- 14 minutes ago
Category
🥇
SportsTranscript
00:00So much adulation over the past several weeks.
00:02The Goodbye Tour has shown as much love as any I've ever seen.
00:09So can we get you to change your mind?
00:11Any chance to get you back for 2027 with the New York Mets?
00:15Let me put it this way.
00:17You see that nice background behind you?
00:19I'll be there in 12 days.
00:21So there's your answer.
00:23Okay.
00:23That was short and sweet.
00:26To the point.
00:26John, we have the great Howie Rose joining us on the show this week.
00:31Yes.
00:32Very happy to have Howie join us.
00:34I know he's been thanked by everybody, but he deserves every bit of it.
00:38And we're going to do the same and ask him all about his career and what's up next for Howie.
00:43We love the guy and we're going to miss him.
00:47Yeah.
00:47I think we probably speak for everyone.
00:49We love him and we're going to miss him.
00:51We'll ask him hopefully all the pertinent stuff about his career and what's next for Howie Rose.
00:56John and I will talk a lot about an interesting week for the Mets and Yankees at the top.
01:00We know a little more about Aaron Judge, regardless of how much the Yankees don't want us to know it.
01:05We know a lot more about Andy Green and his future.
01:07John and I will play hit and error at the end if you stick with us on the show with
01:12Joel Sherman and John Haven.
01:18John, since last we spoke, we had a bit of major news in the New York market.
01:26It's funny.
01:27Two interim managers were named full time on the same day.
01:30Chad Tracy with the Red Sox, which I think was anticipated and expected with how great the Red Sox had
01:35played under him.
01:36And they're going to the playoffs, almost certainly playing the Yankees.
01:39And then Andy Green with the Mets.
01:42And I have to say, John, just as a way to open this up and lob it towards you is
01:45I kind of anticipated this also to the point where the last time I was out at Citi Field, which
01:51was over the weekend, I asked Andy and others.
01:53I didn't get great answers.
01:54I said, aren't you just going to be the manager of the team?
01:58And everybody I asked said, why?
02:00And I said, I don't know.
02:01Like, fortunately, I don't run a major league baseball team.
02:04But if I did and I knew, for example, the Phillies, the Mariners, the Astros, et cetera, are going to
02:10all be looking for managers this offseason, perhaps.
02:13Why am I not using these two months?
02:15Why am I not interviewing Albert Pujols and David Ross and Rocco Bildel?
02:19In other words, get a jump on everyone.
02:20What if I fall in love?
02:21I could do that.
02:22The fact you haven't means you probably want the guy who's here and you're trying to talk him into it.
02:27And nobody gave me a really great answer for why that wasn't happening.
02:31So I just said, I assume it's going to be Andy Green.
02:35I think we both think it's the right move.
02:38Why don't I let you go first on that, John, because you wrote a good column on it in the
02:41post.
02:41Yeah.
02:42You know, I thought this from the beginning.
02:45I finally, over the last few weeks, said, well, I guess maybe they're really not bringing him back.
02:50I didn't quite get it.
02:53It seemed like it was obvious.
02:56And they weren't saying anything that had changed from they expected him to go back to the front office, at
03:03least publicly, at least what we heard.
03:05But, I mean, it made sense.
03:07The guy's done a very good job.
03:09They're 500 now.
03:10I mean, this is a team that was terrible before he took over, that traded away its four best relievers,
03:17plus its best starter, plus Tyrone Taylor, who's been fantastic for the Cubs, by the way.
03:24You know, they made a bunch of trades.
03:25They don't have a great team at this moment.
03:28Certainly do not.
03:29And he's done a very good job.
03:32And there's no – I never really got the – I believe he's a strong family man.
03:38I get that.
03:39But his daughters are in the senior year of high school.
03:42He's about to be an empty nester.
03:44So I really never got that.
03:46I just think he didn't want to apply and be rejected.
03:48So they did it quietly.
03:50He said he'd be interested and got it done.
03:53But, yeah, I didn't – I thought he did a great job, should be the guy, and I also didn't
04:00have any faith that they were going to find anybody better than him.
04:03Yeah, I think, John, you hit the major points.
04:05I'll try a few also.
04:08I think in an offseason where they probably have a lot to do, taking a major thing off the table
04:13with somebody who has these qualities, literally from the Dominican Sumber League to Juan Soto.
04:21He now knows every player in the organization well, right?
04:24He was the farm director at a moment where they seemed committed to bring a lot of people through the
04:29system.
04:30They did with five major players this year.
04:34They made a bunch of trades at the deadline that's going to be more young players.
04:38He has great familiarity with this group.
04:41He obviously has a great working relationship with David Stearns.
04:46To be around him in these months, I guess – I know it's a honeymoon.
04:50There was no pressure.
04:51You know, like they're 500.
04:53They almost had to be 500.
04:54To me, they had enough talent to be at least 500 for the whole season.
04:57So I don't want to give too many extra points.
04:59This is the honeymoon.
05:00We'll see what it's like when spring training, whenever that begins next year, begins.
05:04And it's like, hey, man, now you got to – 500 isn't going to be good enough.
05:07You got to win.
05:08But he handles the New York market well, which is me and you and all the noise and all the
05:14fans and et cetera.
05:16He seems very comfortable with it.
05:17And, John, I think you said the bigger point.
05:20They were going to me – and I think you and I agreed on this.
05:22Tell me if I'm wrong.
05:23They were going to have to bring in somebody who had managerial experience in the past.
05:27I think that the job is big enough that to try to do this cold again was going to be
05:32a mistake.
05:34And that was going to be guesswork.
05:36Do you really like Rocco Bell, Dilly?
05:37Do you really like David Ross?
05:39Do you really like – et cetera.
05:41Go through it.
