- 6 years ago
Career with Kindness with Jessica Rogers - life coach, Natalie Campbell MBE - CEO and Louise Pentland – You Tuber and influencer
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PeopleTranscript
00:00I'm Jessica Rogers. I am leading this chat this morning. I'm delighted to be here.
00:06I'm a career and leadership coach and I work with people to find and do work that really matters to
00:13them, which then enables them to live a life that they absolutely love. And it's great to be here
00:21to have this discussion with Natalie and Louise, all about kindness and career. You know, we're all
00:28living in uncertain times and in one way or another, our work has been affected. And now
00:35more than ever, it's important that we are most importantly, kind to ourselves and kind
00:41to ourselves and the way that we work. So I'm going to kick off today and start by asking
00:47Natalie and Louise to introduce yourselves. But before we do that, it's just to let you
00:53all know that the chat is open. So if you have any questions as we go through, please
00:58do type them in the chat and we'll answer them towards the end. Okay, so shall we start with
01:05you, Natalie?
01:07Good morning, everyone. And thanks, Jess, for the intro. I'm really excited to have this
01:14conversation because most of my career has been built on purpose. And I spend a lot of
01:19time talking about being nice and being kind both to ourselves and other people. My current
01:27job is CEO of Blue Water, but I've spent the last 10 years at least running my own businesses.
01:35I started my own business or my first business when I was 19. And at 21 in my last year
01:40of
01:40university, I opened a Morgan clothing franchise. So anyone that remembers the heart logo, Morgan
01:47store? Yeah, yeah, Morgan girls. I had had one of those. And just to say from the outset,
01:54I am sitting in my hallway, whilst some activity goes on in my flat, because I would not choose
02:00this, this sort of decor, decor behind me.
02:05We'll let you off.
02:08Thank you very much, Natalie. Louise?
02:10Hi there. I'm so excited to be on this, this experience. I started off my career as a blogger
02:20and YouTuber. And then over the course of 11 years now, that's really taken off and become
02:26an actual full time job and career. And I have a team of staff as well. And what started from
02:34just
02:34something I really enjoyed to do in the evenings has become something that I enjoy to do 24-7.
02:41So I make content about motherhood and lifestyle. I also have five bestselling books and a podcast
02:49and do some work on television as well. And in the last two years, I've really felt a shift from
02:55being
02:56very, very digital to being a little bit more traditional media, which has been lovely to see
03:01the way that media is changing. And I feel like media is collaborating a lot more than it did
03:07maybe six years ago. So I feel so honoured and so excited that Hello Magazine have involved me in
03:13this. And I'm really excited to hear more about your journeys, because I think of you guys as like
03:18proper career women. And I'm sort of someone that just had a hobby that went really well. And now I'm
03:25like, oh, now I have to do the business side as well as my hobby side. So I'm looking forward
03:29to learn
03:30from both of you.
03:32Thank you. Fantastic. Thank you, Louise. So it's great to hear that you've both taken control of
03:40your careers and you're doing things that you love and making the difference that you really want to
03:44make. And it sounds like in doing that, living on purpose as well, which in itself is a kind gesture
03:51for yourself. So I'm just curious, just to start, maybe if we start with you, Louise, you know,
03:57how are you finding work in these current challenging times?
04:01Yes, thank you. So big, big changes for our industry. But then also, we're probably one of
04:10the most prepared industries for it, because we do so much of our whole lives are digital. So we were
04:18already quite comfortable with screens and this kind of at home setup. At the beginning, all of the brands
04:26and businesses that we work with, that we have sort of brand partnerships with, were a little bit shaky,
04:32understandably, in March, April and May. A lot of them delayed any of their work or just pulled out of
04:40it,
04:40which was really nerve wracking. I look back now and think, oh, it was fine. Like it all picked up
04:45in the summer.
04:45But obviously, the hindsight is 2020. Excuse the 2020 pun. And it was a really frightening time,
04:53because you had the news saying, this is going to be a year, this is going to be terrible. And
04:57you think,
04:58you forecast ahead and think, can my business survive a year? But fortunately, for the social
05:04media industry, it didn't have to, and it's all picked back up. And we've just found new ways of doing
05:08things like this, for example. This last year, we would have all been in London, sat on a small stage
05:14with a glass of water next to us. We would have had a chat in a green room. But instead,
05:19I DM'd you
05:20both, but I'm looking forward to meeting you. So I think that we have adapted. The challenges,
05:26the biggest challenge, I think, has actually been, you know, the phrase, read the room. So it's very
05:34difficult to know what's the exact right thing to serve your audience, who are also your customer base.
