- 31 minutes ago
You may have first fallen in serious love with Gabrielle Union from her supporting roles in the most iconic '90s coming-of-age classics. But these days, Gabrielle has shifted squarely into the spotlight, most recently starring in a 4-season run of the hit BET show, Being Mary Jane, and as a newly minted bestselling author of her memoir, "We're Going to Need More Wine." As one of today's most commanding female voices, Gabrielle is writing her own script, sharing honest stories about her work, her relationships, her journey to becoming a mother, and more. And yeah, she's also never not killing it in the style department, too.
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00:01Welcome to Unstyled. I'm your host, Christine Barbrick, co-founder and global editor-in-chief
00:06of Refinery29. Each week, I invite a notable person to come in and talk with us as we explore
00:12the funny, inspiring, sometimes heartbreaking tales of life, work, and love, as told through
00:19the things that we wear. We first caught a glimpse of Gabrielle Union some 20 years ago
00:30in the beloved 90s coming-of-age cult classics, She's All That and Ten Things I Hate About You.
00:37Then came an unforgettable turn as a fierce and spirited cheer captain in the turn of the millennium
00:42mega-hit, Bring It On, a role she admits she rewrote with the director to better depict a young black
00:48woman. In those days, she dominated in milestone supporting roles, but not anymore. Today,
00:55Union's purview in Hollywood and in life is a heck of a lot bigger. In fact, her lead as the
01:01modern-day
01:01girl boss in the four-season hit Being Mary Jane helped us to see a whole new kind of driven,
01:08complex woman who's constantly begging the question, can women really have it all?
01:13In a time when strong black women are overhauling TV, thank you Kerry Washington, Shonda Rhimes,
01:18Issa Rae, Taraji P. Henson, Tracy Ellis Ross, and Viola Davis, Gabrielle continues to be a key
01:25disruptor, on screen and in real life. Last year after the director of Birth of a Nation became
01:31embroiled in a rape scandal, Gabrielle penned an op-ed in the Los Angeles Times, revealing her own
01:37personal experience with sexual violence at 19. She was an activist before that, but the article
01:43thrust her even more into the spotlight, helping her to shed light on racism, sexism, standards of
01:50beauty, and a host of other issues that continue to hold women back. And while some celebrities shy
01:55away from soul-bearing social media, this particular superstar opts for realness over rhetoric. Whether
02:02it's speaking openly about her struggles with fertility, her entrepreneurial endeavors, or her
02:07often hilarious Twitter exchanges with NBA star husband, Dwayne Wade, Gabrielle makes us feel more
02:13like close friends than fans. And that spirit is exactly what's at the heart of her sparkling new
02:18memoir, We're Going to Need More Wine, which is filled with frank, funny, deeply personal essays
02:23detailing her journey to right here, right now. A moment when Gabrielle Union continues to write the
02:29script to her own life, her way.
02:35Hi, Gabrielle.
02:36Hi.
02:36I'm so excited to have you as a guest on Unstyled today.
02:39Thanks.
02:40Your memoir, We're Going to Need More Wine. I can't believe that that title has not been taken.
02:44I got lucky.
02:45I know.
02:46I got very lucky.
02:47Let's start talking about like this switch from Nebraska to California. There's a lot in the book
02:53about Val Vista, which was working middle class with upper middle class goals, and talked about this
02:58sort of idea of you knew everything you needed to know about somebody's economic status by like
03:03where their house was. And I totally related to that, you know, kind of growing up in a wealthy
03:08South Shore Long Island town, but being in the shittiest part of that town, and knowing that
03:13everybody knew that, you know, we were probably the poorest family, you know, at that school district.
03:18Tell me about how that kind of experience shaped you.
03:21When you're young, you don't really have a concept of, you know, how much your parents make.
03:26Are they living beyond their means? Are they living well below their means? Like, you just don't really know.
03:31And it kind of manifests itself into how much stuff you get. And is your stuff the top of the
03:38line stuff?
03:39Is it the right stuff?
03:39Is it the right stuff?
03:40It's the stuff that your friends have.
