- 34 minutes ago
Until recently, Kate and Laura Mulleavy have focused their storytelling through the creation of artful, often ephemeral fashion designs. As their now iconic company and collection, Rodarte, continues to be a staple among Hollywood's most intriguing, the designers share the newest chapter to their story. . . on the big screen.
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00:01Welcome to Unstyled. I'm your host, Christine Barbrick, co-founder and global editor-in-chief
00:06of Refinery29. Each week, I invite a notable person to come in and talk with us as we explore
00:12the funny, inspiring, sometimes heartbreaking tales of life, work, and love, as told through
00:19the things that we wear. There's no denying that a special kind of magic is sparked when sisters get
00:31down to business together. And there's no sister duo that exhibits that mystical chemistry quite
00:36like Kate and Laura Malevy. As the founders of the mercurial yet iconic Rodarte, the art-inflected
00:43fashion collection they created in their parents' kitchen when they were still basically kids,
00:48Kate and Laura are currently helming not just one of the most admired brands in the fashion
00:52universe today, but one of the most intriguing. Despite being anointed Vogue darlings pretty much
00:59from the get-go, they credit Anna Wintour with giving them the best advice ever. More about that
01:04later. And taking on wildly popular collaborations with And Other Stories and Target, Kate and Laura
01:10have somehow managed to avoid surrendering to the public demands routinely imposed on muses of the
01:16moment. They didn't blow up on social media or massively scale their operation. They didn't
01:22even decamp to one of the bigger fashion cities beyond their native Pasadena, California. Instead,
01:27they've steadily driven their company and their dreams to not only stay true to their brand,
01:32but also their impulses and roots as real artists.
01:35Beyond just red carpet famous clothing, the two have just debuted their first feature film titled
01:41Woodshock, starring and co-produced by their kindred creative collaborator and friend, Kirsten Dunst.
01:48Woodshock, which premiered at the Venice Film Festival last month and recently opened in theaters,
01:53tells the story of a woman emotionally unraveling right alongside the tension of the vanishing Pacific
01:59Northwest Redwoods. The film is quiet, dreamlike, spooky, and also tactile, not unlike their fashion.
02:07Most of all, it translates and propels the sisters' work as visual storytellers to a different dimension.
02:13Because they're not just fashion designers or filmmakers or entrepreneurs or artists. In fact,
02:20if there were a new image of what a powerful young Renaissance woman could be,
02:24Kate and Laura Malevy of Redarte would be it.
02:31Kate and Laura, it's so nice to meet you guys. Thank you so much for being guests on Unstyled today.
02:35Thanks for having us.
02:36Yeah, we're, wait, is this our intro?
02:38Yeah, that's fine.
02:39No, I actually like that.
02:41You launched in 2005.
02:42You launched Redarte in 2005.
02:45Coincidentally, we launched Refinery29 in 2005.
02:48Oh, cool.
02:49It was just such a different time, even though it was 12 and a half years ago.
02:52But tell me about what was going on in your lives at that time and why it seemed like the
02:57right time to start your company.
02:59I think Laura and I did everything so organically.
03:02We didn't really have a master plan in a sense.
03:04We had both gone to UC Berkeley and Laura had studied, you know, English literature and I was an art
03:10history major.
03:11And we were interested in fashion.
03:14It's weird to look back on it because I don't know if you have the same experience.
03:18But when I think about it, I thought now when I make a decision about what I'm doing, I'm much
03:24more aware of that decision.
03:2612 years ago, it felt like I was deciding to do something very casual.
03:31Maybe because we were more naive about the actual industry.
03:34It allowed it to be more free.
03:36I think some of my earliest fashion obsession really came from cinema because my mom would sometimes just say to
03:42us, oh, let's take – you don't need to go to school this week.
03:45I want you to see all the Hitchcock films.
03:47To put it in perspective, when we first went to New York for our first – the first pieces we
03:52made, we were in Los Angeles and we were encouraged to go to New York City.
03:58Laura and I had never been to New York.
04:00And when we got to New York, we didn't know what we were doing.
04:02We didn't even know what fashion week was.
04:05And when we got here with these, like – I think we had eight pieces of clothing.
04:10I remember after –
04:11I read it was 10.
04:12It was 10.
04:12Oh, 10.
04:12Kate always tells us the wrong facts.
04:14Just don't warn you.
04:15When we got to New York City, we had made these clothes.
04:18And we got here.
04:18We didn't know anyone.
