- 4 days ago
dieFirma in New York presents Spanning Time, Bill Miller’s second solo exhibition at the gallery, on view from September 17, 2026, to January 30, 2027. Miller hand-cuts vintage linoleum to construct landscapes, narratives, and scenes that consider both the images and the histories carried by the material. In this video, Bill Miller takes us on a tour of his exhibition.
Bill Miller's process is handmade and intervenes in a product originally made for mass production and repetition. This approach relates to his early work in Pittsburgh with the Industrial Arts Co-op, which built sculptures from materials found in abandoned mills and factories after the steel industry’s decline. His grandfather, a coal miner, and his father, a factory worker, died in industrial accidents. Several works suggest dreams or memories, moving between domestic and industrial settings.
Miller’s practice is grounded in collage while also citing Gordon Matta-Clark, Yoko Ono, and painters including van Gogh, Klimt, Schiele, Münter, Kiefer, O’Keeffe, and Sherald. Worn linoleum surfaces become active elements in the compositions. Miller was born in Cleveland in 1962, attended the Art Institute of Pittsburgh, and lives and works in Pittsburgh.
Bill Miller: Spanning Time at dieFirma, New York, is on view September 17, 2026 – January 30, 2027. New York, September 18, 2026.
Bill Miller's process is handmade and intervenes in a product originally made for mass production and repetition. This approach relates to his early work in Pittsburgh with the Industrial Arts Co-op, which built sculptures from materials found in abandoned mills and factories after the steel industry’s decline. His grandfather, a coal miner, and his father, a factory worker, died in industrial accidents. Several works suggest dreams or memories, moving between domestic and industrial settings.
Miller’s practice is grounded in collage while also citing Gordon Matta-Clark, Yoko Ono, and painters including van Gogh, Klimt, Schiele, Münter, Kiefer, O’Keeffe, and Sherald. Worn linoleum surfaces become active elements in the compositions. Miller was born in Cleveland in 1962, attended the Art Institute of Pittsburgh, and lives and works in Pittsburgh.
Bill Miller: Spanning Time at dieFirma, New York, is on view September 17, 2026 – January 30, 2027. New York, September 18, 2026.
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CreativityTranscript
00:13So, Bill, tell me a little about, yeah, first of all, thanks a lot for taking the time for this
00:19short walkthrough. I'm curious, what are you showing here? I'm showing a series of works
00:26that I've made over the last two years, and my second solo show at De Firma in New York,
00:32and my work is made of old linoleum floors exclusively that I salvage out of houses and
00:40buildings, era of the 1900s and 1950s. I take the material out, I reclaim it, clean it, and then
00:50I use it for my, it's my medium for my work. I'm looking for found colors and patterns from the
00:58era, and I like to, well, my mission is to use only those colors and patterns. I never alter it
01:06with
01:06paint or drawing or anything. I only use what I find, and when I alter it, it's through my process
01:12of cutting with a knife or exposing corners or oftentimes improvisational things that happen
01:19because the material is broken or found in a certain way. So, my focus is to tell the stories
01:26of inspiration, things that inspire me, and to tell them with that medium.
01:34When did you begin your artistic practice, and how, you know, why?
01:40Well, I was always an artist, even as a kid. I mean, I was naturally a drawer and painter, if
01:46you will,
01:47but I was kind of a self-taught painter, and my skill or my vocation was being in publishing
01:58and art direction for magazines and newspapers. So, in the process of doing that, I became a
02:07self-taught painter. So, I became oil painting, acrylic painting, and I showed those for some years,
02:12and I did that for a while. But in the early 1990s, I started to do recycling work with a
02:18bunch of
02:18artists in Pittsburgh because we were responding to the factories and the mills that were all shut
02:24down and whole swaths of the city that were dead and empty, where it used to be a vital, vibrant
02:30part of life. So, we were really interested in exposing that and bringing attention to that.
02:35So, the mission initially was to go into a mill every Sunday, for instance, you know, while working
02:41a full-time job with a bunch of people, and we would make a recycled piece of art based on
02:47what
02:48we could find on site, generally an animal. So, in that process of three or four years of working with
02:54these people, I developed an interest in recycled material, but really, moreover, I fell in love with
03:00the linoleum. And I found it, like, in the dump, like, outside of a house that was being renovated,
03:05for instance. Found a piece of linoleum, and I thought, oh, that looks like a piece of an
03:09impressionist painting. So, and also then experienced the material itself, you know, picked it up and
03:15looked at it. It was so beautiful, kind of vibrant. It was going to the waste dump the next morning,
03:21so I saved it and got really inspired by it. And then, after about a year of literally every night
03:27dumpster diving, looking for it, I got enough different patterns and styles to try to, you
03:34know, take a leap and see what I could do with collage. Right. And why your fascination with linoleum?
03:40I just fell in love with the material. The material is, it's from, it was made from 1900 to 1950.