03:42Yeah. And then you start to notice, okay, they've got Welch's grape juice. And if anything,
03:47we might have grape drink, those kinds of things. And then it's kind of mortifying. And you're
03:53constantly trying to prove that you're better than your subdivision. It's sort of being good in spite
03:58of, you know, it's the you're pretty for a black girl. You're so accomplished given that you're
04:05from Val Vista that you live in Val Vista. But to the rest of my family,
04:10it was aspirational living, like you guys made it. So it was always sort of between those two
04:16worlds of we have the by far the most of, you know, everyone in my family, and feeling like
04:23we had the least of everyone in the community. And we're black. And it's just one more thing that
04:31that makes you other and makes you feel less than and makes you feel surveilled.
04:35Do you think that that informed your own desire to make a good living and to really be ambitious?
04:41Yeah. I mean, part of that is, you know, my parents advice of you're going to have to be
04:46bigger, badder, better, stronger, faster, you're gonna have to work, you know, five times as hard
04:51just to be considered equal, all of that. And feeling like, okay, I don't ever want to have the
04:58worst house on the best block. And then, you know, when I started getting my own money,
05:02I did not want to live beyond my means. But I also didn't want to have crappy stuff,
05:06which kind of kept me in a state of living well below my means, but randomly splurging on certain
05:14things that would give me the appearance of success. So it wasn't like grape juice.
05:21I mean, what an extravagance.
05:23Yeah, grape juice.
05:24Why do you think that you struggled with self esteem?
05:27I think being black in predominantly white spaces, constantly being told that you're in,
05:35but you're out. Like the party was happening in a glass house. And I'm on the outside. So you can
05:40see it, you're dancing, you can hear the music, but it never really felt like I was on the inside,
05:45always feeling somehow less than, even when I had parties never that good.
05:51Those parties look damn fun, but it just never felt like I was fully in, you know, and then as
05:58I again, as I got older and parents, you know, my friend's parents started feeling more comfortable
06:02speaking uneditedly around us. And you hear the racist jokes, you hear the homophobic jokes, and
06:08you hear the jokes about, you know, class. And you realize those jokes apply to you. And you start
06:15to shrink and shrink and shrink.
06:17Your parents had a very complicated relationship.
06:20That's one way of putting it.
06:22Well, you can put it. I mean, how would you put it?
06:25Terribly dysfunctional, uneven, terribly matched. Watching my mom have to, you know, at certain
06:33points be indebted, you know, to the whims of my dad. Like, that was never going to be me. And
06:40I
06:40decided that at a very young age.
06:42I pulled this out because it made me cry when I read it in your book. The breaking point between
06:47your parents was when he said something mean to you and your sisters. And he left a note for your
06:54mother and misspelled her name. Knowing how dedicated your mother was to your family, it really broke my
07:01heart. Tell me about how that was like a big turning point for them. And for her, really.
07:05I had to relook at it through a different scope when I got divorced. When my standards and my
07:12expectations were so low, you know, that my mom suddenly made sense. And I remembered it all just
07:21from a very different perspective. Because as a teenager, I just thought, you look so stupid. Why
07:26don't you leave?
07:26It seems easy to leave.
07:27It seems so easy.
07:29I literally grew up looking at my mom thinking she was so dumb. And my mom's one of the most
07:35intelligent people I've ever met. Worldly, friendly, compassionate. She's a saint.
07:41But when I was young, when I was young, I just I didn't see it. All I saw was weakness.
07:46And I hated
07:47weakness. It still feels uncomfortable to this day. Like you just don't you have no idea, of course,
07:52as a kid, like, how finances are tied into and, and judgment and, and, and culture. And, you know,
08:00the fact that my grandma was like, you have a husband that brings home a paycheck, you have a
08:05house that has a pool, a slide, and a diving. What else do you want, bitch? Like, you've got you
08:12are
08:13living the dream. So what if he's got like, a girlfriend or, you know, whole other life doesn't,
08:18doesn't, you know, include you? He brings home the check. And it was, you know, my dad wasn't
08:23sly about it. He wasn't, he as he, you know, we just had this conversation. He's like, I didn't
08:27hide it. We're like, yeah, no, you didn't. He probably didn't think there was anything that
08:31that was that wrong with it. In his generation, it's like, but I brought home the check.
