition of the
00:19people's national movement the party is navigating the aftermath of an historic electoral defeat
00:26while also confronting questions about internal democracy constituency representation candidate
00:32selection and accountability but beneath those individual controversies are much bigger questions
00:39joining us tonight is Pierce Robinson a development diplomat strategic advisor journalist public
00:46affairs commentator whose work has taken him across international policy and development
00:52including engagements involving the United Nations the Commonwealth and other multilateral
00:58institutions he's also been closely examining developments within the PNM and implications for
01:05the party's future Pierce Robinson welcome to be on the headlines thank you so let's start with the big
01:12picture when you look at where the PNM is today particularly after its electoral defeat what do
01:19you believe is the fundamental problem the party is confronting I think um well good evening for
01:27not to be one thank you for welcoming into your homes um I think when I step back and look
01:33at everything
01:33together my conclusion is that the PNM is on trial I do not use that phrase you know to suggest
01:42that
01:42there's some sort of death sentence or anything like that but a trial is a test it's a test of
01:47evidence
01:48accountability conduct conduct and institutional discipline and ultimately it's whether an organization has
01:58the capacity to correct itself is so really I was about to ask Pierce is this uh primarily a leadership
02:08problem an
02:09organizational problem or something deeper yeah I well I think when we look at um the the
02:17the electorate decision um in 2020 the party would have received roughly around 322,000 votes so 122 uh seats
02:28in 2025 that would have fallen significantly down to 13 seats right um roughly 224,000 so just under 100
02:38,000
02:38that's a significant loss of just over 30 percent of the national vote right that's not just a routine um
02:45loss
02:45that is a withdrawal of confidence now that's not to say the PNM has been there before right um it's
02:52come back from 33-3 and it's a long-standing institution but I don't think it's necessarily just a leadership
03:00problem or merely an organizational problem of actually I think actually it is a deeper it's a
03:09question of institutional credibility does the party still listen to its members does its internal systems
03:16retain confidence does it understand what the electorate was communicating and is it prepared to
03:24change when the evidence tells it that something has gone wrong that's the fundamental question here
03:30right and so oftentimes we hear you know politicians and folks in the PNM saying okay well the reason is
03:37our
03:37supporters stay at home as an answer that ends the inquiry right but if people who traditionally
03:44support you decide that they cannot bring themselves to vote for you that itself is evidence that that that
03:52that is that is the responsible question right is why is that you know relationship between the
03:59institutions and the people deteriorating to that to that point now PNM is a 70 year old institution
04:07right and that kind of history is is not new right it's not to say that it is insulated from
04:14criticism
04:15but they must retain that capacity to listen correct themselves and renew now Pace you've been describing
04:21what's happening inside the PNM as much more than ordinary political infighting what is the evidence
04:28that this is actually a systemic governance failure within the body yes well you ask a very important
04:36question um ultimately and i've been identifying this on my page but i'm seeing recurring categories of
04:43of situations of concern within party groups within you know membership financial compliance
04:50internal election issues candidate selection access to information complaints appeals and so forth and
04:57now we have the added pressure of course the government you know you can say politically adding the issue
05:03of you know know your wealth to the PNM even though i would even argue that the united national congress
05:09itself has questions to answer about its financing of the last election so it should be applied across the board
05:17but it's also the treatment of dissent within the party the questions around who controls the machinery
05:22and and i want to be fair to the institution right constituency disputes are not new to the PNM no
05:32serious
05:32organization survives over 70 years without conflict right but the constitution of the party exists
05:41precisely because the institution needs rules remedies and procedures to address um disagreement right and so that
05:50is why you wear you know this is an institutional test now you've raised concerns about internal issues at the
06:01san fernando east constituency
06:02you've affected some level of change by the publicity on your page and so on now at transity maloney and
06:09i saw a post on your page saying labre is next
06:13what is really happening across these key constituencies a lot is happening you know uh you know and i've been
06:22very careful not to force them into one conspiracy right
