- 18 minutes ago
Sonia Gandhi's memoir triggers political row; Nvidia CEO under espionage scanner
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00Good evening, hello and welcome. You are with the news today. This is your primetime destination news, newsmakers, talking points.
00:06Our big talking point tonight is this book. Sonia Gandhi's autobiography has finally been released.
00:14What are the key takeaways? Sonia Gandhi's foreign origin, is it still relevant or does she belong very much to
00:25the soil of India now?
00:26We'll be talking to special guests on that, particularly those who've actually read the book like me.
00:34And also the NVIDIA espionage case that's threatening global security and the Trump administration.
00:42How does it impact the AI race and what's the future of the NVIDIA boss?
00:47But first, as always, it's time for the nine headlines at nine.
00:53Sonia Gandhi's recently published memoir out today.
00:58The BJP quickly targets Sonia Gandhi on 84 violence and the Babri Masjid demolition.
01:05Congress claims BJP flagging unnecessary issues for political gains, insists that the biography is honest and a personal memoir.
01:17Missing Diwali pollution data finally released by the Delhi government.
01:22Unprecedented AQI spike on Diwali night across the capital.
01:26AAP uses the data to claim stubble burning contribution was just 5% on Diwali day.
01:37Fresh controversy erupts after a Samajwadi party MP defends the firing on Karsevaks in 1990.
01:44Kin of the Karsevaks rain fire on the party.
01:47BJP wants an apology from Akhilesh Yadav ahead of his Ayodhya visit next month.
01:55DMK chief MK Stalin lashes out at the TN government over law and order, calls Vijay an incompetent chief minister
02:03over 11 murders in a day.
02:05Tamil Nadu minister cites last year data of murders on Diwali to counter the DMK's charge.
02:13The ruling Mahayuti wins the high-profile Gokul Derry cooperative chairman election in Kolhapur.
02:20NCP MLA beats the opposition MVA after he receives 16 votes.
02:26Opposition alleges Fudnavist government a foul play by nominating directors with voting rights
02:32after originally the government had lost the board election.
02:39Days after firing on actor Tiger Shrub, Mumbai police issues a warning to Bollywood stars advises them
02:45to avoid appearing in public spaces amidst fans and to steer clear of crowded areas.
02:53Nvidia CEO Jensen Wang faces shareholder lawsuit alleging investors were misled about the spy affair.
03:00Reports suggest Alice Wang supplied chips to Megaspeed in Singapore.
03:05Beijing rejects the espionage charges.
03:10And US Secretary of War Peter Hexet pushes back against impeachment threats,
03:16insists no Secretary of War has been impeached for lawful military operation.
03:21Trump once again backs him even as Democrats say he will be impeached.
03:27Trouble mounts for ousted Bangladesh PM Sheikh Hasina.
03:31Bangladesh government says she has no legal option left but to face execution of her death sentence in Dhaka.
03:50But tonight's top story, Congress leader Sonia Gandhi's autobiography,
03:56Belonging, A Journey of Love, was finally released and is out in the bookstores.
04:01The book has made many revelations, many headlines, some of which were known in the past, some of which are
04:07new.
04:07Now, I had was lucky enough to get a PDF copy of this book two weeks ago.
04:14So managed to read the book, which is finally out.
04:17So I can claim to be one of the few news anchors to have actually read the 526 page book.
04:24At the very outset, therefore, I want to tell you what are the things I learned, the revelations from the
04:30book, for me at least.
04:32Number one, Sonia Gandhi's father wasn't keen or heard to go to India to meet Rajiv Gandhi after they had
04:41first met in Cambridge,
04:42much less to marry an Indian, even if he happened to be the then Prime Minister's son.
04:49Number two, and this is something I learned in the book, Sonia Gandhi and Rajiv Gandhi lost their first child
04:57soon after delivery in 1969.
05:01Sonia Gandhi was distraught and insisted that the child would not be thrown into the river as some were planning
05:08to.
05:09The child was instead buried in the Meheroli farmhouse of Feroz Gandhi instead.
05:15Takeaway number three, Rajiv Gandhi was firmly opposed to the emergency, according to Sonia Gandhi, unlike Sanjay Gandhi, who fully
05:26endorsed it.
05:27And when it was finally lifted in 1977, Rajiv was amongst those who persuaded his mother Indira Gandhi, insisting it
05:37was the right call she had taken.
05:41Number four, Rajiv Gandhi admitted that forcing out the then Foreign Secretary AP Venkateshwaran at a press conference when he
05:50was a Prime Minister was a blunder.
05:53He said this apparently in a personal conversation as per the book to Sonia Gandhi.
05:59Number five, revelation.
06:01Rahul Gandhi had a premonition, according to the book, of his father's death two months before it happened in 1991.
06:08He was leaving for America where he was studying and he warned that he could soon be back and said
06:15that the lax security would be fatal for his father.
06:20Number six, revelation.
06:22Sonia Gandhi experienced dark suicidal moments after Rajiv's assassination in May 1991.
06:31But when her sister tried to persuade her to return to Italy, Sonia Gandhi said a firm no, saying India
06:40was the country of her family.
06:42She belonged to India.
06:44Through all these years, though, very interestingly, Sonia Gandhi reveals that she has never seen or got down to seeing
06:51any pictures of Rajiv Gandhi's dead body.
06:57Revelation, next revelation.
06:59When the Babri Masjid was demolished in 1992, Sonia Gandhi says she was distraught and became teary-eyed watching the
07:07pictures on TV.
07:10Another revelation.
