FIRST SHOW OF ITS KIND: MOTHER CALLS IN!

Name: FIRST SHOW OF ITS KIND: MOTHER CALLS IN!
Uploaded: 2023-08-23T18:07:27+00:00
Duration: 2 h 9 min 12 s
Channel: Stefan Molyneux
Description: A son demands that his mother calls into Freedomain to talk to philosopher Stefan Molyneux... An astounding conversation ensues... Join the PREMIUM philosophy community on the web for free! Get access to StefBOT-AI, private livestreams, premium call in shows, my new book and the History of Philosophers series! See you soon! https://freedomain.locals.com/support/promo/UPB2022

00:00:00 I guess if you would like to read the email that'd be fine. Sure. So this is what you wrote

00:00:04 I've been married for 33 years. My husband and I have not been sexually intimate for eight years. He is unhappy

00:00:11 He started showing signs of sexual dysfunction about 12 years into the marriage. I suggested we seek

00:00:16 Counseling to see what was going on soon after that. I discovered he was looking at pornography

00:00:21 He was sexually molested as a young man and seemed to prefer masturbation to our sex life

00:00:27 There has been a lot of things that have happened since then which has destroyed any trust in him

00:00:34 Does that seem about right?

00:00:37 Yeah, I summed that up better than I recalled good good. All right

00:00:41 Well, you know, it's tough to do 33 years in in a sentence or two, but you certainly managed it

00:00:46 You certainly managed it. Ah

00:00:47 Well, I would say where do you want to begin? I mean probably his childhood your childhood like how how you met all of that

00:00:55 Sure

00:00:57 We met

00:00:59 We worked in the same place. I had been previously married and had just

00:01:06 finished up going through a divorce and met him about him maybe a month after that and

00:01:13 Thought it was wise to marry him six months later. I definitely don't you know hindsight you realize that was not a not a great idea

00:01:25 So we married six months after I had divorced so I basically divorced and married in the same year

00:01:31 When I

00:01:35 Started up what was the separation time frame, you know, some people separate for years and then the divorce is more paperwork

00:01:43 But when you see the divorce the married what was the what was the sequence there? It was not separated

00:01:49 I probably divorced divorce started in

00:01:54 January and we were divorced by March. So it wasn't a very it was a quick. It was very quick. I was very young

00:02:00 Didn't have a whole lot of assets or anything to split up. So it was just basically a legal legal thing

00:02:06 Okay, got it. And so how long were you married that first time?

00:02:09 Six and a half years Wow. Okay, so you weren't that young right? Okay

00:02:14 Well, I was pretty young when I married when I was 19 the first time so that's pretty young, right?

00:02:20 Okay, got it. So yeah, okay

00:02:22 Okay, and so when I was dating my husband

00:02:27 He mentioned that he had been

00:02:31 Sexually molested as a kid. I think around 10 11

00:02:37 Didn't didn't talk we didn't talk a lot about it and I

00:02:42 You know, I didn't I didn't ask a lot of questions

00:02:45 I didn't have a lot of frame of reference of what exactly that I mean, I knew what it meant, but

00:02:51 I didn't I didn't ask a lot of questions. Basically

00:02:53 We talked about it. Yeah. Sorry. What did he say about it?

00:02:58 he said when he was 10 or 11 he

00:03:01 He was at a family gathering and at a I understand correctly and next door

00:03:10 Next door was a family member. I guess at their house and it was

00:03:15 some men who I believe

00:03:20 masturbated

00:03:22 Him and I don't know if anybody else was there but and then show and showed them pornography

00:03:26 That was that's the general idea of oh

00:03:28 I am NOT I'm not 100% sure on that. So I don't know if it was just him alone

00:03:37 You know, that's a question. I guess I should have asked. I don't know if it was him or it sounded

00:03:42 I had the impression maybe some other kids were involved, but I'm honestly not I'm not 100% sure on that

00:03:50 And it was it a one-time thing did it recur

00:03:53 I

00:03:56 Believe that it may have recurred, you know a couple of times

00:04:00 again, he's the

00:04:03 Information has always been a little

00:04:06 Slim as to what exactly happened. So I've only you know, I've only heard about basically

00:04:11 Maybe one may be once or twice

00:04:16 Wait, you've only heard about it once or twice or maybe it only happened once or twice

00:04:19 I think it maybe it only happened once or twice

00:04:22 That I'm aware of

00:04:25 Why why did you I mean this sounds accusatory? I don't mean it that way. I'm just genuinely curious why I mean

00:04:32 This is a formatic and sorry

00:04:34 Hey, I put dramatic and formative together in some weird way

00:04:38 But so this is a formative experience of obviously significantly traumatic. I suppose it's you know first exposure to two sexual

00:04:45 Activities and you didn't really ask him that much and I guess I'm just so curious why you wouldn't be more curious

00:04:51 um, I

00:04:53 Later, I didn't ask him at the time. We were dating and I don't know I guess

00:04:58 Maybe I thought it was it was such a traumatic thing for him. I didn't want to question

00:05:03 You know, like give me all the details. I guess that was my that was what I was thinking

00:05:08 Oh you saw him and sorry the idea is that the the solution to trauma is to bottle it up

00:05:12 Is that like talk about it? No, you're you're right. I mean I

00:05:16 Know that wasn't like that

00:05:19 I appreciate that as a first pass at trying to convince me of something but that kind of been the reason like nobody really thinks

00:05:25 That right, right. Yeah

00:05:27 No, you're saying that I that couldn't have been the reason why I didn't know that was reasonable

00:05:32 Yeah, because no, but nobody says there. Oh, well, this is really really upsetting to you

00:05:37 The most important thing is that we never talk about it, right that nobody really thinks that right

00:05:41 So that had to be that to be some other reason that you didn't want to ask him about it. I

00:05:45 Guess part of me didn't want to hear the details. Okay, that's great. Why didn't you want to hear the details?

00:05:54 And again, I don't mean this in an accusatory way like why the hell I don't mean that at all

00:06:02 I just genuinely curious why yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I understand. I understand. And yeah, I kind of yeah, I get what you're saying

00:06:09 um

00:06:11 I

00:06:13 Don't know that I I

00:06:15 Don't

00:06:19 Let me give you an analogy right so if if if

00:06:22 You were going into business with someone and this was going to be you were putting your house up for mortgage

00:06:28 You were taking a massive loans. You were pouring in your life savings and

00:06:31 you said

00:06:34 And your business part to said to said to you. Well, you know I was I

00:06:38 Had with I had a terrible business relationship in the past

00:06:41 I got stolen from and I almost got thrown in jail and you know, there was a massive investigation

00:06:48 I mean before you poured your life savings into this wouldn't you want to find out more?

00:06:52 Yes, I would yeah

00:06:56 I mean clearly you wouldn't say well if it's upsetting for him to talk about I guess I'll I won't do it

00:07:02 I mean, of course if it was that upsetting he wouldn't have talked about it at all

00:07:04 So I guess that's that's my curiosity. So you didn't want to go to details and I

00:07:09 Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean I understand what you're saying and I I

00:07:14 regret that

00:07:17 not asking more questions

00:07:19 and I

00:07:21 Know I've tried to think back because it was it was a long time ago and and I think why?

00:07:25 Didn't I ask more and I wish I had a more

00:07:28 definitive answer

00:07:32 I

00:07:34 Well, you know you do you do know why right I mean you've probably heard these calls before right like, you know

00:07:40 You know that I don't know is never an answer right because I mean right you may know it may not be easy

00:07:46 No, but but you know

00:07:48 I

00:07:51 Well, if I don't figure it out, I'm sure you're gonna help me with that

00:07:55 maybe I just didn't want to know and didn't want to make it an

00:07:59 Important thing like I was like, oh, it'll be fine. I don't want to think about it. I mean, okay, but but

00:08:05 but why still not ask questions because if a man has been preyed upon in this kind of way, right and the reason I'm

00:08:13 asking is

00:08:15 He was he was masturbated by an older man, right as

00:08:19 Yeah, when he was 10 or 10 or 11, he was masturbated by an older man

00:08:23 And now that he's older he masturbates himself, right? So he's gonna become right

00:08:29 What happened to him earlier?

00:08:31 Yeah, so I mean if somebody's been

00:08:35 Molested I did you guys have do you have kids?

00:08:38 Yes

00:08:40 Okay. So yeah, if somebody's been molested

00:08:42 it's important to find that out to find out if it's been dealt with or if there's more stuff that needs to be dealt with

00:08:48 To be processed and so on because you know

00:08:50 There is a cycle to these kinds of things and you wouldn't want to put your own kids at any kind of risk

00:08:55 I'm not saying they were right, but you've got to sort of sort that out

00:08:58 So this isn't just like a little thing

00:09:00 Right, you know like if I you know when I was 12, I lost my keys

00:09:04 You're like you're home. Tell me more, you know

00:09:06 I mean, it's yeah, but this is this is a very sort of important and deep thing and it turns out it probably has had

00:09:12 You know massive effects on your marriage. We haven't had sex in eight years, right?

00:09:16 so and and of course everybody knows that you know first sexual experience, particularly if it's predatory and

00:09:21 Illegal and vile and horrible in this kind of way, you know, it's gonna have an effect

00:09:27 so there is a

00:09:29 Reason why you didn't ask

00:09:32 Okay, I

00:09:39 Mean I have a theory but

00:09:44 But well, I would love you can think of something

00:09:47 No, I would love to hear your theory. Maybe that'll make me figure out what you know, what what I was thinking

00:09:53 Yeah, oh because you were desperate for a relationship and you didn't want to find out that this guy had problems

00:09:58 Because then you would be out of a relationship and maybe you couldn't start getting out of a relationship

00:10:03 Okay. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I get you

00:10:06 You know, I'm going for a fairly significant data that you jumped from one marriage to another in a year

00:10:11 So codependent may be a little desperate for relationships and you don't want to ask those questions

00:10:16 You know, like if you win the lottery ticket, you don't sit there and say hey man

00:10:21 Can you run this again just to just to make sure it's not by accident you just grab the money and run, right?

00:10:26 Right, you're right. You were correct. You're correct. Yes, that makes that makes sense. Yeah, I didn't want to be alone

00:10:33 Yeah, okay. I

00:10:35 Get that 100% Yeah, and you didn't want to be alone. So you didn't ask that in questions. So what ended up?

00:10:41 Made another mistake. Well, you've ended up alone

00:10:47 Right. Well, yeah true. You're right. I mean, I know you're still married, but I mean only only in words, right?

00:10:53 Mm-hmm. I mean, we're you know, yeah, I mean maybe not in the way most husbands and wives are married, correct?

00:11:01 Well, I mean nobody's married exactly the way that other people are married but you know sexual

00:11:10 Sexuality is really the I mean that's why marriage exists, right? It's because we we have sex

00:11:15 We have babies and babies need protection and we pair bond and and so on right?

00:11:20 Yes, so yeah, I mean, I know that there's some people who can't have sex and medical reasons or whatever, right?

00:11:27 but

00:11:30 Marriage without sex

00:11:32 It's like business without profit. I mean it could go for a while, but there's not really a business as far as I know it

00:11:38 I see. Yeah

00:11:41 Okay. All right

00:11:44 So let's go back to I guess your early story

00:11:48 about

00:11:51 Why you were

00:11:53 Desperate for a relationship to the point that you wouldn't ask sort of basic vetting questions, right? So

00:11:58 Had you in that situation when you were younger?

00:12:02 Well, I guess I married young the first time and got out on my own and then

00:12:13 Yeah

00:12:15 The guy I was married to got involved with another person another girl and

00:12:22 So I

00:12:26 Was

00:12:28 Left left by myself again and or I you know left by myself because we divorced and

00:12:34 Boy, you're really working hard to not tell me about your child. I

00:12:38 Was born at the age of 18. I was already married

00:12:41 Okay, no, no, okay my childhood I I came from a

00:12:47 Family who my parents remained married the whole time. It was a good family. I didn't I

00:12:53 Didn't have any childhood trauma

00:12:56 I grew up in a family with Christian values and morals and so

00:13:05 I don't I didn't have anything traumatic happened to me. I mean my dad was a great guy. He taught school and

00:13:12 people loved him and my mom mostly homemaker and

00:13:16 took care of me and my another sibling and

00:13:19 So I don't I didn't have anything really

00:13:24 You know terrible what happened to me as a child and how were you disciplined as a child?

00:13:32 I mean I was I was a pretty good kid and most of the time I there when I was younger

00:13:37 You know that my parents did believe in spanking

00:13:39 But I didn't really get disciplined too often because I wanted to be a good kid and do the right thing

00:13:47 so I

00:13:49 I didn't get in trouble very often. I mean even as a teenager I didn't know not to say that I was

00:13:55 Perfect. I I did some stuff. I just didn't get caught

00:13:58 You know silly teenager stuff that you do and just a little bit of rebellion

00:14:02 But nothing big or major so I didn't I mean I wasn't the kind of kid that did drugs or anything like that

00:14:11 Just average small-town teenager I guess and how often would you get spanked?

00:14:19 Not very often

00:14:25 Because I didn't I

00:14:27 Don't have a lot of recall of getting spanked more than just you know, maybe

00:14:31 One or two times when I was younger and that was it. I

00:14:34 Mean that was young. Sorry to interrupt if your parent like if you did something your parents didn't like or

00:14:40 Was against their sort of ethics

00:14:42 How else would they deal with it?

