00:00Welcome on Ashley Bashtock of Cleveland.com and the orange and brown talk podcast.
00:04Ashley, welcome to the show.
00:06Thanks for having me guys.
00:07It was Todd.
00:09Okay.
00:09We've got a little bit of a subdued Munkin man today and I left wanting more.
00:15Oh, well, Nick, I think you're thinking about this wrong.
00:18Like I, I actually don't mind this more subdued Todd Munkin heading into the Steelers game.
00:26I mean, I know it's not as entertaining for us to talk about, but when you're talking
00:31about trying to go into a place and win a game, when you haven't won a game there since 2003
00:38in the regular season, uh, I think it's fine to be toned down going into it.
00:43You don't want to give the Steelers any more motivation or bullets and board material.
00:48Um, quite honestly, I think they already have some because of, uh, the things Jared
00:54Burst said, you know, Cam Hayward on the Rich Eisen show, I believe it was yesterday was,
00:58was talking about Jared Burst, uh, essentially saying there were some dirty things happening
01:03in that week for Thursday night game that the Browns won.
01:07So they already have some of that.
01:09You don't want to give them any more.
01:10You don't want guys to be overhyped going into this game.
01:14And I think this is kind of a little bit of a pattern that we've seen from Todd Munkin
01:17is look, if they win, I think he's going to, uh, be a little bit looser in talking about
01:25this.
01:25The best example of that is week two, they get that win against the bucks and, you
01:30know, he hadn't brought up Mike Tomlin, the former Steeler coaches comments about the Browns
01:35is the Browns echoing that famous Juju Smith Schuster quote.
01:39Uh, and then it came roaring back after they won that game.
01:43And he had the F that quote, Mike drop moment at the podium after that first win this year.
01:49So I don't know, expect a little bit of a spicier Todd on Sunday after the game, if they win.
01:55But I think him being more subdued in a press conference today is, is just, I think the front
02:01facing what they want to portray.
02:03Uh, and I'm sure much more hyped up and getting these guys ready behind the scenes.
02:08I disagree.
02:10Ashley, we read it the same way.
02:12Uh, I also, the only thing that I'll, I'll add on that.
02:15I think you might have a chance of disagreeing with, but maybe not.
02:18Uh, we talked in the first segment about how like the only time, uh, in, in like Todd Munkin
02:23outside of being the head coach and trying to gain any insight into this, uh, this AFC
02:27North rivalry was when he was here under Freddie Kitchens and then Freddie Kitchens after winning
02:31game one of that season against the Steelers came back in game two.
02:35And a couple of nights prior to game two, where the Pittsburgh started a t-shirt and it's
02:39one of like the lasting memories of Freddie Kitchens here and how embarrassing that was
02:43to then go out and lose game two, three days after wearing that shirt.
02:47Yeah.
02:48I mean, that's something that is still talked about.
02:50Right.
02:51And it's kind of wild that that was a one year head coach, but I mean, it was so shocking.
02:56I wasn't even on the beat yet at that point, but obviously just being from Cleveland and
03:01following the Browns, my whole life was very aware that that was going on and, uh, how sort
03:06of outlandish it was.
03:08So yeah, I don't know how much that sort of factors into Todd Munkin's decisions now,
03:13but I do think like everything Todd Munkin does from how he structures his practice, uh, to talking
03:19to us has a purpose during the week.
03:22And I think today was very purposeful, uh, even though it wasn't the most exciting quotes
03:27from him.
03:28Speaking of the word exciting, I I'm very excited about this game on Sunday.
03:33This is probably the earliest in the week that I've been excited about Sunday's game
03:37since probably going back to either Tampa or Jacksonville.
03:41This just, this, this seems to have a lot to it, this game beyond just the, the obvious
03:45Brown Steelers.
03:46How are you, you viewing this game from the Brown side of things heading into the Steelers
03:51game?
03:52Well, I certainly think this game is a big deal.
03:56Like this is the kind of game that you win.
03:58If you're a good football team, that is going to be taken seriously on the national stage,
04:04because, you know, we talked after that Ravens game, even a couple of weeks ago, you know,
04:10I think the Browns still, maybe I haven't looked in the last like couple of days, but after
04:14that Ravens game, I know they still had the lowest odds to win the division.
04:18I mean, people really aren't taking them seriously.
04:20I know I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but, uh, the New York times playoff
04:26predictor, if the Browns would win this game, I know it would jump to, I believe it's like
04:30just over 65% chance to make the playoffs if they win.
04:34And, uh, I actually think that Todd Munkin quote that you did play leading into this
04:39segment sort of sums it up, right?
04:41Like those division records are so important.
04:45The head to head, the head to head tiebreakers, we know, obviously the division records are
04:49the next tiebreaker.
04:51So, uh, there's all these moving pieces and parts, these division games obviously count
04:55for double, but I think like the Browns are in this sort of weird spot right now where
05:00they're five and two.
05:01They have all these weird wins.
05:03They have all the five of their victories have been, you know, from game winning drives
05:08in the last quarter.
05:10And they're still at a point though, where nationally, they're not really in that conversation.
05:14No one's thinking they're going to win the division.
05:16Uh, most people I would get still are not thinking that they are a legitimate playoff team,
05:21but if you win this game on the road in a place that you haven't won in the regular season
05:26since 2003 and you get two wins over the Steelers, that's a big deal.
05:33Like it's, it's a huge deal.
05:34I think for how people will be talking about this team nationally.
05:38And, and look, I think if they lose this game, it's not the end of the world in terms
05:43of like, oh, they're definitely not going to make the playoffs now or anything like that.
