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01:45Yes
01:46So we do have to take sides on issues from time to time
01:52That's unavoidable
01:54You mentioned that the superpowers, so we're talking China and the US
01:57Who are great allies for Thailand
02:00How do you balance that relationship though?
02:02You say you make it about the issues, not the countries
02:07Well the best way of balancing is to, you know, we have to consider what is in our interest
02:16You know, and what are the principles that we stand for
02:23And what we consider to be what is right
02:26Yes
02:28And if there are, when times come that you have to make a decision
02:33We do have to make a decision
02:35And maybe it goes one way
02:38And the other party might not like it
02:41But we hope that, you know, that they will respect us for having made that decision
02:48Rather than, you know, sitting on the wall, sitting on the fence
02:51China is Thailand's biggest trading partner
02:55How can that come into play, that diplomacy, when it is affecting your economics of the country?
03:01Well, both, if we were talking about China and the United States
03:05Both are important to Thailand
03:09China is a major economic partner
03:13It's our biggest trading partner
03:16Investment from China is growing
03:19Especially in electric vehicles, as you know
03:25The United States also has a lot of investment in Thailand
03:28You know, and at the same time
03:33The United States is important
03:35In terms of the security role that it plays in maintaining the balance of power
03:41Yes
03:41So, you know, for both countries
03:46Both countries are important partners of Thailand
03:49But I think the best way to maintain a balance
03:54Is to have, first, maintain strategic autonomy
03:58As much as we can
04:00Yes
04:00Second, have the freedom of choices
04:05That means, you know, it's not one or the other
04:07We have other major powers who have interests in the region
04:11India, rising power
04:14Yes
04:15Japan, still an economic powerhouse
04:18Korea, you know, coming up economically
04:21And Australia, which also has strong interest in the region
04:27So, sometimes balancing doesn't mean balancing between the two
04:32Right?
04:33And we are trying to engage constructively with all the two superpowers
04:38And also the other major powers
04:40Who also play a vital role in the region
04:45You have described ASEAN, which is the Association of Southeast Asian Nations
04:51As being at the heart of your country's foreign policy
04:55But the region is facing pressure from the U.S. and China
04:59Rivalry, there's the situation in Myanmar
05:01Tensions between its own members
05:03Do you think ASEAN is strong enough to shape events
05:07As opposed to being reactive to them here?
05:10Well, you know, I've been in the foreign ministry for 40 years
05:14I've seen, you know, how important ASEAN is to all the member states
05:21We were able to overcome many critical periods in the past
05:26Because we had ASEAN during the Cold War
05:29During the conflict in Cambodia
05:31Right?
05:33So all of us recognize that we're in this together
05:37Yes
05:37Maybe during the good days
05:40You know, when the situation is not like now
05:43We forgot about that a little bit
05:46But I think we realize that
05:49Now that we're confronted with many challenges
05:54We have to really pull our strength
05:57And, you know, the concept of ASEAN centrality is still there
06:03But maybe we have to take it further
06:06And enhance that concept
06:08Meaning that we have to raise the level of our regionalism
06:12That's important
06:13Because if we simply think about our national interests
06:16It's going to be difficult for us to pull our weight
06:19Right?
06:19Second, we must be resilient
06:22Resilient in terms of making sure that we, you know, we can react to situations quickly
06:29Yes
06:30You know, we still have this principle consensus
06:31It takes time
06:32But we have to do things more quickly
06:34Second, being resilient these days is economically
06:38It's also important
06:40We are a market of 700 million people
06:43We are integrating
06:45But we're not
06:45We have not integrated enough
06:47You mentioned Cambodia there
06:49What is the situation
06:51And how are relations at the moment?
06:53Well, you know
06:54We want to get beyond
06:56The conflict between our two countries
06:59And, you know, two countries living side by side
07:03We need to live together
07:05Yes
07:05But live together in a basis of mutual respect
07:10Mutual trust
07:11And mutual confidence
07:12Yes
07:13And that is the basis for us to develop our relations
07:17And certainly we cannot do it on our part
07:20We want to
07:22We hope that the Cambodian would, you know, join us in this effort
07:27We want to rebuild our relations
07:29But rebuilding also means that we have to, you know
07:34Put a stop to some of the
07:36What we see as acts of provocation
07:40Especially in the international forums
07:42Where, you know, Thailand seems to be targeted all the time
07:47On matters that are not related to the issues that we are dealing with
07:52So we are, you know, ready
07:55And any time that the Cambodian side is ready
07:59I'm sure we can take our relationship forward
08:01You and the Prime Minister have advocated calibrated re-engagement
08:07Gradually re-integrating Myanmar into ASEAN dialogue
08:12Some critics would argue that engaging with Myanmar's authorities risks legitimizing them
08:20Why do you believe that engagement is the best strategy for Thailand?
08:27Well, those critics, it's easy to criticize when you're not the neighboring country of Myanmar
08:34For us, it's not an academic exercise
08:37You know, we deal with the situation in Myanmar every day
08:41For the past five years along our border, right?
