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União Europeia: eurodeputados debatem alargamento em cimeira da Euronews em Bruxelas

Com a Comissão Europeia a divulgar o novo relatório de progresso sobre países candidatos, Riho Terras (PPE) e Pasquale Tridico (Grupo da Esquerda) confrontam-se sobre um dos projetos políticos mais ambiciosos

LEIA MAIS : http://pt.euronews.com/2026/11/05/uniao-europeia-eurodeputados-debatem-alargamento-em-cimeira-da-euronews-em-bruxelas

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00:08Olá e bem-vindos a uma especial edição de The Ring,
00:12Euronews's weekly debate show,
00:14broadcasting live from the Euronews Enlargement Summit
00:17from AutoWorld in Brussels.
00:20Eu sou Stefan Grober.
00:22Aqui no The Ring,
00:23politicians go face-to-face
00:25on some of the biggest issues
00:26facing the continent.
00:28And then on this episode,
00:30we are honing in on really the future of Europe.
00:34With Ukraine's accession ambitions
00:37and the Western Balkans long wait for membership,
00:40EU enlargement is once again
00:42at the center of Europe's political debate.
00:46While some see expansion as a strategic necessity
00:49to strengthen European security and democracy,
00:52others warn that rushing the process
00:55risks undermining peace, democratic standards
00:58and the EU's own cohesion.
01:02So, after years of promises and delays,
01:07can the EU move forward credibly?
01:10And should geopolitical interests come
01:12before strict membership rules?
01:15So, a lot to unpack here
01:17for our contenders in The Ring today.
01:20And here they are.
01:22Pascale Torridico,
01:23Italian member of the European Parliament
01:25with the left group,
01:26and Rio Terras,
01:27also member of the European Parliament
01:29with the European People's Party
01:30from Estonia.
01:32Please welcome to The Ring, gentlemen.
01:37Pascale.
01:42So, let's start with Serbia,
01:45where the parliamentary elections
01:46just a few days ago
01:47brought to power a student movement
01:49that is not necessarily more pro-European
01:53than the government of Aleksandr Vucic.
01:56Do you still see Serbia on track
01:58to become an EU member state
02:00in the foreseeable future?
02:02Rio, I'm going to start with you.
02:03Well, I'm not predicting anything
02:05what the student movement is or is not,
02:08because they were not willing
02:10to declare their political views
02:13before they were winning,
02:15and they won with an avalanche.
02:18So, I think it is important
02:20that the Serbian people have decided
02:22that the regime of Vucic
02:25was not democratic enough,
02:27and now it is in the hands of these people
02:30who have been elected to the parliament
02:32to decide which track
02:34that Serbia needs to take.
02:36And I am convinced
02:38that the track is European track
02:39because Serbian people
02:41are very much willing.
02:42Pascale, how do you see it?
02:44It's right.
02:45We don't know much about their...
02:47Yeah, we don't know much,
02:48but I would be quite...
02:49I mean, I'm quite happy
02:50about the fact that young students
02:52all over Europe today
02:54are demonstrating and fighting
02:56for their right.
02:56They want to take the future.
02:58And in fact, we see as well in Serbia
02:59it is happening directly
03:00through democratic process of the election.
03:03So, this is something
03:04that needs to be respected
03:05and seen positive in particular
03:07because, as we know,
03:08the government of Vucic
03:09was quite corrupted.
03:12There were accusations of that.
03:14Europe was complaining as well
03:15against the government.
03:18Does Serbia, at the end of the day,
03:21needs to make a choice
03:22between its friendship to Russia
03:25and the European Union?
03:28Nowadays, there is only...
03:29We're getting mixed signals here, right?
03:31Nowadays, there is only black and white.
03:34If you are not with European Union,
03:38Russia will grab you.
03:39And we have seen that Ukraine
03:42announcing their willingness
03:44to have an association agreement
03:46with the European Union
03:48caused the war
03:49and Russia attacked Ukraine.
03:51So, in my opinion,
03:53there is no free space in defense,
03:55no free space in economy,
03:57and Europe needs to use
03:59the opportunity right now.
04:00Would you agree?
04:01Well, I'm quite skeptic
04:03at the idea of seeing the world,
04:06in general,
04:07as black and white,
04:08the world,
04:09countries that need to make choice
04:11to be there and there.
04:12Member states have their own
04:15Eastern traditions,
04:16so they may be linked
04:18with some countries.
04:20I don't make this
04:21as a necessary condition.
04:22You have to disconnect
04:26all your legacy from...
04:28You know, we need to understand
04:29better the tradition
04:30and the root of the people.
04:31I see today
04:32that there is an issue
04:33with Russia
04:33and I see the war of aggression.
04:36But once we...
04:37We cannot change geography.
04:41Geography is there
04:42for us to be ruled,
04:44to be governed.
04:46And countries,
04:46they have ties.
04:47If we see the world
04:49as bloc contra...
04:52Blocs which are
04:53one against another,
04:55we don't see the room
04:57for politics, in fact.
04:58Politics needs, in general,
05:00to create links.
05:02Europe is funding
05:03and supporting Ukraine.
05:06Isn't it fair to say
05:07to Serbia,
05:08you need to cut off
05:09your relations with Russia?
05:11Otherwise,
05:11there is no European...
05:12I don't think it is
05:13any need to say
05:14to the countries anything.
05:16That's the more democratic
05:17governments
05:17who make decisions.
05:18And Ukraine has made...
05:19Ukrainian people
05:21have elected
05:21the president
05:22and the government
05:23which wants
05:25Ukraine to join
05:26the European Union.