03:48It's a cork, tar, linseed oil base. It's all natural. And also the, it was something that was gone,
03:53you know, not unlike the mills and the lives of those, those people. The process of linoleum,
04:01the life of linoleum was gone because after World War II, vinyl, plastic, and those kind of things
04:06started coming into the process of construction material. So the, the whole motif was gone. And
04:12along with the motif went the design, the colors, the wild patterns and things like that. That kind of
04:18all went to the wayside too. And flooring became brown and gray and, you know, very uninteresting.
04:26Um, maybe we have a look at, uh, one of your paintings, um, let's, uh, talk a little bit about
04:31your motives and your, yeah, the stories you tell. Sure. Um, maybe this one, yeah, this one here
04:39is a piece called unsaid words were heard, which is kind of a play on gossip, like the gossip or
04:46a
04:46gossip group. It's inspired by a vintage photo that I found in a flea market. And a lot of my,
04:53uh,
04:53pieces are inspired by those kinds of things. I, um, I like to tell the story of and show images
05:02of
05:02people that I believe were alive and vibrant at the time the linoleum was also in their homes.
05:09So I think that's really interesting. These women, for instance, probably 1910, 1920,
05:16there's buildings. So in the buildings are linoleum in my mind. So I'm telling their stories
05:22with the material from that age, material from that age, and kind of giving you, uh, what their
05:28life might be like with these colors and these patterns, right? As kind of a homage. But also,
05:34you know, I was really inspired. The photo is, is, is very interesting. And it looks to me like they're
05:40sitting on a bench having a day drink or something, kibitzing or talking. And, um, it was just one of
05:47the,
05:48one of the pieces I really felt compelled to make for the show because I just thought that it had
05:53a
05:53great story within it. And, uh, I really wanted to tell it. It's interesting also, you know, the,
05:59the patterns or the, uh, on the linoleum, um, how do you choose it? Um, uh, do you, um, yeah,
06:08can you describe a little bit the process of doing this painting? Sure. Continuing with this one,
06:14I did a sketch of the people from the photo, but the background is completely improvised.
06:20And to answer your question, a lot of times when I'm making these pieces, I would say the
06:26thing that is more artistic about them is coming up with what colors and patterns combine together to
06:31make it appealing overall. So for instance, these two dresses, as soon as I put them together,
06:39they were exactly what I wanted. But the other ones had to be done three or four times before I
06:45got the
06:46exact colors. Cause you know, they're the things that happen is in my mind. I'll say, Oh, this will
06:51work. This will work. But then when I put it together and put it down, you know, what I'm
06:55focusing on as an artist is trying to make the eye pop, right? I want your eye to pop. I
07:00don't want
07:01you to see it and look like it's a blob or just color on color drab or, or not interesting.
07:06So I'm
07:06working to make it vibrant. So when you see it, it's like, Oh, it's eye catching. And a lot of
07:12times
07:12I'll think in my mind, Oh, this pattern or that pattern will work. But ultimately I can put them
07:18together and be disappointed. So then that's when, you know, two or three times I'm redoing them. So
07:23that's when the work becomes, you know, it takes months to complete, you know, this piece I could
07:29say for sure took four or five months, but I spent at least two weeks just on them, just every
07:36day
07:36working on the details, changing them, altering them and to decide what I wanted.
07:40How do you store the, you know, and how do you choose? I mean, do you have some, some kind
07:47of
07:51archive that's, that has a certain, you know, that's, um, separate in, if you're suggesting
07:58organization, no, no, I have a building that I have my material in. Um, I have, I can acquire rolls
08:07and or pieces when I get it. So for instance, sometimes I can go into a house or get calls
08:11from somebody who's got some and I go in and the whole rolls on the floor and I just roll
08:15it up
08:15and take it. And then I've got these rolls, but I can also find it kind of already distressed and
08:20in
08:20pieces just in chunks and oftentimes, you know, distressed so that that's also weren't valuable
08:27to me. So then I also have bins and plastic things and shelves, but I'm not organized in my mind.
08:36When I work on them, I really like it to be organic. So for instance, now if you got, excuse
08:42me, to see
08:42my studio, it's a disaster because I just finished all this work and brought it. Now I'll get back and
08:47I'll put it back together, but it definitely turns into a thing where, all right, where's that color?
08:52Where's that thing? I know I have it somewhere. Sometimes I know exactly, but oftentimes it's
08:57gotten moved around. I know the famous painter Francis Bacon has a, have you seen his studio?
09:04Or you know what I'm talking about when I say the Francis Bacon studio, it's not that bad,
09:09but it is kind of like, you know, he's walking on the paintings, you know, and then, and then all
09:14of
09:14a sudden there's an amazing painting that comes out of it. So I have a little bit of that aesthetic
09:18where it can be cacophonous. And I think a lot of my friends who come to my studio think,
09:23how can you make this work in the middle of this like mountain of flooring? But that is exactly how
09:30it happens. You know, I'm walking on it, I'm grabbing it, I'm taking it, I'm letting it, cutting it,
09:36letting it fall. And then after I'm done, I just kind of go back through and organize it a little
09:40bit.