00:14:45 I

00:14:49 Guess

00:14:52 We would talk about it, I mean I'm trying to pull up a memory from my past

00:14:58 Yeah, my dad would my dad, you know, he my dad was strict and so he would you know

00:15:05 but we would talk about it and then

00:15:07 And then that was it

00:15:11 I mean we talked about it and I accept I guess this was the rule and I

00:15:15 Just didn't get into a lot of trouble. I didn't do a whole lot of things to get into trouble. So, okay

00:15:21 That's I'm not trying to make things up with around

00:15:23 Right, I'm you know, I always feel like I'm a metal detector, but if there's no metal I don't just go

00:15:29 No, that's fine and what about siblings I have a sister

00:15:38 She she was younger

00:15:47 We got along, okay, we didn't we weren't super super close

00:15:51 She was the one that did get a trouble a little bit more than me

00:15:54 She was kind of a little the little rebellion troublemaker a little bit not bad

00:15:58 But just you know, she would she would go against the grain of what the parents were saying more than I did

00:16:03 But again nothing too extreme, right? No, correct. Correct. Yeah. Okay, so then

00:16:12 You got married let's just call the guy Jake right there's your first okay your first husband so tell me how that came about

00:16:18 We were in high school together

00:16:21 Knew each other from wire and just became friends and

00:16:26 Fell in love as young people do and

00:16:32 My parents married young they married at 19

00:16:37 and so I guess I always kind of thought well you get married when you get out of high school and

00:16:42 You marry young and so they they weren't opposed to us getting married young

00:16:47 So I finished a year of a university and then we got married after my freshman year

00:16:53 You literally got your MRS degree, right?

00:16:55 Right and so yeah that so that was so we just knew each other, you know a couple of years as kids, you know and

00:17:05 What did your parents think of our good friend Jake

00:17:11 They liked him, I mean they could kind of he came from a

00:17:15 Family that was having a lot of family problems

00:17:20 His friends were yeah

00:17:23 Yeah, yes, you're right

00:17:33 and I am

00:17:35 So yeah, his dad had an alcohol problem

00:17:38 his mom put up with the alcohol problem and then they were gonna divorce and then they get back together and so

00:17:43 You know kind of it was in hindsight. I think like

00:17:48 Rescuing him maybe from his family situation because he wanted to get out of the house. And so well, let's get married

00:17:55 So that'll get you out of your your bad family situation. I

00:18:00 Mean that's a pretty bad family situation like rampant alcoholism. I assume and and right all that goes with that, right? Like

00:18:07 the problem with growing up with alcoholics are really addicts of any kind is

00:18:12 It's very very hard if not impossible

00:18:14 To develop the capacity for a stable pair bond. So the fact that he ends up cheating on you is kind of predictable, right?

00:18:22 yeah, I mean I didn't realize that as a

00:18:26 You know 20 year old but yes, I do. No, no, you're not supposed to know that as a 20 year old

00:18:31 Who's supposed to know that?

00:18:33 My parents, right? Yeah, it's fine to get married in your teens

00:18:38 As in your late teens fine to get married

00:18:41 But your parents because you're such a young person, right? I mean you're still like close to a half decade away from brain maturity

00:18:48 So it's fine

00:18:51 To get married in your late teens, but your parents

00:18:55 Better vet the living heck out of your husband

00:18:59 You're right. So what did they do? I mean that this wasn't even subtle right?

00:19:04 It's an alcoholic divorce ridden abuse neglect all this sort of stuff, right?

00:19:08 So what did they did they sit down and say? Oh man, you guys got to go through premarital counseling

00:19:14 We need to really cross-examine this guy because we're inviting him into the family and you know

00:19:19 Because you grew up in such a nice environment, you know

00:19:22 If you grew up in a city, you don't know the science of when there are Tigers around, right?

00:19:26 So you don't just put your kids out the African

00:19:29 Velvet and say good luck, you know, I mean if you if you grew up in a nice environment

00:19:35 then

00:19:37 Your parents need to help you make good decisions in a dangerous world, right?

00:19:42 Correct. Yeah, you're right. No, they they knew him and I mean he had

00:19:48 He had kind of you know, he'd been at my house. And so I guess they kind of felt like they had

00:19:53 Been a been a good influence on him

00:19:56 and so they

00:19:59 That that

00:20:04 Just being like that the cure for serious dysfunction is just kind of hanging around with less fun like with functional people

00:20:11 I don't know that. I mean, I

00:20:15 Can't really I don't know. Yeah, that's a good question. They have both

00:20:18 You told me that that was sort of the theory that they would just like rubbed off on him or

00:20:24 Yeah, I mean I'm making that assumption I guess because there was never a I did not have a conversation

00:20:32 with my parents that was like, I mean they did want us to do premarital counseling and

00:20:37 Did I do it? No, I did. Well, I think we did a little bit but not anything

00:20:43 You know, it was like maybe a couple of sessions where you fill out a form and you kind of look at what you're compatible

00:20:49 But I don't we didn't really like

00:20:51 Yeah

00:20:55 Yeah, so we didn't do an intensive like let's go over, you know how your life's gonna go and let's spend six months

00:21:01 We did not do that. Yeah a lot of times instead of going to the gym

00:21:05 I'll just check off went to the gym and

00:21:08 I don't need to eat a meal. I need to check off that. I ate a meal and I'm full right? Okay. Yeah, right

00:21:14 so

00:21:16 And your parents were happy that you were getting married

00:21:18 I mean they did suggest some premarital counseling

00:21:20 But you know that sort of like maybe you should stretch a little before you go for a run

00:21:24 It's like but it's not that big a deal if you don't right

00:21:27 Right. Yes that that is correct. They were happy. Yeah, they were fine with me getting married

00:21:32 Okay, so they were completely wrong

00:21:37 Like completely and totally and heartbreakingly wrong, I'm not trying to dig on your parents

00:21:42 I'm just sort of pointing out the facts as you're mentioning

00:21:45 Yes, I yes, I have thought about this very thing and thought why didn't they?

00:21:51 Stop me. Yeah, why didn't they go? Wait a minute? Yeah, I did I have that has that thoughts have occurred to me

00:21:57 Those thoughts have occurred to me. Yes, and do you know why in particular for women?

00:22:01 Why do you why do you jump from relationship to relationship or this sort of codependent need a partner kind of thing?

00:22:07 Do you know what the primary driver is for that?

00:22:09 I

00:22:13 Guess the primary driver, I guess I I

00:22:18 Don't know that. I do know the primary driver. I guess just feel a need to be with somebody

00:22:24 Well, that's just another way of saying like why do people need to feel?

00:22:28 Why do people really want to be with someone because they feel the need to be with someone it's like that doesn't really

00:22:32 Yeah, okay the equation

00:22:34 Right, why are people rich they have money? No, no

00:22:37 Maybe I need to feel loved. Well, I mean we all have that right but that doesn't this okay

00:22:46 But you end up not feeling left, right?

00:22:48 You didn't end up feeling like your first part probably don't feel very light

00:22:51 So if you really have a need to feel loved then you go about it carefully, right?

00:22:54 right

00:22:57 Like I'm not I'm missing the question or missing the answer to this question again well

00:23:03 In particular women why do it doesn't woman run from man to man because she's

00:23:07 Insecure because she feels in danger, right?

00:23:10 Okay, because there's something in the world that is a threat and she needs a protector

00:23:15 Okay

00:23:18 Okay, I'll

00:23:20 Think about that one. I've never really thought about myself

00:23:23 Being insecure, but yes, I can see that. Yeah

00:23:30 Okay, so I'm listen I don't want to tell you about you right you've lived with yourself for decades

00:23:35 we've been talking for a cozy 14 minutes, right so right I I

00:23:39 Don't if you don't feel like you're insecure and my theory is not applicable

00:23:43 We absolutely will toss the theory aside and work with something else. So please tell me about your thoughts regarding that. I

00:23:49 mean, I guess I

00:23:52 Guess I I

00:23:56 mean, I guess everybody has a certain level of

00:24:00 Insecurity with themselves, but I felt I guess I felt like for the most part I had been secure with

00:24:06 My life, you know, and maybe as a younger maybe as a younger person

00:24:10 Maybe maybe I was a little bit more insecure

00:24:14 But I feel like maybe maturity and growth I'm more secure than I I

00:24:19 Don't want to ramble no no ramble away

00:24:23 Well, I'm just trying to think about what I'm what I'm saying, yeah

00:24:29 I guess I've never thought of myself as being insecure

00:24:33 I felt pretty secure and what you know when what I've done through life and made decisions, but um

00:24:38 But maybe I was deceiving myself and maybe I was more insecure and that's why I was

00:24:45 I don't I don't go with I don't believe that's true

00:24:51 But maybe I'm just lying to myself like if you don't feel like you're insecure

00:24:54 That's that's what we'll go with. I mean the reason that I had this

00:24:59 question is you know you

00:25:02 You you married a guy?

00:25:05 With clear red flags, right? So the first guy you married alcoholic family like absolutely clear

00:25:11 red flags

00:25:13 Right. I mean if if my daughter wanted to marry, you know, you get to talk to like official dad guy now, right?

00:25:19 So if my daughter wanted to marry a guy a very young guy who was desperate to get out of his abusive household

00:25:25 What would I say?

00:25:28 Yeah, and you would probably advise her not to oh

00:25:31 It would be more than an advice

00:25:33 Yeah, it would be more than an advice and I would also of course really sit down and grill

00:25:41 Like the soul out of that young man, right? I would cross-examine I would grill I would you know

00:25:48 Spend dozens of hours trying to I would sit down with the family

00:25:52 I would like, you know, you got a vet right because your kids are young right, right? Yeah

00:25:57 Because because I would have to spend a lot of time with these people

00:26:00 These people would be heavily involved in the raising of my grandchildren

00:26:03 Like that's you know

00:26:06 I would at least I would at least spend as much time vetting that as I would I don't know if I want to buy

00:26:12 A new car or a new computer right vet something research, right?

00:26:15 Yeah, so you married

00:26:18 The wrong first guy if I know we're really glossing it over right? So it just forgive me for the oversimplification

00:26:25 But you married the wrong first guy because you didn't vet or your parents didn't vet right?

00:26:30 right, and then so so that was the issue right and

00:26:34 Then you married the second guy

00:26:37 Who told you about his dysfunction just as the first guy did well my first marriage failed because I didn't vet

00:26:44 So, you know what I should do is absolutely not vet the second guy

00:26:47 Right. So that means you have an over like you have a driver desire

00:26:54 for a relationship

00:26:56 But no vetting

00:26:59 And it wasn't like these guys were hiding that dysfunction from you they you saw it they told you all about it, right

00:27:05 Or they at least they told you about it. I mean you're a second husband

00:27:10 It was probably dropping this to see if you would care about him enough to ask more, right?

00:27:16 Because men do that right like if you're vulnerable like if we if we talk about a vulnerability with a woman

00:27:25 We won't go into it in great detail because we don't know if the vulnerability is

00:27:30 something that she is it cares about and wants to know more about because she cares about us in her history or

00:27:36 If she's like no, no, no, you have to be the tough guy

00:27:38 I don't want to hear about it the stinking vulnerability stuff in a way, right?

00:27:41 So that that's where I got some of the insecurity stuff and by insecurity I just mean that you don't feel particularly safe

00:27:52 Okay, right so if your parents didn't vet and you didn't vet the first guy and it was a disaster

00:27:57 Did you have kids with the first guy?

00:28:00 No, no. Okay. So you start a marriage right? I guess out of house, right? Yeah

00:28:05 Yeah, so you you didn't vet and it was a disaster and then you actively avoided vetting the second guy

00:28:11 And you did you did your parents vet the second guy? Did they say whoa? Whoa? Okay, so sorry

00:28:18 We we really missed the red flags on the first guy. But boy what a disaster that marriage turned out to be

00:28:25 So as parents boy, you know, we gotta we got to turn this around

00:28:30 We got to make sure that that we vet the the second guy

00:28:33 Because we all missed the signs on the first guy man. We we got to make sure this marriage is is better

00:28:39 Yeah, no, you know, I

00:28:44 Because I had some reservations about whether I was doing the right thing

00:28:50 marrying so quickly and I

00:28:53 Did go to my parents and

00:28:56 I

00:28:58 Believe he was with me and we did have a discussion about whether

00:29:02 This is okay. And I mean, yeah, I guess they

00:29:06 They were like, oh, yeah, they they were like, yeah, I think I think it's fine

00:29:12 So I did get their blessing

00:29:14 So

00:29:18 You see why I say that you might have felt unprotected

00:29:21 Yeah, I do. I do I see what you're saying

00:29:26 Huh?

00:29:27 Did you share with your parents? Did you share with your parents?

00:29:31 the

00:29:33 molestation history of your husband to be

00:29:35 I

00:29:41 Don't I I doubt it. I don't I don't I don't know if I did. Yeah, you may be right

00:29:46 I mean, I know at some point I did later on as but because signs begin to happen in the marriage

00:29:51 But I don't know if it was before that. I might not if I you're right

00:29:55 I probably didn't but I don't recall because it's been so yeah. Yeah. I know it's been a long time

00:30:00 I'm sure that you didn't because if you wouldn't even ask your husband to be about what happened in detail

00:30:06 Because then I might not be able to get married to him

00:30:10 Mm-hmm, right. So so

00:30:12 The reason I say that you feel insecure is is it just means that you feel unprotected

00:30:17 Okay, and in my view your parents did not do even 1% of what was needed to do to help protect you

00:30:25 Agreed. Let me ask you this. Let me ask you this

00:30:29 Were you I'm not saying you want now but back in the day. Were you a sweet and pretty young thing?

00:30:34 Yes, okay, so a

00:30:39 Good-looking young woman, right?

00:30:41 I mean without any sense of modesty or nonsense like that

00:30:47 You your friends the boys when you were?

00:30:50 19 how would you rate yourself in terms of looks sort of 1 to 10?