05:27And Russia
05:28attacked Ukraine
05:29because of that.
05:30They did not want
05:31that Ukraine
05:33becomes a part
05:34of the European family
05:35of democratic nations.
05:37And the same decision
05:38lies on the Serbian side.
05:40If they want to join
05:41the European Union,
05:42they must.
05:42We must do
05:43everything possible
05:44to help them
05:44to get to the level
05:46that they will be accepted
05:47by the other
05:48European Union nations.
05:49But we should not
05:51tell the people
05:52what to do
05:52or what not to do.
05:54So in more general terms,
05:55the EU already
05:57struggles sometimes
05:58with the decision-making
06:00among 27 member states.
06:02Now there are
06:0430, 35 member states
06:06in the future.
06:07That would lead
06:08many people to say
06:09it's enough.
06:10This becomes
06:12unmanageable.
06:12What do you tell
06:13these people?
06:13Why that?
06:14As Europe had only...
06:16Well, if you cannot...
06:16Europe had only
06:17seven members,
06:18they thought
06:18that's impossible
06:19to take decisions
06:20in 15,
06:21it's impossible
06:22to take decisions
06:22in 20.
06:23As we were joining,
06:24it was said,
06:25well, taking them,
06:26the decisions
06:27will not be possible.
06:28It is always possible.
06:30The European Union
06:31has shown
06:31that it finds
06:33the finances
06:34and it finds
06:34the solutions
06:36for administrative
06:37solutions
06:38to enlarge
06:39just because
06:40it has been
06:40the most successful
06:41economic project
06:43of the history
06:44of the mankind.
06:45And we need
06:46to go on with it
06:47because if we don't
06:48then we will
06:49lose this battle.
06:50We should step
06:51forward.
06:51Pasquale.
06:52Well, you know,
06:53Stefan,
06:54which country
06:55has been
06:55historically
06:56in Europe
06:56in favor
06:57of the enlargement?
06:59Guess one.
07:01UK.
07:01UK has been
07:02historically
07:03in favor
07:03of all the
07:04enlargement
07:04possible.
07:05You know why?
07:06Because actually
07:06Europe,
07:08UK,
07:09wants to
07:10weakening
07:10the process
07:11of
07:12integration
07:13through
07:13enlargement.
07:15And I would
07:16say,
07:16in a way,
07:17this objective
07:18was reached.
07:19This was one
07:20of the biggest
07:20objectives
07:21of Margaret Thatcher,
07:22who was not
07:23really a Europeanist
07:24in the sense
07:24of a federalist
07:25European.
07:26Actually,
07:27I see the enlargement
07:29as a process
07:29which could
07:31happen
07:31only if
07:32you manage
07:34to deepen
07:34the integration.
07:36If we
07:36do enlargement
07:37just because
07:38of military
07:38purpose,
07:39for instance,
07:40or just because
07:41we do have
07:42just one
07:43specific objective,
07:44forgetting
07:45the common
07:47market,
07:48forgetting
07:48the social
07:48dimension,
07:49forgetting
07:50the peace
07:50on which
07:51Europe is
07:51founded,
07:52then I think
07:53that we
07:53do a mistake.
07:55Enlargement
07:55is a process
07:56which needs
07:56first of all
07:57reform,
07:58which needs
07:58increasing.
07:59Look at
08:00the budget.
08:00We are
08:01fighting in
08:02Europe
08:02for 1%
08:03budget.
08:04For what?
08:05How can
08:06we define
08:07that Europe
08:07if we
08:08don't have
08:08a budget
08:09to spend?
08:09With
08:10more
08:10member states
08:11actually,
08:11this would
08:12be even
08:13more
08:13dangerous
08:14to create
08:15a common
08:15budget
08:15because most
08:16of them
08:16are against,
08:17would be
08:18against,
08:18against the
08:19social dimension,
08:20against the
08:20spending,
08:21against the
08:21common budget,
08:22against many
08:23common
08:24objectives
08:24that we,
08:25in 1957,
08:29we thought
08:30that is
08:31very important
08:32to respect.
08:32A lot of
08:33points here.
08:34I want to
08:34go back
08:34to Rio.
08:35Are you...
08:36No,
08:36absolutely,
08:37I don't agree
08:37at all.
08:38I mean,
08:39we should
08:40see enlargement
08:41as an opportunity.
08:43And I'll take
08:44Ukraine because
08:45it is the
08:45biggest one.
08:46The small ones,
08:47it was talked
08:47on the scene
08:48today,
08:49the small ones,
08:50they are,
08:51say,
08:52easier,
08:53digestible
08:53for European Union.
08:54But Ukraine,
08:55with its
08:5640 million people,
08:57is, of course,
08:58a challenge.
08:59The same thing
08:59which was said
09:00about Poland.
09:01and today
09:02Poland is
09:03one of the
09:04most successful
09:05economies,
09:06even through
09:07the recession
09:08times,
09:08Poland was
09:09very solid
09:09on its economy
09:11and it's
09:11now one of
09:12the pillars
09:12of European
09:13Union.
09:15Ukraine has
09:16educated
09:17very clever
09:17people.
09:18Ukraine has
09:18the biggest
09:19national resources
09:20of Europe.
09:21I'm not
09:21talking about
09:22agriculture,
09:23but even
09:24the natural
09:25resources
09:25are the biggest
09:26in Europe.
