CTP (20260930 S4ESepSpecial5) Ray R Roberts Public Theology Defined BTS/SP video

Name: CTP (20260930 S4ESepSpecial5) Ray R Roberts Public Theology Defined BTS/SP video
Uploaded: 2026-09-28T16:20:03+00:00
Duration: 56 min 56 s
Channel: Joseph M. Lenard

00:00Hello, welcome to another episode of Perstitutionalist Podcast.

00:06I am your host, Joseph M. Leonard.

00:09That's L-E-N-A-R-D.

00:12It looks French.

00:13It's not.

00:14It's Leonard without an O.

00:17Thank you for tuning in, as Graham Norton used to say, on his show.

00:24Let's get on with the show!

00:25So, joining me today is Raymond R. Roberts, a.k.a. The Pirate.

00:39Raymond R. Roberts, a.k.a. The Pirate, or at least that's what I'm going to start calling him.

00:47Welcome to the show, Raymond. How are you?

00:50I'm well. Thank you so much for having me on the show.

00:53And, you know, when I moved to the Grace Presbyterian Church in Jenkintown, they had a sign up front, and

01:01they ran out of R's.

01:04And so they had to go and buy all new letters, so they could pick the sermon and the name.

01:10And they probably looked out of place, because the other ones were weathered and worn, and those were bright, new,

01:16and shiny.

01:17Oh, we only used bright, new, and shiny, so.

01:20Oh, okay.

01:24At any rate, the first question I'd like to ask is, where were you born and raised?

01:34Where are you now? Significant places you've been between, that sorts of thing?

01:39I'm originally from a little town called Farmington, Missouri, south of St. Louis, about 60, 70 miles.

01:47And let me guess, it was a farming town.

01:51Well, it was a county seat, and it is and was a great place to be from, and a good

01:59place.

02:00I've still got relatives who live there, and friends, and so Farmington is a wonderful, wonderful place.

02:08So I'm very pleased to be from there.

02:11All right.

02:12Any places you wandered to, or born and raised, and you loved it so much, it's where you always want

02:20to be?

02:21Well, you know, when you take the job of being a pastor, you've got to go where God calls you.

02:27And so my father wanted me to go into law, in fact, particularly labor law.

02:33Well, you did.

02:35You went into God's law.

02:36Well, that is a kind of law, right?

02:39Calvin and Luther both have legal connections, don't they?

02:43So he was, my dad was, he thought it was a bad financial decision, but he supported me through the

02:51ministry.

02:51And, but if, you know, if I'd followed his advice, I'd have gone to law school and moved back to

02:57Farmington and entered the practice with the family firm.

03:00Yeah.

03:01Well, I was going to say it's not something you're going to get rich on, but that's not necessarily true.

03:09I don't want to name any names, but I think we all can have a few come to mind that

03:15managed to rack up plenty of money for private jets and all that stuff.

03:21So, but, you know, let's keep your cycle there.

03:25Part of my call was, part of my call was recognizing that, although my family was very well off, you

03:34know, my dad was, you know, had a private plane.

03:37We owned a house in the Bahamas.

03:39I mean, it was, we were really well off.

03:41So nothing against private planes.

03:42Hey, I'd love to be able to fly on them.

03:46But, but, but I would say is, well, now to Farmington, you know, you say as you drive into St.

03:50Louis, but, but, and he did, he used it for his practice, his legal practice.

03:56So the thing, the thing that, that just had my, my thing ding, what, what, what came to me as,

04:08as I was thinking about my sense of call is that even though we had all this material stuff, there's

04:13more to life than the toys.

04:17There's more to life than.

04:19It's nice to have toys, but yeah.

04:23But at a certain point, I mean, there's nothing kind of sadder to me than running across people who are

04:27kind of old and who are kind of bored with it all, right?

04:29They, they've had it all, they've got it all, and they still haven't found that secret missing part that Augustine

04:36talks about, that our hearts are restless until they find their rest in, in God.

04:42And I, you know, I frankly think that's, I believe that because I experienced it myself.

04:47And I grew up in the church.

04:48I mean, I think that's a piece of it too.

04:50So my father couldn't quite, you know, grasp why, why would you do this?

04:56But, but, but at the same time, you know, it was a sense of that this is worth my life.

05:02And, and, and, and I, I can say on this, you know, I, I'm now kind of retired.

05:09I'm still working pretty hard.

05:10My wife would say, I thought you were going to retire, but you got ants in your pants.

05:16You can't retire.

05:17Yeah.

05:19My calling changed.

05:20That's what happened.

05:22But what I would say is I, it's been a rich, fulfilling life to, to serve God, to serve people,

05:29to live, to live in community with other people.

05:32I've met some of the most amazing, inspiring people over the course of my ministry who I never would have

05:38met any other way and gotten the same way, but as their pastor.

05:42And, and frankly, you know, the folks, you know, the pastors flying around and the big jets kind of sheltering

05:48themselves from, from other folks are missing out.

05:52It's, you know, there's something to be said.

05:54You're rich in another kind of value.

05:56And I've certainly never had it all, but I did have a period where I had a good career and

06:03a good salary.

06:04I had a Porsche 944.

06:06I've had two DeLoreans.

06:09You've really lived.

