Beyond the C-suite: Who trade associations need to reach next

Name: Beyond the C-suite: Who trade associations need to reach next
Uploaded: 2026-10-13T08:00:00+00:00
Duration: 37 min 52 s
Channel: HousingWire

00:00I'm Clayton Collins, the CEO at Housing Wire, and I am stealing the mic today to host this episode of

00:06Powerhouse to talk about a trend that we've seen emerging across the housing landscape.

00:11So the Mortgage Bankers Association has a emerging initiative to better serve and reach loan originators.

00:18On the other side of the industry, the National Association of Realtors, who has historically represented agents, is really expanding

00:25the tent to reach out and engage brokers.

00:30Today, we invited Paul Gigliotti, the CEO of the California NBA, to talk about this trend that we both noticed.

00:37We're also going to go into some of the state, national, and local initiatives that the California NBA is focused

00:43on and some of the hot-button issues that I see here from my seat leading Housing Wire.

00:49Please enjoy this episode with Paul Gigliotti.

01:02All right.

01:03Once again, I've strong-armed the mic away from your esteemed Powerhouse host, Zebulon Lowe, and I'm back.

01:09Clayton Collins, CEO of Housing Wire.

01:12Thrilled to talk with you today, Paul, about a trend that I think we both see emerging in our industry.

01:17But first, good morning.

01:19Good morning, sir.

01:20Thank you for having me.

01:22And I'm really excited for this conversation.

01:24It spun out of, I believe, a LinkedIn post, right?

01:28And we started chatting and decided to bring it live.

01:32Yeah, it's fun.

01:33I mean, I don't know.

01:34There's places to test ideas.

01:36And obviously, we saw each other last week at the Housing Wire Mortgage Banking Summit.

01:40We're both going to be hopping on planes shortly to head to Chicago for the National Mortgage Bankers Association event.

01:46But LinkedIn does let you test out ideas, and sometimes they stick a little bit.

01:52So one of the themes that I've seen emerging is with our trade associations.

01:59So we're heading to Chicago.

02:01I know there's a session on Monday with our friends Dave Savage and Kristen Messerly, with David Uppen from the

02:08NBA,

02:08talking about their initiatives of better representing, engaging, educating, and forming the loan originator.

02:15And so I'm excited for that.

02:18There's a lot happening there.

02:19But a few weeks ago, I was in Nashville at the Next Home Broker event.

02:26And Special Advisor to the National Association of Realtors, Sherry Chris, was talking on stage about NAR's effort to better

02:34engage the real estate broker.

02:37And if you know the background, NAR has historically represented the agent, and their membership base is direct with the

02:44agent versus through the brokerage and down into the organization.

02:47So we kind of see this trend emerging in both sides of our industry, MBA reaching from the corporates down

02:56into the producer base,

02:59and NAR kind of going the opposite direction from the producers, the agents, and trying to better engage the brokers.

03:06I just think it's a fascinating trend that's happening at the same time.

03:09And it sounds like it's something you've observed as well, Paul.

03:11Yeah, we've observed it.

03:13And, you know, I want to go back to that trend because it is fascinating.

03:16When you look at – and from my perspective, Clayton, when you look at the regulatory landscape, right, what's happening

03:24from a regulatory and legislative initiatives,

03:28whether it's federal or state, at the end of the day, we're looking at those initiatives to better our position,

03:34to better ourselves.

03:35And it's about educating yourselves.

03:37So who better to educate than those that are bringing the products to market, that are touching the consumer, right?

03:46You know, I can't tell you how many lenders – I've gone, lender members, Kind Lending, APM,

03:53and had conversations with the production team to talk about how, you know, certain legislative initiatives will affect their business,

04:03or to educate them on legislative initiatives so they can carry that forward to the consumer.

04:09That level of engagement, from my perspective, really empowers, you know, production teams to carry that forward.

04:18Does that make sense?

04:19No, it makes perfect sense.

04:21I mean, there's so much that we do as an industry that we can talk about all day long up

04:26here in the clouds at the corporate level.

