- 14 years ago
Amanda Palmer, Al Jazeera's head of entertainment meets with Lucy Bailey to discuss her latest film about a white landowners struggle to keep his farm in Zimbabwe. She also meets Martin Scorsese to discuss his first ever visit to the Middle East. Finally, she speaks to the Brazillian film maker José Padilha about his new documentary, Garapa.
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TVTranscript
00:23Hello and welcome to the Fabulous Picture Show.
00:25I'm Amanda Palmer.
00:25This week we're joined by Lucy Bailey,
00:27co-director of an emotional and chilling new documentary about Zimbabwe.
00:31It's called Mugabe and the White African.
00:35It's about a family under siege.
00:38I want you out.
00:39Who decide to take on a dictator.
00:42You're still going to hear it, guys.
00:44And filmmaker Lucy Bailey explains why.
00:47They weren't putting self-preservation above everything else.
00:50They're doing it on behalf of everyone in Zimbabwe.
00:52Also on the show.
00:56His last film was one of Brazil's biggest hits ever.
00:59So what did Jose Padilla do next?
01:01My idea was to show what hunger means individually for those who face it.
01:11But first, when director Martin Scorsese made his first ever trip to the Middle East,
01:15he wasn't there to promote his new film.
01:16Oh, no, he came to Doha, Qatar bearing a special gift.
01:22Made 40 years ago, Shari Abdel Salaam's The Mummy, or The Night of Counting the Years,
01:27remains a landmark of Egyptian cinema.
01:31Set in the 19th century, it's about an Egyptian family that plunders ancient tombs.
01:38But the film itself had become badly deteriorated
01:41until Martin Scorsese's World Cinema Foundation stepped in
01:44and restored it to its original glory.
01:47Even recently, The Mummy was voted as perhaps the most iconic Egyptian film of all time.
01:52It's a beauty, it's a beauty.
01:53When did you first see it?
01:54It took me until 1976.
01:57Seven years after it was released?
01:58Seven years after, maybe, yeah, to get a 16mm print, which was pink.
02:04Completely pink.
02:05And it was just, it was really extraordinary.
02:08And then we were able to get some old videotape of it, which was even worse.
02:11And that's all I've seen.
02:13That's all I've seen over the years.
02:15So when we had the chance, immediately, let's do it.
02:17Let's do it.
02:18Because it says so much about, about what, who does the culture belong to?
02:32The screening of The Mummy at the Doha Tribeca Film Festival
02:35was held outdoors at Tsip Wa Gif and open to the public.
02:39You've been bringing audiences together for a very long time as a filmmaker.
02:43What was it like for you to see that?
02:45Well, for me, it's like a dream because the idea is not only bringing audiences together,
02:50but a varied audience to experience something communally on a big screen,
02:57particularly projected outside.
02:59It takes entertainment back to the original roots of the storyteller outside,
03:04talking to people, describing, telling a story.
03:17For many, many years, as a filmmaker, you've been part of a generation of filmmakers
03:21who are very aware of the need for restoration and preservation.
03:24But you particularly have put an enormous amount of energy and time into that.
03:29What spawned that?
03:30Cinema itself, an American, British, Italian cinema I saw growing up,
03:34it kind of saved me in a way.
03:36I nourished something spiritual in me.
03:45Narratively, too, the storytelling itself,
03:47this is something that was my lifeblood in a way.
03:50It kept me going.
03:52I can see a film 20 times, a film like Life and Death of Colonel Blimp, British film.
03:58I've seen it over 10, 12 times now over the years in its final form,
04:01but each time the film gets richer and deeper,
04:04maybe because I'm getting a little older, you see.
04:06It's a different film each time.
04:08Anything wrong, sir?
04:12Murder?
04:14The war is over.
04:15So I wanted to preserve that.
04:17Now, how can you preserve something which is so ephemeral?
04:20The World Cinema Foundation is an extension of Scorsese's long-term efforts
04:24to preserve American studio films.