07:11When Sonia Gandhi finally decided to turn to politics in 1998, after having opposed her husband's entry, she turned to
07:21readings and guidance from the Bhagavad Gita before she decided to take the plunge.
07:28She also admits in the book that there was a fleeting moment in May 2004 when she was almost pressurized
07:36into accepting the Prime Minister's job by her fellow congresspersons.
07:41But her children, Rahul and Priyanka, firmly told her not to do it.
07:46And that's when she, in a way, responded, as she claims, to her inner voice.
07:51Another revelation, Pranam Mukherjee, the former president, in 2010, suggested to Sonia Gandhi that there was a need for a
08:01change at the top.
08:03This was when Manmohan Singh was Prime Minister, remember?
08:06And Sonia Gandhi says it shocked her and it suggested that Pranam Mukherjee was looking for the top job.
08:14Sonia Gandhi also, at a personal note, reveals that she has had two surgeries now for cancer.
08:20One for breast in Turin, the other for pancreatic cancer in Rotterdam.
08:27So that's what the book reveals.
08:29What does the book now not tell us in great detail?
08:33Number one, what went wrong between the Gandhis and the Bachans?
08:38In fact, in the book, Sonia Gandhi says that Teji Bachan, Amitabh Bachan's mother was among those who really gave
08:46her a lot of comfort in her early years in India.
08:49Remember, the families went on holidays together and then something went horribly wrong.
08:54What went wrong?
08:55Sonia Gandhi doesn't tell us that.
08:57What really happened behind the scenes during the Bofor saga?
09:01There is certainly no mention of Otavio Quattroki.
09:04Many believe he was one of the major beneficiaries of his proximity to the Gandhi family at the time.
09:13We also don't know from the book why did relations between Sonia Gandhi and Narsimha Rao break down to the
09:21point where, remember, Mr. Rao's body was not even allowed at the Congress headquarters after he passed away.
09:28We also don't know from the book who was the close Congress leader who Sonia Gandhi refers to who misled
09:35her during the push for power in 1999 when the Vajpayee government fell and Sonia Gandhi suggests that she had
09:43272 MPs.
09:46We also don't really get to know what went so horribly wrong with UPA2 that eventually led to that government
09:54falling and Narendra Modi taking over in 2014.
09:58To be honest, therefore, this isn't quite a tell-all biography but more a personal memoir where the personal seems
10:06to matter even more at times than the political.
10:09And that's the question I want to pose. Is Sonia Gandhi's book, at the end of the day, more personal
10:15than political?
10:16What are the biggest takeaways from the book for a reader? How will history judge Sonia Gandhi? Harshly or fairly?
10:24My first guest is someone who, like me, has read the book and, in fact, interviewed Sonia Gandhi only last
10:31week.
10:32N. Ram, director of the Hindu Publishing Group, former editor-in-chief of the group, also joins me.
10:37Mr. Ram, let's start with the book itself and your first key takeaways.
10:42What, for you, while reading the book, were your key takeaways?
10:46I think the first thing that struck me, even took me by surprise, was how candid it was at a
10:54personal level but equally political level.
10:56Because the personal and the political merged when, as a young bride, she moved into her husband's family, Rajiv Gandhi's
11:03family.
11:03And then, you know, straight away you find this extremely powerful leader, Indra Gandhi, as your mother-in-law.
11:10And therefore, you can never escape politics.
11:12But there are rare insights into the personal, the personal relationships that surprise me.
11:19And I think it's extremely candid and, therefore, sincere and truthful.
11:24That really struck me while reading the book.
11:27No, I think you could have easily expected somebody with Sonia Gandhi's political background to do a sanitized autobiography.
11:34But I think she probably reasoned.
11:37In fact, she posted on X, formerly Twitter.
11:43Others have tried to tell my story.
11:46I've told my story within quotes.
11:49It's now my turn.
11:51And there are a number of books, including biographies, about her.
11:55And she says they didn't quite, they didn't get it.
11:57All this while, she once discussed it with Rajiv Gandhi, her husband, and they decided not to do anything about
12:04it.
12:04She says she didn't even read these books.
12:08But once you write an autobiography, Rajiv, you have written several books.
12:14If it's to appeal to people, if it is to sound sincere, then it must be truthful.
12:23Of course, there are areas you won't get into.
12:25It's entirely the business of the author, what areas he or she wants to touch upon and what not to
12:32do.
12:32That's entirely their business.
12:34But unless you take up a subject, you go deep into it and tell the truth, be candid, I think
12:41it's not going to be a good autobiography.
12:43Can I just push you for a moment?
12:46While reading the book, and I interestingly read it almost back to front,
12:51when I read first the chapter starting with Rajiv Gandhi's assassination and then the political parts and then went to
12:56the personal,
12:57I found her very candid when she's speaking about the personal, about her relationships, both with her family in Italy,
13:04also with Indira Gandhi, Rajiv Gandhi, the dynamics in the Gandhi household.
13:12But she's a little cautious when she's speaking about politics.
13:16Did you sense that she could have perhaps revealed much more, for example, as I said,
13:21what went wrong between her and Narsimha Rao?
13:24How did that Bofor saga quite unfold?
13:27You know that saga better than most.
13:29Do you believe that she was hesitant because she is still, in a way, in public life?
13:34And, you know, she still is stewarding the Congress Party of which Rahul Gandhi is the leader today.
13:40So she was conscious of that.
13:42Yes, she must be very conscious of that, although she sees herself as largely, you know, everything is behind her,
13:49so politically speaking, but she still has that residue, which I think is very important, looking at it.
13:56And she has to be, but that's also her style, Rajiv.
14:00She doesn't want to offend.