08:36And I did my part. I did my part. Like, what? I took you to Black Angus for our anniversary.
08:41What more do you want? Like, you know, like, I show up to the games. I'm at the school when
08:46I
08:46need to be like, what? Compatibility. Like, what? I mean, come on. No, let's see. You're asking for
08:52too much. Tell me when you decided to write the book. And was it fun? It seemed like it was
08:56fun
08:56to write. I wouldn't say fun. Healing in different ways. Some of it very satisfying. Some of it a relief,
09:05like, like a literally an orangutan had hopped off my back, just writing it down. But a lot of it,
09:10I just never thought I would ever share with the public, much less I didn't even want to share
09:15with my therapist, somebody I pay to not judge me. It was a challenging process at times. Some of the
09:21funner chapters, you know, the more funny chapters are written just I needed comic relief between
09:25some of the deeper, heavier, heavier stuff, like the Dan and Yogurt story.
09:31Do you want to tell that really quickly?
09:33Sure. There's an essay in the book about some of the downsides of fame, like buying tampons. And
09:40once someone recognizes you, they will follow you through the store. They want to know what's in
09:45your basket. And it's like the idea, like when you, I know I need, you know, super plus tampons
09:50and some always with wings because I do have a heavy flow. And then you see the, you know,
09:55the reaction of the person in the aisle, like she's a bleeder. Look at her. She's a bleeder. Oh,
10:02she has to get the wings. Oh, the overnights. Ooh, she's really a bleeder. It's just such weird
10:07personal information that you end up having to share because people you're so surveilled.
10:12So I ended up in a situation where I had a yeast infection and I was in Miami with a
10:19different
10:19boyfriend and I didn't want to go to CVS to buy Monistat. I was literally afraid to treat a medical
10:26condition that is easily treatable over the counter because I did not want to be known as having
10:31anything wrong with my vagina. So I called my girlfriend who always has an answer for everything
10:35and she was like, go get yogurt. And then you're going to just put the yogurt up your vagina.
10:42I trusted her. She always had an answer for everything. She was the one who like the first
10:46person in our group who talked about like the neti pot. So, you know, we all trusted her with
10:49pretty much like every diagnosis. She's so evolved. She's very evolved. So I go, I get Dan and yogurt
10:55vanilla. I get back to the house and I realized that it's not going in. So I can't get the
11:00yogurt
11:00into my vagina. So I call her back. I'm like, it's not going in. It's just slapped on the
11:05outside, which is providing a bit of relief, but I need to get it in there. And she said,
11:10okay, go to McDonald's, go get a straw. One of the big McDonald's straws, then go back to,
11:16you know, his house, slurp it up, slurp up the Danny yogurt and then use it as like an applicator
11:21to get in there. So gross. Yeah. Ultimately I was able to, to get the McDonald's straw. I was able
11:27to get the yogurt in there and I did find some relief. Just get the fucking Monistat, man. Just
11:32like take the risk. Yeah.
11:40In the book, you talk about a lot of really challenging life experiences. One that you
11:47wrote about in the LA times, which is about your rape when you were 19. Sexual assault is very much
11:51in the news right now with the downfall of Harvey Weinstein, but we know that he's not the only one.
11:58He's not the only person, man in a powerful position that's using his success and his stature
12:05to basically do whatever the fuck he wants. Yeah.
12:08What have you been thinking about, you know, with this new servicing?
12:11As a sexual assault survivor, A, I wish they would use the term sexual violence. Half of America
12:16dismissed our now president for his sexual violence as frat boy locker room antics. When
12:23you grab him by the pussy, that's sexual violence. That is sexual assault. When you grab a woman,
12:28you know, who's interviewing by the boob, um, that is sexual violence. When you were using your
12:34position of power to sexually exploit someone, that is, that is a violent act. So many people have
12:41experienced the same thing. The feeling of this is what comes with being a woman in the world and
12:48toughen up kid. This is what it is. And we're basically telling young women, older women, that sexual
12:54violence is, is the same as getting a work physical. It's just a part of the job. And what we're
13:00seeing
13:01right now is a widespread. No, the fuck it isn't. No, it isn't. And I'm, I am calling everyone to
13:06the
13:06carpet. The Harvey Weinstein is, has left a string of victims for decades, but he is, he is not even
13:12the tip of the iceberg. And are we going to see this iceberg fully exposed and the Titanic that has,
13:19that it brought down, or is this going to melt away? Like a lot of other scandals, it's, it's in
13:24the news and then it melts away and everyone else is like, damn it. You didn't get to my abuser.