04:19We were staying in our friend's apartment in the East Village.
04:22And she was in art conservation school.
04:24So she would go to Turkey for the summer, come back with, like, five stray dogs.
04:28We were in this cramped East Village apartment.
04:30Laura and I – New York for us, we didn't understand it.
04:34We didn't know how to get around.
04:37And we would call people.
04:38You know, just because we liked magazines, we would call the –
04:42The Mastads.
04:43The Mastads.
04:44I had made handmade paper dolls, which were – basically I had made an armoire.
04:48And when you opened it, there was a little doll.
04:51And I did all her dresses and little accessories.
04:53I would never do this now.
04:55And it was so much work.
04:57And we sent them.
04:58I don't believe that you wouldn't do that now.
05:00I bet you would.
05:01Oh, no.
05:01We say that every few seasons.
05:03I like to say that.
05:04And then it's like –
05:05You gave everybody an armoire?
05:07No.
05:07There was like 15.
05:08Maybe 15.
05:08And I think we have one set.
05:10And I don't think anyone at the magazines actually got them.
05:13So if someone has them, raise their hand and tell us because we're looking for a set.
05:17And Autumn, we gave one to our best friend, Autumn.
05:21And she kept it and gave it to us.
05:22And now I don't know what we did with it.
05:25So I don't know.
05:27Are they made of cardboard or –
05:28We like drawing paper.
05:29And then the armoire was made of nice – it was just like a constructed – I have a photograph
05:33of them.
05:34They're really beautiful.
05:35I have to see that.
05:35They look kind of old-fashioned in a weird way.
05:38But we liked paper dolls when we were younger.
05:40It was, you know, the most fun toy that we had.
05:44Oh, I still love them.
05:45I mean, anytime anyone gives me a paper doll, anything, I'm just like – I just love anything in a
05:50paper doll more.
05:51We're going to do an exhibit at the National Gallery for Women in the Arts in Washington, D.C.
05:57And we were just there and we were thinking, well, what can – you know, what cool things can you
06:01do for the museum, for the gift shop?
06:04And we were like, we have to do paper dolls.
06:06I think there's also something about what it says about the preciousness of fashion.
06:10And paper dolls are something that you can handle, that you can actually play with.
06:13You know, and the paper dolls we had when we were kids, they came in these like books and you
06:16would pop them out and stuff.
06:18And, yeah, they were all very, like, heteronormative and, like, had, like, you know, just, like, white skinny ladies with
06:24blonde hair.
06:25But it should be much different now.
06:27Yeah, little tags that you like.
06:28Yeah, you could put the little dress on.
06:30But we sent those and no one really got them.
06:34So when we were here, we were just kind of calling people randomly.
06:36And eventually after about two days, Laura and I both said, no, this is a huge disaster.
06:42We should have never come to New York.
06:44This is not working.
06:46What we were thinking because we just didn't – we didn't know anything.
06:48We had no money.
06:50And then we got –
06:50And we spent all our money.
06:51Were you thinking you were going to stay in New York until you actually made contact with someone at a
06:55magazine?
06:56So you were there indefinitely.
06:57I think if I remember this right, we just had booked –
06:58I think we had, like, a big fake idea of what it means to come to a city.
07:02You're thinking it's like the movies.
07:04Oh, someone's going to pick up your call and something will happen.
07:06But you know what?
07:07They did.
07:08Because that's what's crazy about the story is that literally probably the end point of when we were like, this
07:13just didn't work.
07:14We got a phone call from Women's Wear Daily and they just literally said to us, just come down to
07:20the offices.
07:20We walked in and within five minutes, Bobby Queen at the time came in, looked at our clothes, went and
07:26got Bridget.
07:27Bridget Foley came in.
07:28Who's the nicest and most lovely person and so intelligent?
07:32Yeah, she's so cool.
07:33I love that.
07:34She's out of an old movie.
07:35I always say she reminds me of our – what's that film?
07:38She's kind of like a –
07:39She's kind of like a Catherine Hepburn kind of like Philadelphia story kind of character.
07:43And she came in and she asked us all these questions and was looking at the clothes and then said,
07:48Do you mind if we formally ask you questions?
07:52And we had never been interviewed at the time, so we didn't really understand that was happening.
07:56And then she said, We want to take your pictures.
07:58And we did that too.
07:59And two days later, I guess the very end of our trip, they called us and said, Go to the
08:03newsstand.
