00:10Hello and good evening. I'm Melissa Idris. Welcome to Consider This.
00:14This is the show where we want you to consider and then we consider what you know of the news
00:18of the day. A group involving 1,476 people had been returned to Myanmar from Malaysia earlier
00:26this week as part of a wider repatriation program that could eventually involve up to 5,000 people.
00:32The government of Malaysia says that the returns are voluntary. However, UNHCR has questioned whether
00:39people held in immigration detention can genuinely make a free and informed decision about returning
00:46to a country still undergoing conflict. So joining us on the show today to discuss recent developments,
00:54I have with me Sharifa Shakira, who is the founder and director of the Rohingya Women Development Network.
01:00Sharifa, thank you for being on the line with me today. Can you share with us what you know about
01:06the recent group that was returned to Myanmar? What did you hear? What can you share with us?
01:14Sure. Hi, thank you so much for having me here. Yes, it is quite concerning to hear that refugees
01:21are being repatriated, but obviously they say that it is voluntary repatriation, but I don't see any
01:27process of evaluation. I don't see any process of independent, like allowing UNHCR or other third
01:34parties to consider, you know. I think repatriation voluntarily should be considered in discussion
01:40with the clear communication to the refugees, how safe, how clear the process is, which I don't think
01:48that was taken. First place. Second place is Myanmar, the conflict in Myanmar is still going on.
01:56There's a violence still happening in Myanmar. The reason refugees seek refuge in a third country or,
02:02you know, crossing the borders is because the home is not safe. So returning to the people, going back
02:08home where the conflict is happening, the violence is there, the fear of being killed, the persecution,
02:13the rape, the torture is there. I don't think so is a vice. And it is not into the standard
02:20of humanity.
02:21There's no standard of the international, you know, like a law force and things like that. So this is
02:27really something that bothering me as a Rohingya. And also it's bother a refugee to send back to the field
02:37of,
02:37basically a killing field. Okay. So, yeah.
02:42Can I ask you, what are you hearing amongst your community? What are the, what are your fellow Rohingya
02:49community telling you specifically about these recent developments, about the deportations? But also in the past few months,
02:57we have seen such rising hostility directed to refugees. What are you hearing from your friends?
03:02Sure. Of course, I am fearing, hearing about fear. I am hearing about relieving the trauma of dehumanization
03:10that the Rohingya used to face in Arakan just for being a Rohingya. And, you know, they feeling that trauma
03:19again.
03:20And obviously I work with Rohingya families in Malaysia. And over the recent months, we have seen the growing anxiety
03:27community because of the immigration enforcement, public hostility and anti-Rohingya narratives online.
03:35And these people are so afraid of even to go out of their house. You know, children are harassed on
03:41the street.
03:42And there are calls for violence against Rohingya on social media and private WhatsApp groups.
03:48Just recently, about a few minutes ago, someone sent me a picture, a screenshot of saying that,
03:56you know, it's very scary to even hear that things. I have seen the women, the families that I work
04:05with,
04:05how traumatized they are. They say that this is exactly what we used to live in Malaysia, you know,
04:11where we used to be targeted and harassed and dehumanized. And we are feeling the same thing.
04:16And now they're asking us the questions, are we safe here? Will UNSCR card protect us?
04:22And why am I hated? And where should we go? You know, Myanmar is still going through the genocide.
04:28And what worries me more is actually seeing this sudden anger and hate towards Rohingya for the
04:36actions of, you know, like very few people. That is like, we have seen that the police commissions
04:43have mentioned is 00.2 since 2024 crime. But again, you know, being blamed for entire community
04:51and they've been condemned. And this same xenophobia, this same, you know, false narratives against
04:59Rohingya and hate campaigns Rohingya, we've seen this before. We've seen this in 2020,
05:04where Rohingya were blamed for carrying the virus of COVID. Well, we know this is not true.
05:09And obviously, I also want to emphasize this, that I live in Malaysia as a refugee child for over 20
05:17years, for two decades. You know, I know Malaysians beyond what we've seen on social media right now.
05:23I experienced the kindness from the ordinary Malaysians and many Malaysians still continue
05:28supporting the refugee today. But that's why I don't feel like this conversation, you know,
05:36shouldn't be between the Rohingya versus Malaysia. I think Malaysia has the legitimate concern about
05:42the immigration and security, for sure. But those concerns, I think deserve serious policy response,
05:50not the hate. At the same time, I think Rohingya refugees should not be collectively treated as
05:58criminal because of their status as refugee or Rohingya. And we need a solution without losing our humanity.