14:01The whole thing is written in a very dignified way.
14:04She's telling it directly about the BJP and RSS, but about others, including Sharad Power, for example,
14:10during that revolt in May of 19, I mean, in 1999, I think she's being, I wouldn't say prudent,
14:18she's being thoughtful and seeing what the consequence will be now.
14:24But as for Bofors, there's a, I read it very closely, as I have no doubt you did, a page
14:30and a bit.
14:31Basically, she says that Rajiv Gandhi had said no agents, no commissions, but they were agents, they took money.
14:37So the law should take its course, but Rajiv Gandhi declared in the highest forum of democracy,
14:45if he likes that phrase, parliament, that he was not involved and nobody in his family was involved in this.
14:51That's about it, about Bofors.
14:55So it's not satisfactory for those who want to learn about Bofors and what the response was,
15:03but that's how the autobiographer has played it, and you've got to accept it.
15:08Sure. I mean, you know, the fact is that, in a way, do you think this book is about Sonia
15:14Gandhi wanting to tell her story?
15:15Because for the longest time, perhaps she never felt fully accepted.
15:19The whole foreign origins issue dogged her political career in particular,
15:24so she felt it was necessary to set the record straight, which is why the personal becomes so important.
15:29I cite the instance of her sister telling her to leave the country after Rajiv's assassination,
15:34and she says, no, this is my land, and, you know, I am emotionally attached to being in India.
15:40So there is that differentiation that she makes at that moment, and that's what she wants to,
15:45is that the message that she wants to send through the memoir to those who've always questioned her on the
15:51foreign origins issue?
15:53Yes, I think she faced an awful lot of nastiness right through, from the time she moved to India.
15:59She gives, you know, she talks about, very frankly, about the rumors about that.
16:03I'm not going to repeat them here, but very, very nasty things said about her,
16:07even before the social age of the social media.
16:09And they decided not to read any of this.
16:13That's the only way you can survive, I guess.
16:16But on the question of belonging, that's what it's all about.
16:25And that's why she's so hurt when Sangma, Tariq Anwar, and Sharad Pawar,
16:31some of the people, she says, asked her to take up the post of Congress president in 1998.
16:39After she came into public life and politics, they then, she says,
16:44I was not upset because they didn't want me to occupy high office.
16:50I was very hurt and upset that I trusted them, they didn't trust me.
16:55They still saw me as an outsider after so many years.
16:58And there, I think, the sense of belonging is very powerful and really asserts itself.
17:05She's become Indian, she's acquired Indian citizenship lawfully.
17:09And these people are beginning to, you know, distrust her.
17:16Distrust her as an outsider who's trying to take away our, you know, this reward of high office.
17:24But does she answer the other big criticism, Mr. Ram, over the years which she's faced,
17:29which is dynasty, that she institutionalized dynasty, the family became the party.
17:33Now, many would say this stretches back to Indira Gandhi,
17:35who anointed in a way Sanjay Gandhi and later Rajiv as her heirs.
17:39But that's the, apart from foreign origins, what has often dogged her is dynasty.
17:44Do you believe she's able to address that question or she seems to stay away from that
17:49because that, again, becomes very contentious?
17:52Although she admits that she did not oppose Rahul Gandhi joining politics
17:57in the way that she opposed Rajiv Gandhi joining politics, which I found rather interesting.
18:02Yes, Rajdeep, you've given the answer yourself on this.
18:06I don't think she was responsible for any of this.
18:11And the moment after Sanjay Gandhi died and Rajiv was being pressured,
18:16largely by his mother, to come in, but also others in the party,
18:21he was very personable, he was charismatic.
18:24So I think he was much wanted in the party.
18:27But she opposed it tooth and nail, and she speaks about the period of tension
18:32when they really fought each other.
18:34And finally, she gave in, because why?
18:39I think she had this feeling that death would come sooner or later.
18:44They were fated to die, sort of thing, after Indira Gandhi's assassination,
18:48virtually certain, and therefore she opposed it.
18:53And as for Rahul, so I think she can't be accused of doing anything by, you know,
19:00to push the dynasty.
19:01I don't think she can, she had any active role in, in fact, on the contrary,
19:06of getting Rajiv Gandhi into politics.
19:09And as for Rahul, she didn't resist it the way she did her husband's entry into politics,
19:15because she still had that fear, but the call of duty.
19:21There's a tension between, between this fear that you'll be,
19:26another sacrifice will be required, because there's a family which made many sacrifices.
19:31She speaks about it during a visit to Anand Bhavan and so on.
19:34And you want to make another sacrifice.
19:37And as against this, the sense of duty, which was also part, Rajiv, of her own upbringing.
19:44She talks about it, you know, loyalty to family and friends, feeling for others,
19:50and sense of duty and discipline.
19:53So all these things come together.
19:56And I think she, in all fairness, Sonia Gandhi is one member of the family
20:01who's not really responsible for this dynastic, this desire for dynastic succession.
20:09You know, I want to ask you in conclusion, she comes in her political beliefs,
20:15the one belief that seems to, she seems to be convinced about,
20:18perhaps even more than other members of the Gandhi, is the fight against communalism.
20:22That, you know, that is, according to her, her,
20:26one of the reasons why she entered politics, she says.
20:29Because she could see, she said, the BJP RSS growing in her view.
20:32She saw them as communists.
20:34She speaks about getting teary-eyed after the Babri Majid was demolished.
20:38And contrasts it with, in 1984, because, you know,
20:42the Congress Party's been attacked on the Sikh pogrom, she says,
20:46referring to Rajiv, while his heart held no bigotry or rancor,
20:50there is no denying that he was thrust into a moment of the country's history
20:53when effective governance had founded and barbaric acts followed.