13:29You didn't get to my boss. You didn't get to my coworker. And then you, people retreat back to the
13:34shadows, you know, and, and what I find so problematic is, you know, when you're looking,
13:42especially to other women as allies in this fight, when something happens and you're, you look around
13:47and you, you lock eyes with a woman and they've seen or heard what just happened and you're waiting
13:54for help. You're waiting for the cavalry to arrive and it doesn't. And what is our responsibility
14:00as witnesses, as allies, as fellow victims? And it's hard because we've all been, you know,
14:07victimized by this act of violence. And there is no one way to react. What I've also seen though,
14:14in every, every field, women who think that if you go to the hotel room, women who think if you
14:21go into the office and you close the door, that you're asking for it. And you're one of those kinds
14:27of women that's willing to do anything to get ahead. And you are not worthy of help.
14:32I'm sure you've watched the clip of Donna Karan on the Daily Mail and, you know, afterwards she
14:36backpedaled and blamed it on the reporter for taking it out of context. But if you watch the
14:40video, it's all very much in context. And I think that what is missing from her, her hideous sort of
14:48reaction to everything that happened was that a lot of women that are in those situations where they're
14:53asked to go to the hotel room, feel like they don't have a choice. And they are worried that
14:57they're going to be excommunicated from an industry that they've dreamed, you know, for years of being
15:02a part of and to prey on people, prey on their dreams and their ambitions. It's not just, it's not
15:10just about the sexual violence. It's literally destroying them, you know, destroying everything
15:15that they, that they've ever wanted in the world.
15:17It validates the violence. It validates the abuse, the motivation, the motivation.
15:22When I heard NeNe Leakes make that joke to the heckler in the audience, I hope your Uber driver
15:27rapes you on the way home. You're not helping. You're not helping. And we need help. We are
15:35screaming for help. I mean, I was raped at work by a stranger. And yet a woman asked, well, what
15:43did
15:43you have on?
15:45I'm so sorry that that happened to you. And I'm grateful to you, as I know millions of
15:51women are for, for telling your story and also for being such an activist and a supporter
15:54on sexual violence. You talk a lot about what an experience it's been helping to raise your
16:01step sons. Tell me about like what that has been like, you know, learning how to, how to
16:06be, you know, an important role model in their lives.
16:08It's incredibly satisfying and gratifying. But, you know, I grew up with all girls. So
16:14like boys were like this mystery. You know what I mean? I only knew my dad as like a grown
16:18ass man. I didn't, you know, I didn't have like intimate knowledge of what teenage boys
16:23go through or, you know, going from the elementary school into the junior high into the high school
16:29arc. I had no idea what that looked like. And here I am trying to guide. I'm like, I'm
16:34winging it. You know what I mean? I'm just like, let's just go by basic common sense. Let's
16:37just, you know, the same lessons that my mom taught us, I think probably apply. Let me just
16:43shoot from the hip. And you'd be surprised that I, I teach them the same things that I
16:50talk about when I'm mentoring, you know, girls about what decency looks like, what compassion
16:55looks like, what help looks like, what an ally ship looks like, while at the same time
17:01being very real that I'm raising privileged black boys who are growing up with extreme
17:07wealth and their white friends who are able to act a certain way and speak to adults in
17:15a certain way and tone and how they're being praised as young leaders and assertive. And
17:22when my children, you know, act privileged, it's aggressive, scary, threatening. And then
17:33I'm sort of parenting out of a fear of imminent death, you know, raising kids in Florida, which
17:39is an open carry state and a stand your ground state where we've seen a, you know, a teenage
17:45child, you know, murdered, you know, holding some Skittles and an iced tea. That is terrifying.