04:27At a certain point,
04:29he started to realize that cinema from the rest of the world
04:33was in just as great need as American cinema, if not greater,
04:38because there weren't all these titles under one umbrella
04:42or a series of big umbrellas.
04:44And so we started the World Cinema Foundation.
04:48He started it in 2007
04:49with the idea that the accent would be in developing countries.
04:59When I first got involved with foreign films,
05:01I always tell the story of having seen Patea Panchali,
05:04a Sajid Ray's film on television in New York, 1959.
05:08Interestingly enough, this is a film about the people,
05:12seemingly made by the people,
05:14who are usually in the background of the other films that I've seen in India.
05:17Usually films made by the Americans, English and the French,
05:21and they're always in the background,
05:22they're always subsidiary characters.
05:26This year particularly,
05:27I've seen five fantastic films out of the Arab world,
05:31which are not being made just for Arab audiences,
05:34which have enormous crossover potential.
05:35That's the key, the crossover potential, yeah.
05:38It's important that younger people, especially,
05:40begin to see films from Africa, films from the Middle East and everything,
05:43about marriages, about relationships between people.
05:46And there's no color line, there's no culture line, you see.
05:49And we begin to see it all together as one.
05:52Thank you again for coming.
05:54Really a pleasure.
06:03His two last films,
06:05one of the most admired documentaries of the decade,
06:07and then there was a top prize winner at Berlin Film Festival.
06:10So how does Josep Padilla cash in?
06:12Well, it's not how you would expect.
06:20Garapa is the sugar water fed to the poorest of the poor in Brazil.
06:26It's also the name of a gritty new documentary by Josep Padilla,
06:31one of Brazil's most acclaimed filmmakers.
06:33The cheapest way to buy energy is to buy foods with a lot of calories in it,
06:38like sugar, for instance.
06:41My aim was to try to show the problem of hunger
06:45from a very intimate perspective.
06:48Instead of giving the statistics of hunger,
06:51which we already know what they are,
06:53and trying to analyze the causes of hunger,
06:56my idea was to show what hunger means individually for those who face it.
07:02How hunger affects the family.
07:05How does the family react to the fact that they won't have food and they know it?
07:09How does it happen?
07:23Basically, one out of seven human beings face hunger,
07:30and they are insecure about whether they're going to have food tomorrow.
07:36Nowadays, it's 920 million people, according to the United Nations,
07:40face conditions similar to those shown in Garapa.
07:54The lo-fi aesthetic recalls such landmark documentaries
07:58of Luis Buñuel's Land Without Bread
08:00about poverty in rural Spain in the 1930s.
08:05Buñuel was limited by 30s technology,
08:08but with Garapa, the raw grainy images are purely intentional.
08:12You know, the idea of this movie was to take everything
08:16that is not essential to filmmaking out of the movie
08:18in the same way that the families I'm shooting
08:21only have the very basic things that's needed for someone to survive.
08:26So I took away color.
08:28I only used the direct sound.
08:30I didn't use any sound effects, any post-production sound.
08:34It's only the direct sound.
08:36So, you know, all of this is a part of a general
08:39statical decision to make a raw film.
08:45It's a striking contrast to Padilla's previous work,
08:49including Elite Squad,
08:53his look at drug criminals and abusive cops in the favelas,
08:58and bus 174 about a notorious bus hijacking
09:02that was broadcast live on TV.
09:07The documentary explores the social injustice
09:10behind the desperate action.
09:20In 1993, outside the Candelaria church in Rio,
09:23police massacred eight homeless children while they slept.
09:27The hijacker was one of the traumatized survivors.
09:30The biggest thing that explains how society operates
09:34is the difference between those who have and those who have not.
09:38Those who have not, poor people, don't have access to power,
09:42don't have access to the media,
09:44they cannot, you know, get a representation to the Congress.
09:47And at the end of the day, you know,
09:48that's why you don't have a world summit
09:49to deal with hunger problem,
09:51and you have a world summit to deal with bank problems.
10:08In part due to screening the documentary
10:10Mugabe and the White African,
10:11I have the co-director here, Lucy Bailey.
10:13This is a great story.
10:15It's about one man.