09:27It should
09:27be seen
09:28as an
09:28opportunity
09:31to get
09:31stronger
09:32with a
09:32bigger
09:33market,
09:34with
09:34economical
09:35wealth
09:36against
09:37all the
09:37other
09:37nations
09:38who are
09:38competing
09:39with us.
09:40I mean,
09:40the United
09:41States
09:41is much
09:42bigger
09:43how
09:43somehow
09:44they
09:44manage
09:44to
09:44deal
09:45with
09:45themselves
09:46and
09:46they
09:47also
09:47have
09:48bigger
09:48problems.
09:49Of course
09:49they have.
09:50Do you
09:50agree with
09:51this?
09:51Do you
09:52agree
09:52with this
09:52assessment?
09:53Well,
09:54since you
09:54made the
09:55comparison
09:55with the
09:55United
09:56States,
09:56we are
09:56bigger
09:5727
09:58today,
09:58we did
09:59not even
09:59manage to
10:00have a
10:00common
10:00policy
10:01against
10:01the
10:01tariff
10:02of
10:02Trump.
10:03Because
10:03we
10:03disagree
10:04with
10:04the
10:04approach
10:05that
10:05we
10:05need
10:05to
10:05maintain
10:06against
10:07Trump.
10:07If
10:07we
10:08are
10:0835,
10:09do you
10:09think
10:09that
10:09it would
10:09be
10:09easy
10:10to
10:10find
10:10a
10:11trade
10:11policy
10:11a
10:12common
10:12answer
10:12to
10:13Trump?
10:14Well,
10:14this
10:14is
10:14what
10:14I
10:15mean
10:15when
10:15enlargement
10:16done
10:16without
10:17a
10:17process
10:18could
10:18even
10:19weaken
10:19Europe.
10:20I'm
10:20not prejudicial
10:21against
10:21enlargement.
10:22Actually,
10:23I'm
10:23in
10:23favor
10:23of
10:24the
10:24enlargement.
10:24I
10:25think
10:25that
10:26enlargement
10:26before
10:27that
10:27needs
10:28to
10:29create
10:29common
10:30policy,
10:31reform
10:32in the
10:32institutional
10:32setting,
10:33and as
10:34well,
10:34a reflection
10:35of what
10:36Europe is
10:37about.
10:38Europe
10:39is about
10:39a market.
10:40Well,
10:40we do not
10:41need a
10:41European Union
10:42if Europe
10:42is about
10:43a market.
10:43We just
10:44have a
10:44trade union
10:45then.
10:46Europe
10:46is about
10:47a social
10:47dimension,
10:48an economic
10:49dimension,
10:49a common
10:50idea of
10:51where we
10:51want to
10:52be in
10:5320,
10:5350,
10:54100
10:54years
10:55from now.
10:56Okay,
10:56let me stop
10:57you right
10:57there.
10:58As we're
10:58just getting
10:59warmed up
10:59here,
11:00it's now
11:00time for
11:01gloves
11:02off.
11:07Now,
11:07we want
11:08the viewers
11:08to get a
11:09real flavor
11:09of the
11:10European
11:10Parliament
11:10where
11:11members
11:12ask
11:13each other
11:13questions
11:14and respond
11:15to each
11:16other
11:16directly.
11:17That
11:17means
11:17we want
11:17our
11:18contenders
11:18today
11:19to
11:19challenge
11:19each
11:20other
11:20directly
11:21just
11:21as
11:22you
11:22do
11:22in
11:22the
11:22hemicycle
11:23in
11:23Strasbourg
11:24and
11:24Brussels.
11:25So,
11:25let's
11:26get
11:26started
11:26and
11:27I'm
11:27going
11:27to
11:27start
11:28with
11:28you,
11:28Rio.
11:28What's
11:28your
11:29question
11:29to
11:29Pasquale?
11:30I
11:31have
11:31heard
11:31you
11:32arguing
11:32about
11:34that
11:34the
11:35European
11:35defense
11:36policy
11:36is
11:37dominated
11:38by
11:38Estonia.
11:39Do
11:39you
11:39really
11:40think
11:40that
11:40one
11:41million
11:41people
11:41can
11:42dominate
11:42anything
11:42first?
11:43But
11:44secondly,
11:44do
11:45you
11:45think
11:45that
11:45we
11:45should
11:46neglect
11:46the
11:46possibility
11:47of
11:47trying
11:48to
11:49dominate
11:49defense
11:49after
11:50Russia
11:51has
11:51attacked
11:52Estonia
11:52in the
11:52last
11:53thousand
11:53years
11:5342
11:54times
11:54which
11:55makes
11:55it
11:55every
11:5525
11:56years
11:56and
11:56we
11:56are
11:57right
11:57now
11:57on
11:57the
11:5730
11:5850
11:58year
11:58of
11:59our
11:59independence
11:59so
11:59do
12:00you
12:01really
12:01think
12:01that
12:01Estonia
12:02should
12:02shut
12:02up
12:03as
12:03a
12:03small
12:03country
12:03and
12:04not
12:04talk
12:04about
12:04defense
12:05the
12:05way
12:05you
12:06posted
12:06it?