06:10The nice, fancy vacations, the trips to the Amazon and tubing the Amazon in Belize and all that.

06:18You know, so I had a period where I had some great, wonderful upscale living.

06:25So I'm glad, certainly glad I got to enjoy that.

06:29I wish I still had my toys.

06:30I loved my DeLoreans.

06:32I would love to still have one, but, you know, the, the 2009 Pontiac Vive held together by bubblegum wire

06:42and duct tape will have to do.

06:46And, you know, those challenges teach us something, don't they?

06:49About what it means to be a human being and to participate in God's world and, and to appreciate what

06:54we've got, you know, and, and that God will provide.

06:58I, you know, I, you know, it's, it's not just the strength of our own hands that gets us there.

07:03Yeah.

07:03Let's get into the meat of what I got on my notes here.

07:07Okay.

07:07My, my audience knows I'm straight with them.

07:11I use pod match to connect with potential guests and me as a guest with potential hosts.

07:19Uh, and we've connected there, uh, there's like three things or yeah, two major things in your bio there.

07:28The first thing though, I wanted to touch on was the music, the co-writer of the song, Let Freedom

07:36Ring.

07:36Now I remember, uh, 10, 12, 16, uh, whatever, many years ago, there was a conservative, uh, constitutionalist, I would

07:50dare say, constitutionalist organization, even though I hadn't invented a trademark that term yet.

07:57But back then, uh, that was called Let Freedom Ring Pack.

08:05They were a political action committee and they did a host of Let Freedom Ring commercials and they had, uh,

08:14patriotic type music.

08:16Did, what was the genesis of the Let Freedom Ring song?

08:24Well, uh, you know, it was, um, it was watching, uh, uh, uh, uh, I guess it was Obama's inaugural

08:31and Bono was shouting, let freedom ring, let freedom ring, let freedom ring.

08:35I thought, why didn't I write that song?

08:38And, um, what a, what an obvious, uh, theme for a song to, to celebrate the, the great freedoms that

08:46we have in this country and, and what this country is about.

08:49And, and then he went on and sang Where the Streets Have No Name, which is, um, very different kind

08:56of song.

08:56Yeah, yeah, yeah.

08:58I thought we were going to get some new song and I thought, well, uh.

09:02We start talking biblical community and then quickly pivot to worldly communism, Bono.

09:09Yeah, no, no thank you.

09:11It's a big distinction between the two.

09:14Yeah, I'm not, I'm not a favor of, uh, Marx or communism.

09:18I'm just not there.

09:20Uh.

09:20Yeah, I don't know.

09:22You can't, I, I will get in trouble, but I'll say it again.

09:26You can't be a real Christian and be a Marxist.

09:31You can be a Matthew 23 fake Christian, I dare say, and distort portions of the Bible because we are

09:40to want to be our brothers and sisters keeper.

09:43And take care of widows and orphans, not forced to do it at the barrel of the gun.

09:49We are to want to share things we have, not have them confiscated from us and given away to others.

09:57Biblical community versus the worldly communism.

10:01Well, and, and understanding that government has a role to play in things, but it shouldn't be the totality.

10:08Uh, because when, uh, you know, one of the things I talk about in my book, uh, is that when

10:13government, uh, in East Germany, for example, to pick a communist government, uh, took over the.

10:19BDR, for those who remember.

10:22They, they had beautiful, uh, all the, you know, environmental laws in the world.

10:28They were really, really there, but, but because they own the company, they never enforced them.

10:33Right.

10:34In name only.

10:37Environmentalist in name only.

10:39And I've got several episodes on real conservationism, godly, biblical conservationism.

10:46We are to be good stewards of the planet, but planet worshiper climate hoaxism is a whole other story.

10:54It's a replacement for biblical conservationism.

10:59And creation care, you know, we're called to be stewards, uh, to tend.

11:03I like that.

11:03I hadn't heard that term before.

11:05Did you come with that creation care?

11:07No, uh, that was, that was, uh, coined by, uh, uh, the head of the National Association of Evangelicals.

11:13I can't remember his name now.

11:14Uh, but I remember meeting him and he was like, you know, um, creation.

11:18And that's what Genesis talks about, you know, that, you know, we're 10.

11:23In fact, I think that's what it means to maybe bear the image of God.

11:26That, uh, that we're, we're called to exercise God-like care over creation.

11:33Now, I will say this about creation, though.

11:35The story of creation, other creation myths from, uh, you know, Babylonian and stuff.

11:40Humans exist to feed the gods.

11:42But in the biblical story, God exists to feed the humans.

11:48And, uh, and so that's, God feeds people.

11:53And, uh, we don't, we're not here to feed the gods.

11:56Or, well, not to dumb it down to, yeah, not to dumb it down, but to put it in a

12:01human

12:02term, that the whole war on parenting and again, worldly communism, Hitleries, it takes

12:09a village.

12:10No, that's a biblical thing.

12:12It does take parents and grandparents and sisters and brothers and neighbors, but it

12:18doesn't take a fascistic state.

12:21Well, it's like, you know, you pick up the kids from soccer.

12:25Yeah.

12:26Parenting, though, right?

12:27Yeah.

12:28The parent exists to take care of and feed the child.

12:32The child isn't there to be an exploitation of the parent.

