India’s External Affairs Minister S. Jaishankar has defended India’s long-standing relationship with Russia, stressing that New Delhi’s foreign policy is shaped by national interests, strategic priorities and historical ties rather than pressure from Western powers. Speaking at the Munich Security Conference, Jaishankar highlighted Russia’s past role in supporting India during difficult geopolitical periods and explained why India continues to maintain strong economic and strategic engagement with Moscow. He also addressed criticism over India’s energy purchases from Russia and its position on the Russia-Ukraine conflict, emphasizing India’s approach as a pragmatic effort focused on energy security, supply chains and global stability.
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00:00I would say, look, India and Russia have historically very good relations, particularly since the 1950s.
00:10And that history is not forgotten.
00:14I mean, generally in most cases people neither forget good history or bad history.
00:20For us, Russia and Soviet Union before that was a country that stood by us in many ways
00:27when our security, when our territorial integrity was under threat.
00:34And at a time when, you know, much of the world preferred backing a military regime next to us,
00:43Russia was a country with which our relations were very good.
00:47And it has, you know, we are obviously shaped in many ways by that legacy.
00:54Today, the relationship has widened beyond that.
00:58You know, it is, again, the world has changed.
01:01We have changed.
01:03Our own relationships are not what they were in the 70s and 80s.
01:07Neither is the case with Russia's.
01:10So, like any relationship, it is refreshed.
01:14It undergoes a change.
01:15New issues come.
01:16Old issues sometimes get rebalanced.
01:21So, it is very much more today an economic relationship as well.
01:28So, there is a military component.
01:29There are nuclear components.
01:31There are space issues.
01:32But there is a significant amount of trade and investment between the two countries.
01:37And, of course, energy and resources as well.
01:41So, our, you know, any country would, when you view another country, you judge it from our experiences.
01:48I mean, I can't expect Europe, for example, to look at the world and say, okay, what does India think
01:54and my view should be based on India's experience.
01:57Europe will base its judgment on Europe's experience.
02:01India will base its judgment on India's experience.
02:03So, India's experience has been, frankly, quite positive and consistently positive.
02:11I think, first of all, you know, when panelists agree, there's a bit of a problem because you don't know
02:15how to take the panel forward after that.
02:17So, I wish we had disagreed a bit more.
02:20But let me try and find some points of disagreement.
02:25And I will start, Ambassador, with actually what you said.
02:29You know, viewed from India, how does Europe look?
02:33I would say, to be very honest, I mean, there is a lot that Europe can offer to the world.
02:41There is sort of a big attraction in terms of a big benefit in terms of a deeper partnership.
02:50I would say, candidly, at times, I feel Europe itself may be insufficiently aware of it.
02:58And it has been defined broadly, you know, people think in economic terms.
03:08But if one looks, for example, at technology, if one looks at standards, if one looks at innovation,
03:17today, Europe is a world leader in many, many domains.
03:21So, and, again, I'm giving you a distant perspective, a faraway spectator.
03:28The fact is also that for all your internal debates, and I know they are very vigorous with the passage
03:35of time,
03:36the fact is that there has also been a process of consolidation of Europe.
03:41At least that's how it looks from outside.
03:44I mean, you may be, there may be nuances, there may be divergences.
03:48You each one have your internal politics.
03:50But Europe as a whole has, in the last few years, become more cohesive.
03:55And therefore, on the world stage, more, potentially more credible as one of the poles of the multipolar order.
04:03So, it's a, I would say, as the Indian on the rostrum,
04:10I do think Europe has really a very powerful case today and, frankly, offers a very strong attraction for a
04:20country like India
04:21to reach out and develop its relationship.
04:25Now, having said that, I would also point out where there have been shortcomings on our part,
04:31that we have historically tended to look at the larger nation-states of Europe.
04:37The engagement with, let us say, Berlin or Paris or when London was part of the EU or even Rome
04:47was stronger than they were with Brussels.
04:50And a big change in the last decade, a big change, particularly in the last four or five years,
04:57you know, last year, for the first time, we had all the commissioners of the European Commission come to India.
05:05Now, I would say, before that, I'm not even sure, other than the HRVP, who deals with foreign policy,
05:14how many commissioners were even known to their Indian counterparts.
05:17Maybe the trade one was, but not beyond that.
05:20Whereas now, the level of familiarity, the level of intimacy, the engagement, the conversation,
05:27that has changed the fact that we have a body like the Trade and Technology Council,
05:33where we discuss a whole lot of technology issues,
05:37that we are actually discussing what you do in third countries, what do we do in third countries.
05:43That, again, is a change out there.
05:47So, we are in the process of, I would say, I don't want to say discovering the European Union,
05:56but at least intensifying that relationship.