05:43Because on one hand, they want a lot of positivity, and they want an escape and a break from maybe
05:49some of the hard things that are really happening, IRL. But on the other hand, you want to be
05:55sensitive to, you know, the family who's just the dad's been made redundant, and mum's lost her job,
06:02and children don't have a nursery place. And you don't want to be like, hey, guys, just bought this
06:06fab new top online, because that's not what they want to hear. So it's been really, really difficult
06:12to work out what the level is, and to get that right. And when you don't get it right,
06:18to immediately apologise and deal with that effectively. So I'm hoping that next year is
06:25just a little bit more chill.
06:28Yeah. So hearing that you've had to adapt, you've had to,
06:32or maybe on a day-to-day basis, almost, read what's going on, and react to a certain extent
06:40to that, as opposed to having this beautifully, beautiful plan, which you then execute.
06:46No problem, yeah.
06:47But at the same time, you're still able to serve your audience in a way that's authentic to you,
06:52but also giving them something as well, and adding some value to what they're going through as well.
06:58We hope so. We try to. But adaption has definitely been a big thing this year. And a front of
07:05house
07:05in terms of what we're giving out to an audience, but also my team, usually I'm with them every day,
07:11but now I still have the office, but not so much. We kind of go maybe one day a week
07:16separately,
07:17so we're all in a different time. So yeah, it's been a changing year, and I think that we've learned
07:22a lot from it. What about you, Natalie? What have you found most challenging during this time?
07:30Yeah, so right now, I think the context for a lot of this is that when you're building a career
07:40or a
07:40life you love, there's a lot of things that, you know, for me, ultimately merge together. So I don't
07:46think about my career, and I don't think about my home life. It's just, you know, I have one life.
07:51Being locked down, home has suddenly become work, and work has become home. And you've been invited
07:59into people's homes and spaces. And the sorts of things that people would be mortified by,
08:05I think, you know, if everyone casts their mind back to the BBC interview and the young child that runs
08:10in while the experts giving the interview, you know, it was big news. Now that's just standard
08:15everyday activity. And if it's not a child, it's a cat, or it's a dog, or it's the electrician walking
08:20past the screen, or it's a neighbour coming up the stairs because you're sitting in your hallway doing
08:25a, you know, a panel. The challenges are that we're having to be okay and uncomfortable with all of
08:34the things that would have embarrassed the hell out of us a year ago. And how do you do that
08:38in the
08:39moment? And I think everyone has just gone, do you know what, let's just relax. Let's just take this
08:47every panel, every conversation, every work Zoom, every work Teams hang out at a time. And for me
08:57personally, I joined Baloo on the 2nd of March, we went into lockdown three weeks later. So I only ever
09:03met my team once in person. And so to build a business and a culture and take a business through
09:08a crisis, having never really engaged with people from an emotional level in person,
09:15you know, that home coming to people directly through a screen became really important because
09:21they got a sense of who I am, how I operate, and I got a sense of who they are
09:26in a far more
09:27intimate way. And so the challenge becomes actually a really beautiful thing in that I know them so much
09:33more because of all of the things I see behind them. And, you know, the home life becoming part
09:37of the swirl of work. So challenges that flow into opportunities, I guess, is the summary.
09:46Yeah, that's so, you've really hit the nail on the head there, that this whole time has been quite a
09:51great, it's been a great leveller, hasn't it? There's, you know, there's no facade, actually. And whilst
09:55we all want to show up as professional, and particularly for you in your position as CEO of
10:01Blue Water, you know, you want to put that professional face on, particularly when you
10:04first go in, you want to create an impression. But actually, you can, what I'm hearing is that
10:09you can still create that impression, but you're creating it from an even more authentic place.
10:14And also, you're all on that, it really is that level playing field that you're all coming from,
10:19because you're all in your home environments. And you're all, you're all doing your work and doing
10:25your work well, but you're doing it from a different place. That's wonderful.
10:29And I think just to build on that, you know, I think everyone cast their minds back to March
10:34and April. I think we were probably doing our meetings, you know, dressed in work attire by June.
10:42I have not left Lycraville. Yeah, it's okay. Now, you know, I meet my team, and you know,
10:49my hair has not been washed for a week. I've just come back from the gym, and I'm totally sweaty.
