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Humberto de la Calle, jefe negociador del Acuerdo de Paz con las Farc, exvicepresidente y excongresista, reflexiona sobre los desafíos que aún persisten tras 10 años de lo pactado en La Habana. Reconoce que la JEP debe acelerar su tarea y adelgazar su burocracia y asegura que el país aún no conoce claramente la política de seguridad del presidente Abelardo de la Espriella. Plantea por qué, desde su óptica, el exmandatario Gustavo Petro fue el artífice del principal freno a la implementación de lo negociado para terminar la guerra. “La paz total le causó un enorme daño a Colombia”, enfatiza.
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00:06Hello, greetings to all the viewers of El Espectador who are tuning in right now for a new episode of
00:12Interviews in El Espectador.
00:13I am Daniel Valero, the political editor of this publishing house, and today we are with Dr. Humberto de
00:20the Street,
00:21former vice president, former congressman, former Nadaist, and also the chief negotiator of the 2016 peace agreement,
00:29In other words, the country already knows you, Dr. de la Calle, welcome.
00:33Well, it's a pleasure, Daniel, delighted to greet you, the Spectator, and the technical team,
00:37and delighted to be able to talk with you about the many things that are happening in Colombia.
00:42Listen, that's what they used to say on TV to break the ice, are things getting really overwhelming these days?
00:49Yes, yes, it's just that opinions have become very radicalized, I think social media has made us that way,
00:56in quotation marks,
00:57It is the bad favor of distancing ourselves with increasing zeal, in a more intense way.
01:03These days people don't go on social media to see what others think,
01:07but to reaffirm their ideas and insult each other more and more, we become more separated and fragmented.
01:16as a society.
01:17Well, what one is seeing right now in Colombia seems a little sad to me.
01:21Because the world is changing, for better and for worse in some cases, artificial intelligence.
01:27Elon Musk says that money won't be needed soon, and he's no fool.
01:32In other words, the things Musk says, beyond the constant criticism he receives,
01:37These aren't the ramblings of a crazy person.
01:39And we're discussing some rather disgusting issues of public morality.
01:47Public discourse in Colombia is of a very low level.
01:51Sometimes one feels embarrassed in front of neighboring countries, that is, the tone of the discussion in Colombia.
01:57The national conversation is really very poor.
02:00Could it be that we lack that famous maturity? Did it never come to us, street doctor, as a society?
02:05Well, that goes up and down, doesn't it?
02:07Okay.
02:07And this same phenomenon is actually occurring all over the world.
02:12Let's say the blows to the rule of law, the growing difficulties of democracy,
02:18but in the case of Colombia, aggravated by extreme radicalization,
02:25And therefore one would always like to make a plea for us to return,
02:29No to unanimity, because that is not democratic.
02:32Dissent is part of democracy.
02:35But to a thoughtful confrontation, with a certain degree of respect for the antagonist.
02:41We have turned the antagonists into enemies.
02:45And then the theory arises that what needs to be done is to disembowel the enemy,
02:49And I think that's extraordinarily serious.
02:52Taking advantage of these reflections, let's get down to business.
02:55In this year 2026, Doctor of the Street, a decade after the signing of the peace agreement,
03:00Was the purpose achieved?
03:01Yes, when implementation has been lower than expected.
03:08Okay, but sometimes you have to go back to basics.
03:12which I think are the ones that get lost in these kinds of discussions.
03:16First, the talks in Havana took place with a specific group
03:22which was called the FARC, which was the most militarily powerful guerrilla group,
03:27oldest on the continent.
03:29Those men laid down their weapons.
03:31Those weapons were destroyed.
03:33Thirteen thousand people demobilized.
03:35So it seems to me that in discussions that this is sometimes lost sight of.
03:40In that sense, the agreement was a success, because it achieved what we set out to do.
03:45Secondly, it is said, no, but there are forms of violence.
03:49They're still shooting.
03:51Who should call me?
03:52First, groups with whom there was never any negotiation.
03:55In other words, neither the ELN nor the Gulf Clan were there at the time.
03:59and all this proliferation of groups that no longer even have political interests,
04:04but purely for profit.
04:06Then, it seems to me that there is a kind of distortion when it is said,
04:10Peace failed, Santos' so-called peace failed.
04:14Because they're still shooting there.
04:16Sure, but they keep shooting people with whom no agreement was made.
04:19That agreement was meant to end the confrontation with the FARC, and it was achieved.
04:25Third, the agreement has very important lines of work for Colombia,
04:29And unfortunately, implementation has been very low.
