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Refinery29’s Fashion Features Director, Connie Wang, shares her circuitous path from Minnesota to Manhattan, tracing her love of unconventional style, and how other young women can tap into their roots, not just trends, as a means of inspiration.
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00:01Welcome to Unstyled. I'm your host, Christine Barbrick, co-founder and global editor-in-chief
00:06of Refinery29. Each week, I invite a notable person to come in and talk with us as we explore
00:12the funny, inspiring, sometimes heartbreaking tales of life, work, and love, as told through
00:19the things that we wear. Connie is here today to talk about the uncommon connection we both have
00:31to making style relatable to everyone. Not something to be feared and intimidated into,
00:37but embraced and explored with joy and veracity. Connie is from Minnesota, but she went to school
00:44at UC Berkeley and graduated in just three years. I love that fact about her. I also met Connie when
00:50she was young enough to have a totally different style and vibe than she does today. She was 22
00:55when she arrived in our Refinery29 offices to interview for the associate blog editor role.
01:00She became employee number six, and over the past seven years, she's risen through the ranks to
01:05fashion features director, a role she was, quite honestly, born for. I love Connie's style. I love
01:13her sense of humor, and more specifically, I love her peaceful, wide-eyed way of seeing the world.
01:18She is a Zen master in Uniqlo clothing and ugly shoes. That will make sense later.
01:26Hi, Connie.
01:27Hi, Christine.
01:28Welcome to Unstyled.
01:31I'd love to talk with you first about growing up in Minnesota.
01:35First of all, I feel so lucky to have grown up in Minnesota. All of the rumors that you hear
01:39about
01:39Minnesotans being very nice are very true. I can't remember a single time.
01:43I was bullied, which is so rare and, I think, special, and I'm so privileged to have grown
01:48up in that kind of environment. But that's not to say I didn't feel different. Me and my family
01:53were one of the few Asian families in a predominantly white, very, very white, upper-middle-class
01:59neighborhood in Eden Prairie, Minnesota. I already felt different just walking straight
02:04out of my house knowing that we were the only family on the block who were Asian. When my dad
02:09would
02:09mow the lawn, everyone would slow down, everyone would wave, but we were the Asian family on the
02:14block. And there's nothing I could do to pretend that I wasn't Asian. And so all of the stereotypes
02:19that you get, the non-malicious stereotypes that you get about being Asian were all applied
02:25to me growing up. So there's nothing I could do to try to fit in with everyone else because
02:30I was always going to be the one girl in the class that stood out a little bit.
02:34And you were born in China.
02:35I was born in China. And we moved around a lot when my parents immigrated to America. But we
02:40always moved to very, very white suburban neighborhoods from Nebraska to Alabama to
02:46eventually Minnesota. It's insane. So growing up, I never really considered myself part of a
02:51Chinese community. I always considered myself American or Minnesotan. But I knew that I was
02:56different. And I knew that me wearing Abercrombie clothes or limited to or whatever all the kids
03:03were wearing back then still, I still looked different. And frankly, those clothes were
03:07really expensive. And for my parents who grew up with very, very little, moving to America
03:12where everything was all of a sudden way more expensive. And we were all on a budget. They're
03:16just like, no way we're going to be spending $20 on a t-shirt you're going to grow out of
03:21within
03:21six months. It's outrageous. It's dumb. And there's glitter on it. You can't even wash it
03:25in laundry. So I had to get a little bit creative with hand-me-downs. There was nothing unfair
03:31about it. It was just the way it was. But the great thing about my mom especially was
03:34that she taught me to look through every single item and find the one thing in the rack that
03:39was special because there was always going to be one thing or at least one thing. So
03:43that's the thing I think that Minnesota really taught me that there's always going to be
03:48treasure. It just depends on how willing you are to look for it. I was reading like fashion
03:53blogs that were hosted on Blogspot. I think Susie Bubble was one of the first ones that I read.
03:58It was stuff like Iamfashion.blogspot.com or IamtheAsianLeprechaun.blogspot.com. These
04:06are like Fashion Toast was coming around. Personal style blogs were just starting. But back then,
04:12the majority of blogs that were on the internet were about commentary, like commenting on fashion,
04:16dissecting what are the coolest, newest brands, like what do designer collaborations even mean?