05:58And it will require a lot of improvisation and innovation on our path.
06:03I mean, you are 27 countries.
06:05It's hard to engage 27 in the room at the same time with deep intensity.
06:10So, what you have, for example, is something we started a few years ago,
06:15which is a separate meeting with the Nordic group.
06:19Now, we have found that to be very, very productive,
06:21because, again, the Nordics have, you know, these are all high technology powers,
06:29some of them strong manufacturing powers.
06:32A lot of them have energy interests, including in renewables.
06:35Now, we are now attempting something, I hope, which will go forward,
06:41which is try to meet with the Visagrad 4 on a more sustained basis.
06:46So, we'll have to divide Europe into more subgroups and engage more deeply.
06:53So, when we talk in terms of emerging and middle powers and how do you engage,
06:59certainly is a practical proposition for me,
07:01because many emerging and middle powers happen to be EU members
07:05that, you know, do it in a kind of bite-sized, handleable package,
07:13which will, while engaging European Union as a whole.
07:17And then we'll have to look at new domains.
07:20Your mobility is one.
07:23Today, when I look, I would say last two years of just a country like Germany,
07:32Germany's approach towards mobility of talent has actually profoundly changed,
07:37at least in so far as India is concerned,
07:39that we see today in many areas Indians present, working, welcome, accepted in Germany.
07:48The same thing, I would say, I'm seeing in a few other countries.
07:52When you go to an ASML or an IMDB,
07:56I mean, when you look at the number of Indians who are working there,
07:59you can see that many of the practices which we associate with the United States
08:05are actually now seeping into the European corporate thinking,
08:12that they are scouting talent from other countries.
08:15They are open to bringing talent to other countries.
08:17and I think we have new areas of work there.
08:22The bit which we would like to see more active is on the education side.
08:27You know, this country is now open to foreign universities,
08:30you know, very, really in a very sort of innovative way.
08:34But the first set of universities which have come have not come from Europe.
08:39They have come from Australia, Australia, New Zealand, some from the UK.
08:45But we would hope, you know, in a field like education,
08:49that we will be able to actually see much more coming out of Europe.
08:54Great.
08:56Thank you very much.
08:57I want to remind our participants that in just a few minutes,
09:03we'll open this up to your questions.
09:07So prepare your thoughts.
09:10We have about half an hour or so, roughly, for a Q&A session.
09:19But before we turn to that, let me go back to both of you
09:23and start, you know, following up on what you just said about the relationship,
09:28not between individual EU members and India, but between India and the EU proper.
09:36I looked at the numbers just an hour ago, the trade numbers.
09:42I mean, it's staggering what the growth literally in both directions has been
09:49in terms of export trade from Europe to India and vice versa.
09:54It's really a tremendous success story.
09:56So that's, of course, great news.
09:59The question is, do you see, you know, further steps in this relationship
10:07going beyond trade, investment, economic issues?
10:13Is there room for a wider partnership?
10:18And maybe you want to comment on that also.
10:21Do you want to go?
10:23Well, yes, absolutely.
10:25I would say if one looks, for example, at technology, at innovation,
10:32at emerging domains, not just emerging players,
10:37I mean, something like advanced manufacturing, semiconductors,
10:41these are areas definitely a partnership can increase.
10:45If you look even at the AI debate, that, you know, what kind of AI are we looking at?
10:51What should be the regulations?
10:52Should there be guardrails?
10:54What kind of user cases would be developed?
10:57Again, there is a considerable degree of convergence between the European thinking on AI
11:02and the Indian thinking on AI.
11:07So, and I would argue even in an area like life sciences, that is the case.
11:15What is happening now if you were to track global GCCs, the global capability centers,
11:23the centers which today multinational companies are establishing in a way to get optimal use of global talent.
11:34I think GCCs are becoming also a bridge today between our economies and our corporates
11:41without actually the physical mobility which is involved in this kind of knowledge-driven activity.
11:49So, the whole, again, another area is space.
11:53That, you know, Europe today realizes that it must have its own space capabilities, you know.
12:01And that ambition has always been there in India.
12:06So, when I look at many of the loads in our space launches,
12:12because we are today really expanding our capability to do space launches
12:21on a much more globally competitive and significant basis
12:26and creating infrastructure for that.
12:30Even in an area like defense, as I said,
12:34that we do see that Europe has a determination today to rebuild its defense industry.
12:46But, as I said, defense is not static.
12:49So, the nature of products, the nature of technology, the nature of warfighting has changed.
12:55So, again, what are the partners that you are looking for?
12:59And we are finding it very interesting that many of our startups today have found partners abroad,
13:05but then so have many of our orthodox industries, you know.
13:09There are areas like, say, ammunition production
13:12or even certain kinds of weapons, artillery, for example,
13:19or vehicles of certain categories,
13:22where we have today a global competence.