17:53You know, recently there was this drive by dunk challenge where the kids, if you know, there
17:58was a court out in front of someone's house, they would like drive by, get out of the car
18:01and like dunk, you know, at someone's house. And I'm, you know, following the kids on Snapchat
18:05and, and I see that they're doing the challenge. And when I get home, like, I'm immediately gripped
18:11with the panic and terror. I'm like, you're on someone's private property, they can kill
18:16you. And it's a, it's a prank everybody's doing, you know, dunking on somebody's home
18:20court in our, on our street. I'm like, you don't walk on anyone's private property, you
18:25walk in the street, you know, you make sure your hands are out of your pockets. And I talk
18:29about in the book how I had to instruct them how to walk the dog so that all of their
18:34fingers
18:34are splayed and showing so it doesn't look like they're concealing anything. But at the end
18:40of the day, you know, we time and time and time and time again, across the country, sometimes
18:44private citizens, sometimes it's state sanctioned violence, you know, police brutality, people
18:50are getting away with murdering black people. And their, their line of defense was, I feared
18:56for my life when there was when that when the person is unarmed, when the person was not
19:00lunging for them, the only thing that they feared was blackness. So how do you raise
19:07confident, smart, compassionate, empathetic kids when they can be murdered for existing?
19:17And that is what I struggle with daily. You know, how much is I'm being overprotective?
19:23How much is, is, is it I'm not doing enough?
19:27Do they get it? Do they think that you're being like overbearing?
19:30I don't think they got it until when my husband moved to the Bulls, and we put them in school
19:35in Chicago. They got it. In Chicago, it was very clear because the segregation in our neighborhood
19:41was very, very, it's more distinct. And people didn't know them like they knew them in Miami.
19:46So if they weren't physically standing next to my husband, they were just teenagers in
19:51the Gold Coast, black bodies in white spaces. And they can easily see the reaction. They could
19:57see the reaction that Zion, who, you know, was nine at the time, and oh, he's such a cute
20:02little boy. And they saw as Zion shot up throughout the school year, it went from he's so cute to
20:09clutch the purse. And then by the time they're walking to McDonald's, the fear in the neighbor's
20:14eyes, the crossing of the street of our neighbors, they could see it. It hit them in the face. And
20:20all
20:21the things that I'd been saying in Miami, it was happening in Chicago. And now that they're back
20:26in school in Miami, the overriding thing that keeps being said by their teachers, by their coaches,
20:34they have matured in a way that I've never seen kids in such a short amount of time mature. And
20:41their level of compassion, their level of taking time to like educate their classmates, their tolerance
20:49for racism, sexism, homophobia is zero. And it's like, because you're talking, you're preaching,
20:55you don't know if they're listening, if they're going to apply it, you know, they're saying all
20:59the right things. You don't know if you've got an Eddie Haskell on your hands, and then they go to
21:02school, and they're like, you know, nuts. But hearing from their teachers, hearing from their
21:06coaches, that what we're actually teaching in our home, when we talk about affirmative consent,
21:13and what that actually looks like, and no, you may not see it in the movies or on TV, but
21:18this is what
21:19it's supposed to look like, you don't do anything. Each step, you need a verbal yes or no. And that
21:27is
21:27going to shape the boundary with the people that you're dating. And if it's a girl worth having, she's
21:33going to appreciate, you know, you taking the time to make sure that she feels safe every step of the
21:38way. And just know that just because you're not necessarily seeing that on TV, you know, or in movies or
21:44whatever, doesn't mean what I'm saying is wrong. This is the safest thing for you and for her. And
21:51there's nothing more romantic than both people being super comfortable every step of the way.
21:57And that experience is something you're both going to remember for the rest of your life. And just know
22:02that you're always going to be on the right side of history. If you listen to the girls and young
22:08women that you are, you know, interested in, if you follow their lead, and if you ask every step of
22:14the way, what they're actually comfortable with, that is the way to go. Communication.
22:18You sound like a great mama.
22:19I'm winging it, but I'm hoping I'm saying all the right things and just common sense, reasonable.