04:32I am participating in the thesis.
04:34The ombudsperson recently said so in a brilliant speech.
04:40Part of the increase in violence and violence figures
04:47It is a product of the poor implementation of the agreement.
04:51Moreover, Ismarín, the defender, makes a point with which I completely agree.
04:57All the figures indicate that even back when we were in Havana
05:02And processes of trust began, with successive unilateral ceasefires, and so on.
05:08All violence figures fell.
05:10And in many places of acute confrontation, a situation really emerged,
05:16Let's say, tranquility, not to mention peace.
05:19That has been deteriorating, and I believe that's partly due to the State's failure to fulfill certain obligations.
05:27the disappointment of some people who had hoped to continue with processes of this nature
05:36and the fact that small dissident factions were growing,
05:42among other things because the previous government granted them a certain degree of citizenship,
05:46It gathered some dissenting opinions that were insignificant at first.
05:50So there are too many things, but to answer categorically,
05:54The main purpose was achieved.
05:57The FARC do not exist in Colombia, and most importantly,
06:01There is no longer a political conflict in Colombia.
06:05There isn't even room for political negotiations.
06:08Today it is a country suffering from very acute violence,
06:13but it does not have a political guerrilla movement in its territory.
06:16In that same order, so that the audiences understand this dialogue,
06:21Street doctor, isn't there a need for reflection in terms of the victims?
06:26Do you feel like you're missing more truth?
06:28Are some processes, like those of the JEP, very delayed?
06:31Are there certain points where, even if the main purpose has been achieved,
06:36Something is missing from the institutional framework that emerged from the agreement?
06:40Yes, yes, I think that's a good point, Daniel.
06:43And I want to be quite objective,
06:45I always try to be as objective as possible in those assessments.
06:49The JEP, or rather, the JEP is the body,
06:52No, more than the philosophy of transitional justice,
06:55It was necessary to put an end to the brigade.
06:57I say this in the voice of Diego García Sayán, president of the Inter-American Court,
07:05following a case in El Salvador when he said,
07:09when the rules of human rights law are applied
07:13to an ongoing conflict, a conflict that is alive,
07:18We cannot make the mistake of thinking that by maximizing the enforcement of these rules,
07:24thinking about 60, 70 years in prison,
07:27You end up achieving the opposite,
07:30which is the perpetuation of mass rape.
07:33That's why when one speaks of transitional justice,
07:36It speaks of the need to find paths
07:39to end that violation of rights, which is what we did in Havana.
07:44Obviously we get criticized, and I respect those who say,
07:47These are very weak sanctions,
07:50I understand that perfectly.
07:51And if I were a victim, I deeply respect victims.
07:54But that's not the point, that's not the dilemma.
07:57The dilemma was, either we reached some formulas in the agreement,
08:02including justice,
08:03Or what will happen is that the bloodbath will continue.
08:07after 60 years of fighting in Colombia.
08:10And in that sense, I find the victims' complaint extremely respectable.
08:15Sometimes I find it a little less respectable
08:17people who use this for partisan political purposes.
08:21But the reflection I ask for is,
08:25We need to look at the dilemma we had in Havana,
08:28which was to perpetuate the conflict or to end it.
08:32And secondly, I am also aware
08:35that the JEP is susceptible to some criticism.
08:38The JEP is an instrument, it is the fundamental pillar of the agreement.
08:42Because that's where transitional justice is processed.
08:46But first, there has been a long delay.
08:48Second, it is said that there is a large bureaucratic mess.
08:52Third, I think there is a strategic element.
08:56We, the subject of truth,
08:58which I know is essential for the victims,
09:00What we said is,
09:02the Colombians' thirst for the complete truth
09:05It should be done by a truth commission.
09:07That commission has no legal effect.
09:10The legal aspects must be handled by the special jurisdiction.
09:14with enough truth for convictions.
09:17And I could have done that a long time ago.
09:20And then, of course,
09:22The JEP ended up repeating the work
09:24of the truth commission.
09:26Turning every process into a desire
09:28of absolute truth,
09:29when that was not the mandate he was given.
09:31And thirdly, to make a long story short,
09:34He also started filling this with procedures.
09:37Colombians, I don't know why,
09:38We want to bring everything into the realm of procedural law,
09:41to those purely procedural discussions.
09:44And then, one thing we always warn about
09:46which was the biggest mistake,
09:49It is to judge each of these criminals one by one.
09:53Because if that happens,
09:55He never finishes the task,
09:57the jurisdiction,
09:58because, being transitional,
10:00It has to be limited in time.