10:55And I'm like, yeah, I haven't been in the shower yet. Like that, you know, the sorts of things that
10:59you would have, you just wouldn't have put out there. That's changed for everyone. And I have spoken
11:06to really, really, really senior people that are sitting there just in a hoodie. And they're like,
11:10yeah, because I'm at home. Why am I gonna put on a shirt and a tie to have this conversation?
11:15And so it is a great leveler. And I think people are now allowed to just be their authentic selves
11:21and wear gray sweats under the really lovely blouse, and you know, wear slippers and be
11:26comfortable and all of the things that we were just talking about before this started.
11:29Yeah, I think you're right. I definitely noticed over the summer with my clients,
11:32and that it was almost like it was if you had an early morning meeting to come to the meeting,
11:36as you say, in sweats, whatever, it was like, I've had a morning walk,
11:39or I've had a morning workout. And that was a good thing, because that was demonstrating
11:43I'm looking after myself in what is a really difficult time. So that was great.
11:47That's brilliant. And so just a question to both of you, really, what have you learned
11:52about yourself? Like, you know, if there were some really specific things that you'd learned
11:57about yourself that you didn't know before that you knew, but you've learned it differently,
12:02or unlearn about yourself in this time, and in the way that you work? What would you say that would
12:09be?
12:12Shall I jump on? I don't know if mine is a good one or a bad one. I think it's
12:19just neutral. I've learned
12:22that I was going too fast in 2020 at 2019. Sorry. And at the time, whilst I was, so I
12:32live in Northampton,
12:33which is about an hour and 10 minutes north of London. And I was coming to London two or three
12:38times a week, I would do a whole day. And then I'd be like, since I'm here, I'm going to
12:42do an evening
12:42event as well, because I may as well make the most of it. I'd get home at midnight, I'd be
12:46up again at
12:47seven with my children, at eight, I would be on messages to my team, like, what are we doing today?
12:52Then I'd be filming, then it was just so much. And in 2019, I thought, this is what success looks
12:58like. I'm successful, because I'm exhausted. And because I'm so tired, that's a currency of my
13:05success, because I've worked hard, I've worked harder than anybody else, because I'm more tired
13:10than anybody else, which means I'm at the very top, because I'm doing well, but I'm tired. And it was
13:14just this really vicious circle of, if I wasn't tired, if I had a weekend where I just chilled out
13:20with my children, took them to the park, did a bit of food shopping, I was like, oh, I've really
13:24not
13:24achieved much, I've wasted this weekend, I've wasted time. This hasn't been a high value day.
13:31And then 2020 happened, and suddenly, everything just stopped. And on a personal level, in sort of
13:38March and April, there was a lot going on in my personal life, as well as the pandemic, as well
13:42as work.
13:43And I just sort of crashed a little bit. And it's just like, I can't, I can't actually do all
13:48this.
13:48I just physically can't, there's too much going on. Unfortunately, I had really great people around
13:53me that kept everything ticking over. And then come sort of August time, I was like, oh, yeah,
13:58okay, like Phoenix on the ashes, but not very regal, more just like, here I am. And now I think,
14:05well, hang on a second, if we look at things, I still feel like my life is good. I'm really
14:10happy with
14:10my family and my job. And success is different now success is, my heart doesn't race really fast,
14:20where I have to go, am I okay, and I don't feel exhausted. And revenue is down on last year,
14:27but we're in a pandemic. And I haven't had as much fun as I thought I was having last year.
14:33But I've been
14:34really happy and my children are really happy. And my relationship with my fiance is really strong.
14:40And I'm like, oh, maybe this is success. So I think I've learned to put value in different areas
14:47and to appreciate that more.
14:51So you've redefined, it sounds like what you're, you know, what you see as success.
14:56Yeah, I hope I can carry that into 2020 word and 22. And I don't one day think,
15:01I've done it again. Didn't I learn anything? What am I doing?
15:06So staying aware and conscious of that as well.
15:09And success changes, or your measure of success changes, and that's okay.
15:15Yeah.
15:16I'm just curious as well, just hearing what you were saying about,
15:18you would be in London two or three times a week, and then you do an evening event to come
15:22back.
15:22So have you learned different ways perhaps to juggle life, you know, with the kids,
15:28with the business, with yourself? Have you learned any different things around that?
15:32Yes, definitely. So last year, I thought that it's really important to go to absolutely everything
15:39in London that you can to meet people and, you know, to have those connections and communication
15:45with people and build those relationships. But this year, because we've all been in the same boat,
15:49and I don't think I could have done it if we hadn't all been on the same playing field.