04:22That was what the norm in fashion blogdom was. And so when I started my blog in my parents'
04:28basement in Minnesota, that's what I thought blogs were, talking about fashion rather than
04:33talking about my style. Because frankly, at the time, I just didn't have the capacity to talk
04:37about my style because it was just fun, you know. But I could talk about what Marc Jacobs was doing,
04:44you know, what these new boutiques in Hong Kong and stuff that I've never even heard of. Like I
04:47could comment on, you know, like how we wanted that for Minnesota or, you know, what H&M was,
04:52this Swedish sort of massive retailer that I had never even heard of. And I saw once when I went
04:58to New York on a class trip. So that's what I thought fashion blogging was. And unfortunately,
05:03in the years that followed, it became less and less cool to do that and less people wanted to do
05:09it.
05:09But there are, you know, writers and bloggers who eventually became, you know, powerhouses like
05:14Susie Bubble, Susie Lau, who stuck around. But it was a really fun time on the internet.
05:20You just had your seven-year anniversary at Refinery29. You were employee number six.
05:24Number six. That's right.
05:25And I just remember how different your style was from then until now. And it's been such an honor
05:32to observe you evolving over the last decade. I'd like you to describe your style now.
05:38I would say that I shop smart in that I don't buy very many pieces. And each piece I buy
05:45is a
05:45little bit special. But I dress really lazily. I'm usually wearing just two items in my shoes,
05:51of course. I like the idea of shapes, you know, big exaggerated proportions, menswear. I'm so
05:57fascinated by the way that Japanese women dress. I don't wear a lot of black. And that's a big shift
06:03of mine that's happened in the past 10 years. I feel like black is so obvious for a New Yorker.
06:09And I don't like being obvious. And I shy away from things that are girly and ultra-feminine
06:15and, you know, roughly and make me look like thin or petite or cutesy. Because I feel like I already
06:21project that kind of vibe anyways, which is the way that I am and I talk. And the fact that
06:26I'm like
06:27a short, petite Asian girl that I feel like I don't want to really play into those stereotypes too much.
06:33What stands out the most to me is that you rely on a lot less than you used to. And
06:39I think that's
06:40a really interesting philosophy in that the more confident we become, we don't need so much.
06:45I mean, I think about the time when I first started a refinery, I would think about my outfits a
06:51lot.
06:51You know, I would wake up early, put together what I was wearing, look at myself in the mirror,
06:56and then change something, put something else on. I'm like, is the balance right? Is this like,
06:59it's the skirt matching with the whatever? Like, I don't look in the mirror these days very much.
07:05I don't care as much, you know? Like, I like my clothes, and I like my style, and I don't
07:10need
07:10it to look perfect.
07:12I want to talk about a very important memory that you and I share. We were traveling in Milan
07:19during Fashion Week. We had been dreaming about going to the Marni outlet. We love a bargain.
07:24And we're both really dedicated hunters. So we were practically running to the Marni store.
07:29Practically, we're. We're running.
07:31Definitely running.
07:32Yes, you have a picture of me running, actually, running to the path. And when we were checking
07:38out of the Marni outlet, this young Italian woman who didn't speak very much English looks at you,
07:44and then she looks at your credit card, and she looks back at you, and she looks back at your
07:48credit card. And then she says, Connie Wong. And we both were sort of like, oh my God, is there
07:55a worn out for your arrest? And she sort of, you know, took her hand to her chest, and she
07:59was
07:59like, Refinery29. She's like, I love your work. And I think I might have started crying
08:05on the spot. This is a long ways away from New York. And I think that that was really such
08:13a moment for you and I to not only realize how far the impact of our work reaches, but to
08:23see what
08:24your writing meant to her. And it was specifically the story about ugly shoes. Tell us about that essay.
