00:00You have literally ridden a motorcycle off the edge of a cliff and then deployed a parachute.
00:04You've hung off the side of multiple different styles of airplane.
00:09My question to you is do you fear death?
00:25You gave me one good tip, which was look at the right eye.
00:30This eye.
00:31This eye right there.
00:32Anything else I need to know before you get started?
00:34No, no, you're good.
00:35From our most decorated screen actor alive.
00:38We got to look at the eye line.
00:39Which eye line do you want?
00:40Okay, all right.
00:41Which of my eyes will you be looking at?
00:43I'll be looking at your left one.
00:44Okay, all right.
00:45That's good to know.
00:45But both of them, I can see both of them.
00:47Okay.
00:47Don't focus so hard on that.
00:49I want to start here.
00:52Digger is arguably the first non-action,
00:57non-franchise film you've made in quite some time.
01:01Mm-hmm.
01:02What took so long?
01:04It's a movie that I've wanted to make.
01:05I have tremendous admiration for Alejandro.
01:09You know, I saw his film, Amores Perros, very early on.
01:13Pretty much before I guess anyone in town, you know, seen it.
01:18I understood what he did in terms of what he accomplished with that storytelling,
01:21and the immersion, the detail of his framing, the colors of the actors, the performances,
01:27things that I knew, the resources that he must have had to make that,
01:31and just the overall power of that communication.
01:34Part of the reason I was asking the question, I was thinking as I was getting ready for this.
01:37There's a generation of audiences, a younger generation, that might only know you
01:42at this point as an action star.
01:47Surprisingly, that's not true.
01:49It's very interesting where you look at audiences that are seasoned, when you look at cable,
01:54when you look at Netflix, and you go to a premiere, there's three, four generations of
02:01people that are there in the same way that they know the Beatles, you know, where that whole
02:05generation where they understand a level of music from the, you know, from the 40s, 50s, 60s.
02:12Those things we've discovered in terms of how a library travels, you know, globally.
02:18So that's the thing that's, I know, it's fascinating.
02:21Yeah, because I think there was a time when it seemed like the way you thought about your
02:26film career was, seek out the inner ritus of your generation, right?
02:32Steven Spielberg, Paul Thomas Anderson, Michael Mann, Stanley Kubrick, and work with them.
02:37But it seemed like somehow you started thinking about your film career in a different way.
02:41I never have.
02:42I've never thought of it.
02:43It's always an evolution.
02:45And it's for me, it's been a something where it's a constant challenge of one step to the
02:51next.
02:52Yeah.
02:53And, you know, things that I've never talked about, the things that I've done have been
02:56very deliberate, and why?
02:57And what I'm exploring.
02:59And it's not just the directors.
03:01I know people go to the directors, yes.
03:03But it's, there's many craftsmen making a movie, and many layers that create a film.
03:09And I want to understand, how do you put these things together?
03:13How do I use these tools to communicate to a broader audience?
03:16And it's, it's how, you know, we're playing with aesthetics.
03:20And, you know, we were talking earlier, you know, you and I, about stunts.
03:23And it's, it's motion.
03:25Emotion is motion.
03:28And how do I understand what these tools are?
03:31Those are the things that have always fascinated me, always interested.
03:34You mentioned...
03:35Less about talking about myself, believe me.
03:37I will.
03:38You know what I mean?
03:38I have some bad news for you about today.
03:40You and I, I know, I know, I know.
03:42I'm more interested in you than hearing myself talk, you know?
03:45You mentioned stunts.
03:47Last year, I spent some time with Christopher McQuarrie, your Mission Impossible director,
03:50a long-time friend and collaborator, and...
03:53He's awesome.
03:53One of the things we just talked about was how dangerous the stuff you do is, you know?
03:57And I could, like, recite it.
03:58You have literally ridden a motorcycle off the edge of a cliff and then deployed a parachute.
04:03You've hung off the side of multiple different styles of airplane.
04:07My question to you is, do you fear death?
04:12Look, I, I think you could look at my life and go,
04:14I like standing on the edge of a cliff, physically and metaphorically.
04:20Meaning, I look at life as an adventure.
04:23And I always have.
04:24I want to understand people.
04:25I want to understand life and cultures.
04:28And if I wonder, what are those people, how do they feel?
04:31Do they think the way I do?
04:32Do they laugh at the same thing?
