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00:00Dan, this BRICS summit is really interesting because it came from kind of an offhanded
00:04remark that somebody made on the sidelines of UNGA, and now it has become a real thing
00:09and a real meeting, and Modi is hosting it.
00:11And he had some comments already this morning talking about, you know, countries like his
00:16are bearing the brunt of global crises and that they shouldn't remain on the sidelines
00:19while decisions are being made.
00:21He says, quote, we must transform this pyramid of privilege into a platform of partnership.
00:26But of course, the big issue is codifying that in a tangible way.
00:29Are we expecting any deliverables out of this meeting?
00:33So I think probably the highest level deliverable that we should expect is actually a joint statement
00:38out of this year's BRICS meeting, which is actually pretty remarkable because of the, you know,
00:45really wildly divergent interests of a lot of the countries that are here today.
00:48I mean, you have, of course, most notably Iran, whose president is here and delivered a very
00:55fiery speech last night, essentially a speech of defiance against the U.S. saying that Iran
01:01will not surrender in the face of the U.S.-Israeli war, which is now in its sixth month.
01:09You have, at the same time, you have the UAE and Saudi Arabia, which have sort of been at
01:15odds with Iran throughout this war.
01:18India, of course, trying to sort of straddle all these different camps.
01:21And then on the other side, where you have a whole other set of interests is, of course,
01:25Russia and China.
01:27And so you really have, you know, in this group of BRICS countries, which has always cast
01:32itself as this kind of group of emerging economies in the world, wildly divergent interests.
01:38And so you do.
01:39So the fact that there is a joint statement coming and we're still waiting for that joint
01:42statement.
01:43But the fact that one has been wrangled is remarkable.
01:46And I think we'll see that soon, really any minute now.
01:49I'm sorry.
01:50No, you go ahead.
01:50No, no, I'm surprised by that.
01:52That was actually one of my other questions is, do you think we're going to see a joint
01:55statement?
01:56That's really surprising.
01:57Sorry, Dan.
01:57Always the parlor game at these summits.
01:58And another is just watching the footage that's been displayed as we've been talking with you,
02:02Dan, the kind of pageantry of the arrival of these leaders.
02:06Let me ask you about one in particular, President Xi of China arriving in India.
02:10An interesting kind of narrative here is the relationship between the U.S. and India,
02:15particularly when it comes to trade.
02:17And I imagine how sore India feels as a result of the way that the U.S. has been turning
02:20its
02:20attention.
02:21What does that mean for President Xi?
02:22How opportunistically does he see the future of his relationship with India?
02:27Well, you know, I mean, it's absolutely right.
02:30The pageantry is so much of what is on display here.
02:33Now, I mean, as far as the Xi-Modi kind of dynamic goes, these are two countries that are
02:39kind of are two nations trying to kind of keep themselves slightly at arm's reach while also
02:45trying to draw each other closer.
02:48These are two countries that are historically rivals.
02:50They are mainly sort of at odds over a longstanding, decades-long border dispute.
02:57There has been some tentative signs that a rapprochement is underway, sort of signs that
03:03that border dispute is taking small steps towards being resolved.
03:08Both of these countries are increasingly dealing with a shifting relationship with the U.S.,
03:14which is underscoring kind of a lot of what's happening here at the BRICS today,
03:17but it's also underscoring the relationship between India and China.
03:21On the one hand, you have, you know, India, a longstanding partner of the U.S.,
03:25ties have really frayed with Trump in this second Trump administration,
03:30particularly over trade, over tariffs.
03:33These two countries have been much farther apart.
03:35At the same time, you have China getting closer to the U.S.
03:38and slowly sort of a thaw underway there.
03:41So what you have is kind of an opportunity for both of these countries to try to find
03:45common ground in the face of this kind of shifting global landscape.
03:49And I think that that is a lot of what is sort of below the surface as these two countries
03:54kind of, you know, do this sort of subtle dance around each other,
03:57which is really what you're seeing at the BRICS this weekend.
04:00There's also this interesting anecdote that I was reading, I think, in your article or one of our
04:05colleagues, that just ahead of the arrival, China Southern Airlines announced that it's going to
04:09resume its daily route to Guangzhou from New Delhi starting September 21st.
04:14So this is the first time they've relaunched this route after a six-year suspension.
04:19And it's the third major Chinese airlines to restore service between the two countries.
04:22I mean, is this more than just symbolic?
04:25As somebody who covered the Abraham Accords, the first step in a lot of those deals
04:29was opening airspace to Israeli planes, you know, and then you would see the Accord follow.
04:33Is this more than just symbolic?
04:36So, I mean, this is really, you know, kind of one of these signs of a tentative step.
04:40And to your point, I mean, this is sort of how things start.