09:40You know, sometimes it's done by color, but moreover, it's done by sizes of pieces.
09:47Maybe have a look at another painting? Maybe this one? Yeah.
09:53This one's a really great example of waiting for the right pattern, because this is a piece called
10:00Blanche. Blanche is my cat who was long gone, but that's what the name's from. But it's based on a
10:06photo
10:06I saw of a friend of mine's mother from the 30s or 40s, a black and white photo. And it
10:13was just a
10:13lovely, it was actually a Christmas photo, but I changed the motif. But the dress and the figure
10:18was from the photo. And I had designed and identified I was going to make this piece for this show.
10:25And I had started it, I had drawn it, I had the dress and the back and the base of
10:30the floor,
10:31but I couldn't find this color. And I had four or five different patterns, everything else was done,
10:39and I abandoned it for the show. I said, I'm not, I'm not doing it, it's not going to make
10:43it,
10:43because I don't have the right background. And then literally, literally the week that I finished this
10:49work and brought the big, the work and brought it here, this piece of linoleum arrived from,
10:55I had bought it from off of a guy who posted it on eBay, and he lived in North Carolina.
11:01And it's unlike anything I've seen. But as soon as I opened the box, I was like, ah,
11:05there it is. And I put it together and I, I sent it to the gallery. And they said, yes,
11:10you know, complete it and get it here. So otherwise, the piece would not be done,
11:14it wouldn't be here. So really, those moments of inspiration, kind of unbeknownst to me,
11:19I kind of willfully wait for. So if it's something I can't complete with what I have,
11:25I will abandon it. And then, like I said, this just came, came in, I knew right away,
11:30it would be the right thing. Do you write down where the material comes from?
11:37No, I don't, I don't. I have a pretty good memory of a lot of it. But no, I don't
11:42really write it down
11:43too much. Every now and then, if it's like, there are things that come along, there are once one,
11:49one of a kind. And I think this black and, and you'll see it a few times, but this black
11:53with red
11:54stripe, I got a huge roll of it that was unused. And so that, you know, became a real inspiration
12:01point, something I had never had before. And that's another thing too, like this one too,
12:05something I'd never seen before. A lot of the material you see many times, because they were very
12:10common. But some, every now and then, something will come along. And I've been collecting them
12:15for 30 years. So every now and then, something will come along that I haven't seen before. Right.
12:21Regarding the ideas for the motives, do you have some kind of, do you write down ideas?
12:27Yeah, sketchbooks, and the inspirations come from many different things. There are a few
12:34here that were based on paintings of my favorite painters, where I would do a drawing based on their
12:38painting or want to do something to pay homage to them as my inspiration. And also family memories,
12:47photos, any, any number of things. I'm always kind of keeping the antenna open for things
12:52that will inspire the work. And I think that the eclectic nature of that also combines with the
12:58eclectic nature of the material. So it really kind of, you know, in a way, while the work is thematic
13:04in its approach. Each image in my mind is kind of singular. There's not like one thing that flows.
13:11The theme is the flooring, the linoleum. But the stories are all different and they're gathered from
13:15different places. You mentioned favorite artists, inspiration. Can you name a few?
13:20Yeah, I mean, in terms of industrial material, which is not necessarily what this work speaks to,
13:26but there was Gordon Mattaclark, who was important in like the 60s, 70s, right? And he was really
13:34involved in going into houses and buildings and creating art from them. You know, he was famous for
13:40taking a building and cracking it in four and making a camera or taking a school bus and taking a
13:47thing to
13:47it and, you know, cutting it apart with a chainsaw and then making those pieces of art. There's a few
13:53examples in Manhattan where like sections of his home, like an eve of a house, for instance, is in the
14:00museum. So when I saw those when I was younger, I really felt like building material, again, past lives
14:07or things that were lost were valuable for art, was something that could speak to art. And I also
14:17just, you know, collage or found things, again, saving memories or something like that. But his work
14:24really inspired me to think, oh, you can do, you can make art from just about anything, right?
14:30There we have a landscape. Yeah, right. This landscape here is based on a painting by Gabrielle Munter,
14:38who's one of my favorite painters, right? She was a protege of Kandinsky, I believe, right? And this is a
14:49scene that she had painted several times. So if you look at some of her work, there's a sunny one,
14:55it's almost
14:55like Manet, who did the different, all the different lightings on different houses, I think, right? Or, you know,
15:01different sets. Is it Monet, right? She did the same thing. She painted this several times. But there
15:06was one, and I saw an exhibit in Paris, where it was a foggy sky, a foggy mountain over it.
15:13And I was
15:13super inspired by it. And for instance, when I saw the painting, and I came around the corner,
15:18and I saw it, and it blew me away, as an artist, and my interest in it, the first thing
15:23I did was stand
15:24there and think, I could make it. This would do this, this would do that, this would do that. And
15:29it
15:30inspired me right away. Like, I took a photo of it. And I said, as soon as I get back
15:34to work,
15:34this is something I'm going to work on. Because that, those inspirations and things are important
15:39to me. I feel like, you know, sometimes, you know, in our culture now, we sample things,
15:45like, you know, and I feel like that's kind of what I do. I take something, I get an inspiration,
15:49and I make it my own through my process. But I definitely am inspired and want to pay homage
15:55to those kind of moments that really mean a lot to me as an artist.