04:34Am I, how do I connect with them?
04:36I asked if you feared death.
04:37I mean, I do think that mortality has become, particularly in the mission films, you know?
04:42Like, I think audiences are actually watching to see, like, is this guy going to be okay?
04:46But here's the thing.
04:48You want to, how do we use these tools to create an emotional effect on an audience?
04:53And is it communicating what we want to communicate?
04:56So, do I fear death?
04:57No, I don't.
04:59Do, do I, but I don't mind, it's not like I'm not afraid.
05:03I don't mind the feeling.
05:05I like, I understand life has certainties and uncertainties.
05:10And in making movies and living life, what interests me is like, let's move the uncertainties
05:17more into the certainties, but I want to create other uncertainties so that we're, you know,
05:22we're moving forward and it's part of the adventure of it.
05:25Where do you think that urge comes from to, like, find the cliff?
05:29It's just who I am, you know?
05:31Since my, I know, my whole life, that's just who I am, and I...
05:36Do you have a theory about why?
05:38It's just who I am.
05:39That's my theory.
05:40Yeah.
05:40It's like, the thing is, is that I find people are people, you know?
05:46And each person is really quite amazing, has their own story, their own journey,
05:53things that they're creating, what they're interested in.
05:56Yeah, yeah, because it seems like, I feel like there's people in your life that have stories
06:00about this too.
06:01Like, oh, he took me on an airplane, and it was very scary, or he took me on a helicopter,
06:04and he pretended that we were going down.
06:06Like, it seems like it's not just on screen, right?
06:08We pretended we were going down.
06:11I think that's a Glenn Powell story.
06:12I think he did say that happened.
06:15Sorry, Glenn, if I have that wrong.
06:17So, are you ever afraid on screen or off?
06:19I mean, it's like there's stuff where you want to feel that.
06:22You want to feel that uncertainty.
06:24Yeah.
06:24You know?
06:25Fear is like things of the unknown, but I haven't, I'm not afraid to feel afraid.
06:29Yeah.
06:30I'm not afraid to feel afraid.
06:32And it's, it's things that I, as I say, it's like I, and I approach things in a way
06:39where I'm, I don't know.
06:44I don't know how to say it.
06:45It's like, I'm not afraid to be afraid.
06:47I'm not afraid to go, okay, I know this is a leap, and let's, let's take the jump.
06:52Let's go.
06:52Or are you afraid of death?
06:53Are you afraid to be afraid?
06:55Are you?
06:55Do I fear death?
06:56I think so.
06:57Yeah.
06:58I certainly, riding a motorcycle off a cliff, I would, I would be afraid.
07:02Look, I know it's not for everybody.
07:03Yeah, yeah, yeah.
07:04I don't think it is.
07:05Yeah.
07:05I think, I think.
07:05I don't, I don't think it is.
07:07Well, you know, look, this is a version of a cliff, right?
07:09Like, like, like, you know, talking to someone, going to unknown territory.
07:13I think I do like the adrenaline hit of that, the physical danger.
07:18I might actually die.
07:19I'm not, I don't think that's for me.
07:20I know, and you know what?
07:21Everyone has their own things of what they're, what they have to confront in life and what
07:25they feel is scary or, you know, whatever.
07:29So it's just, I'm someone who very much, I don't know.
07:33I just, I'm interested.
07:35I was reflecting on the kind of first thing that you guys put out about Digger was a,
07:40kind of a two and a half minute feature ad about your sort of life on screen.
07:46Like, it's just, it's just a cut of many of your film performances and then like a little
07:51bit of Digger.
07:53I wonder when you look at two and a half minutes of, you know, a life on screen, what do
08:00you
08:01feel?
08:01Like, what's going through your head when you're watching that?
08:03You know, I think about the joy of being able to create the people that I have created
08:11with the amazing times I've had, the wonderful challenges that we've overcome to be able to
08:17make films and to have dreams as a kid, to be able to do this.
08:22That's what I look at.
08:23I, I, I see everyone involved in making it.
08:27I feel grateful about that.
08:29You know, I remember every moment, you know, when we're going through, uh, through making
08:33these things and the, the evolution of those projects.
08:37Um, those are the things I think about.
08:39You've mentioned a couple of times already this being your childhood dream.
08:44And you used to actually write these dreams down, right?
08:47Am I correct about this?
08:48What I did was I, I write goals.
