00:00As the war in Ukraine continues, Europe faces a difficult question.
00:04How far is it prepared to go to support Kiev and increase pressure on Moscow?
00:09From sanctions and financial aid to military support,
00:13and the growing threat of Russian hybrid attacks across Europe,
00:16the EU is trying to balance solidarity with Ukraine against the rising costs and risks at home.
00:23To talk about this, I'm now joined by Tobias Kremer, a German social democrat in the European Parliament,
00:28where he's a member of the Committees on Foreign Affairs, Security and Defence,
00:32and the Delegations for Relations with the US and with NATO.
00:36Good morning and welcome to the set.
00:38Good morning, thank you for having me.
00:40So when you see and hear all these reports, what's your reaction?
00:46I mean, to me that just shows the utter desperation of Putin,
00:51who has turned this already illegal and criminal campaign
00:55into just a campaign where he doesn't even focus his attacks on the battlefields,
01:01because he knows he can't progress on that.
01:03He's, I think, we've calculated his progress is slower than that of a snail, really.
01:08But he's now really focusing on attacking civilians.
01:11And he's not just attacking civilians in Ukraine who are suffering every day.
01:14But what we are seeing there is that he even goes so far of saying he knows that this grain
01:21export,
01:21he's hurting the Ukrainian economy, but he's also hurting people all over the world,
01:25especially in the global south, who are so dependent on grain exports from Ukraine.
01:30And he knows that this will cause famine.
01:31He knows this will cause death in Africa, in other parts of the world.
01:34And Putin is so desperate that he just goes in there and tries to cause as much harm as possible.
01:39But that is just criminal.
01:40Let's be honest.
01:40Having said that, where does the EU stand on Ukraine right now?
01:45Is it still as long as it takes when it comes to support?
01:49Or do we already see the limits of sustained help for Ukraine?
01:55I think what we need to understand is that this war that Putin conducts in Ukraine, against Ukraine,
02:01is not purely about Ukraine.
02:03And Putin has said that very, very clearly for him.
02:05This is a war against the European order of peace.
02:10It's a war to undermine the unity of NATO, and it's a war to undermine the way we are living
02:15in our free democracies.
02:16And we see the hybrid attacks.
02:18It's not just Ukraine that's attacked.
02:19I'm from Germany.
02:20We had these attacks, and they're no longer hybrid.
02:22We had proper attacks in Leipzig, where you had drones that could have caused real damage and cost lives.
02:29And I think there is a growing understanding in Europe that we are defending here also our way of life,
02:35our liberty,
02:36and that supporting Ukraine is really necessary, not just for Ukraine, but also for our own security.
02:41And the cost of Ukraine failing would be so much higher for us than the cost of supporting Ukraine.
02:47So I think there is determination in Europe.
02:49We are the biggest supporters of Ukraine.
02:50But I also think we have to think very clearly, what levers do we have now, and to start thinking
02:55creatively.
02:55I still think we should use the frozen assets, for instance.
02:58That would be my next question.
03:00I mean, the EU just extended sanctions on 3,000, give or take, individuals and entities.
03:09After a long and arduous process, right, what should be the next step, the next action against Russia that the
03:18EU should take?
03:19I mean, I think we really should look at what hurts Putin and what does he care about.
03:24How can we use the levers we have into leverage for peace?
03:28And I think it would be poorly advised to just go into Putin's escalatory spiral where he might have an
03:35advantage.
03:35So it's not necessarily about, like, having hybrid attacks against Russia, but really looking where does it hurt Putin.
03:40And Putin, we see, unfortunately, he doesn't care about the life of his soldiers.
03:43He doesn't care about Russian lives.
03:45But what he does care about is his wallet.
03:47And we still have over 200 billion frozen assets in European bank accounts.
03:52And I think we really should be looking very closely of how we can turn that into a leverage for
03:57peace to show Putin, you are continuing this war.
04:01You are escalating this war.
04:02It's time you start paying for it and really using that.
04:06And I think it's especially important to do that now because what we are seeing in the next few months,
04:09also with the G20 invitation of Putin into the United States,
04:14I think we as Europeans should go there with a plan, not just reacting, but actually saying, here we have
04:19a peace plan.
04:19We worked it out with Ukraine and talked to Putin to nothing else, the G20, but Ukraine.
04:23All right, Tobias Kremer, thank you so much for coming on the show this morning.
04:28I should mention also that you will be a speaker at tomorrow's Euronews Defense Summit here in Brussels.
04:34Looking forward to that.
