- 6 minutes ago
Busy Philipps has no problem putting it all out there; if you follow her on social media, this shouldn't come as a surprise. With the release of her memoir, This Will Only Hurt A Little, and a talk show premiering on the small screen later this month, Busy's taking her unfiltered self from her phone to your TV and bookshelves â and showing us all how to be real.
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00:01Welcome to Unstyled. I'm your host, Christine Barbrick, co-founder and global editor-in-chief
00:06of Refinery29. Each week, I invite a notable person to come in and talk with us as we explore
00:12the funny, inspiring, sometimes heartbreaking tales of life, work, and love, as told through
00:19the things that we wear. A few years ago, Busy Phillips was a working actor, a solid comedian
00:33and supporting star, who often popped up on screen, but rarely front and center. A lot of us knew her
00:39from her roles on such beloved series as Freaks and Geeks, Dawson's Creek, or Cougar Town. But today,
00:45many more people know her, just for being herself. And we're pretty sure that by this time next month,
00:51everyone will know and love her. She makes it pretty hard not to. Busy is in the midst of a
00:57spectacular second act. After working on screen for 20 years, building a healthy, if not huge,
01:04following, she suddenly emerged in 2017 as the breakout superstar of Instagram stories.
01:10It wasn't that her videos and images were so exceptionally curated. It was the opposite,
01:15Busy was radically authentic, on a platform where everyone, especially celebrities,
01:21show only their prettiest pictures and heavily edited versions of their lives.
01:26Busy was, well, normal. She chatted to fans while sitting in her car, waiting to pick up her kids
01:33from school. She grammed from the supermarket or from her own bed, usually with no makeup and always
01:39with no filter. And somehow, no matter how mundane the topic, she was never boring. On the contrary,
01:46as the New Yorker recently put it, Busy had transformed her everyday life into an addictive sitcom,
01:52and millions were tuning in. Busy had changed the game for herself by being herself. Her success on
01:59Instagram first led to a huge book deal. As you've probably seen on every best of list this month,
02:04her memoir, This Will Only Hurt a Little, comes out October 16th. Two weeks later, on October 28th,
02:11Busy will launch yet another massive project, her own talk show, Busy Tonight. No doubt,
02:17Busy is a full-time, big-time star these days. But she's still there on Instagram every day,
02:23inviting us into her sweaty morning workouts or talking about getting her moles checked.
02:27Whether she knows it or not, Busy is busting the myth of celebrity and shattering those old
02:33archetypes. Call her an actor, an influencer, a writer, or a mom. She's all those things,
02:39and a whole lot more. Busy is, in essence, a whole new breed of icon.
02:52Busy Phillips, it is such a pleasure to have you on Unstyled today.
02:56Thanks for having me.
02:57You have so much going on.
02:58It's a lot.
02:59We have a lot to talk about.
03:00Okay, let's get into it.
03:01Can we talk about the book?
03:02Yes.
03:03So the book comes out on October 16th. This Will Only Hurt a Little.
03:07So it was a blind book deal. The publisher at Touchstone, Lauren Spiegel, reached out because
03:14she was a big fan of my Instagram and my Instagram stories and me as an actor. She had really
03:19loved
03:19me on Dawson's Creek. And she just said, I just feel like you have a book in you. I watch
03:24your
03:24Instagram every day. I just know that you have a book in you. And I've always been a writer. It
03:29was something that I had always wanted to do. I had tried to sell a book when I was in
03:34my mid-20s
03:34of essays. And the book agent that I brought it to was very uninterested in the things I wanted to
03:41write about. Because I get into a lot of sort of deeper things in the book than just like fun,
03:49gossipy Hollywood stories, which was, I guess, well, almost 15 years ago when I initially had
03:54been writing some of this stuff. That was kind of of the time. That was what they were looking for
04:00from someone like me writing a book. Yeah, something that's just light and fun. And also,
04:05I'm very glad that I didn't write a book at age 25. You know what I mean? I think I'm
04:09glad that I
04:10had a little bit more life experience to put into it. It feels like it definitely reads like you've
04:16been working on it for a really long time. It's so interesting that this is coming out around the
04:20same time as your talk show. I know. Busy tonight. Well, that was very unplanned. Was it? Yeah. Have
04:26you had your chart done recently or something? I bet there's something like enormous happening.
