- 2 days ago
POSTGAME REACTION: Guardians drop Game 4, Rays even up ALCS 2-2 w/ 7-3 win; Parker Messick in Game 5
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00:00Tampa Bay Rays win game four, seven to three.
00:06So the series now moves to a two, two time at the very least,
00:10we are going to have a game in Tampa. At the very least,
00:13we will have a game six Monday night.
00:16So prepare yourself for that one. And I, all right, away we go.
00:22I want to take your calls to one six, four, seven, four, double Oh 92.
00:26On a night where you really couldn't string a ton of hits together.
00:30Somehow, some way the guardians end up with eight hits tonight.
00:33I don't know if it felt like that at any point,
00:35but you had one run to kick off the game.
00:38You had chased the water with a great at bat into an RBI single.
00:42And then all of a sudden they just were completely shut down by Nick Martinez
00:48and four and a third scoreless innings from Nick Martinez that allowed the
00:52Rays to come back guardians any time that they went to the bullpen other than
00:57the Foster Griffin move,
00:59which even he allows the one run to the Rays in relief in the third inning.
01:05Other than that, I mean, it was,
01:07it was moves that you understood throughout the game,
01:10but moves that backfired in your face, Foster Griffin, Daniel Espino,
01:14Tim Heron, Slade Ciccone all pitched tonight.
01:16They all allowed a run.
01:18And then Matt Festa, obviously with the final two run homer allowed to Yandy Diaz,
01:22which put the exclamation point on the win for the Rays.
01:26I want to know how you're feeling heading into a game five tomorrow night.
01:32You know, for sure that you're going back to Tampa without the off day,
01:36obviously with the rain out yesterday, that is mitigated.
01:39So the,
01:40the stretch continues and you got to wind up now for at the very least three games
01:46in three days and you got to win the next two,
01:48or you have a game seven Tuesday night,
01:51also in Tampa Bay.
01:52And then it is the doomsday scenario that we were all talking about yesterday of
01:56four games in four straight days.
01:59I want to come on and be like, I'm mad.
02:01I'm, I'm angry at all this different stuff.
02:04I'm frustrated that they lost.
02:06Absolutely.
02:07And I,
02:07there was plenty of opportunities today for them to win this game.
02:11There were plenty of opportunities to where if Steven vote brings the right guy
02:16in and he successfully gets the guys out.
02:18Great.
02:18We're talking about a three,
02:19one series win and we're popping champagne and we're getting ready to go for
02:23hopefully a gentleman sweep Sunday night.
02:25I want to be yelling and screaming.
02:29I'm just not because you still have three games to figure this thing out.
02:33And I don't want to be like over reactionary about a loss where just at the
02:38end of the day, your offense didn't hit against Nick Martinez.
02:41Well, guess what?
02:41Nick Martinez ain't pitching for the rest of the game.
02:43Every single bullpen option that you went to just kind of blew up in your face.
02:47And frankly,
02:48if this isn't a situation where you have the potential for four games in four
02:52straight days, I don't know if Slate's a Coney's pitching.
02:54I don't know if Matt Festa's pitching.
02:56I think that again, we said last segment,
02:59I think that for the first time this post season,
03:01Steven vote was managing for an entire seven game series as opposed to damn the
03:06torpedoes we're going to win today.
03:07So we can get into every single bullpen decision,
03:10every single pinch hit decision that they had.
03:12Obviously late in the game,
03:14Angel Martinez comes in for Petey Halpin does not well gets a hit,
03:17but really does nothing.
03:19David Fry comes in for Nathaniel low.
03:21And instead of hitting a ball, 550 feet, you know,
03:24left field foul doesn't do anything ends up striking out there in that
03:27situation.
03:30Moves work at points and sometimes they don't.
03:33And if I were to come on here after every single time,
03:36a bullpen decision didn't work,
03:38I think it'd be ridiculously hack of me as a radio host.
03:41I think it'd be ridiculously over reactionary over everything because I,
03:46I don't want to just armchair quarterback,
03:48everything.
03:49I still feel like for the most part,
03:51Steven vote is B is out managing Kevin cash in this series.
03:55Maybe today he overthought things a little bit,
03:57but the levers that he had been pulling all post season,
04:00especially over these last,
04:01we'll call them six games,
04:02the divisional series.
04:03And then the first three of the championship series,
04:06every single lever that he's been pulling has been working tonight.
04:10It didn't.
04:10And then the brakes.
04:11And I think that's kind of my takeaway from tonight is it sucks that you're down
04:15to,
04:15it sucks that you're tied two to two,
04:17but at the end of the day,
04:18it is that you're just tied two to two.