10:01Look at what happened with the paramilitaries
10:04during Uribe's government,
10:06how it was decided to judge them one by one,
10:09Well, this is the moment when it hasn't ended
10:11that process.
10:13Unfortunately,
10:14The JEP began to create instances
10:16and new parachutes,
10:18that even we,
10:19with Sergio Jaramillo,
10:20We filed a lawsuit before the Constitutional Court
10:22and he agreed with us.
10:23Because procedures were established
10:25that what they ended up
10:27I was almost falling into the trap.
10:29of judging one by one,
10:30when the mandate was
10:31judge those ultimately responsible
10:33and judge based on the context.
10:36The JEP was handed over
10:37all of the investigations,
10:40even convictions,
10:42for 60 years of ordinary justice.
10:44There was no need to repeat that.
10:46scrutinize further,
10:47convert each case
10:48in that absolute desire
10:51of a truth
10:52that arises from the Truth Commission.
10:55Dr. Recaille,
10:56another point,
10:57political participation
10:59of those who signed the agreement,
11:01the signatories,
11:02the ex-FARC,
11:03Did it work?
11:04Or perhaps it was a blow itself
11:06to the agreement
11:07in terms of
11:08it's practically
11:09one of the banderillas
11:10What other criticisms are they making of the agreement?
11:12That is also a crucial question.
11:14I think it's great to generate.
11:16Let's see,
11:17Let's look at this first.
11:18in more depth.
11:19Please,
11:21the central idea,
11:23ethics,
11:24of a peace process
11:26with a guerrilla group
11:27like that of the FARC
11:28was
11:29They lay down their weapons.
11:31and enter
11:32to civil policy.
11:34As he once said
11:35Darío Echandía,
11:36They stop firing bullets.
11:38and they start sticking their tongues out.
11:39That was essential,
11:40because?
11:41Not to produce
11:43weaknesses in the State,
11:45but to give it
11:46moral integrity
11:47to the agreement.
11:48If one does not
11:49take into consideration
11:51as an axis
11:52political participation
11:54of the guerrillas,
11:55what ends is
11:56the State failing,
11:57delivering there yes
11:58the State
11:59simply
12:00to search for a transaction.
12:02Now then,
12:03What should it be like?
12:04that participation
12:05in politics?
12:06Which was the north
12:07of the conditions.
12:09Really,
12:09we tried
12:11many options
12:12to soften,
12:13to minimize
12:14what we knew
12:15that it was going to be
12:16shocking to many.
12:17That is to say,
12:18See these gentlemen
12:18in Congress
12:19For many, it's irritating.
12:21and above all
12:21for the victims
12:22And I understand
12:22That's perfect.
12:24But there too
12:26the dilemma
12:27It was someone else.
12:28It wasn't
12:28Let's see how
12:31we are looking for
12:31a participation
12:32policy,
12:33For example,
12:33through third parties
12:34people
12:35without a criminal record.
12:37We proposed all of that,
12:38but the fact
12:39that these gentlemen
12:41of the FARC
12:42have arrived
12:42to Congress
12:43It is also
12:44the validation
12:45ethics of the process
12:47because that's what it proves
12:48that this was not
12:49a simple
12:51State referral
12:52in front of people
12:53criminals
12:54but a purpose
12:55much larger.
12:57And then
12:57I would end by saying
12:59We were always told
13:00and particularly
13:02me
13:03I've been here for 10 years
13:04what do they tell me
13:04that we delivered
13:05the country to the FARC
13:06And I wonder
13:07let's see,
13:08I understand
13:09that a victim
13:09when I saw
13:10to a gentleman
13:10of the FARC
13:11in a session
13:12in Congress
13:13feels offended.
13:15But,
13:15What was the concession?
13:17that was done to him
13:17to the FARC?
13:18What is the topic?
13:19crucial
13:19that was defined
13:20because of the votes
13:21or through oratory
13:22or by management
13:23of the FARC
13:24in Congress?
13:25None.
13:26There was none here.
13:26no deliveries.
13:27There is not just one
13:28crucial issue
13:29for Colombia
13:30Let them prove it to me
13:31that depended
13:32of the action
13:32of the FARC
13:33in his speech
13:34in politics.
13:35Therefore,
13:37equal
13:37That's what I already said,
13:40in relation
13:41with the implementation,
13:43for us
13:43The dilemma is
13:44or there is participation
13:46policy
13:46or there is no agreement
13:48and not exist
13:51an agreement
13:51would imply,
13:52would have implied
13:53continue
13:54in the horror
13:55of the war
13:56after 60 years
13:57of suffering it.