22:24I think that's all you can do is, you know, be an observant person in the world and really try
22:29to
22:29translate that, the part in your book about the fact that you never really thought you wanted to
22:34have children until you met your current husband, and that you actually lost count of the number of
22:39miscarriages you'd had. And I can totally relate to that. And I'm really sorry that you had to go
22:44through that. It sucks. How do you feel that having gone through that and just learning about
22:50the process and has it brought you and your husband closer?
22:54By the time we went into it, we had watched so many of our friends go through it and only
22:59half
23:00survived as, you know, married people are committed, you know, in a committed version.
23:04It puts you to the test. It really does.
23:05Yeah. And so we saw what went wrong and we saw in the couples, you know, that were still together,
23:10what went right. And so and luckily, we have a group that is just painfully honest, and they
23:15they want people to make it, you know, thank God. And so they could we kind of went into it
23:20knowing
23:20where it could go south. And so when my hormones, because I've been injecting them into my body,
23:27you know, have me so much fun, isn't it?
23:30Yeah, laugh crying, you know, bruises, it's just great. And all of the misconceptions about what
23:35causes fertility issues. You know, the second that the People magazine excerpt came out,
23:41and I'm looking at the comments, which I generally don't, but I was curious. And the first comment I
23:47read, you know, because they're talking about why I might be infertile. This guy says, because all
23:53those dicks. I was like, all those dicks. I'm like, first of all, how do you know how many dicks
23:57I've
23:57had? And second of all, what is the threshold of like, how is it like six dicks? Is it 28
24:02dicks?
24:03Is it 45? Is there a medical report that we don't know about? Like that where it says like,
24:07this many dicks leads to infertility. And I was like, if it was so many dicks, then you wouldn't
24:12be here because your mama had a lot of dicks. You know, that's what that's what I wanted to say.
24:16Of course, I didn't want to end up on the shade room in the comment section called comment creeping.
24:20But then you know, the next one was like, well, the bitch is almost 50. And then somebody was like,
24:23well, I heard she didn't want to get fat by having, you know, and it's just like you read all
24:30of it. Well, she put her she prioritized her career. And that's what happens. And I realized
24:35in the room in the waiting room at every and I've been at IVF clinics across the country,
24:40there is a range in age from 20s to late 40s. So the idea that this is a an older
24:48career woman's
24:49penance, you know, is false, you know, infertility can affect anyone for all sorts of reasons. But
24:58there's so much shame and mystery and guilt and feelings of like, you're in the secret society
25:04of defective women. It's like everyone's on the scale on the spectrum of fertility. And it fluctuates
25:12for a lot of reasons through age through hormones through diet through environmental, you know,
25:16genetics, everything. And it's such a mystery in so many ways. And I think there's, you become so
25:22obsessed with all of the information, all the data, all the chat rooms, it can be consuming. But I
25:28really hope that you know, you and your family really end up getting what you want.
25:31Well, I always say it's like, I have an A life, like, I had a pretty awesome life. If we
25:38add another
25:38human being, that's just an A plus. But my life is this, like, I feel good. And I feel happy.
25:45This is a, this was a trying, emotionally, physically, spiritually, financially trying
25:52few years. And that first miscarriage was catastrophic and just earth shattering because
26:02we told people and we were so excited. The first one's always a killer. And, but then, you know,
26:10once I realized I had adenomyosis, which had been misdiagnosed for the first few years,
26:15that my body was like, yeah, no, we're totally getting pregnant. But the adenomyosis was literally
26:20like smothering the embryo as it was trying to grow, which is why I had so many very early,
26:25you know, miscarriages. But just even having an answer like, oh, adenomyosis. Okay, this explains
26:33my nine day periods. This explains the low ovarian function. This explains so much, but just
26:40without a proper diagnosis, you start blaming yourself, you do start looking into your past.
