00:04Deux individus se sont introduits par effraction le 8 septembre dernier au petit matin dans le musée Renoir de Cagnes
00:12-sur-Mer.
00:12Quatre tableaux d'Auguste Renoir ont été dérobés, ils avaient été déposés par le musée d'Orsay.
00:18Deux ont finalement été abandonnés par les voleurs en prenant la fuite.
00:22Deux oeuvres restent aujourd'hui introuvables.
00:24Ce vol intervient dans un contexte de recrudescence des vols dans les musées français.
00:30Je suis ravie d'être en visio avec James Radcliffe qui est directeur des restitutions et directeur général de The
00:36Art Loss Register.
00:37Merci beaucoup James d'être avec nous.
00:41Can you tell us James, from your perspective, why do we see this rise of art theft in recent months
00:50in museums ?
00:52I think it's probably because we've had art theft in museums and now we're just seeing people acting as copycats.
01:00And they see that museums are places where you can take advantage of potentially weak security
01:08to steal objects that are perceived by the thieves to be valuable.
01:13Whether or not they can make money from them is another matter.
01:15But it's a self-fulfilling prophecy now.
01:19It's a vicious circle that every time that we're talking about museum thefts,
01:24criminals are realizing that museums hold valuable property that they can steal.
01:30You pronounce the words whether or not they can make money.
01:34Does this have an impact on the art market ?
01:37Should the art market be even more peculiar on the selling and the buying ?
01:45I think obviously in the instance of these Renoirs that have been stolen last week,
01:52they are well known now to everyone in the market.
01:55And I think it will be impossible for the thieves to sell them openly to a dealer or an auction
02:01house.
02:02But I think it is a useful reminder of how important it is for people in the market to be
02:07doing due diligence
02:08when they are engaged in a transaction because art is stolen.
02:12We know that it happens all the time.
02:15And it's really important that it's identified as the first available opportunity
02:19because that reduces the ability for criminals to make money from stolen art.
02:23Exactly, because we've seen with the thefts of the jewels, we've seen how it's possible to hide it.
02:30For pieces of art, it seems a little bit more difficult.
02:35Why do they do that?
02:38It's a very good question.
02:40As you say, with jewelry, with gold objects, it's much easier to realize some value from what they've stolen.
02:48In contrast, I think, with painting, it's probably reflecting the fact that the thieves didn't quite know what they were
02:56doing,
02:57is the honest answer, that they saw that there was an opportunity to steal from this museum
03:02and that perhaps the security was not as good as it could have been.
03:06And they thought, well, Renoir paintings are going to be worth lots of money.
03:11But they haven't necessarily thought it through in terms of how they then turn a painting into cash.
03:17And realistically, unless they already had a buyer lined up, I just don't see how they can make any serious
03:23money out of them.
03:24So the French government recently introduced a new action plan to improve security in museums.
03:31In your views, in your point of view, what can be done in terms of security in museums?
03:40The honest answer is that the most important thing for museums is to have sufficient funding to pay for the
03:46security that they need to have in place.
03:48I think we all have to remember that our museums have come under a lot of financial pressure in recent
03:53years.
03:54And that means that it's very difficult for them to do everything they need to do.
03:58They're trying to maintain their buildings, to put on exhibitions, to acquire new pieces sometimes.
04:04And they have very little money to do it.
04:07And so it's all very well to talk about the importance of museum security.
04:11But we actually have to fund museum security as well.
04:13So it would be like human, more security human-wise, like also cyber-wise?
04:23How can you see that?
04:25I think there are ways that we can invest in all areas of museum security.
04:30I'm sure that there is no museum in the world that would say it's entirely content with its security situation.
04:35That might mean more people actually present at the museum, for example, while it's closed or while it's open.
04:42It might mean better perimeter security, whether that's better sealing of windows and doors to make them harder to get
04:50through if they're not supposed to be opened.
04:51Or perhaps CCTV and alarms around the perimeter.
04:56And then, as you say, cyber security is a growing area that we have to think about, too.
05:01All of these areas need to be considered.
05:04And I think it's very difficult for museums because often, taking the Louvre, for example, they are in a historic
05:10building.
05:10And one where for them to install things like alarm systems and CCTV is not straightforward because they have to
05:18look after the building as much as they do the collection.
05:20And they're not alone in that position as a museum that also occupies a historic building.
05:26Thank you so much, James Radcliffe, for giving us your insight on this theft.
05:33James Radcliffe, vous êtes directeur des restitutions et donc directeur général de The Art Lost Register.
05:39Merci beaucoup d'avoir été avec nous en visioconférence.
05:41J'ai été un peu à la indemanse de derechos.
05:42Jeux Bris itu avec l'торов Scottsche ou un peu à la grande ascension.
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