08:04Like, how do you go to a newsstand?
08:06Yeah, you're right.
08:06We didn't even know how to go to a newsstand.
08:09I mean, we were so – I can't explain it.
08:11It was just like everything seemed so different and bigger.
08:14Well, it was foreign to you.
08:15I mean, a New York newsstand is familiar to us, but there's somebody from the outside.
08:19And I also just want to preface this by saying Women's Wear Daily, for our listeners who don't know, is
08:24really the industry newspaper traditionally or historically in the fashion industry.
08:28And it really is kind of –
08:29Like an insider's Bible type thing.
08:31And at the time, it was – because we didn't – before the internet and all those things, it was
08:37like the way that you would get kind of an inside track on something.
08:40It was the baseline of everything in fashion.
08:42So we go to the newsstand, and we look, and they had put us on the cover.
08:46And what we didn't know was that it was the day before Fashion Week, so people were really reading it.
08:51She must have somehow portended that your work was going to find its way into the lives and experiences of
08:57these young, interesting, sort of professional actors.
09:00I think it was a combination that we were from L.A.
09:02I think everyone was just like, what is L.A.?
09:05Like, New York didn't understand our city at all, which is fair.
09:08But it was kind of like – definitely looked down upon.
09:13In terms of fashion, I would say.
09:14In terms of fashion.
09:15You know what I mean?
09:16It was like weird jeans and like –
09:18Like, yeah, weird jeans and shirts and stuff.
09:20And also at the time, people didn't know.
09:22It's changed and evolved so much.
09:24Now it's kind of you can work and do what you want on your own terms.
09:29But it really was a scenario of – you didn't think about the type of design we were going to
09:34do coming from Los Angeles.
09:35Although there has been a huge history of it with Galanos and certainly, you know, Hollywood costume design was really
09:43the first medium to compete with Paris Couture.
09:47Much more than, you know, ready-to-wear came after that.
09:51So in a sense, there's a really deep history of it in L.A.
09:54But –
09:55Edith Head, right?
09:56But maybe that's why she conflated it.
09:59Yeah, probably.
09:59That's how fashion was – high fashion was kind of seen.
10:02But do you think that when you saw it, when that all happened, you know, probably in the span of
10:0724 hours, did you, like, acknowledge in that moment, like, we have a business now?
10:12Like, we're doing this?
10:13Like, was it real for you then?
10:15Yeah, because we were like, oh, I guess we have to find a store now because –
10:18I kind of feel like I've always been one of those people that's very noncommittal.
10:23So even though we have this business, it's still like that question, oh, we're doing this.
10:28But there's no 15-year plan to map it out.
10:32I try to keep it as spontaneous as we can because that's the beauty of being independent and getting to
10:38answer to ourselves and making it as exciting as we can.
10:41Well, also, fashion is very creative.
10:43I mean, we've said from day one, you know, we do this for artistic reasons.
10:47That's what we do.
10:48And if it wasn't that, then it wouldn't be the same thing for us.
10:52And I think back in that time period, what's interesting is we really didn't know just the things that make
10:57a fashion brand technically work in terms of getting stuff into a store, all those things.
11:02We had no idea.
11:03We didn't even know how to design.
11:04Like, we made those 10 pieces.
11:06Those are the first pieces we ever made.
11:08So it was like a self-discovery process even in our earliest years.
11:13I think we were figuring out what do we like to make, what's natural to us, what's us.
11:19And I think just our background kind of set up the standard of saying the only thing that you can
11:24really put out into the world should be your unique viewpoint, and that's what you can offer.
11:29But certainly that experience changed our lives because we went back to L.A. three weeks, you know, and within
11:35three weeks, Lisa Love, the senior West Coast editor of Vogue, called us in our office and said,
11:42Hey, like, she told someone in her office, I just read about some, you know, girls from Pasadena.
11:46I want to meet them.
11:47And we went and saw her, and then a day later got a phone call from her saying, Anna Ventura
11:52is going to be, you know, in L.A., and she's going to come see you and come see the
11:56clothes.
11:58And what did you think of that?
11:59I mean, did you know what that meant?
12:00I did know.
12:01That was so scary.
12:03I've never spent more time thinking about an outfit in my entire life.
12:07And I still now wouldn't think that much about anything.
12:11I just didn't know.
12:11It was like meeting the queen, you know.
12:13It is like meeting the queen.
12:15And also, I remember she was wearing this black Astrakhan fur Prada coat.