12:36Well, and growing up in a small town, which is more like a village, uh, you know, I, I,

12:41I know, you know, I know my, I know some things that my dad did.

12:46Uh, you know, we, I went with him a couple of times on Christmas Eve and we'd go around

12:51and visit some families that, and, and, and I, what I, I, I didn't know this at first,

12:56but the last time I was with him, I noticed that he would, you know, shake their hand and

13:01wish him a Merry Christmas.

13:02And there was a little green stuff in there, uh, as he was, because it takes a village,

13:06you know, we're all in this together.

13:08That's, uh, that's one of the.

13:10In a voluntary biblical community fashion, not a fascistic dictatorial at the barrel of

13:18a gun force status.

13:21Exactly.

13:21Big difference.

13:22Now, I, oh, I remembered what the three, I was saying, I thought there were three things

13:27in that.

13:27Uh, yeah, pastor, professor, musician were the three things.

13:31So we kind of touched on the, the musician thing.

13:34We already know about the pastoral thing.

13:38Uh, although I, I gotta tell you my joke.

13:41Uh, when you said you already kind of killed the joke, cause you said you semi-retired, right?

13:47If you go to a church and they say, we'd like you to meet our pastor.

13:52And I will say, well, if he's going, why don't I meet the new one, right?

13:59A pastor as opposed to a presentor or the currentor.

14:06But anyway, my lame puns aside, you already hinted at the book, uh, professor, uh, which

14:16is a democratic and republican faith, a public theology for a church and nation in crisis.

14:25Yes?

14:26Yes.

14:27Uh, we, we are in crisis.

14:30We, and the crisis is, uh, played out in a number of different ways.

14:33We see this, uh, the, the growth of violence, political violence, assassination attempts.

14:39We see, uh, we see, uh, people, and, you know, during, during the last election, the University

14:45of Chicago did a study that, uh, in which both members of both parties said there was

14:51more likely to be violence in the future.

14:53And, uh, you know, that's very worrisome that it, cause violence is corrosive to democratic

14:59trust.

15:00Yeah.

15:01And it is not exclusive to one, but 95% of it comes from one side.

15:09Well, everybody thinks their side is innocent.

15:12No, not totally innocent.

15:14Absolutely not.

15:16Yes.

15:16Well, that's why.

15:18But, but who killed Lincoln?

15:20Who killed Kennedy?

15:21Who killed?

15:22It was left spectrum people.

15:26Right.

15:27Well, I mean, during, during this.

15:29Not right.

15:29Correct.

15:30Correct.

15:31Left.

15:32Sorry.

15:33My OCD brain, I can't, just can't.

15:35It's a joke, people.

15:37I'm joking here.

15:37Let's lighten up.

15:39Anyway.

15:41But yeah.

15:43Well, some would hear a public theology in the title and scream, oh my God, church and

15:50state.

15:52Having no clue that it's not in our founding documents and bastardizing Jefferson's letters

15:59and intent.

16:00Yes.

16:01Well, and, and, and, you know, so by public theology, what I mean is that there's the words

16:06that we use in theology, like sin or moral law or natural law, uh, ideas of federalism.

16:14These, these, these words exist.

16:16People who are not believers use them, but oftentimes they don't really have a thick understanding of

16:22what they mean.

16:23And even the, even in the church, we don't really understand the meaning of sin, the meaning

16:28of creation, the major meaning of imago Dei, the image of God, the, the idea that, uh,

16:34that we all have a vocation or that our lives are bound together.

16:39I wish I could afford our vacation.

16:42Oh, you said vocation.

16:43Again, sorry.

16:44The OCD brain just has to go there.

16:47You can't do you.

16:49So, so these words float in our culture, uh, and, and even though, uh, and, and in the

16:56past, uh, people like Thomas Paine, when he wrote Common Sense, which was one in five colonists

17:03owned the book.

17:04It's one of the most bought books that Americans ever, that's the book that more Americans bought

17:09than any other book is Thomas Paine's, except for the Bible, of course, uh, but it's Thomas

17:14Paine's Common Sense.

17:15And, uh, the, the significance of, of him, what's interesting is that he was not an Orthodox

17:22believer, but he did have an understanding of human sinfulness.

17:26It was not my understanding.

17:28He didn't really have an understanding of what that meant for eternal destiny and, and, uh,

17:33and Christ's salvation and that sort of thing.

17:35He was very critical of the church, but his understanding of sin.

17:38Even though it was truncated, uh, led him to think that a Republic was better than a monarchy

17:45for a variety of reasons.

17:46Uh, because, uh, if you give a monarch or any person too much power, you're going to-

17:52Absolute power corrupting.

17:54Absolutely.

17:55Yes.

17:55It's unwont.

17:57Uh, now, I'm sorry.

17:59Go ahead.

18:00No, that's, uh, so, uh, my, my hope is that we can revitalize, uh, us, you know, an understanding

18:07of sin, there was a, a group in the 1950s, early 60s, uh, that was called Atheists for

18:13Niebuhr.

18:13Have you ever heard of this?

18:15Reinhold Niebuhr was, uh, a theologian who started in the 1930s and it was at one point

18:20on the cover of Time Magazine.

18:22If you can imagine that, uh, back when Time Magazine was something.

18:27Tommy Magazine?

18:28No, it doesn't surprise me.