04:30some kind of big sort of planetary transit in your chart. Because I was also like, you know,
04:36I follow you on Instagram. And I have to say there's something that kind of just happened with
04:41you on social probably like two years ago. Yes, that's right. Yeah, it was like around two years
04:47ago. And I remember even one of your Insta stories. You probably remember it. Do you remember you and
04:53Michelle Williams came home to your house one night and there was like an animal outside? Yes. The
05:00whole thing. And I was riveted by it. I was literally riveted by it. I watched it like
05:04and, you know, Michelle wasn't really in it. But you were just like, this is a serious,
05:09serious business tonight. We have to really identify like what sort of what sort of like
05:13living thing lurking outside of the windows. And I just remember thinking like, she is so
05:19masterful of this because who because anybody else would do that. It wouldn't really be that funny.
05:23It would just be sort of maybe a little suspenseful. But you may really I think that there is sort
05:29of an artistry to telling a story in that format. It just comes so naturally to you. Thank you. Well,
05:35yeah, no, I think that what you're saying is correct. And that's very kind of you to say about
05:39me. But I think that there's obviously mastery in telling any stories. And I think a lot of times
05:44people look at social media and they think, well, how do you you know, because we've certainly seen
05:50examples of people where you're like, oh, that does not resonate or like that person does not
05:55understand that is not relatable. You know what I mean? And some certain people like you can either
06:01write in your own voice or you can't you either like sort of intrinsically understand how to
06:05translate that to the page or you or you don't. And I think the same is true with social media.
06:10I
06:11think it's a very, very similar skill set. Like you either. That's why I think stand ups are really
06:16good at social media, obviously. Some of them. Some of them. Yeah, I would say some of them. I
06:22mean, do you think that that was sort of like the beginning of sort of getting to this point where
06:25you're being much more public and revealing so many more dimensions of who you are, not just an
06:31actor? Yeah. Well, I wonder if it's a thing that sort of happens to women as they reach my age
06:38anyway, like this kind of molting. You're still in your 30s. I am. I know. But I mean,
06:42but I'm just saying, like, I don't want to hear it. I'm I think that when you get into sort
06:47of your
06:49later 30s and I had, you know, and I had two kids and I had had this big TV show
06:54that ended
06:54and I felt like I was just at a career crossroads and then Donald Trump won the election. And I
06:59was
06:59like, you know what? Fuck this. I'm just going to like I'm molting like I'm just going to let it
07:04all
07:04go. Any artifice of like what I thought I should be, what people fucking wanted me to be. I don't
07:10want
07:10to do it anymore. I'm done. But, you know, and then and then that coincided with the start of
07:17Instagram stories. So it was just real time me putting it out there's a platform for you to be
07:22able to just like be spontaneous and just like roll with it. Yeah, exactly. And and the truth is,
07:28I always have loved telling stories and weird things happen to me. You know, like I'm just one
07:34of those people like I have the spirit that collects strange things like animals having
07:41really rough sex on my balcony. That's right. They were having sex. The raccoons were having
07:47sex. And then I caught them and they looked at me with shame. Did they really? Yes. I don't
07:52remember that part. They look up and you just their little eyes and they're just like looking
07:56at me. Didn't Michelle leave at some point during the during? She was like, she's like,
08:00I gotta go. I remember thinking that was really funny. She was just like she didn't. It was very
08:06unceremonious. She was just like, see ya. I know. Exactly. That was really funny. But you were like,
08:11no, I'm committed. I am going to I am going to document all of this. And then and then truly
08:16we
08:16had a raccoon family that lived in our yard for a while. I mean, not the worst thing. They were
08:20pretty cute. Yeah. I mean, adorable. So back to the book, I think there's just so much material in
08:27there that just makes me love you even more. And I'm sure it really makes a lot of other people
08:32feel
08:32validated, you know, and just talking about, you know, your marriage and also talking about growing
08:38up with your sister, which I thought was like, I mean, I have an older sister and I really, really
08:42related to the stories that you told. And I kind of have less issue with my sisters and more with
08:48my
08:48parents for not like managing it better. Right. Like I just felt like it was just like if I
08:53couldn't defend myself, it was my problem and nobody else's. So I think that and my sister and
09:00I are close now. Yeah. But she feels a lot of guilt. Yeah. About like being in that kind of
09:06environment and not protecting me more. My sister had a hard time with this book and it was actually
09:13surprising to me. Really? Yeah. Well, I don't know. I thought that she would get it because I
09:18love her so much and we are so close now that I thought she would see the love that I
09:25felt like
09:26I was writing about it with and our relationship and how hard our childhood was together. And she
09:33just felt like the hurt part of it. And that was really tough for me. I will say this, like
09:39I do feel
09:40like I'm hard on a lot of people in this book, but I'm also I do really believe that I'm
09:45hardest on
09:46myself. And I feel like I own a lot of my own bullshit and I take a lot of responsibility
09:53for it.