06:25uh for me i think what what connects them is the confidence of the process okay uh you know san
06:33fernando east has raised questions around accountability representation
06:38in terms of complaints on the handling of disagreements would be a member of parliament who i recently just yesterday
06:44had to
06:45call to order a bit because i found that you know it's deviating a little bit now i'm in full
06:49support of people being
06:51you know ardently passionate about their constituents i would do the same if i was in this position however
06:57there comes a time when you need to you know bring it in a little bit in terms of trinity
07:03maloney
07:03um as you would have seen you know party group members had concerns that you know the the chairperson
07:10was acting in ways that you know it's a little bit indifferent to the usual process and i would
07:16have articulated that we don't really have the time to get into that but you know again agms administration
07:23electoral eligibility and whether the information was going properly outwards so of course you know i made
07:30some agitations inside trinity maloney it was then you know due to that pressure they then revealed to me
07:36oh actually the election is on the 16th then people saying okay well nobody told us this so they're seeing
07:44this information on my page but nothing has officially come out of the party itself so that i go back
07:50and put
07:50some pressure on you know living and then they eventually reveal to the people and then these are all
07:56situations that are you know endemic to you know the broader pattern that i was uh uh seeing you know
08:04what's going on in the brain
08:08library raises another set of questions around constituency influence representation succession
08:15and the weight that is given to local sentiment and whether that might have been a thing in the past
08:20and whether now there are other elements of things that are rearing their heads now i'm going to be
08:25talking about that in the next couple of days so i don't really want to get into that too much
08:29but
08:29ultimately it is about um who becomes organizationally stronger right who is weakened who controls the
08:38information who controls the administrative gateways and how those things may matter when a constituency becomes
08:45politically available and i want to stress on on that so it's not just a matter of you know
08:53each person you know wins an internal dispute it's about whether ordinary members can look at the process and believe
09:00that the same rules
09:01would apply regardless of the personalities involved
09:06are you saying that the pnm's internal electoral machinery is being used for political control
09:11well okay i mean i'm saying that the machinery has the capacity to shape political outcomes which is precisely
09:23why you know avashi it's it's in its integrity matters so much uh to me because party groups in the
09:30pnm
09:31create organizational strength right organizational strength is that it affects constituency structures the
09:38delegates and internal structures and so on and those structures become extremely consequential when
09:44candidate selection succession and leadership questions uh uh arise now so for example if it go ahead
09:50i was i was going to say you're saying that the machinery is in place it's there but it's not
09:55being used
09:58so i was just going to elaborate on that if if an administrative decision at one level can affect
10:04you know uh political uh viability at another the safeguards around that decision have to be exceptionally
10:12strong so i'm not saying that every you know administrative decision is manipulation but i've seen
10:18instances and evidence of that being the case so of course just saying that as a broad bus would be
10:26irresponsible i'm saying that the system must be transparent enough that nobody has to rely on a
10:32personal personality saying trust me it's fair when the evidence doesn't support that gotcha who benefits
10:38from the way things are being done now when the machinery is not used name the beneficiaries okay
10:46well structurally those closest to the gateways have the greatest opportunity to benefit people with
10:53influence over the membership administration party group recognition constituency machinery electoral
11:00processes and the national organizational structure the office of the general secretary is therefore
11:06extraordinarily influential forster cummings presently occupies that office you know incumbent
11:13constituency executives can also you know possess significant organizational uh advantages as can political
11:21actors whose you know support is deeply embedded in that structure but just before you ask me anything
11:29else i wanted to say this i want to be very careful to distinguish influence from misconduct here
11:35occupying a powerful office or or even benefiting from a structure is not proof of wrongdoing
11:43where i have evidence about conduct i will address it as i have where i do not i will convert
11:49the those
11:50suspicions into facts simply because the name of course is is is convenient isn't enough right so good