20:58And she says, I had become, in my state of disorientation,
21:02this is after Indira Gandhi's death, I had become empty of tears,
21:05benumbed by the experience of violence that had uprooted me.
21:09Do you believe that that now will be, I mean, in terms of her political beliefs,
21:15does she come across in this book for you as someone who really believes,
21:21if not in anything else, apart from family duty,
21:25to this concept of being tough on communism?
21:28Much more than even maybe other Gandhis.
21:32Yes, I fully agree with that, that she's very secular.
21:36She believes in democracy, but it has to be secular.
21:38And coming from the kind of small-town background she had,
21:41it's really a reflection on how much she had learned
21:46by moving into this family and absorbing everything that life in India gave us.
21:52So I think, in fact, in the book, she refers to compromises
21:57which sat heavily on her conscience.
22:01So I asked her, what were these compromises?
22:05And the one answer she gave is, there were some people in the party
22:09who thought that we shouldn't be so black and white on the issue of secularism.
22:14Black and white on the issue of secularism.
22:16And there have been plenty of people in the Congress who believed in that.
22:21But then she says that's not the party's policy.
22:23She's behind the party's policy.
22:26Maybe she was inspired by Jawaharlal Nehru more than anyone else.
22:30I don't know about that.
22:31But she's very, very outright secular.
22:34And she says, whatever the...
22:37I mean, there was a question I asked about the decline of the Congress.
22:40Whatever we did, basically, this is a lot of words.
22:43We had no truck with the BJP and the RSS.
22:46And we never will.
22:49And for the reason you mentioned, communalism, Hindutva.
22:52You know, it's interesting.
22:54In conclusion, and a quick answer on this.
22:56Given what the book says, with the personal, as I said,
22:59I believe dominating the political.
23:02Are you surprised that Penguin Random House
23:04did not choose initially to publish it
23:06after having been given the right that eventually it's HarperCollins?
23:09Does that, in a way, suggest that
23:11they were more worried about the fact that Sonia Gandhi was writing a book
23:15and how the government would respond
23:18rather than looking at it purely from just what was written?
23:22She didn't want to enter into those controversies when I asked her.
23:26But is there any...
23:27That can be the only reason.
23:29Because, you know, who on earth wouldn't have published it?
23:32And they had it all themselves.
23:34The Penguin International is where the arms are publishing it.
23:38So there can be no other conclusion,
23:41although she wouldn't go on record on this.
23:45Radzi, in Greek philosophy, there's something called akrasia.
23:49A-K-R-A-S-I-A.
23:50You do something that you know is wrong.
23:53You do something that you know is not for your own good.
23:56And yet you do it.
23:57Penguin did it.
23:59Penguin Random House did it.
24:01And I don't think they'll come out
24:03smelling like roses in the publishing world after this.
24:09Enram, for joining me on the book.
24:12And as I said, you're one of the few editors who's already read the book.
24:14Therefore, it was important to get you on the show.
24:16You did that interview with Sonia Gandhi last week.
24:19Thank you very much for joining me here on the show tonight.
24:22Thank you, Radzi.
24:23The politics is playing out, though.
24:26Sonia Gandhi's memoir, which hit the stands,
24:29which reveals why she turned down the Prime Minister's post in 2004.
24:32She talks about Babri Masjid and the other challenges.
24:36There are revelations that will stir up a political storm.
24:39And the opposition, or rather the BJP in this case,
24:44the ruling party, is making sure that they try and take maximum political mileage.
24:50Take a look.
24:59Sonia Gandhi's long-awaited memoir,
25:02Belonging, A Journey of Love, hit the stands on Tuesday.
25:05The book reveals many aspects of her life and political career in India,
25:10a country she adopted after marrying Rajiv Gandhi.
25:14For the first time, Sonia Gandhi opens up on her decision
25:17to reject the Prime Minister's post in 2004
25:21after the UPA won the Lok Sabha elections,
25:24a call she had famously described then as listening to her inner voice.
25:30In the book, Sonia Gandhi says months before the election,
25:33she had discussed the issue of Prime Ministership
25:36with Rahul Gandhi and Priyanka Gandhi.
25:38She had decided she will not take up the Prime Minister's job
25:42and her children were also not in favour.
25:45But after the elections,
25:47under tremendous pressure from Congress leaders and allies,
25:50Sonia agreed, saying,
25:53Sonia Gandhi recounts that both Priyanka and Rahul were angry and hurt.
25:57The Congress leader claims she knew the BJP would use her foreign origin
26:02as an issue to stir up emotions but also did not want to abandon responsibility.
26:08Finally, she opted out, listening to her inner voice,
26:11announcing the decision at the Congress-Parliamentary party meeting
26:14held on May 18, 2004.
26:19The autobiography also reveals that in the second term of UPA,
26:24Pranam Mukherjee, who had differences with Chitambaram,
26:27raised the issue of leadership change in a conversation which shocked Sonia.
26:32Pranam's daughter, Sharmishtha Mukherjee, reacted to the claim, saying,
26:36and I quote,
26:37What is there to be shocked about?
26:39Is it a crime to be ambitious if it is supported by decades of experience
26:43in politics and governance?
26:45And I unquote.
26:47The book has also sparked a political row.
26:50The BJP has questioned her stand on 1984 anti-Sikh riots.
27:18It is a crime to be made in India.
27:22When you have a job, you can try to make a job in Punjab in a job that you can
27:32make a job that you can make a job that you can make a job in Punjab in a job.
27:38We have already said that the blue star operation for the first time is wrong.