09:54And, you know, the kind of like reckoning thing that you have to do when you put something like
10:00this into the world is you have to be OK with the fact that you're not going to get the
10:04response
10:04you want from everybody that you are thinking that you want like a certain response from. And not
10:10everyone's going to like what you have to say, but if it's your and I can honestly say I was
10:16speaking
10:16my truth throughout the entire book. So, you know, Mark, my husband, keeps reminding me because I do
10:23have moments where I'm like, why did I do this? This is this is too vulnerable. I'm I'm exposing
10:29myself, but I'm exposing other people in a way that maybe they're not going to be OK with. And he
10:34just
10:35keeps saying like this is this has value as a whole. And like things can get extrapolated in
10:41ways that you're not in control of because of the current world that we live in. But you just have
10:47to have the you know, you have to be steadfast in that this was what you wanted to put into
10:53the world.
10:54And it was it was it was what I wanted to put in the world. And it was the right
10:57time. I feel like you
10:59can't really deny when especially if you are a writer and you're certainly a writer. I think that
11:04it's just sort of beyond your control. It's like if you're really listening to yourself and you're
11:08really sort of like in your life and you're engaged in, you know, who you are, I think you
11:15have to write it and you have to kind of decide if you want to put it out there. And,
11:19you know,
11:19I struggle with that a lot, too, because I write a lot about my own life and and my own
11:23experiences.
11:24I read what you were writing about, like becoming a mother and how like thinking about how you're going to
11:30include or not include that. Right. I mean, I wrote for a bit about like what it was like to
11:35not
11:36be able to have a baby. And I think that that was really just liberating for me because I felt
11:42so
11:42much shame about it and just also so conflicted because, you know, the company was doing really
11:47well. And and there was a lot of things to be grateful for in my life. My husband's wonderful.
11:52And, you know, I have incredible friends. But, you know, it was something that just never went away.
11:57I knew that it was like I mean, I think there were some people in my life that were like,
12:00I think it's
12:00time to like move on from this. But I just wouldn't. And that's like difficult. And now it's like sort
12:06of
12:06it is a really interesting shift to be. I mean, I've talked about this a little bit publicly, but I
12:12was
12:12really private about the pregnancy up until like six and a half months because I was just so afraid
12:17something bad was going to happen. And I was like literally felt like if it did, you know, and obviously
12:22we
12:22have to, you know, be prepared for anything. But I was like, I will be I will not be able
12:27to
12:27recover, you know. And so now it's been like a transition of like really believing like I am
12:32going to be a mother and I am going to have a kid, you know, and I know it's exciting.
12:37And you
12:37really start to think about it. I don't know if you did when you were having your kids, you were
12:40younger. But, you know, I really think about like the kind of parent I want to be to her and
12:45also
12:46just like the shit that I had to go through when I was a kid. And what really feels what
12:51really
12:51felt difficult for me and hard to overcome. You know, we all have like three of those things that
12:56we carry with us. And our husbands, if they're great husbands, are always like, you really need
12:59to get over that. You really, really need to get over that. And it's going to be OK. And that
13:04doesn't
13:05define you. And I think that those are the kinds of things that I'm just excited about her teaching
13:10me. Yeah, it's a really motherhood is an intense journey for a couple reasons. But one of the reasons
13:18and it was interesting hearing you talk about your own childhood and how you're with your
13:21sister and how you think about your parents responsibility and all that, because I'd be
13:26curious to see if you have more than one kid, how you then feel about their interactions and
13:33your parents involvement in your life, because becoming a parent and, you know, my daughter
13:38Birdie is so similar to my sister that they have the same sort of temperament and it's just
13:46inherent in her. And I always thought it was like my parents had kind of done, you know,
13:51like maybe it was like up to them to curb some of her stuff. And now I see it with
13:56my
13:56kid and I'm like, oh, no, she just is. This is like an inherent thing that she's got. This
14:01is not nurture at all. This is like straight up nature. And it made me like she's got the
14:08gene. Oh, she's got the gene. Oh, she's got it. She's got that gene. Yeah, she does. And
14:12it's really interesting. I was younger when I had Birdie. I was I had just turned 29.