18:29Yeah.

18:30But, uh, Niebuhr, Niebuhr was, um, you know, tried to, uh, explain, uh, why a doctrine of

18:38sin was important.

18:39Because otherwise, you give people too much power, like in communism, or you give them

18:43too much power as in fascism.

18:44Yeah.

18:45Yeah.

18:45Time used to put some reasonable people on the cover.

18:49And I, again, the whole Hitler thing, he was the man of the, well, he was the most influential

18:57person on the planet at that particular time.

19:01I don't have a problem with him having been on the cover.

19:06It wasn't about glorification of the Nazi cause.

19:11It wasn't an endorsement.

19:13It's about impact.

19:15Correct.

19:16Exactly.

19:18So, but you might, oh, how we need common sense to be in publication again, and that to

19:25get to bestseller status again, as well as I've got a copy, I don't remember the full

19:33title, but a copy that was my mother's copy from long ago about etiquette, how we need

19:41etiquette books again.

19:43But you mentioned federalism, because that recalls a story I was at somewhere and someone

19:50popped up and said, what is federalism?

19:53And the whole room full of supposed smart people just went quiet and was like, I'll handle

20:00that question.

20:01Because it's a, it's an antithetical, almost oxymoronic term.

20:07When you think federalism, and I have an article at the Liberty Beacon, as well as before it's

20:15news, yesterday's federalism and federalists versus today's fascia federalists, but right

20:25out of the gate, the federalists were arguing, you know, for more of our constitution from

20:31our articles of confederation, because they were too soft, too weak, they failed.

20:37But federalists, even like Jefferson, immediately began eroding the Republic, limited Republic,

20:46and pushing for more and more federal control, which is antithetical to the real supposed meaning

20:55of federalism, where the states have the power and create the federal government, but it's

21:02the states who are supposed to rule over the federal, not the other way around.

21:07So people are confused by that term, all the doggone time, and it's understandable why.

21:15The, the, the, the history of the word, I think when people talk about federal government,

21:19they mean national government.

21:21And that's not what the word federal means.

21:23The word federal comes up.

21:24Not supposed to.

21:26And the founder's ideas about federalism, even Jefferson a little bit, who's, as you

21:32know, not an Orthodox believer, but the founder's ideas grow out.

21:36But a believer.

21:38Of, of, of, of the sort.

21:39He's got a Bible, he's cut out all the passages, stuff, he's not, I don't, my Bible's got the

21:46red letters, but it's, it's got them all.

21:48Anyway, because he didn't like any miracles or anything.

21:53The idea of federalism comes from federal theologians who, in Holland, particularly, people like

22:00Althusius and Coxius and some others, they, they came up with this idea that are, they

22:05looked at the Bible to try to make sense of the world they lived in.

22:09And they said that, that they were impressed by the Hebrew word Brit, which means to bind,

22:14that we translate covenant.

22:15And so a federal, that the word in Latin that they used for political covenants was the

22:22word fetus.

22:23That is where our word federal comes from.

22:25A covenantal government is a, is a, is a, is a federal government is a covenantal government

22:31where our lives are bound together.

22:34So the, the, the lives of the state, not, yeah.

22:38Yeah.

22:38Hence the United States bound, join or die, but, but separate and supposedly the superior.

22:47Right.

22:49And, and so, and so the, the binding, and so in the declaration of independence is a

22:54classic covenantal document because covenants always have promises like the covenant of

23:02marriage, for example.

23:03There's a promise that I would take you for better, for worse, sickness, richer, for poor,

23:07sickness, and health till death.

23:09You know, that, those promises are binding once again, that's the meaning of the word

23:14federal bound, uh, in German, it's booned, uh, it, and the idea of the binding through

23:21the promises and in the declaration of independence, we pledge our lives, our property, and our sacred

23:26honor.

23:27That's what, so there's the promissory element of the people who signed the declaration of

23:33independence.

23:33And, and the, and the colonies were bound together by an article of confederacy, the articles

23:39of confederation, which weren't strong enough.

23:41And, uh, we can argue, uh, you know, people did disagree about how much power government should

23:47have people, the federalists who argued for the constitution, people like James Madison,

23:54uh, and, and people like that, uh, sought to, to deal with the problem of sin by dividing

23:59power, right?

24:00Separating, separation of powers.

24:02Uh, but the anti-federalists also were inspired by a doctrine of sin.

24:07They were concerned that the executive would have too much and become a tyrant.

24:13They were afraid of a tyrant.

24:15And, uh, and, and, and, and most of those folks, once again, the doctrine of sin is behind

24:21this.

24:22Yeah.

24:22The anti-federalists today would be saying, see, see, we told you.

24:28That's what anti-federalists would be saying.

24:30I'm afraid.

24:30And, and, and their answer, their, and so they demanded a bill of rights and a bill of

24:36rights, uh, divides power, not only within government, which is what the constitution

24:42does with the, you know, executive, legislative, and judicial.

24:45Delineating our inalienable rights and limiting constitutionally the government.

24:53Well, the bill of rights creates an independent church, a free press, and the rights of assembly

25:00and to petition the government.

25:01So you can create groups that oppose and challenge the government.

25:07And, and, and those freedoms.

25:09That's why communists are free to diss our government as much as they like.