13:59Then,
13:59I think that,
14:00clear,
14:01can be taken
14:02as a concession,
14:03But it was a necessity.
14:04to manage to save
14:05the agreement
14:06instead of throwing it away
14:07into the jar
14:08from the garbage
14:08like some
14:09would have liked.
14:10And today the match
14:11first it was
14:12FARC party,
14:12after common party,
14:14He's gone now.
14:14on stage
14:14political,
14:15that is
14:15we'll stop by too
14:16which...
14:17It has disappeared.
14:18Among other things,
14:19That's very interesting.
14:19because the FARC
14:21They always believed
14:22on the table
14:22or claimed to believe
14:23who were the real
14:25representation
14:25of the Colombian people,
14:26But the thing is
14:27the department
14:28of State,
14:28the gringos,
14:29etc,
14:29They wouldn't let them.
14:30Really,
14:31We always said,
14:32man,
14:33That's an illusion.
14:34from you,
14:34you really
14:35they do not represent
14:36to no one
14:36and in fact
14:37the electoral figure
14:38when they submitted
14:39on the first try
14:40show that they really
14:41The FARC won
14:43the same aversion
14:44of the Colombians
14:44And that was it.
14:45affecting the port,
14:46It was inevitable.
14:49Another point as well,
14:50After these 10 years,
14:51you who are a type
14:52quite thoughtful
14:53and it is acknowledged
14:54Colombian society,
14:55the plebiscite,
14:56It was a mistake.
14:58It was necessary,
14:59It was unknown
14:59the popular will
15:01having lost
15:02or was required,
15:03In fact, many voices
15:04they say that there
15:05It is where it is born
15:06the true polarization
15:07in which she is involved
15:08Colombia.
15:09Well,
15:09Great question.
15:10Great question.
15:11first,
15:11Let's remember the reason.
15:12of being of a method
15:13of endorsement
15:14which ended up being
15:15a plebiscite,
15:16There were several options,
15:18but it was agreed
15:19to both parties,
15:21not just the government,
15:22seek endorsement
15:23popular
15:24because first
15:25it was needed
15:26great legitimacy
15:27policy
15:28as agreed,
15:30we had
15:31awareness
15:31that we were going to have
15:32compared to what
15:33Colombians
15:34They were going to have
15:34dilemmas
15:35enormous morals
15:36and the support
15:38of the popular vote
15:39it was necessary
15:41in terms
15:41of legitimacy
15:42policy
15:42and secondly
15:43because we knew
15:45that there was going to be
15:45all types of litigation,
15:47This is a society
15:48extremely litigious
15:49and to preserve
15:51and seek sustainability
15:53as agreed
15:53well the blessing
15:55Popularity was important,
15:56then first
15:57the reasons
15:57that the reason
15:58That was it,
15:59second,
16:01despite the vote
16:03I believe
16:04that I am
16:04the only
16:05Colombian
16:06which keeps saying
16:07which in my opinion
16:08the plebiscite
16:09It was an idea
16:10effective,
16:11not only did it have sustenance
16:12but it was effective
16:13because?
16:14I was going to ask him that
16:15because?
16:15because at the table
16:16of conversations
16:17when the FARC
16:18it veered off
16:19and then he entered
16:20in the process
16:20of radicalization
16:21of unfeasible proposals
16:22we always told him
16:23FARC leaders
16:24They're going to approve this
16:26Colombians
16:26or not,
16:27that is, the idea
16:28of the plebiscite
16:28It was effective
16:29It was effective
16:31because it worked
16:32to contain
16:32the cravings
16:33of the FARC
16:34because also
16:35serving
16:37like a species
16:38of oversight
16:39what he remembered
16:42he also restrained
16:43ambitions
16:44and aspirations
16:45of the FARC
16:46and allowed
16:47that we managed
16:48the agreement
16:48the plebiscite
16:49this
16:50there is a relationship
16:52of causality
16:53between the plebiscite
16:54as an idea
16:54even if it has failed
16:56with the signature
16:57of the stories
16:57suddenly
16:58without endorsement
16:59would have been
17:00much more difficult
17:00not to mention
17:01impossible
17:02and third
17:03We made him rabbit
17:04to the Colombians
17:05No
17:06our narrative
17:07some
17:08They didn't want us
17:09grasp
17:10There are also many
17:11political reasons
17:11But the fact is
17:13when we lose
17:14the plebiscite
17:15the official position
17:17was
17:17this agreement
17:19It's not viable
17:19this agreement
17:20It's not viable
17:21lost
17:21but
17:22so as not to throw away
17:24what has been achieved
17:26we made an effort
17:28with the presence
17:29of the spokespeople
17:30of no
17:30there was
17:32enormous
17:32and very long
17:34conversations
17:34with the presence
17:35from the doctor
17:36Álvaro Uvide
17:36of Mr.