14:19Yeah, I had just turned 29 when I had Birdie. Did you feel scared? I mean, not that that's
14:23like so young to be having a kid, but like, were you married yet? Yeah. Okay. In terms
14:29of the rest of the country, it's not young at all. In terms of like, I feel like Los
14:33Angeles, especially and New York, like I was the youngest mom in Birdie's preschool, like
14:38by far, you know, when she went to preschool, I was 31 years old and people were like, oh,
14:43you're a baby. Did you feel insecure? I did feel insecure. I felt horribly insecure about
14:49that. And who helped you? Michelle helped me. She was a very young mom. She had her my
14:53Michelle Williams, who's like one of my best friends for a million years. She had her baby
14:59when she was like 20. I feel like she was 24. And she had Matilda. Yeah, that's probably
15:04right. So she helped me and two of my best friends from high school had both had
15:08kids. And Michelle had had her baby. So they were really helpful for me because they were
15:13all like sort of we were all the same age, obviously. And they they had done it before
15:17I had. But in L.A., Mark's writing partner, Abby, is, yeah, like nine years older than
15:22me. And she had a daughter. And so she was helpful because she kind of helped me navigate
15:30like the L.A. motherhood thing. And then I had a really close friend that I met in prenatal
15:35yoga. Our babies were born a few weeks apart and we became really close, like new mom baby
15:40friends, which is important, like to have somebody that's going through the exact same thing with
15:44you at the exact same time. You know, I had postpartum anxiety with Birdie and I was about
15:52like what made you anxious. Well, it's hormonal part of it. It's like a postpartum depression,
15:58but it's like a pretty intense anxiety disorder. And everything made made terrified me. But you had
16:05anxiety before you had the baby. Yeah. But it was really compounded and got sort of spun out of
16:12control. If you if you do just my only advice, I don't have a ton of advice for people that
16:18are
16:18going to become parents because there's no if I could give it if somebody could give it,
16:23they would give it. You can't you have you're just going to go through it and it'll be what
16:27it is to you and your husband. You know, everyone finds their own way. But with the anxiety thing,
16:33if you're really feeling like spin it, you're spinning out, you need to like get control of
16:37it because I let it just go for far too long. And I was it was like pulling over on
16:42the side
16:42of the road, like unable to drive, like cry was Birdie in the car with you. She's like,
16:47oh, she's like this. I mean, I mean, I mean, honestly, though, when I see relationships like
16:56that between mothers and daughters, like there is a bit of a role reversal sometimes. I don't know.
17:01I just find it so reassuring in some way. I think as I get older, I've realized that,
17:08you know, the mentorship and sort of like learning from people comes from it doesn't just come from
17:14people that are older and more experienced. It comes from everywhere. And I think that the
17:19beautiful thing about having kids is that, you know, they make you vulnerable. At least I think
17:24they do. Oh, I think cracked me open. I'm like, yeah, I've been cracked open by my children.
17:31Bernie does a funny thing now. She's she's my 10 year old. And she'll that must be a fun age.
17:36It's wild. I'm obsessed with her. She is so hard, but she is so worth it.
17:43Really? Why is she hard? She just she just like defiant. She's got it. She's she's tricky. We you
17:50never know what's going to like set her off like she could. She's got a real switch. And if the
17:56switch
17:56goes off, you're just like, take cover and shelter because Birdie is going to get she going to throw
18:02things or something or she's just like can be she just has like a temper and she she
18:08doesn't she never lashes out at her little sister. Thank God. That's nice. I know she
18:13loves her baby sister, but she you know, like she's told me she hates me. Hate you. I hate
18:20you. You're the worst. And I'm like, OK, all right. All right. Here we go. Yes. Yes. Bring
18:26it. So sorry you feel that way. I remember having very similar feelings toward my mother when I
18:30was little. That's it doesn't make you feel good inside. I'm really sorry to hear that
18:35you're feeling that way right now. My mom and I laugh about this one scene when I she
18:39made me go to my room and I don't know how old I was, but for whatever reason, I took
18:44the dresser and I was like shaking it like this. I was like really like because I had
18:47like such physical rage in that moment. And I was like, I hate you. I hate you. I hate
18:51you. And she came in and really calmly and she was like, what did you say? And I was like
18:54nothing. And I remember just being like I didn't say anything. Yeah. Like to actually say
18:59that's my mother would have been like high crime. But what would have been the
19:02punishment? Oh, I mean, I mean, this is the 70s. There was like spanked you with a
19:08wooden spoon. OK, right. I mean, literally my husband's mom also had a wooden spoon,
19:13which but by the way, we were just talking. We were talking about it. Not not too long
19:17ago. And she's like, I never used it. Not one time on either boy. But it was the threat
19:21of the wooden spoon that like kept them in line. I mean, where did the wooden spoon come
19:25from? Who knows? I mean, stirring the soup. I know. I know. But I'm going to whack you.