00:30:54 Yeah, I looked good, yeah attractive so 9 or 10 come on let's just be

00:31:09 Okay, and see 10 doesn't mean perfect I don't know why people are so illiterate that they think that means absolutely perfect

00:31:15 I mean, that's not true. It just means top 10% right? Okay. I like that. Yeah. Yeah, so

00:31:21 So you were a

00:31:26 beautiful young woman and

00:31:27 Again, I always hate to say this to women who are a little older because it's not like you were beautiful

00:31:32 I'm just saying that probably beautiful now, but I'm just saying back then you were right a beautiful young woman. Yeah

00:31:38 and so

00:31:40 your beauty was a

00:31:43 Bit of a danger magnet, right?

00:31:46 Yeah, I mean, you know what I'm talking about, right? Correct. Yeah. All right. Tell me tell me the danger that your beauty represented

00:31:55 I mean, I guess you're saying like I did often have

00:32:01 And making passes saying things, you know, even when I was married to my first husband, you know trying to

00:32:08 You know flirty and stuff like that. Is that I'm assuming that's maybe what you mean by just always having to you know

00:32:17 Feel guys like no, I'm married. I can't you know do that

00:32:20 Well, not just that but even before getting married

00:32:25 Right, so even before getting married, yeah the big the big danger for beautiful women, of course is why is the man choosing me?

00:32:31 Is it for my virtues? Is it for my character?

00:32:34 Is it for my morals and my ethics and my intelligence and my integrity or or you know?

00:32:40 Is it I fit this particular silhouette and I have fertility markers up the wazoo

00:32:45 Yeah, yeah, and I don't think that was ever a thought out thought in my head if that, you know a younger age of you know

00:32:53 18 19 whatever. Yeah, I'm sorry. Are your parents not aware of the sin of lust? I thought you said they were good Christians

00:33:00 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, they were I don't know. I guess I didn't think about it in terms of me. I don't know what

00:33:08 well, I

00:33:10 Know they didn't think about it in terms of you with them

00:33:13 but I mean, you know, I mean the fact that if you have a

00:33:17 beautiful young woman as your daughter

00:33:22 Being aware that some men are going to choose her for her looks and that's a terrible basis for a relationship

00:33:27 I mean, that's a pretty important thing to talk about isn't it?

00:33:30 Yeah, yeah

00:33:34 Yeah, and I don't parents talk to you about that

00:33:37 In in not I

00:33:45 Guess a little but not like really specific like urgent like you really need to think about this

00:33:51 Yeah, it was just like a general, you know, you talk about it and you don't

00:33:56 We really are sailing in a fog

00:34:00 What did they say? What did they say that you recall?

00:34:04 Remembering much of a conversation about you know, be careful about the

00:34:09 The lust that the guys are gonna happen. It was always like, you know, you got to be dressed modestly

00:34:14 You're you're a Christian young lady

00:34:17 and so you had to behave properly and

00:34:21 But I don't know behave properly this yeah, behave properly. That's the extent of the beauty management

00:34:29 Yeah, I think maybe yeah, I'm not pulling up anything else actually

00:34:35 I don't want to discredit my parents as you know, but I just can't nothing's coming to mind right now that they were like

00:34:43 Be really careful about this guy. I mean, you know, they I did have a bad a bad boyfriend

00:34:48 I guess before my husband and they didn't like him and and they kind of intervened and helped me

00:34:55 Like remember like you told me he's a bad guy and you need to get away from him

00:34:59 So so he was a bad guy. So your parents are okay that they're good at identifying some bad guys

00:35:05 So what was what were the red flags they saw in him?

00:35:09 Well, I mean I found out he had another you know girlfriend and he was kind of wild and known as a partier and they

00:35:16 Thought he was you know, a bad it would be a bad

00:35:18 Bad influence on me. Yeah

00:35:21 So you got three guys

00:35:23 No, you got you got three guys cheating on you, right? Yeah. Yeah, right

00:35:28 So you've got you got one guy cheated on you with another girlfriend

00:35:31 You had a husband who cheated on you with another woman and you've got a guy who's kind of cheating on you with pornography

00:35:37 Do I have that correct?

00:35:38 Yeah, yeah

00:35:40 Right. Okay. I'm always looking for these kinds of patterns, right?

00:35:44 Yeah

00:35:47 You

00:35:49 Did did your parents I mean we all see pictures of our parents when they were younger, right?

00:35:54 Did your parents like what your mother very pretty when she was younger? Did she have sort of experience with this?

00:36:00 Or or was this kind of like you're a bit of an outlier in the in the family history

00:36:05 And maybe they didn't have much experience with this stuff

00:36:09 Yeah, no, I'd say that my parents my mom was yeah pretty girl and but they didn't have any

00:36:16 Experience with that. I mean they met at college and got married quickly

00:36:20 Married quickly too, right? So yeah, right, right

00:36:25 Which would you say?

00:36:27 I'm sorry. Go ahead. I was gonna say but they're married. I mean they stay together their marriage for you know, 50 years

00:36:36 Well, you've stayed together with your husband for 33 years. So that doesn't always mean

00:36:40 Everything and I'm not trying to diss your parents marriage, but staying together isn't always the yeah, it was the great thing but

00:36:47 Would you say that when your mother was younger? Was she more pretty than you less pretty than you are about the same?

00:36:52 I

00:36:59 Really don't know how to answer that question. I mean she was attractive I guess maybe the same

00:37:06 Okay, so and do you know if your mother had any sort of bad boyfriends or negative experiences before she got married

00:37:12 To my knowledge she did not

00:37:15 He didn't date a whole lot

00:37:18 Right. Okay. Okay, and

00:37:21 How old were you when you had the first?

00:37:23 loser boyfriend

00:37:26 Boyfriend

00:37:29 Probably

00:37:33 16 yeah, probably 16 and what drew you to him? Oh

00:37:39 He was just one of those guy personalities that was

00:37:47 Yeah, he was just a big talker and funny and and I thought he was cute and

00:37:56 There's nothing wrong with big big talk. Yeah, he said defensively. No, I'm kidding show

00:38:01 Thousand and three hundred or something. All right. No, okay. So and I guess one of the things I guess obviously he had charisma and all

00:38:08 of that but right how susceptible are you to

00:38:12 a tasty slice of man meat a himbo a

00:38:15 Square jaw tall dark and handsome kind of guy. Are you a looks person? Some people are some people aren't it's not good or bad

00:38:22 I'm just curious

00:38:23 Yeah, um, I I think I was yeah more susceptible than I am now

00:38:29 But yeah, I mean I had to be attracted to them

00:38:33 People are a little more generally it's more men than women although it can be women movement. It seems these days are more that way

00:38:42 Some men as you know just lose reason

00:38:47 With a pretty face, right? I mean you've probably experienced that countless times over the course of your life and

00:38:52 I use someone who is

00:38:58 Heavily swayed by physical looks

00:39:01 I could be yes

00:39:05 You mean in the future in another life in another dimension if you were a lizard, what does that mean?

00:39:13 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I think back when I was younger. Yeah, I was probably more that way like, oh, he's cute

00:39:20 Yeah, he's good-looking. I mean, I think maybe most girls are like that. Yeah, I think

00:39:25 With maturity, you know when maturity you start to realize you need to look for you know other things

00:39:32 Well, but you haven't been on the market for well over three decades. So I don't know what this means now, right?

00:39:39 Okay, so let me ask you this just talking about the three guys right first boyfriend first husband current husband

00:39:47 When you met them, how would you rate their looks one to ten?

00:39:55 I met them. I guess I thought they were all pretty, you know close to 10

00:39:59 And I mean there was some personality that you like you find attractive to so yeah

00:40:05 I mean not just the looks but the personality the person out of a side dish here

00:40:09 The meat was fantastic. Yeah, the potatoes were good, too

00:40:13 Okay, so why

00:40:18 What was the primary driver for choosing these men right?

00:40:21 There's gotta usually got if you chosen these three men there's to be something in common, right?

00:40:25 What's the primary driver for choosing these three men? I?

00:40:28 Guess they're

00:40:33 They're out going personality. They gave me attention

00:40:36 They thought I was you know fun to be around

00:40:41 Yeah, I guess

00:40:50 What is what is 10% of 10% of 10%

00:40:56 10% so 10% of 10% is 1% right?

00:41:04 Yeah, and 10% of 1% is 0.1% right? It's one in a thousand

00:41:09 So the odds of you marrying three tens or one in a thousand

00:41:12 That's not I wouldn't put any money on that right

00:41:18 Right. So the looks had to be significantly important

00:41:21 The looks I get I mean

00:41:26 well, I mean, I guess if I wasn't going to be physically attracted somebody then

00:41:32 Yeah, I mean it definitely had to be the looks. Um, yes and

00:41:36 Well, you know you're you're still a Christian. Is that right?

00:41:40 Yeah, okay

00:41:43 What does the what does God Jesus in the Bible say

00:41:48 about

00:41:50 Getting together with someone based on looks

00:41:54 Well, probably that's not the primary reason why you should

00:42:04 Yeah, it's it's it's it's a combination of two kind of sins right

00:42:11 One is a sin of vanity. We look good together, right?

00:42:16 I think about two tens walking down the street going into a bar sitting. I mean, there's a certain amount of envy there, right?

00:42:22 Right. So one is sort of vanity and and one is pride

00:42:26 and

00:42:28 the other is just a kind of shallowness right that that

00:42:31 Looks fade that the soul is more important than the body and that spiritual beauty is

00:42:37 Unrelated to physical beauty. In fact, it sometimes can be the inverse right the less attractive the body

00:42:44 Right. This is sort of old joke about overweight women being funny, right?

00:42:48 Because you have to find something to compensate or whatever right? So a lot of times qualities of character are inversely proportional to

00:42:53 physical looks particularly

00:42:56 When when you're younger, right?

00:42:58 I mean if somebody is it there's an old joke as well on the internet about you know

00:43:02 How I became a millionaire at age 25 one. I got up at 4 in the morning - I went to the gym every day

00:43:08 three I

00:43:10 inherited a million dollars

00:43:13 Wow, right and so we respect an entrepreneur who comes from nothing more than we respect an entrepreneur whose daddy gave him the company or

00:43:21 Whatever gave him the money and so on so

00:43:24 People who are born very physically attractive

00:43:28 They have a lot of stuff handed to them kind of on a platter, right?

00:43:32 mm-hmm, and I

00:43:35 Mean I got tons of dates when I was younger. It wasn't because I was the best boyfriend in the know universe

00:43:40 I'll tell you that right just because I was okay

00:43:42 handsome, right so

00:43:45 The Bible sort of warns against the flesh right that the flesh is

00:43:51 Right. The flesh is the devil's playground right the lusts the flesh that the body is

00:43:56 Not what you should be basing your love on right?

00:44:01 Correct. It should be love of virtue love of spiritual characteristics love of moral excellence love of piety love of

00:44:09 Humility to God and his commandments and again, I mean, this is nothing you've heard this a million times since you were a kid, right?

00:44:15 Yeah

00:44:17 And you know your your parents are or were good Christians

00:44:22 you raised a nice young Christian lady and

00:44:25 So looks had to be pretty significant if you married three hunkasauruses in a row or you dated and married three hunkasauruses in a row, right?

00:44:33 Yeah, right so

00:44:39 Let's talk about your first husband and all of this is with the aim of like I hadn't forgotten what we're actually here to talk

00:44:45 About I know it sounds like ancient archaeology and stuff, but it's trust me. It all has a

00:44:50 Purpose and a plan. I'm not just digging for no reason, right? So

00:44:54 Let's talk about your your your husband

00:44:58 What was it outside of his looks and his desire to get out of his crazy house and and all that?

00:45:06 What qualities of character did you find admirable about him?

00:45:10 He was he was a

00:45:14 Nice guy he was funny

00:45:16 He was kind. Sorry. Oh, you mean you felt like he was a nice guy before he cheated on

00:45:22 Yeah. Well, I mean we were married and

00:45:25 He didn't cheat on me until you know later on in the marriage. So it wasn't like he started off cheating

00:45:33 Well, no, but he wasn't a nice guy if it was on his list of things that he could do was cheat on you

00:45:37 Sure. Okay. Well, I

00:45:40 You're right. Okay, so you thought he was a nice guy, but you missed right that he wasn't right. What else? Yeah

00:45:45 I

00:45:47 Mean we had we had fun together

00:45:49 Yeah, I mean I I

00:45:59 Yeah, I don't know he was he was it's even nice and he was fun and we got along well together

00:46:05 Okay, none of those

00:46:09 No, don't I'm not trying to I'm not trying to make you feel bad Lord knows we all make these decisions when we're young

00:46:18 This is why we need these cat this kind of coaching against it, right?

00:46:22 But you're right having fun together is not a virtue

00:46:26 Agreed right and and being pretty is not a virtue and and all of that, right?

00:46:31 so I guess this sort of my question is that if

00:46:34 You chose and I mean your first boyfriend when you were 16

00:46:38 We can pretty much write off because he had another girlfriend pretty much at the same time and all of that kind of nonsense

00:46:43 Right and and your parents obviously saw all of that

00:46:45 so

00:46:48 Were there

00:46:52 virtues

00:46:54 Right, because what do you need most in a marriage you need?

00:46:57 Loyalty and a commitment to communication, right?

00:47:00 Right. Now you need a commitment to communication because sometimes in marriages there are times where you don't want to communicate

00:47:06 You're angry you're withdrawn you're upset you're frustrated and you just want to withdraw and right not

00:47:11 Be in the conversation and that's when you need the virtue called loyalty and a commitment to communication, right? So

00:47:20 So you communicate right and it seems to me but what's kind of lacking

00:47:24 In your relationships is this commitment to communication?