05:41Don Bang, Alex Gore.
05:43This was a guy you're comfortable with.
05:45Like, there's less guesswork here.
05:48And I just think that it's the right move for a bunch of reasons.
05:54Yeah, absolutely.
05:56I don't know if they're going to have time, right?
05:58I mean, we're going to have a month before the sport is shut down.
06:01They're going to need to get better players.
06:03Obviously, their team isn't good enough.
06:04Yeah.
06:04And it's mostly about the players.
06:06You know, I kind of – I espouse, you know, a long shot.
06:10I didn't believe that they were really going to go after Alex Cora.
06:12But give that one a shot.
06:14If not, definitely bring Green back.
06:17I mean, Alex Cora is a proven manager.
06:20I don't know that they were going to be enthused about Cora, Pujols, or Beltran,
06:25despite Beltran saying that they had talked to him at some point.
06:29I wouldn't have been enthused about Beltran.
06:32You know, I just think he doesn't have the right disposition.
06:37Not a bad guy, but way too thin-skinned for this job as the New York Mets manager.
06:44It's not an easy job.
06:46And, you know, he's already got not great working relationships, not working.
06:52He has no relationship, I think, with many of the –
06:54at least the older writers who've been around.
06:57You know, he had issues in the past.
06:59Yeah, so I didn't get that one.
07:02You know, he had been the manager briefly, sort of.
07:05He didn't get to manage a game, but was let go or resigned because of the scandal in Houston.
07:11You know, to think that he's the guy answered, that made no sense.
07:15I think the Mets probably agreed with that, ultimately.
07:18I mean, Albert Pujols did a good job with the Dominican team.
07:21I think he'll be a good manager, but I don't believe that they were ever going to go for that.
07:27You know, he interviewed with the Angels and with the Padres.
07:30And what I'd heard was that he wanted not only $6 million salary, which obviously the Mets can afford,
07:37he wanted control of everything.
07:39You know, they weren't going to love that for a guy who has not had any experience.
07:43I mean, you know, certainly if in this prime, Tony La Russa came and said,
07:49I want control or something like that, I'd get it.
07:51But a guy who had no major league managing experience.
07:54So, I mean, you know, those are the guys that would have probably excited some portion of the fan base.
08:01I know this isn't probably thrilling to some portion of the fan base or maybe most of it,
08:07but it's a very solid pick.
08:09And this way they don't waste time when they've got bigger fish to fry.
08:13Yeah, I never got the Beltran thing.
08:15Like, the Mets have a step on the banana peel history.
08:20And part of it is that Carlos Beltran was hired as manager and never got to the start line.
08:25Do you really want to go, like, revisit a step on the banana peel moment?
08:29Plus, you know, you just put him in your Hall of Fame.
08:31I understand he's not Buster Posey.
08:33But, you know, like, it's going to be, at some point, you're probably going to have to fire the guy.
08:39And that's going to be uncomfortable.
08:40And, look, I didn't even understand.
08:42I get it.
08:43If you make the Hall of Fame, I guess you get your number retired.
08:45But, like, if I went to my best friend as a Met fan, I was with him over the weekend
08:50at his new house.
08:51And I was saying to him, like, let's go over the things you remember most about the Carlos Beltran.
08:56I go, number one is he didn't swing at Adam Wainwright.
08:59I don't think many players would have.
09:00It was a great pitch.
09:01Number two is he collided headfirst with Mike Cameron.
09:04And number three was he got fired before he was hired.
09:07Those are the first three things you think about with him.
09:09And, I mean, I'm confused.
09:15And, by the way, he is one of the greatest players in their history.
09:19But it's not like – again, my best friend is a huge Met fan.
09:23It isn't like he – this is – it isn't like Gary Carter to him or Keith Hernandez or Doc
09:28Gooden or Darryl Strawberry.
09:29Like, it just – David Wright.
09:31Anyway.
09:33No, I mean, it certainly isn't.
09:35I mean, let me just say – I mean, it certainly is not like that.
09:38The Mets fans were not excited about the number retiring.
09:41They might have liked the excitement of having a Hall of Famer be the manager briefly, whatever.
09:46I just don't think it was the right pick.
09:49And, you know, I think they made the right pick, and that's it.
09:51Yeah, the Yankees are heading to the playoffs.
09:55They're not doing it on the most stable ground, notably because, look, the Yankees go all CIA when it comes
10:07to Aaron Judge.
10:08Aaron Boone loses his tongue a little bit, maybe some credibility when he talks about Judge and injuries.
10:17I mean, we're going to keep playing this game that the manager of the team doesn't know the grade of
10:21the cap injury.
10:22I mean, what a kind of clown joke do we think he's running here.
10:25Like the other – yesterday, he finally gave in and called it, quote-unquote, moderate.
10:30That's like a friend of mine saying, my politics are moderate.
10:32Yeah, that means you don't want to tell me what you believe, you know.
10:36I mean, does it mean it's a grade two?
10:38I think it's a grade one, two, or three.
10:40Maybe – I'm assuming moderate means two, but we don't really know.
10:43I'm guessing, you know.
10:44It's not really –
10:46But, you know, what difference does it make if it's one, two, or three?
10:49I don't know.
10:49What difference does it make if it's Myrtle one, two, or Manslow?
10:52I mean, things make a difference what grade you're doing.
10:55It's a difference between he has a chance to play again this year or he doesn't have a chance to
10:59play.
10:59At least he opened up the door to it's highly unlikely to play against Boston.
11:03I would think it would be a baseball miracle, calf injuries.
11:08Juan Soto had a not very significant one and was out for three weeks.
11:14And Francisco Lindor had a significant one, was out for more than two months.
11:18So, like, obviously there's wide berths of possibilities here.