04:45You see the sort of slow kind of people-to-people connections resume, right?
04:49Things like this, like in the form of direct flights, which has been slowly kind of resuming
04:55between India and China.
04:56And those were basically totally suspended after a border clash, a really violent border
05:03clash in 2020, which sort of sent relations into a deep freeze between China and India.
05:07So I actually think that's a really good example of these sort of slow kind of tentative steps
05:12towards, you know, a more normalization in the relationship.
05:17And before COVID, of course, I mean, there were plenty of commercial flights between the
05:22two countries.
05:23So that is a very good example.
05:26And I think, you know, this might be the sort of thing where you might see kind of more examples
05:32of this kind of, you know, come out of this meeting, you know, in the days to come for
05:38sure.
05:38Dan, I want to go back to something Christina mentioned, which is kind of the genesis of
05:41this term.
05:42So going back even further, it was Jim O'Neill, the Goldman Sachs economist who coined the
05:45brick term and then grew more and more and became this real vital thing.
05:49We've seen the consternation from Washington, from President Trump about its growth, the
05:55might that it's been flexing on the international scene.
05:57Talk a bit more about that, if you would, kind of the might that it does have globally and
06:02sort of how it wants to position itself here going forward.
06:05Yeah, no, it's funny that I mean, this this group was basically a branding exercise developed
06:10by Goldman Sachs some years ago, and now it's it's turned into this group to a real kind
06:14of grouping that does get together every year.
06:18So there's always been this tension within the BRICS, right?
06:21Is it is it is it a block with a set of of kind of coherent interests that stands in
06:28opposition to the U.S.-led order?
06:30Or is it just kind of a bunch of countries, a motley group of countries that gets together
06:34once a year and has a chat?
06:36I think the introduction of countries like Iran and of course, you know, the sort of
06:44posture of countries like Russia have have been trying to push the group over the years
06:48in recent years more towards that kind of we're an anti U.S.
06:52group or we're an alternative U.S.
06:53group, an alternative to the U.S.-led order.
06:57On the other hand, you have countries like India that really wants to kind of keep this
07:01group something something a bit more informal, something that's just kind of a meetup of
07:07countries to kind of discuss, you know, the issues of the day, issues like trade and and
07:12cooperation on A.I. and things that are that are sort of a bit a bit softer in nature.
07:17And so, you know, the fact that this is happening in India, which is a country that does sort
07:23of really pride itself on having what they call strategic autonomy, which is this kind
07:28of ability to kind of maintain relationships with China, with Russia, with Iran, but also
07:33with the U.S., kind of keep everybody happy and be a conduit of communication for everybody
07:38is is very notable and I think is is a big reason why you do see kind of really all
07:43the
07:43BRICS leaders coming here today in New Delhi.
07:45It says a lot about kind of India's ability to kind of be that that middle ground kind
07:50of country where where everybody can kind of come together and at least hash out some
07:55of these issues and be heard.
07:56So the evolution of the BRICS has been a super interesting development that that has that
08:01has really underscored this over the last many years.
08:04Dan, before we let you go, I mean, the thing that also strikes me is that Iran is actually
08:07in the room with these leaders.
08:09And whenever we talk about U.S. negotiations, that is not the case.
08:12You've got people in different rooms and you've got intermediaries shuttling back and forth.
08:18How significant is it to have face to face talks with the Iranian president?
08:22And what is the goal?
08:23What do all of these countries want to get out of those meetings?
08:27Well, Iran for sure is here to push an agenda.
08:30I mean, its agenda is that it's one of defiance.
08:34It is it is it is seeking kind of to build some bridges among countries that it sees might
08:40be potential allies, sort of non-Western countries that might be upset with the turn that the
08:47world has taken in the last two years under Trump.
08:50There's a lot of countries in New Delhi today, a lot of leaders in New Delhi today from countries
08:54that have been antagonized, that see themselves as as sort of perhaps victims of a more predatory
09:02U.S. and that might have a sort of willing new kind of partnership to be made here with amongst
09:10amongst
09:10themselves. So I think with Iran, you do really see a really clear example of kind of this this new
09:16turn
09:17that the BRICS might be taking. And, you know, it's notable, hard to say if it's coincidence,
09:22that just overnight you had this this major development in the Middle East where, you know,
09:27these Iranian backed militants in Yemen, the Houthis have attacked, undertaken these attacks
09:31that have caused more disruptions in the oil flow from the Middle East, Saudi Arabia, closing
09:36down its pipeline and causing further disruptions as well. And that's all kind of just just reminded
09:42everybody here in New Delhi today what what the real elephant in the room is, which is which is this
09:46war and and is absolutely kind of at the top of the agenda as well.
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