13:24Our defense exports are growing very rapidly.
13:28So, I would say, yes, absolutely, there is a wider agenda.
13:34There is a wider agenda in terms of India, Europe.
13:38But there is a wider agenda also about how we shape the world.
13:42Because, you know, if we limit it to a narrow benefit or make it too transactional,
13:49then we are missing out on what is actually going to affect all of us,
13:53which is the nature of the world.
13:54And when you have initiatives like P4M or, you know, we have debates.
14:02Secretary, you mentioned, the UN Security Council.
14:08That, you know, we are united in our belief that what we need is a better UN.
14:14We don't need no UN.
14:15You know, the idea is not to throw away the UN, but to fix the UN.
14:20So, how today to work the multilateral system, how to shape the big debates?
14:28Both of us have a strong climate action commitment.
14:31So, that again, you know, it is important today to protect that particular domain
14:38and to take it forward because developing countries are very much at the receiving end of climate change.
14:45So, sure, there is a very, very compelling case for a wider relationship.
14:53Well, once again, it is hard to find something to criticise.
14:58Well, first of all, we were very happy that the free trade agreement between the European Union and India
15:07was finalised in this year.
15:10And the free trade agreement with India was one of several agreements the European Union finalised this year.
15:20So, with Mexico, with Mercosur, with the Philippines, we are in negotiations with Thailand.
15:26So, this alone shows that Europe is really trying to build up different pillars,
15:31especially now when partners or former partners or partners are trying to limit free world trade.
15:45So, I think it's a good signal that we have this free trade agreement.
15:52You mentioned already the different categories we can build upon and we have to intensify.
16:00One issue for me is important.
16:04The world is changing and we need partners to set standards.
16:08And I think with India, we have a close partner, especially for standard setting in different fields,
16:15in the economic field, in the field of artificial intelligence, etc.
16:23I think if we don't do it, others will do it and they will not do it in our favour.
16:30The second issue is, once again, I would like to intensify also the political cooperation,
16:36the exchange on different issues.
16:42We have very often a common understanding also coming from a different perspective.
16:48And we can profit from that.
16:50And as you mentioned, we are two billion people.
16:53We have strong institutions.
16:57Also, sometimes the European Union could better perform.
17:01We have to modernise us, definitely.
17:04But we are strong and stable organisations.
17:07And together with India, I think we can really be a very strong couple.
17:14Before we turn to you, I need to raise two small issues.
17:21They are actually not that small.
17:24First, could you talk a little bit about how you view this ongoing AI race
17:34and where is India's position after the summit between Trump and Xi Jinping recently?
17:43My understanding has been that India, like most of us in Europe,
17:48would favour a more comprehensive governance of the future of AI.
17:57So that's my first question.
17:59The second question is a more direct strategic issue.
18:05Iran.
18:07Now, India happens to be a nuclear power.
18:13We, Germany, France, and the United Kingdom,
18:17we actually started in 2003, that's 23 years ago,
18:23to discuss with our Iranian counterparts
18:27how we could prevent Iran from emerging as a military nuclear power.
18:35And now here we are with the aftermath of the American intervention
18:43with an unresolved issue, as I see it.
18:47So what's the Indian position on what should not be done,
18:53what should be done, what should happen in this situation?
18:57I assume that India, like we in Europe,
19:01would not like to see the emergence of more nuclear powers,
19:07regardless of whether one believes in the NPT or not.
19:12But certainly from our point of view, as a non-nuclear country,
19:17new and additional nuclear powers would not be much appreciated.
19:21So these two issues, AI and how to deal with Iran,
19:29if you could briefly, and then we'll open it up.
19:32Well, on AI, I think our position was very sort of amply demonstrated
19:41in the AI Impact Summit that we did in February this year.
19:45And the theme of it itself was a message.
19:48It was called AI for All.
19:50So the whole idea, I mean, you know, in this country,
19:54we've actually used the digital capabilities,
20:01the digital tools today to bring about a massive governance
20:05and social transformation.
20:08So people perceive AI also as something which must become accessible,
20:18affordable, used really for a certain socio-economic purpose.
20:26Obviously, you know, people will develop other capabilities, etc.
20:30So the key is really very much about it's a sort of AI for humanity,
20:37develop user cases which are relatable to people's needs.
20:41That's the kind of vision that we have.
20:43And along with that, also a concern about, you know,
20:50the safety and security issues that arise.
20:54And this is too major, you know, an issue to leave it to the market, so to speak.
21:02On the Iran issue, first of all, I do want to make a very clear distinction.
21:08You know, India was a country which did not sign the NPT
21:11and which reserved its rights.
21:13Iran was a country which signed the NPT.