11:21I think it would be shocking if he played against Boston.
11:23Don't forget Stanton.
11:24And I won't forget about Stanton.
11:25I saw him running on the field yesterday.
11:27I don't know what that means.
11:28Okay.
11:29But, look, Judge isn't going to play.
11:31So, I guess the question – is he going to play against at least Boston?
11:34And I would be even surprised if they advanced if he made it to Tampa Bay and played on their
11:39turf, etc.
11:40So, John, what are the Yankees heading into these playoffs that will at least begin, we believe, without their most
11:49important player?
11:50Yeah.
11:51I mean, first on Judge, you know, even if there's some miracle and he can come back for that second
11:56series and, you know,
11:57they haven't completely ruled out the first one, but they're as good as have done that.
12:02But even if he can, you know, he – what was he, 4 for 23 or something with a –
12:07you know, without much practice?
12:10You know, he had hit against some live pitching, a little bit of practice, but now he's going to be
12:14completely out of practice.
12:16One of their strengths is the DH.
12:18Is he going to be better than the DH, you know, that they have?
12:22I mean, I'm assuming he's not playing in the outfield, but, you know, could he be a pinch –
12:27I'm envisioning, you know, the Kirk Gibson pinch hitting, hitting that massive home run in 1988.
12:35You know, that's it.
12:36You know, I mean, he's not going to be a full player.
12:38I don't see how that's going to happen.
12:41It's in a bad spot.
12:42The soleus, which we're learning about muscle, is near the Achilles, so it seems like a risk.
12:48I don't want to take a risk for a guy who is really out of practice at this point, so
12:54I don't see how this is going to happen.
12:57As far as the team goes, I mean, I think they're going to have to ride on their pitching.
13:02Their ERA is the best in baseball.
13:04They have arguably the best rotation that is healthy now and ready to go, and they are in a very
13:11weak league, and they could run through it and win it.
13:14Now, obviously, we're seeing Tampa, and they're reminding us again how good they are.
13:19You know, I don't know that the Yankees are the absolute favorite, but it's either them or Tampa.
13:25But they've got some interesting decisions to make, too.
13:29It's not a set lineup at this point, and I think they think it's a set rotation.
13:35I would throw a monkey wrench into that rotation.
13:39I don't know about you.
13:39Rodon has been so good.
13:41I've got to give him one of the starts.
13:43I doubt that will happen.
13:45I'm sure that Cole will get a start, I would think.
13:48What are your thoughts on all that?
13:50Yeah, well, there's a lot there.
13:52Why don't we start with the rotation first?
13:54The question you have to ask is, who's starting game two?
13:57Look, I know I've heard a lot of people.
13:59And by the way, there are some Tampa people who think Garrett Cole still might start game one of, like
14:05when I asked some of their advanced guys, like start game one against Boston to have Schlittler in two to
14:10either finish it off or save their season.
14:13I don't believe that.
14:14I think Schlittler will start game one.
14:15And then the question becomes, when you talk about Rodon, the only short way to line up to make sure
14:21you're pitching in the first round is to be the game two starter.
14:24And I think the game two starter is going to be Cole, because I think Aaron Boone's making the decision.
14:29And in his baseball heart, he's going to believe the right guy to go to is Cole, though Cole has
14:34a very spotty history against Boston.
14:36And I think that he feels that I think they would feel if they get out of that series.
14:43Rodon has a history of pitching very well against Tampa, including yesterday when he was as good as I've seen
14:49him in his four years as a Yankee.
14:50He was so precise and hot with his fastball and his whole repertoire.
14:54He was really good.
14:55So I think they would line up that way.
14:57John, to me, the problem is almost every place else.
15:00That's not like kind of Austin Wells behind the plate and they're just sloppy on defense again.
15:06I think Ryan McMahon has become unplayable.
15:09We already knew he couldn't hit.
15:10You can't play him if he's not going to field.
15:13They treat every bunt play like there's a live hand grenade in the middle of the infield.
15:17And it's embarrassing.
15:20And if they get to Tampa Bay where the Rays have the best record in the majors at home and
15:25take advantage of their roof and the spongy field and the weird contours, etc.
15:29The, you know, the scaffolding, you know, they were five and they won the division fair and square.
15:35They were five and one against the Yankees in St. Petersburg this year.
15:38The Yankees are going to have real trouble.
15:40The Rays put the ball in play.
15:42Lowest strikeout rate.
15:43Most stolen bases in the American League.
15:45They run the base.
15:46They scored against Spencer Jones, who treated a ground ball to center field like, hey, I guess I could have
15:51a picnic in between here.
15:52And a guy scored from first base yesterday on a single to center field with two outs.
15:56Was he surprised that the Rays were going to try to score a guy?
15:59Like, they are just not alert.
16:01And they're not sharp.
16:04And the Rays are, they have two terrible matchups.
16:07All the Red Sox lefty pitching and all the Rays putting the ball in play for them to get to
16:12the softer part of the American League playoffs, which is who comes out of the other side if they can
16:16get there.
16:16Yeah, I mean, it's an unfortunate gauntlet.
16:21They end up having to go through right for them.
16:23Even though the American League is terrible, Boston is tough.
16:26And Tampa is very tough.
16:28And I'm just not going to give up on my point on Rodon.
16:31You know, I think the good outings against Tampa.
16:34So would you start him in two?
16:36I would start him in two.
16:38Yeah, now I would start him in two.
16:39So you'd go Schlittler-Rodon.
16:41Originally, I said I'd give him three instead of Cole.
16:45But I would go with Rodon.
16:46Rodon has been the guy who's been – I mean, Schlittler has been the best one.
16:50There's no question.
16:51And he shouldn't start one.
16:52I don't know what the Tampa people are saying.