15:54It's just been, there's different ways that you can connect with people like this, for example,
15:59or I went to, I say I went, I literally sat just here, like my laptop is propped up on
16:04an ironing
16:04board. And down here, I've got like my kids Christmas shopping just there.
16:09So I went to an event in my bedroom for Ruth Langsford. She was celebrating three years of having
16:15her clothing collection. And before I would have been like, I must leave my house. I have to leave
16:20two hours earlier and blah, blah, blah. And they sent afternoon tea here. And I have my laptop up
16:26and we have this Zoom and we were all having afternoon tea. And I just thought, I haven't done
16:30four hours of travel to get to the south of London. And when this is finished, I'm going to shut
16:34my
16:34laptop and I'm going to go and pick up my daughter from school and ask her what she did today.
16:38And all of those things. So I really do miss being around people. But if we could,
16:45if I could design it, I'd have it be sort of like 60, 40, so 60% back with people,
16:51but 40%,
16:52I will maybe ask myself, do we need to have an event for this? Do we, for a meeting, for
16:57example,
16:58that's not broadcast to lots of people, if it's just a meeting with some producers or whatever,
17:02I might say, shall we just have a Zoom? Because I think they would like that more as well.
17:08And my dad, for example, runs, I know I'm waffling, I'll cut this short in a minute.
17:12My dad runs a production company where they film business to business videos. And he usually had
17:19to send his producer and director out to America to shoot these things, which is where they do it.
17:24And then they have a crew over there, but he is saving so much money in his business because now
17:32his producer and director direct over Skype or Zoom, they plug the cameras in and they have this
17:39big setup where they can see all the camera angles. And for him, it's great because he gets to be
17:43involved in the process. He can go into his office and say, camera three, such and such. They're saving
17:48money. People are having more time with their families. And that must have a positive effect
17:53effect on everyone if we're getting home for dinner in time. And it's so, last year it was
17:59so antiquated to get home for dinner on time. I don't need to do that. But I like that now.
18:04I like having dinner with my family most of the time.
18:08There's a kindness in being connected, being connected in the way that you want to be
18:13connected, not just with work, but with your family and work as well.
18:19What about for you, Natalie? What have you learned or unlearned?
18:23So, you know, I agree with a lot of what Louise said. I probably started my slowdown
18:32sooner and I'm someone that, you know, I need to be in bed by 10 o'clock. I like to
18:36sit down
18:36and have dinner with myself or friends. And so I, and as an introvert, I couldn't maintain the pace
18:43of being with lots of people. So the thing that I learned about myself is what's the right balance
18:48for me as when locked down here, I think there was two months where I didn't see anyone. And then
18:54all
18:54of my single friends that live locally, we start to say, you know, we need to create our own bubbles.
18:58We'd start going, we'd go on runs together. And it just, it felt like I was more present in
19:06the whole process of being with my friends versus pre-lockdown. Actually, you know, everyone was,
19:13we'd be out, but we'd also be talking about the thing that we were doing next. Whereas there was no
19:18next, the next day was actually just the same thing. And I became okay in doing the same thing
19:26every single day. And there was a comfort in the familiarity of doing the same thing
19:31every single day. And I didn't think that I was comfortable with repetition and the same thing
19:38happening, but actually going for a run every day, knowing what time lunch is, knowing that I was
19:44seeing a friend in the garden, those sorts of things became really comforting. And that's definitely
19:50been a lesson of this for me. And one that I want to maintain exactly as you said, Louise,
19:56it's about maintaining it when the world goes back to whatever our new version of normal is. How do we
20:02keep those moments that have actually probably been the most kind from a personal place?
20:10It sounds like there's something about being really present and giving yourself permission
20:15to be really present without worrying about where perhaps it was previously where you want to be
20:21present, but there's so much else going on. But now everybody's forced to be present,
20:25and there's a kindness in that to your relationships as well.
20:30Yeah. And, you know, this conversation is about kindness. I think the other word is,
20:39the beauty of life. Does everyone remember the summer days? You'd open the window and you hear
20:43the birds in a way that you would never heard the birds before. I'd never heard the birds before.
20:49And every morning I was like, oh, they're just singing to me. This is lovely. And it was so quiet
20:55and something that it's not right now. I don't know what's going on in my flat, but it's noisy.