12:12confirm
12:12that
12:13the
12:14three
12:14most
12:14important
12:15commissioners
12:15today
12:16in
12:16Europe
12:17they
12:17are
12:17Dombrowski
12:18Economy
12:19Kubilius
12:20Defense
12:21and
12:22Callas
12:22Foreign
12:24Affair
12:24Estonia
12:25Lithuania
12:26and
12:26Latvia
12:27so
12:27this
12:29basically
12:29underline
12:30a kind
12:31of
12:31strong
12:32interest
12:33only
12:34for that
12:34part
12:35of
12:35Europe
12:35I
12:36understand
12:37the
12:37current
12:37period
12:38the
12:38current
12:38moment
12:39in which
12:39we
12:39live
12:39but
12:40if
12:40we
12:40don't
12:41bring
12:41Europe
12:41together
12:42then
12:42Europe
12:43will
12:43weaken
12:43itself
12:44so
12:44I'm
12:44not
12:44against
12:45Estonia
12:45I
12:45love
12:46Estonia
12:46I've
12:47been
12:47teaching
12:47in
12:48Tallinn
12:48for
12:48a
12:48while
12:48I've
12:49been
12:49quite
12:49international
12:50in
12:50Europe
12:50traveling
12:51and
12:52teaching
12:52which
12:53is
12:53my
12:53profession
12:54in
12:54many
12:54Eastern
12:55Europeans
12:56actually
12:56my
12:57PhD
12:57was
12:58about
12:58enlargement
12:59of
13:00Eastern
13:00Europe
13:00and
13:01I
13:01focus
13:02exactly
13:02on
13:03the
13:03case
13:03of
13:03Poland
13:03you
13:04know
13:04why
13:04Poland
13:04is
13:05a
13:05successful
13:05case
13:05that
13:06you
13:06manage
13:06because
13:07it
13:07managed
13:08to
13:08create
13:08the
13:08right
13:09institutions
13:09before
13:10since
13:101993
13:11before
13:12with
13:13a
13:13sort
13:13of
13:14therapy
13:15reforming
13:16the
13:16state
13:16building
13:17the
13:17nation
13:18within
13:18and
13:19then
13:19expanding
13:20policy
13:21embracing
13:22Europe
13:22the
13:22conditionality
13:23of
13:23Copenhagen
13:23in
13:24primus
13:24and
13:24this
13:24was
13:25a
13:25successful
13:25case
13:25because
13:26of
13:26that
13:26I'm
13:26not
13:27against
13:27Poland
13:27I'm
13:27in
13:28favor
13:28I
13:28want
13:29you
13:29to
13:29ask
13:29a
13:30question
13:30to
13:31Rio
13:31also
13:32do
13:33you
13:33think
13:33that
13:33Europe
13:34actually
13:34need
13:35to
13:35increase
13:35the
13:35budget
13:36to
13:37face
13:37the
13:38challenge
13:38that
13:39we
13:39are
13:39facing
13:40starting
13:41from
13:41social
13:42dimension
13:42the
13:43protest
13:43of
13:43today
13:44in
13:44most
13:44of
13:44European
13:45country
13:45which
13:46actually
13:47underlines
13:47suffering
13:49the
13:49crisis
13:49of
13:50the
13:50automotive
13:50the
13:51crisis
13:51of
13:51industry
13:52do
13:52you
13:52think
13:52that
13:53the
13:53market
13:53alone
13:54can
13:54save
13:55us
13:55along
13:55with
13:56the
13:56military
13:56probably
13:57conversion
13:58of
13:58the
13:58industry
13:58or
13:59do
13:59you
13:59think
13:59that
13:59we
14:00need
14:00to
14:00increase
14:00the
14:00budget
14:01and
14:02having
14:02unanimity
14:03as
14:03well
14:03in
14:04the
14:04process
14:04of
14:05decision
14:05I
14:05think
14:06European
14:06Union
14:06needs
14:07to
14:07have
14:07the
14:07budget
14:08for
14:08its
14:08common
14:09projects
14:09but
14:09I
14:10think
14:10the
14:11problems
14:11lie
14:11in
14:12the
14:12nations
14:13who
14:13are
14:13not
14:13following
14:14the
14:14Maastricht
14:15criterias
14:15and
14:16the
14:16nation
14:16should
14:17get
14:17their
14:18own
14:18finances
14:19intact
14:19in
14:20the
14:20way
14:20that
14:21you
14:21will
14:21be
14:21able
14:22to
14:22pay
14:22your
14:23social
14:23services
14:24you
14:24will
14:24be
14:24able
14:25to
14:25pay
14:25even
14:26for
14:26defense
14:26because
14:27the
14:27security
14:28and
14:28defense
14:29policy
14:29as
14:30foreign
14:30policy
14:30is
14:31responsibility
14:32of the
14:32European
14:34member
14:35nations
14:35and not
14:36European
14:36Union
14:36Europe
14:37should
14:37concentrate
14:38on
14:38competitiveness
14:39of
14:40European
14:41as a
14:42whole
14:42and
14:42the
14:43competitiveness
14:43has
14:44suffered
14:44a lot
14:44in the
14:45last
14:45years
14:45because
14:46of
14:46the
14:46very
14:47weak
14:47governments
14:47say
14:48in
14:49France
14:49with
14:49a
14:51huge
14:52national
14:52debt
14:53in
14:53Estonia
14:54our
14:55national
14:56debt
14:56is
14:5620%
14:57most
14:58of
14:58the
14:59European
14:59countries
14:59have
14:59it
15:00around
15:00100%
15:01or
15:01more
15:01you
15:02should
15:03have
15:03finances
15:04intact
15:04in
15:05your
15:05own
15:05countries