08:50I still, it's like, you're, you're looking at something, you write a goal and then you,
08:52you write underneath what are those things you need to learn to be able to accomplish those goals.
08:58So as I'm doing it, so I'm constantly learning new things.
09:03So I will learn a skill and then I'll apply it to movies or I'll look at movies and
09:09understand what is, what, what does it take to get a camera here like this?
09:14And what lens is that?
09:15And what lighting creates this within this space or what architecture, how do they build something?
09:20Those things, how they come together and why something makes us feel a particular way.
09:25That's a very adult point of view.
09:26You know, when you're a kid writing things down, I mean, I've heard you say that like
09:30the dreams were so big that the adults in your life like reacted poorly to them, right?
09:35Not all of them, that's a generality.
09:37I mean, but my family, there's certain people that were, you know, I didn't say it.
09:41I stopped saying it because some of them did.
09:44And some, most were like, they were like, yeah, you're a little kid.
09:46But, but I think also children have a lot more going on than if parents or adults are
09:52listening, you know, they have their dreams and I've seen it, you know, where they have
09:56those dreams and many times I've spoken to many different people where they saw it and
10:03they had this passion and that's what they were driving towards.
10:06That's what I did.
10:07I know.
10:08There's something sad though about people being like, this is too big and too scary for me.
10:12And then you not, and then you stopping sharing it.
10:14Yeah, but I never let go of it.
10:16Yeah.
10:16I never let go of it.
10:17And I understood very early on, this is for me.
10:20And there's things that even when I started out and I told you, Zach, like I didn't talk
10:24about it, you know, I'm 18 years old.
10:26I've already had jobs and I've had to manage business.
10:30You know, I would like, I'm a CEO of my life, but I'm, I know the dreams that I want.
10:35I want to see what those people are like in those different countries.
10:38What is it like that language?
10:39What are they saying?
10:40What's it like hearing that?
10:42And movies for me were an in.
10:43Now you have the internet and you can see things and it's all like that.
10:46But it's also going to these places.
10:51That was just me.
10:52And I, and it is me.
10:53And it's, I, I want to know about that stuff.
10:59You have what I think of as like the very classical actor childhood, right?
11:04What is it like 15 schools in 16 years, something like that?
11:07I was writing characters and creating, like, you know, creating characters very early on
11:12to make my family laugh, you know, to just, I just wanted to make them laugh.
11:16And, and I love telling stories, you know, and for me traveling in that way was, is, and it is
11:23an adventure.
11:24People go, where do you live?
11:25It's like, I, I live around the world.
11:27And that, that's a source of happiness for you, not like a source of like, I have no home.
11:32I have a home, I, everywhere I go.
11:35And I, I feel very much at home in places.
11:41And I, it's where I, what I like.
11:45There's a thing that you like to say, correct me if I get this wrong.
11:50It's about movies.
11:51You say, it's not what I do, it's who I am.
11:55Is that right?
11:56Yes.
11:57I actually wonder what you mean by that.
12:00That for me, it's making movies is we're learning skills.
12:06We're communicating to the world.
12:08We're embracive of life, you know, making a movie.
12:12It doesn't, it's not one person.
12:14It's everyone making that film.
12:16I think when you say movies are not what I do, it's who I am.
12:20It makes me wonder, like, when you're not on a movie set, who are you?
12:24I'm me.
12:25I am me throughout.
12:26I'm always me.
12:27Yeah.
12:27You know, I am always me.
12:29I am someone who is very interested in people, interested in life.
12:33I think people wonder, like, what you're doing on a random Tuesday when you're not on a movie set.
12:38You know what?
12:39I'm preparing for the next.
12:41I'm always studying something.
12:42I'm always learning something, always.
12:44You've said to me already a couple of times, like, I don't talk about this,
12:48before you talked about something.
12:49And I was reflecting, like, you haven't really sat down in a context like this one.
12:53No.
12:54Like, mm-mm.
12:54Yeah.
12:55See, yeah.
12:56No.
12:56For a long time.
12:57Why not?
12:58Been busy, one.
13:00Been very busy.
13:03And there's things that I want other artists to know.
13:06You know, they see it in the same way that it's like, I want them to know.
13:10When people see a movie, you want it to look easy.
13:12I don't sit here, and understanding the joy of that it's okay if it hurts, that it's hard,
13:19that it can be confusing and you don't know.