25:14As long as they agree.

25:16Yeah.

25:17They can't violently overthrow it, however.

25:21Yeah.

25:21And so, so the great thing about, uh, I mean, I, and I, I, I, I gave a talk, uh,

25:28at a 250th

25:29anniversary celebration in New Jersey last weekend on the founders and principles that

25:34animated the founders.

25:36I don't really talk about the founders so much in my book.

25:38I talk about more contemporary meaning of, of, of, of some principles, uh, theological principles

25:45that some of which people may not have really thought about, even in the church.

25:50And, um, but the founders, like the, the federalists and the anti-federalists, both were trying

25:57to apply a doctrine of sin, looking at how they're going to organize and constitute.

26:03That's what a constitution does.

26:05Yeah.

26:06It constitutes the life of a people.

26:09And so.

26:10There must be constraints on government, but there also must be some constraints on the

26:16people because human nature, we weren't anarchists.

26:20Anarchy doesn't work.

26:21Every man, woman, and child for themselves.

26:24We recognize we need laws and some limited government.

26:30Yes.

26:31And, and so, uh, well, and what is it Madison says?

26:34If men were angels, no government would be necessary.

26:38So then he goes on to say that the purpose of government is to restrain sinners, right?

26:42But who restrains the government?

26:45Who watches the watchers?

26:47Yeah.

26:47The only people that we're going to be, that are going to be elected and serving in office

26:51are going to be sinners.

26:52And, uh, that's a problem that, you know, you don't want to have, uh, you don't want to

26:57have, you don't want to give sinners too much power.

27:01And, uh, and so a doctrine of sin, and this is what I think has been lost, uh, the separation

27:06of powers and, uh, with both within government and within society, the separation of powers

27:12comes from Montesquieu, spirit of the laws, but it also has a good meaning.

27:19There's your DeLorean behind you.

27:21Yeah.

27:22No, mine never crashed.

27:24You're the hatch section.

27:25Yeah.

27:26I was very, I was feeling very sorry for you there.

27:28Yeah.

27:29Um, uh, back to the future.

27:32Anyway, uh, back to the, um, this, the, the idea of sin gave the, the separation of powers

27:39an extra boost.

27:40It said, why do we need to separate powers?

27:43And it's because the, you know, the monarch King George is a tyrant.

27:47We don't want to have a tyrant.

27:48Uh, and then, uh, they knew republics had not lasted long, you know, no Republican history

27:55lasted long.

27:56I'm reading a book right now.

27:57It's called the fall of republics.

27:59Uh, it's actually Thomas Madden and it's based on a book that James Madison wrote, uh, right

28:06before the constitutional convention and that a lot of people read and it's about the history

28:11of republics and how they fell apart.

28:13And this guy is kind of rehearsing that, that history and, uh, and kind of bringing it up

28:19to the present, uh, and, and with some of the new historical scholarship and trying to,

28:23you know, what goes on, what goes on with republics anyway?

28:27Um, but the, the founders, a doctrine of sin and the doctrine of covenant federalism, um,

28:36you know, when Gene Roddenberry is trying to imagine the future, like how, remember in,

28:41in, in the, in Star Trek, you know, he's got, he's got Russians on the bridge, right?

28:46You know, the cold war is going on.

28:48Yeah.

28:50He's got, he's got, uh, Sulu on the bridge.

28:52You know, uh, you, you, you, you've got, uh, I think Sulu was Japanese.

28:56We just had this war with the Japanese.

28:58Uh, you, you had, uh, Lieutenant Uhura on the bridge.

29:01You've got the country convulsed in civil rights stuff.

29:04And, uh, his, and how did, and he's even got an alien, Spock, a Vulcan on the bridge.

29:10They're all there working on this project together.

29:14And how is it that they've organized their lives?

29:17And, and Gene Roddenberry, when he thought up the idea of Star Trek, said it's a federation

29:23that allows people to maintain their distinctive identities, like states that maintain their

29:28identities.

29:29They don't, this, this is not the Borg.

29:32Right.

29:34It's not the Borg.

29:36Uh, it's.

29:37Although many try to twist and Gene later in life got a lot more woke and leftist, but

29:44tried to attribute it to communistic thoughts.

29:49But.

29:49But he saw the power of federalism.

29:52If you stick to the volunt, again, biblical community through voluntarily joining rather

29:59than by force, that's a good, solid biblical principle.

30:05It, like the latest discovery and, uh, all them that have gone fully woke have gotten really

30:13ridiculous of late.

30:15But I had no problem with the original Star Trek itself and what it was trying to voluntarily

30:24want us to try to come.

30:26E pluribus unum, from many one.

30:30We are the melting pot.

30:32We are to want to come, not forget our previous heritages and culture, but blend together into

30:41to the one new unique, not assimilation, not what's the woke term they all use?

30:54We're trying to steal from others.

30:57I'm not exactly sure.

30:59Oh, whatever the term.

31:02Appropriations, the word I'm looking.

31:04Not appropriation, but homage.

31:06Not forgetting your past, but understanding you're part of the new collective America.

31:13Oh, I shouldn't have used the word collective.

31:17Yeah.

31:21But, you know, the Dominion was with a group that was in one Star Trek thing was opposed to it.