12:19Do you remember this with the embroidery?
12:20And it was like, it's L.A., so it's 90 degrees outside in this black fur coat.
12:24She has such tremendous physical presence.
12:27One of the most important things that we ever, anyone ever told us is what Anna said when we first
12:31met her.
12:32And we said, well, do you think we need to move to New York?
12:35And she said, she looked at our stuff and she said, you know, I can tell what you do is
12:39really personal.
12:40And you're going to need to keep it that way.
12:42And you know what?
12:43That's what we've done the whole time.
12:45And I was like, I always think it's the best advice anyone's ever given me.
12:49I think you moving to New York like so soon after launching would have been, it would have been a
12:54shock.
12:54It would have also not been a place that inspired me creatively.
12:58And I think a lot of what we do involves California and it's just what I need around us.
13:05And I need to be in nature and it's just something day to day I use as a way of
13:10creating.
13:11Earlier this year, you showed your collection in Paris for the first time.
13:15Tell me a little bit about why you wanted to do that.
13:18One of the things is that on a practical level, the place that we showed at out of New York
13:23was finally being torn down after, you know, they had been threatening it for about three years.
13:27And it was the old DIA Gallery downtown.
13:29So we were displaced.
13:30We didn't have a new home yet for New York City Fashion Week.
13:35And I'm sure it's a nightmare finding, like securing a place because of all the permits and I don't know.
13:41It's also looking for a place that has some type of personality that represents you.
13:45And our show producer, Alex Devatak, he had been saying for years to us, I really think that you should
13:52show in Paris.
13:53And I think a tour would be a great home for you.
13:56And I think at that crossroads, it was literally, I think, December 22nd.
14:02We got this amazing Criterion film set from Janice Films and we were going through it and watching like Seven
14:07Samurai with our mom and it was the holidays.
14:10And instead of focusing on this amazing movie, I'm like, oh, are we going to do our show in Paris?
14:14And we get this email from Bureau of Attack being like, it's time.
14:18And we're like, oh, no.
14:19And it actually seemed serious at this point because we were like, I kind of agree.
14:24Tell the part about this is the crazy part.
14:26I'm going to.
14:27And then one day we came home and we got this fan letter.
14:31And I don't know how anyone got our address.
14:33And we've never gotten a fan letter before.
14:36Really?
14:37Maybe.
14:37We've gotten three.
14:38We've gotten like three.
14:39And we.
14:40I'm going to write you guys a fan letter.
14:42And we opened it.
14:43And this person wrote from Fran saying, when are you showing in Paris?
14:47And we have it.
14:47It was like a handwritten letter.
14:48It was a handwritten letter.
14:49And we're like, oh, my God, it's a sign.
14:52So we called up Alex and we're like, we're going to do it.
14:54And he's like so excited because I think that he, as our show producer, just knew the creativity
15:00he could bring out from that city into what we do and knew that the setting could be equally
15:06as romantic as our clothes are.
15:07And in New York, what we had done is say like there's this kind of gallery setting in which
15:12to show the clothes.
15:13And that's a little bit more removed feeling.
15:16And over as we kind of got in the last few years, we started breaking that down and making
15:22it a little bit more organic in terms of this show set.
15:25So I think that the idea of getting to Paris was saying, let's fully embrace what our ideas
15:32are as designers in the set as well as in the clothes.
15:35So it was just the feeling of being at that show matched more the feeling we feel when we
15:41make the pieces.
15:42And I think the acknowledgement of who we are as designers, in a sense, because, you know,
15:48the interesting things is, is that it's a, you know, delicate balance figuring out what
15:54your hand is, what you have to say, realizing that, you know, a lot of times we just, you
15:59know, Laura and I kind of don't read reviews of the shows and we kind of stay isolated in
16:04our own.
16:05And it's better that way because then you kind of take the steps I think that you need
16:08to take versus maybe what people think you should be doing.
16:12I've never had an experience on a show where I just, every time we would be working on
16:18a look, you know, when we're styling things and all that.
16:20So in the preparation leading up to it, it felt like working in my own mind on a painting
16:25and I just was enjoying it.
16:27You know, you do things for 10 years and it's really important to kind of change something.
16:33And I just think that's a natural part of creative evolution.
16:37You know, when you get very comfortable.
16:39The moment that you get too comfortable in anything is probably the moment that you're
16:44the least fun person in the world to be around.