27:46There is no doubt, there is no doubt, there is no doubt.
27:51Sonia Gandhi's autobiography, which makes many revelations, is also silent on some key chapters of a political career.
27:59The book for now finds itself in a political storm or tamasha as she had predicted in one of her
28:06teasers.
28:07Bureau Report, India Today.
28:12So let's widen the debate, raise more big questions. Are Sonia Gandhi's foreign origins still relevant?
28:17Has Sonia Gandhi been fully accepted by India's political class?
28:22Will Sonia's memoir have any political fallout, particularly in the context of 84 and 92?
28:28Rashid Kidwai, author and political commentator who has also written a book on Sonia Gandhi joins me.
28:33Rakesh Sina, former Rajasaba MP of the BJP joins me.
28:38Shakti Singh Goel, the former Congress MP and former leader of the opposition Gujarat with us.
28:44Thank you all very much for joining us.
28:45To you Rakesh Sina, how do you see Sonia Gandhi writing a biography?
28:50You are someone who perhaps looks at books very carefully.
28:53Do you believe that memoirs of this kind are important?
28:56At least she is trying to set the record straight, she says.
29:00Do you appreciate it or do you believe it is a whitewash?
29:04You know, writing autobiography is the personal discretion.
29:11It depends on the person how much and what they want to reveal.
29:15But the most important question is that about her biography.
29:19It is a carefully constructed narrative that just provides emanation to the security brigade.
29:29Nothing more than that.
29:30Because the most important question is what the narrative and the moral values you are transferring to the posterity.
29:39That is the essence of any biography.
29:42Otherwise, biography, your family affairs, your point of view of particular issues that are relevant to a particular context.
29:50But for decades and decades, just like Jawaharlani's biography, I appreciate it.
29:55Mahatma Gandhi's biography is fundamental to all generations.
29:59Here I am asking a very pertinent question.
30:03Rajdeep, can you disagree that the social and culture decline of the Congress to a considerable extent
30:09can be attributed to Sonia Gandhi's leadership?
30:12Because there is a very fundamental question.
30:15When PB Narasimha Rao was the Congress president, which he also mentioned while talking to N. Ram,
30:21just superficially mentioned about Narasimha Rao's name.
30:25But it is not the question of her relationship with Narasimha Rao.
30:28It is a very fundamental question that is related to the humanity, that is related to the sentiment, that is
30:32related to the cultural values ethos.
30:34His mortals remained outside the Congress headquarters for half an hour.
30:41It was not allowed to enter.
30:43So Sonia Gandhi must communicate to the future generation what was the reason.
30:49Is it a part of Indian tradition?
30:52I have no question that she has integrated with the Indian political class.
30:57But can we compare with Bhagini Nivedita, Sister Nivedita, Margaret Elizabeth Nobel, who is known as Sister Nivedita?
31:03Or mother Mira Alphonse?
31:06Or any Basant?
31:07Or Mira Ben?
31:09Nobody is questioning.
31:10Because it is a question of integration in the social, cultural milieu of the country.
31:14I have heard you carefully, sir.
31:16I have heard you carefully.
31:18Sir, you have raised an important point.
31:19Allow Shakti.
31:20One question.
31:21One question.
31:22Yes.
31:24Go ahead.
31:25Ask your question quickly.
31:26One second.
31:27One question.
31:27About the emergency.
31:29About the emergency.
31:30Just 30 seconds.
31:31About the emergency.
31:33She says that it was accidental or Indira Gandhi was influenced by the others.
31:40But, you know, the president of Rishi leads to the president of India.
31:44Fakhruddin Ali Hamas signed first and the cabinet meeting took later.
31:48How she is trying to, this narrative is just to fulfill the present agenda.
31:53This is the present agenda.
31:56And the country is not interested in her social and family life.
32:01Sir, I have heard you carefully.
32:03Mr. Aken Sina, you see, sir, this is not a monologue, sir.
32:09Jitendra Prasad and Rajesh pilot were treated.
32:13Yeah, you know, let Shakti Singh Goel respond.
32:16Shakti Singh Goel, the point that is being made by Rakesh Sina is the,
32:20how the Congress has changed its character according to Rakesh Sina under Sonia Gandhi.
32:26He was going to refer to Jitendra Prasad and Rajesh pilot,
32:28the way they were, according to him, sidelined.
32:31Narsimha Ra was prime minister, was effectively sidelined.
32:35She made the, according to him, the family, the center of the party and her universe.
32:41And that, according to Rakesh Sina has destroyed the cultural and social ethos of the Congress party.
32:47And she doesn't answer those questions.
32:49She keeps away from that.
32:50Your response.
32:55Radhi Bhai, I will answer those questions.
32:58But first of all, we are discussing the book.
33:00You have spent lots of years in Gujarat.
33:03So, I consider you as a Gujarati.
33:06You are Gujarati, I am Gujarati.
33:08And in Gujarat, it is very well said,
33:12Putrana Paranama and Vahuna Baranama.
33:15So, if you want to judge a person, then see the cradle.
33:19And you will realize that what he will be or she will be.
33:23And if you want to judge or have an opinion about the bride,
33:27see her first step when she enters in the house.
33:31In the same way, if you want to judge an author or a book,
33:36you will have to see the first few lines or the beginning.
33:42Here, this is the book written by Mrs. Sonia Gandhi.
33:47And what is the start?
33:50She chose the lines from Rig Veda, Mandala 10, Sayukta 191, verse 2 and 4.
33:59And she wrote in the beginning,
34:01Move together, speak together, let your minds be in conquered,
34:09united be your purpose, harmonious be in your hearts,
34:14calculated be your thoughts so that you can dwell together in wholeness.