31:27But one of the things about federal political thought and even is that the partners in the covenant,

31:36partner is a good covenant word.

31:38Our word obligation is a good covenant word.

31:41It's got that word ligament in it.

31:43Our word religion is a good covenant word.

31:46It means what God is bound.

31:47The word reliable means that you're going to keep your promises, right?

31:53So the idea of that, so people, their lives are bound together, but they remain different.

32:00So when, what is it, war comes on, he doesn't cease to be a Klingon, right?

32:06Right.

32:06Even Klingons can become part of the Federation.

32:09And as we think about the plurality and the differences in American society, we're not going to get rid of

32:15all the differences.

32:17They don't all have to be.

32:18The key is focusing on the things we have in common, yeah, so that those differences don't boil up into

32:26all-out war.

32:27Now, you keep using the word covenant, which I'm glad because, but the almost, the converse of that, a similar

32:36almost sounding word, coveted, covetedness, coveting.

32:43Wanting other people's stuff.

32:45180s.

32:46Or wanting too much.

32:49Yeah, yeah, completely different concepts there.

32:55Yeah, covetedness, greed.

32:59You know, we've just lived through a time when, what is it, Gordon Gacko said greed is good, right?

33:05To a point.

33:07Well, you know, self-doubt.

33:09You should want to profit, right?

33:12Profit is not the same thing as greed.

33:15Well, true.

33:17This was Max Weber's criticism of Marxism and Engels.

33:21He said, you think profit is the same thing as greed.

33:24Profit just, it has to do with double entry accounting and keeping track of credits and debts.

33:32So that if you don't make a profit, you don't.

33:35You can't stay in business, right?

33:37And it's not the same thing as greed is everywhere, he said.

33:42Greed is not part of capitalism.

33:44It's everywhere if we still have capitalism.

33:47Oh, we still, oh, greed and communism is, yeah, Putin, Xi, communism, it just never ceases to amaze me, the

33:59idiots who think, oh, well, I'll get to be part of the ruling elite.

34:03I'll be part of the haves while everybody else is not have not.

34:07They understand the ruling elites are greedy and are the ones who covet everything and have everything.

34:17And the peasants, the rest of the plebs and peoples have nothing.

34:23And why under communism, fascism, socialism, there are always millions upon millions of people that die because of it.

34:34Oh, millions of people died under Chinese communism, you know, the great leap forward.

34:41And there was no honesty within the government.

34:43They're making these, oh, and they were taking all the food off the land so the peasants couldn't stay alive.

34:49And no, there was nobody who could be, they didn't have an independent press.

34:54Hence the creation of Hunger Games concept and everything taken from the districts and sent to the capital.

35:04And now you mentioned, I forget what word you mentioned, but it brought to my mind the Greek word logos,

35:11not corporate logos, although that's where it derived also as a brand.

35:15But logos as in logic, reason, truth, they didn't have a word for speech, but logos of the Greek is

35:24where our First Amendment is derived.

35:27You are supposed to speak truth to power.

35:31You are, you're not free, sorry, to engage in libel, slander and fraud.

35:38Those are all illegal.

35:41You don't have the free speech right to engage in that.

35:46It's logos.

35:47And you don't have the moral right to violate the Ninth Commandment, right?

35:53You know, bear false witness.

35:56I mean, that's, that's, you know, that's bearing false witness is a, is a clearly...

36:03That's our libel slander laws of, of the Bible as well as from, uh, borrowing it from the Greek in

36:13a way, logos, is a way to soften the religious aspect of it.

36:22But, yeah, it's like Penn.

36:23I, you know, Penn of Penn and Teller, the comedy magician duo?

36:29I don't think I know them.

36:30Okay, oh, they're great.

36:32They're funny, and they're great magicians.

36:35But, anyway, Penn's a devout atheist.

36:38He's a well-known atheist.

36:40But he is not a bigoted atheist, an anti-Christian or anti-religion atheist.

36:48He says, and why I respect the hell out of him, because he'll say,

36:53I've got no problem with the Ten Commandments and Moses on the SCOTUS building, whereas most other atheists are about

37:05destroying all that.

37:07Whether he will say, and does say, whether you come from, I have no right to kill you, nor you

37:15me, and I have no right to steal your stuff, nor you steal mine, from a biblical standpoint, or just,

37:24hey, it's just being a good human standpoint without any God.

37:29But it's, you're still reaching the same point, and it's good.

37:34It's good.

37:35So he doesn't hate on people like us talking about the biblical roots of these things.

37:42He agrees.

37:43He just won't agree on the God part.

37:47Well, and one of the concepts I talk about in my book is the concept of natural law.

37:53And the concept of natural law, what did float around in the pagans, you know, people like Aristotle and some

38:00others believed that there was a moral order.

38:05But the natural law theologians in the 11th century looked at Romans chapter 2, 14, where Paul writes and says,

38:14you know, he's talking about the Jews know they've sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, because they've

38:18got the law, and they can see, I didn't measure up, right?

38:22But what about the Gentiles?

38:24And he says, the Gentiles also know, because God has written the law on their hearts, and they have a

38:32conscience.

38:33And this conscience accuses them and sometimes gets them off the hook.

38:37And the idea of a conscience that everybody can know right from wrong doesn't mean they do.

38:44It doesn't mean Christians do.