04:28But if we do not get that information into the hands of production teams that work with consumers and referral

04:35partners every single day,

04:39initiatives, progress, products can fall flat on their face.

04:42Yep, yeah.

04:44And I think from that perspective as well, you know, I found this when I was working at Pinnacle as

04:51the COO.

04:52You know, it was clear to me that when you educate the originator and you empower the originator,

05:00they come to the table with more knowledge.

05:02And then, I'm sure you see this, therefore do a better job, right?

05:06You know, they've got the proper tools.

05:09So, it's interesting to see, as you were talking about MBA, you know, really reaching down and talking to production,

05:18talking to originators or branch managers.

05:20I just had a conversation with Alan Fowler, who runs New Mexico's state MBA.

05:27And we were having the same conversation because a lot of their members are branches, right?

05:33Where California MBA, we've got, you know, Guild, Penny Mac, NFM, you know, Avera, right?

05:40You know, the corporate structure.

05:42And we were talking about the difference of how that, you know, what that translates to for benefits of participating

05:51with an association

05:52and what that production team, those individuals, what their needs are as a member.

05:58Yeah.

05:58So, let's talk about more about member needs.

06:01But let's start with the state level.

06:04So, we talked about these two trends that are emerging at the national level, Paul.

06:07Do you see that trend emerging at the state level in your role leading the California Mortgage Bankers Association?

06:14I do.

06:15California MBA, I think, is the right vernacular.

06:17Yeah, yeah, yeah.

06:18California MBA, yep.

06:20But we've been called many things, you know, we'll take what you dish out there, my friend.

06:25So, we've been seeing a lot of, well, you know, what I'd say is I'm paying attention to market conditions,

06:32obviously.

06:32And so, I'm trying to get in front of what do our members need?

06:37And, you know, first and foremost, the cornerstone of the California MBA is to educate legislators on how their proposed

06:44bills affect the industry and ultimately the consumer.

06:48So, we'll always carry that through, always carry that forward, regardless of current economic conditions or market conditions.

06:56But then, you know, we have to look at how do we further support our members?

07:02Right now, lenders are, the support they're looking for is drive down cost, increase production.

07:08How do we do that?

07:09So, we're getting, we're trying to get in front of that as quickly as possible.

07:13And we're having conversations, again, on how understanding the legislative landscape can support production, right?

07:20You're starting to see what's going to happen.

07:23You know what bill's going to pass.

07:25How do we carry that forward from, you know, forward for our members to help spike up production?

07:33Are your members at the lender level or can LOs come and join directly?

07:40Like, is it all, is the relationship with, you know, CMG and New American Funding and they're, because they're corporate

07:45members,

07:45is their LOs are automatically California MBA members or can you come in through different paths?

07:52So, it's the path of corporate, but it goes through the entire organization.

07:55So, your membership dues, CMG, all their originators are members.

08:00And in fact, at our California MBA disaster recovery and rebuild form that we had on Monday,

08:09it seems like it was so long ago, I don't know why.

08:13Well, I know why, but that's a different subject.

08:16You know, we have like, Paul, that was 48 hours ago.

08:19I know, I know.

08:19I've traveled a couple of states since then.

08:21I think that's why my head is confused.

08:24You know, at CMG's table, we had their chief administrative officer, AJ, and then we had three LOs.

08:30One was from Idaho.

08:32One was from California because the one in Idaho specializes in construction loans.

08:37And then we had a California-based originator.

08:39So, and we drive for that at membership is engagement to, you know, compliance, engagement to operators, engagement to production.

08:49That's one differentiating factor about the California MBA.

08:52And we're trying to showcase that to, you know, other state MBAs on how, when you have the entire organization

08:59participate, that's where you can drive for change, I think.

09:04Yeah.

09:04I mean, it was just a week ago, or I guess two weeks ago when we dropped this, that Housing

09:10Wire hosted our mortgage banking summit in Dallas.

09:12And you took the stage with Scott Norman from the Texas MBA, Sarah Wheeler led a conversation about, I think

09:19it was kind of positioned as like a tale of two markets, Texas and in California.