00:47:29 Yes, you're right on right

00:47:33 Yeah

00:47:35 well, and you're part of that because

00:47:37 Your your current husband was talking about being molested as a child and you avoided that communication, right?

00:47:43 Yeah

00:47:44 Yes, and again, I'm not sort of criticizing. I'm just sort of pointing out the sort of trends as

00:47:49 As as I see them

00:47:51 So the reason why you have to look for virtue

00:47:54 It's because without virtue you can't have trust because trust virtue is when you have consistently positive behavior and in order to have that

00:48:03 you have to have

00:48:04 Integrity and and if somebody has integrity and is consistently positive in their behavior, then you can you can trust that person, right?

00:48:11 Yeah, I mean if you've lent money to a friend ten times and that person has repaid you every single time

00:48:19 you don't fear on the eleventh time that

00:48:22 He's not gonna pay you back, right?

00:48:25 Yeah

00:48:27 Right. Okay

00:48:28 so

00:48:30 first husband

00:48:31 No particular commitments to virtue that I can see and again

00:48:35 This is actually good news, right because it tells you what's missing and then you can you can fix it, right?

00:48:39 I mean, it's funny, you know, I don't know if you've ever watched this show kitchen nightmares with Gordon Ramsay. I have yeah

00:48:45 yeah, okay, so you've seen these these restaurants right and they're all losing money and people are gonna lose their houses and

00:48:51 Life-size and it's all a disaster and then

00:48:54 People are desperate for Gordon Ramsay to like their food, right?

00:48:59 They're gonna serve their best food and and the food is always crap, right and people are really upset by that and I'm like

00:49:04 No, no, that's the best news you could get

00:49:07 Because if your food is excellent and your restaurant is failing

00:49:12 well, that's gonna be easy to fix right if the food is crap restaurant is failing then

00:49:16 Then fix the food. That's you know, it's really good news. If the if the food is bad

00:49:22 You know if

00:49:26 I think you get it right time to do another example. So yeah, so if there's something missing then we can we can fix it

00:49:36 We can solve it right, but if everything's perfect, then we can't right?

00:49:39 Yeah, so like if you're losing weight for no reason you're probably ill, right? So

00:49:44 Like if you're losing great, okay, you know, I went in and I had my you know post 50s

00:49:49 Lovely experience with the colonoscopy, right? And yeah, they said are you losing weight?

00:49:55 For no reason and I said no, I'm not losing weight for no reason. That's a good thing, right?

00:49:59 If you in and now if I said, oh, yes, I'm on a strict diet and then it's okay

00:50:02 Well, you're losing weight because you're on a diet, right? But if you're losing weight for no reason

00:50:05 That's that's bad. If there's a reason that's good. If there's no reason that's a disaster, right?

00:50:10 so

00:50:13 So that's sort of what we're not

00:50:15 We're not trying to yeah, I'm not trying to make you feel bad. I'm trying to say okay

00:50:18 Well, look if this if there's something that's a sort of consistent pattern, that's a problem. We can solve it

00:50:23 That's that's good news in my in my opinion, right? So yeah. Okay. So let's talk about

00:50:29 your current husband

00:50:32 okay, and

00:50:35 What drew you to him

00:50:38 Especially over the chaos of this divorce from your first husband. Mm-hmm

00:50:43 At least we started talking he was a very kind considerate nice person I

00:50:52 Enjoyed you know hanging out with him. He gave me a lot of attention

00:50:57 He I we had some mutual

00:51:03 Friends and I asked those people, you know, they said oh, yeah, he's a good guy. He's a good guy. And so

00:51:10 Yeah, so we just started spending a lot of time together and fell in love

00:51:16 Okay, and and what did you fall in love with that turned out to be true

00:51:23 Yeah, well, I mean he's still he is he is a good person I mean he's a he's a not kind person he cares

00:51:31 So

00:51:33 I guess I mean I did all in love with him

00:51:38 Just there was just other things I guess that came with it that I didn't realize

00:51:45 Okay, so tell me what you mean by he's kind and he cares I'm not disagreeing with you I just you know

00:51:52 I want to make those are pretty open-ended words. Yeah. I mean he's been a good father to his children. He's good dad

00:52:01 He he

00:52:03 In his work he he deals with people and he's you know, he's good to good to people people, you know, he

00:52:11 Yeah, he

00:52:15 Does stuff for people at our church?

00:52:18 You know, he's always he always says, you know, I'll always you know always want to help help people

00:52:24 I have a friend that he is always

00:52:27 You're happy to come help if she needs something so, you know, he's kind-hearted I guess

00:52:34 Okay, no, that's

00:52:41 If there's more I'm obviously happy to hear. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean

00:52:45 Yeah, let's just go ahead. Go ahead

00:52:48 Does he view what's his view of his his own pornography use

00:52:55 I

00:52:57 Think there was and he's

00:53:00 He's not using it

00:53:03 Well to my knowledge

00:53:06 He's not using pornography now. He was when I discovered it

00:53:11 we were in

00:53:14 we had started counseling because I

00:53:18 Knew there was something not right with our our sex life because he was having erectile dysfunction and

00:53:25 and I that's this was like back in like 10 12 not 12 years ago and

00:53:33 I kept asking him like something's wrong and you know, what's going on with you? And I said maybe we need to go

00:53:40 you need to see a counselor and see what it you know, what what what can be done and

00:53:47 when we started going to the counselor I happened to

00:53:49 Look at our look at his history on the computer and I don't remember why except maybe I guess I was trying to figure out

00:53:58 What was going on and discovered a lot of pornography in the history?

00:54:02 and there had also been

00:54:05 when the kids when my children were younger a

00:54:09 couple of times when

00:54:13 My my son and his his friend were on the computer and some pornography had popped up and I realized

00:54:19 we I was like, oh this should not be on here and

00:54:23 when confronted

00:54:25 he

00:54:27 He lied about it and said that he had been looking at some

00:54:30 The bought like the art that you see on people when they paint, you know on their body

00:54:34 and he said I was looking at that and I somehow ended up in pornography and

00:54:38 I I

00:54:40 bought that as an excuse so I

00:54:44 Guess as I speak I'm realizing that a lot of his pornography you see he really denied at first

00:54:51 And tried not to try not to acknowledge it

00:54:54 But when I found it, you know, it was right there on the computer. He couldn't really he couldn't really deny it. So

00:55:01 Yeah, well, I mean, yeah, he's still good he tried to actually say maybe it was our son or something but

00:55:10 And he's sorry

00:55:12 He he tried to say maybe it was our son that was looking at it, but I knew that wasn't true

00:55:18 Oh, yeah, he tried to pawn it off. He blamed his son

00:55:20 This is the sorry. This is the kind person you're telling me about

00:55:25 I'm trying to sort of follow this this moral path, but it's getting a little thorny and dark

00:55:29 Yeah, yeah he did actually do that and so that I mean that's been that has been some years back and

00:55:39 So

00:55:41 I don't I mean, I don't know. I don't think he's looking at it anymore

00:55:47 But I mean, I guess what do I know? I could he could be and I'm just ignorant of it. So

00:55:51 Right, I mean and as far as I understand it I did an interview with the guy about this years ago

00:55:58 Erectile dysfunction is one of the symptoms of pornography addiction

00:56:03 As and of course addiction generally involves lying and blaming and manipulating and all of that, right?

00:56:08 Right. Yeah, and that's there's a lot of that. Yeah, and

00:56:13 What happened over the course of your and of course the other thing too is that erectile dysfunction can be the sign of you know

00:56:21 Some fairly serious medical issues, right? And so by not fessing up he was

00:56:30 He was also I assume alarming you and maybe even your doctor about potential health issues

00:56:35 Possibly yeah, I mean, I guess I didn't really connect it as a health issue at that time. But yeah

00:56:41 Okay. So what happened over the course of the couples counseling?

00:56:47 Well once the pornography was discovered

00:56:56 She the lady we were meeting with suggested that maybe he see a male counselor

00:57:01 And I'm sorry, but did he confess at some point about this?

00:57:07 He finally I mean he had to own it so yeah, I mean he did finally admit that he was looking at it

00:57:14 Yes, okay. Got it

00:57:16 So he ended up going sorry go ahead. Yeah, so he ended up going to a male counselor

00:57:25 For about a year

00:57:27 Maybe yeah, probably right around a year and I don't I really don't know that they got a lot

00:57:35 Accomplished, you know, or I don't know. I don't know how forthcoming he was or how much he really wanted to own

00:57:43 What he was doing, you know, and then he tried to say oh I'm all okay now and we can move on so

00:57:51 But did your sex life as you sorry to be so blunt, but yeah. Yeah. No, no, I understand. Yeah

00:57:56 It did. I mean it did resume

00:57:59 But it was always yeah, he still had a rectal dysfunction and he would get

00:58:05 He would get different

00:58:08 Medications to help him with that. I mean and then after that I did discover a few years later like he was

00:58:19 Trying to get attention from different old old friends girls on Facebook and he was messaging messaging

00:58:26 Them and talking to them a little bit

00:58:29 Reconnecting with from his past that he had known and that like reconnecting on Facebook like hey chat and

00:58:48 Yeah, I'm trying to remember else what one girl he was chatting with and then another girl he had I think maybe been his old

00:58:54 girlfriend is what it was and

00:58:56 so he I

00:58:58 ran across some messages of some conversations on

00:59:02 Facebook chat of him talking to her and then even discussing maybe she was coming to town and

00:59:08 Maybe he would meet up with her and see her but I confronted him about that and then he he stopped talking to her

00:59:17 Was it more than one ex or more than one woman?

00:59:20 It was another I did discover another

00:59:23 Girl, also, but it was like a late-night phone call or something and I confronted him about that

00:59:30 And he just said yeah, he had talked to her real late one night

00:59:32 But I don't I mean, I don't think she even lived in town and the messages that he was explained

00:59:38 Exchanging with his ex were they flirtatious in nature or more just factual or catch-up or what?

00:59:44 There was there was yeah, they were flirtatious in nature. Yes, and how long ago was this?

00:59:49 This has been we think back around

00:59:54 2012

00:59:58 13 somewhere in there, I think and

01:00:00 Then things sort of dried up you said about eight years ago

01:00:05 Yeah, probably around 2015 yeah, it was just it got to be

01:00:11 to where

01:00:13 The sex was just always he either couldn't he could never have you know

01:00:20 Complete an orgasm and or he couldn't even hold an erection or he would have to have

01:00:26 masturbation happen

01:00:28 During the sex he would have to masturbate himself

01:00:31 Okay in order to achieve our climax

01:00:35 Not super ideal a comp of entry towards you. I know

01:00:40 No, and it you know, or if he if he tried, you know

01:00:44 it would got it would become painful because it was like trying and trying and nothing was happening, so I

01:00:50 Yeah, yeah

01:00:54 And nothing would happen and finally I just reached a point where I was thinking I I can't I don't want to do this anymore

01:01:02 I don't this is not fun. This is not anything. I'm enjoying and I I don't want to do it anymore

01:01:09 and so

01:01:11 Yeah, so we just stopped being intimate and

01:01:14 Was did it sort of die out or did you have a conversation about it?

01:01:18 you know, it just kind of died out and he didn't bring it up and

01:01:23 And I just you know didn't initiate anything. And so yeah, I just kind of died out can't get it up wouldn't bring it up

01:01:30 so as far as the communication avoidance goes right that would be

01:01:37 kind of a thing here right that that, you know, it's not a central defining characteristic of

01:01:41 Marriage as sort of mentioned before is sexual activity, right and and you kind of know that because

01:01:47 it's not I mean the primary defining characteristic of

01:01:51 Marriage is not financial because you can have financial relationships with other people

01:01:57 It's not friendship because you can have friendships with other people

01:02:00 It's sexual because you can't have sexual relations with other people. That's what monogamy means, right?

01:02:05 Doesn't mean you can't have friends. You can't have business partners. You can't have acquaintances

01:02:09 You can't have whatever people you can find in although not outside your marriage. It's not particularly good idea

01:02:14 But isn't it fair to say that the primary defining characteristic of monogamy is sexual activity?

01:02:19 Yes

01:02:22 right and

01:02:24 That's sort of why I say, you know

01:02:25 It's it's a marriage at law and you live together and so on but it's not a marriage in the way that I would understand

01:02:31 The term and and I think the definition of all of that is is sort of important. So

01:02:36 Okay, so it kind of dies out

01:02:39 Yeah, so then I

01:02:45 Guess back in 20. I would say like around 22

01:02:50 22 and back in February. He's I'm sorry 22 is

01:02:55 2020

01:02:57 Crap, okay

01:02:59 He

01:03:01 On Valentine's

01:03:04 he gave me a

01:03:06 letter he wrote a letter and was just basically saying that he would like to

01:03:10 you know be intimate again and can we talk about it and

01:03:15 I

01:03:18 So I didn't I we talked about it some and I said, you know, I am at this point

01:03:25 For me that I am NOT interested in that anymore because it's been so long and I don't I don't

01:03:31 That's not where I want. I don't feel that way in our relationship anymore and

01:03:36 I said, you know, I understand if

01:03:39 if that if you don't want this and if we need to separate and

01:03:45 Divorce, I mean I I understand if that's what you want to do

01:03:49 So you rather divorce him and I'm not I'm not criticizing. I just really want to make sure I understand this

01:03:55 You'd rather divorce him than try having sex with him again

01:03:57 Again I know that sounds like a criticism. I don't mean it. I'm just trying to understand the decision here. Yeah, I just

01:04:07 Get the beast with two backs, I'm just at a point

01:04:12 You're right. Yeah, I mean it is it didn't it was just

01:04:16 Yeah, I felt like I was always trying to

01:04:20 Please him and do stuff for him and it just I don't

01:04:24 It just doesn't make I don't want to do it again, you know with him. Well, it's

01:04:29 it's

01:04:31 Again, I I'm I'm no woman but as far as I could understand it a failure for the man to

01:04:38 get erection and and to achieve climax is I

01:04:42 would imagine that women would experience that as

01:04:45 a

01:04:47 Significant rejection a significant. You don't find me attractive. You don't find me sexy and

01:04:51 It's it's it's it's a hugely serious rejection

01:04:56 It's painful right not just physically obviously if you can't complete but I mean emotionally right? Yes

01:05:04 And I you know, I mean I felt like I kept working

01:05:12 Working at it and you know doing you're trying to do things that you know

01:05:16 But make him happy and I just I just kind of felt like I'm done. No, I'm tired. I'm tired of

01:05:24 battling this all the time

01:05:26 Well, I mean you also I mean you put couples counseling into it

01:05:30 He put a year's worth of therapy into it and it didn't seem to improve right?