16:54The fact that you're talking about being unconventional in your approach to Rodarte and also just the
16:59decisions that you make, do you look at it as a business with a business lens or do you
17:04worry about like, you know, keeping the lights on and paying the bills?
17:07Certainly it is a business.
17:08We've been, you know, we've been doing it independently for 10 years.
17:11And if you look at the track record of how that gets done, the facts are is that in this
17:16climate, it's almost impossible to be an independent designer.
17:20We act as CEOs of our company.
17:23But my creativity is the thing that counts the most to us.
17:27And that's what I would protect more than anything.
17:30And I think having that agency is such an important understanding of who you are.
17:34And of course, I look at it as a business.
17:37I just think that's secondary to me.
17:40And I will totally be honest about that because those aren't my interests in life.
17:45So I like to make things.
17:48That's where I get my joy.
17:49But there are qualities of that that actually like support and drive a business too.
17:53I think sometimes they're not necessarily, you know, maybe taught in business school.
17:57I think they go hand in hand.
17:58I think what I would say too is about what Laura is saying is very true.
18:02But in a sense, the reason if your creativity is your most important thing that you protect
18:08for what you're making, then she's right.
18:10That's why we run our own business.
18:12Because ultimately, we are the protectors of what we do.
18:15To do that for as many years as we've done independently is, as I was saying, a lot of times
18:21I think it's funny when people don't acknowledge that side of us.
18:25So I think, gosh, do you even know how crazy it is to do this?
18:29That's because we're women.
18:29So I will say that.
18:30Yeah, I think so.
18:31A hundred percent.
18:32Because I've been doing this for a very long time and it's just what it is.
18:36And if we were two men in this industry, it would be a different story.
18:40The headlines would be different.
18:42It would be a different reaction to what we make.
18:44And it would just be different.
18:46What do you think the criticisms would be?
18:47I don't know if there would be a critique.
18:49Right now, the critique would be something like, oh, it's not commercial or it's not wearable.
18:53And I always think, well, we're making high fashion.
18:56Are we supposed to dress the entire population?
18:59It costs a certain amount of money.
19:02People don't want to dress like everybody.
19:04So for me, that's a very interesting question about why you make things and how it's viewed.
19:10I would love to jump over to the film Woodshock that you both wrote and directed and produced
19:16with Kirsten Dunst.
19:17Tell me about how that film came to be.
19:20It was very immersive and I loved it.
19:24And it was, yeah, it was really moving and it was creepy and weird, but also really beautiful.
19:30And it was almost like your clothes and your design had kind of multiplied into this clandestine
19:38community somewhere.
19:39But tell us about the birth of Woodshock.
19:42Kate and I grew up in Northern California and we were in a very rural area outside of Santa
19:47Cruz called Aptos and literally our street that we grew up on was a horse ranch, an apple
19:52orchard, and then an old growth redwood forest.
19:56And I think since a young age, the biggest inspiration we had was in our lives has been
20:02being able to play in that landscape.
20:04You just have a different relationship to light and to shadow and to time.
20:09And that's what the film's about.
20:10And we wanted to kind of make an experience that could maybe give you some perspective
20:15of what it's like to stand in the middle of one of those forests and to say that, you
20:19know, you can feel so isolated.
20:21And this character that we wrote and came alive with Kirsten, you know, is going through a very
20:26deep, severe period of grief and isolation.
20:30And then, but it's told through a very stream of conscious narrative and something that's very
20:35subjective.
20:35So it's all about her.
20:37I think of her as almost like Odysseus.
20:40She's like someone that's guiding you through this ancient story.
20:43And she's this great narrator.
20:45And it just happens to be based on the five senses.
20:49So she's very aware of what life is.
20:52Bringing to life a story that centers around a female character was really interesting to
20:58kind of really let go of the idea of explanation and really just actually tell a story that was
21:05more about, I think, in a sense, agency, but also agency that's more about a stream of
21:11conscious version of it.
21:12So you kind of just see her doing things or thinking.
21:16I also I also thought it was really interesting that with the exception of the marijuana
21:22dispensary, it was hard to figure out where when it was.
21:25There was like a timelessness to the to the style and it could have been like the late 70s.
21:30It could have been the 90s.
21:32It could have been now.
21:32I wasn't really sure that was really important for us because the idea of a stream of consciousness
21:38and an experience that's subjective, we really felt like you needed to be in Teresa's world.
21:43This is a movie about where there's a real landscape.
