00:00Kapila, a very very warm welcome to the India Today South Conclave. I first
00:04wanted to know, you've also learned the
00:11Japanese art form of theatre, form of Bhutto. Where does all this insatiable
00:17appetite for the dance come from and how has it enriched you as an artist, all of
00:23these different diverse styles? I am born into an artistic family, so both my
00:39parents, my mother Nirmala Panikkar and my father Jeevenu, they are both very
00:48enthusiastic. They were very, very enthusiastic about the arts and
00:53especially when I was born was a time when their activities were really at a
01:00peak. So my father's a kudiyatam practitioner and my mother is a mohinyatam
01:06practitioner and they also have an institution like a center called Natana
01:13Kaidali and they were deeply involved in research, documentation and revival of
01:20art forms including puppetry, theatre, dances other than mohinyatam. They were
01:29involved in the research, documentation, revival, training programs, that kind of
01:34work. So I grew up, my childhood was really spent being exposed to many
01:43different art forms, not only kudiyatam and mohinyatam, but puppetry, ritual theatre,
01:51music and all of that. So that's, so I kind of grew up with a lot of that.
01:57And you were a willing teenager learning all of this because today if you tell teens
02:02or the Gen Z or Gen Alpha to take up a classical form, it's, it's quite a task, isn't it?
02:08Yeah.
02:09I can completely understand when somebody's not interested and they're in that, you know,
02:14like atmosphere, it's a different story. Somehow I was very, very interested, very
02:20interested and very almost like, I had a, even as a young child, very deep FOMO. You
02:27know, I was always worried about like, what am I missing? You know? So I was actually very
02:34interested. I did go through, you know, during teenage, I did have this thing of like, not
02:41wanting to physically exert. So that little bit of laziness, I've been through the phases
02:46of those when it came to like intense training, but the passion and the interest was quite there.
02:54I'll, I'll come to this, you know, it's a Kudiatam and it's a 2000 year old theatre form. I mean,
03:01I can't even imagine the legacy that it has. How, you know, at the center along, you know,
03:07you and your father and your mother, how are you ensuring that this practice continues?
03:12Uh, especially to make it, uh, engaging, comprehensible and desiring for the younger generation to take
03:21it up because, um, any kind of art form as someone who practices Kathak as well, it requires
03:27a next level kind of emotion and devotion. How do you do go about doing that for this generation? Yeah.
03:33Um, so Kudiatam is a very, like a, has a long unbroken tradition of practice. Um, and scholars say around
03:432000 years
03:44and so on, but the, the unbroken sort of lineage is quite long and, um, it has a, in a,
03:51a very vast repertoire
03:54and it, it is being practiced in traditional families and post independence in family, in, in, uh, by, uh, artists
04:05who are also from other communities.
04:07It's not all Nepo babies in, in Kudiatam and Angiakut.
04:11No, no, no, no.
04:12Yeah. There are outsiders also who don't come at all from a traditional legacy who take it up.
04:18Yes, yes, yes. Especially after Kerala Kalamandalam, the State Academy for the Arts,
04:23it, it really opened its doors to people from all communities.
04:27But traditionally, it was performed by specific communities as a hereditary profession.
04:33Um, so, uh, including ours, there are several, there are, um, you know, handful of ensembles in Kerala.
04:41So, all together, I think the number of Kudiatam artists are below 100.
04:46It's, it's a small community, but it's a lot actually for Kudiatam.
04:51Um, and, um, I feel like in every center that is practicing and teaching Kudiatam, we are only one among
04:59a few,
05:00a few others.
05:03Um, I think it is a very positive, um, situation as of now.
05:09In Kalamandalam, there are many young people learning.
05:12In the other centers, like Nepathya, Margi, um, and our own, uh, center, Natana Kaili, not Natana Kaili, Ammanur Guru
05:20Kulam.
05:21Um, there is a young generation and, um, they have slightly different, uh, approaches towards training, but they are interested.
05:31And I'm very hopeful when I see the younger generation perform, some of them are really brilliant and have a
05:38lot of perseverance as well.