15:58than I want to try to convey it to.
16:02What about fascinating is your craft in combining the colors? Did you learn some kind of color?
16:08Because you said you're self-trained? How did you find out how to combine the colors?
16:14Well, I was a pretty much a self-trained artist, oil painter initially, and then acrylic painter.
16:20And I think just through trial and error, in terms of color, you know,
16:26I was able to create paintings that I liked, and I did have a little bit of success showing the
16:32paintings and, you know, having gallery shows. But I think, you know, I think it's just a
16:41combination of my desire to make the compositions colorful, but also the material kind of brings
16:47things to it that I'm, you know, I'm just a beneficiary of. You know, like these beautiful colors,
16:53you know, are found materials. So I didn't, I didn't really make them. I'm the, you know, I'm,
17:00I'm, you know, working with them and inspired by them, but I didn't make that red. And that's really
17:07a liberating thing. I will say this, as a painter, a lot of times problems are more difficult to solve
17:14if you can't really immediately come up with the answer. You can abandon them, or you can,
17:20you know, get discouraged. And I was probably painted fairly regularly, but when I started making these,
17:26and I, I discovered the material, it liberated me from those concerns, because I can't change the
17:32color. I'm committed not to change the surface. I'm not painting it or changing it. The only way
17:38that I've ever changed it is by letting it weather sometimes, and I can show you an example of that.
17:44But, so it really liberated me, like now I can't make the green greener or the yellow yellower. So I'm
17:50going to solve my problems with what I can find. And it really, it gave me the opportunity to really
17:55create
17:56more work. Because as a painter, I was oftentimes, you know, confused and not aware of how to finish
18:06the work. I can still have that problem here, but again, I let some of those things go, because it's
18:13part of the process of using file material. For me, it's fascinating that you are able to, you know,
18:20to use existing patterns, colors, and bring it together as a whole, you know. And that's,
18:27that's not easy. Right, it's not easy. I mean, I think, you know, Romare Bearden,
18:31collage artist, is a pretty good example of how that works perfectly. Obviously, his things are born
18:40of magazines and different types of things. But still, when you look at them, you can see how
18:44things that shouldn't work together can work together. My stuff is a little, my work is a
18:51little more singular, because I am usually using only one thing. But still, that kind of taught me
18:56that you can combine things that don't necessarily go together and create depth and color and make an
19:03interesting piece of art.
19:07What else do we have? Maybe this little one? You have different sizes. Yeah, right.
19:14I think I read in the press release, somehow, that you started rather small paintings.
19:20Yes, of course. But then you grew bigger. Yeah. Is that right?
19:23Initially, the pieces were really small, like this. The initial idea that I had when I thought of the
19:29linoleum as a medium, one thing that I thought was interesting is taking a man-made medium or man-made
19:40object and making a landscape out of it. So doing something pastoral or with nature from man-made
19:46material. So initially, I would just see automatically what would look like a bark of a tree and leaves.
19:56And so initially, the pieces were little, and they would be just a simple background. And then I would
20:03just do a tree, a few branches, and the foliage, and that would be it. I didn't really do much
20:10more
20:10than that at first. And immediately, the way the colors and the patterns combined gave me a depth. I mean,
20:19I could see right away that it worked. I wasn't sure right, I wasn't sure in my concept that what
20:25I was
20:26thinking would work. And it took me about a year, as I said, and I pulled the trigger one night
20:31and
20:31said, I'm just going to make one. And I made like two or three that evening. I took them to
20:36show my
20:37friends. And immediately, I got a reaction like, oh, you know, which was kind of like, oh, it's like
20:42a Eureka moment, almost. Is it different in doing the small pieces and the large piece or in the way
20:53you work? Well, with the large ones, I'm really intending on trying to make more of a statement
20:59than with necessarily with the small ones. The small ones can do that as well. But the small ones
21:03could also be exercises and just taking some patterns and putting them together and also making
21:09kind of more small, quaint things, just simpler things that, you know, the big ones get more
21:16involved with content and storytelling. And the small ones, I think, can be a little more decorative,
21:22you know, flowers or houses that are very nice to make and I enjoy it. But the big ones are
21:27really
21:28challenged and what challenged me. Okay, let's go maybe to the really big one.
21:35Right. I mean, by the way, it's such a nice gallery to have your work because it sits very nicely
21:42and
21:42it's not white walls. And I think that's really amazing how it looks. Well, it's interesting too.