21:17So the situation is very, very different.
21:21So right now, for us, the concern is more immediately on the energy
21:34and trade disruptions which have happened as a consequence to this conflict.
21:43Because, you know, one does, you get these reports,
21:47well, energy flows were very good today,
21:49but, you know, last week it was almost the same as what it was.
21:53But the fact is, energy markets are deeply unsettled.
21:56The price of energy tells you really what the sentiment is
22:00and what the market expectation is.
22:02And, you know, you can't have oil at above 100 and pretend that things are near normal.
22:10They are not.
22:11So that is our big concern, which is how do we ensure,
22:16because, you know, this is not economics in a detached sense.
22:21I mean, this is people's kitchens, these are people's jobs,
22:25these are people's livelihoods,
22:27and these are all on the line for us
22:29because we were primarily dependent on that part of the world.
22:33So what we want to see today is a restoration of that uninterrupted flow of energy,
22:41of trade, of mobility,
22:43because we are paying the price in many ways for conflicts in which we have no part
22:49and which are often very distant from us.
22:51And we also hope that whatever emerges is in consonance with international law.
22:58That is also an important factor in our minds.
23:02Thank you very much.
23:04Maybe just one comment on Iran.
23:07No distinction, but I think one issue is also important.
23:11Iran should stop threatening its neighbors.
23:16I think this is one important issue we have to keep in mind
23:20and talking about a sustainable solution for the region.
23:25So now we open it up.
23:28If you could please be kind enough to identify yourself
23:32so that our panel knows who you are.
23:38And please also, if you could,
23:40make clear whether your question is directed at both panelists
23:44or at only one of them.
23:46And we'll maybe start with the lady here in the middle.
23:53Thank you very much.
23:56Anja Wielershoek.
23:57I'm the international editor of the German newspaper Tagesspiegel.
24:01My question is for Minister Jay Shankar.
24:04Many Europeans see the growing partnership with India
24:08as a great opportunity.
24:10But a pain point is, of course, India's relationship with Russia.
24:16And I'd like to hear where you see the future
24:20of the Indian-Russian relationship,
24:23given, of course, the historical ties,
24:25India's defense industrial ties with Russia
24:28and its dependence on energy security.
24:34But where do you see India's partnership with Russia headed?
24:38Would it be okay if we collect two or three?
24:42So the gentleman with the glasses in the middle.
24:46Yeah.
24:49Thank you very much.
24:50My name is Lukasz Pawlowski.
24:52I'm the head of policy planning department at Polish MFA.
24:56I'm very grateful that the Germans asked the questions
24:58about Russia first.
25:00Thank you very much.
25:01But I wanted to follow up on that.
25:03I would like to know your opinion
25:06on Russia's place or self-image
25:09within that framework of emerging powers and middle powers.
25:14because Russia tends to think about itself
25:19not as a middle power, obviously,
25:21but as a great power or great civilization even,
25:25whereas the facts show that it's not even upper middle class.
25:29So I'd like to know your opinion.
25:31How do we manage Russia within that framework?
25:36So everything you always wanted to say about Russia,
25:39now is the chance.
25:42Well, on the first issue,
25:46I would say,
25:46look, India and Russia
25:49have historically very good relations,
25:53particularly since the 1950s.
25:56And that history is not forgotten.
26:00I mean, generally, in most cases,
26:03people neither forget good history or bad history.
26:06For us, Russia and Soviet Union before that
26:09was a country that stood by us
26:12in many ways when our security,
26:15when our territorial integrity was under threat.
26:20And at a time when, you know,
26:23much of the world preferred backing
26:26a military regime next to us,
26:29Russia was a country with which
26:31our relations were very good.
26:33And it has, you know,
26:34we are obviously shaped in many ways
26:36by that legacy.
26:39Today,
26:40the relationship has widened beyond that.
26:43You know, it is,
26:45again,
26:46the world has changed.
26:47We have changed.
26:48Our own relationships
26:50are not what they were in the 70s and 80s.
26:53Neither is the case with Russia's.
26:55So,
26:56like any relationship,
26:58it is refreshed.
26:59It undergoes a change.
27:01New issues come.
27:02Old issues
27:03sometimes
27:06get rebalanced.
27:07So,
27:08it is very much more today
27:10an economic relationship as well.
27:13So,
27:14there is a military component,
27:15there are nuclear components,
27:16there are space issues,
27:18but there is a significant amount of trade
27:20and investment
27:21between the two countries.
27:23And, of course,
27:24energy and resources as well.
27:27So,
27:28our,
27:28you know,
27:28any country would,
27:30when you view another country,
27:31you judge it from our experiences.
27:34I mean,
27:34I can't expect Europe,
27:36for example,
27:37to look at the world
27:38and say,
27:39okay,
27:39what does India think
27:40and my view should be based on India's experience.