15:06and
15:06not
15:07increase
15:07the
15:07European
15:08budget
15:08for
15:09that
15:09so
15:10you
15:10use
15:10the
15:11common
15:11money
15:11so
15:11it's
15:12like
15:12a
15:12big
15:12guy
15:13a
15:13small
15:13guy
15:14first
15:14we
15:14eat
15:15your
15:15sausage
15:16and
15:16then
15:16each
15:17of
15:17us
15:17eats
15:18his
15:18own
15:18I
15:19don't
15:19think
15:20that
15:20is
15:20a
15:20good
15:20policy
15:21all
15:21right
15:21thank
15:21you
15:21so
15:22much
15:22for
15:22this
15:22round
15:22we've
15:23heard
15:23your
15:24views
15:24from
15:25our
15:26guests
15:26now
15:26it's
15:27time
15:27to
15:27hear
15:27from
15:28a
15:28new
15:28voice
15:33and
15:34let's
15:34bring
15:34in
15:34the
15:34voice
15:35of
15:35Ursula
15:35von
15:35der
15:36Leyen
15:36the
15:36EU
15:36commission
15:37president
15:37just
15:38a few
15:38weeks
15:38ago
15:39she
15:39characterized
15:39EU
15:40enlargement
15:41as
15:41this
15:42and I
15:42quote
15:43enlargement
15:44of our
15:44union
15:44is
15:45a
15:45geopolitical
15:46imperative
15:47today
15:47we're
15:48laying
15:48the
15:48groundwork
15:49to
15:49ensure
15:49that
15:50the
15:50larger
15:50union
15:51is
15:51also
15:51a
15:52stronger
15:52one
15:53so
15:54geopolitical
15:55imperative
15:56Pascuala
15:57let's talk
15:58about the
15:58elephant
15:58in the
15:59room
15:59here
15:59Russia
16:00has
16:00Russia's
16:01war
16:01against
16:01Ukraine
16:02turned
16:03enlargement
16:04into a
16:04matter
16:04of
16:05European
16:05security
16:06well
16:07evidently
16:08yes
16:08meaning
16:09that
16:09this
16:09is
16:10a
16:10fact
16:10we
16:11are
16:11now
16:11speaking
16:12about
16:12enlargement
16:12exactly
16:13because
16:13of
16:13the
16:13geopolitical
16:14dimension
16:15but
16:15this
16:15I
16:16think
16:16is
16:16the
16:17mistake
16:17as
16:18far
16:18as
16:18we
16:18treat
16:19enlargement
16:20as
16:20a
16:20geopolitical
16:21dimension
16:21we
16:21incur
16:22in the
16:23problem
16:23that I
16:23was underlining
16:24before
16:24we forget
16:26about economy
16:26we forget
16:27about social
16:27dimension
16:28we forget
16:29about the
16:29issue
16:30on which
16:311957
16:32Rome
16:32treaty
16:33was founded
16:33so
16:34then I think
16:35that the
16:35phrase
16:36of
16:38underlying
16:38with due
16:39respect
16:40should be
16:40a little
16:41bit
16:41reformulated
16:41Rio
16:42what do
16:43you think
16:43did we
16:44change the
16:44rules here
16:45purely looking
16:46at
16:47security
16:47I think
16:48Europe
16:48is a
16:49peace
16:49project
16:50Europe
16:50has been
16:51a peace
16:51project
16:51from the
16:52very
16:52beginning
16:52and I
16:53remember
16:54I was
16:55one of
16:55those
16:56who was
16:56working
16:56hard
16:57in the
16:57embassy
16:58towards
16:59European
16:59Union
17:00and
17:00NATO
17:00and we
17:01have
17:02defined
17:03these
17:03aims
17:03already
17:04early
17:051990s
17:06because
17:07we
17:07saw
17:07it
17:08as
17:08something
17:09which
17:09delivers
17:09also
17:10security
17:10and
17:11it
17:12is
17:12the
17:12same
17:12today
17:13it
17:13has
17:13not
17:13changed
17:14but
17:15Europe's
17:15focus
17:16should
17:17be
17:17still
17:17a
17:18competitiveness
17:18of
17:19European
17:19nations
17:20in the
17:20world
17:20because
17:21this
17:22is
17:22the
17:22strength
17:22last
17:23year
17:23we
17:24overcome
17:25China
17:25as
17:26a
17:26gross
17:26domestic
17:27product
17:27and
17:28now
17:28rating
17:29second
17:30after
17:30the
17:30United
17:30States
17:31we
17:31should
17:32use
17:32this
17:32power
17:33this
17:34economic
17:35to
17:35influence
17:36but
17:36nobody
17:37listens
17:37to
17:37us
17:37if
17:37we
17:38don't
17:38have
17:38weapons
17:38so
17:39we
17:39need
17:40to
17:40militarize
17:41ourselves
17:41back
17:42to
17:42the
17:42level
17:42where
17:43we
17:43were
17:43listened
17:44to
17:44today
17:44Putin
17:45does
17:45not
17:45listen
17:46to
17:46us
17:46we
17:46have
17:46seen
17:47President
17:47Stoop
17:48talking
17:48to
17:49Putin
17:50got
17:51a
17:52lecture
17:52from
17:53him
17:54about
17:54the
17:54history
17:55we
17:55should
17:56show
17:57that
17:57we
17:57are
17:58strong
17:58and
17:59we
17:59need
17:59to
17:59be
17:59counted
18:00with
18:00Pascuale
18:01we've
18:02heard
18:02about
18:04Russian
18:04influence
18:06in the
18:06Western
18:07Balkans
18:07even
18:08in
18:08Western
18:08Europe
18:08but
18:09in
18:09the
18:09Western