08:45And they've had election, not a perfect election
08:48But we believe that they must continue with the peace process
08:53And continue having talks with the opposition ethnic group
08:57So our position is clear that under this policy of recalibrated engagement
09:02Re-engagement, that means we want to bring Myanmar back to ASEAN
09:07Yeah
09:07But it takes, it has to be a step-by-step effort
09:10And they have to respond positively to our concern as well
09:16But a Myanmar that is isolated from ASEAN
09:20Is also not good in terms of geopolitics
09:23And our approach is first, definitely, you know, any neighboring country
09:28You have to deal with the border issues
09:31Border trade, border security, scam, operations, drugs, pollution in the waters, in the sky
09:41We have to talk with the government in Nepal
09:44But the other track, that means the situation
09:48We have not abandoned our hope that they will move forward
09:52And we have, you know, conveyed these messages all along
09:57But in the end, it's up to them
10:01It's up to them to make things work
10:04It's up to them to move forward with peace, you know, with dialogue
10:08So ultimately, it has to be a Myanmar-led, Myanmar-owned process inside the country
10:15We've talked about neighboring countries and the region here
10:20But looking further afield, how are you engaging more actively with partners in the EU, the UK, Australia
10:30You know, further afield as Canada
10:32You know, we live in a world where we see the rules-based international order breaking down
10:39The multilateral trading system, on which we depended so much, also breaking down
10:46Right
10:46Or not working
10:47And it's not just us looking at these partners
10:51It's these partners looking at us as well
10:54The Indo-Pacific is probably where we see much of the opportunities in trade investment
11:01And ASEAN is one of the pillars of the Indo-Pacific
11:06And so, I think there's a strong degree of mutual desire on both
11:11On the part of these countries and on the part of Thailand and ASEAN to enhance our relations
11:16How can Thailand make sure that it attracts investment from, you know, around the world
11:25So that you're not dependent on just one market?
11:27Well, first of all, as I mentioned, we're in a region that is very dynamic economically
11:34I've seen 700 million people
11:37But we're not, you know, we recognize that it's up to us as well
11:43To make ourselves attractive for investment
11:46I have to accept that the past few years, I think we, because of, you know, our politics had not
11:53settled down
11:54We could not push through some of the reforms that we, that are needed
11:58Now, you know, we're doing a lot of restructuring, reform, the economy, deregulation
12:04And also we're moving towards the new industries
12:07I think one important consideration that those who are coming to invest
12:11They think of, of course, the region, the market
12:14And now it's clean energy
12:18Yes
12:19Everybody talks about clean energy
12:21The new industry
12:22Because they want
12:23And so Thailand, you know, we're very much engaged in trying to develop our sources of clean energy
12:30Not just with Thailand, you know, we're working with Laos on hydropower
12:35Yeah
12:35And also my prime minister was in Singapore recently
12:40We talked about another clean energy hub involved in Singapore, Malaysia, and Thailand
12:45So we're trying to also make ourselves attractive to foreign investors
12:50We're seeing a lot of supply chains becoming increasingly reorganized around the world
12:58Is Thailand ready to adjust to those as they change?
13:02Definitely
13:02I think everybody talks about supply chains these days are not about cost
13:08It's about resilience
13:10Yes
13:11Resilience against all kinds of risk
13:13And I know one thing
13:15In my recent discussion with leaders of government
13:20Leaders of the private sector
13:23They're looking at the region
13:26And looking at Thailand
13:27Because in addition to our economic potential
13:32We're also considered to be a place where
13:36We're a strict geopolitically safe zone right now
13:40And that's why it's essential for us to maintain peace and stability in the region
13:47And, you know, I'm sure that many supply chains, this is uppermost in their consideration
13:54When they think about realignment
13:57With household debt sitting at 60% GDP
14:01And aging and also rapidly shrinking workforce
14:05How does Thailand move forwards and seize this moment to forge a path with economic certainty?
14:12Well, every country has its challenges
14:16And these are Thailand's challenges
14:20How do we approach with, you know, we approach it with a sense of can-do attitude
14:26I think we can resolve some of these challenges
14:30Because, you know, right now we've been given an upgrade by all the rating agencies
14:37Yes
14:38So we're handling our macroeconomic situation
14:41And we're mindful that, you know, we need to do some of the stimulus measures
14:47The impact from the Middle East crisis is still with us
14:50But at the same time, we're mindful that we cannot go beyond a certain ceiling
14:55And so, and secondly, we have to try to rely on domestic sources of borrowing as much as possible
15:04Yeah
15:04And the other, those, we're an aging society
15:10We have to ensure that those who are the retirees are not retiring
15:18They still have means to earn a living
15:20You know, we have programs so that they can upskill or reskill
15:25And also for the young people, you know, it's also essential that they also develop the skills that are needed
15:32In this age of digital economy, AI
15:36What would you like Thailand's global role to look like in five to ten years from now?
15:44Well, Thailand, I think everybody considers Thailand a nice, friendly country
15:50You still want to be that nice, friendly country
15:54Welcoming to foreign visitors
15:57You know, having, you know, all these attractions, Thai food
16:02But at the same time, we cannot be sitting still
16:06We have to modernize
16:08We have to make sure that our economy remains dynamic
16:13And that requires a lot of reform and restructuring
16:16We want to be seen as not just a nice country
16:21But also a dynamic country
16:23But most importantly, we want to be seen as a responsible country
16:27That means not just thinking of ourselves
16:30Thinking of the world
16:32Thinking of the international community
16:35How we can contribute to making the world peaceful, better and safer place
16:41We talk about global communities and governments coming together
16:46You know, what do you think is the first priority
16:50Which people need to address to make the world a better place?
16:54First, let's get the rule-based international system back on track
16:58Yeah
16:59We need international cooperation
17:01Because we face so many challenges
17:03You know, nobody can go it alone
17:05That's the first thing
17:06To restore multilateralism
17:10Second, of course, there are immediate challenges
17:13Like climate change
17:15We don't know what is the next black swan
17:19When another pandemic will happen
17:22But our main concern right now is
17:25The threats coming from cyberspace
17:28Yes
17:29You know, and these are transnational crime
17:32Of all sorts
17:34But our main concern right now
17:37Is the threat of online scams
17:40And this region is
17:42We have to admit is the center
17:44Thank you so much for joining us
17:45On the World Conversation on Euronews today
17:47What a pleasure to meet you
17:48Thank you very much
17:49Thank you