34:21Lines from Rig Veda.
34:22This she chose in the beginning.
34:25She may have chosen that, but you are not answering the question.
34:28No, no.
34:30Sir, Rakeh Sina is raising, he says,
34:32I am coming to that.
34:33A book should be able to correct all the notion that the likes of Rakeh Sina have about Sonia Gandhi.
34:42And he says that hasn't happened.
34:44How the Congress party has changed, he says, under her leadership.
34:51Look, when Sonia Gandhiji has took over as a Congress president, I am witness to it.
35:00Kolkata Adhivation and thereafter in the political scenario, Congress was losing everywhere.
35:07And it was not that Congress had any chance to come in power.
35:12In those difficult days, big Congress leaders have requested and thereafter she decided to took over.
35:21And during Narsimha Rao's period, I was a minister in Gujarat.
35:26She never interfered with any political business.
35:30I was close to her, Rajivji.
35:33Rajivji was the person who gave me tickets without asking for that.
35:36Sir, Narsimha Rao eventually did.
35:38I was elected from Gujarat.
35:40No, no.
35:40But Narsimha Rao's body was, it is true that his mortal remains were never allowed inside the Congress headquarters.
35:46It is also true that Sitaram Kesri was pushed aside.
35:51Now she says she went and touched.
35:52In the book she says when she was taking over, she touched his toes to take his blessings.
35:57She says that in the book.
35:59However, there is a narrative that the BJP has spun that it was a coup against Kesri.
36:03So look at the graciousness.
36:04And Surya Gandhi was part of a coup to remove him.
36:09No, not at all.
36:11That was Congress leaders who pressurized and forced her to take the responsibility to save the Congress party.
36:18And so many leaders met her.
36:22I was also in one group.
36:24I also met her after the Calcutta Adivation.
36:27And in 1998, first she, what responsibility?
36:31Sitaram Kesri ji had also requested her to take the responsibility to travel all over the country.
36:37And in 1998, Parliament election, responsibility was given to canvas for the party.
36:45Sonia ji came to Bhavnagar also.
36:47I was on the dais.
36:48And she canvassed in the entire country without any expectation, without any position, without any political motive.
36:56Okay.
36:57But when she realized that so many workers and leaders wanted her to take the responsibility, very rightly she quoted
37:05that Gita ji, Gita ji was her guidance.
37:11She read Gita ji.
37:12And in Gita, Bhagavan Shri Krishna had said, karma ni theory, whatever responsibility you can't run away.
37:22Sir, Goyal ji, I've heard you also.
37:23In the difficult time of the Congress party, she took the responsibility.
37:27You're saying that she took the responsibility as an act of public duty.
37:31According to Rakesh Sina, it's very different.
37:34It was a virtual takeover of the Congress party and many people were sidelined.
37:38Now, Rashid Kidwai, do you get a sense that Sonia Gandhi has addressed all these questions in the book successfully?
37:44That all her critics, when they read the book, will they feel that I told you so?
37:50Or will they say, oh, wow, Sonia Gandhi has addressed my criticisms?
37:55I think Sonia Gandhi has dealt all the issues under the sun and in rather, you know, deathful manner.
38:02She has been very civil.
38:04She has not tried to, you know, upset anybody other than, of course, her own political opponents.
38:09And I think she has put her records straight.
38:11Rajiv, you have seen, you have covered all the, you know, Sonia years,
38:15that there were a lot of gaps and questions who were there.
38:17Sometimes networking wrote something, some other leaders had made some observations at all.
38:22And she has tried to put, you know, that such record straight.
38:25The issue of her foreign origins actually continued to upset her.
38:29She has written and I find that most revealing part in this book where she refers to the Chintan Shiver
38:34of 2004.
38:35Maybe Shafi Singh Ji was there.
38:37And there Sonia Gandhi has written that they were still deliberating that, you know,
38:40who should be the leader of the Congress in 2004.
38:44And Sonia Gandhi recalls that she asked that thing that why, you know, why is it not her?
38:48Because, you know, she's a Congress president and she's, you know, all over the country.
38:52Rajiv, you know, at that point of time.
38:54She was never fully accepted.
38:55She seems to suggest that she was heard that she was never fully being accepted even in 2004.
39:00And I think that's the upshot of it.
39:03That it's not about, you know, and that explains why she did not become Prime Minister.
39:07Because she didn't want to become a subject of controversy.
39:10And have all kind of agitations.
39:12And the BJP would have been very good at agitation.
39:15So that's why she backed out.
39:16But you see, Rashid Kidwai, what will also be seen as an interpretation is that while she says she, and
39:24the BJP has already latched onto it.
39:27That she broke down during 1980, 1992, watching the Babri Masjid being demolished.
39:33They are going to contrast that with 84.
39:35Although, as I said in 84 also, she said, I had become empty of tears, benumbed by the experience of
39:40the violence that had uprooted me.
39:42Punjab is going to the polls.
39:43When a leader who is still in public life writes a memoir, and you've written a column on this,
39:48the political fallout will have to be borne by the rest of the party.
39:53Yes.
39:53I think, but Radhi, the care has been taken.
39:56Because, you know, ignorance cannot be substituted to everything.
39:58What was Mr. LK Advani's reaction to 6 December 1992 demolition?
40:03He said, it is the saddest day of my life.
40:05Was Mr. Advani trying to cultivate, you know, the Muslim military threat?
40:08What was the response of Mr. Atal Bahari Pachmai in the floor of the house?
40:12Radhi, we were there that day on Lok Sabha.
