00:00ESPN's Mark Schleba joins us right now.
00:03Mark's got the number one trending story right now on ESPN.com.
00:08Mark's covered so many sports, golf and college football, among those that he is most associated with.
00:15And this morning, or late last night, he put out a story about a cease and desist letter sent by
00:23the attorney representing Jaden Daniels to LSU
00:27and to LSU's athletic director for them to stop using his name, image and likeness.
00:33But it goes beyond that because Mark was able to get statements from the Daniels camp on what this might
00:42really be about.
00:44With that, thank you, Mark, for doing this.
00:47As always, I love talking to you.
00:48We'll do a college football preview in a couple of weeks.
00:51That's more fun.
00:52But tell us what this is all about and what you learned from the spokesperson.
00:58Yeah, we got this tip yesterday afternoon and reached out to Daniels camp and said, hey, we're here.
01:05And there's a problem at LSU with his jersey number, number five.
01:11That DJ Pickett, sophomore corner, was number two cornerback in the country last year as a recruit out of Florida
01:19and played as a true freshman, was a freshman All-American.
01:22He wore number three last year.
01:24He wore number five to practice last week.
01:28And some reporters asked Lane Kiffin about it.
01:30And the Daniels camp, we were told the Daniels camp was really upset about it,
01:34that there might have been a cease and desist letter sent.
01:37And, you know, late last night, got my hands on the cease and desist letter,
01:42talked to some folks at LSU, talked to some people in Daniels camp.
01:45And, yeah, it's a pretty big step.
01:49And, you know, his number has not – Jake Daniels, number five, has not been retired by LSU.
01:58LSU got out of the business of retiring numbers in 2007.
02:03There's only one jersey an LSU football player can't wear, and that's Billy Cannon's number 20,
02:10which was retired decades ago.
02:12But, you know, for whatever reason, Jaden Daniels and his camp were under the impression
02:19that no one would ever wear his jersey again, and no one has worn Joe Burrow's number nine
02:26since he left in 2019.
02:27And for whatever reason, I think they feel like they're not being treated the same as Joe Burrow.
02:33Well, I mean, for it to be apples to apples with Joe Burrow, a number two recruit in the country
02:39would have had to request number nine to get recruited and to sign with LSU.
02:44There was a player that requested number five, and that may have been a big part of why he signed
02:51with LSU.
02:51From what we know, or from what you know, is there anybody that said,
02:55I want to wear number nine, or I'm not coming to LSU?
02:59In conversations with former LSU coach Brian Kelly yesterday,
03:06he said that the Burrow camp wasn't ready to allow anyone to wear number nine,
03:10so they didn't give out number nine.
03:12And he said that a promise was made to DJ Pickett during the recruitment
03:18that he could wear number five at LSU.
03:22And he said he didn't give it to him last year
03:25because Jaden Daniels wasn't ready to let anyone wear it.
03:29And then, obviously, Brian Kelly gets fired middle of season last year
03:33and Lane Kiffin takes over in January.
03:36And, you know, Kiffin told reporters last week that, hey, it really wasn't my decision.
03:41The kid was promised he could wear five.
03:43It's part of the reason he signed here.
03:46And so I let him wear it.
03:48But, you know, I don't know what's in Pickett's contract with LSU.
03:51I mean, this is the state of college football and college athletics.
03:56You know, someone told me that there's a clause in his contract that he can wear it.
03:59I haven't seen his contract.
04:01They told me there was monetary damages that LSU would have to pay
04:04if he didn't get to wear the jersey.
04:06I find that hard to believe.
04:07At the same time, it's such a crap show now that I believe anything.
04:13But it seems like they could just write a check to DJ Pickett
04:16and make this all go away,
04:17and they still have a good relationship with their third Heisman Trophy winner.
04:21Yes, there are three Heisman Trophy winners.
04:24Billy Cannon, who has the only jersey officially retired in LSU football history.
04:29Joe Burrow, who led LSU to an undefeated season
04:33and the greatest offensive season passing-wise in NCAA history
04:38as they won the national championship.
04:40And then, of course, Jaden Daniels.
04:42And to be fair, if he had even a bad defense mark
04:45instead of an absolutely horrific defense,
04:48they probably would have won the national championship
04:51because he was that good in college.
04:53All right, so I'm kind of viewing this,
04:56and maybe it's the wrong way to view it before I get to the opinion part of it.