13:22If you look at my career, it's been, it's not like happenstance that I ended up in Prague
13:27at the time that I ended up in Prague, or China when I was there, or, you know, Dubai or
13:33wherever I am,
13:34England, you know, going there in 1982, you know, to make Legend with Ridley Scott.
13:39And I, I would see those doors that open.
13:42I'm going, here's an opportunity.
13:43When I look at that time, I sincerely mean, like, I'm grateful for the amount of time
13:48that I've spent where people have shared their lives with me.
13:51Yeah.
13:51I have a question about that, but just to square the circle.
13:54So, you're saying, basically, you have not sat down in context like this one,
13:56because you don't want to reveal the magic trick.
13:59I haven't just had the time where I'm like, and I'm looking at it.
14:02It's like the journey is, you know, and where, where we're going.
14:06And, and the amount of things that I set in motion and decided I was going to do,
14:11and looking back on those things that, that I felt worked.
14:16Do you know what I mean?
14:16Yeah.
14:17Like, I went for competence.
14:18I went for skill, for whatever level that was.
14:22Being able to then go, oh, this is what I need to focus on,
14:25because I'm also, I'm a teacher, and I'm a student.
14:28So, I'm having to educate people on, on cinema and movies,
14:32and I'm being, hearing what they think, also.
14:35So, I have a question.
14:37Well, one.
14:38Yeah.
14:38What do we owe the honor, then, for you to slow down and talk to me?
14:41I swear I'm not fishing for a compliment.
14:43No, it's just, no, it's, listen, it's very nice.
14:46It's like, this is, here we are, you know, first of all,
14:50I have to say the amount of time that COVID took when we're going through it.
14:53It was, we were in a dead sprint at a, at a very long pace up, up against a lot
14:58of things
14:59to be able to, we wanted to keep everyone going and going through it and, and operating at a very,
15:04very high level.
15:05And just this, this is, this is the time to be able to talk about it.
15:10There's some lore.
15:11Again, Glenn Powell, indiscreet, though he may be, talks about, I think there's a six-hour video.
15:17Oh, he said it.
15:18I don't know, video, film, what would you call it?
15:20Six-hour instructional.
15:22He was like, I sat in the theater and watched something that Tom put together about screen
15:27acting, I believe.
15:28It's just very basic.
15:29It was, it was something where I'm going to have people understand, just have a different
15:34concept of lenses and what the lens is and what the frame is.
15:37Just the same way as a actor on stage or, you know, the development of cinema where it started,
15:42you know, and what that frame means and how to understand that frame.
15:46There's just different layers of storytelling, of structure, but also to understand certain things
15:51so that you can forget about it, but that you get it.
15:54And this is information that you share with people.
15:57I do.
15:58I sometimes hear people and sometimes that person is myself kind of refer to you as like the last
16:02movie star, but it sounds like you don't agree that you're kind of mentoring a new generation.
16:08I, look, first of all, you know, I have to say there's really talented actors.
16:12Do you know what I'm saying?
16:14Like Pitt is a great actor, great, great star, great charisma.
16:17And there's many, many, many.
16:19And I think that I want this art form or the, I'm on the set with great craftsmen as a
16:26young
16:26kid.
16:27And it's not just 1981 where they're there.
16:31It's their knowledge comes from, it's generational.
16:33So as you're making movies, you're learning from other people and then you're making it your
16:40own, but you're learning.
16:41It is a skill making films acting is, you know, it's language, you know, and it's also
16:47that trailers like showing this, it's language, it's, it's visual language, it's verbal language,
16:53it's understanding, you know, comedy in its various forms and rhythms from risky business
17:00to edge of tomorrow to less gross men to this kind of comedy drama or in drama in different
17:07ways from an eyes wide shut to a color of money, you know, and just as a, you know,
17:11magnolia, whatever you want to say, it's each one is, it takes preparation.
17:17It takes understanding to, and where you want to get to it.
17:21It's like, it just looks like you're not thinking about it.
17:24I want audiences to think about it.
17:25I don't want them to see it.
17:26I, I want them to just experience it.
17:29You, um, turned 64 last week.
17:32Yeah.
17:32Did that mean anything to you?
17:33It means I'm 64.
17:38Does it change the way you think about anything?
17:40I remember I, I once heard.
17:42It's just like, no, does it change anything?
