00:00The question is, did India buckle under U.S. pressure as is being alleged?
00:04Why would Matthew Van Dyke be released on default bail and permitted to leave the country?
00:11Professor Brahma Chilani is one of India's foremost voices on strategic affairs,
00:15former advisor to National Security Council.
00:17He joins us on the special broadcast.
00:20Sir, you heard Pawan Kheda, Congress Party MP.
00:23The Congress alleges that this is surrender by the government to U.S. pressure.
00:27Is there merit that while there are UAPA charges that are pending,
00:32a charge sheet could not be filed, so a default bail was granted on a very serious charge?
00:38Anti-India insurgency groups being supported, Indian border being crossed illegally.
00:44Did government buckle under pressure as is being alleged, sir?
00:48Gaurav, India has a long record of dropping, diluting,
00:54or rendering inconsequential, criminal proceedings against foreign individuals or foreign entities.
01:04We have seen a pattern.
01:06This pattern goes back to the Babal gas tragedy.
01:10The Babal gas tragedy killed thousands and injured lots of people.
01:16Yet, no one was held accountable for that tragedy.
01:21We had the Purulia arms drop case, again, a similar pattern.
01:29Then, most recently, the Italian Marines case.
01:33Yes.
01:34Again, the two Italians were allowed to return to Italy after India came under pressure.
01:39Under successive Indian governments, India has surrendered to external pressure.
01:50There's no doubt about that.
01:52But it's been a pattern under successive governments.
01:56And I think the latest case has larger implications, especially for India's security in the Northeast,
02:05for India's relations with Myanmar.
02:07Because, according to the NIA, these seven individuals, who, according to the NIA, were involved in a foreign-sponsored proxy
02:21war
02:22against Myanmar, using India's Northeast as the staging ground.
02:28And that could be detrimental to our security interests also.
02:33You know, if terrorists have access to drones.
02:37No, very much.
02:38Look at this.
02:39According to the NIA, this was not the first time they entered India illegally and transferred
02:45drones to Myanmar.
02:47They had done that on two previous occasions since 2024.
02:51So, they were part of an international network, according to the NIA.
02:56And, in the latest case, they had actually smuggled into India a huge consignment, quote-unquote,
03:04a huge consignment of drones and related components, and then taken that consignment to Myanmar, again, unlawfully.
03:15Now, they were initially accused of waging war against the Indian state.
03:21So, it's not just Myanmar.
03:24It was against India.
03:26And that's the reason why the premier anti-terrorism law, the UPA, UAPA, Unlawful Activities Prevention Act,
03:38was invoked against them.
03:39But, there was an inkling of what was happening when, on September 8th, the UPA was dropped.
03:49And only…
03:50So, while the government officially claims that UAPA investigations, or at least that is what
03:55they claim, they're still ongoing.
03:58But, if UAPA investigations are undergoing, can a UAPA accused be permitted to leave the country
04:04following the intervention, or when the U.S. Ambassador raised this issue with Foreign Secretary
04:10Vikram Misri, and of course, also raised, we are told, during Marco Rubio's visit to India,
04:15the shift from UAPA to lesser charges, and then permission to leave India.
04:20Is that coincidence, or is that pressure, which is very visible?
04:24Well, it has been admitted by the U.S. government that Marco Rubio, during his India visit, raised
04:32this issue, and he raised this issue quite assertively.
04:38But I think more important is this, that in Indian judicial system, when somebody is released
04:46on bail, especially somebody who's accused of serious criminal offenses, the person is
04:54required to stay in India, you don't grant bail to a criminal accused and let him leave
05:02India.
05:03These seven men will not return to India.
05:08They have been deliberately let go free.
05:12Let's be clear on that.
05:13This case is dead.
05:15It's dead.
05:16It's dead as a dodo.
05:17This case…
05:18Which is very sad, but I want to understand.
05:21You're saying that they will not come back to India.
05:23So, this month-long trip, NISA's, all aspects of the original probe, including possible UAPA
05:30elements and seized material, they claim that investigations are open.
05:35Default bail, they claim is a statutory right when six months or 180 days investigation window
05:42lapses, travel abroad is discretionary.
05:46Should that discretion not have been applied to those who were earlier accused of waging
05:50war against India?
05:51And why should anyways Ukrainians and Americans enter our country, train people in drone operations
05:57and then go to Myanmar from our country?
05:58This just doesn't add up, sir.
06:01You know, you raise a fundamental question, Gaurav.
06:03The issue is this, that if you look at it in a larger context, in 2024, there was a regime
06:11change in Bangladesh, which Washington endorsed.
06:15Yes.
06:16Myanmar is a target of U.S. government.
06:20Successive U.S. administrations have used sanctions and military aid to rebels to overthrow the military
06:29government in Myanmar.
06:32Now, these seven operatives, according to the NIA, were part of a larger international network
06:39that was training and arming Chin rebels in Myanmar with drones and other weapons.
06:50And the Chin rebels, according to the NIA, were providing aid to the Kuki rebels in Manipur.
06:57Yes.
06:58And which is very worrisome.
06:59The open flow of weapons into our country in Manipur is such a cause for grave concern,
07:05especially given that Kuki-Maitai fight that was happening there and free flow of people
07:10on either side, sir.
07:13Precisely.
07:13The Chin and the Kuki are ethnic cousins.
07:19In fact, they belong to the same ethnicity.
07:21And the reason why the ethnic conflict in Manipur has exacerbated is because the Chin rebels
07:28have been actively assisting the Kuki rebels.
07:32In fact, Chin rebels have entered Manipur, according to the government of India's account.
07:37And these seven operatives, the six Ukrainians and the American covert operative,
07:45he's an operative of covert wars in Ukraine and the Middle East, including Libya.
07:50These seven were directly involved in arming the Chin rebels.
07:56In fact, just three weeks ago, on August 31st, the NIA expanded its case against the seven
08:05by accusing them of being involved in a drone attack on the Myanmar National Airlines plane,
08:13which was on the ground.
08:15Since you mentioned the Bhopal case, I'm just wondering, there was a quid pro quo that was alleged
08:21and that information came out much later.
08:24When Warren Addison, if I remember correctly, was permitted to leave,
08:28you know, there was politics at play.
08:30That information came out much later.
08:33It remains to be seen whether there's a quid pro quo even here.
08:36And Professor Chilani, that's something that perhaps you and I will discuss at a later date.
