- 4 hours ago
In this special edition of Battle Cry, host Gaurav Sawant explores the operational prowess of the BrahMos supersonic cruise missile following Operation Sindoor and evaluates India's evolving defence strategy. BrahMos CEO Dr. Jaiteerth Joshi discusses the weapon's tri-service readiness, precision strikes, stealth capabilities, and the drive towards complete indigenisation with assembly lines active in Nagpur, Pilani, and Lucknow. DG ITBP Shatrujeet Kapoor highlights ongoing friction along the Line of Actual Control in Arunachal Pradesh, stressing that modern drone technology allows smaller forces to effectively challenge larger conventional adversaries. Panellists Lieutenant General P.R. Shankar, Sandeep Unnithan, and Manjeet Singh Negi examine emerging non-contact warfare trends from the Russia-Ukraine and Iran-US conflicts. They debate the urgent necessity of establishing a dedicated drone, rocket, artillery, and missile force, leveraging existing artillery divisions and domestic manufacturing to plug squadron voids and safeguard national security.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Hello and welcome to a special edition of Battle Cry, I'm Gaurav Savant.
00:04The name BrahMos, the supersonic cruise missile, it instills fear in the hearts and mind of the enemy.
00:12And not just because they've heard of the capabilities of the supersonic cruise missile,
00:17but also because during Operation Sindur, Pakistan has seen and suffered the damage
00:23caused by the pinpoint accuracy of the BrahMos missile,
00:27hitting multiple Pakistan Air Force bases, command and control centers,
00:32and of course the headquarters of terror at Bahawalpur.
00:36On this special broadcast, we will talk about BrahMos new generation.
00:41The effort to completely indigenize the missile,
00:45the lighter, deadlier and extended range of the BrahMos missile
00:50and the capabilities what it can do in the next conflict.
00:53Dr. Jaiti Joshi, CEO of BrahMos, he gives us never-before-known details of the lethality of the new BrahMos
01:00and of course the BrahMos ecosystem that's coming up in different parts of the country
01:04and interest that various countries across the world have shown in this missile.
01:10Not because of the name, but because BrahMos is now a proven system,
01:16a battle-proven system during Operation Sindur.
01:19We'll also raise a bigger question.
01:21Given the changing nature of warfare across the world from Russia-Ukraine war to US-Iran conflict
01:28and the lessons drawn from the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict on the use of unmanned systems,
01:35they're changing the nature of conflict completely.
01:38Where are we?
01:39India is expanding our drone manufacturing,
01:42both unmanned aerial systems and underwater unmanned systems.
01:46But should India now actively consider the formation of a drone, missile and rocket force?
01:55We debate that.
01:56But first, Manjeet Singh Negi with this exclusive conversation with CEO BrahMos, Dr. Jaiti Joshi.
02:02Do you want to tell us about this, which is because of the operation of Sindur's operation of a drone
02:08in order to work with a big threat?
02:16BrahMos is the only one missile missile that is all through the super sonic speed.
02:22So, the operation of Sindur's operation of the try services were ready with the BrahMos missile.
02:26This is our armed forces and our country's
02:31that all of us are going to be able to work with a network-centric warfare, capability, and versatility of
02:41our three missiles.
02:43We are using this missile as well as our three missiles that are using this missile.
02:45This means that the universal missiles that are used in the land, aircraft, or ship platform,
02:59other ship platform and mining targets
03:03to neutralize.
03:04This is a deterrent,
03:07which is a net security provider
03:11that is being operated.
03:14If you look at the door,
03:16how has it been used?
03:20How many numbers have happened?
03:21How many numbers have happened?
03:22See, Brahmos missile range, accuracy,
03:29stealth is very important.
03:32Brahmos missile is slung onto the Sukhoi 30 aircraft
03:36and from there it is fired.
03:38In fact,
03:39Brahmos missile technology is so robust
03:43and also being a JV company,
03:45the maximum indigenization content
03:47we have brought into this missile
03:49and various technologies
03:51we have tried to make Brahmos fully
03:54indigenous.
03:56Is it time for India to have a drone,
03:59rocket and missile force
04:00to deter adversaries to the north
04:02and the enemy to the west?
04:04Before I bring in our guests,
04:06I also want you to listen in
04:07to Shatrujit Kapoor,
04:09the Director General
04:10of the Indo-Tiberian Border Police
04:12on the current situation
04:13along the line of actual control.