05:00But there is a cease and desist letter, which you've read,
05:04I think everybody's read if you're following this story,
05:07that has and doesn't mention the jersey number at all.
05:12The jersey number as the backbone is the basis for them being emotionally profoundly disrespected,
05:20as they wrote, emotionally distraught over this,
05:23is about number five being given to this DJ Pickett.
05:27But as it relates to the cease and desist letter on ongoing NIL,
05:32is there an actual argument for players when they leave the school,
05:38they're in the NFL, that the school can't benefit from their name, image, and likeness,
05:44even though they won a Heisman Trophy wearing that school's uniform?
05:48Yeah, again, I have not seen what Jaden Daniels' contract with LSU looked like,
05:53according to his attorney in the cease and desist letter.
05:56LSU was permitted to use his name, image, and likeness for 180 days after his final game.
06:02Obviously, we're beyond that stretch.
06:06You know, legally, I don't know.
06:09Without seeing the contract, if you remember maybe a year ago, Kevin,
06:13the 1983 NC State cardiac PAC team tried to sue NC State and the NCAA
06:20for continuously using images of Lorenzo Charles Dunk and Jim Valvano running around
06:26and hugging players, saying they improperly used their NIL for the last 40 years or whatever.
06:31That case was thrown out of court.
06:33We've seen guys like Jamison Williams, the Detroit Lions receiver,
06:37and former Cowboys running back Ezekiel Elliott.
06:41They have ongoing federal lawsuits against their schools and conferences
06:47for not properly paying them when they paid for their NIL.
06:51So this one, I don't know.
06:53I mean, they're basically telling Daniels' camp is basically telling LSU,
06:57take my photos down in your football building.
06:59Don't use my image on your scoreboard during games.
07:02You know, I don't cover up my Heisman Trophy.
07:05I don't know if they went that far.
07:06But it's a mess for sure.
07:09Yeah, I mean, that's one of those things I can't believe that in the NIL contract,
07:14what did Jaden get paid?
07:15I'm just curious to leave Arizona State and play at LSU.
07:18Do you know?
07:19I don't.
07:20I would assume at least a million dollars would probably be the market.
07:24So it was the market back then.
07:27Imagine him today.
07:29But I just can't imagine that, you know,
07:33the school that's been around for more than 100 years
07:36and has had one of the most dominant football programs in America
07:39is going to seed, you know, a great player's history with that particular school
07:48back to the player after they've paid him.
07:52That one doesn't make sense to me.
07:54How can you not use, if you're LSU, you know,
07:58one of your three Heisman Trophy winners, one of you'd love him to be an ambassador
08:03for your school in recruiting?
08:06I mean, videos, film, everything about the school that gets presented
08:10to just normal students probably includes a Jaden Daniels highlight.
08:16Yeah.
08:17No, it's probably not the best contract it was written if it was only 180 days.
08:23But, look, these players, even, you know, high school recruits,
08:28have attorneys, they have agents.
08:30You know, I'm sure they're protecting their long-term NIL rights.
08:36It's very one-sided to players right now.
08:39Schools are desperate to get top talent and compete for hundreds of millions of dollars.
08:43I mean, it's the state of the game, and it's insane.
08:49All right, so it sounds like the cease and desist part, who knows?
08:54Maybe they actually have a case based on the contract that they had with the school.
08:58The other situation is what you learned and what you wrote about,
09:02which is really the basis for all of this is he's upset that they gave No. 5 out
09:08and Joe Burrow's No. 9 has continued to be protected.
09:12Does he have any sort of legal right to protect his No. 5 jersey
09:20and have it not be reassigned after he's no longer with the school?
09:27I don't – I'd find it hard to – I mean, there were hundreds of players
09:31who were No. 5 before he got there.
09:34I don't know.
09:35I mean, that's a great legal question.
09:36I'm sure if they can't come to some sort of a resolution,
09:39it's going to end up in court, but I don't know.
09:42I mean, the No. 5 jersey at LSU belongs to LSU.
09:49Of course it does.
09:50Can you imagine the precedent that would be set if somehow he was able,
09:56as a professional player, long removed from LSU,
10:00if he were the essential decision maker on how No. 5 got used,
10:06every player that ever played there – not every player,
10:09but a bunch of players would start to come out and try to protect their number.