18:09Balkans
18:09in
18:10particular
18:11isn't
18:11that
18:12a reason
18:12more
18:13to say
18:13we need
18:14to admit
18:14these
18:15countries
18:16because
18:16otherwise
18:17they
18:18are
18:18left
18:19to
18:21Russian
18:21whims
18:22and
18:22Russian
18:23aggression
18:24well
18:25it
18:25depends
18:25it
18:25depends
18:26what
18:26we
18:26mean
18:27by
18:28condition
18:29conditionally
18:30that
18:30Russia
18:30is
18:30exerting
18:31on
18:31Montenegro
18:32on
18:32Serbia
18:33and so
18:33on
18:34those
18:34people
18:34first of
18:35all
18:35think
18:36about
18:36religion
18:36those
18:37people
18:37are
18:37mostly
18:37in
18:38Serbia
18:38in
18:39Orthodox
18:40they
18:40have
18:40link
18:41not
18:41with
18:41Putin
18:42they
18:42link
18:42with
18:43some
18:43legacy
18:43with
18:44some
18:44tradition
18:45do
18:45we
18:45need
18:46to
18:46ask
18:46to
18:46these
18:47people
18:47forget
18:47about
18:48your
18:48religion
18:48forget
18:49about
18:49your
18:49patriarch
18:50I don't
18:51think
18:51that
18:51this
18:51is
18:51a
18:51good
18:51approach
18:52from
18:52us
18:52from
18:53a
18:53democratic
18:53point
18:54of
18:54view
18:54we
18:55still
18:55claim
18:56and
18:56we
18:56are
18:56a
18:57democratic
18:57union
18:58so
18:58that
18:58we
18:59need
18:59to
19:00accept
19:00the
19:01legacy
19:01of
19:01the
19:01country
19:02then
19:02as
19:02far
19:02as
19:03of
19:03course
19:03we
19:03think
19:04about
19:04political
19:05influences
19:06choices
19:06trade
19:07well
19:09this
19:09need
19:10to
19:10be
19:10discussed
19:11and
19:11I
19:11would
19:11not
19:11be
19:12in
19:12favor
19:12do
19:13you
19:13agree
19:14do
19:15I
19:15agree
19:15that
19:15people
19:16need
19:16to
19:16have
19:16their
19:16culture
19:17taken
19:17care
19:18of
19:18yes
19:18I
19:18do
19:18I
19:19think
19:19freedom
19:22of
19:23religion
19:23is
19:23one
19:23of
19:24the
19:24core
19:24principles
19:24of
19:25European
19:25Union
19:25I
19:36following
19:36organization
19:38which
19:38just
19:38influences
19:39the
19:40minds
19:40of
19:40the
19:40people
19:41in
19:42order
19:42to
19:42be
19:42with
19:43Putin
19:43in
19:44this
19:44war
19:44of
19:45aggression
19:46against
19:46Ukraine
19:47yeah
19:47talk
19:48about
19:48people
19:48we
19:49will
19:49do
19:49that
19:49in
19:49our
19:50next
19:50round
19:51which
19:51is
19:51the
19:51fourth
19:52one
20:00let's
20:01take
20:01a
20:01look
20:01at
20:02how
20:02European
20:02citizens
20:03follow
20:03the
20:04current
20:04debates
20:04on
20:05enlargement
20:05and
20:06what
20:06their
20:06thinking
20:07is
20:08especially
20:08their
20:09worries
20:09and
20:10here
20:10we
20:10have
20:10a
20:10special
20:11Eurobarometer
20:11survey
20:12from
20:122025
20:13that
20:13still
20:13offers
20:14some
20:14eye
20:15opening
20:15clues
20:16so
20:16when
20:17people
20:17across
20:17Europe
20:17are
20:18asked
20:18about
20:18their
20:18worries
20:19when
20:19it
20:19comes
20:20to
20:20enlargement
20:2036%
20:22say
20:22well
20:23it
20:23creates
20:23more
20:23complicated
20:24decision
20:24making
20:25at
20:25EU
20:25level
20:2637%
20:27it's
20:28the
20:28cost
20:28to
20:28European
20:29taxpayers
20:29that
20:30is
20:30worrying
20:3039%
20:31say
20:32corruption
20:33organized
20:33crime
20:34and
20:35terrorism
20:35and 40%
20:37uncontrolled
20:38migration
20:39how do you see these numbers
20:41Pascual
20:41does anything
20:42surprise you here
20:43well not much
20:44I think that this is
20:46quite true
20:47reflect very much
20:48as well
20:49the
20:52preoccupation
20:52of some
20:53citizen in Italy
20:54which is my
20:55country
20:55cost of
20:56living today
20:56is very
20:57high in the
20:58priority
20:59and
21:00people in
21:01Europe
21:01people in
21:02Italy
21:03underline
21:04the fact
21:04that the
21:06decision making
21:07at European
21:07level
21:08is so slow
21:09is so complex
21:10and so complicated
21:11that's why
21:12when I say
21:12we need to
21:13first
21:14change our
21:15institution
21:15and that's why
21:16the institution
21:17of the
21:17country
21:17which is
21:20making
21:20accession
21:21to Europe
21:22before
21:22making
21:23enlargement
21:24because
21:24this is what
21:25citizens
21:26would understand
21:27otherwise
21:27actually
21:28what we have
21:29seen in the
21:29last
21:30years
21:31is basically
21:32an increase
21:33of
21:33sovereignism
21:34which is
21:35detrimental
21:35for the
21:36process