04:16We've known about the situation in Ladakh,
04:18here about the situation in Arunachal Pradesh.
04:21Now,
04:22in Arunachal Pradesh,
04:25there was a possibility
04:25that there was a place
04:26that there was a place
04:27that there was a job
04:28that was going on.
04:29There are the teams
04:32that we have done
04:35very good work.
04:36This was also a new one.
04:38In China,
04:40we may have to do
04:42some of the things
04:43that we have to do
04:44in China.
04:44Now,
04:47we may have to do
04:48some of the things
04:49that we have to do
05:08in China.
05:14So you've heard
05:15what the Director General
05:16of Indo-Tiberian Border Police
05:18had to say
05:18on the current friction
05:19along the LAC,
05:20and the need to have
05:21more drones
05:22to deter
05:23more powerful adversaries
05:25like the Russia-Ukraine conflict,
05:28and of course,
05:29the Iran-US conflict.
05:31Let me bring into this conversation
05:32Lieutenant General PR Shankar,
05:34former Director General
05:35of Artillery,
05:37someone who's worked
05:38very closely
05:39on the BrahMos
05:40Supersonic Hoos Missile project,
05:42and was at IIT Madras
05:45working on New Age technology
05:47in warfare.
05:49Also with me are
05:49two senior journalists
05:51Sandeep Unnithan
05:52and Manjeet Singh Negi.
05:54Welcome, gentlemen.
05:55Sandeep,
05:56the BrahMos played a stellar role
05:58during Operation Sindhuur,
05:59and now,
06:00BrahMos NG
06:01will give the Air Force
06:03longer reach,
06:04more lethality,
06:05and a lighter missile,
06:07Sandeep,
06:07will ensure
06:08that fighter jets
06:09can have
06:10more than just one missile
06:12like currently
06:13one BrahMos
06:14on a Sukhoi 30.
06:16Absolutely,
06:18Gaurav,
06:18the BrahMos missile
06:20came of age
06:20during Operation Sindhuur,
06:22and all of the investments
06:23that we have made
06:24in this technology
06:25over two decades
06:26finally came to fruition
06:28during Operation Sindhuur.
06:29It is a missile
06:30that was simply unstoppable.
06:31all the targets
06:33that it acquired
06:34were hit,
06:35destroyed,
06:35and it left Pakistan
06:37literally,
06:37you know,
06:38scrambling for
06:40international partners
06:41and conflict termination,
06:43which is why they made
06:44that phone call
06:45on the 10th of May.
06:46This is a missile system
06:48that they had no answer for.
06:49Therefore,
06:49it shattered through
06:51all of their
06:51Chinese-supplied
06:53ground-based
06:54air defenses,
06:55and the new iterations
06:57of the missile,
06:58Gaurav,
06:58they have been in the works
06:59for some time,
07:00but if they come in the next
07:01two or three years,
07:02as Dr. Jaithir Joshi told
07:05us in India today,
07:06the fact that
07:07you have the BrahMos NG,
07:09which is lighter,
07:10which means that a Sukhoi 30
07:11can carry three missiles
07:13instead of one,
07:15and you're looking at
07:16a BrahMos 2,
07:17which can go to a range
07:18of over 1500 kilometers.
07:19That is more than
07:20three times
07:21the striking distance
07:24of the current generation
07:26of BrahMos missiles.
07:27So, Manjit Negi's
07:29exclusive Gaurav
07:30is something that could
07:31make the Pakistanis
07:33across the border
07:34very worried indeed.
07:36Oh, absolutely.
07:37In fact, not just Pakistanis.
07:39Should China also be concerned?
07:40Because as of now,
07:42there is nothing that
07:43anyone in the world has
07:44that can stop
07:45a supersonic cruise missile
07:46coming virtually three times
07:48the speed of sound.
07:49But Manjit,
07:49what are you picking up
07:51on how soon
07:52will the new BrahMos
07:55and the total indigenization,
07:56what is the timeline
07:58for the total indigenization
08:00of the BrahMos missile?