16:53And maybe it looks like it lines up that way.
16:56They can rejigger it.
16:57I mean, you've got to start your best pitcher in game one.
16:59You want him to start – you're hoping and assuming you're going to have another series.
17:03And you want him starting the most games, right?
17:06You know, you've got to put him at number one.
17:08I don't know.
17:09Tampa people, I don't know if they're trying to trick the Yankees.
17:11I don't know.
17:12Who knows?
17:12They're very smart.
17:14But I do think Schlittler should be one.
17:16And Rodon, I mean, his ERA is 189 over seven starts and a 146 batting average.
17:22I believe that more than whether he's good against this team or that team or the other team.
17:26Cole's ERA over five starts is over five.
17:29And he's given up eight home runs in his last three starts.
17:32You know, he's obviously a very talented guy.
17:36He's a former Cy Young winner.
17:37Anyway, so I would go with Rodon.
17:39I'm with you on McMahon.
17:40I love the guy.
17:41But 73 OPS plus, he's not playing well now.
17:45I could see him just being benched.
17:47I mean, at the very least, they're going to platoon him.
17:50But at this point, I wouldn't be shocked if he was benched.
17:53And second base is interesting, too.
17:56I mean, I guess we think it's going to be Jazz.
17:58But they love Volpe, right?
18:00Volpe played over Caballero.
18:03You think Volpe will be a platoon at second?
18:05I hear speculation about Volpe at third.
18:08I don't love that when he had three games in AAA.
18:11I could see Volpe platooning with Jazz, though.
18:13And at third, I could see Caballero playing half the time or all the time.
18:18Yeah.
18:18Well, again, there's a lot there, John.
18:19So let me offer this.
18:22Is the Yankees now have, is it five games left, six games, two and three, five games left?
18:30It's a five-game exhibition season.
18:33I think Volpe will play third base two or three times just to look at it.
18:37Maybe not whole games.
18:39I, at this point, do not see a reason to put Ryan McMahon even on the roster against the Red
18:46Sox.
18:47I would just play Caballero at third base, and I'd get some time in for Volpe here.
18:52I still have Rosario if I need it.
18:54It's all that lefty pitching.
18:55I'm not going to use him anyway.
18:57And I would rather blind, if I'm going to have to have a guy on the bench, then I'll just
19:01put Grisham on the roster.
19:02If I ever get to a left-handed pinch hit, I'd rather have Grisham, if he's ready, be the guy
19:08sitting on the bench to lefty pinch hit.
19:09I'll just use all the other guys at third base.
19:12And as far as second base, I think this is an interesting five days for Chisholm.
19:17The at-bats didn't look good yesterday.
19:18He was the guy who botched the, I mean, I don't know if there's anything more worrisome about the squeeze
19:26play the Rays did than Aaron Boone saying after the game, we knew it was coming.
19:30By the way, you could ask Dan Martin.
19:33I knew it was coming also.
19:34I turned to Dan and said, you know, they're going to squeeze here, right?
19:37It's Taylor Walls.
19:38He's like the number one bunter in the sport, the number nine hitter on a team that wants the Yankees
19:42to field the ball.
19:43And they knew it was coming, and Jazz still didn't cover first base.
19:49So they're just a technical nightmare again.
19:54And I think Jazz, over the next five days, you mentioned that Judge missing a lot of time.
20:00His timing was off.
20:01He didn't come back.
20:02Are we going to see Jazz be able to – it wasn't a good year already.
20:05Is he going to do anything?
20:07I think he has to play a lot in these last four or five days because, yes, he's the kind
20:11of guy who could change a series by popping a homer.
20:14But, like, if I'm not going to get his full attention, I'm just going to play as much defense as
20:18possible behind the very good rotation and hope I score three or four runs and it's enough.
20:23That's what I would do.
20:24And I would get out of the business of playing unthinking bad defenders.
20:29The problem is the Yankees can't put a team on the field without putting some of those kind of guys.
20:34Unless the ball's hit to Bellinger or Wells is handling the ball, they have a lot of defensive problems.
20:40Or Goldschmidt is playing first base.
20:42Yeah, well, Garcia's been a little better than we were – it was advertised.
20:46I'll give him that.
20:47Yeah, it's fine, but he stopped hitting.
20:49Yeah, no, that's true.
20:50He did stop hitting.
20:51I mean, Jazz gives you both ends of it, right?
20:53He gives you great and he gives you not great.
20:56And, you know, he's been out a while.
20:58He hasn't had a good year.
21:01So, you know, Boone certainly – I wouldn't say he threw him under the bus.
21:05He was honest about what happened on that play.
21:07Obviously, it was a mistake.
21:09I don't know.
21:10So, that's an interesting one for me because I do think he does love Volpe.
21:14We saw that as he played Volpe over Caballero at second base for a long time.
21:24Yeah, they got a lot of tough choices for a team that won 90 games.
21:28It's pretty unsettled, and I'm not going to give up my Rodon, but I think it's a lost cause, right?
21:34No, they're going to go with Cole as the game two starter, I think, right?
21:39Or two or three.
21:41Freed's pretty good, too.
21:43I would think that's the way.
21:46Really, maybe the biggest story this week, John, was that Howie Rose ended a very, very distinguished career in the
21:57park in the radio booth for the Mets, and he's kind enough to join us next on the show.
22:07You know, it's always my job to do this introduction up front, and I don't even know how to do
22:12this.
22:13How do you introduce, you know, set up Howie Rose?
22:17Do I do a matto matto?
22:18Do I do put it in the books?
22:20Do I talk about what an incredible decades-long career, especially in the Mets broadcast booth consistently since 1995?
22:28I think that's the place, but I think that the number one thing is Howie's words himself.