08:32It started when, you know, I saw a Japanese woman walking down the street outside of our office in
08:38Astor place, and she was wearing these white Birkenstocks that I'm actually wearing today
08:44with a back strap. I chased her down. I was like, where did you get those? Because I've only seen
08:49the one with the double strap. Like, there's no back strap. And she didn't speak English, and she
08:54couldn't tell me where she got them, and I was obsessed. And so I went online. I checked and checked.
08:59All my friends were like, do not get those, Connie. They look so bad. And this is, I think this
09:03is
09:03before the Birkenstocks craze took off. And I had to have them, and I bought them. And people made
09:09fun of me. Like, my friends made fun of me. They were like, these are the ugliest shoes I've ever
09:13seen. And to be honest, they do make my feet look like baguettes. Like, the short ones, not the long
09:20skinny ones. Like, the short squat baguettes. But I love them so much. And, you know, even the past
09:25seven years, like, I started off wearing only heels to work. Do you remember that? Every day, I wore
09:30wedges, like, actual proper heels, like, heeled sandals, strappy sandals. It was pumps. Oh, my gosh.
09:37And I attribute a lot of that style change to, you know, just, like, the changes in, you know, who
09:41I am
09:42as a woman, as a professional. And so this essay was a lot about, you know, why I like ugly
09:47shoes.
09:48And, you know, why I'm thinking that the industry was shifting at the time to, you know, sell more ugly
09:53shoes. You know, women didn't want to wear, like, dainty, like, petite, precious shoes that were
09:58uncomfortable anymore. And I thought that was an amazing, awesome thing. And women shouldn't be
10:02scared about, you know, ugliness.
10:05Or perceived ugliness.
10:07Perceived ugliness. And it should be a badge of honor, I think. Whenever I see another woman still
10:11in, like, ugly shoes, I'm just like, I know I could be friends with her.
10:14But I think that that essay, what was so important about it and continues to be important is that it
10:19represented for you and I who really believe in this feeling that you don't have to sort of look
10:25predictably feminine to be cool or to be stylish. And that's okay. And comfort is really important.
10:31And it's not something to be embarrassed about. You know, you have to suffer for fashion. You know,
10:36I don't necessarily believe that. I don't think you do either.
10:38I think for a lot of places, clothes are meant to do a few things to women. They're meant to
10:43make
10:44them look skinny, tall, more feminine, and richer.
10:47And attractive to men.
10:48And attractive to men. Yes, exactly. And I don't think that we operate under those assumptions at
10:53Refinery29, which is so liberating. You know, clothes are meant to make you look more you,
10:58you know, more authentic, more interesting, more comfortable. It's the clothes are supposed to
11:03aid you in doing the things that you already want to do in your life and more. And so when
11:07we do our
11:08any story, like a shopping roundup, when we do a fashion news story about an industry thing that
11:14many people might not care about, but or know the players within it, but you know, the themes might be
11:19things that they don't understand. Or, you know, when we ask someone to write a personal essay about
11:24a topic, we always tell them that they cannot assume that our readers care about looking skinny
11:29or looking tall or feminine or attractive to men.
11:32I think that that's a new concept, though. I think that there is finally an open dialogue
11:38in this industry about the fact that we cannot assume that all women want to look thin.
11:46Yeah, it's wrong. Yeah. And, you know, sort of imposing that ideal onto women is really toxic.
11:54It might seem like such a subtle, non harmful thing to be like, Oh, my God, that looks so
12:00flattering on you makes you look so skinny. It's like a little worm that just pours itself into
12:05your brain. Like, Oh, skinny is good. I must always look skinny. I must never wear anything that makes
12:10me look a little bit wider than I am. When I was single, and like my entire goal for an
12:14entire
12:14evening was to like meet guys, I had to look skinny to make that happen. And now I could care
12:20less
12:20about whether I look thin or big or square or like a bowling pin or like whatever. I don't care
12:27about
12:27what shape I look like any day. Like, and it's actually sort of alarming when people are like,
12:31Oh, my God, your waist looks so thin. I'm like, it does? Like, what did I do? You know, like,
12:36what's wrong? And I think that most people who work at Refinery29 espouse those values and that
12:42mission, I think that's so awesome. Like, we just did this massive package on Generation Z,
12:47which is the generation after millennials. And it was so surprising and encouraging to me to realize
12:52that it's the norm for this generation to understand that, you know, women are whole
13:00beings. And that extensive the way they dress to, you know, from all the teens that we talked to,
13:05no one was like, Oh, yes, I would love to look this like this, like very outdated model of like,
13:11what a woman traditionally should look like. No one ever said that everyone's like, Oh, I want to
13:15look like boyish today, and like, maybe girly tomorrow, or like, the trends that they looked to,
13:21or, you know, could be traditionally thought of as really unattractive, or like, and flattering. And I
13:25think that's so cool. I think that this idea that like, fashion is only meant for a certain kind of
13:30person is really getting to be very outdated. And that's so cool to me.