21:36of European
21:37integration
21:37if we do
21:38not care
21:39about
21:39social
21:39issues
21:40about
21:40cost of
21:40living
21:41about
21:41cost of
21:42wage
21:43which are
21:44not
21:44increasing
21:45inflation
21:45which is
21:46eroding
21:46purchasing
21:47power
21:47then we
21:48don't
21:48bring all
21:48the
21:49citizens
21:49together
21:49and this
21:50is what
21:50we need
21:50to do
21:50Ria
21:51are we
21:51not
21:52we as
21:53European
21:53Union
21:55communicating
21:55enough
21:56the
21:57advantages
21:58of
21:59enlargement
21:59I mean
22:00this
22:00uncontrolled
22:01migration
22:0240%
22:03of people
22:03worry
22:04about
22:04this
22:04is this
22:04justified
22:05I think
22:06it is
22:06I mean
22:06we need
22:07to listen
22:08to the
22:08people
22:08but
22:09first
22:09the
22:10governments
22:11of the
22:11countries
22:12need
22:12to listen
22:12to the
22:13people
22:13but
22:13there
22:14are
22:14certain
22:14things
22:14Europe
22:15can
22:15do
22:15and
22:16of course
22:16the
22:17question
22:17about
22:17bureaucracy
22:18which was
22:18one of
22:19the
22:19threats
22:20also
22:20is
22:21something
22:21we need
22:21to deal
22:22with
22:22because
22:22bureaucracy
22:23is a
22:24tendency
22:24to create
22:25more
22:25bureaucracy
22:26we need
22:26to cut
22:27the
22:27red
22:27tape
22:27we need
22:28to
22:29decrease
22:30significantly
22:30the
22:31European
22:31bureaucracy
22:32because
22:33a lot
22:33of money
22:34comes
22:34always
22:34with
22:35bureaucracy
22:35but we
22:36need
22:36to control
22:36the
22:37bureaucracy
22:37second
22:38thing
22:38is
22:38absolutely
22:39we need
22:39to
22:39combat
22:40the
22:41migration
22:41the
22:42same
22:42way
22:42we
22:43are
22:43dealing
22:43with
22:43the
22:43defense
22:44issues
22:44on the
22:44eastern
22:45border
22:45we need
22:46to
22:46take care
22:46of
22:46the
22:47Mediterranean
22:48and
22:48all
22:48the
22:49questions
22:49of
22:49migration
22:50and
22:50not
22:50invite
22:51everybody
22:51to be
22:52part
22:52of
22:52it
22:53not
22:55legally
22:56or
22:56illegally
22:57we need
22:58to
22:58concentrate
22:58on
22:59what
22:59our
23:00people
23:00want
23:00in
23:01our
23:02countries
23:02and
23:03Europe
23:03should
23:03take
23:04the
23:04bigger
23:04challenges
23:05we've
23:06seen
23:06time
23:06and
23:07again
23:07the
23:07political
23:08potency
23:09of the
23:09migration
23:10issue
23:10in
23:11Europe
23:11in
23:11the
23:11public
23:12discourse
23:12and
23:13of
23:13course
23:13in
23:14election
23:15campaigns
23:17is it
23:18fair
23:18to say
23:18that
23:19migration
23:20and the
23:20migration
23:21issue
23:21is
23:22one
23:22of the
23:23biggest
23:23threats
23:24to
23:24enlargement
23:25because
23:25if
23:25the
23:25population
23:26is
23:27against
23:28it
23:28for
23:29this
23:29reason
23:30what
23:31do
23:31we
23:31do
23:31yeah
23:31probably
23:32it is
23:32probably
23:33it is
23:33part
23:33of
23:33the
23:34issue
23:34because
23:35people
23:36and
23:36citizens
23:37are scared
23:37within
23:38a scarcity
23:39period
23:40as today
23:40economy
23:41are not
23:42growing
23:42in
23:42Europe
23:43actually
23:43most
23:43of
23:43European
23:44countries
23:44economy
23:45are
23:45stagnating
23:46wages
23:46are not
23:46increasing
23:47inflation
23:47is
23:48taking
23:49purchasing
23:49power
23:50and then
23:51citizens
23:51think
23:52wrongly
23:52I would
23:53say
23:53but
23:53actually
23:53we need
23:54to
23:54explain
23:54that
23:55is
23:55not
23:55the
23:56case
23:56that
23:57migration
23:58may
23:58be
23:58an
23:58opportunity
23:59as far
23:59as
24:00legal
24:00migration
24:01we are
24:01thinking
24:02and
24:02as far
24:02as
24:05the
24:05opportunity
24:06of
24:07job
24:07are
24:07there
24:07look
24:09there is
24:09a demographic
24:10issue
24:11in
24:12Europe
24:12in
24:13Italy
24:13as well
24:14as most
24:14of
24:14European
24:14countries
24:15in
24:15Italy
24:15fertility
24:16rate
24:16is
24:161,1
24:17we
24:18actually
24:19have
24:19challenged
24:20our
24:20pension
24:21system
24:21because
24:21in
24:22most
24:22of
24:22European
24:22Union
24:23the
24:23pension
24:23system
24:23rely
24:24on
24:24the
24:24number
24:25of
24:25workers
24:25working
24:26working
24:27not only
24:27with
24:27artificial
24:28intelligence
24:28doing
24:29the
24:29smart
24:29things
24:30but
24:30working
24:30as well
24:31in
24:31manufacture
24:32in
24:32building
24:33construction