38:46Well, even those who, they kind of know.

38:54They just don't want to admit to knowing because they don't want to be constrained by it.

38:59But they know enough to know.

39:01Paul's point is that they know enough to know that they are unjustly condemned.

39:07And that's Paul's point.

39:08All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

39:10That's where he leads to in chapter 3.

39:12But chapter 2, where he says, you know, all people have to know the moral law.

39:17That's the, what, the second table of commandments, thou shalt not kill.

39:21Honor your father and mother, thou shalt not kill.

39:23I have a problem with what you just said.

39:25It is actually thou shalt not murder innocents.

39:29Yes, that is true.

39:31Yeah, I agree.

39:32I grant you that.

39:33Exodus 22, 2 alone.

39:36But let's move on.

39:40You can't kill anybody for no good reason.

39:44Yeah, there is a time for all seasons.

39:47And even God understands us as a human warring creature.

39:52And there are even times like the old, what is it?

39:55The animal song for re-season.

39:58Turn, turn, turn.

40:00Right.

40:01The birds, I believe.

40:02That was the birds.

40:03The birds.

40:04The birds.

40:04Anyway, time has flown.

40:06So we need to wrap it up.

40:08Do you have a website where people can find, obviously the book's available at Andalus on.

40:15It's A Democratic and Republican Faith, A Public Theology for a Church and Nation in Crisis.

40:23I wanted to read the title so I wouldn't skip a word or get it wrong or stutter as I

40:29was doing it.

40:30But do you have your own personal website or church site you wish to send people to?

40:36I do RaymondRRoberts.org.

40:41Org.

40:41Okay.

40:42See, the important thing that you said that.

40:46It would cost too much to buy the comm.

40:49And I decided we'll go with the org.

40:52Even though I'm not very organized.

40:53But here we are.

40:57RaymondRRoberts.org.

40:58And it has sure been a pleasure to be with you today.

41:01I suggest you should look into buying the Pirate.com.

41:08RaymondRRoberts.

41:11Thank you, Raymond.

41:13It's Reverend Raymond.

41:16Oh, the other R, yes.

41:18Oh, but I didn't tell you my middle name, did I?

41:21It's Reverend Raymond Roar Roberts.

41:26Well, one of the things I'm going to be tacking on to the end of this episode is my Roar

41:33tune.

41:33Is it spelled R-O-A-R?

41:37R-O-H-R-E-R.

41:39Oh, okay.

41:40Oh, that makes sense.

41:40It's a Mennonite name.

41:42Yeah.

41:42Mennonites.

41:43And they, all the stuff we've been talking about killing, they would have no killing.

41:49No, I created a song, Roar, R-O-A-R, stands for Restore Our American Republic, because we

41:57keep getting further and further.

41:58And we're not talking about reinstituting slavery.

42:02You know, spare us the bull, you woke, moronic, communist idiots.

42:08No one's talking.

42:09We're talking about, like, eliminating the 17th Amendment to, again, protect the state's

42:16rights, who are supposed to send legislators from their legislative body, and the House

42:24is the people's body.

42:26The Senate is supposed to be the state's body, not directly elected like the 17th Amendment

42:33destroyed.

42:35But anyway, now I'm dragging things out after I said we need to wrap it up.

42:39So RaymondRRoberts.org, people can find more.

42:43Thank you, Ray.

42:44I appreciate you dropping by today.

42:47Well, very nice to meet you this way, and thank you for having me on, and God bless you.

42:52God bless, and to the audience, love you all.

42:55Little town classroom, pledge every day, and on my heart, but my mind far away, history

43:09books like a black and white play, faces and wigs, dates on a page.

43:15Teacher said context, circle the year, said faith shaped the laws we're living in here.

43:21I just drew crosses and stars in the margin, didn't yet see how that story was starting.

43:30And these are the footnotes in the flag, inking prayers in every crack.

43:37Old warm pages under glass, still asking us which road you're gonna pass.

43:43If we learn the why behind the when, let the questions walk us in.

43:50Maybe grace and truth can share the map, in the footnotes in the flag.

43:58Kitchen table, Bible had a theory.

44:04Grandpa's voice slow, picking threads, applications harder than the test, he said.

44:12It's loving your neighbor, when it costs you instead.

44:17He traced out the journey from Egypt to here, how courage and faithful lived in our fears.

44:25Implications don't fit on one line, they sit in your choices, they stretch out your time.

44:32And these are the footnotes in the flag, inking prayers in every crack.

44:39Old warm pages under glass, still asking us which road you're gonna pass.

44:46If we learn the why behind the when, let the questions walk us in.

44:52Maybe grace and truth can share the map, in the footnotes in the flag.

44:59Old context like a lantern on the past.

45:06Shows the shadows we walk through too fast.

45:14Application is the way we live it out.

45:19Implications in the way we treat each other now.

45:24These are the footnotes in the flag, ink and prayers in every crack.

45:31Old warm pages under glass, still asking us which road you're gonna pass.

45:37If we learn the why behind the when, let the questions start again.

45:43Maybe grace and truth can share the map, in the footnotes in the flag.

45:53Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

45:59Yeah, yeah, yeah.

46:17I learned my flags from crayons in a workbook, stars and stripes on construction paper blue.