21:50I mean, this is my second show here, as I said. And when I first came to see this space,
21:55which I think
21:55was 2018, they had just finished rehabbing it. It's been changed a little bit, but this is essentially
22:01what I saw. You know, I was intimidated because my work was not that large. My work generally was
22:08like in the three or four foot range. And Andrea Stern, the gallery owner and the gallerist, I would
22:16assess the owner, told me, challenged me to do the biggest things I could. She said, don't worry about
22:21anything. I want you to take your work to another level. And in that process, I really began to
22:30really focus on composition, larger composition to how I was going to be able to, to make them. So
22:38this, again, this being my second show, I think I succeeded in that one, but this one I think is
22:43even more, have more clarity in the large pieces. And I think a little more, if you will, control over
22:49them because really from end to end, you try to make it consistent as a piece of art. That's a
22:54successful piece. If you look at it and you don't, it's like, oh, that, you know, this corner's not,
22:58this quarter's not done or that. So that's something that really is hard to do for me.
23:02And that's what I was focusing on with, with large pieces, it became more difficult.
23:10You talked about, you know, the big ones are rather narrative.
23:13Right. Was it difficult for you to, to do narrative stuff?
23:19Well, it's not, it's not difficult to come up with the ideas. It's more difficult to tell a story
23:24successfully. Right. But again, because I harvest the ideas from different places, you know, something
23:30that I get really inspired by, I really kind of go in with, you know, jumping with both feet,
23:34you know, so I, and I can get so far into a piece and be confounded with it, as I
23:39described with
23:40the woman in the dress. But, you know, when I, for instance, like when I knew I was going to
23:45make
23:45that, and I know I'm going to make certain things, then I just kind of go for it. And then
23:49within the
23:50process, improvisation and storytelling can happen. The piece all the way in the back is a good example,
24:00because it's based on a, basically almost like a stock photograph of the bridge and the, and the
24:09locomotive. But I told the story my own way. And then I brought in the boy playing with the train
24:14in the
24:15foreground to try to give it a story of a little boy's imagination. So initially, the piece was just
24:21going to be, not just, but was going to be, you know, a beautiful scene of the Pittsburgh cityscape,
24:31you know, because I'm talking about blue collar stories. So it was definitely want to pay homage to
24:35that. But eventually the piece to me became a little boy experiences imagination, but it wasn't
24:41intended. It wasn't, it wasn't in my initial concept of the piece. As I developed it, I realized
24:49that it was more of a, a little boy's imagination rather than, uh, you know, just simply, uh, a best
24:57of
24:57vista. If we just, sure. Yeah. Sorry. I brought it up to our attention. We were too far away from
25:03it.
25:03It's perfect. But for instance, I took the bridge and the locomotive from a photo I saw online. I
25:12sketched it and then everything else in the piece is improved improvised. It's not something I hadn't done
25:18before because I do have other pieces I've done where there are hillsides or cityscapes of the area.
25:27But the idea here was to, to develop this and I'm trying to, trying to create some space. So
25:36you're further away and closer and closer and closer was part of the idea. And, um, also, you know,
25:43to pay homage to the blue collar life. This is blue collar life from the Midwest. I'm from Cleveland
25:50originally. I lived many years in Pittsburgh. So these are scenes and settings that are very familiar
25:56to me. And I like telling the stories of these people and, or my own people. Right. And so then
26:03this, like I said, this became something different when I decided to put the boy here and then he's
26:09playing with a train. He's, he doesn't have a shoe on cause he's in his bedroom. And, but this is
26:14his,
26:15what he's imagining when he's playing. That's how I see this piece. I love how you, um, did the steam.
26:22Yeah. Thanks. Yeah. It took a few, again, this is something that took a few variations and this is
26:29one of the things that happened. I did this darker gray initially, and I was going to be the only
26:34piece,
26:35but I really didn't think it popped as well. So I had four or five different versions of the,
26:40of the smoke. And then eventually through just improvisation, I put the two on top and I thought
26:51that that was successful because it gives you a brightness and then a little bit of a distance,
26:56you know, so it looks like it's, uh, just a big puff of smoke, which with several layers.
27:02And, um, I think it was more successful to make the smoke pop off the canvas a little bit more.
27:10Yeah. I really, uh, find this fascinating how you do that and how, how you can, you know, um,
27:17um, yeah, bring it to life with, uh, found. Yeah. Well, again, it's the material is exciting
27:22because it has a history. It's one of the things that, you know, we could talk about because a lot
27:27of
27:28times with this material, you know, I'm working with it and, um, you know, I feel like almost like
27:34a medium sometimes, like I'm, I'm channeling, you know, when you're in art, when you're doing the art
27:40and a lot of things are happening, uh, music can be playing, things can really kind of go get out
27:47outer space almost, right? And I've, I've opened pieces of material of linoleum and I've seen
27:53indentations of a, of a, of a desk or a chair and I think, and I, and like the, their
27:59lives will start
27:59to come to me. Like, I'm not saying I can see them, but I can feel energies that happened on
28:05these houses,
28:06and these floors, you know, now almost a hundred years ago. I mean, material was 1920s, 1930s,
28:13was its real heyday, forties and fifties, but you know, it's a hundred years old. So if I'm working
28:19with someone's, um, home from that long ago, I've got their energies and their life as part of my work.