09:25Yeah.

09:25But like a lot of things that you, the two states agree on from a, from a association perspective, is

09:34there collaboration across the states today?

09:38There's, there's some collaboration.

09:40I will, you know, I've seen, you know, connections of calls, connections of sharing ideas.

09:46I think what we need to focus on as states is further collaboration from an advocacy legislative perspective.

09:54Because that's, that's where, from my perspective, that's where it matters.

09:58I mean, it's great to share ideas on how to drive attendance at conferences.

10:01But honestly, Clayton, at the end of the day, you're driving for attendances at conferences so you can share what's

10:08happening from a legislative perspective.

10:11That's, that's our cornerstone.

10:13And so I think, you know, what we really need to focus on as state leaders is bringing together one

10:20voice to, you know, educate our, our legislators.

10:25And that's where, that's part of the reason why California had such a successful legislative year is we, we tap

10:32our members.

10:32You know, we, we had two forbearance bills that we were fighting tooth and nail when we started in January.

10:39The bills popped up in February.

10:42You know, we created two different subcommittees.

10:46And we were meeting twice a week with Penny Mack, Carrington, you know, Dovin Mule to get specifics so we

10:52could educate the lawmakers on how these, these proposed bills just won't work.

10:57And when the states all start to come together and share information on those legislative initiatives, then you build a

11:06stronger case, right?

11:07You, you, you have more data and more information that you can take back to assembly members, Congress members, and

11:14say, this is why that forbearance bill won't work or that AI bill won't work.

11:20We, we've proven it with multiple states.

11:22And that's where I think we can be a little bit more impactful as state leaders.

11:26But in today's construct, there is no formal relationship between the state associations and the national mortgage bankers association or

11:40any formal relationship between the respective states.

11:43So that level of collaboration has to start with relationships and not, not reliant on some type of legal or

11:54structural mechanism in the way that this institution has been developed.

11:59Yeah, exactly.

12:00So as it, to your point, as it stands right now, it's, it's, it's more about collaboration, maybe, maybe peering

12:06on a collective, right?

12:07But, you know, times change things is, is what I would say to that, you know?

12:14And, and as we see in the topic of this conversation, collaboration is really interesting topic of conversation, you know?

12:22And I've been, you know, thinking about our chat for a couple of days and it's interesting to see, you

12:29know, what is the reason behind collaboration, right?

12:31Like what, what is the sole purpose as you starting to see APM and synergy, right?

12:36You know, uh, Mason Mackinac on, but as you're seeing these organizations come together, what is the sole purpose of

12:44collaboration?

12:44And I'd love to hear your thoughts on, on, well, I mean, one thing that stands out to me is

12:49every single lender example that you've used as you, as you talk about the lenders you represent in the California

12:55NBA are national or at least regional players who do business outside of the state where they are, are headquartered.

13:03So like, I think that dynamic has existed for a long time, but as we see consolidation accelerate, um, in,

13:13in a tougher market, right?

13:14Like consolidation due to, to MNA, to walk over and recruiting deals, as well as people closing their doors, because

13:23we, we know there are some lenders that are undercapitalized from a balance sheet perspective.

13:27Um, and they're either going to find a home or they're not, um, we're in a, we're in a consolidating

13:31market, which means by nature, the fragmentation of today's mortgage market is, um, is, is going to be reduced.

13:41And we're going to have more players that operate at a, um, super regional or, or national level in fewer

13:49independent mortgage banks or depositories who operate in a single state or, or small regional footprint, which means the initiatives,

13:59the policies, the, the, the regional cultural considerations, um, are, are, are, are cut to come up a level.

14:08Like we have to start thinking about initiatives that matter equally in, in California and Maryland or Washington state in

14:16Florida.

14:17You can't separate those two things out in a, in a market that is becoming less fragmented every single week.

14:25Yeah.

14:25And so it's interesting as you were talking, you know, I completely agree.

14:31And when you talk about consolidation, I don't know, I have a question for you.

14:36Is it too cheesy of me to put consolidation in the same bucket as collaboration?

14:41Like, is that too warm and fuzzy?