08:05If you see that,
08:07the BrahMos missile is
08:08the requirement for the
08:10forces and export,
08:11if you see that,
08:12the BrahMos missile is
08:14the requirement for the
08:14if you see that,
08:15the BrahMos plan,
08:15the time,
08:16the Nakhpur,
08:17the Pilani and
08:17the Lakhnau,
08:18the three assembly lines
08:19have been put in the
08:20assembly line,
08:20so it shows
08:21what the requirements
08:23are,
08:23what the requirements
08:24and the other way,
08:25in my interview,
08:26Jayathir Joshi said,
08:28that his goal is
08:29that his cost
08:31is reduced
08:32on the other,
08:34that the indigenization
08:35is the make-in-india
08:38and the entire
08:39ecosystem
08:40of 300
08:41and the entire
08:42industry
08:42has been part of this
08:46in the past 7 years.
08:48The goal is
08:48that it will make-in-india
08:51and the cost
08:52will reduce
08:53its cost.
08:54The third assembly line
08:55in Lakhnau
08:56where the BrahMos missile
08:58has started
08:58the production
08:58has been shown
08:59the requirements
09:00and the question
09:03that the BrahMos
09:04was integrated
09:04into the ship
09:04and then
09:06the land version
09:07and then
09:08the Khoi 30 MKI
09:09which was used
09:10in the middle of the
09:12BrahMos.
09:13But now,
09:14this is the thing
09:15that our
09:16aircraft,
09:18the Rafale
09:18or LCA
09:19or LCA
09:20or LCA
09:21which is the lighter version
09:23of the BrahMos NG
09:25is so much fit
09:26and how the conflict
09:28is used
09:28that BrahMos
09:29is used.
09:30This is a great thing.
09:31You are telling me
09:32that I am
09:32Risa.
09:33General Shankar,
09:35India is modernizing
09:36as quickly
09:37perhaps as possible
09:39is what we are told
09:40but given the current situation
09:42along the LAC,
09:44is there an apprehension
09:45that it could escalate
09:47and God forbid
09:48we could have another
09:49Galwan type situation?
09:50What is your reading
09:51of what DG ITBP said?
09:54Look,
09:55at the outset,
09:55thanks a lot
09:56for calling me on the show.
09:59I'd like to highlight
10:00that what the DG ITBP has said.
10:04He said about a situation
10:05which has been ongoing
10:06for almost four to five months now.
10:09I don't think it's so serious
10:11because if the situation
10:13was so serious
10:14it should have come through
10:15the army sources.
10:16The DG ITBP has mentioned it.
10:19Right.
10:20Well,
10:20he's highlighted it
10:21that there's a face-off ongoing
10:23and such face-offs keep ongoing
10:27throughout the entire border
10:28at some place or the other.
10:30Maybe at that particular place
10:31which he mentioned,
10:32it's a little more
10:34and I don't think
10:35we should be worried about it.
10:36The fact that we are there
10:37is itself okay.
10:40But will it escalate tomorrow
10:41into something like Galwan?
10:42Who knows?
10:43We don't know
10:44how the geopolitical situation
10:45will deteriorate
10:47and the India-China situation
10:48will deteriorate.
10:50But personally,
10:50if you ask me,
10:51that's it.
10:52I don't think anything
10:53will happen.
10:54I don't think China
10:55is in a state
10:56to get into
10:57any kind of a fracas
10:58along the border
11:00at this point of time,
11:02especially from now
11:03to the next year.
11:04Why?
11:04I'll tell you why.
11:05Because from next week onwards
11:07is there,
11:08you know,
11:09important fifth plenum
11:10which is starting.
11:11And that is to set
11:12a whole lot of
11:13their leadership equations
11:15into place.
11:17And for the next year
11:18is there,
11:19you know,
11:1921st party congress.
11:21And in this period,
11:23they won't like
11:24to pick up a fight
11:25with India.
11:25Let me be very clear
11:27about it.
11:27I don't think so,
11:28unless they have
11:29a different design.
11:30So, to that extent,
11:31I'm not too worried
11:33about what's happening
11:34on the LSE.
11:35I'm sure
11:35if the IPVP
11:36can handle it,
11:38the army can definitely
11:39handle it.
11:39Let me bring in,
11:41Manjit.