28:27It's, it's something that I've tapped into that I had no, I didn't really have the idea. Initially,
28:32I fell in love with the material. I thought it's got to be saved. Then through the years of working
28:37with it, I realized I'm taking people's memories as well. A good example is right here on this one,
28:42because I always called attention to this because this is where you could see, and I saved this and,
28:48and meant this to be in the piece because you can see where the table or chairs were indented.
28:54And, uh, I just think that that's really exciting to see that knowing that, you know, in 1920s,
29:01somebody, you know, move their chair at their desk or their kitchen table over and over and over again,
29:07where they worked or where they ate. And I believe that comes into my work and kind of,
29:12like I say, unbeknownst to me, almost like a medium. I'm not sure exactly, but I know something
29:19is really how I would describe it. That's really interesting. Yeah, no, it's really,
29:22it's a big part of the work. I think the work is, I like to make it exciting to look
29:27at. I think
29:27visually it can be interesting, but also the material, you know, that's, it's what drew me
29:31to make the work and the material itself has a quality and interest that I think people can
29:37relate to as well. So people can come to my work through the love of material or some of those
29:42things, or simply by what I've done with it that makes it visually appealing, right? Or the stories I'm
29:50telling. Really cool. Thanks. Okay, maybe the really big one. Okay. The big one is a good example of
29:59motifs I've done a couple of times. The concept is based on a photo of me as a little boy
30:04when I was
30:05two, and I've done the piece many times. But the context here is completely improvised.
30:12Improvised. So I have this beautiful black roll of linoleum, and I knew I wanted to make a treescape
30:19with this as the bark, because I just thought it was fantastic. But in my process, I've set the panels
30:26up with nothing on them, no drawing, nothing. And I just cut the tree stalks, right? And then I just,
30:33I have the, everything is flat when I work on it, because I'm working on collage, so I can't do
30:38it
30:38like a painter. So I just took the different trunks that I cut, and I started laying them.
30:47And then when I finally got, you know, I get on my ladder and look down, when I finally got
30:52kind
30:53of like an arrangement that I liked, then I started to imagine what the background would be. I knew that
30:59I wanted there to be the river, and so I had had those pieces set aside. But pretty much everything
31:06else, I just kind of went to my, my inventory of bigger pieces. So I just took a, this for
31:15instance,
31:15this orange-ish color, I had a huge, I have a huge piece of it. So I just took a
31:21big swath of it,
31:22and cut it and laid it down. And the same with this brown. I had a huge amount of it.
31:27So I just cut
31:28some and put it down, and just tried to start building the landscape that way, and really kind of let
31:33it
31:34come about. For instance, this is a really nice little area where you can see the water,
31:40you know, kind of crests or moves. It was improv. It was really based on, you know, how the blue
31:46got
31:47cut, or how many, how much I had of it. You know, so like, for instance, some of this is
31:51blue all the
31:52way across. Some of that are just, it's just there. Because I'm just trying, you know, I'm trying to get
31:57it to
31:57go all the way across. My material is limited, right? So I, so then once I had that together,
32:06I started to see it more as, as what it became. But for instance, initially, this was completely
32:13different from here to here, completely different. And it wasn't quite as in focus. It was a little more,
32:23it was a little more abstract. It didn't, it couldn't quite see the horizon line. So I redid the
32:29whole horizon by bringing in the sky, and then making this. So I really was going to, initially,
32:35it was going to be tree line all the way down, but it just didn't work. So this, and that
32:40took weeks to
32:41conceive and to figure out, you know. But then once I did, and I knew, and then I got away
32:46from it,
32:47and I could see you, you can look past the trees into the background, which I think works.
32:51But it took a long time, and it took trial and error. It wasn't known to be. That's part of
32:57just letting that happen, right? So then within that, I, I still wanted to tell the story of
33:05my history. So the little boy is there kind of as a, as a marker or a reminder of my,
33:11my biography.
33:12And the piece is called Old Boy River, a play on Old Man River. Because in the, in the photo,
33:19if you look at, if you look at the photo of me, I'm a little bit like an old soul
33:22with,
33:23already has a mission in his eyes, which I always liked about it. So I wanted to kind of
33:28bring that into the piece. So old soul, old boy.
33:36Fantastic. So I also like it well, uh, very much that, uh, you know, the three-dimensionality. Right.
33:43Yeah. You got to get closer. Right. Well, the thing about the materials, I like, I do like to layer
33:47it two or three times. I feel like if I get too many on there, it, uh, it doesn't work
33:53as well.
33:54Here we've got three or four layers maybe. Uh, and that, yeah, it does give it a, a 3D effect.
34:00I think
34:01a lot of times just seeing the shadows and the things that come of that kind of can give you
34:08different perspective than, um, than even my, I intended. Like, cause even seeing this come off
34:14a little bit or being a little raised, that gives you dimension. And, uh, you could, and, you know,
34:19I think that one of the things that happens is the viewer can fill in the gaps, you know, like,
34:23what did he mean? What does it mean? Well, you know, it's up to you to, to discover and to
34:29figure out.