04:20You still have one more game at home.
04:22And then you still have Parker Messick and Gavin Williams set up in at least
04:26two of the next three games.
04:27I don't know what the pitching lineup is going to be,
04:29but at the very least you have them for two of the next three.
04:32I got to be confident in that.
04:33You got to drew Rasmussen who the,
04:35who the rays are going to start at least I think tomorrow night.
04:39I don't know what the deal is.
04:40They have not announced the starters for either for other team tomorrow.
04:43Yeah.
04:44I love it.
04:44So we have to wait until like two hours before the game to figure out who the
04:46hell they're going to start.
04:47You got to drew Rasmussen,
04:49despite the fact that he could win the AL side younger,
04:51at least finish second behind cam Schlittler.
04:54You didn't get to Freddie Peralta,
04:56but then in that game,
04:57you got to the bullpen a little bit.
04:58So I don't just take away from this game that all the confidence that you
05:02built up over the last three games is gone and wiped away.
05:05I think that you should still feel confident heading into tomorrow night.
05:09I think I agree with you.
05:11And I think the guardians are set up really well considering the way that
05:14Steven vote managed his bullpen,
05:17right?
05:17You didn't throw Sabrowski.
05:19You didn't throw a hundred Gattis and you did not throw Kate Smith and
05:22you're going to,
05:23and you should have relatively everyone available.
05:26You should be able to throw her in.
05:27If you want the hope is that mess.
05:29It can just give you five.
05:31Like,
05:31that's what you have to hope right now.
05:33Like,
05:33because Foster Griffin,
05:35I mean,
05:35he did what he needed to do.
05:36I might've started him and put Armstrong later on,
05:40but it's,
05:40it's rough.
05:41I just,
05:42I just have to go back to the second bringing in Saccone because if you,
05:46you,
05:46I brought,
05:46you brought him in and I said,
05:48are you conceding the game?
05:50Because you bring him in,
05:51he gives up a couple of runs.
05:52They were down five to one at that point.
05:55And then the guardians made it interesting in the net in the ensuing half
05:58inning.
05:58They made it five to three.
05:59I'm like,
05:59okay,
06:00well it could have been three,
06:01two.
06:01If you had brought in a guy like Sabrowski,
06:03cause it was the seventh inning.
06:04That is Sabrowski's inning.
06:05If you had brought him in,
06:08maybe the guardians won three,
06:09two.
06:09Cause then at that point you're not,
06:11you're bringing in Gattis in the eighth and you're,
06:13and you're not pitching Matt Festa in for an inning plus.
06:16So it's,
06:17it's hard to rationalize,
06:19right?
06:19Like,
06:19I don't think that Steven vote went out there and saying,
06:21okay,
06:21we're going to concede this game because we're down X amount of runs.
06:25This team doesn't,
06:25this team has a knack for coming back,
06:27but they don't have a knack for scoring runs.
06:29So it's,
06:30it's the duality of man where like,
06:32did he make the correct decisions for the way that this game finished up?
06:36Yes,
06:37absolutely.
06:37You didn't use your,
06:38your top three bullets in that bullpen.
06:40But if he had used one of those bullets,
06:43I have to wonder if the outcome of the game is different,
06:45especially considering at the point when you were down seven,
06:49three,
06:49it's a lot easier to come back mentally.
06:52Yes,
06:52obviously you'll,
06:53you have to score three less runs,
06:54but it's a lot easier to come back mentally when you're only down one.
06:59And that's where they could have been had vote brought in,
07:04Sabrowski or brought in Gattis or,
07:05or one of their bullets at that point in the game.
07:08So I can,
07:08I can kind of half agree with you,
07:10but I think if,
07:10if you want to see a situation where again,
07:12he was managing more so for the fact that you had four straight games and four straight days,
07:17or at least the potential for that.
07:18I think the Slate's Cody move is that situation.
07:22I will disagree in the sense that you had.
07:25So at the beginning of that inning,
07:28you had Tim Heron facing Richie Palacios.
07:30You have to trust that Tim Heron is going to get out Richie Palacios.
07:35He doesn't.
07:35He allows a single.
07:36Then you have the option to go to a right-handed hitter for Taylor walls.
07:40And then your one,
07:41two punch in the,
07:42in the top of the order,
07:43which I,
07:44again,
07:44I think where Steven vote has excelled the most in this series,
07:47at least in the pitching levers is attacking that one,
07:50two,
07:50three punch or one through four.
07:53Basically.
07:53I know Cam and arrow got dropped down to five.