10:16This is Mike Campbell, who takes on...
10:18President Robert Mugabe in an international court
10:21for human rights abuses and racial discrimination
10:24over the land reform program in Zimbabwe.
10:26He's 74 years old.
10:29He is as strong as an ox.
10:31Anyway, it's an incredible story.
10:32It brings a lot of questions besides the issue
10:34of Mugabe's regime and land redistribution,
10:37but we'll find out more about those questions in part 2C then.
10:40He met her in the fall.
10:48Hello, everybody.
10:49Welcome to the Fabulous Picture Show
10:50and this special screening of Mugabe and the White African.
10:53Can I please introduce the co-director, Lucy Bailey?
10:59She's as tough as they come.
11:01She goes into Zimbabwe at a time when Mugabe basically said,
11:04no foreign journalists.
11:05There was a total ban.
11:07Yeah, it was a real challenge.
11:08I mean, the logistics were incredible.
11:09We had to smuggle ourselves, our equipment into the country.
11:13We had to go over a different border every time.
11:16We had to come up with cover stories.
11:18It was tough.
11:19It was really tough and really dangerous to be in public
11:22or be anywhere with the camera.
11:23So actually, you know, to be able to make the film at all
11:26was pretty extraordinary.
11:28It's totally riveting.
11:29Enjoy the film.
11:29See you then.
11:34They just broke into the house and said, this is mine.
11:38As Zimbabwe's president, Robert Mugabe,
11:40attempts to complete his forced takeover of white-owned farms.
11:44There was about 10 of them when they came and they sat all over the place there
11:47and telling us, hurry up, hurry up.
11:49I want your stuff out of here tonight.
11:51Get out.
11:5275-year-old Mike Campbell refuses to give up.
11:55We've got to fight back.
11:57You know, you've got to do something.
11:59Otherwise, you just lie on your back and call it a day.
12:03Filmed in secret, under perilous conditions.
12:07Mugabe and the White African, directed by Lucy Bailey and Andrew Thompson,
12:11is the story of a farmer who took one of the world's most brutal dictators
12:14to an international tribunal,
12:16charging him with racial discrimination and human rights violations.
12:20People who oppose him go to prison.
12:23They get beaten.
12:24They disappear.
12:25In a last-ditch effort to hold on to the family farm.
12:28I wouldn't like my grandchildren to one day in the future say,
12:33you know, my grandfather had a farm in Africa,
12:36but a few guys came along and said boo to him,
12:39and he packed his bags and ran away.
12:41Mugabe took power in 1980 when Zimbabwe won its independence from Britain.
12:48He claims that his land reform programme redresses colonial injustices.
12:53We cannot continue to exist here,
12:57to live as if we are an extension of the British Empire.
13:01But the controversial policy has taken a heavy toll on the country and its people.
13:06The demise of the economy, the lack of basic necessities,
13:10the degeneration of the infrastructure,
13:13it's all as a result of the land invasions.
13:17Though Campbell and his family face continual intimidation.
13:20I will sleep here until you are out, and I mean it.
13:25I want you out.
13:27He and his son-in-law, Ben Freeth,
13:29staunchly pursue their long-running court case.
13:31We want justice now, you know.
13:33Every day that goes by, there's more people who are being kicked off their farms,
13:37and we can't have that.
13:38But can Mugabe be brought to justice?
13:41I can't believe that they're postponing us.
13:44We're just buying time, Ben. It's just a stitch-up.
13:47Mugabe and the white African portrays the collapse of an entire nation
13:50through the tribulations of one white family,
13:53struggling to remain in a homeland that Mugabe says doesn't want them.
13:57Our present state of mind is that you are now our enemies.
14:06Mike Campbell was one of those farmers who bought that land legitimately, legally, under Mugabe.
14:12He wasn't somebody who inherited that land through earlier land-grubbing and colonialism.
14:17Absolutely. Mike didn't steal his farm.
14:19Mike worked very hard.
14:20At Independence, the farm was offered to the Zimbabwe government
14:24for the purposes of land redistribution, but they didn't want it.