17:47When you're looking at this, does it like, it's like, man, I'm just saying like it, it,
17:52it doesn't at all.
17:54First of all, devastating impression of me.
17:56I'm going to be haunted by that.
17:57Why, by what?
17:58By, by, by the interviewing impression.
18:00I'm going to, I'm going to hear your voice in my head.
18:03How do you feel about that for the rest of my life?
18:05It's going to haunt me.
18:06No, no, no, no, no.
18:07Um, it's, I understand.
18:08I think the reason I was asking was.
18:09Here's the thing.
18:10I don't look at, I don't, if I could, it's like, I'm just, I'm living my life and I have
18:17always dreams, but I also know to accomplish those dreams, it takes effort and you need to
18:23understand life and skills.
18:25And it's a constant learning experience.
18:27The reason I was asking, like, I, I once heard George Clooney say, like, he had a point
18:32where he had to think basically like age wise, where he thought about screen acting differently.
18:38It was like a different part he was looking for.
18:40It was a different role on screen.
18:43And I was wondering if he had some more thoughts.
18:45I don't see, I, what I see is, is I see life in a different way of stories.
18:50I see it in a way of stories and it, I don't, I don't see life in that way.
18:56I see life with this.
18:57It's like, you're looking at, you know, there's so many things that I enjoy and like doing.
19:02That's how I see life.
19:03I want to ask a question about, this is going to sound simplistic, but
19:09what it takes to be Tom Cruise.
19:11Cause I feel like I've heard you talk before about, this isn't a natural thing.
19:15This isn't like you rolled out of bed and did it.
19:18No, I didn't roll out of bed.
19:19And I, as I said, you know, it was, uh, oh, you know, you're a kid and you have a
19:25dream.
19:25I was always, I guess you call me precocious where, you know, I'd look at people and I'd
19:31look at their lives and in movies.
19:34That's what I had.
19:35I had my secret plan that I had because I knew very early on, don't tell people you have dreams,
19:40you know?
19:41It's just still a heartbreaking thing to say.
19:42Yeah, but, but it, it's really, it's, and I've talked to many people that are like,
19:47sometimes you got to keep, you know, keep things to yourself, those dreams.
19:51And, you know, I'd have it, I'd write them on a board and I had them on my wall.
19:56You know, it wasn't, I want to be famous, you know, I definitely wanted to make movies,
20:00but I wanted to travel the world and I wanted to know people and know life.
20:04And I always knew I can work like I'm a hard worker always.
20:09And I always thought inside myself, what did I know?
20:11I know I can, what I felt was I could outwork anyone.
20:15I didn't know there were barriers, meaning you're not supposed to on movie sets.
20:21You know, when I did Taps, I went and I shaved my head, you know, without telling the director.
20:25And I showed up on set and I took my hat off and went into town.
20:29And, you know, cause he said, create the character.
20:32So I was creating the character and he, and he looked at me.
20:34He's like, what, what do you do?
20:35Everything was yes, sir.
20:36No, sir.
20:37Yes, ma'am.
20:37No, ma'am.
20:38You know, I was born.
20:39My mother was, that's your background.
20:40My mother's from Kentucky, very respectful of people.
20:43And I was, the things that I was raised is just really respecting people.
20:47I always had a natural curiosity, always very interested.
20:51And I had a secret thing always I had for myself, which was always leave something better.
20:57You know, we lived in rented houses.
20:58So it was always like, make sure that the room is nicer.
21:02I was always looking, I guess, for what is the greatest amount of creation, the least amount of destruction.
21:07So if you look at my movies even, it's like, I'm always there off camera.
21:11I'm always there.
21:11When you take, cause you are known for this, taking younger actors aside, directors, producers,
21:20and kind of just being like, this is how it's done.
21:23This is what you need to know.
21:25What are you telling them?
21:26Well, I'm also listening.
21:27I listen first.
21:28What do they want?
21:29Here's my first question.
21:30It's not me.
21:31I'm, I'm more interested in what, what are their goals?
21:34What do they want?
21:34And it's not just younger people.
21:36This is me at, when I was a kid, I know it's like, I'm going, what are you interested in?
21:42Really?
21:42Yes.
21:43What is this movie about?
21:45You know, what's, what, what is this?
21:46When you're a kid, how do people react?
21:48Yeah.