11:59institutions minimize the amount of personal trust that is required to believe that the process is is fair
12:07um so you know if real reform is the objective which i think it is the rules need to be
12:15enough that no
12:17personality such as foster cummings or anyone else has to be personally trusted for the system to be credible
12:23the pnm is at a crossroads pius robinson joins us again after the break beyond the headlines
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14:23come back to beyond the headlines we're talking
14:25with Piers Robinson. Now, Piers, tell us, is this a fight against the political leader? Now,
14:30you've been critical of Penelope Beckles Robinson. Let me put the question to you directly. Do you
14:36believe she's capable of leading the PNM out of this crisis? Well, do I believe that Mrs. Beckles
14:47is capable of leading the PNM out of this crisis? Not if she doesn't take full control. If she does
14:56take full control, I think she's fully capable of doing so. But as I said in a few posts ago,
15:03I think there are people around the political leader who are pushing her into a particular
15:10political corner of no return. And I say that without contradiction. I mean, the evidence
15:16suggests it. What I do believe is that there are entrenched interests and organizational agendas
15:23inside the PNM that can constrain the authority of the political leader. And I think Penny has found
15:31herself locked in that. When she was elected to lead, that mandate has to mean something. But if
15:40there are people who are doing things behind the scenes with a lot of influence, you know, I think
15:48that if she gets her hands on dealing with things, then yes. If not, and she allows these things to
15:59fester, then no. Ultimately, it will revolve in her becoming a lame duck. What is her biggest
16:06leadership failure thus far? Not taking control. And who, in that case, Piers, who actually runs
16:14the party? I mean, look, from a constitutional standpoint, Foster Cummings.
16:25Because the party itself has so many, you know, different elements and so on. But if we're looking
16:32at, you know, guidance and so on, the general secretary, we use quite a lot of power. If she is
16:40not the
16:41person to lead the PNM out of this crisis, then who? Who is? Is that the question? If she is
16:48not the person
16:49who can lead the PNM out of this crisis, then who? That is a matter for the PNM. But what
16:55I would say
16:56is that the party then needs to get control of its party groups, its organization, organize themselves
17:04to take back control. You've raised questions, Piers, about people who lost elections, who nearly lost
17:13elections now holding influential positions within the party. What message does that send to the
17:19electorate and the PNM membership?
17:21Yeah. Yeah. You know what? And I think that's a very, that's a very good question that you've
17:27asked. I think it risks telling citizens that they spoke, but the institution didn't listen to them
17:35at all. Right. Take Foster Cummings, for example, in La Hoceta, and that's not just me picking on
17:42Foster Cummings. I'm just using examples of, you know, things. The PNM received, in La Hoceta,
17:49and El Paro, 9,700 votes in 2020 and won that seat quite convincingly. But in 2025, Foster Cummings
17:58received 6,712 votes and lost by 2,873. That is a significant and substantial collapse in the party's
18:07position in that constituency. Nationally, of course, the PNM would have moved from 322,000
18:13of thereabouts and 22 seats to, in 2020, you know, you know, 224 votes and 13 seats in 2025.
18:25That is just under 100,000 votes lost. And so we can't look at that and think that the citizens
18:32are communicating in vacuum. Right. There have been instances where people are saying, look,
18:37the person that we've put here is not representing us. We want someone else. The party refused to
18:43listen, and so they learn, so people vote them out. Take Library, for example, and constituencies
18:48that the PNM has held for practically its whole life. They lost it. That is a significant failure.
18:56So electoral defeat, of course, does not legally disqualify Foster Cummings from public life,
19:01and it doesn't erase the service. But he is General Secretary, the organizational center of the party
19:07that now says it must rebuild, but you can't vote it out. So do you have the temerity, as it
19:14would,
19:15to instruct people when they voted you out? My view is that Foster should make way for new
19:20organizational leadership, not as punishment, but not as humiliation, not political exile,
19:28but transition. Leading people requires confidence. When confidence has been withdrawn
19:35to such a degree, a serious political organization has to ask whether retaining substantially the
19:42same, you know, concentration of authority assists renewal or frustrates it. And that is the fundamental
19:50question for the political leader. Now, we are running a little short on time. The conversation
19:56is very riveting. But I do have to ask you, following, I mean, we talked about elections,
20:01following the 2025 election defeat, was it a defeat of the PNM or a rejection of Keith Rowley's PNM?