14:43Like our, can they can be the same, right?

14:45Because in that, in the, in the, in the concept of, uh, you know, two organizations coming together, a collaborative

14:56manner could bring out what the one organization had that the other didn't.

15:00Or is that, is that taking it too far?

15:03I mean, I think it depends who you are in, in the market.

15:07Like, I think you could make the case, Paul, that because of consolidation, more collaboration between associations is, is going

15:16to be necessary and will proliferate.

15:19However, um, if you're the leader of a mortgage bank who is not in the position to be an acquirer,

15:28you're not feeling very collaborative at this, at this moment.

15:32Um, or if you're a technology partner who is seeing their, their clients consolidate and that's reducing the tangible addressable

15:43market or the opportunity you have in each of those accounts, you're not feeling very collaborative at this moment.

15:48Right.

15:49So I would say it's probably a different answer depending on who you ask.

15:53Um, however, I mean, maybe collaboration is necessary, but it's, it's tough to be collaborative when you feel, you see

16:02the, like the knife coming out of the sheath and like, you know, someone out, the consolidator has more power.

16:09Um, and, and they will use that as capitalists, commercially viable entities to gain market share, um, improve margins and

16:20be more competitive because they can offer better pricing through, um, through scale.

16:27Ideally, ideally that's how consolidation works.

16:30Right.

16:30Ideally, you know, it's really interesting.

16:32I'm going to, I'm going to veer off subject subject for a hot second.

16:35And I love this conversation.

16:37I'm going to bring in my, the work I did prior to, to coming into the, uh, mortgage industry was

16:44at Cisco systems.

16:44And I worked in their investor relations department, um, and I ran operations.

16:49So I was closely, I was, uh, uh, uh, director of ops in the IR department.

16:53So I was closely related to PR, uh, which was all about acquisition, right?

16:57It wasn't PR like corporate, but when we, when they would acquire a company and why, sometimes the acquisition was

17:04a little bit more of, we're going to come in and save

17:07you because you're about to drown.

17:09Um, and then other times the conversation was, we need that tech, you know, we need that tech.

17:13Let's get married.

17:15You know, either way I saw the, the bringing together and how it benefited Cisco's customer, which is a lot

17:26of people.

17:26Um, and I think that's where I was going with the concept of consolidation.

17:31It hurts or it can hurt.

17:33It's not always, you know, it doesn't always start as, you know, uh, uh, you know, two, two people coming

17:41or two organizations coming together, they get married, but there could be a sense of collaboration.

17:49You know, you know, you had this product suite or you had this, you know, solution.

17:53There's so many types of consolidation.

17:55I mean, I go back to like business school classes on, on mergers and acquisitions.

18:00I mean, like, you know, they all start with talking about vertical integration.

18:03Now in our industry, there's some great examples of that.

18:07I think rocket has probably, um, like been one of the greatest, like vertical integrators of like, uh, with their

18:13acquisitions of, um, of, of, of Redfin.

18:16And Mr. Cooper, like expanding their reach across the, the transaction.

18:21Um, there, there, there's horizontal acquisition.

18:24Uh, I think like real and Remax is a, is a great example of that.

18:28Um, uh, there's consolidation for, for the sake of market share, which in the mortgage industry is meant to translate

18:36to more resources, stronger balance sheet, stronger tech stack, more competitive pricing to, to organically gain market share.

18:45Um, but in, in, in technology, sometimes, uh, M and a can drive pricing power.

18:50So you can drive sharper price or I don't know, you can drive more margin, not, not by reducing prices.

18:57Um, but it, it, it all depends on the operator, the strategy.

19:02Um, and like, I mean, sometimes you see consolidators who can strengthen their balance sheet through deals.

19:07Right.

19:08Other times people take on, uh, in, in a non-sustainable amount of, of debt or, or other type of

19:15operating or technical leverage that, um, puts them in a tough scenario.

19:20So like, it's, you know, it's super hard to say like one type of consolidator looks like, oh, it's honestly

19:27like you've seen one, you've seen one deal.