17:37Ordóñez
17:38which is now
17:38the minister
17:39from the interior
17:40it was rebuilt
17:42an agreement
17:44adopting
17:45many of the
17:46almost all
17:47the interests
17:49of the spokespeople
17:50of no
17:50joined
17:51and it happened
17:52a new step
17:53this time
17:54through Congress
17:55joins
17:56to the constitution
17:57the obligation
17:58to defend
17:59the agreement
17:59and it's a new
18:01agreement
18:02historically
18:02That's it.
18:03the way
18:04how I respond
18:05to that concern
18:06There was no rabbit
18:07We accept
18:09this agreement
18:09It won't work
18:10and we made another one
18:11and he endorsed it
18:11the congress
18:12among other things
18:13precisely
18:14many of those
18:15they said
18:15about the plebiscite
18:16It was nonsense.
18:17if they accepted
18:18that the congress
18:19was the one who
18:20would endorse an agreement
18:21with this group
18:22guerrilla
18:22and because the former president
18:24Uribe
18:24center leader
18:25democratic
18:26the current minister
18:27from the interior
18:28Alejandro Ordóñez
18:29the same president
18:30of the republic
18:31Belardo de la Esprilla
18:31who at the time
18:32They promoted the no vote
18:33They still call him
18:34Quite the opposite
18:35which in fact
18:36They didn't recognize them
18:37Well, there it is.
18:38statistics
18:38just look
18:39what proposals
18:41He took the no
18:42to those very long
18:44conversations
18:45among other things
18:47in different scenarios
18:48some of them
18:49in the end
18:49in the ministry
18:50from the interior
18:50while we
18:52We were going to Havana
18:53here too
18:53The discussion continued
18:54always in presence
18:56of the leaders
18:57and in particular
18:57by Dr. Álvaro Uribe
19:00over 80%
19:01of the proposals
19:03of no
19:03joined
19:04in my opinion
19:05the final break
19:06wine, above all
19:07in the case
19:08from Dr. Uribe
19:08precisely
19:09because of the topic
19:10of participation
19:11policy
19:11I understand.
19:13But what I think
19:14That's it
19:15It was already halfway through
19:16because of the election issue
19:18Peace (with a capital P)
19:21a peace
19:23national content
19:25the elections
19:26the electoral issue
19:27she turned
19:28in peace
19:29lowercase
19:30and then
19:30There were people
19:32that they hated
19:33the agreement
19:34genuinely
19:35And I respect that.
19:36but there were also
19:37much political interest
19:38to see that it was
19:39the most convenient
19:39in the process
19:40to get votes
19:41And I think that
19:42That's what ended
19:44also contributing
19:45to the situation
19:46even today
19:47we still suffer
19:48you were saying
19:49a moment ago
19:50also
19:50that same
19:52There were some people
19:53that they left
19:53the weapons
19:54that are inside
19:55of the agreement
19:56and so on
19:56but also
19:57there is a curve
19:58growth
19:59of crime
19:59And you said
20:00verbatim
20:01that was
20:01the lack of implementation
20:02somehow
20:04the governments
20:04that follow
20:06if it's not the responsibility
20:08of the agreement
20:08then we can
20:09to make it explicit
20:10with the audiences
20:10of the viewer
20:11It is our responsibility
20:12of the governments
20:13that followed
20:13to that of Juan Manuel Santos
20:14I would say the following
20:17first of all
20:19Dr. Duque
20:20he got himself elected
20:22against the agreement
20:23because
20:24let's say that
20:25that
20:27means
20:28that I don't deceive
20:29to the Colombians
20:30because
20:31we wasted a lot of time
20:32with the objections
20:33in which
20:33He sat people down
20:34however
20:35I do recognize him
20:36to Duke
20:37that a good part
20:38of the investment
20:39in the so-called
20:40development plans
20:41with a territorial focus
20:42It was achieved
20:43and it was done
20:43I mean
20:43Duque didn't give it to him
20:44completely
20:45the back
20:45to the agreement
20:46I admit that
20:47and recently
20:48Dr. Duque
20:50He said that the great enemy
20:51of the agreement
20:51had been
20:52drug trafficking
20:53and some truth
20:53has
20:54something different
20:55It seems to me
20:56the case
20:56from Dr. Petro
20:57because Petro
20:58campaign
20:59said he was going
21:00to comply
21:00to the letter
21:01the exact word
21:02I will comply to the letter.