05:40Um, so I think, yeah, it will still, it will still continue to be a small community, I think, in
05:47the future.
05:47Maybe not a popular art form, uh, but I think there will be people.
05:52You know, we were talking about your center, um, the, the center which Kapila belongs to, which was started by
05:59her father.
05:59It's a beautiful space, it's almost like a Guru Kulam, where she practices her art.
06:04It's actually quite famous for this program called the Navrasa Sadhana, which are eight intensive, you know, three week each
06:13session, where you learn the Navrasas.
06:15And I know people who, whose lives have been transformed.
06:18Uh, it's quite popular among actors too, right, Kapila?
06:21Like, it's not just dancers who are taking it up.
06:23Can you tell me a little bit about how you have taken this theater form beyond?
06:28And I know they are not learning Kudiyatam, but they are learning the essences of art forms.
06:33So tell me a little bit about that, yeah. And when did it start, yeah?
06:37So my father, before he was fully immersed into the, you know, studying Kudiyatam, he was, um, practicing theater, Kathakali.
06:49Uh, he was also kind of eclectic in his, uh, you know, training and everything.
06:54And then, um, then he spent many years working with Kudiyatam, different art forms and so on.
06:59Then, oh, I think a little bit on to the second half of his, like after his, uh, forties, he
07:06started to, um, he, he's traveled widely and he's like very interested in theater and actor training.
07:14So that is his, his real specialization, um, is in actor training.
07:19He's very good at understanding individual actors and giving them what they need to improve their craft.
07:26So he's really good at that. And which is why I think I turned into like the former I am
07:31because really it was he, he who mentored me.
07:34So in that way, he's very good with different forms, regardless of form, he has an eye and a way
07:41of, you know, leading somebody in a, in a, uh, with actor training.
07:45So slowly over the years, he was very inspired by, um, a very specific technique from the Kudungalu royal family
07:54of Kerala, which is called Swaravai, which has to do with breath and emotion.
08:00And then also connected to many techniques from Kudiyatam, but also from other, uh, performance practices that he has come
08:07across.
08:08He devised an actor training methodology, bringing all of his wisdom together.
08:12And that is called Navarasa Sadhana. And then suddenly it just kind of blew up.
08:16It's become the rage. You want to tell me some of the names who have come there?
08:19Because when you were telling me, I was like, wow, that's quite a list.
08:22Do you assist him as well in it?
08:24Sorry?
08:25Do you assist him in the program?
08:26I do assist him and I do like when he's unable to take a workshops, now he doesn't travel much.
08:31I, I kind of sort of, um, also teach, uh, but it is really his work and I'm, I'm only
08:38following and, you know, like building on what he has already built.
08:41So a lot of, um, um, dancers come from, you know, classical forms, um, contemporary theater actors and a lot
08:50of actors from film also nowadays come to attend the workshop.
08:54Do you want to tell us the actor who came recently? You have to tell us. Come on.
08:58Who, who was it?
08:59Um, oh, I don't know if it's a good thing to take names.
09:02But I think the latest actor who came from, who's like from commercial cinema is maybe Sara Arjun.
09:08She's from Dharanda. So she clearly felt that, you know, a lot of actors from Malayalam cinema, Tamar, Telugu, and
09:16sometimes Hindi, they all come.
09:18And, um, is that where the acting bug in you also much you've done a bunch of films as well?
09:24No, no. Yes. I, I have done a few films.
09:26Um, but that didn't come from this circle.
09:31I think that just incidentally happened.
09:33I worked with a couple of performance films, but I was working in the film, but I was doing, uh,
09:39things related to traditional arts and stuff.
09:41And, um, during COVID somebody found me on Instagram.
09:46We discovered on Instagram.
09:49And he had no idea who, who I was.
09:51It was a Sri Lankan film director.
09:54And he's, he understood that I could act a little bit.
09:57Um, and then he, uh, I apparently look exactly like his mother.
10:03And he it's, the film is sort of kind of, uh, his memory of the civil war.
10:08Um, and so he invited me to do the lead role in a film, um, based on the Sri Lankan
10:14war.
10:15Uh, it's called Neelira.
10:17You can watch it on Amazon prime.