07:55Cause he's just had a horrific series so far,
07:57but that top of the lineup that is just hurt you left and right.
08:01Yandy Diaz,
08:02even Jonathan Aranda,
08:04who has sucked up to this point,
08:05but had some really,
08:06really good hits today.
08:07And then obviously you're scared as hell as of junior Cam and arrow because
08:11of the prolific hitter that he hits.
08:14I don't know if Eric Sebrowski against three straight righties like that.
08:17And a couple of switch hitters.
08:19I know Aranda is in there a little bit,
08:20but I don't think that a lefty like Sebrowski,
08:23despite the fact that it might be his inning is the correct approach for that.
08:26Now,
08:27if you were to say that that's the perfect time for a hundred Gattis to come
08:30in,
08:30who am I to say that that's wrong?
08:31Because you,
08:32you at least get the righty righty matchup and I'm fine with that.
08:35But how often is Slate Ciccone pitched against these guys?
08:39So maybe they saw something that there was a little more familiarity with the
08:43raised hitters than they were comfortable with,
08:45with Gattis.
08:46Then maybe we could go to Slate Ciccone instead.
08:49Yeah.
08:49And that's,
08:49that's the other thing I wanted to bring up.
08:50I said this before,
08:51like when was the last time Slate Ciccone was in a leverage spot?
08:55I understand coming in when it was three to one at that point,
08:59like you're coming or two to one,
09:00actually you're coming in and you're,
09:02and you're,
09:03you're not used to that.
09:05Right?
09:05Like he,
09:06he pitched very sparingly.
09:08He was injured at the end of the regular season.
09:09He came in and what's the baseball's version of garbage time in game two.
09:13Yeah.
09:14Well,
09:14and even before the injury,
09:15after,
09:15after they acquired a foster Griffin,
09:18they sent him to the bullpen.
09:19Yeah.
09:20So it's very difficult for this guy to come in.
09:23I mean,
09:23he's,
09:23he's amped up.
09:24It's the playoffs,
09:25right?
09:25He he's,
09:25it's not lost on him,
09:27but when you have a guy that's unfamiliar with these spots,
09:31it's very hard to go through.
09:33And it ended up,
09:34I don't want to say it worked out.
09:35I can't say it worked out because they still lost,
09:37but it ended up being beneficial for your team because now you,
09:41I'm not gonna say you're going to be favored,
09:43but you are set up better than the rays right now.
09:45Moving forward.
09:45Yeah.
09:46Yeah.
09:46I mean,
09:46that's a great point.
09:47Like Tim Heron pitch.
09:48So obviously he,
09:49he might still be available tomorrow afternoon,
09:52but you don't go with Sebrowski.
09:55You don't go with Gattis.
09:56Cade Smith for the first time this post season gets a night off.
10:00And even if you want to go Cantillo in a bulk roll,
10:03like,
10:03again,
10:03we still don't know what the approach is going to be pitching wise for
10:06tomorrow night's game.
10:07If you still want to go Cantillo for the bulk roll,
10:10he,
10:10he only pitched the last couple outs of the ninth inning.
10:13So it's not like you overextended him,
10:15but again,
10:16it's not,
10:16it wasn't just the Slates coding thing.
10:18And I know that that was obviously the tipping point in the game that sent
10:21it from,
10:21like you mentioned a two,
10:22one lead.
10:23So now you're up,
10:24you're down five to one.
10:25And it kind of feels like the game's over at that point.
10:27Earlier in the game,
10:28Daniel Espino comes in,
10:29in a spot where,
10:31and I try and like stream a conscious,
10:32write down what I'm feeling in the,
10:34in the moment.
10:35And it wasn't just that,
10:36that I agreed with bringing Daniel Espino in at the point that they did.
10:39I got a couple of texts from people that I respect baseball wise.
10:42It said,
10:42this is the right situation to bring Espino in against guys that he's faced in
10:46the top of the lineup consistently.
10:48And he's gotten out consistently.
10:50And obviously,
10:50so he sets down in the bottom of the fifth.
10:53The issue is that he comes back up in the sixth inning and he hasn't had
10:58situations like that,
10:59where I guess they call them up and downs,
11:01where you bring the last guy out,
11:03get them out.
11:03And then you go sit down and you bring him back up for the next inning.
11:06That's putting a rookie that hasn't pitched that much over the last four
11:09years in a situation that he hasn't been in.
11:12But again,
11:12it's like the basis of it.
11:13I couldn't fault vote for putting Espino in when he did.
11:17It's just Espino didn't execute.