20:10I think, to be honest, you know, I won't get into the thing, but I think it was a bit
20:16of both,
20:17right? There were elements of both. There was clearly a judgment in a particular political era,
20:22right? It's leadership style, certain decisions, particular candidates, political relationships,
20:27and the culture that developed around the government, whether all of those claims were right or wrong,
20:32or whether, you know, political narratives played a significant role in pushing a story that people
20:39believed. But, of course, an institution, you know, Vashi cannot take credit for an era when it succeeds
20:47and then detach itself from the era when the electoral electorate rejects it. The PNM presented
20:54that government, those candidates, and the political offer to Trinidad and Tobago under a PNM banner.
21:01The people rejected it for many reasons.
21:04Now, Piers, finally, you have a long history with the PNM. You founded the PNM abroad. You were mentored
21:09by Patrick Manning. Are you criticizing the party because you've turned against it? Are you still a PNM
21:14supporter? Or do you believe you're trying to save something that you believe in?
21:20Look, I'm glad that you asked me that question because there are people who genuinely believe I
21:25arrived in the conversation, you know, recently. I did not. My involvement with the PNM goes way back
21:32to 2004. That's 22 years ago. By 2026, you know, that's 22 years of political engagement with the
21:40institution. By 2006, look at this. I was already attending meetings, including at Ballysay House and
21:48working with people like the current mayor of San Fernando Robert Paris, Candace Gransal, Brandon Gransal,
21:54and others in the youth activity and so on. And I got this book, right, many years ago from Patrick
22:03Manning as a gift in 2006, along with the PNM handbook for members, right? Then, you know, pushing
22:13ideas and things where the party could modernize itself, get itself on social media and start
22:19talking a national language instead of this whole stupidness about greatest the PNM and shall prevail.
22:24I always found that as a frivolous and nonsensical statement. People will get upset with me for
22:29saying that. But the party itself, in the opening of its original constitution, says that this PNM,
22:38is the preservation of national, for the people of Trinidad and Tobago, the way of life for the people
22:44of Trinidad and Tobago. Trinidad and Tobago, not PNM only. And so the party must get away from this
22:50language that was good for the time, right? Post-colonial Trinidad and Tobago. But now we're
22:55evolving. We're more a national party and so on. And we need to start thinking about ways of bringing
23:02that back into the forefront, you know. There's a long history, you know, but I think that ultimately
23:11none of this means that people need to have blind loyalty. We're all citizens of Trinidad and Tobago,
23:17right? And we have a space and a place to guide political parties that purport to represent the
23:25people of Trinidad and Tobago. Piers, yes or no, are you still a PNM supporter?
23:30I mean, I'm not a court-carrying member of the PNM, but I'm a supporter of any organization that
23:36seeks the interests of Trinidad and Tobago. I align myself with the PNM historically. And there's a
23:42little bit of a secret. PNM Abroad is actually still around, you know. If some people go to
23:47facebook.com forward slash PNM Abroad, you'd be quite surprised what you find. But yeah.
23:54Piers Robinson, development diplomat, strategic advisor, journalist, and public affairs commentator
24:00joining us tonight to look beyond the immediate political controversies and examine the bigger
24:06questions surrounding the PNM, political accountability, and the future of the leadership
24:11in Trinidad and Tobago. Piers, let me thank you so much for joining us on Beyond the Headlines.
24:16And to our viewers, thank you for watching. I'm Arvashi Tiwari Rupnarain. It's back to Deesha after the break.
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