22:34I was at his end-of-the-year press conference, his end-of-career press conference, and he mentioned, he
22:40used the term, I'm one of you.
22:42I'm one of us.
22:43I was in the upper deck at Chase Stadium.
22:46I grew up, and Howie, you brought the sound of the fan expertly to the booth and made the soundtrack
22:55of the summer for people who were and weren't Mets fans for decades, and I think that's how I want
23:00to set it up and say a big thank you, I hope, for not just us, but for everyone for
23:06doing that.
23:07Well, that's so nice, and it's great to be with you, Joel and John, and it's been a whirlwind last
23:13couple of weeks, as you can imagine, but I appreciate those sentiments because that's what I've always tried to do.
23:19I couldn't help myself anyway.
23:21You know, involuntarily, I was going to essentially behave with the sensibilities of someone who grew up as a kid
23:30loving the Mets and as a broadcaster having the privilege to work for them.
23:33So, yeah, I'm, as I've said often, kindred spirits with everybody in the ballpark.
23:38Well, congratulations.
23:39Amazing, amazing career.
23:41You're just a terrific broadcaster and a great voice.
23:44Thanks, John.
23:45Howie, really, we really all appreciate you.
23:48So much adulation over the past several weeks.
23:51The Goodbye Tour has been, has shown as much love as any I've ever seen.
23:57So, can we get you to change your mind?
23:59Any chance to get you back for 2027 with the New York Mets?
24:04Well, let me put it this way.
24:05You see that nice background behind you?
24:07I'll be there in, what, 12 days.
24:10So, there's your answer.
24:11Okay.
24:12That was short and sweet.
24:14To the point.
24:18Howie, you know what's good is to have the Huck Finn-Tom Sawyer moment where you get to hear your
24:22eulogy and you're still alive.
24:24And I think that that's kind of like what's happened here is you got to see how much everyone loves
24:29and respects you.
24:30And I just wonder, you mentioned you used the term whirlwind.
24:33What do you think will stick with you out of this?
24:36Did you hear from somebody who you didn't expect?
24:38Did somebody's words resonate more?
24:41Take it wherever you want.
24:42The totality of it.
24:44What is going to resonate for Howie Rose?
24:46I can respond to that in two different ways.
24:51I can be comprehensive and long-winded and detailed.
24:57And sure, there are a lot of people that I heard from, some of whom I don't necessarily communicate with
25:03regularly.
25:04But I'm going to distill it all down to one four-letter word, love.
25:09Because to have absorbed the amount of love, and I can't pretend that that's not the most relevant word to
25:17describe all of this, that I've absorbed all of that over this last little while has, that's what's going to
25:24endure.
25:25That's what gets me emotional.
25:27And that's what's going to stay with me forever.
25:29Because it's returned in kind.
25:32And I mean, that's the key right there.
25:35That's what brings it all together.
25:36What those fans have directed towards me, and the kind words of both of you and so many others in
25:44the media, have done the same.
25:47But my appreciation for that, and my, again, love for all of them and you and it, reverberate and always
25:58will above and beyond anything else.
25:59You know, I think we know what your highlight was announcing the Rangers, and certainly the Matteau call enhanced that
26:07great Stanley Cup championship in 1994 for the New York team.
26:13But you haven't been as lucky with the Mets.
26:15What's your Mets highlight or favorite calls over your decades with the Mets?
26:21Well, look, some of the highlights, if you will, are the obvious ones that have been brought up recently.
26:28But one thing that really didn't get a lot of play, because I have said it to a lot of
26:32people, my favorite call, just sort of pound for pound, might actually be the Lindor Grand Slam against the Phillies
26:41just two years ago in the Division Series.
26:43One of the reasons for that is because it was at home, you know, and look, Pete's home run was
26:49a gigantic moment, and it was a fun call to make, and the reaction on the plane was nuts.
26:54That was all special.
26:56But I put that on its own separate shelf.
26:58What I very, very selfishly and personally liked about the Lindor call was, again, A, it was at home, so
27:05the backdrop was different.
27:06The sound was different, but, and I hope I'm not overstepping my bounds by saying this, but it was the
27:13one and probably only time in my career where words came out of my mouth, and I said, ooh, I
27:20like that.
27:21And that's, to me, to me, but this is the key to it, because as I look back on it,
27:27I thought, wow, you know, you might have just had your one and only Vin Scully moment.
27:32Because, and I'm not comparing myself to Vin, let me just get that right out front, but the lyricism of
27:40Vin Scully is what so many of us embrace in this business, aspire to, and ultimately fall short.
27:46When Vin called Kirk Gibson's home run on the World Series in 1988, the winner in Game 1 against Eckersley
27:53and the A's, it's not just the ways, it's not what you say as much as sometimes it is the
27:58way you say it, the inflection.
28:01And so as Gibson was routing the bases, and Vin said, in a season that's been so improbable, the impossible
28:09has happened.
28:10See the inflection there?
28:11That kind of sells the moment above and beyond the obvious.
28:14And, again, this just came to me because the Mets had been leaving runners on base two and three per
28:19inning for about five innings, going into the bottom of the sixth inning of that game against the Phillies.
28:24They're trailing one to nothing.
28:25They've got the bases loaded.
28:27And you're thinking, is this another here we go again moment?
28:30Until Francisco breaks through, hits the grand slam.
28:33And as he's rounding the bases, I punctuated it by saying they were famished for the big hit all night.
28:39And Francisco Lindor just provided a feast.
28:42And when that came out of my mouth, I went, ooh, yeah, I kind of like that.
28:46And thinking back on it, I thought, if I can ever take anything from Vin Scully and utilize it within
28:55a broadcast of my own, I'll settle for that one.
28:59You know, Howie, there's another area I could thank you.