11:41Manjit,
11:41Rakshamantaralek,
11:42Sutr,
11:43Arunachal Pradesh
11:44की स्थिती
11:44के बारे में
11:44क्या बता रहे हैं
11:45और खास्तोर पर ऐसी
11:46परिस्थिती में
11:47जब DG ITBP
11:48ने कहा की
11:51स्थिती तनाफपूर्ण है
11:52या स्थिती वाब बनी हुई है
11:54friction की
11:54और conventional sense की
11:56अगर बात करें
11:57तो चाइना की शक्ती
11:58हम मारे पास जादा है
11:59हमको और ड्रोन्स की आवशक्ता
12:01वैसे भी है
12:02इरान युद को देखते हुए
12:03और रूस यूक्रेन युद को देखते हुए
12:07गरब जब चीन के राश्ट्रपती शीर जिंपूरी इंडिया के दौरे पर तो उस दौरान कुछ लोकल चैनल पर कुछ तरह
12:14से सोचल मीडिया में
12:15वो वीडियो भी कुछ वीडियो आये थे जिसको लेकर सेना ने उस दौरान भी सितंबर अक्तूबर में इस बात को
12:20साफ किया था कि
12:21जो बाउंडरी को लेकर दोनों देखों के बीच में परसप्शन का मामला है जिसको लेकर इस तरह की घटनाए होती
12:27हैं
12:31और उनको लेकर जो ग्राउंड फोर्स हैं जो ब्रिगेड लेबर की बात करें या उसके उपर कॉर कमांडर लेबल की
12:37बात करें
12:37वहाँ पर तुरंट उसका समाधान भी निकला गया है और लड़ाक के बाद अरुनाचल जो कि दोनों देशों के बीच
12:45में कई सालों से एक तरह से विवात का विशय रहा है खासतोर से चीन की तरफ से
12:50तो वहाँ पर प्रस्रेप्शन की वज़़ सेबुड हो इसको लेकर घटना हुई है और यह जानकारी से
13:12बनने के बाद वह इस्टिंट क्मांड के दरें पर गयते हैं उन्हेंग से जाइजा लिया था
13:16Serious General Rajamani
13:18He said that he also
13:20Was in command
13:21So I think that
13:24Sena and Raksha Maitreya
13:25Are the details of this
13:26And the situation
13:27Is also kept on that
13:29Sandeep, given the situation
13:31Is likely to remain
13:32Cold peace between India and China
13:36And to deter Pakistan
13:38Again, post-op Sindur
13:40The relationship has been tense
13:42Does India
13:44Need a rocket force
13:47Rocket missile and drone force
13:48To deal with the emerging situation
13:50Looking at what's happening
13:52Across the world
13:53Russia, Ukraine, Israel
13:54Iran, US
13:56And our neighborhood
13:58Absolutely, Gaurav
13:59You know, you've entered
14:02An era of non-contact kinetic warfare
14:04And we've seen that
14:05During Operation Sindur
14:07We saw that during the
14:0840-day conflict between
14:10Iran and the United States
14:12Ukraine and Russia
14:13Russia have been attacking each other
14:15Over the last couple of months
14:16At extended ranges
14:173,000 kilometers
14:18Is the outer range
14:20Of the Ukrainian drones
14:21That they're targeting
14:23The Russian Federation with
14:24Russia is also striking back, Gaurav
14:26If we are not
14:27Cognizant of these
14:29Technological changes
14:30In the world
14:30Then I'm afraid
14:31We are trying to fight
14:32The last war
14:33All over again
14:34And keeping that in mind
14:37A drone, rocket and artillery force
14:39Is absolutely critical for India
14:41Given the fact that
14:43We have large voids
14:45In our force structures
14:46We have not got
14:46Our full fighter squadrons yet
14:49The sanctioned strength
14:50Of over 40 squadrons
14:52There are some gaps
14:53In our land forces capabilities
14:55As well
14:56And if you ask
14:57General Shankar
14:58Gaurav
14:59He will tell you
15:00That we already have
15:01A rocket force in place
15:02Given the artillery divisions
15:04That the Indian army
15:05Has raised over the
15:06Last couple of years
15:07So that expertise
15:08Already exists
15:09It's only a matter of
15:10Scaling it up
15:11You can call it
15:12Whatever you like
15:13But as long as
15:14You have the capability
15:14It is a force
15:15That you can roll out
15:16Very quickly
15:17You know
15:18So from Grad-21
15:20To the Pinaka systems
15:21To longer range missiles
15:24And rockets
15:25General Shankar
15:26Your reading
15:27Of the requirement
15:28Of more firepower
15:30And fire and forget
15:31Kind of firepower
15:33Longer range
15:34More lethality
15:35As Sandeep was pointing out
15:37Future warfare
15:38Likely to be more
15:40Non-contact warfare
15:41So precision missile
15:42Longer range
15:43Swarm drone
15:44To strike across
15:44Enemy VAVPs
15:46Both across
15:47Northern and western borders
15:48Is that the requirement sir?