05:46But I do think like they would have some more work to do in terms of being in that national
05:51conversation a bit more seriously, as opposed to just like what the expectations are week
05:56to week locally.
05:57Yeah.
05:58For as many people that say that the Browns are a mirage or it's fake and it's not real,
06:02just as many are lining up to say that about the Steelers.
06:04Do you think Pittsburgh's actually good?
06:09That's a funny way to put it because like, I mean, that offense, it seems like from watching
06:14it from afar has looked a bit better than it did maybe their first time out in Cleveland.
06:20Like, I don't, I don't know if they're necessarily as, I don't know.
06:24I think that's probably an interesting way to phrase it, to look at it.
06:29I think it's just taken them a while to get going.
06:32Things were obviously sloppy the last time they were in Cleveland that hang on to win
06:37an international game, which is obviously tough.
06:40I mean, I view it as like this division is still wide open in terms of the Browns having
06:46a chance.
06:46And I think that offense probably still isn't quite humming in Pittsburgh the way they want
06:51it to, quite honestly.
06:53Like you're, you're having issues, a little few issues scoring the ball, especially like
06:57last week.
06:58It's, it's interesting to consider like these two teams might be a lot more similar right
07:04now than people think from a national perspective.
07:08All right, Ashley, how do you expect the Browns to approach the deadline?
07:13Yeah, I mean, I think it's kind of like what we talked about last week, right?
07:17Do you, I think they should go in as buyers and I think like how the Browns always sort
07:22of approach this deadline is like, it's slightly aggressive, right?
07:26Like I wouldn't necessarily expect the blockbusters, but you know, we've talked about these sort of
07:33positions of need.
07:35Like I'm curious how they feel about their depth at running back.
07:38Like, do they think Dylan Sampson can stay healthy?
07:42I wouldn't, I would really like to see them add on the D line, right?
07:46Like that is, I think the area where they've had production, but one, they've had some injuries
07:52there.
07:53Uh, and two, we know they were in the market for a veteran edge rusher in like training
07:59camp in late summer and they ended up with Derek Barnett, but it's still never quite felt
08:04like they got like everything they wanted there.
08:09So especially with Alex Wright being out for the year with that Achilles, like I think edge
08:13rusher would be a good place to look.
08:15Um, I've talked about their linebacker depth.
08:17Like, I think there are just a few holes that they have that you can add some depth to and
08:23maybe get some key pieces.
08:25But, you know, I also think we've never really seen them go after these blockbusters in terms
08:30of giving up a ton of assets.
08:32Like it has to be at the right price.
08:33Like I'm thinking about, you know, the very famous Amari Cooper trade where Andrew Barry
08:38got him for a fifth round pick.
08:40Like I, I wouldn't be opposed to going higher than that necessarily.
08:43We talked about that before.
08:44Like I wouldn't trade one of those first round picks for anyone, but I don't know, maybe
08:49as high as a second round.
08:51Uh, I think there's some holes that you could fill potentially on this roster.
08:56If, if you're in a spot where, Hey, we got a pretty good record and we think the playoffs
09:00are a legit shot.
09:02So if we're thinking buying then does selling and in particular with someone like Jerry Judy,
09:06does it, does, does Judy become untouchable as long as the Browns are in first place?
09:11Yeah.
09:12You know, I, I just don't see them getting rid of Jerry Judy.
09:15Like that's just not the vibe that we're getting.
09:17And, and, you know, I know my colleague Mary Kay Cabot has reported that, that they're not
09:22looking to trade him.
09:23And, you know, I think number one, they're still using him.
09:26And number two, every time they've sort of needed to call on him, he's made big catches
09:31and, and they've been very complimentary of him, but it's not like that feeling where sometimes
09:37you, you get where these teams are over complimentary of someone, right?
09:40Like, I think Jerry Judy has a clear use on this offense.
09:43It's not like he's just sitting on the bench and, and sort of wasting away.
09:48He's made plays when they needed him to, even around these two rookies who have started the
09:53year off, you know, at different sort of levels, Benzel Boston got hotter first, but they both
09:58played well.
09:59So I like, to me, it's like, why would you get rid of Jerry Judy right now when he stepped
10:04in and made some really big plays for you?
10:06I think he, he still has a purpose here.
10:08He still has a fit here.
10:10And I don't think they, they want to part with him.
10:13Ashley Connor or of SI MMQB mentioned one of his 10 dream trades in the NFL.
10:20This deadline was the Browns trading a late round pick mid round pick for a Saints backup,
10:27Spencer Rattler.
10:28And part of his logic is that he thinks the idea of turning to Shador Sanders is a non-starter
10:34for Todd Munkin.
10:35Have you gotten any sense, whether it's from who you talk to over there or just your kind
10:41of interactions with Munkin, that that might be the case?
10:44I mean, I haven't.
10:45I think they really like Shador Sanders still.
10:49Like, I don't think that I've gotten that sense from anything I've seen or anyone I've
10:55talked to.
10:56So, uh, yeah, I mean, I can't really speak to that just from what I have seen, but, you
11:01know, I just know every time we've asked about Shador Sanders and, you know, they, they talk
11:06about him, like he's doing the work.
11:07They talk about him pretty glowingly.
11:10So, yeah, I mean, I, I think that that to me is still my perception of how they like
11:18him and they, I think, you know, want to see maybe what else he can do and how he can
11:22continue
11:23along in his development.
11:25Ashley, great stuff.
11:26Make sure to tell Barry, we said, hi, always appreciate him listening and you have a great
11:30day.
11:31All right.
11:32Thanks guys.
Comments