27:43Europe will base
27:44its judgment
27:45on Europe's experience.
27:46India will base
27:47its judgment
27:48on India's experience.
27:49So,
27:50India's experience
27:51has been,
27:53frankly,
27:54quite positive
27:55and consistently positive.
27:57Having said that,
27:58I mean,
27:58we are seeing today
27:59an unfortunate conflict.
28:01Our position
28:02on that conflict
28:03has been
28:04very clear,
28:05which is that
28:06we would like to see
28:06an end to this conflict.
28:08And we believe that
28:09this will require
28:11dialogue and diplomacy.
28:12There has to be
28:13negotiations
28:14in this regard.
28:15We have been
28:16advocating it
28:17for many years.
28:18and in recent months
28:20we have got
28:21a little bit more
28:22involved
28:22beyond advocacy.
28:25So,
28:26we
28:28have
28:31conversations
28:31with both
28:32Russia and Ukraine
28:34in this regard.
28:35We are
28:36trying to be helpful
28:37starting with
28:39the Black Sea
28:40safety
28:41of shipping issue
28:42but
28:43going beyond that
28:44to cover
28:45some immediate
28:46concerns
28:46which
28:47both of them
28:48have
28:49on grain exports,
28:51on energy exports,
28:52on non-attack
28:53possibilities.
28:55So,
28:55those are
28:56ongoing
28:56conversations
28:57right now.
28:59On the
29:01question of
29:02what is
29:05Russia's
29:06perception
29:07of itself,
29:07look,
29:08I want to make
29:09one broader point.
29:10I mean,
29:11I use
29:11the word
29:13emerging
29:13and middle
29:13powers
29:14not because
29:15I like
29:15the word
29:15because
29:16that was
29:16what the
29:17panel
29:17was given,
29:18that was
29:18the term
29:19given to me.
29:20If I sat
29:21and thought
29:21about it,
29:22I am not
29:22even sure
29:22I would
29:23fit into it.
29:24So,
29:25I might,
29:25in fact,
29:26ambassador
29:26gave me
29:27an opening
29:27to sort
29:28of say,
29:29well,
29:29maybe I
29:30should escape
29:30from that
29:31category
29:31and go
29:31higher than
29:32that.
29:32And after
29:33all,
29:33my self
29:34perception
29:34of myself
29:35is I am
29:36a 7,000
29:36year old
29:37civilizational
29:37power.
29:38So,
29:39you know,
29:39I would
29:41look around
29:42the world
29:42and say,
29:42okay,
29:43there are
29:43very few
29:43others
29:43who would
29:44qualify
29:44under that
29:45criteria.
29:45So,
29:46countries
29:46have their
29:47self
29:47perception
29:48partly
29:48based
29:49on their
29:49history,
29:50partly
29:50based
29:51also
29:51on their
29:52capability,
29:53on their
29:53near history.
29:54So,
29:56I would
29:57say,
29:57and there
29:57is a
29:58great deal
29:58of subjectivism
29:59in putting
30:01countries
30:01in these
30:02slots.
30:03So,
30:04I think
30:04it is best
30:05to leave
30:06that debate
30:07at that
30:07point.
30:09Great.
30:11Next
30:11questions.
30:12Maybe
30:13we can go
30:14to the
30:15gentleman
30:15here in
30:15the second
30:16row,
30:16who has
30:17been
30:17urgently
30:18requesting
30:18the
30:19floor.
30:21Thank
30:22you.
30:22Thank
30:22you very
30:23much for
30:23the very
30:24thoughtful
30:24statements.
30:26I'm
30:26Nick Stern.
30:27Can you
30:27say who
30:27you are?
30:28Yes.
30:28I'm
30:29Nick Stern
30:29from the
30:30London
30:30School of
30:31Economics,
30:33wishing that
30:34we still
30:34were in
30:34the
30:35European
30:35Union.
30:37my question
30:38is about
30:39the crucial
30:42story of
30:43climate
30:44action and
30:45the
30:46alternative
30:47parts,
30:48different
30:48parts of
30:49industrialization
30:50which you
30:51mentioned,
30:52Minister
30:52Jaishankar.
30:54The action
30:54agenda is
30:55investment.
30:56So the
30:57question is
30:57how can
30:59Europe and
31:00India work
31:01together to
31:03generate the
31:03investment for
31:04green and
31:05intelligent growth
31:06which will
31:06drive Vixit
31:08Bharat and
31:08which will
31:09drive action
31:10on climate
31:11change.
31:11And in
31:12particular the
31:12role of the
31:13international
31:14financial
31:16institutions and
31:17the multilateral
31:18development
31:18banks and
31:19reminding
31:20that
31:21EIB
31:51the
32:28Thank you, Chairman, to Minister Jaishankar, Salma Bhava from Professor for European Studies
32:34at JNU.