21:04the agreement
21:04from Havana
21:05And it didn't happen that way.
21:06He downplayed it
21:07he said that
21:08That was peace.
21:08little one
21:09destroyed
21:10the organizational chart
21:11the agencies
21:13in charge
21:13of the reintegration
21:14they entered
21:15in one thing
21:16very languid
21:16and it gave me there
21:18the call
21:18total peace
21:19that was the mistake
21:21tragic
21:22for Colombia
21:22without methodology
21:24without really
21:25a preparation
21:26they began to bloom
21:28tables
21:29conversing
21:30with a series
21:31of criminals
21:31they declared
21:32Caesar of Fire
21:33unilateral
21:34by the state
21:35in the end
21:36then it seems to me
21:37that the great
21:39irruption
21:39in the figures
21:40of violence
21:41is the result
21:42of failure
21:43of total peace
21:43not from the agreement
21:45and it is the lack
21:46implementation
21:47That's what Sufism is.
21:48that has been discussed
21:49to sell
21:49it is said
21:51Listen
21:52the detractors
21:53they say
21:54from Havana
21:55jump
21:56Petro
21:57first as if
21:58would not have existed
21:59duo
22:00they say
22:01the thing is
22:02what is happening
22:02now
22:03It comes because
22:04there is a species
22:05of compromise
22:07between the government
22:08de Santos
22:09and the government
22:10Petro
22:10It's false.
22:11as already
22:12I said it
22:13and pointed it out
22:14very good
22:15the defender
22:16of the town
22:16Iris Marín
22:17all studies
22:19security
22:20show
22:20that afterwards
22:21from the firm
22:22of the agreement
22:22or even
22:23from before
22:24from 2016
22:24they lowered it
22:26dramatically
22:27all indicators
22:28then
22:30many Colombians
22:31They saw peace
22:32but then
22:34unfortunately
22:35implementation ceases
22:36or it gets reduced
22:37the level
22:37and peace
22:38total
22:39It seems to me
22:39yes
22:40It was already
22:40the one that caused
22:41enormous damage
22:42in Colombia
22:43Total peace
22:43It was the implosion
22:44of the agreement
22:45From Havana?
22:46It was worse
22:47because it was
22:47replace
22:48the agreement
22:49from Havana
22:49to whom
22:51descarified
22:51on the part
22:52of the president
22:52said
22:53No
22:53That is peace.
22:54little one
22:54I'm going to do
22:55great peace
22:56but in the way
22:57further
22:58messy
22:59possible
22:59without any
23:00method
23:01without rigor
23:01and without
23:03clarity
23:03of a few lines
23:04reds
23:04I'll go back to the example
23:06more dramatic
23:07the ceasefire
23:09It is one of the decisions
23:10most important
23:11on a table
23:11of conversations
23:12that requires
23:13first of all
23:14consideration
23:15the state
23:17it cannot stop
23:18in their mission
23:19constitutional
23:20if not in return
23:22to achieve
23:22visualize
23:23precisely
23:24a degree
23:25of tranquility
23:26and of peace
23:26important
23:27And here's what was done
23:28was
23:28in a
23:29December 31
23:30I won't forget
23:31five agreements
23:32of unilateral terminations
23:33to the point
23:34that the ELN
23:35he told Petro
23:36why does he decree me
23:37a unilateral termination
23:38that I haven't asked him
23:39without verification
23:40without monitoring
23:41international
23:41Well, that's what it was.
23:43that fail
23:43was called
23:44necessarily
23:45to fail
23:45There was too much
23:47largesse
23:47to put it
23:48in a way
23:48simpler
23:49that they don't understand each other
23:50all this
23:51It's a game
23:51carrot
23:52and club
23:52There was too much
23:54carrot
23:54and zero stick
23:55Petro's position
23:56says he froze
23:57to the public forces
23:58But of course
23:59no, well, that is to say
24:00because she froze it
24:01because?
24:02Look at you
24:03I'm not saying
24:04that Petro told him
24:05to the public force
24:06do not operate
24:07I'm not saying that.
24:08I don't think he said it like that.
24:10But what happened?
24:11to the extent
24:12in which they are established
24:13ceasefires
24:14And you are a military commander.