19:30Like they all have a different flavor.

19:31They do.

19:32You're right.

19:32You're, you're spot on.

19:33You know, I, I just, I think it's, you know, as, as we enter this era, you know, this, uh,

19:39this turn, this time, this cycle, whatever you want to call it, we know what's in front of us and

19:44we know what's going to happen.

19:45Uh, unfortunately, or, you know, fortunately, either way you look at it, we don't know the depths of it quite

19:51yet.

19:52Um, you know, I think everybody's bracing themselves.

19:55And I think that, you know, from, from my perspective, Clayton, the, the, the best thing to do, cause we're

20:01here is to look at how we can support each other.

20:04Um, and, and, and from my perspective, you know, not just running the state association, but from a business perspective,

20:11we look at it as to how, you know, the, I think my angle is supporting.

20:16Support, clap, clap, clap, right.

20:18As opposed to consolidate because somebody is drowning and, and we're just going to, we're going to take you.

20:23But I, from the business perspective, I hear it.

20:26So to bring it back to the mortgage bankers association initiative of better representing loan originators.

20:33I think there is some very inherent logic in that.

20:38Like if you are the trade association for the mortgage industry, uh, you don't only want to represent like the

20:44executives and the corporate players.

20:47You also want to represent the producers.

20:49However, I can also see some inherent conflicts where there may be, um, initiatives or policy that is good for

21:00the lender, but maybe not so favorable for, for the originator.

21:03Like what comes to mind for me is compensation.

21:06Like there's this massive conversation in the industry for, for, for quite a while around, around, around loan originator comp.

21:12I don't necessarily believe that the association needs to take a stance on that, but like lenders want more flexibility

21:19and the ability to evolve their comp models to fit their origination and distribution needs.

21:27Um, originators, like, you know, all like warm blooded people want to maximize their, their earning potential.

21:35Um, like how, how do you think, and you're doing this today representing both, you know, having LOs and corporate

21:42players as members, how do you represent what sometimes may be conflicting priorities?

21:49It's a fine line.

21:51And that's why we immediately go back to our cornerstone, which is, you know, educating lawmakers on how their, you

21:57know, proposed bills to affect the industry.

21:58So we, we don't necessarily take a stance, right?

22:01We don't necessarily voice.

22:04This is right.

22:04This is wrong.

22:06Um, through our education, we can educate on certain things.

22:11You know, we can't educate a certain way.

22:12It is what it is, you know, on the forbearance bill, right?

22:17Um, one of the, uh, assembly members that, uh, the author of a forbearance bill that we were able to

22:22go neutral on the forbearance bill stated automatic, as an example, um, automatic, uh, forbearance for three years on a,

22:32uh, home that's in a disaster relief or disaster area deemed a disaster area in the state of California.

22:38Well, our, our, our educating was, you can't do that because there's, there's language in the note that says one

22:44year.

22:45Yes.

22:45After that, you know, we have to sit down and look at this specific file.

22:49Where are they in the rebuild?

22:50Are they still working?

22:52All they have to apply, right.

22:53For, for, um, a negotiation.

22:56So from our perspective, you know, we would take a bill, if there was a bill that came up in

23:02the state of California about compensation, right?

23:06For loans that close in California, we would educate the assembly member on how that bill affects the industry.

23:13We don't take a, an opinion stance, right?

23:16For our members, we continue to support their growth and the members understanding of that regulation so they can do

23:25what they want internally.

23:26And we're obviously there to support our members, but we don't have an opinion stance on the bill itself per

23:33se externally, or it's not voiced.

23:35That makes sense.

23:37All right.

23:37So I understand the, the focus on policy.

23:42Does the association ever get pulled into commercial issues?

23:46And the one thing that like is top of mind for me is, is EPOs.

23:50That was a big conversation at the, the mortgage banking summit.

23:54I interviewed Mike Cordes on stage and he talked about some of the, the power that they have given their

23:59scale, um, at, you know, essentially not taking, uh, EPOs from their, from their wholesale and correspondent partners.