21:02Yeah. So, you know, I think it's about trying to find those moments again and finding the quiet and
21:10finding those beautiful moments. And that it just means that our lives become just kind and beautiful
21:19by default, as opposed to us being forced into it because of a pandemic.
21:24Absolutely. And when you both were talking about maintaining what you've created as well,
21:30and I'm hearing there's something about boundaries, because something I've definitely heard from my
21:34clients is that at first there was a blurring of the lines between work and home. Perhaps for
21:40some people didn't work because they felt like they were constantly 24 hours a day they were on
21:45because they had work at home. But actually, there's something about that doesn't necessarily
21:50have to be a negative thing. If you can create the right boundaries so that you can have home and
21:55have work, but also pick out the things that are really working for you and maintain those things
22:01so that you create, I hate the expression, but you create your own new normal with the right
22:06boundaries, with the right juggling and also with the right connection and staying connected in
22:12the way that you really want to stay connected. Fantastic. So I'm just going to, before we carry
22:20on, I just want to check if anybody who's, any of our attendees here, if they, if you have any
22:25questions, do please remember to pop them into the chat because myself, Natalie and Louise would love
22:31to hear from you. And we already had somebody with a thumbs up and an agreement that lockdown
22:36has definitely allowed us to bring our whole selves to work. And, and, you know, it's echoing what
22:43you've both said. And I think what I'm definitely hearing wider around, you know, what, what's going
22:49on with lockdown. So I just wonder from both of you, you know, in terms of your, your work and
22:56in
22:57terms of how you are operating different, differently, specifically with, within your industry, or, you know,
23:03can you see some changes within your industry, um, that you specifically see as, um, kind and you see
23:11as, um, as good and something that will be good to continue going forward? Natalie?
23:18Yeah. So, you know, when lockdown first started, I think the hospitality industry mobilized around
23:24feeding the NHS, but also, you know, as individuals, we started to wonder about our neighbor, you know,
23:29does my neighbor have enough food? Does the, the older lady that lives across the road,
23:35has anyone checked in to see if she's okay? And now with the half term actually mobilizing to say,
23:42well, let's feed the kids that don't have breakfast, lunch, and dinner as, as we do. And so there's a
23:49bit,
23:49going back to the word beauty, there's been a thing of people just realizing there's more than just me,
23:53there's more than just my immediate family, actually let me care about my neighbors and my neighborhood
23:59and do something, um, that I, that, you know, I would have done if I wasn't so busy. And the
24:07busyness of life
24:08means that we don't always think about what other people need. Being able to pause meant that we had
24:14more capacity and space to help someone else. And it made us feel great to help, which is why I
24:20think we saw the
24:20outpouring around, um, yeah, just, just everything, everyone was giving money and doing as much as
24:29they could. So I think that's been the positive thing in the hospitality industry. The flip side, um,
24:34has been that we ultimately, um, have an industry that's had to totally adapt to the way that they are
24:45operating. So being outside, um, a lot more, you know, small restaurants that didn't have
24:51outside space or, or coverage, um, have now set up outdoor terraces and they have,
24:59I guess, embraced the sort of the European outside dining culture, which again, I don't know if,
25:05you know, for you, Louise or, or Jess, I love being outside and I don't mind being outside with a
25:10blanket
25:10and a heater, um, keeping me warm. Um, but it's not, you know, that that's a totally different
25:17cultural way. I think for lots of people that were out and dining. So we've seen that, um,
25:24we've seen people or the industry adapt in that way. And I think everyone from a supply chain
25:29perspective has been kinder, you know, we, we haven't gone to payments, but if you're a freelancer
25:36joining us, um, or you're someone running a business, I think everyone's thought about paying
25:40their suppliers on time and making sure that money is flowing or having very honest conversations about
25:47money and, and finances, um, to ensure that, you know, the businesses that we went into lockdown
25:55with are still there on the other side. And that's been a really, um, powerful thing.
26:00Yeah, I completely agree with you. I think there's definitely be a recognition
26:04that, you know, we all have a part to play, um, to make this work, you know, what is a
26:09difficult
26:09situation work. And I think what you're saying about suppliers paying on time, I'm definitely
26:14seeing an uplift in that, which is fantastic. Absolutely fantastic. Thank you. What about you,
26:20Louise? What are you noticing in your industry? Um, so I've noticed that, so on, on a business side,
26:27um, I've noticed that we have all realized that we don't need as much like faff as we thought we
26:36did.