32:35You spoke about cooperation and shaping a new world order, and I draw your attention to
32:40the 16th India Youth Summit, which happened this year.
32:43A new roadmap has been put out, but in a period of uncertainty, and you spoke about the U.S.
32:50underwriting the global order, how would you see India and the European Union, and maybe
32:56at the bilateral level, producing those kind of global public goods, which have traditionally
33:02been assumed that the U.S. would provide?
33:06Both are, whether we use these labels of emerging or middle powers, there are limitations to what
33:13one can do collectively.
33:15So from a security perspective, in terms of, you know, being a provider, guarantor, or even
33:20securing, are we even talking about it, or are we limited by a sense of political imagination?
33:27Or you think, because I think the FDA is done, there is a MOU on security and defense, which
33:35is a really remarkable achievement and a political breakthrough in how a political partnership
33:40can be framed.
33:41So do you see a kind of new, at least, sign, 80 years of the U.N.?
33:46Are we looking at a different kind of agenda setting?
33:50All right.
33:51That's also for the hard work.
33:52Yeah, yeah.
33:53So why don't you have a first shot?
33:56Well, I think the climate issue is a very good opportunity to foster the cooperation between
34:03Europe and India.
34:05It's not only the question, and you mentioned it, it's not only the question, money and technology,
34:12how to finance it.
34:14I think this is an important issue.
34:16We have different possibilities on the national level, but also on the European level.
34:23And of course, there is also a political will to do it.
34:30I think the climate issue is one topic where both sides can profit, and we have to act.
34:39And that's not one way.
34:41We are not giving only the technology.
34:43It's also the investment coming from India in our enterprises, which is important.
34:50So in this context, that's a perfect issue where we should intensify our bilateral cooperation.
35:00Do you want to take the other one?
35:03Okay.
35:04On the, Nick, on the climate one, look, there have been both, not just conversations, there
35:12have actually been projects between India and Europe.
35:16One which readily comes to my mind is the German involvement with our solar, you know, the growth
35:26of solar renewables in India.
35:33And we are, today, our hope is the FDA, you know, I would not sort of diminish it saying,
35:46okay, you know, I'm not looking at you here.
35:48I'm now looking next to you.
35:51That it's not, you know, FDA is done, so it's out of the way.
35:54Look, with the European Union, having an FDA makes you a serious partner.
36:03And it's almost, it's actually not almost, it is a real game changer.
36:09It's a game changer in how you perceive each other.
36:12Many other things which are not directly trade related will happen because there will be comfort
36:18created by the FDA, the ability of businesses, of regulatory bodies, of bureaucracy to know
36:26each other.
36:27And I expect that FDA to actually have almost like a cascading impact through the entirety
36:35of our relationship with Europe.
36:37So, when it comes to, when it comes to climate, Nick, the, you know, we certainly seek international
36:49cooperation, collaboration, not purely as a G2G, frankly, often as a B2B.
36:55You know, we would like to see, obviously, big infrastructure projects will require, you know,
37:02sovereign borrowing, will require MDBs to come in.
37:07But, a big part of it will also be to attract, you know, this huge European renewable capacity,
37:16renewable energy capacity, to get them to come into India.
37:20And we ourselves today, if you look at it, our own international cooperation, we are talking
37:26Heidel with, you know, we're trying to double down on Heidel with Bhutan, we're trying to build
37:31it up with Nepal, we're discussing wind with Sri Lanka.
37:34So, we have very ambitious renewable targets because we feel the pressure of climate change.
37:42And here, Europe will be a crucial factor because Europe has the technology, Europe has the business
37:48expertise.
37:49When you are looking at, you know, offshore wind, for example, I mean, Europe is by far the leader
38:00of that game.
38:01So, these are areas.
38:03I mean, when I laid out, you know, what could be an emerging middle power agenda, frankly,
38:10in my mind, a lot of it was really an India-Europe agenda, which I was putting in broader terms
38:15to fit into the discipline of the guidance.
38:21On the issue of where do we, you know, who will fill for global goods, my point was the current
38:30system,
38:30as we have it, was significantly underwritten by the United States.
38:36That underwriting, we can all see, is going, you know, is diluting.
38:41And there are gaps which, which, which have emerged.
38:48A very ready example that we cite is about 22 years ago, 20 odd years ago, you know, there
38:58was a big tsunami in the Indian Ocean.
39:00And that tsunami, the response for that tsunami primarily came from the United States to some
39:07extent, from Japan, a little bit from Europe and India.