19:30I know. Literally. But I mean, you can't obviously you can't threaten your children
19:35with physical violence anymore. We know better. So but so a little bit the problem becomes
19:41what is the punishment that would fit the crime? Birdie's not afraid of me. Well, I'm afraid
19:47of me. You talk about this in the book, too. Actually, no, it was in it was in a parenting
19:51article that was really that article was amazing. You were just so out there and honest. And
19:58I really got so much out of it. I have to thank you for it. And it was only like
20:01this
20:01year. It was parenting magazine. Yeah, it's parenting magazine. But you talked a lot about
20:05the fact that, you know, you and Mark suck at discipline that you're really just like
20:09and then flailing, you know, that you said you use the word fun. You know what I did this
20:13week? So Birdie Birdie is 10. She does have a phone because her cousin got one when she was
20:1710. And then it just became this whole thing. So we got her. You have no limits on screen
20:21time either. We don't. Except I will say I say we don't except except we do. Do you
20:27know what I mean? Like I say we don't because I'm not I'm not hard and fast like today. You
20:32know, like you get I have friends who are definitely like you get 30 minutes every other day or you
20:38get this, you know, we a lot to keep a lot for me. I can't. We both work. Our nanny
20:44is
20:44wonderful. But like I cannot ask her to police that kind of thing when I'm not there. You know
20:51what I mean? I don't. Yeah. So when I say we don't have I just mean we don't have any
20:54fast and hard rules about screen time. And we it's like a case by case basis with our
21:00kids, you know, when they're watching too much TV because they start turning into little
21:04zombies. So yeah. Yeah. So we just we don't allow them to watch. So, you know, we would
21:11much rather we suggest other activities. We do things that girls prefer to do an art activity
21:16with me. But then it's like when I'm working or roll like I have to like take do some interviews
21:22or do calls. You bet Spongebob is going on like one hundred percent. And Birdie can watch Fuller
21:28House or whatever. You know, that's that the follow up. Yeah. I'm looking at Christine. You're
21:34like, what is that? People can't see I'm like Fuller House. I'm like I'm like she's wrong. It's
21:39Full House. They rebooted it and it's Fuller House. But yeah. But with the discipline thing with
21:45our girls, it is really tough because, you know, Birdie doesn't really respond well to
21:50any. I mean, she's just like, OK, fine. Take it away. But she did. We got into a big
21:55fight this past weekend or last Saturday and she did that. I hate you. She was being really,
22:01really, really mean to me. And I said, does that hurt your feelings? Yes. And I and and
22:07I have to I would feel a little wounded by that, too. I really want my kid to to like
22:12adore
22:12me. And then you have to remember that you're not you're not peers. Yeah. Like
22:17you can't like it's really, really hard. It's really hard to not be wounded because
22:22you don't want to do that to them either. Like they're you know. But I was like, that's
22:26it, girl. You lost your phone. You lost it. And I I went too far because you want to
22:31give punishments that you can. That's part of the thing that you can follow through
22:34on. And I went too far at first. I was like forever. You're never getting your phone
22:39back until you learn how to behave and not tell your mother that you hate her and
22:43I'm the worst person in the world or whatever. And what did she say? She was
22:48really upset about losing her phone because she now uses it. She has her best
22:52friend. They don't go to school together and another friend that doesn't go to
22:55school. So they are allowed to FaceTime each other after school, which is cute.
23:00And then she FaceTimes her cousins and FaceTimes her grandparents. And so she really
23:05likes that connection. And I get it because I'm a person that loves my phone. I love
23:09talking to people on the phone. Well, anyway, she lost her phone for almost a
23:12week. I gave it back to her right before I left yesterday because I thought I
23:16didn't want to leave my husband without having that crutch, the parenting crutch of
23:20her being able to have her phone. So I gave it back to her. But she was it really
23:24did. She I mean, her behavior changed like she was doing really well. That's
23:28great. Yeah. Triumph. Triumph. A small one.
23:44The Unstyled podcast is made possible by Refinery29 and Aerie, your body positive go
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24:04in your own style.
24:21Let's talk about relationships because also in that parenting article, I really, really
24:26loved that you talked about like how tough it was in the beginning. Yeah. With you and
24:30Mark. And I still feel like there is such a stigma around especially in Hollywood
24:36talking about like challenges, you know, the natural sort of very organic challenges
24:40that people go through. Marriage is hard. Relationships are hard. Friendships are hard
24:44too. But I think that because marriage is such a it's such a legal commitment and it's
24:50like, you know, there is like and I think all of us kind of that are married think about
24:54those like vows and promises that you made. I remember when I got married, I was like when
24:59I was really nervous about saying the vows because they're so old fashioned and they
25:03also feel really unrealistic. You know, it's like I have no idea how I'm going to feel
25:06in 30 years to make this promise just seems like, you know, not so smart. But I felt fine
25:12about it. But I do think that it's really important that someone like you, you know,
25:17or Jennifer Aniston or anybody, you know, is able to talk about just like how hard it
25:21is to be in a relationship sometimes and how I think that you referencing that that quote
25:26from Blythe Danner about, you know, we were never we never fell out of love with each
25:31other at the same time. And I think that that's completely true. Or the other famous
25:37quote was like, we just never got divorced. Right. That's why we're still married. Who
25:40said that? I don't know, but that's genius. Yeah. We just never got divorced. And and I
25:45was like, OK, you know, they never got around to it. Yeah. But tell us about a little bit
25:49about like what you mentioned in that article, because it was really around having your
25:53daughter and then wanting to have cricket, your second daughter. Yes. It's interesting
25:57because there's also the expression you can't teach a new dog, an old dog, new tricks. Right.