06:06I'm so grateful and glad that you brought that statistic up, Sharifah. If I may just reiterate that,
06:13the Malaysian police, the PDRM has come out to share that the Rohingya group accounts for only 0.02%
06:23of Malaysia's overall national crime rate. 0.02%. So let's put that into perspective.
06:30Sharifah, tell me, what message, what would you like Malaysians to understand about why Rohingya
06:38refugees cannot simply be told to, quote-unquote, go home? Because we've heard that narrative online.
06:46What would you like to say to Malaysians when they hear that narrative? Baliklah, baliklah. How would you
06:53respond to that? Sure. My answer would be that, of course, we want to balik. You know, we want to
07:00go
07:00home too. No Rohingya child dream of growing up as refugee. I never wanted a refugee life. I don't want
07:08for my children as well. No mother want to raise their children without citizenship, security or a permanent
07:14home. Arakan is our home. We know that. And we want to go home. But the go home baliklah sounds
07:21very
07:21simple when the reality is not. And for decades, Rohingya are facing genocide in the hand of the
07:28brutal Myanmar regimes and have faced restrictions on the citizenship of movement, education, basic,
07:36you know, basic rights in Myanmar. And it's still happening now. And because of the genocide,
07:42over millions, Rohingya already fled from the country by seeking refuge in neighbour countries,
07:50you know, because of all this violence. And even today, the violence in Arakan is still going
07:55on between the arms. And Rohingya are, you know, affected by these armed conflicts and serious,
08:02facing serious insecurity. So when someone tells Rohingya, you know, go home baliklah, my question
08:09will be go home to what? Go home dengan cara apa? You know, and will Myanmar recognize us as a
08:19citizen?
08:20Will we be able to return to our village and our land? Will we, our children, be able to attend
08:26to school?
08:27Can we move freely? Who will protect us from all this violence? And will something happen?
08:34If something happened to us after we return, who will be accountable for this violence?
08:42I want Malaysians to know that Rohingya are not seeking refuge to remain here forever.
08:49We are asking for the, just a temporary shelter until we can go home, until the conflict,
08:57the genocide is resolved. We receive the justice that we deserve. And, you know, it's just simple
09:04question to the ordinary Malaysian as well. Do you want your children to grow up and live in a fear
09:11and trauma and a conflict area? Do you want it? No, right? We are also same human that just deserve
09:18to breathe
09:19freely and deserve to be, have that freedom, you know, just protection as much as we need just to be
09:28safe.
09:29Nothing else. Can I bring us back then to the repatriation program? So apparently this is the first group.
09:39There will be more groups to come in the future, according to the government of Malaysia.
09:45What are you hoping will happen in the meantime? There is talk about how Malaysia cannot host
09:52refugees indefinitely. There is talk of the Prime Minister meeting with the Myanmar Junta leader
09:58to discuss the refugee issue. What are your thoughts on that, Sherifah? And what do you hope Malaysia,
10:04what position do you hope Malaysia takes on that?
10:07Sure, I agree totally that Malaysia cannot carry this responsibility alone of hosting refugees,
10:15you know, in the country. But again, Malaysia have hosted refugees. Malaysia have experience of how
10:24a refugee has been handled before as well. So I think there is a solution. There is a way.
10:29But I think Malaysia is not the party of the refugee convention. But despite that, Malaysia have done so
10:41much for refugees in the past and currently as well, which is, we are grateful. But I think the
10:46international community also should recognize this responsibility and provide greater support to
10:52Malaysia and other countries that are hosting refugees. And, you know, but I think deporting
10:59to the people into the deeper danger, conflict area is not the solution of underlying the crisis. We need
11:10responsibility sharing. ASEAN need to play a strong role. The international community needs to support
11:17countries hosting refugees, including Malaysia. Resettlement and other pathways need to remain available for the
11:24vulnerable people. And most importantly, I think the international pressure must focus on creating
11:30conditions in Myanmar that allow refugees to return voluntarily and safely and within the rights. So the long-term
11:39solution for Rohingya is not the permanent refugee life in Malaysia. The long-term solution is being able to
11:47return to our homeland safely, with dignity and with full citizenship rights.
11:52Definitely. Sharifa, thank you so much for joining me on the show today. Sharifa Shakira, the Founder and Director of
11:57the
11:58Rohingya Women's Development Network. We're going to take a quick break here and consider this. We'll be back with more.
12:03Stay tuned.
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