11:19And maybe vote needed to have a quicker hook when he saw that the velo was a
11:23little bit down.
11:24Even that hit that he gave up to junior Camonero that gave the raise a lead.
11:28It was four miles an hour slower than a,
11:32basically the same pitch that he threw to Camonero earlier in the series.
11:35And Camonero struck out on it.
11:37So I,
11:38I mean,
11:38yeah,
11:39we can armchair quarterback here and say that you shouldn't have brought him
11:42out for the sixth inning.
11:43You shouldn't have brought Slate Zaccone out for whatever inning he was in.
11:46And I'm not saying that you are,
11:47but I know that a lot of people are pissed off about it.
11:49It's just,
11:49you got it.
11:50You trust your guys in the situations that you have put them in all post
11:54season while also trying to figure out how the hell you navigate this
11:58bullpen where you might have all,
12:00you know,
12:00you,
12:00you might lose the game and you're going back down to Tampa Bay without a travel
12:03day.
12:04I think it was a really hard like thing for Steven vote to navigate.
12:09And again,
12:09that's why you're paid the big bucks.
12:10And that's why we bring you back year after year and you win managers of the
12:13year.
12:14But I mean,
12:15I can't fault him like up and down.
12:17I can't rip him this entire evening for,
12:20you know,
12:20go into the guys in the spots that he did.
12:22No,
12:22you can't like,
12:23you'll get some people,
12:24angry people on,
12:25on,
12:25on X and Twitter,
12:26whatever you want to call it.
12:27You'll get some angry people sent and saying,
12:29Oh,
12:29send him to Seattle.
12:30Right.
12:30Cause that's been the running joke ever since we saw that little,
12:33that list of the Mariners top managerial candidates,
12:36which is not going to happen.
12:37There's no way that you're not bringing Steven vote back for the next multiple
12:40years,
12:40winning the division every single year.
12:42And again,
12:42like you can,
12:43you can disagree with his decisions like I do,
12:45but I think you have,
12:46you have to respect what he did as a manager,
12:48considering right.
12:49You're managing for managing for the entire series.
12:52He,
12:52he did the right thing.
12:54He did the right thing.
12:55You have your bullets.
12:56I just,
12:57I just,
12:58you would have liked to go up three,
13:00one.
13:00I would have played more for game four and maybe seeing if you can get game
13:04five is like ice cream with sprinkles on top at that point.
13:08So it could be,
13:10because again,
13:10going in at three,
13:11one.
13:11Okay.
13:11Now I have three more cracks at it to get that one last game,
13:14but now it's a best of three and you don't have home field advantage
13:17anymore.
13:18That's your,
13:18that's the disadvantage.
13:20The guardians.
13:21I don't want to,
13:22I can't sit here and say the guardians have been better than the rays
13:25over the course of the post season.
13:26When the rays go out there and they sweep the Yankees and you make them
13:28look bad and you're pit and you throw them.
13:30What,
13:31what did,
13:31what did,
13:31what did Rasmussen have in,
13:33in game one of that series?
13:34Eight,
13:34no hit innings,
13:35basically like going against Cam Schlittler.
13:37Like that was,
13:38that was an outstanding display of achievement and the guardians,
13:42no one's given him the chance.
13:43This is Cleveland against the world right now.
13:44No one,
13:45no one's given the guardians a chance heading into this series.
13:47You have a little bit more luck and this city was buzzing.
13:51I am nervous because the rays are so good.
13:55Like the game five,
13:56maybe you weren't,
13:57maybe you weren't as white knuckle and everyone's white knuckle in the
14:00playoffs,
14:01but you weren't as white knuckled for this game.
14:03But game five,
14:04that heart rate is going to be up,
14:06up,
14:06up.
14:06Yeah.
14:07And so I,
14:07and I understand what you're talking about where like you,
14:09I,
14:10I did,
14:10I wanted vote and the team to approach this game kind of like there,
14:17there was no tomorrow because again,
14:19you go up three to one and you give yourself every option to just take the
14:24series on Sunday and have all the entire week off until Friday for game one of
14:29the world series and you mitigate any sort of travel day.
14:33I was hoping that that was the approach in it for,
14:36for at least the first like four or five innings,
14:39it did seem like that was kind of how they were going to go about it.
14:42And it seemed like,
14:43okay,
14:44once we get off of foster and then Daniel Spino,
14:47we're going to go to,
14:48you know,
14:48the big heavy hitters and maybe even Kate Smith has to pitch for six,
14:52five out,
14:53something like that.
14:54But I mean,
14:55the hitting just was not there.