24:16and at the front
24:17He sees some men
24:18who are illegal
24:19says
24:19Will these be the ones that cease operations?
24:21From the fire or not?
24:22Should I shoot?
24:23How do I separate them?
24:24I'll remind you.
24:25of a commander
24:26what he said
24:26not us
24:27We have the way
24:28to separate
24:29which ones are on hiatus
24:30and which ones don't
24:31That's not feasible.
24:32That's not true
24:33So if you're in the military
24:34says
24:34man, I'd rather
24:35I do nothing
24:36because afterwards
24:37I'm getting a disciplinary report.
24:38in Bogotá
24:39and it was paralyzing
24:40the public force
24:41definitely
24:41street doctor
24:43to round things off
24:44this dialogue
24:44and thanking him
24:45that he received us
24:46He already said
24:47that recognizes him
24:48to President Duque
24:49that there was progress
24:50in the implementation
24:51It's over now too
24:52rounding
24:53their answers
24:53for what it was
24:54the implementation
24:55during the Petro administration
24:56now
24:56during the government
24:57current
24:58of the president
24:58Abelardo de la Espriella
24:59have passed
25:01three months
25:01one hundred days
25:02that sees
25:02in the face of implementation
25:04of the agreement
25:04let's say
25:05It's very fast.
25:06to evaluate
25:07the government
25:07I don't want to rush things.
25:09on this
25:10But there are omens
25:11very worrying
25:12first of all
25:13already from the campaign
25:14Dr. Bebes Priella
25:16showed
25:16absolute
25:17nor misappropriation
25:18contrary to what was agreed
25:19He even said
25:20that was going to close
25:21the JEP
25:22and in fact
25:23there already are
25:24a project
25:25reform
25:26constitutional
25:27cutting
25:28the little pen
25:29in the end
25:29then
25:30clearly
25:31there is
25:31let's say
25:32a stance
25:33different
25:34which is based
25:35in recovery
25:36security
25:37Colombia
25:38if you need
25:38a policy
25:39security
25:40that postulate
25:41apparently
25:42from the doctor
25:43de la Espriella
25:43it's right
25:44But for now
25:45It's very basic
25:46what we are seeing
25:47It's simply
25:48a boast
25:48of strength
25:49clear
25:50That gives him
25:51popularity
25:52to the government
25:52definitely
25:54but it seems to me
25:55that we have not met
25:56at least
25:58methodically
25:59which
26:00that policy
26:00security
26:01which
26:01the situation
26:02of the forces
26:02armed forces
26:03There are many
26:04analysts
26:04serious
26:05what they say
26:05that has
26:07weakened
26:07the force
26:08public
26:08in such a way
26:09that the proposals
26:11apparent
26:11from the doctor
26:12de la Espriella
26:12that he arrives
26:13and simply
26:14guts
26:15to the enemy
26:15They are difficult
26:17achievement
26:17that is to say
26:18It is a position
26:18too basic
26:20too basic
26:21the complexities
26:22of what there is
26:23behind
26:24of these efforts
26:24They are enormous
26:26each territory
26:27There are features
26:28private individuals
26:29I wish
26:30we managed
26:31overcoming this
26:32but so far
26:33I keep insisting
26:35which I don't see
26:36methodically
26:37presented
26:38seriously
26:39among Colombians
26:40What is a policy?
26:41security
26:42that we do need
26:43but we need
26:44something
26:45with support
26:46and seriousness
26:46I hope it works out.
26:48in a very specific way
26:49street doctor
26:50Do you think the government
26:51of the president
26:51de la Espriella
26:52He's going to be the one who puts it on
26:52final point
26:53to the JEP
26:54and other aspects
26:55more of the agreement
26:55Well, it's very likely.
26:57because that's what we're seeing
27:00first it was said
27:01that it had to be eliminated
27:02after
27:02Okay, here's the topic
27:04budgetary
27:04on the budgetary issue
27:06I want to be too
27:07very rigorous
27:07and objective
27:08of course
27:09There is a tax problem.
27:10enormous
27:11and that affects
27:12to the entire state
27:13I understand too
27:14that
27:15It's very difficult.
27:17say
27:18Let's cut it out
27:19everyone except
27:19to the JEP
27:20among other things
27:21because each one
27:22of the sectors
27:22of the administration
27:23when they talk to him
27:24clipping
27:25everyone
27:26protest
27:26gentlemen of sports
27:28They say no.
27:28sport
27:28Don't touch it.
27:29the gentlemen
27:30health
27:31They say no.