24:07Um, I can see that being an issue that members may bring up as they come together, um, at, at

24:13your events or, or, or, or, or in board meetings.

24:16Do you ever get pulled into the fray on commercial issues that may not actually be like regulation and policy

24:22issues?

24:23As a, as an association, like the association stance?

24:27No, we don't really get pulled into those conversations.

24:29Um, and again, it's because we want to remain neutral, I guess is what I would say, right?

24:36Like we, you know, we, we go back to, you know, sticking to, to what we know now, outside of

24:43our regulation and legislative initiatives, we're about connecting.

24:47We're about networking.

24:47We're about providing solve.

24:49Uh, and we do that for our lender members and our associate members who are our solution providers, right?

24:54So we'll educate them on what we're hearing, you know, we've got multitude of forums where we can have conversations,

25:01dialogue around, you know, providing information, um, you know, debt, data, stats, uh, brainstorm around EPOs, webinars, whatever the case

25:11may be.

25:12But that's just us allow, or I shouldn't say just us, but that's us allowing our members to communicate and,

25:20and have, and, and strategize around certain topics.

25:23But again, we stay out of really having a stance or an opinion on it, uh, cause that's not our,

25:29our position.

25:30Yeah, that's it.

25:32Yeah, that's, that's, that seems to make perfect sense.

25:33I mean, so in that scenario, you're creating the form for members to communicate, uh, hopefully have productive, productive commercial

25:41conversations to develop business protocols.

25:45That isn't, isn't your lane to define what those are, but if you put the right people together, they may

25:49end up in a, uh, uh, mutually advantageous place.

25:53Yeah.

25:53So the, the, the forum, uh, as you were talking about, so it, it w it would be moderated by

25:59the California MBA.

25:59And we'd make sure, you know, just like we did and the, uh, disaster relief, uh, forum, right.

26:06Um, that, that was, that was tough because we are hearing there's a, there's a gap in getting permits and

26:12the permit office was right next to me for the city and the County.

26:16You know, so as soon as I brought up that talking point, everybody's head turned to them and said, yeah,

26:21you know, when this whole thing started, we are 400 days out.

26:24And then we're starting to work on it.

26:26It's 90 days out.

26:27Is that still good enough?

26:28Right.

26:28And so you, you, you can moderate those conversations to ensure that what's the root of the problem and let's

26:35get to the root of the problem.

26:36And sometimes it does lead back to our purpose.

26:39So in this case, it did lead back to a proposed bill at the federal level, uh, Senator, uh, shelf

26:46had, and that was extending, um, federal funds to, uh, extend, um, working hours, uh, so that permit offices could

26:57turn permits quicker.

26:58Uh, to go outside of the, uh, to go outside of the nine to five and, and, and, you know,

27:01to be able to provide overtime or larger staff when there's a disaster.

27:06So we can tie it back to, uh, so we can tie it back to, uh, potential proposed bills that

27:13might be out there, kind of dig them up and, and, and, and, you know, bring them to the, the

27:18surface to support that initiative.

27:21Um, but to me, that's the association kind of moderating, as you were saying, that conversation, what's best for the

27:29industry.

27:29Yeah.

27:31Yeah.

27:31Okay.

27:31So I want to run into another like hot button issue that I think sits at the inch at the

27:35center of like commercial priorities and, um, government priorities.

27:41So major government priority around, uh, employment.

27:46Like we're clearly watching jobs numbers very closely, state, local, national policymakers and politicians are, are talking about, um, the

27:56risk of AI on, on, on, on employment in our country.

28:01Um, we're watching the jobs numbers closely from an inflation and, um, and fed funds policy perspective, uh, lenders, a

28:10lot of great people employed in this industry, but we're fighting against pretty high cost of production.

28:15Everyone's hunting for, for, for, for margin.

28:17Um, and they're looking at AI as a way to originate loans more profitably.

28:24Is there any like conversation between policymakers that are curious about how a mortgage industry is implementing or plans to

28:32implement AI and how it will impact, uh, headcount?

28:35Is that a conversation happening on the lender side?