26:36Um, so, um, the, the few shoots that I have done much less than last year, but there's been much
26:43less
26:44people on set, whether that's a photo shoot for a magazine or, um, it's a filming shoot for a segment
26:51on something before. And for me, it's great because before I used to get so nervous, there'd be like
26:5710, 20 people in the room. And I think I haven't, I only know three people here. And one of
27:02them's my
27:02makeup artist who's in my face. And the other two is the director that I just met and the camera
27:07person,
27:07that's it. And then all these other people, but now all those other people have gone. And I don't
27:11know if that's a good thing because I hope that they're okay. And they're still, they're still
27:16found different ways to work, but I found there's a lot less just fanfare and everything still works
27:25and it's still okay. And I, I don't think it's sustainable. I think we're making do and making
27:30it work. And I don't think we'll be like this forever, but I wonder if we will go back up
27:35to
27:35the same level of what we need for runners and, you know, people, I don't need a runner,
27:40get my own drinks. That's what you find. And I think that it's, it's leveled everyone a
27:46little bit more as well. So when you go for me specifically, when I go to an event or a
27:51shoot or something like that, no one's more special than anyone else. We're all just
27:55making it work together. And I really like that because I feel uncomfortable with that
28:00unspoken hierarchy of things. I like that. It's just kind of everyone just mucking in and getting
28:08things done. Um, and because we're not, I know this goes slightly into home life, but for me,
28:14like you, like Natalie said, my whole life just is my life. Um, because I'm not traveling all the
28:20time because I'm not feeling that level of exhaustion. I've got more time for the people
28:24around me. I've got to know my neighbors this year for VE day. Everyone came out and sat at the
28:28end of their gardens. And I had chats with Wendy, who lives four doors down, who I've never had a
28:34conversation with before. And I've lived here three years and that I feel has really enriched
28:38my life and made me happier. And then when I come online to do my online bits, I'm giving a
28:44better
28:44version of myself because I'm not just this like half charged flesh sack. Like I'm like, hi, I'm a well
28:53person. Hello. So I want to jump in on that. So just an amazing thing that happened on my road.
29:01I've lived, um, in Kensal Rise probably for eight, nine years. And I have heard someone play the
29:07violin. I thought badly, uh, for eight, nine years at 7 30 AM in the morning. And I would curse
29:14them at
29:15the weekend and be like, who is this person playing the violin? And I didn't realize I lived next to
29:19a
29:19family, um, that playing in a globally renowned orchestra and they did a performance outside the
29:26house. Um, and my immediate neighbor also plays the violin. So we had a cellist and violinist and
29:32all of the neighbors came out and socially distanced. And I sat outside my front door on a
29:37stool with a glass of wine and had a proms performance. And now I go, oh, it's my wonderful
29:45neighbor. And who played? And I spent eight years lambasting this person in my mind for playing. And
29:52it's just the small things that actually, you know, it's now not an annoyance. I appreciate
29:57the beauty of what they did in that moment for everyone on the road. It's a really small example,
30:02but, um, that's the upside. That's the kindness that's come through.
30:07Yeah. And it's not a small example because we're all having those. So collectively that
30:12will be such a huge national example. We now have a WhatsApp group for our road and it's lovely
30:18because the other day someone messaged say, oh, they're doing gas works on Thursday. So
30:22you won't be able to turn left at the bottom and just those sorts of things. I'm like,
30:26this is nice. This is community. I spend my whole life building a digital community. That's what I've
30:33been doing for 11 years. I love it dearly. But now I'm like, I've actually got a real community
30:39as well. Um, and it's lovely.
30:43And that's great for our wellbeing, for our mental wellbeing, our emotional, our spiritual
30:49wellbeing, what you're describing, Natalie, you know, hearing me be able to sit on your doorstep
30:53and listen to beautiful music. You know, that can only be a good thing for your, your, you know,
30:59your physical, your physiological wellbeing as well. And that's just wonderful. It's so great to hear,
31:04it really is. So we have a question. Um, somebody is asking, how do you set work hours from home?
31:11I'm finding it really hard to log off at the end of the day.
31:15I wish I had some good advice for this, but I don't. So I would like to ask the question
31:20too,
31:20because sometimes I find it last night at half 11, I was looking for a top for a Zoom thing
31:26next week.
31:27And I was like, why am I doing this now? I could just do this tomorrow, but I'm, I'm addicted
31:31to it.
31:32I really enjoy it. So I don't have any advice. I'm the worst person. I'll sit back.