26:46And someone I had spoke to someone who was like, I think it's the psychological trauma of the rape,
26:52which really kind of screwed me up that I was like, I mean, obviously, you know, being raped,
26:58it's like, it's like that person died on that, you know, floor at Payless. And the person that emerged,
27:04I always thought was, you know, a better version. But now I'm this, there's a suggestion that that
27:10better version is forever damaged. And, and, and the rapist is the reason why I'll never like,
27:16how much more does this motherfucker want to take from my life? But this, you know, or depression can,
27:22can lead to endometriosis. And it's like, oh, my, oh, my God, how much healing do I have to,
27:28has to take place? Or when people just say, oh, just take off a year. Um, the way my prenup
27:35is set
27:36up, which is also in the book, um, I don't have that option, nor do most women who are paying
27:40for
27:41this, um, have that option to just, you know, rest for a year. What? Or the people who actually
27:46tell me, you know, or told me, you know, you should eat more Brazil nuts. Oh, my God, more Brazil
27:51nuts and some dried pineapples really good, too. That's the secret. And I'm just like, fuck you.
27:56Fuck you and your dried pineapple. I should take Geritol. Um, do you know how much Geritol
28:01I was taking at one point? Um. What is that for? I just know it's like a sort of, like
28:05a drug for
28:06older people. Mm-hmm. Apparently, some old wives' tale, but I was taking it religiously. Maybe I
28:12should take it, too. You know, well, there's no child, so I can't, you know. Um. Yet. Yet. Yet. It's,
28:20it's, she's coming. He's coming. He's, I can feel them floating around. It's all about timing.
28:24It's all about timing. Yeah. It's all about timing.
28:33Being Mary Jane is, it's going to be concluding, which is, you know, bittersweet. What do you
28:38think that you learned from, from playing Mary Jane?
28:41I learned to have a lot more patience and compassion for imperfect people. I learned to
28:46recognize, you know, that I am, you know, painfully imperfect myself. And because so many people
28:51thought I was writing Mary Jane based on my own life, they gave me a lot more compassion
28:58that I had before the character. And I tried to just pay that forward to other people that
29:03I may have cut off or judged harshly or didn't allow for personal evolution. And just a different
29:12idea of what happy, someone's version of happily ever after can look like. So as we're, as we're
29:18throwing out ideas for this two hour finale, about what is Mary Jane's happily ever after?
29:23And what does that look like? We're having some epic battles. Like we all have an idea
29:28about how Mary Jane should ride off into the sunset. I think it's going to be really interesting.
29:33I hope it doesn't end up like the Sopranos finale where people are like, what the hell?
29:37Journey? Do you have a little Journey song?
29:40Well, there's always time for Journey. Maybe, you know, Night Ranger. I'm not sure.
29:45Sister Christian, all the time has come.
29:49And you know that you're the only one to say, okay.
29:57Should we conclude there?
29:58I think, yeah.
29:59That was amazing.
30:00Yay!
30:01Thank you for indulging me. No one ever knows my 80s random hits.
30:04A little karaoke on style. Thank you, Gabrielle.
30:07You're welcome.
30:08And congratulations on, we're going to need more wine. It's incredible. Everyone go out
30:12and get it.
30:12And I appreciate you guys for the support.
30:14We love you.
30:19I hope you're inspired after hearing Gabrielle's story. For even more Unstyled extras, check out
30:24Refinery29 or my Instagram at Christine Barbrick. You can also join the conversation using the
30:30hashtag Unstyled across your social media. And of course, we'd be infinitely
30:34grateful if you'd please subscribe to Unstyled on Apple Podcasts and rate us while you're
30:39there. You can head to Refinery29.com to find this episode and more, and make sure to sign
30:45up for our exclusive Unstyled newsletter, delivered straight to your inbox every week.
30:49Our show today was executive produced by Sarah Bernard, associate produced by Rebecca Easley,
30:55and edited by Priscilla Mena. Copy support was provided by Tommy Fitzpatrick. Our theme music
31:01today is by the artist Koff, and we recorded Unstyled with Paul Ruist at Argo Studios.
31:07We'll see you back here next Monday for a conversation with Alexa Chung on the life of
31:11the ultimate fashion outsider insider. And stay tuned for a special bonus episode with Refinery29's
31:17very own chief content officer, Amy Emmerich, and the host and creator of Refinery29's Strong
31:23Opinions loosely held podcast, Elisa Kreisinger, also known as Pop Culture Pirate. We'll be talking
31:29about broadcasting the revolution for women to see, feel, and claim their power.