40:14He said, this is very unfortunate.
40:16The deposition before, you know, the Librarian Commission, CBI, by all the BJP stalwarts.
40:21But is she opening old wounds?
40:23Is she opening old wounds as a result which the BJP as a political party will feel perfectly entitled to
40:29exploit?
40:31Radhi, you know, you know the Gen Z.
40:34The Gen Z is least bothered about these issues.
40:36This is all things that are, you know, kind of point of interest for anybody who's above 40 or so.
40:41I don't think it's going to make, if a book was going to make an impact in India, I would
40:45have been happiest person.
40:46But unfortunately, no, no, not at all.
40:49The BJP is helping, you know, the boost of that, you know, the book sale in a grand manner.
40:55That's the BJP's contribution.
40:57Okay, you know, you want to respond there, Rakesh Sina, that already I see BJP contrasting.
41:04Why didn't Sonia Gandhi break down in 84? Why did she break down?
41:09And many of you have not even read the book.
41:11You see, what I find amusing about what has been happening, the reaction, people are not even reading the book
41:16and have already decided she's also written about 84.
41:19Yes.
41:20But nobody's reading that. The problem is you've already, without reading the book, you've already made political statements.
41:25No, no, no, no, no. Shakti Singh, please let Mr. Sina respond.
41:32Rajdeep, you are a serious commentator, though I disagree with many of your ideas and points.
41:38But I have one question to you, all these three people. What is her social and political contribution except promoting
41:46dynasty?
41:46And I was surprised, I was listening carefully to N.R.A.M., which is a very renowned and very
41:53thoughtful editor.
41:54And I have great respect for him.
41:56But at that time, I remember Babasav Ambedkar who said that unless until Indians would abandon the hero worship, Indian
42:04democracy can't progress.
42:06This has killed the Congress. Uncritical things.
42:10What's Sonia Gandhi's new Bible for the political agenda? What she's communicating to the posterity?
42:18That she has done immense damage to the cultural milieu? That you disagree a person and after death you humiliate
42:26the mortal?
42:27What she had done? That there was a curfew in the Congress headquarter when Jitendra Prasad and Rajesh Pilate were
42:33contesting election?
42:34This was the progress of democracy? Can Congress generate confidence among the new generation due to these reasons?
42:43Had Sonia Gandhi said that she confessed that she had done wrong, then she would have been worshipped like that
42:52by people.
42:54Okay, I've heard you. Sir, Rakejji, I've heard you again. Interpreting the past in the present political context.
43:01Yes. Okay. You know, in the present political context, Shakti Singh Goel, for example, the fact is the BJP is
43:06the party number one.
43:08Sonia Gandhi was your longest serving party president. Yes, ten years you all were in a coalition government.
43:14But the BJP today is the dominant party. They won three consecutive elections.
43:18Should there be more reflection and introspection as to what went wrong?
43:22And perhaps maybe a memoir can't reflect that. Maybe someone else has to write that.
43:28But is there a realization within your party? According to Rakej Sina, it is bhakti, if I may use the
43:34word, or hero worship that's going on, or psychophancy.
43:41Yes, sir, and bhakti is going on in BJP. So, he may say whatever he wants to say. The reality
43:47is that in Congress party, there is a democracy.
43:49Sonia Gandhiji fought election for Congress president. There was a free, fair and fearless voting. Even the contesting candidate had
43:59said that very free, fair and fearless election within Congress party and with a huge margin.
44:06Sir, she got 99% of the votes at that time, if I recall, well over 90% of the
44:11votes. No, no, are you saying that the Congress party, are you saying Congress party is more democratic at the
44:17moment under Sonia than the BJP under Modi?
44:19Are you saying Congress party under Sonia Gandhi is more democratic than BJP under Modi?
44:27100% under Rahul Gandhiji, Sonia Gandhiji or any Congress president. Even today, the Congress is more democratic rather than
44:37a dictatorship of Modi and Amit Shah.
44:39What I want to add is that Sonia Gandhiji has, she took a, she took a, she took a interest
44:47and whatever was in the manifesto in the Congress during UPA 1 and UPA 2, that was she who took
44:54interest and made sure that whatever was the promise,
44:57whether it was RTI, food security bill, right on forest land, this everything, she was taking interest and she was
45:06insisting without interfering with the government day in and day out business, but whatever was in the manifesto.
45:13I've listened to you. Shakti Singhji, I've listened to you. I just want Rashid to give a final word. Rashid,
45:18the central question I pose is foreign origin still relevant?
45:21When Sonia Gandhi says belonging as the headline, it's almost as if she wants this book to be seen as
45:28her attempt to convince the Indian people that she's emotionally attached to this land.
45:33Has she succeeded in that or not? A quick answer.
45:37Absolutely. I think she has succeeded and that has been her quest.
45:40But just very quickly, I want to respond to what Mr. Rakesh Chena was saying. What is her contribution?
45:45That throughout UPA she, you know, followed and she's written in this book also that we've got the government, UPA
45:51was supported by the left.
45:52So she brought in Dr. Manmoh Singh. So the economic right and social left, that kind of template she built.
45:58And that is what Prime Minister Nareem Modi is doing.
46:01And he's doing even great success. But by 2014 it had disintegrated. By 2014 it had disintegrated.
46:0610 years in power it disintegrated. And many would say contributed eventually the fall of UPA too contributed to the
46:13rise of Mr. Modi.
46:14I'm not saying that has to be part of a memoir. But that has to be part of political analysis
46:18for sure.
46:19But Mr. Modi can do that. He's also doing the same thing. So much of welfareism and, you know, economic
46:23right and social left.