29:03Having you and Gary Cohn around for the 30 years I've been a columnist in the city is I can't
29:09tell people how many times I turned to one or the other of you where I was going to try
29:13to do something historical.
29:15And I said, do I have it right?
29:17Because it's better than, trust me, an encyclopedia or Wikipedia, you and Gary.
29:22I mean, it's unbelievable.
29:23You're even at your press conference at the end of the year, you're telling the stuck elevator story from 1962.
29:28Your voluminous knowledge is great.
29:32And I wonder if I could turn to you for a bigger picture Met thing.
29:35John asked an interesting question here.
29:37You know, he said, obviously, there was the Stanley Cup run with the thing.
29:40There hasn't been a lot with the Mets because they haven't been good.
29:43And they've been bizarrely, like, mistake prone as far as, like, clownish and stuff along those lines, like, turned the
29:50wrong way all the time.
29:51You're an historian.
29:53You've watched it up close from the beginning.
29:55Why can't the organization get it right?
29:57Do you have a gut about, like, if you were advising them on the way out, like, you're trying again,
30:02right, sticking with David Stearns, trying with Andy Green.
30:05Why can they not consistently win for this really a great fan base that includes you?
30:11Well, look, I would go back to 1987 and really almost the immediate aftermath of winning the World Series in
30:211986.
30:22Every team goes through their ups and downs, or at least most of them do, over an extended period of
30:27time.
30:27And so it was with the Mets.
30:29They needed an ownership change when it came along in 1980.
30:33The Seaver trade absolutely dragged that franchise through the mud.
30:37They were underfunded, undercapitalized, overmatched as far as ownership was concerned.
30:42They finally sold, and the Doubleday-Wilpon ownership began, thanks to Frank Cashin, to build something and ultimately build something
30:52that, at least for that one year and a couple of years building up to it, looked great.
30:57When they left Shea Stadium and left City Hall after the parade in 1986, you thought this team was in
31:05great position to win multiple championships.
31:08And so what happened?
31:11Systematically, and I've had my back and forth discussions with some of those who were involved in the decisions, but
31:17I said, and I will maintain, that Frank Cashin and Davy Johnson had a less than harmonious relationship.
31:28That was a wild bunch, as you well know.
31:30And my feeling is that once they won that World Series, Frank Cashin said, okay, now we're going to do
31:38it my way.
31:39And they began to systematically extract and eliminate a lot of what made that team special.
31:46And so on paper, the deal for Kevin McReynolds looked great, but Kevin McReynolds didn't love baseball.
31:54I don't even think it was so much about the fans got on him and he didn't like New York.
31:58I don't even think it was that.
31:59He didn't like baseball.
32:01So in the vernacular of the times, and maybe it was a couple of years ahead from 87, Frank wanted
32:06to build a kinder, gentler team.
32:09And it didn't work.
32:11And from there on in, it almost seemed as though once that 86 team started to fall apart, that's when
32:20you wondered if they'd ever really climb out of that.
32:23And look, obviously, when Nadoff hit, it looked like they were in position again, you know, 06.
32:31They have a great year.
32:32Should have won the whole thing that year, as far as I'm concerned.
32:35But stuff happens.
32:36And most of the stuff that happened in 06 was on the field, injury related.
32:41Next year was even worse.
32:43They didn't even have a bullpen going down the stretch in 08.
32:46They lost leads both years.
32:47And I don't know.
32:49Look, I grew up a Ranger fan as passionately as I grew up a Mets fan.
32:53I was convinced that they were jinxed and cursed until that final faceoff in Game 7 against Vancouver when they
33:01finally won the Stanley Cup.
33:02So it's easy for me now to sit back and say, you know what, for all the mistakes they've made,
33:07they're just cursed.
33:08They're not cursed.
33:09Sooner or later, the right blend and mix will come along and they'll win.
33:13I hope it's next year.
33:15But sooner or later, it's going to happen.
33:17And, you know, the morning after the Rangers won the Cup, I called friends I knew who were Boston Red
33:22Sox and Chicago Cubs fans.
33:23And I said, now I'm telling you, your time will come.
33:27And guess what?
33:28It did.
33:28Right?
33:29It did.
33:30I love your optimism.
33:32One of the things I admire about you is you didn't just show up at game time or near game
33:36time and get behind the mic and start talking.
33:39You are actually in that clubhouse and at the press conferences, talking to the managers, talking to the players.
33:44Maybe this is a main personal question.
33:47I'm curious, you know, who are your favorite players, not only to root for, but who are your favorite players
33:53and managers to deal with?
33:56Well, I love the old school guys because I guess I'm old school too.
34:02And those are the guys I relate to best.
34:03As I started to get older, I found myself having a little less in common with the players just based
34:10on age and getting a lot closer to coaches and managers than when I had broken in.
34:17Davey Johnson and Terry Collins are right at the top of that list.
34:21And I'll start real quickly with Davey because I'm not sure I ever would have been able to establish myself
34:28as a play-by-play broadcaster without the guidance and tutelage of Davey Johnson.
34:34Because he and I did a pregame radio show together that I would put up against any work I've ever
34:40done or any pregame show that's ever been aired in baseball.
34:42Because he allowed me to ask the questions that you guys would, the beat writers would, and he gave very,
34:50very candid answers.
34:51But with Davey, we just established a rapport to where the best stuff happened before I turned the tape recorder
34:57on and after I turned it off.
34:59And all I'm saying by that is that he allowed me to pick his brain.
35:04I learned so much about how a manager organizes a game, who's available and why, who's having personal issues, and
35:13he's not going to announce they might not be available or might not be a little under-motivated or whatever.
35:19But he just taught me so much.
35:21And it was really very much the same thing with Terry.