34:30That's, that's part of it. Right. You know, you want there to be mysteries for people to find.
34:37I mean, but also like is that, you know, nowadays we, we live in a digital age,
34:41right? Sure. And, uh, it's, it's really, to see these works, it's reminds me of, um, you know, the,
34:49the analog, the, the haptic, uh, things that won't go away because we are very much, um, um, connected
34:57to these things and not only to the, you know, the, the screen, the digital screen.
35:01One of the things I've said a bunch in, when I talk about this work and earlier, when I talked
35:06about my friends who we went into the mills in those, in those early days in the nineties,
35:11the conversations we had was, were that we had to make art by, with our hands now, because in the
35:19future it won't be needed. You won't need to make art with your hands. You'll make it with your
35:24computer. You'll output a canvas. You'll output a collage, you know? So we knew because the computer
35:32age was coming. And in my own, uh, location of graphic design, I started, you know, doing newspapers
35:38on a light table and then I started doing them on a computer. So definitely it was interesting
35:43to say to, or it was definitely compelling to think, you know, we have to make art with our hands.
35:48We're the general last generations where it's going to be most important. And I do think that
35:54that is a valuable to this work. I mean, right now, AI can't make, can't make what I do.
36:01It could do it online, but it can't put them on the wall like this. Right. You know, that's right.
36:07You have to move the, the atoms, someone has said, you know, and, um, of course, maybe someday
36:14the robots can do that too. Maybe too, but not right now. Not right now, but right now we can
36:21still
36:21do it and it's still really important for, for painters and hand crafting people to do, to do it.
36:27Yeah. And I think it's really important for the human being as itself, you know? Uh, I mean,
36:32we can, um, say, okay, robot, do that, do this. Right. But, uh, we ourselves, we need to do something
36:39like that, you know? It's sure we can't give away everything because otherwise we would be,
36:45yeah, what would our existence be? That's right. Well, for me as a, as an artist, I, I get completely
36:52elated and beyond my imagination and my brain when I have this process going. When it becomes
36:59successful, you know, I can get on a very euphoric feeling because of what I've created with my hands
37:06or what I'm seeing. I don't know if I, you know, I don't know how I would get that otherwise.
37:11So
37:12that's really valuable to my everyday life, to what feeds me and makes me interested in a hungry
37:17artist. You know, what can I make to tell, you know, to tell a new story and to say something,
37:23you know, my feeling about all about existence, but especially art or creativity is we're adding to
37:30the dialogue of what it was like to be here now. So that's what I'm doing. I'm this,
37:35whenever I'm gone and whatever people can find, whatever I've left behind, they're going to look
37:39at this work and say, this is what it was like for these people to be here then. That's what
37:44I get
37:45when I look at art or hear old music or things like that. So it's something I think is really
37:49important as an artist to talk about. Like that, that's, that's what I think is really the end result.
37:56Like here's, here's what it was like for us humans now. Yeah. I can reimagine that it's very
38:02satisfying if you finish such a, such a work, you know, um, because as you also said, it's,
38:09you're restricted, you know, you, you, you're restricted in the way that you have a certain
38:15kind of, uh, and, and, uh, you can't change it. Right. And you can just choose others, but you can't
38:21change it. That's right. Yeah. And, uh, if you succeed in, uh, when the, the end result was great,
38:27it must be very satisfying. It is satisfying. And especially as I described, it can take,
38:32it could be laborious and take a long time. And some pieces I would feel like are, are dead and
38:37they're not going to make it. Something new comes along and then they bring them back to life.
38:42So yeah, that is definitely satisfying. It's all, it's also, you know, just finishing something and
38:48thinking, okay, this is different or better, or I'm, I'm, I'm more focused in telling what I want to tell
38:53then that's, you know, another stage or another advancement.
38:59Um, are you, uh, what are you working on at the moment? Do you have new ideas already?
39:06Well, I have some new ideas, but this really was my new work. I mean, I've just finished it really
39:11and delivered it to the gallery about a month ago. So I'm taking a break mentally right now,
39:16because for the last four or five months before that, I was working doggedly. I mean, I never,
39:22every day as long as I could. Um, and in those, in that energy expenditure, you know,
39:30it has to end and then get recharged. So right now, because this work is just done,
39:36I have a couple of things coming up and nothing, not, not like a big exhibition that's going to
39:40require me to do this much next right now. So I will go back and look at some things,
39:46smaller things or things that I want to try to focus on for next time.
39:49You know, this piece, for instance, tells me that, you know, I can do something this large,
39:55larger is probably going to be next, you know, whether it's longer, taller, whatever,
40:00you know, I want, I, as long as I have the material that will oblige, you know, I want to,
40:06I want to, you know, make bigger statements because I think that I'm getting to the point where I can
40:12confidently do that. It's been a process through the years of, you know, where, how far can I get
40:19successfully? And this was my challenge here was to do them as large and as can to make, you know,
40:23something that will, you know, really kind of, you know, take your senses over when you look at it.