01:05:34 Right, right. I mean so I'm kind of then I

01:05:39 mean if he if he's if he stopped looking at pornography and he's done a year's a year's worth of therapy and all of that and

01:05:46 You can't figure out a way to make this enjoyable for I guess either of you. I

01:05:51 Mean I can I can understand being out of options like what else can I do?

01:05:56 Do I like I don't know hire a dolphin and put in a bikini somewhere I mean like what do you do? Yeah. Yeah

01:06:08 Okay, so you basically said if I understand this correctly I'm we're not going to restart this and

01:06:14 If if you want to divorce me that's that's fine or not fine, but that's acceptable and how did we go from there?

01:06:22 He says he does not want a divorce

01:06:26 You know, he wants us to stay together

01:06:29 So I don't know if he that back at that time. Well, we we did

01:06:35 I said we I will do some another counseling session with you different counselor than before somebody we both had been to

01:06:42 and

01:06:45 So we met with her I met with her first by myself and then we met with her together and it was kind of the

01:06:53 Same scenario. She said, you know y'all can if y'all need to to

01:06:57 You know divorce then, you know, you can do this and still be you know friends with each other

01:07:02 you can still you know, you didn't have to be an ugly divorce and

01:07:05 And I'm sorry, you don't have to give me their ages in particular, but are your kids out of the house?

01:07:11 Are they still around or yeah, that they're grown. They're both. Okay, okay

01:07:16 And so, you know we talked to her and he was like I don't I don't want a divorce

01:07:23 I don't want I don't want I don't want that and

01:07:27 Sorry, I'm not saying he should or shouldn't want a divorce, but I'm obviously curious as to

01:07:31 What what's his reasoning behind not wanting a divorce? Why doesn't he want a divorce?

01:07:35 Because he loves me very deeply. He said I love you. I love you very much. I love and so he I mean

01:07:42 You know, he he's I I don't want I want you so you're my person. I want you and I don't want anybody else

01:07:53 I'm I'm sort of having trouble and it I'm sure it's just my deficiency. So hopefully you can be patient but

01:08:00 Okay, do you know if he told the first therapist that he saw for a year?

01:08:05 Did he tell that therapist about his sexual abuse? I?

01:08:07 Do not know if I don't know what they talked about for a year

01:08:14 I that was that was the idea that is that he would meet with him and I think he did

01:08:18 He said he did talk to him some about it, but I don't know how it was more

01:08:22 I

01:08:24 Think it might have been more focused on the pornography and just like behavior modification for not, you know

01:08:30 Sorry, I assume that the root of the addiction would have something to do with the my station experiences, right?

01:08:38 Yeah, I mean, I don't know for sure but I think that's that was the plan. That was what he was supposed to do

01:08:44 so I

01:08:46 mean

01:08:47 It was desperately important for you to know what was going on with his therapy, wasn't it?

01:08:51 I

01:08:53 Mean yeah, so why why wouldn't he tell you?

01:09:00 Um, I

01:09:05 Guess I

01:09:08 well, I

01:09:09 Mean, what's he actually go with he didn't have to yeah, he was going. How do you know? I don't know. Yeah

01:09:14 Well, we paid for it

01:09:18 So, yeah, so he went but I mean this is kind of like I mean just sort of take an extreme example if your spouse is

01:09:25 You know, they suspect that they have cancer or the doctor suspects. He has cancer and they run a test

01:09:30 They take a biopsy. They do an analysis. They run a test

01:09:33 I mean, it's pretty important to share the results with your spouse, isn't it?

01:09:38 Yeah

01:09:41 Diagnosing a massive dysfunction at the core of your marriage and trying to fix it and he's not telling you anything about the cure

01:09:48 Yeah, no, I mean it's like he's going through chemo and you know, how's it going? Oh fine

01:09:53 Yeah

01:09:56 You're gonna die are you gonna get better we'll see

01:09:59 Like I'm did that with the whole thing of this information

01:10:03 Compared to the deep and abiding love. I'm just I'm having trouble getting that square into the circle if that makes sense

01:10:11 We're done. Yeah

01:10:16 Yeah, it does make sense

01:10:18 So, I mean we can't we can't really theorize about him because he's not here though

01:10:31 Of course, I'd be fine to talk with him if he wants to but I'm just trying to sort of puzzle puzzle this one out

01:10:36 Yeah

01:10:39 So I guess I should I don't I guess I feel like whenever I would ask questions

01:10:44 I didn't get a whole lot of information. So

01:10:47 When even when like

01:10:52 Things you know what things would happen and I could see like he would you know, he would have depression and I would say

01:11:01 You know what let's sit down let's tell me what's going on and he would be like well, I don't know he wouldn't ever

01:11:08 Give me a lot of information. He's I'm just struggling with some stuff or I don't want to talk about it

01:11:14 and

01:11:15 So even the other day

01:11:17 We've had we've had a we've had a blow-up previously and again another talk about whether we should stay together and

01:11:25 So and he said well I could give you that whole thing if you want to know it but basically

01:11:34 he

01:11:36 In my house, there's a there's a window that you can see into the bathroom and I

01:11:44 Discovered that he had fixed the window to where he could peek in and look look at me when I was unaware

01:11:51 You know undressed and I when I discovered that I was very upset and it just yeah, I felt

01:11:58 Very uncomfortable by the whole thing. So I had a confrontation and I said, hey, I know you're not happy and

01:12:04 You know, I think maybe we should just consider separating. I'm not saying we have to divorce but

01:12:12 Would you like to you know, one of us move out either you can move out?

01:12:16 We'll give you an apartment and just kind of take things from there because I said obviously you're still not happy

01:12:21 You're not happy with the way things are after we I've told you clearly

01:12:25 you know how how I feel and

01:12:28 And I was very he said well, I just don't understand why

01:12:33 Why you don't you know want to try having sex? I think you need to try to go to

01:12:40 Trauma therapy that you maybe you need the traumatic therapy to get you over it so that you'll feel like having sex again

01:12:46 and I and I laid it out as to how

01:12:49 Distasteful and how much I didn't enjoy sex with him. I was probably the most

01:12:54 Blunt I have ever been about it wasn't fun. You know, I you made me feel bad

01:13:00 It was uncomfortable and then you all you could do is masturbate me

01:13:03 I laid it all out to him and I said, you know

01:13:08 So if we need if we this is where I am

01:13:10 This is what's how I feel and this is how it's going to be and but he still was very emotional

01:13:15 crying and saying

01:13:18 No, I don't I don't I don't want us to divorce. I love you. I love you. You're you know, you're I want you here

01:13:25 So we had that long conversation and then

01:13:29 the next

01:13:32 Day, he came home from work and I could tell like he was still

01:13:37 edgy and still

01:13:39 You know, it seemed like he'd been better than the day before but then he came on the next day and I said so

01:13:47 You seem upset, you know what's going on? And oh, I don't want to talk about it. And I said well

01:13:52 Okay, and so we ate dinner and then a few minutes later. I was like, are you feeling a little better now?

01:13:57 Do you want to tell me what was going on? He goes? I just I don't want to talk about it

01:14:01 I just I want to talk about it yet. And

01:14:04 So trying to get him to give me information

01:14:07 Is he doesn't ever want to give information

01:14:11 Right, I

01:14:15 Just want to understand the window thing

01:14:17 So this was a was he watching you showering or on the toilet or what was the idea behind that?

01:14:22 No, he could see in like it's a big closet bathroom thing and so the there's blinds

01:14:31 There that for privacy because it opens up into a common room. It's a it's a at it was a anyway

01:14:38 it opens up into a common room, so there's a

01:14:40 blinds that are for privacy and

01:14:43 But and I if you turn the blinds a certain up or down if you turn them

01:14:49 Down you can sort of see into the bathroom and I always make sure the blinds are turned and they're up

01:14:57 For the for the privacy because I mean other people could walk into that room too. So it's for privacy, but

01:15:02 Apparently he had gone in there and I don't know when but had turned the blinds

01:15:08 Down so that if he walked in he could kind of look into the bathroom and see me if I happen to be walking around

01:15:16 undressed oh

01:15:18 So it wasn't just a bathroom like a toilet. That was like a bathroom. No bath in a shower

01:15:22 Right. It's a big closet. Yeah, because it has a bathroom - yes

01:15:26 It would that's kind of that's a compliment that he finds you

01:15:30 Attractive. I mean, I know it's a bit of a reach but I mean, I guess yeah the most positive feedback you've had in years

01:15:36 I'm not saying it's ideal. But you know, I just feel like it was an invasion of privacy

01:15:42 Like it was like you were trying to sneak and do this when I didn't what's one unaware?

01:15:48 No, no. No, I look I get it. I am just so it's just making a joke

01:15:52 It's not I mean the peeping Tom stuff is not exactly a no

01:15:56 It's not good, sorry if that landed wrong, but okay, so

01:16:00 When you talk about his depression and this the first time you mentioned sort of the blow-up thing because you haven't mentioned it before

01:16:07 So tell me a little bit about like, how do you know if he's depressed?

01:16:11 Well, I assume it's not like you can't get out of bed stuff

01:16:13 No, but I it's just the whole demeanor is different and he's not talking much

01:16:23 He'll just sit in front of the television

01:16:26 And not talk to me much. So yeah, that's just kind of I can just you can tell the way he's acting that he's

01:16:32 Overgoing on another

01:16:35 You know, he'll he'll be up for a while and then he'll go on another down tick of depression

01:16:39 But he still can do his job. Yeah, okay, and

01:16:44 How often do you feel that you connect in terms of a good conversation

01:16:52 I

01:16:54 Guess it would mean it depend on what you mean by a good conversation like we will get home from work and

01:17:05 I cook dinner and we'll sit and we'll chat about our day

01:17:09 You know talk about what might have happened at work. So we sit and talk and talk about family stuff and

01:17:19 So, yeah, I mean I get we do that pretty much day like an information exchange, right but

01:17:24 In terms of like a conversation a marital conversation is one you can only have with your spouse

01:17:30 Like you I don't know you said okay, so when was the last time I

01:17:38 Guess I'm sorry. I guess a couple of weeks ago when we had that

01:17:47 Conversation about whether we were going to stay together was probably the last big conversation, I guess

01:17:52 Okay, when was the last time that you had an important conversation that was positive or engaging enjoyable

01:18:00 You mean besides just coming home and talking

01:18:05 Conversation that you can only have with your spouse that was positively engaging and enjoyable

01:18:11 I

01:18:13 Don't know I'm kind of that that idea is not coming to me immediately

01:18:25 Hmm I mean talking about our granddaughter, you know talking about

01:18:31 Family stuff like that. Yeah, you can talk about that with anybody. I'm not saying right but that's not specific to your spouse, right?

01:18:40 Right, yeah, maybe there hasn't been one

01:18:44 Do you mean I mean over the course of the marriage or or that you can remember recently that I can remember recently

01:18:53 So what's one in the distant past or medium to distant past that you can recall?

01:18:58 Oh

01:19:00 Man I

01:19:14 Um, I don't know I'm not really

01:19:17 Nothing's coming to me

01:19:22 I

01:19:24 Mean you can do it. I mean, would you say it's it's a fair characterization

01:19:28 To say that you and I are having a fairly meaningful conversation at the moment

01:19:33 Yeah, and and how do you feel about talking in this kind of depth or in this kind of way?

01:19:41 How do I feel about it

01:19:44 I mean, I've been really stressed about the whole idea that I was going to talk to you

01:19:49 But now that well, I am terrifying. So there is

01:19:54 It wasn't you it was me I know no every morning I wake up I look in the mirror like oh my god

01:19:59 I have to be me for the whole day. I'm stressed. No, I get it. No, I get it

01:20:02 It's a tough conversation, but over the course of the conversation how you feel

01:20:06 Yeah, I'm better now. Yeah

01:20:09 Yeah, so I'm feeling better. You're maybe making me think about a lot of things. So that's good, right?

01:20:16 Okay, so so you can do these conversations

01:20:19 I mean you're you Frank about things that you know, sometimes could be difficult to talk about and so on

01:20:24 right and

01:20:27 You can do this kind of stuff. So

01:20:29 Do you think if your husband was on?

01:20:31 The call or if it was just me and your husband talking, how do you think it would go?

01:20:37 He ten he I mean, I think he would I

01:20:46 Don't know how he would talk but sometimes he starts just kind of getting off task and

01:20:52 I can draw him back on that. But how do you think it would go if I sort of plumb in the depths together?

01:21:00 So to speak, I mean it might go. Okay. I

01:21:04 Yeah, I mean, I guess it I guess he would talk to you

01:21:08 So you can both do it right right I just can't do it with each other

01:21:15 Um

01:21:16 Yeah, we struggle with that for sure

01:21:18 Well, if you can't really remember the last time you had a positive engaging deep and meaningful conversation. It's more than a struggle, isn't it?