15:50Yes
15:50There is a
15:51Clear requirement
15:52And in fact
15:53I have discussed this
15:54With Sandeep separately
15:56That's the first point
15:57The second point is
15:59If you see
15:59The Russia-Ukraine war
16:01Attacks
16:02And you know
16:02Non-contact attacks
16:04Have been carried out
16:05Over 1000
16:061500 kilometers
16:07Very effectively
16:08And that is
16:09The way forward
16:10And the fact
16:12That you need
16:13A force
16:14Which can handle
16:15Drones
16:15Rockets
16:16Artillery
16:16And missiles
16:17And even
16:18Artillery's range
16:19Is getting extended
16:20The conventional artillery
16:21Today everyone
16:22Talks of a DRAM force
16:24D-R-A-M
16:25Drones, rocket, artillery
16:27And missile force
16:27You need it
16:28Do we have it?
16:30We have it
16:31But just having
16:33These rockets
16:33And missiles
16:34Is not the issue
16:35You need a structure
16:36For it
16:36You need a structure
16:38For command and control
16:39You need a structure
16:41For deployment
16:42You need a structure
16:43For sustainment
16:44And logistics
16:45You also need a structure
16:46For ISR
16:48Because you need
16:48To have a command
16:49And control system
16:50You need to complete
16:51The kill chain
16:52You know
16:52You need a satellite
16:53Communication
16:53You need ground
16:54Communication
16:55Ground and satellite
16:58Observation
16:58Target fixation
17:00All this you need
17:01And interestingly
17:03We don't need
17:03To invent
17:04The whole wheel
17:05We have something
17:06Called the
17:07Artillery division
17:08Which has all this
17:09And in fact
17:10For me
17:11It's quite surprising
17:12That we are still
17:12Debating of the
17:13Requirement of a force
17:15When we already
17:16Have one
17:16When you have one
17:18Okay
17:19That might not
17:20Exactly fit the bill
17:21But 90 to
17:2295% of the
17:24Thing which we have
17:25Already
17:25And I can vouch it
17:27Because I have
17:27Commanded an artillery
17:28Div
17:28And I commanded
17:29An artillery div
17:30Way back in
17:312010 to 2012
17:34Consisting of
17:35Pinaka's grad
17:36Extended grad
17:37And Brahmos
17:38And you know
17:40Smurch
17:40At that time
17:41With a troop of
17:42Herons
17:43So I know
17:44What I am
17:44Talking
17:45So do we
17:46Have that
17:47Entire kill
17:48Chain
17:48Let's say
17:49Across our
17:50Western border
17:50And across
17:51Our northern
17:52Borders
17:52Along India
17:53Tibet
17:53LAC
17:54We have the
17:56Capability to
17:56Put it on
17:57Ground there
17:58We have the
17:59Structures
17:59We already
17:59Have three
18:00Artillery
18:00Divisions
18:01You need to
18:02Repurpose it
18:03For other
18:03Places and
18:04Expand the
18:04Number of
18:05Artillery
18:05Divisions
18:05We are
18:06There
18:06Without
18:07Much of
18:07A sweat
18:07Let me
18:08Tell you
18:08This
18:08Okay
18:09It's only
18:10That
18:10India
18:11Has to
18:11Get over
18:12Its own
18:12Internal
18:13Mental
18:13Blocks
18:14To come
18:15To that
18:15Level
18:16That's the
18:16First thing
18:17The second
18:18Thing is
18:18The importance
18:19Is just not
18:20Having range
18:20And all
18:21This
18:21The fact
18:22Which
18:23Andeep I think
18:23Also brought
18:24Thought out
18:24That
18:25A number
18:26Of
18:26Scordants
18:27Are not
18:28Going to
18:28Increase
18:28They are
18:29Going to
18:29Decrease
18:29Your
18:30Effectiveness
18:30Is going
18:31To decrease
18:31Now
18:32What is
18:32The
18:32Alternative
18:33To
18:34You know
18:35Air
18:36Power
18:36The