46:27But under that glue were names and stories, pilgrims, farmers, reading ancient news.

46:39They broke their bread over battered Bibles, passed them down like a family song.

46:51Tried to trace their hope to a promise, even when they got the promise wrong.

47:04This is the story we were handed ink on a page, boots in the sand, faith in the mouths of

47:11the broken and branded prayers, in the dust of a borrowed land.

47:15If we remember, we've got a record, not just the glory, but the truth we hid.

47:21Red, white, white, and revelation.

47:23What does it mean for the life I live?

47:38Sunday class had glossy pictures, shepherds, soldiers in a cardboard world.

47:46But history sat in the back row waiting, talking quiet while the maps unfurled.

47:52Laws were signed with verses cited, hearts were lifted and some were crushed, freedom preached in the same bright doorway,

48:01where certain voices were told to hush.

48:04This is the story we were handed ink on a page, boots in the sand, faith in the mouths of

48:11the broken and branded prayers, in the dust of a borrowed land.

48:15And if we remember, we've got a record, not just the glory, but the truth we hid.

48:21Red, white, white, and revelation.

48:24What does it mean for the life I live?

48:38What do I do with the pages I cherish, tangled up with the pain you feel?

48:44Yeah, can I love the hope they were chasing and still confess where we missed what's real?

48:50Maybe the point was never perfection, maybe the point was mercy instead.

48:55Read that book like a mirror shaking, let it judge the road we tread.

49:07This is the story we're now riding, line after line, in our own hand.

49:13Faith in the hearts of the doubting and fighting grace for the ones we don't understand.

49:19If we remember, let's do it on his count.

49:22Every cost and the gifts God gives.

49:25Red, white, white, and revelation.

49:27That's how the past touches the life I live.

49:35Hi Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho

49:49Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho

49:54Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho

49:57Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho

49:58Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho

49:59Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho Ho

49:59Ho Ho Ho

50:08Roar Restorer, American Republic

50:14Enough of your left kami fashe

50:20Saucy's destruction

50:49They talk in whispers

50:51They scheme in shadows

50:54They wanna change us

50:57But we know what we know

51:00Hear the thunder

51:01Feel the ground shake

51:04No surrender

51:06For goodness sake

51:10Roar, roar, roar

51:13Let freedom ring

51:15Roar, roar, roar

51:18Our voices sing

51:20Roar, roar, roar

51:23We stand up tall

51:25Roar, roar, roar

51:28We give our all

51:40The papers lie

51:42The screens deceive

51:44They try to divide us

51:48But we still believe

51:52From sea to shining sea

51:55A nation strong and free

51:57A nation strong and free

51:58For you and for me

52:00That's how it's gonna be

52:04Roar, roar, roar, roar

52:07Let freedom ring

52:10Roar, roar, roar

52:11Our voices sing

52:15Roar, roar, roar

52:25Roar, roar, roar, roar, roar

52:33Roar, roar, roar

52:33A Americans like that

52:41A nation shouldave

52:47A live

52:48Yeah

52:52Yeah

53:09A va-va-va-va-va-va

53:15Apology we need, but we'll never get

53:18From the weak need, the delivered regrets

53:21Sing same old false narrative tunes like you

53:24Same tired cries with nothing new to prove

53:26The world passes by, you keep calling it fate

53:30But it no longer goes unnoticed

53:33Too late, too late

53:36We heard it all before

53:39Every polished excuse

53:42You saw the same old story

53:45Now it falls right through

53:48Apology we need, we need

53:51Apology we need, we need

53:54Say it with your chest

53:56Say it with your teeth

53:58Apology we need, we need

54:02Apology we need, we need

54:05But you keep on feeding that dead old repeat

54:10Peddling the same tired cries like they cover the stain

54:13But every room goes quiet when you say their name

54:16No more smoke, no more spin, no more soft little lies

54:19The mirror kept the record and it opened our eyes

54:21We heard it all before

54:24We heard it all before

54:51Every polished excuse

54:51A dead old repeat

55:05Let it land, let it break

55:08No more hiding, no more take

55:11Face the line, read it clean

55:13What you mean, what you meant, what you mean

55:21Apology we need, we need

55:24Apology we need, we need

55:27Say it with your chest

55:30Say it with your teeth

55:32Apology we need

55:34Apology we need

55:37Apology we need

55:39The world cannot move on

55:43Hear your same screams

55:48Apology we need

55:51Apology we need

55:51But we'll never get

55:53From the weak need

55:55Lily-livered

55:56But buffoons

55:58Sing the same old false narrative tunes

56:01Like you peddling the same lies

56:03Same crying eyes

56:06Crocodile tears

56:08As the world passes by

56:11You keep lying, cheating, stealing

56:14Will it finally get noticed?

56:20Like and subscribe

56:22To Christitutionalist Politics Podcast

56:26And share episodes

56:28We need your help

56:30Thank you for having tuned into

56:33Another Christitutionalist Podcast Show

56:36I really appreciate

56:38That you stopped by

56:40Again, please

56:42Like, share, subscribe

56:44We need you

56:46To help spread

56:47The Christitutionalist Movement

56:49Thank you again

56:51Take care

56:52God bless

56:53Love you all

CTP (20260930 S4ESepSpecial5) Ray R Roberts Public Theology Defined BTS/SP video

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