46:24This is the same template that, you know, Manmoh Singh and Sonia Gandhi were doing. So that is her contribution.
46:31Okay. I'm going to leave it there. We could, we'll have a wider debate. Hopefully by then everyone will have
46:36read the book or those who come on the shows will have read the book.
46:39So we can contribute even more meaningfully to the dialogue. But Shakti Singh Goyal, Rakesh Sinha, Rashid Kidwai for joining
46:46me on this special. Thank you very much.
46:49The big story, the other big story, NVIDIA CEO Jensen Wang is facing a major controversy amidst allegations of a
46:55possible Chinese intelligence honey trap.
46:58China has dismissed the espionage allegations as completely baseless.
47:01But U.S. President Donald Trump, who is backing Jensen Wang, finds himself increasingly in a spot of bother claiming
47:08he had no knowledge of her alleged activities.
47:11NVIDIA's board has ordered an independent investigation. An FBI investigation is also underway in the case.
47:19It has come to light. Jensen Wang reportedly hired consultants from a PR firm Heller as early as October 2025.
47:27At the same time, he was first linked to a suspected Chinese spy.
47:31The PR firm Heller is known for handling sex scandals.
47:35What does this mean? Why is this such a big story? Let's find out.
47:44So how serious are the revelations in this NVIDIA case?
47:50Joining me now is Edward Luce, the national editor of the Financial Times in the United States.
47:55Good to have you, Mr. Luce, on the show.
47:59How big could this get? With every passing day, we're getting new revelations coming out,
48:06even suggestions that possibly the Chinese businesswoman with whom the NVIDIA CEO Jensen Wang had an affair,
48:15could have facilitated the shipment of at least $7.5 billion worth of the company ships to Chinese firms.
48:23Now, these are all, of course, unconfirmed, but those are the kind of reports that are coming in.
48:27So how big could this get?
48:30It could get a lot bigger on a couple of fronts.
48:33First is, of course, for Jensen Wang himself, who is being investigated by his company.
48:39Now, there's some skepticism as to whether they'll do anything about it because he founded the company and he is
48:45sort of the dominant figure.
48:48More serious, I think, is the fact that President Trump was given information that he'd been having an affair,
48:55that Wang had been having an affair with a Chinese intelligence agent, Alice Wang, no relation, and did nothing about
49:05it.
49:05And this was about a year ago, and there were follow-up reports, and he said he knew nothing about
49:10it.
49:10Now, over that same period of time, Trump issued waivers for NVIDIA to export very high-end AI processor chips
49:20to China,
49:22waivers that caused real controversy here in Washington and some head-scratching.
49:27And at the same time, NVIDIA donated $20, $25 million or so to the Trump ballroom.
49:35So there's a lot of politics in this, and there's a lot of national security in it as well.
49:41So what you're saying, Edward, is that this may not be limited to Jensen Wang and his corporate accountability and
49:50responsibility,
49:51but this could now involve the Trump White House as well.
49:55And it couldn't come at a worse time, given just what's happened to Donald Trump in the midterm polls.
50:01It couldn't. I mean, a lot of what the Democrats ran on and won on,
50:05and are going to govern on from the first branch of government, from Congress, is corruption.
50:12There's going to be intense corruption investigations, subpoenas flying.
50:17And this is a gift for them because they can both, you know,
50:22allege that Trump turned a blind eye to a serious question of national security because he was being funded,
50:28because he was getting donations from Jensen Wang or from NVIDIA.
50:33But they can also link it as a party, the Democratic Party, to national security and to basically being paid
50:43to turn a blind eye to China
50:45and China's whatever it is, theft or sanctions evasion or export limits that America has imposed to try to control
50:55China's military growth.
50:56So there is a ton of political juice in this for Democrats.
51:00And I've no doubt they will they will extract as much of it as they can.
51:04But but I want to understand, you know, the FTE is which you work for has also been breaking stories.
51:10Is it now confirmed or can we say with any certainty that Alice Wong was someone who possibly was working
51:17for the Chinese state of a Chinese firms?
51:20And possibly this was a honey trap and sophisticated espionage strategies to penetrate America's possibly most strategically important future technology
51:33company.
51:33Can we say with certainty that this was a Chinese operation or is it too early a premature to say
51:38that?
51:40We can say with certainty that the U.S. intelligence agencies believe that Alice Wong was a Chinese spy.
51:49Now, that's a different sentence to saying with certainty, because we're relying on the U.S. intelligence agencies, which do
51:57not have a perfect record.
51:59And so there is that. But the fact that this has come out and it's damaging to the boss of
52:07the intelligence agencies, Donald Trump, suggests there's some frustration there that he's done nothing about it.
52:14So I think we can sort of operate on the assumption that they think it's a honey trap.
52:22And there are good sort of reasons for thinking it might well be because China is, you know, has form
52:29in this regard.
52:33And you can watch the entire interview on India Today's digital channel.
52:39Just about enough time to leave you with our image of the day.
52:42Someone who was a true pioneer, activist, educationist Sanjit Bunker Roy died in Telonia in Rajasthan on Tuesday.
52:51He was 81 years old.
52:53Roy was known for setting up the revolutionary Barefoot College, which helped in the field of adult education, women's empowerment,
53:01skilling and solar electrification.
53:03And as a result, inspired many young people to go and work in the country's villages.
53:09In 2010, Time magazine included him in the list of 100 most influential personalities.
53:16He was truly, as I said, a pioneer, possibly even ahead of his times, an institutional builder.
53:24On that sombre note, I must leave you tonight.
53:27Thanks very much for watching.