39:11Today, if you actually have a big disaster event in the, in this region, if I were to
39:19say who picks up the load, you, we had this huge cyclone in Sri Lanka, cyclone Dittwa, or
39:25the flash flood, which we just had in Nepal.
39:27So, you can already see who, you know, who's filling in the gaps, you know, what has been
39:33the shift.
39:33And in India's case, we are conscious that as our economy grows, as our, you know, standing
39:40grows, our responsibility and contributions also have to grow.
39:43So, I would argue that where global goods are concerned, well, you know, we can't speak
39:50of a multipolar world for everything else and say, oh, it will remain unipolar for certain
39:55things.
39:55It will, if it changes, it changes as a whole.
39:57And it is changing as a whole.
39:59So, there will have to be more India-EU conversations.
40:04And, in fact, that is, that is happening.
40:08I mean, I, I talked to some of my counterparts, for example, Commissioner Sikella, who deals
40:13with some part of this.
40:15And, you know, what, what can be projects that India and EU can do in third countries?
40:22You know, can we support sustainability?
40:25Can we do more in renewables?
40:28Are we, even capacity building training?
40:30I mean, we have, when you look at capacity building and training, well, obviously, we have
40:36our own demands.
40:37But our, our, the numbers we can handle are very, very significant.
40:41I mean, we have students by the, and trainees by the tens of thousands.
40:46So, we can make a difference here.
40:49And it's certainly an area which, which we should be great.
40:53Great.
40:54Maybe one, one comment, additional comment.
40:57Well, the gaps are global.
41:00And the competition to fill the gaps, to fill the gaps is also global.
41:04So, it's not only, we are not the only one who are there who, who can offer something.
41:11Others are too.
41:12And, therefore, it is important not only to focus on one region.
41:17We have to, to see that also in Africa, there is taking place a race on, on economic and
41:25political influence.
41:26And this we also have to take into consideration.
41:28So, our cooperation should not be between India and maybe, and, and, and Europe and its
41:35neighboring regions.
41:36We have to go to, to Africa and also to Latin America to, to fill these gaps.
41:42We have time for exactly one more double question.
41:48So, let me turn to the gentleman in the third row.
41:55Yes.
41:57And then, next to the gentleman behind him.
42:02Okay.
42:04Thank you, Minister, for the interesting observation on the convergence of AI approaches between EU
42:11and India.
42:12Can you say who you are, please?
42:14My name is Labnish and I work for SAP.
42:16See, the, the point that I wanted to raise is this fragmentation in the approaches to AI across
42:23the globe.
42:24You know, see, in Europe, regulation, the regulated AI in US, the innovation for AI, some parts
42:31it is controlling the AI and in India, it's the inclusion of AI.
42:36Given this whole fragmentation on one side and the aspiration for trade on the other side,
42:43do you see a structure, a framework appearing which will actually become the integration
42:50for business and consumers or across to actually get the best of everything?
42:56And if not, you know, how long this fragmentation will continue to impact the trade, if, if you
43:03have a view on that.
43:05All right.
43:07And now the gentleman behind.
43:11Thank you, Ambassador.
43:12Minister Shashenko.
43:13My name is Henry Huiyao Wa.
43:15I'm from, from Center for China and Globalization.
43:18So, it's great to hear all of you.
43:20And my question is that I would like to congratulate India just held a very successful BRICS summit last
43:26month, and also China is going to host the next BRICS summit in Beijing.
43:33So, my question would be, you know, BRICS countries are now, you talk about emerging countries,
43:39midpowers, but BRICS is now a very large block now, represents 50% of global population,
43:46almost by purchase parity is 40-50% of global GDP.
43:50So, what do you see in the future, the cooperation among the BRICS countries in terms of economy
43:55as a new, I would talk about New Delhi to a new momentum, would that be a new momentum
44:01as well for BRICS countries to collaborate?
44:05But, of course, with Europe, with Latin American, African, everyone.
44:14Do we have time?
44:16Okay.
44:17Where were, if we can take two more, the gentleman there and in the middle?
44:25Thank you very much.
44:26Tristan, our director of policy planning at the French MFA.
44:29I have a question for you, Minister Jay Shankar.
44:31As you said, the whole discussion on middle powers is largely a consequence of a repositioning
44:38from the U.S., and over the past months, there has been some turbulence, let's put it this
44:42way, in India-U.S. relations, as well as in U.S.-Europe relations, and I'd be really interested
44:49in getting your sense from an Indian perspective as to whether this is a parenthesis or a structural
44:57repositioning from the U.S., and what consequences you drove from it in terms of the future of
45:03U.S.-India relations.
45:09Okay.
45:10And finally, the, yes, please.
45:16Hi, my name is Matthias Gebauer.
45:18I'm with German magazine Der Spiegel.
45:20Minister, if you allow me, I would like to abuse this little round here for one concrete question.