21:48They'd be like, what actually, but I, but I'm curious, you know, I'm a new kid.
21:57And I'm like, I guess I was just, it's like, what do you do?
22:00Where are you from?
22:00Where you, you know, where'd you get those shoes?
22:03And what are you studying?
22:04And what's happening?
22:05And, you know, I was a kid looking out the windows.
22:07They just, the teachers are like, what's happening?
22:09You know, I will first want to know what, what things, what do they want to know about?
22:14What are they interested in?
22:15And then I get kind of interested in what they're interested in.
22:18You know, when I'm making a movie with different people, it's like, what do they think of life?
22:22And I'm interested in what do they think?
22:23I'll discuss with them what, what it means for me to make movies.
22:29And, you know, sometimes I'm always like, listen, try to know before you go.
22:34Like, don't just work with people.
22:35You've got to, who are they?
22:37What are they?
22:38What are they trying to do?
22:39Something you learned early, yeah.
22:40I had to learn early, you know, I was living in many different schools.
22:43And it taught me about human behavior, about life, but it's a, it's a journey.
22:49So people that work with me, they know they've, they, I expect a lot and it's, and I'm upfront
22:55about it.
22:55It's like, the rumors are true.
22:57And do you want this?
22:58You know, yes, we're there.
23:01I'm like, trust me, the rumors are true.
23:03I'll be here before you.
23:04I'll be like, what experience do you want?
23:07And, and I'm very open and it's not like we don't have a plan.
23:10We have scripts, we have plans, we're going through it.
23:13But I also feel the level of responsibility for, I don't know, I guess for everyone.
23:17Do you feel like you're like understood when you say this stuff that people, people get it?
23:21You know, there's things that I didn't say for many years.
23:24Like I had these things and why didn't I say it?
23:27Because I'm on the road and I wanted to understand this art form in its various forms.
23:32And I, I don't know how much sometimes they do.
23:36I, I know the people I work with, we all kind of feel the same thing.
23:40We want to do well.
23:40You know what I mean?
23:41We want to, we want to understand why do things work?
23:44Why don't they work?
23:45You know, when you start doing something, it's, I'm, I'm, I'm an all in kind of guy,
23:50Zach.
23:50I don't know what to say.
23:51I'm life.
23:52I'm coming right at it.
23:53You know what I mean?
23:54It's coming at me and I'm coming right at it.
23:56I'm, I'm a hundred percent.
23:57I am not a halfway kind of person.
23:59You know, people say, it's like, look, man, it's okay.
24:03Don't be afraid to fail, you know?
24:05And I never want to be like, you hit that peak.
24:07And it's like, there's always a new dream.
24:10You know, you're asking me about being 64.
24:12I'm going, there's, there's so much life and there's always another dream.
24:17And there's times in my life where someone was like, you know, you've done so well.
24:21Like, what else are you going to do?
24:23When I was a kid, I think we put our own barriers there.
24:25I think that a person without a dream is, is they've decided not to live.
24:30I've tested it for myself.
24:31It's true for me.
24:32I've just had such big dreams.
24:34Maybe I, you know, and it's something that it doesn't stop.
24:37It's, you know, and it doesn't stop.
24:40And it's, as I said, I'm more interested in you than me talking about this.
24:43Like, again, I have bad news for you about this.
24:46I'm literally, I'm not like this person.
24:47It's like there, I'm more interested.
24:49I don't tell people things.
24:50I'm more interested when I sit down with them.
24:52I'm going, what do you want to know?
24:54Like, what do you want from your life?
24:56You know, what I did is what I did.
24:59When you hear other people's dreams, do they like make sense to you?
25:03You know, I don't know if I walk around and ask people that.
25:05I like to know what their dreams are.
25:07And do they make sense when you hear them?
25:08Oh yeah.
25:09They're beautiful.
25:10And you see how they're creating it.
25:11Those things you're going, wow, for what, for better or worse, you, you're there.
25:17Wow.
25:17You decided to get in the car, man.
25:19Yeah.
25:19You know, I mean, I hate to say it, but it's, you know, ask now for whom the
25:23bell tolls, you know?
25:25And when you say creating it, what do you mean?
25:27Meaning like you decided what shoes to wear today.
25:30I did.
25:30You decided the shirt.
25:31I did.
25:32There's, there's, there's an actual, like the way I look at life is that has an effect.