40:30That's what I really wanted with this show is that when people leave, they've gone somewhere,
40:35you know, the best exhibitions, the best concerts or performances is when you're in it, you're in
40:41their world. You're not in, you know, the whole, the rest of the world's gone while you're there.
40:46And that's really what I wanted to do here. I wanted people to go through and by the time they
40:50were done, think, oh, I went to a place that this artist has created. That was something that I
40:56really felt I could possibly achieve. How long are you working at, let's say, such a piece?
41:06Months, months for sure. Yeah. And this piece took months to do. And it was based on a photo I
41:11took
41:11myself in Central Park and I developed the drawing. I mean, obviously I improvised it, but what was
41:18important was creating depth. This piece is really interested in trying to create depth of, as I
41:25described with the mill piece, but also the bridge piece, excuse me, is the trees, the study of different
41:33colors of bark, the distances and the different levels of where they are coming, but, and their width.
41:43So this one is off the, off the board. And so you can start seeing how it goes behind. And
41:51I've got a,
41:52you know, what might be a birch tree, different types of barks. So it was really kind of a study
41:57in both
41:57of, of those kinds of problems or, or challenges. And then also to create, you know, a front, a middle,
42:06and a back. That was something, that's something that I think I'm getting a little better with,
42:12with this work. It's not quite as flat. It's not just a one thing. It's, it's trying to get
42:18a little bit of motion. Yeah. That's a nice, nice depth. Yeah. Right. Yeah.
42:24This is a dog. You had, you had a cat? I had a cat, a cat there, a cat in
42:29this one over here. But yeah,
42:29this, this is a found photo, this one here. I found this image in a vintage flea market or something,
42:37this little black and white snapshot. And it was this gentleman and his dog. And I just fell in love
42:44with it because I'm going, I mean, the title of the piece is, Does the Spirit Die? And that's because
42:50when I saw the photo, the, the man, the dog are all long gone. But the love on the picture
42:57was really
42:58palpable. And the first thing I thought of when I saw it was that statement, Does the Spirit Die?
43:04And it really wanted to tell the story. I just, I just fell in love with it. And it's true
43:09that when
43:10I developed the piece, while it wasn't my dog, I did develop the face as myself a little bit,
43:16reminding me of as a younger man, maybe in my thirties or forties. And I think bringing a little
43:24bit of autobiography to the drawing, make it gave me a little bit more of a connection to the piece.
43:29So as I was making it, I was really loving it. And I had done the face a couple of
43:33times. But as
43:34soon as I put the goatee and started the eyes, I thought, Oh, it's me. I didn't realize it and
43:40didn't intend it. But then it really helped me complete the piece and feel like it had connected
43:45the story of the love between the dog and the man. Cool. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thanks.
43:56Do you have something that you want to add? No, I think I've said a good amount. And no,
44:03I just, the show is here through January. And I think you have to see them in person. I think
44:09that's the one thing I would say. Yeah. My work has to be seen in person for people to understand
44:13it
44:13completely. A lot of times people will say, Oh, they look nice online or in your postcards or in a
44:19magazine or something. But I didn't really understand it until I saw it. And I think that
44:24that's the one thing I would say for sure is if, if, if you're interested in what I'm doing,
44:28if you can see them in person, that is one thing I would like you to do is to see
44:32them in person
44:33and to really experience them firsthand, because it's really hard as much as I can explain them.
44:38And you can get a little bit more of that. I think you have to see them in person to
44:41really
44:41understand the history and the composition and the stories. Yeah. I really can recommend that too,
44:48because, uh, uh, you know, uh, on a tiny screen, uh, on Instagram, you might get an idea, but, uh,
44:55it's not the whole story and you have to be here to see it and to experience the space and
45:01also the
45:01three dimensionality of the work. And, uh, so, uh, yeah, you're totally right.
45:06Well, no, a lot of times if I post something on Instagram, like say this big one with all this
45:10intricacy, people don't respond to it because there's too much to see and it's too small.
45:13Whereas if I just do a flower or one face, I get tons of responses because it's immediately,
45:19that recognition is immediate. That's right. Right. So it's, you know, it's, it's difficult,
45:23you know, to, to try to use only that to tell your, to tell your story of what you're doing.
45:28Yeah, absolutely. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Bill, thank you so much.
45:31Thank you so much. It was really a pleasure. And, uh, thank you again for taking the time.
45:34Oh, no, thank you. It's a thrill. And you know, it's, this is what I'm here. You know,
45:38I made the show, we started it. So having you want to do this was really a really great pleasure.
45:44Thank you so much. Thank you. Thanks.
46:49Okay.
47:05And is this where the village boys, right?
47:09Right. I saw that. Okay.
47:13Yeah.
47:21I've done it.
47:25Wow.
47:27Okay.
47:31Yeah.
47:40Okay.
47:48Okay.
47:55Okay.
47:57Okay.
47:57Okay.
47:59Okay.
48:01Okay.
48:10feet and this little boy he's been he's kind of
48:12right
48:16right