26:01An old dog, new tricks. But you can't teach a new dog. You can't. You definitely can't
26:06teach a new dog. But Mark is a really interesting dog. I guess I just know my husband, Mark, is
26:12really an interesting person. It was tough in our in our marriage after we had Birdie. I
26:20felt very isolated and alone. And I think he felt like he didn't know where his place
26:26was or what he was supposed to be doing. And so he just kind of stepped back and didn't
26:31really do much, which I think happens a lot. After a baby comes. After a baby comes. I'm
26:36really genuinely never surprised when I hear anyone who's got a child under the age of two
26:42that's getting divorced. I'm never shocked. I'm always like, oh, yeah. Well, yeah, that's
26:48it's the worst time for a marriage. It's almost impossible. First of all, you're navigating
26:54this thing that neither one of you knows how to do. Like that's nearly impossible, even
26:58though we all do it. Yeah. And there's probably resentment, too, about like who's doing more
27:03and guilt. I mean, I think the part of the struggle has to do with like redefining gender
27:09roles and where we are currently societally and what our expectations are as women who are
27:16working, who are having children and who've been told that maybe we're able to have it
27:21all. But then you get it all and you're like, wait, this fucking sucks. What are you talking
27:25about? I can't have it all when I have it all like when I'm when I'm like nailing it with
27:28my kid. I've like missed five emails when I'm like really nailing it with work. Like I missed
27:33her first steps. Like I can't I feel terrible and riddled with guilt constantly. And then this
27:39guy's like waking up early on Sundays to go watch fucking football. What are you talking
27:43about? Like I can't do this. And I had a really, really hard time. And Mark and I had
27:52a few we've had a few what I call like, you know, like our come to Jesus moments where
27:56I'm like, OK, when Birdie was about six months old, I think I just said, I can't I can't
28:02do this anymore. I'm going to have to just peace out. I'd rather be alone and not expect
28:06anything than be together and expect something I'm not getting.
28:09Well, it's also work. It's also work to have to like be mentally dealing with all
28:14of that, too. So, I mean, I definitely think that that would feel like an option.
28:18Right. Yeah. And he was like as hard as it would be. I can I can figure this out.
28:23Like, let me try to figure this out. OK. So then he, you know, slowly kind of became
28:28more involved. But, you know, we just kind of fell into. Yeah. It just our marriage was
28:35just like I felt very alone a lot in our marriage in the early childhood child rearing
28:41years. That's unusual. I don't think it is either. I don't think it is, which is why
28:45I feel OK talking about it. And Mark, you know, is obviously OK with me talking about
28:50it. And then when I wanted to have cricket, he his response was basically like, yeah,
28:56all right. But you know what? It was so hard with Birdie. So if you want that this it's all
29:00on you, like higher. At that point, I was on Cougar Town. So I was like making plenty
29:04of money, you know, like how to study a gig. He was like, hire whoever you need to help
29:09you. Like, but don't expect me. Basically, he was like, I don't want I don't want any
29:13expectations. Yes. Like I'll I'll take care. Like he was so funny, too, like in retrospect,
29:18because he's so obsessed with cricket, as we all are. The entire family like rallies around
29:23her and just like. Why do you think that is? Because she's the baby. I think babies are
29:28just. Is she six? How old is she? She's five. She's five. OK. And she's so cute. She is
29:33really cute. I mean, both your kids are really, really cute. But she has magical thinking in
29:39a way that Birdie never did. Birdie is so sharp and so smart and skeptical. And like literally
29:46at age three was saying things like our cat passed away when Birdie was three. And her
29:51nanny told her that the cat was going to cat heaven. So not to worry about it. And Birdie
29:56was like, I don't think that's real. You're just saying it to make me feel better. And
30:00I was like, that is very astute. Yes. Oh, my God. She's like Betty Davis. She's like a
30:06little. But cricket. But cricket, on the other hand, cricket, on the other hand, is like,
30:11you know, Pegasus sprung from the head of Medusa, but they're basically all just unicorns. And
30:18like, you'll just like you're like, what are you talking about? What does that have to do
30:22with anything? And she just, she's like, do you think unicorns are still in some people's
30:26zoos? I'm like, I don't know. What? Like she's just, you know, says things that are complete
30:32non sequiturs and so funny and crazy all the time. But anyway, so back to Mark. That sounds
30:36very entertaining. She's a constant source of energy. I think both are. But so then and
30:40then, you know, so I made that deal. I was like, gladly, I want this. I know this baby needs
30:46to come into our lives. I'll make this deal. And then, of course, like the whole thing