01:21:25 Yeah. Well, I mean, I guess you know, he gets real caught up in

01:21:29 Politics and all this stuff that's happening in current events and he can be very negative about it. And so

01:21:35 you know, I mean if we try if we try to have a

01:21:38 Conversation I finally just go. Okay. Never mind. I don't want to talk about it

01:21:45 anymore because it's just gets to

01:21:47 To emotionally driven I guess. Oh

01:21:50 Like he can't you can't make him feel better

01:21:54 Right. Yeah, you can't deescalate his political doom and gloom. Yeah

01:21:59 One of the I mean one of the massive advantages of course of being married is that the other person can help talk you out

01:22:09 of your crazy tree and you know help you

01:22:12 Put things in perspective or you know tell you remind you of the things you can change and the things you can't change and help

01:22:18 You distinguish between the two and you know

01:22:20 Yeah, we all go crazy on our own ways in our relationships

01:22:24 We have a chance of sanity but on her own if you sort of locked up in your own head

01:22:28 You know, we all drift kind of towards nuttiness

01:22:31 Mm-hmm, right. Yeah, and he definitely can drift toward nuttiness without you know, just letting things get him so upset

01:22:39 you know rattled about what's happening and you know, how ridiculous things are and they just

01:22:44 Finally go. Well, I don't even want to talk about it because you don't not that you know

01:22:48 we have we don't we have similar ideas, but sometimes he's just over the top with it or he gets into such a

01:22:54 Conspiracy theory that's like come on, you know, let's think about this

01:22:58 Well, if if the conversation is let me spend three hours convincing you to be as depressed and anxious as I am. Well, yeah

01:23:06 That's not well

01:23:08 Particularly enticing is it right right now? No, cuz I'm like, you know, it's it's it's terrible

01:23:13 But it doesn't affect my life that much, you know, and you can't I mean, what could you do about it? Right? Exactly exactly

01:23:20 Yeah

01:23:21 So, I mean you can keep your eye on it and you can hopefully stay somewhat mobile and nimble if you have to move or whatever

01:23:28 Right, but you know, I mean

01:23:29 You can't you can't fix it right can't solve it. Right? Right. So right. All right. All right

01:23:36 And what is your was there something in particular? Was it this blow up?

01:23:40 What was it in particular that that had you write me the initial email?

01:23:45 yeah, yeah, it was and

01:23:48 My son is a he's the one that introduced you to me

01:23:57 and

01:23:59 He he really thought that you would he's like mom. I listen to him all the time

01:24:04 He he can help people figure things out and I feel like he would be helpful in helping you

01:24:09 because I

01:24:11 had

01:24:12 Talked to him after our blow up and and he said well, it sounds like y'all are determined to stay together

01:24:19 but he said I maybe maybe he can give you some advice or some insight as to you know, something that would be helpful, so

01:24:27 For you to end up talking to me boy

01:24:33 Hey, this is Randall on the internet you should talk to

01:24:36 Listened I'd heard I'd he sends me calls and I'd listened to you and I'm like, oh, yeah this guy

01:24:45 I mean you really you really know how to get people to think about things and might be something rolling around in that speckle

01:24:51 Headed noggin

01:24:53 This would not be something I would have done on my own for sure

01:24:59 But I love my son dearly and he's a good man and I feel like you've had a positive

01:25:03 Influence on him because he really listens to how you deal with people and so yeah

01:25:09 Until this call which he's gonna faint

01:25:12 Okay, so what what is your ideal what what would be the best outcome

01:25:29 I mean not just if this call like but in terms of your life as a whole

01:25:32 You know, I just want to you know, I I like, you know, my family being able to get together

01:25:39 I like I love my husband. I do I love him

01:25:43 I I

01:25:45 Ideally if we could just live peacefully together

01:25:49 you know, and I

01:25:53 Not no big change had to happen. I don't I don't want a divorce

01:25:57 I don't divorce doesn't always solve things and I you know, I don't know that this would just solve our problems either

01:26:03 So just to be to be peaceful and to become home and to be able to enjoy

01:26:09 Him

01:26:11 You want him to be a woman

01:26:21 Respect like okay. Look look, let's be real now you as a woman have this

01:26:28 To men incomprehensible capacity to turn off your sex drive. Is that is that fair to say?

01:26:33 Yeah

01:26:35 Like a woman who doesn't have sex for a long time turns like into a car that's been left in a field for 30 years

01:26:42 Right. I mean, it's like doesn't start anymore. I mean, I don't mean to be overly glib, but

01:26:47 There's a switch that women have that men really don't have is that fair to say?

01:26:52 Yeah. Yeah, I mean it's again. I don't want to tell you your life

01:26:57 So if I'm incorrect about any of this, you know, tell me and we'll we'll change course

01:27:01 But you don't miss

01:27:04 Too much if I understand this rightly not having a sex life. I

01:27:08 Don't because I did enjoy I mean there was a point in my life

01:27:14 I enjoyed it, but I don't miss it because it was not

01:27:18 Enjoyable and you don't miss something that you didn't enjoy

01:27:22 Right, I get that

01:27:25 To a man that's somewhat incomprehensible

01:27:27 I mean and again, I don't want to speak for your husband, but you know

01:27:31 testosterone is a significant driver of

01:27:34 Sexual energy and men have what I don't know 17 times the amount of testosterone that that women have and so on right so

01:27:43 It's not too shocking to me that you're okay with the way things are and

01:27:47 Your husband is not right, right? It doesn't help that he thinks he needs to get hormone pellets. So yeah

01:27:54 He gets the hormone pellet in pellets that you get because he felt like he needed more

01:28:03 Testosterone because he wanted to build muscle, you know, so he gets always he's taking testosterone supplements

01:28:11 And he's working out

01:28:13 Well, he doesn't really work

01:28:15 He's supposed to wait. How's he expecting to build muscle? What is he doing? That's an excellent question

01:28:20 Yeah, now that you know, he pretends, you know, he'll go work out once every couple of weeks and go I worked out

01:28:25 So yeah, that's you do it. Okay, so I mean

01:28:29 Lord above help you if he's on t-testosterone supplements and he works out then you're just you're doomed

01:28:34 You have to be if you have to get a bodyguard

01:28:36 Okay, so are you guys in your

01:28:43 50s 60s

01:28:45 Unfortunately, I just turned the big six. Oh, yeah, I have to say this six. Oh, no, don't ever say unfortunately ever

01:28:52 It you know aging sucks, but it infinitely beats the alternative, right?

01:28:58 So

01:29:01 It's better to have problems than no problems if you know what I mean

01:29:05 So yeah, okay

01:29:07 So so you if somebody said to you I know this sounds like an odd thing if somebody said to you

01:29:13 That's it. You're never having sex again till you today you you die you'd be like, yeah

01:29:17 But as long as things are relatively peaceful and I'm content, that's okay, right?

01:29:21 Yeah, I mean

01:29:24 You can always yeah, yeah, I get it. I get it. Sorry. I'm just hearing the sound of your son

01:29:30 I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. No, forget it. Forget it. Don't worry. Don't forget him just for now

01:29:35 We're talking about you edit that part out. You have focused so much on your family. We got to focus on you, right?

01:29:40 So that's fine. Yeah, so

01:29:42 So you would be okay without?

01:29:44 Sex with your husband till the day you die, right? Yeah, right and

01:29:49 Your husband is not okay. Now did this desire to resume sex did that arise, but did you call them pellets?

01:29:57 Horses, but

01:30:01 Well, you know it's you you slit a little spot in the hip and you insert these pill it pellets in this doctor

01:30:07 So that up and then you get them every you know, five six months. So yeah Wow. Oh like they'd like slow dissolve

01:30:13 Okay, okay

01:30:17 I'm not I had no idea. So your manhood into your hip I had no no clue about that

01:30:25 Yeah

01:30:28 Forgot what was your question? Do you know if he was he diagnosed low T or low testosterone or yeah, correct, correct

01:30:33 Okay, yeah. All right, and

01:30:36 Was it after these pellets that he approached you for sex? Um, it seems to be yeah what once they're first

01:30:44 Inserted. Yeah, it's more. Yeah, I think his drive is higher and then as the pellets absorb

01:30:50 I think then they kind of wait, you know goes back down again. So yeah, it seems like that is a pattern that I've noticed

01:30:57 oh and

01:30:59 again, I

01:31:01 hesitate to

01:31:02 Slip myself into your shoes so to speak, but it does seem less than hugely complementary if it's like the pellets

01:31:10 I'm drawing me to you, honey

01:31:12 If it's like just you know, my my my hormones are

01:31:17 Drawing me to you

01:31:20 Right. That's yeah, that's I

01:31:24 Mean, yeah, that's not a hugely intimacy love connection kind of thing, right? Right? That's true. Yeah

01:31:30 okay, so and so the reason I was sort of making a joke and saying like you want him to be like a woman is because

01:31:39 You can switch off you can bypass you can have a content life relatively

01:31:44 But especially if he's getting super extra manhood by these hip pellets

01:31:50 Wasn't a sentence. I thought I was gonna say today, but all right, we'll roll with it if he's becoming like super extra manly

01:31:56 because of these this TRT then

01:31:59 Then he's becoming more man and he's not going to

01:32:06 It's not likely that I mean he can't see there's no off switch, right?

01:32:09 So

01:32:17 The idea that

01:32:19 Sorry, so for the low testosterone was that like was it a health issue that he was concerned about is it?

01:32:24 Something else that like why did he take this this therapy?

01:32:27 Well according to what his prescription when I saw it it said for depression and anxiety

01:32:35 That was what the doctor wrote on the reason why I he should have the pellets and that he had low T

01:32:41 Right. Yeah, I think those two are associated if I if I understand my biology somewhat and has he

01:32:48 Become less depressed and anxious since he's been on this therapy. No. Oh

01:32:54 Is that because he's consuming Twitter?

01:32:58 Because if a if a man is if a man is faced with stress that he can't manage and

01:33:08 Political stuff can do that to you, right?

01:33:10 Where the man you're just constantly threatened with danger

01:33:13 Which you can't do anything about then you get depressed and anxious, right? This is one of the dangers of consuming politics, right?

01:33:20 Well, yeah, and you know, he has been

01:33:23 He's been buying guns

01:33:26 and he came well, he I discovered an AR 15 in the closet and

01:33:34 I didn't know he'd purchased this gun. And so that was another confrontation

01:33:38 We had at about a month ago because I was like, why why did you buy this and he said for protection?

01:33:44 I said well, are you taking up hunting because usually that's what people use an AR 15 for is hunting and

01:33:50 He didn't give me an answer there. He's like, no, I think we see the protection. Yeah, listen my friend my my fine lady. Oh

01:33:58 dear

01:34:01 He's a man

01:34:03 There are indications of social unrest. He's concerned, right? Yeah

01:34:08 Mark his manhood and his desire to keep his family safe at your significant peril. I just mean emotionally, right?

01:34:15 Well, and it's not like we don't have other guns

01:34:18 I get that I understand that yeah, but he's a man

01:34:23 Yeah, so he wants to feel very secure and safe in protecting his family

01:34:29 Okay

01:34:31 So look at one of the things that that kills the male-female dynamic in a marriage is the eye roll

01:34:38 And and and trust me my good friend

01:34:43 Men have as much reason to eye roll about women's stuff as women do about men's stuff

01:34:48 Yeah, I don't know why we need 400 throw pillows on the bed

01:34:53 Because they're pretty yeah, I don't know why we need coasters on a plastic table

01:35:01 I don't know why

01:35:04 There are soaps I can't use I

01:35:09 Don't know why a small nation needs this many towels let alone our house

01:35:14 It's delightfully incomprehensible

01:35:18 Okay, I don't know why things need to be cleaned again when they're already clean

01:35:25 I don't know why we need to rinse everything when we have a very good dishwasher. I don't know why

01:35:31 Hmm. Do I roll my eyes? I do not

01:35:34 Because I trust my wife she's a wonderful homemaker I don't understand it

01:35:42 But I assume she understands it and if it works for her it works for me

01:35:48 Okay, so for a woman to look at the things that she doesn't understand about the man

01:35:59 The big temptation is to roll the eyes, right?

01:36:01 Yeah

01:36:04 That's not a good idea. I mean unless he's spying on you in the bathroom in which case

01:36:09 Absolutely, that's a bad idea. You don't run that right?

01:36:13 but

01:36:15 Men and women we are delightfully incomprehensible to each other. Is that is that I mean, that's a fair way

01:36:20 You don't you don't know why he needs all these things

01:36:22 But if you roll your eyes, how does the man experience that?

01:36:29 Yeah, it's a negative yeah put down again what they what what a man feels is

01:36:36 That

01:36:40 You don't like that he's a man

01:36:43 That you would prefer he'd be a woman

01:36:49 Like

01:36:56 My wife makes the bed like she's going to be inspected by the editors of architectural digest

01:37:01 Like every female ancestor back to the

01:37:06 Single-celled organisms is gonna come and judge her

01:37:10 I mean, I've obviously been making a joke here, but I don't like I understand making the bed

01:37:15 You know how men make the bed if we make the bed, how do men make the bed if we make the bed?

01:37:20 Kind of throw the sheets up and toss the pillows on and it's vaguely horizontal

01:37:25 Yeah, it's vaguely one thing on top of the other right and and you know most men

01:37:32 What do we do we crawl under the covers and in the morning if we live alone?

01:37:35 We pull the covers we put the covers back and the next time we crawl back into that womb again

01:37:39 And we don't even think about it during the day, right?