18:36Alternative
18:37To air
18:37Power
18:37Is
18:38Missile
18:38Power
18:38The
18:39Alternative
18:39To air
18:40Power
18:40Is
18:40Rocket
18:41And
18:41Drone
18:41And
18:42Artillery
18:42Power
18:42There is
18:43No other
18:44Choice
18:44We have
18:45No
18:46But
18:46That's
18:46A very
18:46Important
18:46Point
18:47You are
18:47Making
18:47But
18:47Manjeet
18:48Manjeet
18:49Army
18:50Or
18:50Air
18:51Can I
18:52Finish
18:52This
18:52Yes
18:53Yes
18:54General
18:54Shankar
18:55You have
18:56To
18:56Understand
18:57That
18:57Look
18:57Why
18:58Am I
18:58Saying
18:58This
18:58Just
18:59Look
18:59At
18:59The
18:59Iran
19:00War
19:00Iran
19:01Doesn't
19:01Have
19:01Any
19:01Air
19:02Force
19:02Worth
19:03Mentioning
19:03But
19:04With
19:04The
19:05Help
19:05Of
19:05Rockets
19:06And
19:06Drones
19:06Only
19:07They
19:08Brought
19:08A
19:08Super
19:09Power
19:09To
19:09Stand
19:10Still
19:10And
19:11Same
19:11Thing
19:12The
19:12Houthis
19:12Are
19:13Doing
19:13Houthis
19:13Also
19:14Don't
19:14Have
19:14Any
19:14Air
19:14Force
19:15Saudis
19:15Have
19:16All
19:16The
19:16Air
19:16Forces
19:17All
19:18The
19:18Modern
19:18Air
19:19But
19:22I
19:23Think
19:23We
19:23Should
19:23Take
19:23Lessons
19:24From
19:24Both
19:24These
19:25And
19:26Ensure
19:26That
19:27Our
19:27Rocket
19:28Force
19:28You
19:29Know
19:31Really
19:31Comes
19:31To
19:32Shape
19:32And
19:33Build
19:33On
19:33What
19:33You
19:33Have
19:34Rather
19:34Than
19:34Reinvent
19:35The
19:35Whole
19:35Wheel
19:35Very
19:36Interesting
19:37Point
19:37You
19:37Make
19:37Sir
19:39Manjeet
19:40Lekin
19:41Raksha
19:41Mantrali
19:41Me
19:42Yeh
19:42Soch
19:42Hai
19:43Ki
19:43Jab
19:43Tak
19:44Fifth
19:44Generation
19:44Fighter
19:45Jet
19:45Nahi
19:45Ata
19:46And
19:46Us
19:46Ane
19:46Me
19:46Kafi
19:48Samaya
19:48B
19:48Lag
19:48Sakta
19:49Hai
19:49Homko
19:50Or
19:51Rocket
19:51Lembii
19:52Duri
19:52Tak
19:52Mar
19:52Karni
19:53Drone
19:54In
19:55K
19:55Awe
19:55Shaktah
19:55Ho
19:56Ghi
19:56Taki
19:57Dushman
19:57Homari
19:58Tرف
19:58Aag
19:59Aaghe
19:59Baj
19:59Na
19:59K
20:00Haas
20:00Na
20:00K
20:00K
20:18Chahe
20:20Chahe
20:22He
20:24Chahe
20:25Chahe
20:28Chahe
20:28Chahe
20:37Chahe
20:45Chahe
20:47foreign
21:20This is a matter of fact, Sandeep, the paucity of a fifth generation fighter jet coming into our system and
21:27the time lag,
21:28this drone force, it can play a very critical role.
21:33When we talk about a missile force and a drone force, how geared up is the Indian domestic drone manufacturing
21:39ecosystem,
21:40you know, from propulsion to firepower to guidance system, to have non-Chinese components and to be able to do
21:48what Ukraine and Iran have been able to do?
21:52Well, Gaurab, you know, the Indian military has ordered drones on a record level.
21:58I mean, you're talking of potential orders worth 10 to 15 billion dollars over the next couple of years.
22:04Now, these are a lot of drones. They're for reconnaissance, they're for, you know, loitering munitions, all of that.
22:11This is based on the lessons from Operation Sindur.
22:15But now what is happening is that every force, Gaurab, is buying drones, you know, in their own silos.
22:21There is no standardization of protocols.
22:24There is no, you know, the production line that will produce them at scale of the kind that we are
22:33seeing in the United States, in Iran, all over the world, and the Russian Federation.
22:37That kind of standardization isn't happening.
22:39We're not producing them at scale.