27:31health
27:32Don't touch it.
27:32and then
27:33Where will it be done?
27:33The cut?
27:34then we would say
27:35entry
27:36It seems to me
27:37that attitude
27:37of the JEP
27:38of the new president
27:40of the JEP
27:41when it says
27:41So let's try to cut it down
27:44I think it's a healthy thing
27:45that is to say
27:46Let's sit down with the government
27:47preserving what is most important
27:49for example
27:50It's about safety.
27:50of the signatories
27:51He said that
27:52Dr. Danilo Rojas
27:53And I understand that.
27:54But I applauded
27:56to Dr. Danilo Rojas
27:57when it says
27:57very good
27:58Let's look
27:59what can be cut
28:00and also
28:00the JEP
28:01It needs to accelerate
28:03finish
28:03your task
28:04that of
28:05dissolve it
28:07to pass
28:07to justice
28:08ordinary
28:09what remains to be done
28:10It's an outburst.
28:12That would be
28:13the worst mistake
28:14from Colombia
28:15the JEP
28:15needs
28:16the form
28:17determine
28:18your task
28:19but also
28:20has to do
28:20the effort
28:21to lose weight
28:22your payroll
28:23and establish
28:24procedures
28:24more effective
28:25street doctor
28:26Let's close this.
28:27with something very basic
28:28if I could
28:29send him a message
28:31straight
28:31to the president
28:32of the star
28:33about implementation
28:34of the agreement
28:34What would I say to him/her?
28:36I would tell him
28:36that many
28:37of the
28:38answers
28:39for the problems
28:40from Colombia
28:41They are there
28:41For example
28:42the topic
28:43security
28:44rural
28:44if indeed
28:45rural reform
28:46to which
28:47You can also notice it
28:48a lot of detours
28:49of this administration
28:50the minister himself
28:51of agriculture
28:52one notes
28:52ideological distance
28:54that has
28:54facing rural reform
28:55That's a mistake
28:56rural reform
28:57It is a strategic element
28:58for Colombia
28:59from two points of view
29:00first in terms
29:01of justice
29:02of the peasants
29:0310 million farmers
29:04who have come
29:05in an economic scheme
29:07very precarious
29:09but secondly
29:10rural reform
29:11It's a big leap
29:13forwards
29:13of the entire economy
29:14not only from the agricultural economy
29:15because?
29:16because if you
29:17it is becoming formal
29:18the peasants
29:19and generating for them
29:20a higher standard of living
29:21ends up forming
29:23a mass
29:24of 10 million
29:25new
29:25of consumers
29:27that invigorate
29:28the industry
29:28the services
29:29etc.
29:30That's what happened
29:31with the Asian tigers
29:32Why us
29:34in the year 50
29:35we were richer
29:36that Korea
29:37Colombia
29:37and now
29:38What happened?
29:39well, that the rural reform
29:40What he did was incorporate
29:42that peasant mass
29:43and unleash a process
29:45developmental
29:45for the economy
29:46then it seems to me
29:47that what needs to be done
29:48It's about fulfilling the agreement.
29:49now
29:49the second point
29:51which is that of political reform
29:53the doctor
29:54It already says no jam.
29:56that he doesn't get involved
29:57with the politicians
29:57etc.
29:58beyond whether that is feasible
29:59and whether or not he complies.
30:00That's a different discussion.
30:02But the point is
30:03two of the agreement
30:04precisely that
30:05to achieve
30:06a better policy
30:07in Colombia
30:07cleaner
30:08Then that's there
30:09consecrated
30:10It seems to me
30:10that the lines
30:12fundamentals
30:13of what was agreed
30:14in Havana
30:15correspond
30:15to what Colombia
30:16must want
30:17to take steps
30:19positive
30:20towards the future
30:21somehow
30:22the message to the president
30:23Use the agreement
30:24use the agreement
30:25It's not that I believe
30:26that it will be successful
30:27with this message
30:29well then
30:30street doctor
30:31You have been very kind.
30:32Thank you for giving us these minutes.
30:33for reflection
30:34after a decade
30:36had it been signed
30:37the peace process
30:38in Havana
30:39Delighted, Daniel
30:40with great pleasure
30:40and to those who follow us
30:42and to the viewer
30:43a big hello
30:43thank you so much
30:44street doctor
30:45and to you
30:45the viewer audiences
30:46Don't forget to log on
30:47second by second
30:48through all
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30:50and digital channels
30:51also read the edition
30:53company that comes out daily
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30:57the viewer
30:57See you in the next episode!