01:37:42 right, I

01:37:44 Mean after I got married I learned there was such a thing as toothbrush holders. You ever heard of these

01:37:50 Yeah

01:37:52 They're incredible they literally hold your toothbrush up so that it doesn't touch the I

01:37:57 Don't know what is the thing called that's next to the sink the countertop the countertop I don't even know the names for these things

01:38:05 Yeah, I can tell you every single

01:38:08 Processor of every single computer I've ever owned but I don't know what that thing is that you put the toothbrush holder on is called, right?

01:38:15 I

01:38:17 Don't know why

01:38:20 There are also these other things called tea towels and if the question is can you ever have enough tea towels the answer apparently is no

01:38:26 Yeah

01:38:30 Well, apparently you just try a lot of stuff right

01:38:33 Also, also apparently it's really bad. You have you have multiple different fork sizes you aware of this, right?

01:38:41 Right now multiple different fork sizes apparently

01:38:46 You know those little cutlery dividers that you have in the drawers

01:38:50 Yes

01:38:52 Apparently it's important that they go into the correct one like each each size

01:38:56 Right, right, of course. I

01:38:59 Mean first your wife sounds like she's brilliant. She well see here's the thing. It's it's an incomprehensible

01:39:05 I do have a wonderful woman. It's an incomprehensible genius to me. I don't follow it. I don't understand it. I do it

01:39:11 I never roll my eyes

01:39:14 Why

01:39:16 Because my wife also has like this, you know, how men how do how do men test food in the fridge is it okay to eat

01:39:25 Yeah, if you're lucky

01:39:30 Yeah, if it's not specifically squirmy or furry or blinking we'll just eat it right that's what we do

01:39:39 We just eat it and you know, I'm a man. I'm robust. I'm a barrel of acid

01:39:44 It will destroy whatever is bad that's in there, right? I mean, it's just man

01:39:48 I mean, it wasn't it wasn't the women who tested which berries were poisonous. That was a dude thing, right?

01:39:52 but my wife has like this

01:39:56 Incomprehensible ability to know exactly what's the freshest and what's maybe not so fresh and when things need to be thrown out and all that

01:40:03 In the fridge, it's bizarre to me. I

01:40:05 Barely even know what's in the fridge, but she's got it down to a fine art a tea across

01:40:09 She's got a database going on in there. It's like incredible

01:40:12 Yeah, so I mean, you know, we could sort of do this kind of thing all day, but right? I don't know why I

01:40:19 Don't know why this dress is needed and this dress is not

01:40:24 Right, I don't know why she needs all these shoes, but she does and that's fine. I don't roll my eyes

01:40:32 It's not like because because why because I'm glad she's not a man because I'm not gay

01:40:37 So the fact that she does stuff that's incomprehensible to me is because she's a woman and I'm not

01:40:44 Okay, and so your husband is going to he's gonna get involved in politics why

01:40:50 Because that's what we do as men we scan for danger

01:40:55 Mm-hmm. I mean you see the male lions. What do they do? The female lions all playing with the cubs?

01:41:00 What are the male lions doing? They're patrolling the circumference

01:41:02 They're looking for danger. They're looking for food. They're looking for other lions or aggressive animals that could come and disrupt like

01:41:10 So the men we keep our eyes on the horizon

01:41:14 We keep our eyes on the borders and women keep their eyes generally on the kids and their home and the and it's great wonderful, right?

01:41:20 Yeah

01:41:23 So, you know the woman lion I'm sure if they could speak they'd say to the male lining what are you doing out there all day

01:41:29 Yeah, why do you why don't you just stay around it's like I can't

01:41:33 Because there's danger out there and as a man your instinct is to scan the horizon

01:41:39 This is a little bit behind the doom scrolling in Twitter or whatever, right?

01:41:41 right, you scan the horizon and

01:41:44 You look for danger and women are called roll the rise, right and

01:41:50 It's like, you know

01:41:52 Why women get to roll the rise because men have successfully scanned the horizon for danger and created a civilization where women are protected and then

01:41:59 Women are like why do you scan for danger?

01:42:01 It's like that's the whole reason you're protected the reason you can ask me why I scan for danger is that just successfully scanned for danger

01:42:06 So

01:42:11 Yeah, so so finding a way

01:42:14 To

01:42:17 Love and respect

01:42:19 What is incomprehensible about your spouse for the very reason that it is incomprehensible is a really great trick for marriage

01:42:27 You know rolling your eyes at a man who's behaving as a man is rejecting his masculinity

01:42:35 I'm sure I'm sure we could know if I were talking to your husband and I say well

01:42:41 What does your wife do that's kind of incomprehensible to you? I'm sure he could go on for the whole afternoon, right? Oh, yeah

01:42:47 Well, yeah for sure I

01:42:49 Mean apparently there's such a thing as childproofing your home. That's completely fascinating

01:42:54 I was a kid, but I'm sure you were pretty focused on that when you had your kids, right?

01:42:58 Yeah, I mean apparently apparently before you give

01:43:03 Your kids milk in a bottle that you've heated you where do you put it on your body?

01:43:08 You test it on your arm, yeah, you test it on the inside of your forearm, right?

01:43:13 Right because that's apparently apparently that's a sensitive. I had no idea

01:43:17 Men only think about one sensitive area. So apparently that's another one. Apparently there are two I had no idea

01:43:25 Right, right, so

01:43:29 Your husband is different from you and you know, it's the French say Viva Viva La Difference, right?

01:43:35 Relish and enjoy

01:43:37 the difference

01:43:41 Right, so you find you say k-47 I assume it's all legal you find you say k-47 and you say I'm glad there's something long

01:43:48 And hard in the house. No, I'm kidding. Don't say that

01:43:50 Don't say that

01:43:51 You say you say no, tell me. You know, tell me what your thoughts are. That's really cool that you got this. Tell me

01:43:57 Tell me what's I?

01:43:59 Didn't handle that. Well, then I didn't know

01:44:02 we're

01:44:03 it's kind of where we're all taught or

01:44:08 Instructed to that. We all have to be like each other and that women can't like women are like men and we're all the same and

01:44:15 Any deviance is wrong or bad and this is kind of a thing that women are women are wonderful, right?

01:44:19 Everything the ideal standard in modern culture is a woman and everything that deviates from that is bad, right?

01:44:25 Which is why the girls who sit nicely in class are praised and the boys who go insane because they're being treated like girls

01:44:31 Get ADHD and drugs, right? It's just this weird thing that's going on in society

01:44:35 uh-huh as a whole so

01:44:38 if you

01:44:40 If you respect and are curious about your husband's differences from you that which is incomprehensible to you

01:44:47 Should be interesting and fascinating

01:44:49 And you should enjoy that because you're not a lesbian and he's not gay

01:44:56 So you should enjoy

01:44:59 The things that your husband does that make no sense

01:45:01 Are exactly why you're with him because if everything your husband did made sense you'd be with a woman

01:45:07 Okay

01:45:09 Okay, right. Yeah

01:45:11 It's a wonderfully foreign territory that you get to explore in perfect safety for the rest of your life and enjoy the journey

01:45:19 Okay

01:45:21 Relish that he's a man just as he should relish that you're a woman now

01:45:25 I don't I mean there could be some arguments as to that how that might end up helping your sex life

01:45:29 But if he feels that his masculinity is wrong or bad because it's not the same as femininity

01:45:34 That ain't gonna help your love life like and by love

01:45:37 I don't just mean sex like just the appreciation of each other as man and woman cuz I mean

01:45:41 Aren't you a little bit on the roommate side at the moment?

01:45:43 Yeah, I mean, you know and he has said if you will just give me more

01:45:48 Affection, you know, he said I I mean he has said I don't have to have the sex but if you will just be more

01:45:56 affectionate and that was something I was definitely

01:45:59 failing at for a long time because I was angry and

01:46:04 so I you know, and so I've tried to

01:46:06 I'm trying to come around and do that and give him more affection and

01:46:12 you know give him a kiss and and and touch him and so that's something I definitely need to

01:46:18 I'm still working on working toward that. Okay, and I want to help you with that. I want to help you with that

01:46:24 So it's not husband a good provider

01:46:26 Yeah, okay. It does he make more money than you do?

01:46:30 Yeah, okay. Do you know why he makes more money than you do?

01:46:33 I

01:46:35 Don't know

01:46:37 John

01:46:38 Okay, some more. I mean, yeah, because I guess that you know, we went with the idea that the man is the provider

01:46:44 Yeah, yeah, I get that. So yeah, the reason why he's a good provider is because he's a man

01:46:49 Do you enjoy the money that he makes I do right you understand that the money and

01:46:54 The guns come from the same place

01:46:58 Right. Yeah, he pointed that out to me in our conversation. So yes. Yeah to provide and to protect right?

01:47:05 That's what men do to provide and protect

01:47:07 Right, right

01:47:08 So how how successful would your husband be if you mocked him for his career and rolled your eyes at every paycheck?

01:47:16 He brought home

01:47:18 Yeah, that wouldn't that wouldn't be good be pretty tough, right? Right? So you got it. You can't slice and dice people

01:47:27 Particularly men and women we can't slice and dice

01:47:29 right, so

01:47:32 the masculinity

01:47:34 You it sounds like you slice your husband slice and dice your husband, okay

01:47:38 The masculine impulse for him to be a good provider and you said he was a good father fantastic, right?

01:47:44 So the good father the good provider that's the masculinity so you don't get to carve up the masculinity into good and bad

01:47:52 This part I like it's very convenient to me makes a lot of money. He's a good dad. I appreciate that

01:47:57 Oh this part. I don't like it's kind of silly. It's ridiculous

01:48:00 I'm gonna roll my eyes at it. Like if you slice and dice people that's called conditional love

01:48:05 Okay, this part I like this part. I don't like this is good. This is bad

01:48:11 This I understand this is just stupid. I love what you do here. I hate what you do there. This is that that's called conditional love and

01:48:20 You are withholding from yourself one of the greatest glories of existence, which is just love every part of someone

01:48:26 Okay, just love every part of someone now the slicing and dicing happened right at the beginning. How do I know that?

01:48:34 How do you know because

01:48:41 You sliced out a part of him called. I was molested and

01:48:45 Judge that negatively. I don't talk about that. I don't ask about that. I don't want to know

01:48:50 Okay, all right

01:48:55 Also what he talked about with his therapist you can say well, he didn't really want to talk about it

01:48:59 It's like well, of course

01:49:00 Because you gave him permission to not talk about stuff and in fact you encouraged him to not talk about stuff by slicing and dicing

01:49:07 Him into good and bad

01:49:09 Okay, all right

01:49:13 So you say oh these things

01:49:16 You don't have to talk about things. You don't want to because I don't want you to talk about the things that I don't want

01:49:22 You to

01:49:23 Okay, so he's got this secret life. He's got he's touched. He's looking at pornography and lying about it

01:49:29 He's he's got this ex-girlfriend. He's

01:49:32 Trying to meet up with he's he's right

01:49:35 So he's got these secret lives because you don't and I'm not blaming you. I'm just saying this is the consequence, right?

01:49:40 He's got all that secret compartments

01:49:43 Because that's what you want

01:49:46 You want like you have not only given him permission

01:49:50 You've in a sense

01:49:53 Forced him into this defensive posture of having secret a secret life

01:49:58 Because you don't accept all of him

01:50:01 Okay, and look if I'm wrong if I'm astray this is your life

01:50:06 And I don't want to mischaracterize anything in what I'm saying because I'm making some pretty pretty broad statements here. Yeah

01:50:13 No, I mean, yeah, I I I

01:50:16 understand what you're saying, so

01:50:18 I guess how do I?

01:50:21 How do I fix this and I guarantee he's done that with you too because you know like tends to attract like

01:50:27 I'm sure that there are parts of you

01:50:31 That he rejects and

01:50:35 This is when you were saying earlier, you know, I love him and it's like, you know, you love him

01:50:39 that means you have to love all of him, right and

01:50:41 That's also a Christian commandment, right?

01:50:43 Right, right, even if there are parts of him that you feel are enemies to your happiness. What does Christ say to do with your enemies?

01:50:50 Yeah, I love your enemies. Love your enemies

01:50:53 So I'm sure and again, I so I'm not I'm not saying it's your fault I'm not saying it's his fault

01:51:01 I'm just really in my mind trying to unpack the cause and effect. What would it mean to love every part of?

01:51:07 your husband and

01:51:09 To reject none of him

01:51:11 To not give yourself the excuse to condemn him even in your own mind

01:51:29 Because the moment you condemn him in your mind

01:51:32 Even if it's just in your mind the moment you condemn him his response will be to create a secret life

01:51:37 Okay, I

01:51:42 Mean this is what addicts do right there. The addiction is condemned and they create a secret life

01:51:48 All right

01:51:52 Now this doesn't mean saying yes to everything he does it wants to do I don't mean anything like that

01:51:58 Can you open your heart and swallow him whole so to speak not slice and dice this good this bad?

01:52:04 You know, you can't carve people up into what you like what you don't like because the marriage vow is I love you

01:52:10 In sickness and in health in richness and in poverty

01:52:14 Yeah

01:52:18 For better or for worse now for better or for worse means we all have a worse side

01:52:23 I do you do your husband everyone has a worse side

01:52:27 But life

01:52:29 Life is a test a marriage is not a

01:52:32 Marriage is where you come home and you're accepted for who you are top to bottom back to front

01:52:37 What's in all weaknesses and strengths, right?

01:52:40 Because the world when a man is out there in the world, he's constantly being tested and constantly being found wanting, right?

01:52:46 Life is a test you gotta

01:52:49 Go make the money. You got to get the promotion. You gotta make the sale

01:52:53 You like this a big test right and you pass and you fail all the time

01:52:57 And you're judged as wanting all the time as a man. What do you come home? You come home to refuel?