24:33in
24:34agriculture
24:34and
24:35nobody
24:35today
24:36of
24:36European
24:37cities
24:37and
24:37mostly
24:37cases
24:38would like
24:39to
24:39do
24:39this
24:40job
24:40so
24:40there
24:40is
24:40a
24:41demand
24:41of
24:41labor
24:42which
24:42is
24:42as well
24:43a
24:43need
24:44for
24:45migration
24:46which
24:46is
24:46legally
24:47integrated
24:47I
24:48think
24:48that
24:49if
24:49we
24:49explain
24:49to
24:50citizens
24:50the
24:51need
24:51for
24:51migration
24:52as far
24:52as
24:53demand
24:53of
24:53labor
24:53is
24:54concerned
24:54then
24:55we
24:55can
24:55let
24:56them
24:56accept
24:58migration
24:58as part
24:59of
25:00a
25:00deal
25:01within
25:01the
25:01European
25:02Union
25:02Italy
25:03has
25:03been
25:03a
25:03country
25:04of
25:04huge
25:05migration
25:05from
25:06south
25:06of
25:06Europe
25:07from
25:07south
25:07of
25:07Italy
25:08to
25:08north
25:09of
25:09Europe
25:09within
25:10the
25:10European
25:10Union
25:10this
25:11was
25:11a
25:11resource
25:11so
25:12if
25:12we
25:12look
25:13at
25:13the
25:13issue
25:14in
25:14this
25:14sense
25:15but
25:15then
25:15you
25:15see
25:16we
25:16are
25:16not
25:16speaking
25:16about
25:17defense
25:17we are
25:17speaking
25:18about
25:18social
25:19issue
25:19labor
25:20market
25:20issue
25:21we are
25:21speaking
25:22about
25:22opportunity
25:22of
25:23demand
25:23of
25:23labor
25:24and
25:24not
25:24about
25:25an
25:25abstract
25:26construction
25:27which
25:27has
25:28to do
25:28with
25:28defense
25:28and
25:29military
25:29issues
25:30okay
25:32that
25:32will
25:32close
25:33this
25:33round
25:33thank
25:34you
25:34so
25:34much
25:34and
25:35now
25:35it's
25:35time
25:36to
25:36move
25:37on
25:37to
25:37our
25:37fifth
25:38and
25:38last
25:38round
25:43and
25:43here
25:43I'm
25:43going
25:44to
25:44ask
25:44you
25:44a
25:44set
25:44of
25:44questions
25:45to
25:45which
25:45you
25:45can
25:46only
25:46answer
25:46yes
25:47or
25:48no
25:48okay
25:49yeah
25:50yes
25:50yes
25:51yes
25:51good
25:51we
25:52start
25:53with
25:53you
25:53is
25:54a
25:55bigger
25:55EU
25:55a
25:56necessarily
25:57stronger
25:58EU
25:58yes
25:59well
26:00yes
26:01okay
26:02should
26:02there
26:03be
26:03a
26:03reform
26:03of
26:03the
26:04treaties
26:04before
26:05further
26:05enlargement
26:06yes
26:07no
26:08okay
26:09should
26:10Ukraine
26:11be
26:11an EU
26:11member
26:12before
26:122030
26:13if
26:14merit
26:15paced
26:16if it
26:16fits
26:17the
26:17conditions
26:18conditional
26:19yes
26:19conditional
26:19yes
26:21well
26:22we
26:22need
26:22to
26:22change
26:23first
26:23the
26:23treaty
26:24the
26:25institutional
26:26reform
26:26we need
26:27to
26:27change
26:28there
26:29are
26:29some
26:29conditionalities
26:30okay
26:31should
26:31we
26:31end
26:32the
26:32national
26:32veto
26:32on
26:33enlargement
26:33in general
26:34no
26:35no
26:36no
26:37no
26:37okay
26:38can
26:39Serbia
26:39join
26:39without
26:40abandoning
26:40its
26:40ties to
26:41Russia
26:42if
26:44Serbia
26:46fulfills
26:47the
26:47requirements
26:48then yes
26:50if
26:50we
26:50are
26:51speaking
26:51about
26:52cultural
26:52links
26:53no
26:53I
26:53don't
26:54care
26:54if
26:55we
26:55are
26:55speaking
26:55about
26:56political
26:56or
26:56defense
26:57link
26:57well
26:57this
26:58is
26:59not
26:59okay
27:00then
27:01has
27:01enlargement
27:01become
27:02a test
27:02of
27:02Europe's
27:03geopolitical
27:04credibility
27:04it
27:05has
27:05always
27:05been
27:06yeah
27:06okay
27:07thank you
27:08very much
27:09that brings
27:09us to
27:10the end
27:10of this
27:11edition
27:11of
27:11the
27:11ring
27:12thanks
27:12again
27:13to
27:13Pasquale
27:14and
27:14Rio
27:15for
27:15a
27:15lively
27:16conversation
27:16here
27:17from
27:17the
27:17European
27:17Enlargement
27:18Summit
27:19thanks
27:20to your
27:20audience
27:21here
27:21at home
27:21if you
27:22like
27:22you can
27:22continue
27:23the
27:23conversation
27:23by
27:24sending
27:24us
27:25your
27:25comments
27:26to
27:26the
27:26ring
27:26at
27:27euronews.com
27:28we love
27:29to have
27:29your
27:29feedback
27:30that's
27:31it
27:31for
27:31this
27:32edition
27:32I'm
27:33Sheldon
27:33Gober
27:33take
27:33care
27:34and
27:34see
27:34you
27:34soon
27:35on
27:35your
27:35news
27:36thank you
27:36very much
27:38thank you
27:39very much
27:39very much
27:41thank you
27:42thank you
27:45you

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