35:23With Terry, though, and you might remember this, we'd all be in his office for a little press briefing before
35:29every game.
35:30Then the writers would leave.
35:32Terry would shut the door.
35:33He wanted us, the broadcasters, to stay with him so that he could tell us what's going on with the
35:39club because he trusted us.
35:40So that we wouldn't burn him by revealing any state secrets on the air, but we morphed from the basic
35:47stuff about that particular game into stories.
35:50And nobody tells stories better than Terry Collins.
35:54Man, did I love my time with him, and I'm still in touch with him, and he's one of the
35:58all-time great guys.
36:01You know what, since you named two managers, I did notice on social media yesterday you gave a very big
36:06thumbs up to Andy Green getting the full-time job.
36:10Why?
36:10What did you learn about him along the way here?
36:13Well, one thing in particular, and it actually harkens back to Davey Johnson and Mel Stottlemyre.
36:18If you remember the Mets of 1984 and 85, when they were breaking in all those terrific young pitchers, Doc
36:26and Ron Darling and Sid Fernandez and, you know, Rick Aguilera a little bit later on.
36:33Bobby O'Header, of course, was established.
36:34But what was the mandate then?
36:39It was particularly in 84, when they were just breaking through, get these kids off the mound in the best
36:45position to go home and feel great about their game.
36:48And that's what I love about what Andy Green has done.
36:51But he does it with a little different sort of philosophy in that he'll push players when he sees the
36:58opportunity to challenge them.
37:00And sometimes when you do that, you know, you get great results.
37:04And I'll use A.J. Ewing as a perfect example of that.
37:07You know, he was really struggling for a period of about four weeks, five weeks, up until pretty recently.
37:15And Andy decided to keep running him out there.
37:17He'd sit him against certain left-handers who he felt he might not have had a lot of success with.
37:23But at the same time, he was going to let him play his way out of the lineup.
37:27And at the same time, show him that he had the confidence in him that he would break through this.
37:33So he saw a little hole in the schedule where they had a day off following a game against a
37:38lefty starter.
37:39And Andy said, OK, I'll give him two days.
37:41And I'm telling you, it's like been magic.
37:43Ever since those two days, A.J. Ewing has been as good as he's been all year.
37:48And I look at it from a pitching standpoint as it pertains to Zach Thornton.
37:52Remember the game at Yankee Stadium just about a week and a half ago when he pushed Zach.
37:58He challenged him.
37:59He went out to the mound when he could have changed pitchers.
38:01Anthony Volpe was coming up.
38:02The bases were loaded.
38:04I think the Mets had a three or four run lead.
38:06But, you know, a lot of managers would say, OK, I'm not going to let him throw that one extra
38:11pitch that turns this entire game on its head.
38:13So he goes out to the mound.
38:15He basically was out there probably for 20 seconds, maybe even less.
38:19He said, you feel good?
38:20You still got something?
38:21Can you get this guy?
38:22Zach said, yeah.
38:24What happens?
38:24He gets Volpe to hit into a double play.
38:27Zach Thornton left that mound as animated and excited as he ever has been in his entire life.
38:33And he told me the next morning at Yankee Stadium that thanks to Andy Green, he feels that he grew
38:39up just by throwing that one double play ball.
38:42And that's what I love about Andy.
38:43He's got such a great feel for his players.
38:46We're all in agreement that Andy Green was the right move for this team at this point.
38:51What else does this team need to do?
38:52It's still, even though Green's done a terrific job, it's only played 500 ball with him and it's still many
38:57games under 500.
38:59So it's still not a good team.
39:01What would you emphasize in this offseason, which might be a quick offseason and then, you know, you might have
39:07two offseasons, but they don't have a lot of time.
39:09They've got to figure it out quick.
39:11Well, let's start with infield defense.
39:14You know, for all that David talked about regarding run prevention going into last offseason, it didn't work.
39:20And they've got to figure that out because I think in addition to some of the obvious holds that they've
39:26had defensively and Jared Young, you know, did a really nice job at first base.
39:30I'm not sure they go into the offseason thinking Jared is definitely a left-handed part of a first base
39:36platoon.
39:38I think Mark Vientos probably is a guy who needs a change of scenery.
39:42And I think in a private moment, he'd probably admit that, too.
39:46First base is going to be a little bit of a hole.
39:48What does Marcus Simeon have left?
39:51Do you run him back out there next year?
39:53There's still money you'd have to swallow there if they're inclined not to do so.
39:59Got a couple of kids on the way up.
40:01I don't know that they'd necessarily fit a second base.
40:03They've got three or four kids, most of whom were picked up at the trade deadline, who might be candidates.
40:08I saw, I don't know if it was one of you guys, somebody wrote just the other day that maybe
40:13second base is in Bo Bichette's future if he stays, if he opts in.
40:18And if there's another answer at third base.
40:20There's just so much confusion to me in terms of establishing who's going to be on the infield.
40:25And then the other part of that is Francisco Lindor is going to be 33 next year.
40:30And this was his poorest season defensively.
40:32So to me, there's one huge question mark having to do with the infield and particularly the infield defense.
40:39They've got a rebuildable pen.
40:43I don't know that you can really improve much behind the plate.
40:48You know, now again, Francisco Alvarez is starting to swing the bat a little bit.
40:53If anybody were inclined to think maybe it's time to move him, well, where do you go?
40:57Where do you find catching?
40:58Probably the toughest commodity you find in this game right now.
41:01I'm bullish on the fact that I think they've established a pretty good young core on the mound.
41:06And so, you know, you could legitimately say that between McLean, Scott, obviously, Zach Thornton having come along and, you
41:16know, we'll see about Jonah Tong.
41:18You know, hopefully he's able to establish himself next year.
41:22I just think they're in real good shape as far as young starting pitching is concerned.