13:35And I think you are such a beautiful example of this is just showing, you know, how your style
13:39changes as you change.
13:42Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with your style changing throughout the years, you know,
13:45you can't expect a human being to stay the same throughout their lifetime. And it's crazy to
13:49think that their style would stay the same. And I'm so proud of the how I've been throughout my
13:53entire life, even the embarrassing, horrible, like, not so fun moments to remember, but like,
13:59it was it's, it's a part of me. And the way that I used to dress, not to say that
14:03I would wear the
14:03same things I used to wear. But I look back on those moments with fondness, like that Michael
14:08Kors duct tape dress, like that was that was me when I first moved to New York. And I was
14:12trying
14:12to do something with my clothes that, you know, I don't feel like I need to do anymore. But I
14:16had
14:16to do it back then to get to where I am now.
14:18I think that everyone is probably guilty of going through some awkward phases. But you know,
14:24ours were an awkward decade.
14:26Yeah, I felt like I was like 10 feet tall by the time I was in second grade. And it
14:31was just,
14:31it was bearing down on me. And I think that there is something that happens when as a child,
14:40you are aware of being different. It's really not about being beautiful or not beautiful. It's
14:47really just about being different. And I think there's such a different sensibility about being
14:51different. There's more of a need to be different now, you know, with younger people.
14:55Yeah. So we have a series. It's a this is the second year we're doing it. And it's called
15:00fuck the fashion rules. This industry, the fashion industry is very sort of reliant on
15:06rule based culture, like do this, don't do this.
15:10It's our fashion departments like banner series, because we think that, you know, great personal
15:15style is not rule based. It's all subjective. And what we like to do our refinery is provide you
15:21with all the resources you need, all the retailers, all of the products and trends and things
15:25that are possibly out there and let you make the decisions for yourself. We're never going to
15:29tell you what to wear, because that's not our jobs. That's crazy. And we actually wanted to,
15:35you know, deliberately attack and break down the sort of idea that you have to follow rules in
15:40order to be stylish.
15:42Well, thank you so much for being on Unstyled, Connie.
15:45Thanks for having me.
15:46I hope you'll come back.
15:47Oh, yeah. I mean, you just have to turn around your desk and I'm going to be I'm going to
15:51be there.
15:51Exactly. No formal emails to you.
15:53No.
15:54Thanks, Connie.
15:55Thanks, Christine.
15:57I hope you're inspired after hearing Connie Wang's story. For even more Unstyled extras,
16:02check out Refinery29 or my Instagram at Christine Barbrick. You can also join the conversation using
16:08the hashtag Unstyled across your social media. And of course, we'd be super grateful if you'd
16:13please subscribe to Unstyled on iTunes and rate us while you're there. You can head to
16:18Refinery29.com to find this episode and more and make sure to sign up for our exclusive Unstyled
16:24newsletter delivered straight to your inbox every week. This season was produced and edited by Elisa
16:29Kreisinger with production assistance from Rebecca Easley for Refinery29. Copy and research support
16:35provided by Lila Brilsen. Our theme music today is by the artist Koff. Hannes Brown produced our
16:41episode music and we recorded Unstyled with Paul Ruist. I'm your host, Christine Barbrick,
16:47and I hope you've enjoyed Unstyled just as much as we've enjoyed making it for you.
16:51We'll see you back here next season.