21:47We're in shot at all in Humboldt.
21:49You're in these incredible redwood forest.
21:53But it's also a mental landscape.
21:56It's how they experience the world.
21:57And this is really her world, her version of it.
21:59It's not her boyfriend's version of it.
22:01You know, we only get to know her boyfriend through her disconnection through him.
22:05That's it.
22:06The other people that she encounters, it's not their version of the world.
22:09It's really hers.
22:09And I think to do that, we really made a point of trying to create a sense of dislocated time.
22:16So there were things like there might be a digital clock in one scene, but then you'd see in the
22:22pot shop there was no cast register.
22:25So we just did strange things.
22:27And also we shot a lot of the film through a reflection, which is not something you might notice upon
22:33first viewing.
22:34We spent every day with our DP in the morning before shots or actually evening because we shot a lot
22:40at night.
22:41We would spend like 30 minutes talking.
22:43Okay, here's our normal shot we would do.
22:45And then let's do the wood shock way.
22:47Certain things would happen.
22:48Like we would discover that the house that we were shooting in that's Teresa's was a house that a logging
22:53company's owner had made in the 50s.
22:56And then it was made out of redwood.
22:57So when she's touching the floor and thinking of her mom, like in those six scenes or the wall, she's
23:03rubbing a redwood tree or a past one.
23:06I think space became very interesting for us.
23:09And what she was walking in and out of is, you know, this idea of the mental landscape versus the
23:14physical.
23:14The idea is that she's kind of floating through it all, I think.
23:18You obviously have a really long friendship with with Kirsten.
23:22What was it like?
23:22I mean, this is obviously like you really share this film with her.
23:25Yeah.
23:26What was it like working with her on that?
23:27Well, it was so exciting because we brought her into our process and she brought us into her.
23:32So it was it was such a gift to work with someone that's so emotionally open.
23:37And as a fan of hers, I would say that what I admire in her work, in her body of
23:43work, is that she's such an innate, natural actor.
23:45And I think that's because she's completely open to other people.
23:49And she's this, I would say, a vessel of emotion.
23:52And essentially, we're making a silent film.
23:54Really, what we needed to have is someone that was so extremely expressive.
23:58And so having a person that's able to access emotions that I think most people are cut off from, but
24:04then not be weighed down by is really kind of a feat.
24:09And Kirsten kind of brought us into her.
24:11She calls her kind of like a life coach.
24:14She's, you know, maybe would be a traditional acting teacher, but not really because she's about dreams and psychology and
24:21really teaching her how to access what she does and to harness it.
24:26And so we worked with her for a long time about this character so that when we got on set,
24:32it was just like a celebration of this person.
24:35And I think that we discovered Teresa when we were in Humboldt.
24:38She certainly became more alive because we were surrounded by these trees.
24:42We were isolated just like she was.
24:44I felt like the most intense working experience, but the most wonderful.
24:49There was something about her that reminded me of Jenna Rollins from that Cassavetes film, Woman Under the Influence.
24:56I love that movie.
24:57There was something about her that I don't know if it was intentional at all because I actually think the
25:01movie was so original in so many ways.
25:04But there was also some like Vim Vendors in there too.
25:06A friend of ours saw the film, Kathy Opie, and she said, you know, I really think this is about
25:11the idea of what it means to be sublime and the nature of beauty and destruction.
25:16I said that is what we were exploring, whether sublime comes from grief, through violence, through love.
25:24And I think these are big – to me, these are really interesting ideas that aren't really dealt with on
25:32screen for women as much.
25:34I think depending on your upbringing and, you know, how open you are about your own feelings and things that
25:40you go through, there's a lot of things that are more taboo for you to discuss and to share.
25:44And everyone has a pocket of that and some type of internalization.
25:50Teresa is just so sensitive that her internalization turns so self-destructive.
25:54But that's a play on the idea that she's in this landscape that was completely destroyed.
25:59So to go back to the idea of the redwoods, it's important to know that 95% of the old
26:04-growth redwoods were cut down.
26:05So what you have left in today's day and era is the small pockets that are protected.
26:12And Teresa would have grown up in a time period where people were protesting that.
26:17And you still had trees coming down on the hour.
26:19And when a tree came down, you would feel it for miles.
26:23Is that the woodshock?
26:24Yeah.
26:25So the idea of woodshock is – it was kind of twofold.
26:28Woodshock is that her condition, I think, this idea of being sensitive.