30:51changed. And Mark, this baby showed up and everyone was in love with her. And Birdie was
30:57so cute with her. And he really just became started to figure it out. And then and then,
31:04yeah. And then over the last two years, he's he's also like he's gotten into his own therapy,
31:08which he had never done in his entire life. And it really it taught him all new tricks. And
31:15he's just like a totally, totally different human. I think it's important to be patient
31:19with people and how they how they adapt to huge changes like that. I think for I think
31:24for I hate to, you know, be gender biased, but I think it's I think it's hard for guys
31:28sometimes, you know, and there was a really a show that didn't last. But I remember there
31:32was a can't remember what sitcom it was. But the the clip that they showed was a couple
31:38on a Saturday morning. And, you know, she's carrying a big laundry basket and they've got
31:42like two kids running around and he comes in and he's in his running clothes. And she's
31:47like and she's like, what are you doing today? And he's like, I'm just going to go out for
31:49a run and then go meet so and so. And he's like, what are you doing? And she like literally
31:53like gets a laundry list of all the things that she's going to do today. She says it really
31:57deadpan. And and he's just like, OK, well, I'll see you later. And he just like runs out.
32:02And I remember thinking like that would that would literally like kill me. Yeah. I would
32:07literally run him over with my car. And that's what that's what I felt like. And I think it's
32:11really I think it's very relatable. I think a lot of people go through that. I mean, now
32:15we have the opposite where we wake up Saturday mornings and I'm like, see, I'm going to work
32:19out. I'm like, OK, I'll take the girls. All right. Don't I'll figure it out. Yeah. That's
32:24so funny. Don't even ask. Let me know when you guys figure out what you're doing for the
32:27day. I'll come meet you. I'll meet you for lunch. Yeah, totally. I'll see you at cocktail
32:33hour. Yeah. So I want to talk about the talk show. I'm busy tonight and you're doing
32:38it with Tina Fey's production company. Yeah. And she had originally approached you or her
32:42production company did. And you were just like, no, I don't really want to do this.
32:45They didn't approach me about doing a talk show. They had approached me about maybe developing
32:49another sort of sitcom thing for me. And she had produced a sitcom pilot that I did for NBC
32:57almost two years, a year and a half ago that didn't get picked up. And I was really devastated
33:02when that didn't get picked up. And I felt like it was the end of the road for me acting
33:08wise. It just I've been doing this professionally for 20 years and it doesn't get easier. It
33:14doesn't get easier for anyone that I know. It doesn't matter what position you've you
33:18were in, how many Oscar nominations you have, how valuable people think you are or what a
33:24commodity you are in television. It's always an uphill battle and it always breaks my heart.
33:29Like when I get the rejection, it never doesn't hurt. Like it hurts really bad. And I,
33:36I don't know. I just felt like I was at this point in my life where I was making money
33:39from
33:39my Instagram. I, so money wasn't a pressing issue in my life. And I didn't, I didn't want
33:46to subject raising kids is hard enough. Marriage is hard enough. I didn't want to subject myself
33:51to any more heartbreak that I didn't need to. Do you know what I mean? Does that make
33:56sense?
33:56No, it totally does.
33:57So anyway, so when Tina reached out and said, you know, that pilot was so good, we're sad
34:01it didn't go. We should think about developing another sitcom for you. I just was like, I,
34:07this, you're the greatest human, most talented genius. I don't think I can. Even with you,
34:14like even with Tina Fey, she's like, if you had told me that 10 years ago, I would have
34:19punched you in the face. Yeah, I know. I know. But then, but I was like, but let me think
34:24about,
34:24let me think about it. Obviously. Like, just let me think, let me think. I just don't know what I
34:27want to do. And about a few weeks later, like three or four weeks later, the New Yorker article
34:32came out about my Instagram stories. I was really meditating on what I wanted to do. And I went to
34:37this
34:38party in Palm Springs and I got a little high and I was like, Oh, I'm supposed to be a
34:43late night talk
34:43show host. That's what I'm supposed to do. I can do that. I'm going to do that. That's what I
34:47want
34:47to do. You're like, I'm already doing it on my Insta stories. Yeah. Let's just do that. And so I
34:52called Tina's company back and they were a little unsure at first because it's not something that's
34:57that they've ever done before. And then like two weeks later called back and she did host that show
35:03on Saturday Night Live. So she kind of knows. For sure. She has all of that experience. Yes. Which was
35:09my point to her. You guys can do this. I know you can. I watched SNL.