10:12By the way, and you can appreciate this because you lived in the area for a while,
10:16but one of the big stories – I mean, not an on-the-field story,
10:20but a story that's generated some passion here over the last few days, Mark,
10:24has been that Stefan Diggs wants Joe Theismann,
10:29wants permission from Joe Theismann to wear No. 7.
10:33And, you know, I think the reaction is sort of split along generational lines.
10:39Like, for me, Joe's jersey is a protected jersey.
10:41It may be a jersey, no guarantee, but it could be a jersey that could be retired,
10:46and, you know, he should find another number.
10:49But here we are with this.
10:52It doesn't seem logical to me that a player could stop a university
11:00from using and reissuing his jersey number if it's not –
11:07I mean, you know, they've got to make the decision.
11:08It's their preservation of history responsibility, not his.
11:14Well, I mean, no.
11:16I mean, it's – I mean, it's – I don't – I can remember 2003,
11:25I did a recruiting story about a kid named Ernie Sims
11:29who ended up playing in the NFL for a while, linebacker out of Tallahassee, Florida.
11:33His last three schools were Auburn, Florida State, and Georgia.
11:37He wanted to wear No. 34, Bo Jackson's number,
11:42Herschel Walker's number, and Ron Sellers' number, Florida State.
11:45All three retired.
11:46Florida State buckled.
11:47Georgia and Auburn held their ground.
11:49I just can't believe that a jersey number, you know,
11:52means that much to some of these guys.
11:54I remember Syracuse talked about unretiring the No. 44 jersey,
11:58that Jim Brown and Ernie Davis and – yeah.
12:02I mean, it's insanity.
12:03But it's – I mean, we're going to get to the point here in the next 10 to 20 years
12:08where these guys aren't wearing numbers, they're wearing QR codes that, you know,
12:13then they can own those.
12:15Yeah.
12:16So, I mean, net this out for us.
12:19Where does it go next?
12:23You know, I would hope for both sides that they come to some sort of a resolution.
12:29You know, there are some guys who will never give blessing for somebody to wear their jersey.
12:36Matt Leiner, you know, said a couple years ago that they asked him several times to give up
12:41to let somebody wear No. 11.
12:43He said, I'm not going to do it.
12:45You know, I'm not going to give it to some random guy.
12:47He said he'll wear No. 11, and then in today's game he'll transfer after a year.
12:52So, I don't know.
12:53It just – it really seems like the Jaden Daniels camp has really dug its heels in
12:59and they're not going to back down from it.
13:01And, I mean, that's a shame because, you know, it's going to ruin a relationship
13:06with his alma mater and he's never going to come back to Tiger Stadium
13:09and be honored at halftime and those things.
13:11It just doesn't get worked out.
13:14Yeah.
13:15If Brian Kelly were still there, would this be – would we be talking about this at all?
13:22I mean, this is one of the rare occasions.
13:25Kevin, I'm not going to put this on Lane Kiffin.
13:28Okay.
13:29He inherited the mess.
13:30I think – I do think that Pickett probably was talking about going elsewhere
13:35if he couldn't wear it, and so he had to buckle.
13:39But, again, I don't know if it's in his contract.
13:41And, you know, legally they have to do it.
13:44His representation could be saying, hey, if you don't give him No. 5,
13:48you're in breach of our deal, and he's leaving.
13:51Which is – it's all – it's insane.
13:54It's insane.
13:55It's nuts.
13:56But it's great because it's the pettiness of college sports,
14:00and it's what makes it great and what makes it interesting.
14:03But this is – when I heard this yesterday, I was like, you have got to be kidding me.
14:07All right.
14:08I want to finish with this to really get your hunch.
14:11You may have a hunch.
14:12You may not.
14:12You may know the answer to this.
14:14You may not.
14:15But all of these statements about the Daniels family is deeply disappointed,
14:20feels profoundly disrespected by LSU's decision to give Jaden's number to another player,
14:26you know, all of that, you know, in your story comes from a Daniels spokesperson to ESPN.
14:36Do you feel like this is Jaden or the team around him?
14:44I haven't talked to Jaden, so I will leave it at that.
14:48Okay.
14:50Thank you for this, as always.
14:53An interesting story.
14:54Appreciate it.
14:55I'll talk to you soon.
14:55Maybe we can talk right before college football starts.
14:58Sounds good.
14:59Thanks, Kevin.
14:59Thanks for having me.
15:00Mark Schleba, everybody from ESPN.
15:03Thanks, Kevin.