01:53:02 You got to come home to someone

01:53:04 Who loves every part of you for exactly who you are?

01:53:07 Now again, you don't have to do any of that I'm just saying that it sounds like that's been missing

01:53:14 Then you have the right to carve your husband up

01:53:18 Like some parts love other parts dislike other parts hate other parts

01:53:24 But you and that the reason why you the reason do you know that the fundamental reason why?

01:53:29 You have to accept all of your husband is because if you say I hate this part of my husband

01:53:36 You were saying I hate part of myself

01:53:39 Like why does the Bible say a husband and wife are one flesh?

01:53:43 Because he is a manifestation of your choices. It's one of the reasons I asked why how pretty you were

01:53:50 Was because if you're very pretty and you're obviously very verbally skilled very intelligent a good conversation

01:53:56 It's great sense of humor like there's so much positive about you

01:53:58 That meant that you had your choice of how many guys pretty much an infinity so to speak, right?

01:54:03 Huh? So you had you had a choice of so many guys

01:54:10 And

01:54:14 You chose this guy now after your first marriage. She was still

01:54:18 No kids, right? So you weren't a single mom. You had to I asked about whether you had kids or not

01:54:21 Right, so you could have taken some time and you could have chosen any guy but you chose this guy

01:54:27 right

01:54:30 So if you reject him you are rejecting yourself

01:54:33 I'm saying do it selfishly. He is a manifestation of your choice

01:54:38 Not only did you date him get engaged to him marry him you gave him two kids and you've stayed together for 33 years

01:54:44 There's nothing that you can criticize about him. That doesn't bounce back on you. Nothing. I

01:54:49 Mean imagine if I looked at a thousand houses

01:54:53 To buy just the perfect house

01:54:57 And I finally

01:55:00 after

01:55:01 Years of looking at houses. I finally settle and buy one house and then I invite you over and I say

01:55:07 Oh, I hate this room man this room. It's just there's no light

01:55:10 It's it's crazy like that. The roof is is the wrong shape and you know, there's the backyards too small. What would you say to me?

01:55:17 You picked it

01:55:20 like you you could have picked any house right and you picked this house and

01:55:26 Now you you understand that you can't criticize the house without making yourself look ridiculous and idiotic

01:55:32 hmm

01:55:35 okay, you chose him and you chose to stay with him and

01:55:40 You chose to not talk about his molestation

01:55:44 Right and what that means is

01:55:48 You chose

01:55:51 Sexual dysfunction

01:55:54 Because you rejected that part of him

01:55:56 Okay

01:56:02 I'm trying to give you a hundred percent ownership here because you can't remember we said that if you can't fix it

01:56:07 It's important to stay away from the topic right about politics, right?

01:56:10 And it doesn't drive me crazy that your husband keeps consuming all this politics without being able to fix it

01:56:15 Ah, so I'm trying to give you here's the fix-it stuff

01:56:18 Okay, you rejected

01:56:21 the single most important

01:56:25 Occurrence in the sexual history of your husband

01:56:29 Okay

01:56:34 So the sexual dysfunction was not inflicted on you because you chose a man who'd been molested and you refused to talk to him

01:56:40 about the molestation

01:56:42 This didn't happen to you

01:56:46 You participated in it

01:56:50 It's both of yours problem because you distance yourself. Well, he was molested. He's got these sexual dysfunctions, right?

01:56:56 Mm-hmm. Yeah shows him knowing this and you chose to not talk about it with him

01:57:03 Okay, right and then here's the thing then you found out about his pornography and you condemned him didn't you

01:57:10 Yeah, right

01:57:13 Yeah

01:57:14 You chose a guy

01:57:16 Who'd been molested by older men had a horribly dysfunctional introduction to sexuality a

01:57:25 Criminal I mean he was a victim of criminal sexual predation as a child, right? You chose that guy

01:57:31 you'd never talked about it with him really and

01:57:34 then

01:57:36 When the symptoms of what you had both participated in you had both participated in this

01:57:41 because he also chose not to

01:57:44 Talk to you about this, but he also probably it's such a sensitive topic and he's a man

01:57:49 That if you didn't want to talk about it with him, he probably wasn't going to inflict the topic on you

01:57:54 Okay, so then when the inevitable symptoms of his sexual dysfunction showed up

01:58:01 You

01:58:03 Condemned him as if you had nothing to do with it as if you didn't choose him and also choose not to talk about it

01:58:09 with him

01:58:11 Which is like me condemning the house that I chose out of a thousand houses

01:58:17 Right you understand you are attacking a mirror here you are condemning and criticizing a mirror

01:58:25 You are

01:58:28 Absolutely involved in this relationship and there's nothing that your husband does or thinks or says that is separate from what you chose

01:58:36 You distance or yourself like you're judging him like

01:58:39 Like a teacher who's forced to teach a student

01:58:42 Okay, he is here and he is who he is because of your choices

01:58:51 Okay

01:58:57 You married him quickly

01:58:59 You avoided topics and you've never as far as I understood it sat down and said

01:59:04 Okay, tell me about this this this habit you have

01:59:08 Right, like I want to understand. I want to know we're in this together

01:59:13 Right, and I'm sorry, I'm sorry that I never asked you about your molestation

01:59:21 That must have been really tough for you

01:59:25 Because you haven't been able to talk about it with anyone and it was a hugely important event in your life

01:59:30 And I rejected you on that. It wasn't your fault. You were molested. You were a kid. You were unprotected by your parents

01:59:35 I hate your parents. They didn't protect you. I hate the people who abused you. I hate the men who molested you. I

01:59:41 Hate the effects that it's had on you

01:59:45 But I sympathize with you

01:59:47 because you were a victim in all of this and I

01:59:50 apologize

01:59:52 For not talking about it with you and creating helping to create this secret world

01:59:56 Because it's a reproduction right so when he was

02:00:01 Molested it became a shameful secret, right?

02:00:04 Because nobody wanted to ask him about it. Nobody wanted to talk about him every pretended nothing happened, right?

02:00:08 No, no move past right? So he has this shameful secret, right?

02:00:12 so then what happens with him and pornography he ends up at this shameful secret and

02:00:17 You end up wagging your finger at him and condemning and criticizing him

02:00:21 To the point where he's so desperate to evade your condemnation that he's holding up a child as protection

02:00:30 Blaming it on your son, right?

02:00:33 Wow

02:00:39 Wow

02:00:41 Yeah, that sounds yeah

02:00:43 That's good

02:00:46 You can't look you can condemn strangers all you watch. I've been known to do it myself. You can condemn strangers all you want

02:00:53 But you can't condemn the products of your own choices without condemning yourself you

02:00:58 Have this belief and maybe your husband has it too. I don't know. I haven't talked to him

02:01:03 You have this belief that you can't like you're in a rowboat

02:01:07 With your husband at the great storm of life and you think you can sink his side without drowning yourself

02:01:11 Everything you do to him you do to yourself

02:01:15 Okay

02:01:17 You were not a victim of him being a peeping Tom I

02:01:21 Don't agree with him being a peeping Tom, of course, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm, but it wasn't like a stranger

02:01:27 Looking into your house

02:01:30 You chose him and you chose not to talk about your sexual dysfunction and you chose to shut down sexual activity without discussing it in great

02:01:37 depth and detail

02:01:39 Right, why was he sexually dysfunctional because you wouldn't talk about the molestation

02:01:46 and

02:01:48 Yet

02:01:51 You put him on the other side of the room and think you can throw something at him and blame him and castigate him and

02:01:58 right

02:02:00 Mm-hmm. Yeah, but you chose him

02:02:02 He is not separate from any of your choices you and he are one flesh that's what the Bible means one flesh

02:02:10 right, right, I mean if

02:02:14 If you're trying to lose weight and the weight doesn't seem to come off because you keep eating too much

02:02:18 Do you get to punch yourself in the stomach and feel like a good person?

02:02:21 Is that effective and productive? No, no, it's not doing yourself

02:02:26 Okay

02:02:31 You're one flesh you're the same body and

02:02:34 You are bound up in every single one of his choices and you are bound up in his secret life

02:02:40 You are not separate from it

02:02:44 You are part of the reason he keeps the secret life

02:02:46 That's good news

02:02:51 In my opinion

02:02:53 Yeah, right. We were talking about the kitchen, right?

02:02:55 Yeah, the future serving is not great

02:02:58 Right so you can fix that

02:03:01 Okay

02:03:04 Okay, he can probably talk about this molestation and its effects on him for a month straight and

02:03:11 What I'm doing that will be what a burden that will be off his mind and heart and shoulders

02:03:15 Okay

02:03:19 Okay

02:03:22 He was a victim

02:03:25 Now he's involved in all of this too because he decided to marry a woman who resolutely avoided talking about the central trauma of his

02:03:33 life

02:03:34 So he's responsible. I'm not putting all the blame on you like he's innocent like you both chose each other

02:03:40 So he also can't condemn you for failing to ask him about his molestation

02:03:44 Because he chose a woman who avoided talking about his molestation

02:03:50 Because he wanted to avoid the trauma of talking about it. He wanted to avoid the shame

02:03:54 But the shame that you avoid it recurs and it returns

02:03:59 So he ended up not talking about the molestation and then being shamed for his pornography addiction, right?

02:04:04 right

02:04:07 So it didn't solve the problem and you can have peace in your marriage I think

02:04:15 Okay

02:04:19 But

02:04:22 You have to become one flesh with your husband

02:04:24 Which means if you reject him you reject yourself if you attack him you attack yourself if you criticize him you're criticizing yourself

02:04:31 Now if you do something wrong

02:04:35 Are you just supposed to condemn yourself and punch yourself in the face or scream

02:04:40 Nasty things at yourself in the mirror. No if you do something wrong

02:04:43 I think the good thing to do if you want to avoid doing it again is to be curious about it

02:04:48 No, why did I do that? Why did I have that approach? Why did I right?

02:04:51 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I mean I didn't just say you cold-hearted which how come you didn't ask him right?

02:04:58 I guess very gentle and curious right tell me right

02:05:01 Mm-hmm, right and was that helpful?

02:05:05 Yes, have I condemned you for anything?

02:05:07 No, no. No, you have been amazingly helpful

02:05:11 I mean giving me a lot to think about and I truly appreciate that

02:05:16 Yeah, it all it all makes sense. And that's definitely I'm hearing it in a different way. I've never thought about it before

02:05:22 Well, it's curious without condemnation is the essence of having a relationship

02:05:27 Yeah, I mean the government will condemn you the courts might contempt you the police will condemn you people online will condemn you

02:05:34 I mean, there's got a place that we go where people are curious about us without condemnation

02:05:39 Yeah, yeah, it's when we when we are critical and harsh towards someone we claim to love

02:05:45 Whatever wrong they've done is vastly overshadowed by the wrong that we are currently doing

02:05:49 Yeah to get your husband for the effects of you guys not talking about his molestation is

02:05:57 Worse than whatever he was doing online

02:06:00 In my humble opinion, right? I'm not saying that's some big proven thing out there in the universe

02:06:05 I'm just saying that level of self-criticism is say, okay

02:06:07 Your husband like when you get married your husband doesn't have a problem

02:06:11 Who has a problem?

02:06:14 Me you both do yeah, okay. Got you. You share it, right? Yeah

02:06:21 If he's not to blame that I'm to blame someone's got to be to blame we can't be a team or anything

02:06:27 So who you tell me who's to blame? Is it the milkman?

02:06:29 Skyra he's someone's got to be to blame. Tell me who to blame

02:06:34 You think your husband's the armed one

02:06:41 Yeah, okay both have a problem

02:06:47 Mm-hmm. You share a problem

02:06:50 Okay, you'd be curious about how it came about why it happened. What's going on?

02:06:56 Okay, I have a problem together right and that open gentle

02:07:03 Curious non-judgmental

02:07:07 Because you know judging him. How's that worked out?

02:07:11 Not not well, not well, right not well at all. I do want to stay married

02:07:16 I mean, you know the average lifespan for healthy women in their 60s is

02:07:20 Close to 90 right 30 years to go

02:07:24 and

02:07:26 Between now and you know dead I want to have you know a good relationship, right?

02:07:31 Right now, of course, he's gonna be skeptical and you know

02:07:35 You unfortunately have a lot of you both I think would have a lot of bad habits. Look we all have them

02:07:40 Please understand. I'm not I'm not isolating myself like some guru on a mountain floating above the troubles of the world

02:07:45 I struggle with all this stuff too. So

02:07:47 Understand that right?

02:07:50 so

02:07:52 We all have these these these habits, but you know if you've had 33 years of

02:07:57 Not talking about some pretty important stuff. It's not gonna turn around because you know, what's gonna happen is you're gonna be like, okay

02:08:04 I'm gonna be not judgmental. I'm gonna go and talk to my husband about stuff and then it's like it's gonna go badly

02:08:09 I'm like, I know this non-judgmental stuff wasn't gonna work. I can't believe he said that, you know, like it's like

02:08:14 Yeah, you're gonna you're gonna have to turn things around. It's literally like saying well, I I skipped one candy bar

02:08:19 Why haven't I lost weight? No, no process it takes time and I live like your husband is like well

02:08:24 I go to the gym once a month. Why am I not?

02:08:26 These things around right so okay, okay, right. So yeah, that's most of what I wanted to get across

02:08:36 Tell me what you think

02:08:38 Yeah, I think it definitely makes a lot of sense and I just had to be patient and

02:08:47 like you said give it time and I should yeah, I'm

02:08:51 approach it and think it through and

02:08:54 and

02:08:56 Make the move to do what I need to do