35:13Yeah. She called me back a couple. They called me back a couple of weeks later,
35:17basically saying we pretty much can sell this show to E. E wants it. We were just on the phone
35:23with them. So then it really happened very quickly. Wow. I know. So less than it. I think
35:29that Palm Springs was just about a year ago. It's kind of hard to imagine sort of another talk
35:34show, you know, coming out. And I also think that there's been so many attempts at making talk
35:39shows that haven't worked. But I have a feeling yours is going to work because I feel like you're
35:44right. You're already you're already kind of doing it. But what do you want to achieve with the talk
35:48show? Like what kinds of people do you want on it? What do you want to be talking about? Why
35:51is this?
35:52Why is this essential right now? Right now? Well, I need a break.
35:55Like my brain. It's about me. It's about me. I basically am looking to do a show that brings
36:03positivity into the half an hour before you go to sleep. Because I've been having like, you know,
36:09I was spending a lot of time on my Twitter before bed and I was having like crazy nightmares. And
36:14then
36:14I just started watching reruns of Friends. I don't want to watch the news. But you know, like I just
36:18needed something to like fill my brain that wasn't going to make me upset or sad. And so when I
36:23think
36:23about my late night show, what I want it to feel like is I want it to feel very comfortable
36:30for you
36:30to turn it on. And you know, it'll be funny. And it'll be positive. And I'll chat with some wonderful
36:37people, celebrities, inspirational authors, people that I like and I'm interested in. There'll be some
36:44like funny tape stuff. Are you gonna do stunts? Stunts like, you know, like Jimmy Fallon or Jimmy
36:50Kimmel. And you know, they have like the sort of like chemists come on board and they blow things
36:54up and things like that. I don't know if we're gonna blow anything up. But maybe maybe, but maybe
36:59maybe practical jokes. I just shot something with Fred Armisen for the first week a Halloween
37:04thing that he and I just did like a little I mean, I'm already in love. I think it's already
37:08gonna be
37:09hilarious. Really fun. He was very gracious and really fun to work with for the day. But yeah,
37:15and then I just I want it to be like, just a treat at the end of the day. And
37:19then we can all
37:20take our CBD gummies and go to bed. You know what I mean? I love it. And I'm like up
37:27every three
37:28hours, you know, or every two or actually every two hours preparing you. It is. I know I'll be
37:32watching your show. Oh, great. I know. I can't wait. Is it every night? Or is it like four nights
37:36a
37:36week? Okay. 10pm, which is great for me. And you'll see. I'm I'm so happy. And it launches on the
37:4228th,
37:42the 28th of October. But 10pm is like the perfect time for me. Because it's not too late. Is it
37:47gonna be live? Well, taped to live that day. Okay. So we'll tape it in the afternoon. And so
37:52have you started taping? No, no, no. Okay. The 28th. Okay. My first show. We've been doing like
37:56sure like how in advance you've been doing it. Okay. Like we taped the pre tape segment with Fred and
38:00we did the writers did a little pre taped segment where they went onto the street and they held up
38:05my
38:05picture and they asked people if they knew me or where they knew me from. And what did they say?
38:11I mean,
38:12just tell me one. There was like a woman who English was clearly not her first language. And
38:17she said, Oh, no, it's she's from that show. The show. You know, the sexy lady Jaguars.
38:25I swear to God, she said sexy lady Jaguars.
38:29Busy Phillips. Thank you so much for being a guest on Unstyled today.
38:32Thank you. I hope you'll come back. I will. I would love to.
38:41I hope you're inspired after hearing Busy's story. For even more Unstyled extras,
38:47check out Refinery29 or my Instagram at Christine Barbrick. You can also join the conversation using
38:53the hashtag Unstyled across your social media. And of course, we'd be infinitely grateful if you'd
38:58please subscribe to the Unstyled podcast on Apple Podcasts and rate us while you're there.
39:03You can head to Refinery29.com to find this episode and more and make sure to sign up for
39:09our exclusive Unstyled newsletter delivered straight to your inbox every week. Our show
39:14today was executive produced by Bridget Todd, associate produced by Rebecca Easley and edited
39:19by Priscilla Mena. Copy support was provided by Kelsey Miller. Our theme music today is by the artist
39:26Koff. We'll see you back here next Monday for a conversation with Bethany Frankel. See you then.
39:39you