41:27But defense, bullpen, and as I mentioned, a couple of other areas, that's all.
41:32That's it.
41:34You know, the last thing I want to do is get in the way of Howie Rose when he's got
41:39words.
41:39So just as a way to wrap up here, go wherever you want.
41:44You could talk about the Mets.
41:45You could talk about your future.
41:47You could talk about the past.
41:48You could talk about the past week.
41:51Like, wherever Howie Rose wants to go, where does Howie Rose want to go?
41:54Well, for starters, I'm not going to pull a Mark McGuire on you and just sit here and say I'm
42:00not here to talk about the past.
42:03I guess that's all I've got now is the past, right?
42:07But I'm not looking at myself as some old guy that's going to head to the hammock and just rock
42:13back and forth for however long I've got left.
42:17I still have things I want to do professionally.
42:19I don't know what they are.
42:21I know one thing, they're going to be in Florida for the most part, but I will be up here
42:27from time to time because the Mets, and I can't even begin to tell you what Steve and Alex Cohen
42:34and Katie Haas and other executives of the Mets organization have meant to my family and me.
42:39Just over these last few days when they pivoted from the original plan and put such a beautiful day together
42:45on Sunday, and again, they're aiming to do that next year with an on-field ceremony.
42:51I can't, I'm speechless really when it comes to what those among the hierarchy in the Mets organization have meant,
42:58not just to me, but my family and me.
43:00I'm still going to be in touch.
43:02You know, the Mets thankfully will be bringing me up to continue to host the on-field ceremonies.
43:07And as the rest of it is concerned, I'm going to get down to Florida, take a deep breath and
43:12figure out what comes next.
43:14But I still feel I've got some words left in me.
43:18I'm just not sure what they are right now.
43:21Howie, I'm sure you have experienced this.
43:23I'm sure, John, as I get it all the time, I get asked about people in baseball, what's so-and
43:27-so really like?
43:28And sometimes I have to tell the truth, and sometimes I obfuscate.
43:34I've got asked an awful lot over, especially the last month, I go, what's Howie Rose really like?
43:40I'm like, whatever you think, better.
43:43Oh, that's so nice.
43:44And I mean that as a guy, John mentioned it, you're down in the press conference grinding this far, asking
43:52questions.
43:53So people should know you put in the work till the end.
43:56It sounded that way to the end, and you're a better dude.
43:59And we're going to miss you, but you've earned everything that you felt and received over the last period of
44:07time.
44:07And we wish you nothing but the best and hope that you're able to make the trip up from Florida
44:12often so we could continue to see you.
44:15Well, I appreciate both of you.
44:17I appreciate those beautiful words.
44:18And again, that's what I just keep coming back to.
44:23I've got this enormous amount of gratitude and appreciation for everything that people have said and directed towards me.
44:32Not only this year, not only these last few weeks, but really the entirety of my time with the Mets.
44:37It has been literally a dream come true.
44:40And I'm still not sold that I'm not going to wake up one morning and I'm back in Queens College
44:48wondering if I can make a go of this.
44:50It's been that deep and surreal a dream.
44:52So thank you both.
44:54Howie, all the best.
44:55Thank you as always.
44:56You got it, guys.
44:58See you soon.
45:04John and I, of course, thank the great Howie Rose for joining us on the show.
45:08John, hit or error?
45:10I'm going to give an error to the AL West that has two losing teams at the top right now.
45:14They may end up with a champion who's got a losing record.
45:18Hopefully we don't – that won't bother me so much.
45:20Hopefully whoever it is, if they do have a losing record, they don't make it to the World Series and
45:25win the World Series.
45:26Pretty unlikely, but, you know, not optimal right there.
45:29That's an error for me.
45:31Yeah, the other side of that bracket, that's not the AL East, is really something.
45:35John, I'm going to give a hit to the Mets rookie class.
45:39And I guess I have to include the guy who orchestrated the rookie class, Andy Green, in it.
45:44He went from farm director to manager.
45:47They've had really five impact rookies this year, and it's really from every bucket.
45:52McClain and Thornton in the rotation, Ewing and Benj positionally in the outfield.
45:57And late in the year, Nate Lavender was really impressive out of the bullpen.
46:02You know, it's tough.
46:04You never know what's translatable, right?
46:06Like when Francisco Alvarez was 21 and hit 25 homers, I think we all would have bought stock.
46:11There were probably times we bought stock in Vientos, in Beatty, in Ronnie Mauricio.
46:16So, you know, you don't know how it will translate.
46:18But the Mets have a little cornerstone to build off of.
46:21I think you and I have both heard positive reviews of what they did at the trade deadline.
46:26So maybe they've added even more to that.
46:28They're going to need it.
46:29They have a lot of things they have to answer either, and they're going to have to use that farm
46:34system to either come up and help or to do further trades for people.
46:39But in a terrible year, I think they had the number one farm class as far as coming to the
46:45major leagues as a group.
46:46Yeah, I'm with you.
46:47I mean, I think Sal Stewart's going to win the rookie of the year, but Benj and McClain certainly are
46:52candidates.
46:53Thornton looked good.
46:54We know A.J. Ewing is quite good, or we believe that he will be quite good.
46:58I will sell on Francisco Alvarez, since you brought it up.
47:03But other than that, I'm really impressed by the Mets kids.
47:08I really am.
47:08So I'm with you.
47:09John and I, of course, thank Tommy Hogan, our great producer.
47:13Apple, Spotify, wherever you listen to podcasts, please rate and review us, download all that, follow us.
47:19The New York Post sports YouTube page, give us a view.
47:23Next time we're together, it's for the playoffs.
47:25So please stick with us on the show with Joel Sherman and John Heyman.
47:32You
Comments