31:37If you're really enjoying it or if you're, if you're feeling under pressure to do it and then
31:42there's the difference, isn't there actually? Yeah. Yeah. Natalie.
31:47I have switched off rituals. Um, so usually involves some red wine. Um, but it, you know,
31:55I do, I pour a glass of wine or I make a cocktail and I start making dinner or
32:02I schedule in a call with a friend, um, or I have been looking at interior swatches or just
32:09something that isn't work. And I start doing it about five 36 o'clock. Um, and that just eases me
32:16into a different mindset. And I think you have to, if, if you're not good at just switching off
32:21automatically, you need to give yourself another task. So find another task that brings you enjoyment,
32:25that maybe hopefully moves you away from the screen into a different space. Cause I, I find
32:31it's the screen that then becomes the thing that you stay on. And if I've got friends that don't have
32:36TVs and so they've been watching TV on their laptop. So they finish a day of zoom watching TV on
32:43the
32:43laptop. It's very easy to slide back into the inbox or very easy to say, oh, let me just finish
32:48writing
32:48that report. And so it's doing the things that move you out of work zone, out of workspace into,
32:54I am, I am relaxed. I am now doing something that's looking after, um, me. And I, now I do
33:00not touch my laptop at the weekend. So it goes in a corner, a way out of sight. And there
33:06is no
33:06engagement with my laptop until possibly Sunday evening, if I want to prep for the week or first
33:11thing Monday, but you have to be strict to, um, to make it work, especially given everything is now
33:19work, life, home. You're absolutely right. It's creating those rituals, isn't it? And it's building
33:26is because they have to become new habits because it's easy for the habit, as you say, to become,
33:30you work on the laptop and then you watch TV on laptop, or then you do something else that's on
33:34the
33:34laptop. So it's that every day saying right now it's 5.30, I'm going to switch that off and put
33:39it in
33:40the corner. And they do say it takes 21 days for a habit to become normal. So you have to,
33:44you have
33:45force yourself to do it every single day. And I love what you say about putting your laptop away
33:50at the weekend. I think we can all definitely learn from that. Yeah. Somebody's thanking you,
33:55thanking us all for being so open and sharing with us. And whilst this pandemic or lockdown has been a
34:00horrible time, I believe we have all really put things into perspective and see what is truly
34:05important. Absolutely. Couldn't agree more on this in agreement there. And then another question.
34:11This year, there has been an emphasis on community. If you want to reach out to a new group of
34:16people,
34:17a sisterhood or a mentor or mentee, etc, but fear rejection, what's the best approach?
34:28Well, I was just going to say Albright. It's a network. It's a sisterhood of women meeting in a
34:35space. There's an online community. We did a summit with Albright in June for women in the hospitality
34:42and food and beverage industries. And so you go to a space where people are already open. That's the
34:50first stage if you want to build up your confidence in finding mentors or finding inspiration.
34:58But equally, I think more people have reached out to me on social media. And because I have
35:04actually been available and on, I've looked into my messages and I've responded to things. And
35:10at the moment, I don't have the capacity to be a mentor to anyone. But I've just said, look,
35:16if there's a question that you want to ask me, just ask. Here's my email address. I can send you
35:22some thoughts, send you some links. And so maybe don't ask for everything. Just ask for the one
35:27thing that's really important. And that starts to build a relationship with people. But I find that
35:33a lot of people are very responsive. And if it's not Instagram, LinkedIn, which is obviously more of a
35:39work-focused platform, use the platforms that are there. Because I think, given we are all in front
35:46of our screens for a lot more time, people are engaging and coming back in support of others.
35:55I love that. Ask for the one thing that's really important. Don't ask for everything
35:58as a starting point. That's great advice.
36:02I really like that advice as well. I much prefer it when people are direct. Just, hey,
36:07this is the thing that I want. This will sound a bit negative, but hopefully everyone listening
36:13could use it. The one thing that a little bit makes me want to smash my face on my keyboard,
36:18and I realize it's coming from a really polite place, but I'm just like, is when people say,
36:24hey, can I pick your brains? I just think, no, please don't. Because I just want you to tell
36:30me what one thing you want to pick and I'll give it to you. But I don't want you to
36:33pick all because
36:36I feel like my brain's in a million places. So my very niche advice would be, don't ever start with,
36:43can I pick your brains? But start with, hey. So this is on Instagram for me is where I get
36:49the most of my
36:50communication from people. And I'll just have DMs being like, hey, I always think start with a
36:55compliment. That's what I would do is like, hey, I love what you talked about at such
36:59and such. I just wanted to ask X, Y, Z. Thanks so much if you have the time. I really
37:06admire what
37:07you do. And then make it like a little compliment to butter someone up. What you want, end it nicely.