14:27I think it was love at first sight.
14:29We came back saying, yeah, this is the farm.
14:32We must buy this farm.
14:33I had to get a loan from the land bank,
14:35a loan which, I might add, took me 20 years to repay.
14:40Almost to the year after repaying and getting the title needs,
14:46the government said, we'll have that. Thank you very much.
14:49From what my understanding was, in the 1930s,
14:52it was basically a white minority government.
14:54And at that point, 70% of the land was pretty much owned by white farmers.
14:58So there was a huge inequity for a long time.
15:01That's true. There was an imbalance.
15:02And, I mean, even today, certainly Mike and the other farmers in Zimbabwe
15:06know desperately that land reform needs to happen in Zimbabwe, absolutely.
15:10But, of course, it has to happen legally,
15:13and it has to happen in a way that the land is given to farmers
15:15who know how to farm and, you know, who can farm the land.
15:18And clearly, as you see in the film, that isn't happening at the moment.
15:22Not one of them could be typified as a trained farmer
15:27or a potentially good farmer.
15:30ZANU minister, next one,
15:31provincial administrator's wife,
15:33next one, ZANU PF, election agent,
15:35next one, high court judge, high court judge, high court judge.
15:39In the film, you show, my goodness, the cronyism,
15:42that Mugabe's cronies basically have inherited a lot of these lands.
15:45What are you doing here?
15:47I'm here for my land.
15:48This is my home, Mr. Tewil.
15:49It is your home.
15:51Well, you're in the wrong home.
15:52The land belongs to the black peasants.
15:55Minister Shamir, a black peasant.
15:58He's a minister like any other black person that deserves land.
16:02A lot of people are tying the terrible famine in Zimbabwe right now
16:06to the fact that farmers are not being given this land.
16:09I mean, that's the sad thing is that, you know,
16:11some of you know, Zimbabwe was the breadbasket of Africa
16:14and now it's food-dependent nation
16:16and that's because the farms aren't being farmed.
16:20You know, they're stripped of assets,
16:21they're stripped of anything that can be taken away
16:23and then the land is just left in ruin.
16:25We don't want you anymore.
16:27Get it right?
16:28We don't.
16:29But we are Zimbabweans.
16:30We don't care whether you're Indian, Malawi, Karanga, whatnot.
16:34We just don't want you in particular.
16:36Just because we're white, right?
16:38Anyway, I'm not talking to you anymore.
16:39My name is Eldridge Calverwell.
16:42I'm a Zimbabwe activist.
16:44I'm an African and I'm a mixed-race African,
16:47but even in Africa, I'm not recognised as an African as such.
16:52Are you recognised as a Zimbabwean?
16:55Yes, I'm recognised as a Zimbabwean,
16:57but I'm not recognised as, how Mugabe would say,
17:01a black Zimbabwean and he's stated constantly
17:03that if you're not black Zimbabwean, you're not Zimbabwean.
17:06That's a real shame and I think that's challenging itself
17:08and that's partly why we titled the film The White African
17:10because that in itself is kind of a thought-provoking concept, you know.
17:14Is it possible to be a white man and an Australian?
17:20And of course the answer is yes.
17:22But is it possible to be a white man and an African?
17:27If you talk to Mugabe, the answer is very strongly no.
17:33Mugabe and his people, they've always said that commercial farmers,
17:39white commercial farmers in particular, have been mistreating farm workers.
17:44What was your experience during filming?
17:46Did you get time to interview some farm workers?
17:50Well, I hope you see in the film that the relationship is a fantastic one.
17:53I think actually also on the other farm you see where they are moved off,
17:57again, the distraught faces of the farm workers there.
18:00His father worked for my grandfather.
18:02He was his right-hand man.
18:04He was his cattle man.
18:05And he looked after the cattle.
18:07He dipped them.
18:08He took care of them.
18:10It's his whole life.
18:11He was born here.
18:13Belinda was born here.
18:14His niece.
18:15And they have fought to stay here.
18:18What was a real shame for us is not actually being able to get more interview with the farm workers.