26:32I thought it was the trees feeling of the shock.
26:36Like they would experience – the stump would experience the shock of being cut down.
26:39I actually Googled it afterwards.
26:41I'm like, that must be what it means.
26:42But you know what?
26:43That's a really important and true interpretation.
26:46I think what Laura was saying is that for us, it kind of became the idea that there was a
26:52beautiful poem that we liked.
26:54This person, Ryder, was talking about how the deepest part of the forest is closest to the human kind of
27:02sub-unconsciousness.
27:04And we have a primal connection to it.
27:06So the further that we move away from that, the further we're kind of dislocating from our own humanity.
27:11That makes me so depressed right now.
27:13I know.
27:15And the idea that this character, what she goes through in the beginning, is making this one assault against –
27:22and it's a choice and something that's very giving.
27:25But at the same time, she's doing something that's an act against this idea of mother and motherhood.
27:31And that is a – you know, I think that's an analogy for the whole film.
27:35Someone saw the film and said to us, well, in a strange way, one of my favorite characters is the
27:39trees.
27:40And in truth, you know, one of the things that's hard to explain until you experience it in real life
27:45is that these trees are bigger than the Statue of Liberty.
27:49I don't even really truly have words for it.
27:52Essentially, they're giant ecosystems as you go higher and higher, right?
27:56They have a life force.
27:58And they're telling you something.
27:59And I think it's our choice as humans whether or not we listen to what they're trying to say.
28:04I think the point we're making in the film isn't that there's a right or wrong.
28:08I mean, we live – in order for humans to exist, you almost have to destroy.
28:11It's a natural part of it.
28:18There's something about – when I was reading about the references to horror and the fact that the two of
28:23you grew up, you know, appreciating horror as a genre, would you consider it a horror film in any way?
28:27A lot of people asked us, are you making a horror film?
28:31And they heard we were making a film.
28:32And I thought, gosh, our movie couldn't be farther from that idea really in terms of that general understanding.
28:38But I think what we brought to the table from our knowledge of what is interesting about horror and why
28:44we like it as a genre is that it's made of extreme awareness to all the senses.
28:51And I really think, you know, going into it, like something that's so successful about a horror film is you
28:57feel so isolated when you're watching it.
28:58You're really paying attention to what you're feeling.
29:01And I could watch a lot of films and I'm kind of just blissfully aware of what's happening.
29:06But in a horror film, the kind of the stakes are raised.
29:09You're – you know, there's a lot of tension.
29:11You have anxiety.
29:12And it's this idea of understanding what your fears are.
29:16In this sense, like, you know, we're dealing with questions of, you know, mortality and, like, the meaning of life
29:23and what we're doing to the planet.
29:25And I really think that that's the fear that we brought to the table with this film.
29:30And in order to show the extreme beauty of a landscape like these redwoods, I want – we wanted to
29:35depict the power of them.
29:36To say, like, yes, Mother Nature is so beautiful, but what happens when you abuse it too much?
29:41Like, you know, we're all dealing with global warming.
29:44We're dealing with all these things.
29:45And there's a consciousness to that.
29:48And we can't feel like we're the only people with these – or the only beings that have the ability
29:54to think.
29:55You know, like, what makes the world operate?
29:58We're all particles that kind of formed into what we are.
30:02So I think the idea is that horror is just an extreme way of really understanding the human emotion and
30:09the psyche.
30:09Kate and Laura, it was so much fun talking to you guys today.
30:13Thanks for having us.
30:14Oh, thanks so much.
30:14This was so fun.
30:15That went by too fast.
30:18I hope you're inspired after hearing Kate and Laura Malevy's story.
30:22For even more Unstyled extras, check out Refinery29 or my Instagram at Christine Barbrick.
30:28You can also join the conversation using the hashtag Unstyled across your social media.
30:33And of course, we'd be infinitely grateful if you'd please subscribe to Unstyled on Apple Podcasts and rate us while
30:39you're there.
30:40You can head to Refinery29.com to find this episode and more.
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30:50Our show today was executive produced by Sarah Bernard, associate produced by Rebecca Easley, and edited by Priscilla Mena.
30:57Copy support was provided by Elizabeth Kiefer.
31:00Our theme music today is by the artist Koff.
31:03And we recorded Unstyled with Paul Ruist at Argo Studios.
31:06We'll see you back here next Monday for a conversation with supermodel Miranda Kerr on the science and soulfulness of
31:12self-care.