37:13And I just think, oh, that's lovely. That's my little go in when I want to ask someone something.
37:17And if they don't respond, never take it as a personal rejection. I can promise you that in 11 years,
37:25I've never seen something and thought, oh, no, don't like her. Don't like him. Absolutely not.
37:31Not going to respond. It makes me sad that I can't respond to everyone. It really is a time thing
37:37or
37:38maybe a mental health thing or maybe just someone doesn't know the answer, but it's not a rejection
37:44of you. It's just a limitation that they have. We all have our limits. So please don't ever walk away
37:51and think, well, I'm not going to try. I'm not going to ask the next person. I'm not going to
37:54try
37:54the next thing because I'll be rejected again. You haven't been rejected. It's just, unfortunately,
37:59that person might have reached their capacity that day, week, month, et cetera.
38:06That's a good, great advice as well. Don't always take it personally. And I like the structure
38:11that you give. We're going to have loads of people sliding into your DMs now and we're
38:16buttering you up. Better question. I like to be buttered up.
38:21And somebody, so somebody's just said, switch off rituals. Genius. Thank you.
38:25I'm going to try and implement some next week. So that's great. That's really great to hear.
38:30So listen, we're coming to the end now. We've only got a few more minutes. So what I'd love from
38:34you
38:34both is a top tip, a top tip for career kindness. So you've given us some great strategies that you're
38:42using and things that you've learned. But if there was one top tip that you could give
38:47that's carried you through and that you want to carry forward for career kindness, what would that be?
38:55Louise, do you want to go first?
38:58I don't know because I feel like you're going to give a much better answer than me. So I'll wait
39:01till Natalie does her really good answer and then I'll build on that. That's what that was my strategy
39:06for that. For career kindness. I'm so fortunate that my career really does meld so wonderfully
39:13into my whole life, which I personally like. I know some people don't. And I think that it would
39:19just be to take when you feel like when you're feeling angry or ratty or just really exhausted,
39:26take a step back before you react to something. I'm the kind of person where if something goes wrong
39:32or someone's made a mistake, my inside personal reaction is to be like,
39:37about it. But you can't at people because that doesn't get you anywhere. They feel demoralized.
39:45They feel rubbish. You come across not very well. So it's to just take some time, put some time before
39:52your reaction, whether that's five minutes or a whole day or a whole week, just to come back to it
39:58and get fresher and with more compassion. My partner told me this great little analogy or metaphor
40:06where he said there was a man wearing a coat and the sun and the wind had a bet to
40:12see who could get
40:13the man to take his coat off quicker. And the wind said, I can blow that off really easily. So
40:17the wind
40:17blew and blew, but the man just held his coat round more and the sun shone and it was so
40:22lovely. And the man
40:23took his coat off. So be the sun and not the wind. And you will get a lot further.
40:32So I'm going to build on that.
40:35Dammit, that's my strategy.
40:39And just, you know, kindness starts with yourself. If you're not kind to yourself,
40:43there's no way that you have the capacity to hold in the frustration that you sometimes want to share.
40:50So be kind to yourself, look after yourself first, and you'll be able to be kind to other
40:54people and deliver that throughout everything you're doing in your career.
41:00And I just wanted to, I want to add one, if I may, is to remember to take time to
41:06reflect,
41:07because it's really important to reflect on what's gone well and also what you've learned,
41:12what's not gone so well, but what you've learned from that. So take some time
41:15time to reflect and recognise what you're capable of as well, because that helps you to face whatever
41:23storms, whatever wind might come your way, but also helps you to bask more in the sunshine when it comes
41:29to.
41:30You smashed that round up. That was beautiful. That was a really nice round up.
41:38Thank you so, so much for being here today. I've really enjoyed this conversation. It's great to
41:44learn from you both about being kind and with the kindness in your career and beauty. I love the
41:51beauty as well, Natalie. So thank you for bringing that to the fore. So I hope you enjoy the rest
41:56of
41:56your day and have a wonderful weekend. And yeah, enjoy the rest of the Hello Summit. And thank you
42:04everybody for joining us today. And do enjoy the rest of today and have a wonderful, kind day.
42:12Thank you so much for having us. Bye.