45:25You have been mentioning defense corporations, and obviously there's one big deal looming
45:31in the last couple of months, which is the submarine deal between India and Germany.
45:36So my very simple question is, since we've been reading some headlines today, will we see
45:42an Indian signature in the very near future?
45:51On the fragmentation, you know, look, I feel we are still in the relatively early stages
46:03of the AI debate.
46:04I mean, your expectation that we will get a structured pathway is probably a little optimistic
46:14at this point of time, because there are, I think there are too many moving parts.
46:21There is too much at stake.
46:23The competitive instincts are strong.
46:26The, the, even, even the, the range of user case, which, which will shape what people's
46:35expectations of the benefits are, are not yet clear.
46:39So, so my, my sense is your, it's a good question, probably posed a bit too early in terms of
46:47time.
46:48On the gentleman behind you on the BRICS, you know, it's, it's very interesting on, on the
46:55BRICS, because the BRICS goes through this, how, how weighty is it?
46:59Will it, will it work?
47:01Does it make a difference, et cetera?
47:03And over a period of time, we have shown it does.
47:06I mean, the fact that so many countries want to join BRICS, the fact that we doubled the
47:11membership, and frankly, we could have quadrupled it without difficulty.
47:16So, it does show today that people want to have different conversations.
47:21They want to have other players in the room.
47:24They want to do their own thing.
47:25And the challenge for BRICS now is to develop a deeper and deeper agenda, you know, to,
47:35to fit with the growing space.
47:38I mean, it's a case where the agenda and the profile are keep, you know, competing with
47:44each other.
47:44And, and my sense is that as the BRICS increases in its membership and rises in its profile, you
47:53know, many more issues will, will come on the agenda.
47:57On the question on, you know, the United States, look, some, some of it may be, may be passing
48:09or may be, may be limited to a particular administration.
48:13But there are deeper changes going on in the United States.
48:17If you saw even between Trump one and Biden, many policies which President Trump initiated
48:26in his first administration continued under Biden.
48:30I mean, the very idea of the United States having an industrial policy, which, which historically,
48:36you know, Americans were very uncomfortable with, it, it actually persisted under Biden.
48:42So, I, I would say it's important here to distinguish the, the more structural trends from the, from
48:53the behavioral ones and take both of them, you know, seriously.
48:59And on the, on the submarine deal, I can give you two answers.
49:05One, you could ask the state secretary.
49:08The second, my ministry doesn't deal with it.
49:14You know, the first question a civil servant is always asking, I, am I responsible for that?
49:21And I can only say, it's also not the foreign office, but the cooperation between India and,
49:30and Germany and Europe is so good.
49:33So, it includes all kinds of aspects.
49:35So, uh, in this context, um, we can go forward.
49:40Maybe one, one last word on, on, on, on, on, on, on bricks.
49:44Of course, we are watching how bricks is developing.
49:46And, uh, we also understand bricks as a reaction of, uh, and on the old system.
49:55And, uh, actually, for us, it's a good competition, um, to have another organization, as long as this organization remains
50:06peaceful and, uh, um, works with, um, with, with, with normal standards and normal instruments.
50:13And so far, um, for us, it's also a, um, a, a, a mirror how to develop on, on, on,
50:21on the G7 agenda or the, uh, EU agenda.
50:25So, in this context, uh, bricks for us is, um, a competition partner.
50:32Thank you, uh, before, before we conclude, time is up, uh, actually, I do want to recognize my long-time
50:43friend, Samir Saran, from the Observer Research Foundation.
50:47They've been a wonderful partner in preparing, uh, in preparing all of this and to identify Indian speakers and, and
50:55participants.
50:56Welcome, uh, Samir.
50:58Um, finally, uh, finally, uh, Mr. Minister, Your Excellency, uh, goes without saying that you have, after this wonderful performance,
51:13a standing invitation to the Munich Security Conference.
51:16We hope very much you will show up again in Munich next February.
51:20Um, by that time, there should be, uh, replacing me, uh, a double, uh, uh, double-headed leadership of the
51:31Munich Security Conference.
51:32We recently announced that Jens Stoltenberg, whom you know well from Norway, and, uh, my colleague, our colleague from the
51:41German, uh, Diplomatic Service, Helga Schmid,
51:44who served as, uh, as, as Secretary General of the OSCE, uh, et cetera, earlier, they will, uh, be taking
51:54over as, uh, the two chair, man and woman, uh, uh, early next year.
52:01So, uh, please, uh, please do note the moment in your calendar, February in Munich.
52:08Thank you very much for, for joining us here and spending so much time, uh, explaining Indian policies.
52:17And thank you all for your active participation.
52:20Thanks, and let's now go to the coffee break.
52:23Thank you, Bernard.
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