18:23And that is purely the climate of fear in Zimbabwe.
18:26Anyone who speaks out on camera is putting their lives at risk.
18:29It was slightly different for Ben and Mike and the family
18:31because their head was above the parapet because of the court case.
18:35And they wanted that story to be out there.
18:37But actually for the workers it was even more dangerous.
18:40Yeah, the guys are pretty uneasy this morning.
18:42In last night's trade they singled out one of the chief guards.
18:47Someone came to my house asking for me.
18:50Then I saw there was many, many people holding weapons, iron bars, catapults.
18:57And to catch me, start beating me.
18:59I should imagine in that situation the levels of fear must be overwhelming.
19:04Were you scared a lot?
19:06Yeah, I mean it's scary.
19:07I mean we had to be very careful about when we were there and when we were not there.
19:10But we couldn't be too scared because they weren't too scared.
19:13And if they were brave enough to carry on then we had to be brave enough to go.
19:16And there were many times and I thought we can't carry on.
19:18We cannot do this.
19:20There's two guys here.
19:22Three guys.
19:24Oh, there's quite a few there.
19:25Picking up stones.
19:27Okay, let's go back.
19:29Drive!
19:30Keep going.
19:31You're fine, man.
19:33Okay, my window's open.
19:34My co-director, Andrew, filmed in the hospital soon after they got beaten up.
19:39And even that, to get in the hospital, there was any militia on the door of the hospital.
19:45And the equipment had to be broken down into parts, wrapped as gift wrap and smuggled in to the hospital.
19:51And, yeah, I mean, it's really difficult to describe the climate of fear that it was made under, really.
19:58One of the shocking things for me was their resolve and that moment where Mike says, it's strengthened our resolve,
20:05basically.
20:06If you go against Mugabe, then they let all the stops out and try and get you.
20:15But I'm afraid that's not going to work too well because we're still going to go against Mugabe.
20:22They weren't putting self-preservation above everything else.
20:26If they were, of course, it would have been crazy to do what they did.
20:28But they're doing it on behalf of everyone in Zimbabwe.
20:31The farm is our homes.
20:34It's the homes for our workers.
20:36It's our livelihood.
20:37It's everything.
20:38And if we lose it, we've lost our place on the soil in Africa.
20:47What are you going to do next?
20:49Well, take the film around politically because our promise to Ben and Mike was that we would try and, you
20:55know,
20:56that the film would hopefully make a difference.
20:57And we're all working hard towards that at the moment.
21:00I must tell you all that this is Lucy's first feature film.
21:03And often a documentary, you can have a fantastic story and you found that in your hands
21:08and you developed that story and you kept with it with all your challenges.
21:13But it was a beautifully made documentary as well.
21:15I think that is a real testament to your skill.
21:18So congratulations on that.
21:19And really, thank you all.
21:25We've just seen so much hatred being foisted on the nation.
21:29And it just is such a destructive thing.
21:32And we need to love each other and give each other a chance to go forward in a positive and
21:39constructive way.
21:45Well, that's it for this fabulous picture show.
21:47Now, you can help Lucy Bailey get her film shown around the world as it deserves to be seen.
21:51If you just please, you know, call your local cinema and just say you want to see this film
21:56and hopefully we can get it out there and as many people as possible can see it.
21:59I love the idea of everyone harassing cinemas.
22:01I don't know if I'm supposed to endorse this.
22:03But I will say, you must see the film.
22:05Tell your friends.
22:06It's always the best type of thing to do for independent filmmakers.
22:09Anyhow, I'll see you on the next Fabulous Pitch Show.
22:11Join me next.
22:12See you then.
22:25On a scale of 1 to 10, how would you rate the film?
22:28A mega 10.
22:30Because it was so inspiring, it was so captivating, it was so soul-searching.
22:35For me, as a Zimbabwean living abroad, I think it was very educational.
22:39If it came out as a Hollywood film, you'd say, oh, that's ridiculous, that couldn't happen, it's too far-fetched.
22:44I was particularly, you know, impressed by the spirit that they shot the cameras.