28:38I'm just kind of curious of that, like that push and pull of, Hey, we want more efficiency, but Hey,

28:43government also wants us to employ people.

28:45Um, I haven't necessarily heard the conversation per se, uh, from, uh, an assembly member.

28:52I did have a great opportunity to meet, um, prospect, uh, governor, uh, Becerra's in Sacramento, um, you know, who's,

29:03who's running a great campaign and running a, a, a, a great race.

29:07Uh, and that was our, he came over to our table and that was the topic of conversation.

29:15Um, and so it was a, it was a conversation based off of what are you hearing in your industry?

29:21What are you seeing in your industry?

29:23And, um, um, you know, at our table, there was a, there was an accounting firm and myself and our

29:29lobbyist from, uh, KP public affairs.

29:32And at the time, my response, um, was, you know, the industry is really looking to deploy AI for speed

29:40and accuracy.

29:41Uh, we don't want to necessarily disrupt, um, human in the loop.

29:45Um, and what we are seeing our lenders looking for is scalability, both up and down, which is a very

29:53true statement.

29:54You know, the cycle is what breaks, you know, lenders, right.

29:59When we, you know, I was doing a flashback of when I bought my, you know, recent home and the

30:04interest rate was at 2.75 and man, it took forever to get that loan closed because everybody was refined.

30:10Right. So we had a scalability, you're like, you're like the meme, Paul, the guy who's bragging about his 2

30:15.75% interest rate.

30:16Yeah. I don't want to be that guy, but the conversation is scalability is both up and down and we

30:21need to be proactive and, and prepare for, you know, when, when the market gets hot.

30:26Um, and so I, I feel that lenders are focused on utilizing AI, uh, for the right reasons for, you

30:37know, to, to get to the Salva speed and accuracy.

30:40Um, and I also think that I'm hearing great conversations that are focused on when you talk about the human

30:49interaction, we want to keep it real.

30:52And we want to ensure that that human is touching the consumer and touching the real estate agent, right?

30:58Like their, their function and job of creating relationships.

31:02Um, we have not heard yet from a formal stance that, you know, we, we don't want AI to be

31:10deployed, uh, you know, to, to, to affect job numbers.

31:14Like, you know, keep, keep as many people employed as possible.

31:17Right.

31:18We've heard from a bias perspective, um, you know, was one of our AI bills that we had 10, 18,

31:25AB 10, 18, uh, and it had to do with underwriting, um, you know, and, and it had to do

31:31with, um, utilization of AI, you know, producing, um, an approval or not.

31:38And, and, and, and, and, and why, um, so that's what we've touched on as a state.

31:43I would assume that next year, uh, we'll be focused on affordability and AI function.

31:50Um, and I'm assuming to your point that we're going to see some economic, uh, conversation, you know, and how

31:57AI is affecting, um, the economy in the state of California.

32:02Go a little deeper on affordability.

32:05What's from a policy perspective, from a lobbying perspective, from a member representation perspective, what can we actually influence on

32:14affordability?

32:15That's a great question.

32:17Um, and I would look at it more as a broader question because I think California is an anomaly with

32:23affordability because quite honestly, affordability in California really don't connect, right?

32:28There's not too much in California that's affordable.

32:31Um, I think that what we need to do first and foremost, uh, and we're hearing a lot of conversation

32:37around this more on the commercial side.

32:39So California MBA has both residential and commercial.

32:42Um, we're looking at, or we're hearing a lot of conversation around what is, what is allowable to build in

32:50certain areas within county lines or city lines.

32:54You know, you know, what, what can be built, what can be deemed a dwelling, what type of structure is

32:59that?

33:00So it's more along the lines of, um, you know, the type of homes that are being created, uh, and

33:08where they're being created in the state of California to allow for home affordability.

33:13My jaded take on like zoning as an affordability mechanism is the timeframe it takes to go through a zoning

33:24change and then, uh, entitle land and actually start building something does not align with the timeframe of election cycles.

33:34And I get very jaded that, um, it doesn't matter what we're talking about state city or national, uh, that

33:42like term limits don't align with the time it takes for that to pay off.