10:19And I'm just wondering, since we are here, we're talking about, is there a Malayalam filmmaker that you would like
10:24to be directed with?
10:25This is a perfect pitch to make.
10:27Who are the actors and directors that you like?
10:29I've always approached me, uh, like with a good role, but I really like early Jojo's Pellisheri.
10:35So maybe I don't know.
10:36And an actor would you like to work opposite?
10:39Oh, no, nothing like that.
10:40I mean, I'm, I don't, I'm film is like, I did two films.
10:44I did a very commercial one as well.
10:46I did like a really villain character in that one.
10:49I just did it because it, I love to like do things like out of curiosity, but I'm very grounded
10:55in what I originally do.
10:57Um, but I always like to have like small escapes and do other things.
11:02And so if, if like a really compelling script might came my way, I would do it again.
11:07But yeah.
11:08I wanted to know Kapila, tell me a little bit about expanding the repertoire of Kudiyatam to make it more
11:14inclusive for women.
11:16Do you, uh, is it a, is it a tradition?
11:18Is it a theater form that gives ample opportunities?
11:21And what is the work that you have done to make sure that women sort of get center stage and
11:25spotlighted in it as well?
11:27Um, so Kudiyatam is one very unique, uh, in one way, which is that even from the, over the past
11:35many centuries, women have been a part of the ensemble, female actresses, professional actresses.
11:44There's a whole community who practice acting as a hereditary profession and they were part of the Kudiyatam ensemble and
11:53they were very highly skilled.
11:55And there are many legends about great actresses who like did great feats and, and, you know, so the woman
12:04actress is very respected, celebrated so that we have that legacy already.
12:09But over the past, I think patriarchy sort of when the stronghold became, you know, like really sort of oppressive
12:17towards women in general, um, there is that hierarchy between the male and the female performer in Kudiyatam.
12:24I think, um, one of the things that my father initiated and like really fought for was to start having
12:32more Kudiyatam plays that had female protagonists.
12:37So that was a movement and we, I mean, I'm very deeply influenced by his thinking and, you know, his
12:42feminist way of doing things.
12:45So I follow that and it's not just me.
12:54Like very strong female performers.
12:57It's a hallmark of, you know, it's like Kudiyatam is known now also very much for the very strong female
13:06performers.
13:06We've run out of time, but I'll, I'll ask you this one final question.
13:10You know, we're talking about the burden of legacy.
13:13You are the only child you've inherited this wonderful Institute, these wonderful art forms.
13:19What is your vision for the center Natana Kerali?
13:22Where do you see it going?
13:23Where do you want to take it as times evolve?
13:26You know, and, uh, you know, we see changes happening.
13:29Yeah.
13:30So the very wonderful thing about Natana Kerali that is that it has always been so flexible and adapting to
13:37what needs to be done.
13:38Uh, even though we always have walked in the, in the area of traditional theater, dance, ritual art forms, puppetry
13:46and so on, but traditional art forms of Kerala.
13:48Uh, and we continue to do that, but each, each era of Natana Kerali has slightly adapted to the needs
13:54of the time.
13:55Um, and in the future, I still continue to envision it to be a space for traditional theater performers, mainly,
14:04but also puppeteers like traditional ritual theater, um, and puppet and dance practitioners to gather and do whatever needs to
14:14be done.
14:14But like a deep study practice, uh, productions.
14:19My father's dream was to have like a space where, you know, there's like somebody's practicing music there.
14:25Somebody's drumming there.
14:26Somebody's like washing costumes there.
14:28Somebody's like, so this I would like to continue.
14:31That's a lovely, lovely.
14:32We wish you all the best for it.
14:34And if you haven't seen Kapila's work, where are you performing next Kapila in Kerala?
14:38Are you performing anytime soon?
14:40Um, not, yes, in Kerala on the 11th and 12th, on the 11th of October in the Kerala Sangeeta Nataka
14:48Academy.
14:49You should see her.
14:50She's divine.
14:51It's transformative, uh, watching her perform on stage.
14:55We really, really wish you the best.
14:56Thank you so much for coming and taking the time.