14:56They got woefully shut down by Nick Martinez and I like,
15:00yeah,
15:01every time that this team doesn't hit consistently like that.
15:03And again,
15:04they end the game with eight hits.
15:05So it's not like as bad as it's been in the past,
15:08but every time there's bad hitting nights,
15:10you know,
15:10you kind of go back to,
15:11ah,
15:11this team can't hit.
15:12We've seen it all season,
15:13blah,
15:13blah,
15:13blah.
15:15You had a good picture there and,
15:17and you just didn't adjust throughout the game.
15:19Also real quick from Tim sevens,
15:21MLB.com.
15:22Steven vote has announced Parker Messick as the game five starter tomorrow
15:26afternoon.
15:27So if you had your tickets to Friday night's game,
15:30now it's not an elimination game,
15:32or it's not a game where you could clinch the,
15:34the pennant,
15:35but you will be seeing Parker Messick.
15:37I think that's the right move.
15:38At least.
15:39He's just got to come through for you,
15:41right?
15:41He's got to be Parker Messick.
15:43Like I was at game one of the DS and he was shaken after that Murakami Homer,
15:47right?
15:47Like this guy has been great for you all year.
15:50And he,
15:50and I think it was a mistake to leave him off the post-season roster a season
15:54ago.
15:55He could have gotten a little bit,
15:56he could have gotten his feet wet more because I feel like a rookie pitcher is
16:00like a,
16:00like a rookie quarterback in the playoffs.
16:01Same,
16:02same deal where it's like,
16:03you don't necessarily trust them because they haven't been there before.
16:05Yeah.
16:05Messick had an elite season.
16:07He's going to be top five in Cy Young voting.
16:09It's a different animal in the playoffs.
16:10And it just shows you,
16:12despite Messick having a better season overall than Gavin Williams,
16:15it shows you that Gavin Williams is a different type of pitcher.
16:18Now I would like to see Gavin Williams as crazy as his sound strike out less
16:22batters and pitch to contact a little bit further into the game.
16:26And,
16:26and,
16:26and he did do that for the most part in game,
16:28in game three,
16:29because he got taken out with 70 pitches after five innings,
16:31which I was irate about,
16:33but it ended up working.
16:35It's the game.
16:36I don't want to say game five completely hinges on Messick because one of the
16:40best quotes I ever heard from a pitcher is pitchers don't win you games.
16:43They keep you in the game because they can't hit for the most part,
16:45unless you're Otani who isn't pitching right now.
16:47Like they need Mark Parker Messick to go out there and give you,
16:52I mean,
16:52I can't even say six innings.
16:54I can't say six innings at this point consciously with,
16:56as an intelligent baseball fan,
16:57like you need five innings of two run ball from Parker Messick and you need to
17:01get lucky.
17:02We talked about this during the break,
17:03right?
17:03PD Halpin Homer,
17:04and you cannot count on that every night,
17:06despite how well he has played this post season.
17:08And,
17:09and,
17:09and Steven Vogt showed he is out of short leash.
17:11There is an up in the air question of whether or not PD Halpin starts
17:14tomorrow and I think he still should,
17:16even though on hell Martinez got a base hit today that literally hit off where
17:20the bat tape was.
17:21Yeah.
17:21So I do want to get into a little bit.
17:23We'll be on until a little after midnight tonight.
17:26So as you guys are driving home,
17:28make sure you're calling in and listening a little after midnight.
17:31We'll stay on for you guys.
17:32Do want to get into what you feel like the right formula is for the
17:35guardians to pull off two wins in the next four games here,
17:39three games.
17:40Jeez.
17:40Uh,
17:40so,
17:42but you know,
17:43I,
17:43as you mentioned,
17:44the,
17:44the last time that Parker Messick was out was the first time that I felt
17:47like maybe he's getting to kind of the end of his leash.
17:50Now,
17:51also we saw that a little bit from Gavin Williams and he still was baller.
17:54And then they pulled him early and they made the right move doing that.
17:57Uh,
17:58and I know we got to run,
17:59but like,
17:59if you can get,
18:00like you mentioned that five innings and none of the runs that he allowed
18:04were earned.
18:05And they were all the from errors where there's Jose Ramirez or whoever it
18:10was.
18:10So he still kept you in that game.
18:13All right.
18:14Two,
18:14one,
18:14six,
18:14four,
18:15seven,
18:15four,
18:15double Oh 92 guardians losers tonight,
18:17seven to three against the Tampa Bay Rays.
18:19Parker Messick is your game five starter.
18:22Steven boat.
18:22Just announced that.
18:23Yeah.