33:46So voters don't give, um, policymakers credit for the initiatives that they start until they start to see that impact

33:56their personal wallets.

33:58Yep.

33:58I totally agree with that.

34:00Uh, another, I'm not advocating for longer term limits either.

34:03I'm just saying, no, no, we would never want to say that.

34:06No.

34:06Yeah.

34:08Um, okay.

34:09I heard it, you know, it was really interesting.

34:11I heard I was in the, uh, at the, uh, DC gala.

34:14I was invited as a guest through, uh, ice, uh, uh, Courtney, our pal invited me to go.

34:20And it was a really interesting, uh, set of conversations around affordability.

34:25And it brought me back to, you know, California's affordability challenges.

34:30Um, and really any other state.

34:32And I'm, I'm going to assume that Texas is going to start, uh, start to see it as well

34:36is, you know, it's almost two talk tracks, right?

34:38When you talk about affordability, you know, we can look at individuals that, you know,

34:43are currently in a home and they're, they, they, they're having a hard time accessing their

34:48equity, uh, because it would, you know, if they were to try to do that now, it'd make

34:52their payment unaffordable.

34:54Um, and, and as inflation is increasing costs of everything are increasing.

34:59And so, you know, individuals are looking for, uh, you know, additional, um, cash, you

35:05know, to, to live, to maintain.

35:07And then we have this other conversation around affordability.

35:10And this is where I think California is a little stuck where, you know, there's, there's

35:14housing that's affordable, but it's not where, where resources are or, or that individual's

35:20resource is school, uh, you know, people to watch kids when, you know, you're working

35:25and you have to dual income.

35:27And so it, it, there's like this, this, this really interesting, um, piece of the puzzle

35:34that from a personal perspective, I look at the state of California and say, how can we

35:40solve for that?

35:40You know, how can you ensure that where is affordable, that there are also resources for

35:47that individual to be able to, to, to live and do the things that they want to do in

35:51their, their daily life.

35:53I find that topic of conversation somewhat interesting as well.

35:57Yeah, that's really interesting.

35:58All right, Paul.

35:59So this episode is going to drop, uh, during the mortgage bankers association annual conference

36:04when we're up in Chicago.

36:05Um, so our guests hopefully listening, um, they're gonna wake up early on, on, on Tuesday

36:09and listen to this episode before they go to the, uh, before they go to the sessions.

36:13That's, um, but, uh, from your perspective, what are you going to do?

36:17What does success look like for you in Chicago?

36:19Like, what do you need to achieve?

36:20Who do you need to talk to?

36:21Like, how are you using your time?

36:22You know, my time, uh, Clayton, thanks for the question.

36:25It's a great question.

36:25My time is going to be focused on how membership matters.

36:28And, you know, when we look at our industry, there are constants in our industry.

36:33We talk about consumer sentiment.

36:35We talk about current economic conditions.

36:37We talk about market conditions.

36:39We also need to start having a conversation about regulation and legislation because that's a

36:44constant and what's interesting out of all four of us, less of it, right?

36:49Yeah.

36:50Well, but here's the thing though.

36:51What's interesting about it, Clayton, is that you can change.

36:56If you advocate properly, you can change that fourth one.

36:59You can change the regulatory landscape with, uh, advocacy.

37:03And I go back to, you know, Deep Haven was founded based off the, the legislative landscape

37:09changing.

37:10You know, when Dodd-Frank came to play, they sat back and said, here's an opportunity.

37:14So within legislation and advocacy, you can find opportunities to, to scale a business.

37:20And that, that's going to be the focus of my conversation.

37:24All right.

37:25Boom.

37:25Paul Gliotti, CEO of the California association of, uh, oh my God, I almost said California

37:31association of realtors.

37:32I'm looking at the wrong note sheet here.

37:34Paul, California MBA.

37:35We may or may not edit that out.

37:37Maybe we'll leave it in the blooper.

37:38I think you can leave it.

37:39It's all good.

37:40I'll see you in Chicago.

37:41Thanks for your time, Clayton.

Beyond the C-suite: Who trade associations need to reach next

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