22:41What we're doing is we're, you know, acquiring them in small penny packets.
22:46And, you know, we're looking at situations that happened a couple of years back when the same three services went
22:52to the same Israeli company and they were buying the same drones, often with different frequencies.
22:57So there are multiple issues there of interoperability, of creating that kill chain that General Shankar was mentioning.
23:04There are a lot of loopholes even now.
23:06What we're looking at is a mass buying of drones with not enough thought given to creating that entire kill
23:12chain, creating that sensory loop, standardizing a lot of protocols, ensuring that there is some kind of an air traffic
23:20control when drones go up, when there's fighting.
23:23You know, we saw during Operation Sindur where one core commander told me that at one point he had 3
23:28,000, 4,000, you know, drones up in the air and they had no idea about whose drone was flying
23:33where.
23:34So all of these things have to be done, Gaurav, the easiest thing to do is to place the orders.
23:39The tougher part is to actually put in that whole process, that command and control system.
23:44You know, and especially at a time, Sandeep, and General Shankar, I want to bring you in, at a time
23:48when the technology is still evolving, would standardization be possible when technology continues to evolve?
23:55Or do we now need to go in with a Mark 1, Mark 2 kind of a system?
24:00You know, like the Shahid drones and Russians were able to put the jet engine and America kind of reverse
24:07engineered that.
24:08Is that the kind of technology that we need to just keep modernizing, keep so that we are ahead of
24:13the curve?
24:14Where do you think we stand right now?
24:16Look, let me tell you, having worked in this field after retirement and I've spent 10 years in IIT doing
24:21only this, propulsion, we are completely indigenous.
24:25We have everything we need, even for most of the things, we have everything.
24:29You need to put all these in a mission mode and ensure that you get everything.
24:34The problem today is we are trying to procure.
24:37We are not trying to invent.
24:38We are not trying to design our own stuff.
24:41So, you have to have faith in your own system.
24:44Unfortunately, here, our DRDL or the DRDO has failed us in all our efforts for the past 15, 20 years.
24:52So, it's time now for us to get away from the beaten track and put our faith in startups, put
24:59our faith in our IITs who have these capabilities and do things on a mission mode.
25:04Please understand, the IGMDP, which was put on a mission mode 30, 40 years back in the 80s, has borne
25:11fruit for us today in the form of the plethora of missiles which you have.
25:15There is no technology which we don't have.
25:18It is what we lack is the capability of putting it into a mission mode.
25:22And for this, you know, we just have all the three services have to sit together with the defense ministry
25:28and work it out.
25:30So, I think that's the way forward.
25:32One more point I want to make, which is very important.
25:35It's okay to say that we want to fire all these missiles across our borders and all that.
25:39But there's a new form of warfare which has come out.
25:42I call it the choke point warfare, sea denial and all that.
25:45See what's happened in straight and foremost.
25:47See what's happened in the Red Sea.
25:49That's being controlled not by fighters and all.
25:51It's being controlled by drones, rockets, artillery and missiles.
25:55Even in our context, where you're going to put everything in Galatia Bay and all that or this kind of
26:02missiles, long-range missiles like Brahmos and all that,
26:05you can control the entire Malakka Strait and all the sloths and the thing.
26:10That's a very important point you make, sir.
26:13Very, very important point.
26:14And that is why, you know, that Galatia Bay, India has to put more fighter jets, more missiles, more navy,
26:22more weapons and systems there.
26:2430 seconds, General Shankar, to complete your point, sir.
26:2730 seconds.
26:27See, the point is that, look, you are constrained by the fact that you don't have enough aircraft.
26:32You and ships don't come overnight.
26:34But what can come overnight or at very fast pace is ground-based rockets and missiles and artillery and drones.
26:44And that is something which you can go ahead of the curve.
26:47And that puts you ahead of the curve.
26:50It has, as you very rightly pointed out, with the integrated missile technology program, you know, the Agni Prithvi Akash
26:57Nag Trishul and the other missiles that we now have.
27:00That's a very, very significant point you're making.
27:03And perhaps the government will focus more on drones, rockets, missiles and artillery in mission mode, as General Shankar, Sandeep
27:11and Manjeet pointed out.
27:12To my guests, many thanks for joining me.
27:14That is all I have for you on this special edition of Battle Cry.
27:18Many thanks for watching.
27:19News and updates continue on India Today.
27:21Stay with us.
27:21We'll see you next time.