25:36Those decisions are, you chose those things for whatever reason.
25:40And it's an emotional thing.
25:41You're not thinking about it.
25:42And it has a certain effect on the environment.
25:47I'm saying it is simplicity.
25:48It's like, what environment does it, what, what effect does it have?
25:51Look at the, look at the effects of, of choices.
25:55And what are the results of that?
25:57You know?
25:57And we all know it.
25:58It's like you put a drop of pebble in a pond, you kind of see it ripple out.
26:01It does ripple out.
26:02Butterfly effect.
26:03We all have an effect.
26:05You know, some people say, look, I would just want to say hello.
26:07I'm a nobody.
26:07I said, please don't ever say that to me.
26:09I've never met a nobody in my entire life.
26:12Everyone has a story.
26:14Everybody's life has a journey and a story.
26:16And it's, if you take a moment and you're learning, it's fascinating.
26:20And it's interesting.
26:21And I'm interested.
26:22Look at the light in here.
26:23Look at the architecture, you know, and seeing things where I'm looking at
26:27civilization and the designs and why the designs and how that affects and what happens.
26:32And, but it's all those things in terms of.
26:36I hear you say that and my head just spins.
26:38I'm like, I'm like, is that really the level that we're processing every day?
26:43Yes, but it's not that complicated.
26:45It's more emotional, you know, it's more experiential than, than, than I'm just kind
26:51of analytically, but, but I can, but you're very outwardly directed.
26:55I am.
26:56I say, you know, I am.
26:59Yeah.
26:59You ask why now it's, uh, you know, you kind of wake up and you realize, well,
27:04there's a few things I know.
27:05And if people want to know it in the same way that things were imparted to me and I
27:10want other artists, like they're there, they're like, I'm nervous of this.
27:12It's like, that's okay.
27:14It's okay.
27:15Like, do I feel scared?
27:17Yeah, but I don't mind it.
27:19And I'm what I mean by that.
27:20It's not some brave thing where I'm doing.
27:22It's like, it's okay.
27:24That's, that's life.
27:25You know, there's uncertainties and your willingness to tolerate those uncertainties
27:29is taking you to the places that it has.
27:31Yeah.
27:31And you know what, the things that I do, and sometimes like, even when I was a kid,
27:34they're like, oh, come on, Tom, you know, like I'm just, you're so intense.
27:38I don't know what to say.
27:39I am intense, you know, I, you know, I, I got a very good sense of humor about it,
27:45but I, I was like when I'm interested in something, but it's like, I want to learn it.
27:49I want to understand it.
27:50And you want to blast through the confusion and kind of build up that ability.
27:54And the certainty you can get is learning skills and learning those skills, but also being
27:59able to evaluate, do these tools work?
28:01It's like building bridges, engineering, they're theories.
28:05Does the theory work?
28:07When you build a bridge, can people drive across it?
28:10So theory, the theory works, right?
28:12Flying.
28:13It's the whole thing.
28:14It's like, whatever it is, there's a theory and it's, it's as accurate as it's
28:19in a practical empirical way.
28:22Did it work?
28:22That's all.
28:23There's the question of like, does the parachute deploy when you ride the motorcycle off the
28:28cliff?
28:28Yes.
28:28But then there's must be the feeling that when it does and it must feel incredible.
28:33Exactly.
28:33That's exactly it.
28:34I want to say in its simplicity to me, and it's always been, that's life.
28:40Now I want to train so I can open the parachute.
28:43You know what I mean?
28:43When I was a kid, I was a kid, literally, I was like, I took the monkey bars, I pulled
28:47it over and my mom was in the thing.
28:49And I, I had like this GI Joe, you know, you throw it up.
28:52I've told this story before a parachute goes down, ripped the sheets off my bed, took ropes,
28:56and I climbed the monkey bar, climb up on the roof, climb up on the, on the high part.
29:00And I jumped off, didn't work.
29:01So you want to go, at that moment, I remember I was about four years old, I was like, there's
29:06something more to this than this.
29:08I went back, looked at my GI Joe, I was like, okay, I don't understand this.
29:13But I'm not doing that again, but I'm going to figure it out one day, you know?
29:16And you did.
29:17Yeah.
29:18But that's, that's the stuff, man.
29:23I didn't tell you, but I've recently dislocated my shoulder.
29:25So we got to, we got to be careful.
29:27Yeah.
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